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fractdev-digest         Sunday, June 24 2001         Volume 01 : Number 041




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:59:52 -0600
From: Rich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DOS truecolor

In article <000d01c0bb0c$967dc380$[e-mail]>,
    "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>  writes:

> The 888 modes display the correct colors but much
> darker than they should be.

This sounds like the gamma correction was set incorrectly, making the
colors appear too dark even though the correct values are stored in
the frame buffer.
- --
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:17:40 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DOS truecolor

Tim,

> If you tell me what to look for, I can try on my machine.

I've modified the put pixel routine so I'd have to send you a patch first.
I plan to make some more modifications this week.  If I don't have it fixed
by the end of the week, I'll upload a temporary patch for you to look at.

I haven't looked at the get pixel routine, so solid guessing, etc. are
broken.  I will need to merge the truecolor routine with the standard
getpixel() routine to make it work.  This is because of the number of places
(files) where the getpixel() routine is used.

> Some possible sources of help
>  - compare with what Piclab, and see if Piclab has the same
> problem

I don't have it with me.  Maybe this weekend.

>  - we could probably contact Bert. Even though he has long since
> "retired" from fractint, it was never hard to get him working on the
> truecolor.

I'd like to hear what he is doing these days, but I don't think we need to
drag him into this just yet.

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:38:11 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: DOS truecolor update

It's been a while since any mention was made of progress with the DOS
truecolor patch.  There really is a good reason.  It works fine on one
machine, but not two others.  It looks like it is a problem with the
palette/dacbox because if I poke the appropriate values to the screen it
works fine.  Should be fixed soon.

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:15:03 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ATI All-in-Wonder

Tim,

I tried running Fractint on a machine using ATI's All-in-Wonder card this
morning.  No luck.  Fractint detects a VESA card, but the image is always
scrambled.  I've intentionally stayed away from the ATI cards since the Mach
8 because of their lousy drivers.  It appears they haven't gotten any
better.

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:59:00 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ATI All-in-Wonder

Jonathan wrote:

> I tried running Fractint on a machine using ATI's All-in-Wonder card this
> morning.  No luck.  Fractint detects a VESA card, but the image is always
> scrambled.  I've intentionally stayed away from the ATI cards since the Mach
> 8 because of their lousy drivers.  It appears they haven't gotten any
> better.

A few years ago, when I decided to join the "1600x1200" hardware
club, I tried a bunch of video boards. I ended up returning several
boards making liberal use of CompUSA's return policies. I felt a
littlke guilty about it, but in my defence it is impossible reading the
specs on the box to know what the VESA support is, and of
course the sales people are clueless. One of the boards I returned
was an ATI that had TV support (might have been called "All-in-
Wonder"). I ended up with a board with an Nvidia TNT chipset.

The problem is that VESA support these days is spotty because
so many people are running WIndows. The ATI board had fine
Windows driver support, but did not have a VESA 1600x1200
mode.

I have found boards with NVIDIA chipsets work well with Fractint.
My latest PC is an HP that comes with a board with the Nvidia
VANTA chipset. Works well.

Tim



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:23:01 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Xfractint patch

Tim,

I slipped a dif for Xfractint into the 20.1.08 patch.  It only affects
Xfractint files and has the added x.  With it, the Xfractint code will
compile and run.  Otherwise, it won't.  I still haven't updated the
Xfractint sources.

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:02:08 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint patch

> I slipped a dif for Xfractint into the 20.1.08 patch.  It only affects
> Xfractint files and has the added x.  With it, the Xfractint code will
> compile and run.

I'll try it. I've installed Mandrake 8.0.

Tim


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 08:35:33 +0000
From: "Thierry B." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Allegro & SVGAlib on Linux 86

Hello.

I have started a graphic project on my Linux box with the SVGAlib.
And, in parallel, i'm thinking about Fractint/Allegro/svgalib for
people who don't (or can't) run X11 on their box. May be also,
trying it on Freebsd ?

So my question is: what is the source kit adequat for this trial ?


