ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractdev/archive/v01.n030

Internet Message Format | 2000-04-08 | 40KB

From: [e-mail] (fractdev-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: fractdev-digest V1 #30
Reply-To: fractdev-digest
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


fractdev-digest        Saturday, April 8 2000        Volume 01 : Number 030




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:20:54 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files

Paul wrote:

> My name is Paul de Leeuw, the author of ManpWin. I am interested in =
> getting a definition for a fractal chunk in PNG and am interested in =
> getting comments on a definition I'm working on.

I have been corresponding for a while with Paul about his program
Manpwin. The time is right to work on the PNG chunk. I'm glad he's
pushing us to get this done :-)

The first job is to define the content. Then there are some technical
issues as to how the chunk should be put together. We don't need
to solve these first (the first job is just to decide what to put in), but
let me get them on the table so everyone is aware, even though the
first job is not the technicalities but the content.

1. PNG has a design philosophy not to use revision numbers. This
means that once a chunk is defined it doesn't change. If you need
something later, a new chunk is created. When fRAc was first
proposed, I discussed this with the PNG team. It isn't practical to
define everything we'll ever need for fractals up front, so I proposed
that the fRAc chunk be designed with "subchunks". Each one of
these would be permanent. That way we wouldn't litter the PNG
chunk  name space with multiple chunks, because all these would
be inside fRAc. This implies that we should identify reasonable
subchunks. The generalized center-mag coordinates would be an
example of something that deserves its own subchunk. We don't
have to do this just because it was the original idea, but it would be
very un-PNG-like to have a chunk with an internal revsion number
and a constantly increasing number of parameters, so we should
try to avoid this. I'll raise this on the PNG list and see if the years
of experience have altered thinking on this.

2. A huge problem with Fractint parameter storage in GIFs is that
we just wrote binary numbers to the GIF file. Anyone familiar with
Xfractint knows that Ken Shirriff had to write all kinds of byte-order
and IEEE floating point conversion routines to decode the fractint
binary numbers. For this reason values should be probably be
written in text. This also would allow seemless support for arbitrary
precision.

3. I do not favor just putting the old fractint parameters in fRAc.
There are some problems in the way we originally did things and
this is a good time to break with the past.

4. Let me point out that PNG does have a system for preserving
GIF extension blocks. I don't know if anyone uses this :-) This
might or might not be a good idea, but for starters we could use
this feature. The original intent was to allow a way to non-
destructively convert GIF to PNG without losing the extension
blocks. It also allows conversion software that doesn't know about
Fractint to convert PNG to GIF. The downside is that time has
gone by, and it might not be worth the trouble to mess with the GIF
extension block chunks. Once fRAc is defined, the conversion
program could convert straight to fRAc. This is another issue we
need to think about.

I have suggested to Paul that he use either a text comment chunk
or make his own Manpwin chunk for now.  You could do a lot
worse than put PAR files in a text block. Note that PNG has
mechanisms for compressed text chunks.

I'll look at this some more this weekend.

Tim


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:35:56 -0700
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files

In article <38D722D6.16261.24C10F@localhost>,
    Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>  writes:

> I have suggested to Paul that he use either a text comment chunk
> or make his own Manpwin chunk for now.  You could do a lot
> worse than put PAR files in a text block. Note that PNG has
> mechanisms for compressed text chunks.

My suggestion is this:

Include (as text, with an option for compression) everything needed to
regenerate the image:

    colormap
    formula definition
    L-system definition
    IFS definition
    parameter settings

One weakness of the previous method of storing information in the
image file was that if the image was generated from a formula, you had
to have the .frm file in order to zoom the image.

I know some artists have relied on this fact to "hide" their formulas
and keep them proprietary.  If that is desired, simply remove the
parameter chunk from the PNG file rather than store an incomplete or
brain-dead parameter block.
- --
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/who/>

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:34:05 +1100
From: "Paul de Leeuw" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files

Team,

I am currently using a tEXt chunk for ManpWin to store local versions of the
parameter file and it works fine. The real difficulty I am having is that
true colour images have 16.777 Million possibilities per pixel for 24 bit
colour. Reversable algorithms for determining the iteration count per pixel
is very difficult. Hence it is necessary to store 16 (or 32) bits per pixel
to enable regeneration of the iteration count matrix. This info needs to go
into a special chunk. See below.

Any comments appreciated,

Thanks,

Paul.

/***********************************************************************
FRACHUNK.H
Definition of all fractal data to be written to the fRAc chunk
Written by Paul de Leeuw 21/3/2000
***********************************************************************/

#ifndef FRACHUNK_H
#define FRACHUNK_H


struct fractal_info         // for saving data in PNG file
{
/*
This next pointer is to allow the iteration count for each pixel to be saved
for resumption
of the fractal. As there is no simple reverse method for calculating
iteration count from
true colour images, the lot needs to be saved. This is very large for a
standard 1024*768
screen will be 1.57 MBytes if ints are used or 3.15 MBytes if longs are
used. Hence
compression is needed for this data. HELP????????
*/
#ifdef ALLOW_32BIT_ITERATION
    long  *PixelData;
#else
    short *PixelData;
#endif

bla bla bla
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, 22 March 2000 04:35
Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files


>
> In article <38D722D6.16261.24C10F@localhost>,
>     Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>  writes:
>
> > I have suggested to Paul that he use either a text comment chunk
> > or make his own Manpwin chunk for now.  You could do a lot
> > worse than put PAR files in a text block. Note that PNG has
> > mechanisms for compressed text chunks.
>
> My suggestion is this:
>
> Include (as text, with an option for compression) everything needed to
> regenerate the image:
>
>     colormap
>     formula definition
>     L-system definition
>     IFS definition
>     parameter settings
>
> One weakness of the previous method of storing information in the
> image file was that if the image was generated from a formula, you had
> to have the .frm file in order to zoom the image.
>
> I know some artists have relied on this fact to "hide" their formulas
> and keep them proprietary.  If that is desired, simply remove the
> parameter chunk from the PNG file rather than store an incomplete or
> brain-dead parameter block.
> --
> <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/> Legalize Adulthood!
>     ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
>       at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
> [e-mail] <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/who/>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
> Post Message:   [e-mail]
> Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> Administrator:  [e-mail]
> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:15:53 -0700
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files

In article <002501bf93fa$fe27ee00$[e-mail]>,
    "Paul de Leeuw" <[e-mail]>  writes:

> struct fractal_info         // for saving data in PNG file
> {
> /*
> This next pointer is to allow the iteration count for each pixel to be saved
> for resumption
> of the fractal. As there is no simple reverse method for calculating
> iteration count from
> true colour images, the lot needs to be saved. This is very large for a
> standard 1024*768
> screen will be 1.57 MBytes if ints are used or 3.15 MBytes if longs are
> used. Hence
> compression is needed for this data. HELP????????
> */

You can store the iteration count per-pixel as a PNG image with
1-channel and 16-bits/channel for 16-bit iteration counts.

You can pack 32-bits/pixel if you store it as a 2-channel image
(grayscale w/alpha) and store the two 16-bit chunks of a 32-bit
quantity in the two channels.  Similarly for higher bits/pixel.

There is compressible coherency in the iteration count, so by storing
the iteration count as its own PNG image you reduce the disk storage
costs of the iteration count considerably.

However, this leads to two PNG streams: one for the color data and
another for the iteration count data.  Once the image is finished
rendering you can get rid of the iteration count data and just keep
the colors.  (It could be re-used on a zoom if you have a zooming
algorithm that exploits zoom-to-zoom coherency, but watch out for
aliasing; you'll have to do some manual infinite mipmap like tricks to
pull it off correctly.)