- --
Thierry Boudet                             http://la.buvette.org/fractales/

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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:42:31 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Allegro & SVGAlib on Linux 86

Thierry,

> I have started a graphic project on my Linux box with the SVGAlib.
> And, in parallel, i'm thinking about Fractint/Allegro/svgalib for
> people who don't (or can't) run X11 on their box. May be also,
> trying it on Freebsd ?

> So my question is: what is the source kit adequat for this trial ?

I would start with the experimental code on the developer's web site.
www.fractint.org
We have a mechanism which should help with what you are doing.  Also,
Allegro is already partially incorporated.  The X11 code is supposed to
work, but I managed to break it somehow.

Jonathan




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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 20:52:15 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Float-only changes

Tim,

Do you have any recollection of places where you changed a fudged long
variable to a double variable in the float-only source?  The problem that
Jim Muth just found was caused by an incorrect conversion.

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 21:12:15 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Float-only changes

Jonathan asked:

> Do you have any recollection of places where you changed a fudged long
> variable to a double variable in the float-only source?  The problem that
> Jim Muth just found was caused by an incorrect conversion.

No, but if the problem is in the zoom box logic, I can look. It
wouldn't hurt to look in the Linux version for the same bug.

Tim


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:46:20 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Float-only changes

Tim,

> No, but if the problem is in the zoom box logic, I can look. It
> wouldn't hurt to look in the Linux version for the same bug.

I've already fixed it.  That's why I released patch 9.  I was just wondering
if you had any idea of other places this type of problem could occur.  I
don't really expect you to remember, however.  8-))

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:32:30 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Allegro experimental source

Has anybody made changes to the Allegro experimental source code so that if
I start making changes to it I should provide patches?  I am about to start
making changes which should only affect the Allegro driver portion.  OTOH, I
also need to fix some of the routines that handle putting messages on the
screen.

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 21:09:03 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Panning problem

Here is an interesting bug that Lee Skinner turned up.  If you pan the
following PAR up or down while it is still generating the first row, the
image starts drawing at the same x-coordinate (ie. the top line doesn't
start at zero).  The example Lee sent was an arbitrary precision image of
the mandelbrot set.  The problem occurs when the image has been either
rotated or skewed.  The default mandelbrot doesn't show the problem because
of the use of different routines (assembly).  Although another problem
manifests itself with the default mandelbrot's floating point routines.
But, that's another story.  Maybe later.

The use of orbitdelay and showdot are just for the purpose of slowing the
line draw down so it can be caught on the first line.  If anybody is
interested in tackling this one, let me know.

pan_test_03        { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 10
                     ;  Jonathan Osuch [e-mail]
                     ;  May 28, 2001 at 07:21:32
  reset=2001 type=mandel(fn||fn) function=sin/sqr passes=1 video=sf5
  center-mag=+0.01860785428705647/+0.01848578579958282/0.3334649/1/44.999
  params=0/0/0.5 float=y inside=0 sound=off orbitdelay=500 showdot=a/10
  }

Jonathan



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 06:45:32 -0400
From: Lee Skinner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Panning problem

>> Here is an interesting bug that Lee Skinner turned up.  If you pan the=

following PAR up or down while it is still generating the first row, the
image starts drawing at the same x-coordinate (ie. the top line doesn't
start at zero).  The example Lee sent was an arbitrary precision image of=

the mandelbrot set.  The problem occurs when the image has been either
rotated or skewed.  The default mandelbrot doesn't show the problem becau=
se
of the use of different routines (assembly).  Although another problem
manifests itself with the default mandelbrot's floating point routines.
But, that's another story.  Maybe later. <<

This problem is not limited to arbitrary precision Mandelbrots.  It also
occurs with any image of type formula, and probably others.

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Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 18:47:08 -0700
From: miT =- <[e-mail]>
Subject: C++ rewrite

I know this subject comes up every so often, but I'm interested in creating a
C++ rewrite of Fractint.  Is there a list dedicated to this task?  If not,
I'd like to put one together, since I'll be gearing up on this task before
too long.

Thanks,
Tim Gilman
[e-mail]

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Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 22:17:21 -0600
From: Rich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

In article <20010530184709-r01010600-f15e0888@10.7.1.10>,
    miT =- <[e-mail]>  writes:

> I know this subject comes up every so often, but I'm interested in creating a
> C++ rewrite of Fractint.  Is there a list dedicated to this task?  If not,
> I'd like to put one together, since I'll be gearing up on this task before
> too long.

Do you have any idea how big fractint really is?  The source code,
when printed on double-sided paper on a laser printer makes for a
stack of printouts 8 inches thick.

Why do you think its going to be an easy thing to rewrite it all in
C++?  If it were an easy thing to do, it would have been done already.

If you really have that much energy and enthusiasm for developing
fractint, I suggest that you join Jonathan Osuch in pushing the
'driver' interface forward.
- --
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Direct3D Book <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
         Home <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>
    Fractals! <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/fractals/>

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Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 21:09:45 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

Hi Tim,

> I know this subject comes up every so often, but I'm interested in creating a
> C++ rewrite of Fractint.  Is there a list dedicated to this task?  If not,
> I'd like to put one together, since I'll be gearing up on this task before
> too long.

Fractdev isn't very busy. Why don't you use that, at least at first? If
that is not adequate, or if the C++ traffic gets too great, we can
arrange another list for you.

I would very much like it if any Fractint port had an official open
source, free software license. I prefer GPL. That allows anyone to
do what they want with it, as long as they publish their changes
with any published binaries. Of course this would be up to you.

It would be hard for me to change the license of the existing
Fractint because we'd have to track down all the contributors. If you
are doing a C++ port, it's a great opportunity to create a new
license.

Tim


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Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:53:53 -0700
From: miT =- <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

Thanks Tim, I'll use this list for notes going forward.  GPL sounds great
to me, but I'm going to hold off making that decision until I understand
the full scope of the project.

=- Tim


> [e-mail] (Tim Wegner) wrote:
> (on 5/30/01 at 9:09 PM)

> Hi Tim,
>
> > I know this subject comes up every so often, but I'm interested in creating a
> > C++ rewrite of Fractint.  Is there a list dedicated to this task?  If not,
> > I'd like to put one together, since I'll be gearing up on this task before
> > too long.
>
> Fractdev isn't very busy. Why don't you use that, at least at first? If
> that is not adequate, or if the C++ traffic gets too great, we can
> arrange another list for you.
>
> I would very much like it if any Fractint port had an official open
> source, free software license. I prefer GPL. That allows anyone to
> do what they want with it, as long as they publish their changes
> with any published binaries. Of course this would be up to you.
>
> It would be hard for me to change the license of the existing
> Fractint because we'd have to track down all the contributors. If you
> are doing a C++ port, it's a great opportunity to create a new
> license.
>
> Tim

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Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:01:52 -0700
From: miT =- <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

Hey Rich,

> [e-mail] (Rich) wrote:
> (on 5/30/01 at 10:17 PM)
>
> Do you have any idea how big fractint really is?  The source code,
> when printed on double-sided paper on a laser printer makes for a
> stack of printouts 8 inches thick.

I think my copy turned out to be about 1.5, but then again, I did
four pages on a side.  :-7

> Why do you think its going to be an easy thing to rewrite it all in
> C++?  If it were an easy thing to do, it would have been done already.

Whoa!  I never said I thought it'd be easy.

> If you really have that much energy and enthusiasm for developing
> fractint, I suggest that you join Jonathan Osuch in pushing the
> 'driver' interface forward.

Thanks,
=- Tim

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Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:25:39 -0600
From: Rich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

In article <20010531180156-r01010600-6be0a08d@10.7.1.10>,
    miT =- <[e-mail]>  writes:

> I think my copy turned out to be about 1.5, but then again, I did
> four pages on a side.  :-7

OK, just so long as you know what you're in for -- its no small task,
but if you have the energy to do a complete rewrite (I trust you
really will go for a systematic overhaul rather than literally
rewriting every line), then more power to ya!

> > If you really have that much energy and enthusiasm for developing
> > fractint, I suggest that you join Jonathan Osuch in pushing the
> > 'driver' interface forward.

Please check the list archives to read the past discussions:
<ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractdev/archive/>

We've discussed the 'driver' interface that I created as a base to
migrate the code away from the DOS video assembly routines towards
something that could be shared by DOS, Win32, X11, Mac, etc.