You can package the two PNG streams into a single file.  If you do
this, I'd suggest a raw concatenation of the two PNG images with the
color image first.  Then the two PNG streams can't be separated on the
hard drive and the image stream can always be read by PNG aware
clients.  I suppose you could even package up the second PNG stream as
an application specific data chunk inside the first stream, but that
seems more complicated.  I don't know how the png library or image
viewing programs deal with extraneous appended data to the PNG stream;
if lots of programs complain about this unexpected data, it might be
better to wrap the PNG iteration count 'image' inside one or more
application chunks.  (You may need more than one if you overflow the
valid size of a chunk, but I can't recall what that limit is right
now.)
- --
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/who/>

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:43:25 -0600
From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Xfractint menu questions

This message is directed to all the Xfractint users out there.

I am working on cleaning up the user interface of Xfractint so that the prompts
are more appropriate to Linux/Unix users. (Such as changing the function-key
prompts to Shift-n prompts. I have a couple of questions for other people
running Xfractint with Linux (or other Unix-based OS's):

1.Can anyone use the `Delete' key for the Main Menu selection: "select video
mode   <del>". In my case, `Delete' doesn't work. I have to press the `Enter'
key only when this menu item is highlighted. (I know we can't select a video
mode, but still I have to press `Enter' to draw the fractal.) If the delete key
works for you, please also let me know what OS you are using. (Linux, HP-UX,
Solaris, *BSD, etc.) I just want to make sure that this isn't happening only to
me because of some hidden, arcane setting in some keyboard-map file.

2. While going thru one of the source files that deals with the main menu, I
realized that everything below "restart Fractint  <ins>" is missing, such as
color-cycling, pallette editing, make starfield, etc. Is this common to all
Xfractint installations? I can remove a certain condition in the source file,
re-compile, and the menu items will show up. Color-cycling still won't work,
(when I press the C key, I get a beep) but the others will.

Please email me with your results. I realize that there may not be many
Xfractint users subscribed to the fractint-development mailing list, so I'm
also posting this to the regular fractint users mailing list. If you are
reading this on *that* list, please respond directly to me, so as not to
clutter up the regular fractint list with answers to a development question.

Thanks,
Scott D. Boyd
- --
email:  [e-mail]
http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/
Introducing Windows 2000 !! -- Now reduced to only 65,000 bugs !!



- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:21:25 -0600
From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Follow up to my prev. Xfractint questions

On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, I asked:
>
> 1.Can anyone use the `Delete' key for the Main Menu selection: "select video
> mode   <del>". In my case, `Delete' doesn't work. I have to press the `Enter'
> key only when this menu item is highlighted. (I know we can't select a video
> mode, but still I have to press `Enter' to draw the fractal.) If the delete key
> works for you, please also let me know what OS you are using. (Linux, HP-UX,
> Solaris, *BSD, etc.) I just want to make sure that this isn't happening only to
> me because of some hidden, arcane setting in some keyboard-map file.
>
I failed to mention that I can also press "D" for this menu item. But the
original question still stands: "Can anyone use the "Delete" key? (My "Insert"
key works, but not the "Delete" key.)

> 2. While going thru one of the source files that deals with the main menu, I
> realized that everything below "restart Fractint  <ins>" is missing, such as
> color-cycling, pallette editing, make starfield, etc. Is this common to all
> Xfractint installations? I can remove a certain condition in the source file,
> re-compile, and the menu items will show up. Color-cycling still won't work,
> (when I press the C key, I get a beep) but the others will.
>
I have discovered that I was having this problem because I wasn't using the
`-private' option when I start Xfractint. I was using `-fixcolors 256' instead.
So no need to answer question #2.

Thanks,
Scott D. Boyd
- --
email:  [e-mail]
http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/
Introducing Windows 2000 !! -- Now reduced to only 65,000 bugs !!

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:03:52 +1100
From: "Paul de Leeuw" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files

Phil,

I like the sound of this one. If I can get compression, it would be great. I
would insist that if it were to be saved as a PNG file that it would be
viewable by any standard PNG viewer.

Would the two images (real colours and iteration count per pixel) conflict?
How would I set this up (I am a bit new to PNG and have only used the
standard PNGLIB library functions)?