Jonathan Osuch has taken that base and moved it forward with an
Allegro port.  The code is based on the xfractint source base since
that already had the appropriate #ifdef stuff for the old X11 port,
making it easier to start with for isolating the I/O from the engine.
- --
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Direct3D Book <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
         Home <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>
    Fractals! <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/fractals/>

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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 07:42:02 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

Tim Gilman,

> I know this subject comes up every so often, but I'm interested in
creating a
> C++ rewrite of Fractint.

Which compiler and platform were you considering using?

Jonathan



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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 07:39:16 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Panning problem

Tim,

> If you pan the
> following PAR up or down while it is still generating the first row, the
> image starts drawing at the same x-coordinate (ie. the top line doesn't
> start at zero).

This still works in version 19.61 patch 60, but is broken in version 20.0.
If you have the time, could you please find the patch between these two that
breaks this?  Thanks.

Jonathan



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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:51:51 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Panning problem

Tim,

It should break in version 19.61 patch 72.

Jonathan



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Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 13:23:05 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Panning problem

Jonathan wrote:

> This still works in version 19.61 patch 60, but is broken in version 20.0.
> If you have the time, could you please find the patch between these two that
> breaks this?  Thanks.

Will do, and it's a reminder to follow through and cut you a CD of all
the diffs and executables. I didn't do it before because I wanted to
do some cleanup first. I guess it would be better to cut a CD of
what I have, then if I get some cleanup done, so much the better.

Tim

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Date: Sun,  3 Jun 2001 11:34:25 -0700
From: miT =- <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

> [e-mail] (Jonathan Osuch) wrote:
> (on 6/3/01 at 7:42 AM)
> Tim Gilman,
>
> Which compiler and platform were you considering using?
>
> Jonathan

I'll be using OpenBSD 2.8 w/ gcc 2.95.3 as my development platform.
I'll test occassionally against linuxPCC_2000 and solaris 2.8.  I'll also
be building on MacOS 9.1 using CodeWarrior.  Hopefully this will insure
some degree of platform independence.

My target is to create a generic library that allows for platform specific
optimizations.  I'll try and keep the input/output interfaces generic
enough to allow easy migration to different platforms.

=- Tim Gilman
[e-mail]

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Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 16:40:53 -0600
From: Rich <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

In article <20010603113429-r01010600-cb12d1ec@10.7.1.10>,
    miT =- <[e-mail]>  writes:

> I'll be using OpenBSD 2.8 w/ gcc 2.95.3 as my development platform.
> I'll test occassionally against linuxPCC_2000 and solaris 2.8.  I'll also
> be building on MacOS 9.1 using CodeWarrior.  Hopefully this will insure
> some degree of platform independence.

DOS/Windows is conscpicuously absent from your list.  Its even more
conspicuous considering the heritage of fractint.

Please, please, please either get a copy of VC++ or find a partner who
will test your code on VC++; it has some things missing in its support
compared to gcc and vice-versa.
- --
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    Fractals! <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/fractals/>

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Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:10:45 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

Rich wrote:

> Please, please, please either get a copy of VC++ or find a partner who
> will test your code on VC++; it has some things missing in its support
> compared to gcc and vice-versa.

I realize I haven't done any development for a long time, so my
opinion doesn't count for much. :-)

If we wrote a GUI in WxWindows we could have a version that is
portable to Linux, Unix, Windows, and Mac.

If anyone is looking for (more) fame and fortune, there is a huge
gap in the Linux world for a decent fractal program. There are many
in the Windows world, some with a much stronger feature set than
Fractint.

I personally have little enthusiasm for a C++ port. To me the
biggest issue is moving the underlying program to a flat memory
model. This is the key to any port of Fractint. Xfractint in it's
present form doesn't count because it is just a port of Fractint's
code (segemented memory workarounds and all) to Linux/Unix.
But Tim Gilman has already proven he has ability to do Fractint
ports, and at this stage I see little reason to discourage any such
project.

There is at least one partial port to Windows by Paul de Leeuw.
This uses the native Windows 32 bit API.

Tim

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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 20:27:52 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: C++ rewrite

Tim wrote,

> If we wrote a GUI in WxWindows we could have a version that is
> portable to Linux, Unix, Windows, and Mac.

Since the Allegro graphics packages has been ported to these environments,
the same might be said for an Allegro version.

Jonathan



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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 20:29:06 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Panning problem

I've fixed the panning problem.  Because of the complexity of the worklist
code, this fix will need a lot of testing.

Jonathan



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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 21:08:54 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patch 11

Tim,

I've put patch 11 on the ftp site.  None of the executables have been
updated.  I should be able to get to update some of them Saturday morning.

Jonathan



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Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 04:40:33 -0500
From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: (fractint) Bug

Jonathan (and/or Tim),

I forwarded this message from the regular fractint mailing list to fracdev
mailing list.

I tried running xfractint in disk-video mode (similar to MB's complaint at
the bottom of his email), and xfractint bombs with a seg-fault in *any*
geometry size, as long as you use the "-disk" command-line switch.  Oh,
I observed this in v20.1.07 and v20.1.11

Scott Boyd

- ----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
Subject: (fractint) Bug
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 05:16:02 -0400
From: Multiple Bogeys <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]



Try this:

1. Display some fractal from a type that has parameters. Set passes=t.
2. Ctrl-E -- evolver/explorer. Turn it on. Use F6 and set two parameters
 to x and y respectively, leave the rest normal. Accept the F6 screen and
 change "show parameter zoom box" to "yes". 3. Page-up to get zoom box,
 move it with a ctrl-arrow, enter.
4. Space, turn off evolver/explorer, enter.
5. Observe something the manufacturer definitely didn't intend.
6. Hit 'b' to save parameters.
7. Observe something else the manufacturer didn't intend.

Type: bug
Reported-against: 20.01.10
Severity: low
Workaround: yes


Incidentally, the latest developer patches act weird when AF7 is bound to
 1024x768x256 disk-video. Hitting it produces an error message that seems
 to say something about not enough memory (on a 64 meg box!) after which
 it works anyway(!) -- this never occurred with 20.0 or 19.x.<br
 clear=all><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a
 href="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p>

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but I never got around to it.
                            -- Unknown



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Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:02:39 -0500
From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Colors not saved correctly in Xfractint .par files

Jonathan,

Using Xfractint 20.1.11, I was re-creating some fractals from .par files I
saved back in '99. I have discovered that if you re-write the .par file
using version 20.1.07 or better, the color info is not saved correctly. It
saves the color info as: "colors=000<254>000" instead of the long info.
This even happens if I use one of Jim Muth's FOTD par files, and then
re-save it using Xfractint 20.1.07 or 20.1.11. Then when you try to
re-create the fractal from the new .par file, all you get is a black
screen (nothing being drawn to the screen.) I imagine this has to do with
the true-color fix for Xfractint, but I have no idea how to go about
fixing it.

Scott Boyd
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[e-mail]
http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/
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but I never got around to it.
                            -- Unknown



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Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:19:12 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Colors not saved correctly in Xfractint .par files

Scott,

> Using Xfractint 20.1.11, I was re-creating some fractals from .par files I
> saved back in '99. I have discovered that if you re-write the .par file
> using version 20.1.07 or better, the color info is not saved correctly.

I'll have a look.  Thanks.

Jonathan



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Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:00:56 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) Subject line

Several loyal list members noticed that the [fractdev] was missing
from the subject line of messages posted here. Last time I sent a
majordomo config file, the subject_prefix command had wrapped
and was embedded in a comment. If you see it in this message, I
succeeded in fixing it.

Off topic: I just got back from Duluth, MN where I ran in Grandma's
marathon. If you go to:

http://www.onlineraceresults.com/results/results.cfm?EventID=3169

and type in wegner for the last name, you will find my results plus
those of a Carl Wegner who finished 10 minutes ahead of me,
despite being 60 years old :-)

Tim


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Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:48:48 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) Mandrake 8.0?

Tim,

How usable is Mandrake 8.0?

Jonathan



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Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:30:32 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Mandrake 8.0?

Jonathan asked:

> How usable is Mandrake 8.0?

I installed it a while ago, and have no complaints. I haven't used it a
lot though.

Tim

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End of fractdev-digest V1 #41
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