Any help gratefully appreciated.

Many thanks,

Paul.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, 23 March 2000 07:15
Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files


bla bla

>
> You can store the iteration count per-pixel as a PNG image with
> 1-channel and 16-bits/channel for 16-bit iteration counts.
>
> You can pack 32-bits/pixel if you store it as a 2-channel image
> (grayscale w/alpha) and store the two 16-bit chunks of a 32-bit
> quantity in the two channels.  Similarly for higher bits/pixel.

bla bla

> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
> Post Message:   [e-mail]
> Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> Administrator:  [e-mail]
> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
>


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:31:58 -0700
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Chunk fRAc for PNG files

In article <105201bf95dc$da936620$[e-mail]>,
    "Paul de Leeuw" <[e-mail]>  writes:

> I like the sound of this one. If I can get compression, it would be great. I
> would insist that if it were to be saved as a PNG file that it would be
> viewable by any standard PNG viewer.

Then you have two choices -- either embed the iteration counts inside
the PNG color image as an application-specific chunk that really
contains another PNG image (watch out for chunk size overflow); or
save two files: one for the color and another for the iteration count.
PNG applications are supposed to skip chunks they don't understand, so
a custom chunk shouldn't throw off a well written viewer or utility
program.

If you save two files, it has the advantage that someone can share
their partially computed with someone else without having to send all
the iteration count data as well.  Of course the other person can't
continue the calculation where the first person left off in that case.
If that is desired, they can simply send the two files and not just
the color image.

> Would the two images (real colours and iteration count per pixel) conflict?

I'm not sure what you're asking here?

> How would I set this up (I am a bit new to PNG and have only used the
> standard PNGLIB library functions)?

Probably the easiest thing to do while you're developing is to store
two files: one for the color image and another for the iteration count
data.  When storing the iteration count data (are you using 16-bit
iteration counts or 32?), you just extract the bytes from the
iteration count and "pretend" they are color channels.

For 16-bit iteration counts you can simply create a 16-bit grayscale
image file and you don't have to worry about the byte extraction.
That's probably the easiest to start with and 64K iterations is a
lot-- but I know how you fractal guys are, you always want more... like
me :-).
- --
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/who/>

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 23:26:49 -0600
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fractal Census 2000

Greetings,

It has been about two weeks since the request for the "Fractal Census"
was made, and still receiving an occasional email.  I have been
compiling this information into a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet, and was
only entering the basic stats that was requested.  But, decided to
expand with additional information (web sites, email addresses, physical
addresses, telephone numbers, birthdates, spouses and family members,
etc.).  It has gotten so large, that it now resembles a small database.

I have only taken six of the key fields:
      Names
      Various Products Used
      Qty.
      Best or Most Used
      Email Addresses
      Web Sites
to use in the creation of a web page:
      http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Fractal_Census.html

This is not the completed census data, which will take a few more hours
(or may be days) to finish.  But I thought I would publish what I have
gathered so for.  If someone finds the information for them inaccurate
or incomplete, then please reply to the following email address:

          MAILTO:[e-mail]


Sincerely,
P.N.L.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 06:41:47 -0400
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000

Hi Paul,

Please don't include my e-mail address on your census web page. Thanks.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/



- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:51:31 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Concatenated strings

Scott Boyd has submitted some Xfractint prompt cleanup of places where Xfractint is
reporting prompts that don't work in Xfractint. I am trying to simplify his suggestions,
which use  the XFRACT define whenever the Xfractint prompts are different from the
Fractint prompts.

I created a mechanism a long time ago for defines like

#ifndef XFRACT
#define UPARR "\x18"
#define DNARR "\x19"
#define RTARR "\x1A"
#define LTARR "\x1B"
#else
#define UPARR "K"
#define DNARR "J"
#define RTARR "L"
#define LTARR "H"
#endif

These were meant to be used like this:

static FCODE instr1[]  = {"Use " UPARR " and " DNARR " to select values to change"};

but are actually used like this:

#ifndef XFRACT
static FCODE instr1[]  = {"Use " UPARR " and " DNARR " to select values to change"};
#else
/* Some compilers don't accept "a" "b", so we have to fill in UPARR ourself.  */
static char far instr1[]  = {"Use up(K) and down(J) to select values to change"};
#endif


Note the comment. Do I still have to worry about compilers that don't support string
concatination like this:

printf("hello ""world\n");

The GCC compiler supports it. The reason I want to do this is that I am on a campaign
to eliminate the XFRACT define whenever possible.

Any ANSI-compatible compiler, including BSD and Linux GNU C compiler, should be
OK.

Tim








- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:05:20 -0400
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000

Hi List,

 - Please don't include my e-mail address on your census web page. Thanks.

Whoops. This was supposed to go to Paul. I'm not at all sure how it ended
up here! Sorry for the foul-up, folks.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 20:58:40 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000

Damien M. Jones wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,

Hey there...   :-)

>
> Please don't include my e-mail address
> on your census web page. Thanks.

No problem, I will have it removed the next time I update the data base,
and upload as soon as possible.

BTW, you might wish to tell Tim Wegner to do the same for this URL:
    http://www.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractint/archive/v01.n406
You are listed there at least three times.

Then there are the various other URL's around the world, such as the
following:
    http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~dzubera/2600faq.txt
which has a couple it it.

Sincerely,
P.N.L.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 21:13:03 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000

Paul wrote:

> BTW, you might wish to tell Tim Wegner to do the same for this URL:
>     http://www.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractint/archive/v01.n406
> You are listed there at least three times.

It's a side effect of majordomo lists that all email addresses are
exposed in the archive. If it's a problem I can probably turn off the
archiving feature.

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:10:12 -0400
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000

Tim,

 - It's a side effect of majordomo lists that all email addresses are
 - exposed in the archive. If it's a problem I can probably turn off the
 - archiving feature.

Well naturally I would prefer my e-mail address not be published in a
web-accessible version of the list.

Paul,

I'm well aware that my address shows up in lots of places on the web. The
2600 FAQ lists it for a rather interesting reason, I think. :-) Usually I
ask them all to be removed, just as I asked you. I've discovered that a
fair bit of spam comes from web site harvesting, so that's why I ask. I
doubt I'll eliminate all of it, but I sure cut out most of the spam sent to
[e-mail] when I removed it from the IFL pages. So, removing as
many as I can helps.

Now that I think about it, though, I don't recall submitting information to
your fractal census. Why am I listed at all? I never thought for a moment
you would personally identify all the participants, either. Certainly when
I think of "census" I don't think of "directory listing".

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 12:41:36 -0600
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Concatenated strings

In article <38E788A3.31071.3EB4F7@localhost>,
    Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>  writes:

> Note the comment. Do I still have to worry about compilers that
> don't support string concatination like this:
>
> printf("hello ""world\n");

No.  This has been standard in ANSI C and ANSI C++ for quite some
time.  Any compiler that doesn't support this is a very old compiler.
- --
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/who/>

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:46:33 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractal Census 2000

Damien wrote:

> Well naturally I would prefer my e-mail address not be published in a
> web-accessible version of the list.

I feel that way too. I am investigating whether this can be turned off
without turning off the digest. It might be a simple as changing read
permission on the archive directory. I'll do this if possible. I don't
see a way to do it in the majordomo config file.

Tim


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 20:13:54 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Concatenated strings

Rich wrote:

> No.  This has been standard in ANSI C and ANSI C++ for quite some
> time.  Any compiler that doesn't support this is a very old compiler.

I knew that, but I needed someone to give me permission :-)

This makes a much cleaner way to do the platform-specific user
interface via defines with strings like:

   "To get help press"FK_F1

Of course this will be moot when we do the GUI, but for now it is
useful.

If nobody complains, I will massage Scott's user interface changes
using defines and string concatenation.

Tim


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:51:39 -0500
From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Xfractint julia off by one

Tim,

I've fixed the off by one problem with Xfractint's julia type.  Now I have
two minor fixes.  I was thinking about starting to incorporate some of
Rich's file/routine reorganization.  The ones that don't break anything.

Jonathan



- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 21:58:13 -0500
From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Concatenated strings

On Mon, 03 Apr 2000, you wrote:

I have no complaints Tim, go ahead.

Scott


>    "To get help press"FK_F1
>
> Of course this will be moot when we do the GUI, but for now it is
> useful.
>
> If nobody complains, I will massage Scott's user interface changes
> using defines and string concatenation.
>
- --
email:  [e-mail]
http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/
Introducing Windows 2000 !! -- Reduced to only 65,000 bugs !!



- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:42:34 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Concatenated strings

I was about to upload patch 10 with my version of Scott's Xfractint
keystroke prompts, when I realized we have made  a big oversight.

On my Linux system, Xfractint uses all the Fractint keys, so all the
new prompts are wrong!!

Fortunately, the way I am doing this is via defines for the prompts
in fractint.h, so I just need to investigate where the keystroke
choice is selected, and then make the right set of defines to be
active in fractint.h.

I'm just alerting folks because so you know I am working on this. I
have also promised Paul de Leeuw that I'd look at the fRAc chunk.
So much to do, so little time :-)

Tim


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 15:39:04 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patch 10

I've put patch 10 at ftp.fractint.org.

The diff is:

ftp.fractint.org/2000p10.zip

I have also updated various other files for patch 10. I have punted
on the Xfractint prompts for now. Patch 10 implements the
alterntative prompts - e.g. shift-1 for F1, even though they may not
be needed. We need to make a define that allows the DOS
function key prompts to be used with Xfravtint if appropriate.

Thanks to Scott Boyd for helping with this patch. The xfractint
source files has been updated so you can try it.

Tim


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:22:32 -0500
From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Concatenated strings

Tim,

On Sat, 08 Apr 2000, you wrote:
> I was about to upload patch 10 with my version of Scott's Xfractint
> keystroke prompts, when I realized we have made  a big oversight.
>
> On my Linux system, Xfractint uses all the Fractint keys, so all the
> new prompts are wrong!!
>
That's really strange! Specially since you are running Redhat Linux, upon which
Linux-Mandrake is based. I thought that all the standard English-language PC
keyboards would use the Shift-F* prompts. Possibly a different keyboard-map
file?

> Fortunately, the way I am doing this is via defines for the prompts
> in fractint.h, so I just need to investigate where the keystroke
> choice is selected, and then make the right set of defines to be
> active in fractint.h.
>
I saw where the keystroke choice is selected while I was making the mods, but
now I don't remember which source file I saw it in. (Possibly fractint.c)

> So much to do, so little time :-)
>
I know that feeling!

Scott
- --
email:  [e-mail]
http://www.fastlane.net/~sdboyd/
Introducing Windows 2000 !! -- Reduced to only 65,000 bugs !!



- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 23:09:38 -0600
From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Concatenated strings

Scott wrote:

> That's really strange! Specially since you are running Redhat Linux, upon which
> Linux-Mandrake is based. I thought that all the standard English-language PC
> keyboards would use the Shift-F* prompts. Possibly a different keyboard-map
> file?

I just did a vanilla Mandrake install, so I'm not sure.

The shift-1 etc. keys still work, but so do the function keys, the
cursor keys, and the pageup etc. keys. However the "arrow"
characters aren't the same, so the character set is different from
the DOS character set, so some of the fractint.h defines still need
to be different from Linux.

I suggest you grab my patch 10 sources and look at the defines I
created in fractint.h (FK_F1 etc.). We will need to set up a system
to use the correct defines.

BTW  I saw a bug - when one cursor's around the fractal type list,
sometimes the type name is written too far to the right, I need to
look into this.

Tim




- --------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
Post Message:   [e-mail]
Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
Administrator:  [e-mail]
Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"

------------------------------

End of fractdev-digest V1 #30
*****************************