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fractdev-digest       Thursday, December 3 1998       Volume 01 : Number 013




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Aug 98 10:15:13 -0700
From: Tim Gilman <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) type-specific parameters question

>In the past, [e-mail]
>I went down that road, too ... and quickly determined that dynamic sizing
>was the only viable method for displaying all of those parameters. It does
>get easier once you've done it :)

Yeah, it only took about 15 minutes to get it right.  The thing is, I
feel really sorry for anyone whose got a small screen and 30 parameters
to display...  They won't be laughing when the screen dumps a dialog on
their lap!

Thanks again for the prodding, I would have wasted time trying _not_ to
get dynamic resizing right...

- -= tim


  "There is no truth, in which passing through awareness, does not lie.
   Yet we chase after it all the same."           - J. Lacan


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:18:04 -0600
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) a programming book of interest

Advanced Windows, Jeffrey Richter
<http://www.hamiltonbook.com/titles/5/0/1/501492.html>
$8.95 (retails for $45, includes CD-ROM)

I have a copy of this book and it is a good reference for learning
about the Win32 details of: memory management, process management,
device/file I/O, thread management, etc.  It notes the differences in
system support between Win NT and Win 95/98 (i.e. the security calls
are unimplemented on Win 95/98 but are described in full detail).

I'm not affiliated with Hamilton, except as a satisfied repeat
customer.  Hamilton sells remainder books at heavy discounts and only
charges $3 shipping per order, regardless of how many books you
order.
- --
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[e-mail]
``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,     <URL: http://
  at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT     www.eden.com/~thewho>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 16:32:19 -0800
From: Tim Gilman <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) timing issues with xfract

Stoners,

There's a couple of lines in unixscr.c, buried in the xgetkey function
that is causing me to ask a few questions.  Here's the what the snippet
looks like:

while (1) {

  [snip]

    // Don't check X events every time, since that is expensive
    skipcount++;
    if (block==0 && skipcount<25) break;
    skipcount = 0;

    ...etc
}

I'm curious to know how 25 was determined to be the above magic number.
Actually, I'm not too curious, but I'm wondering if someone out there
could lend a hand, and maybe an explanation as to what's happening at
this point.

I'm replacing the above logic with something more akin to checking the
time between successful event processing, say, maybe once every 30th of a
second (eventually to be replaced by a user preference).  Just bumping
the 25 to 250 gives me about that much in terms of performance gain (from
11 seconds for a 640x480 mandlebrot to about 1.2 seconds!).

If my investigations aren't flawed, this little xgetkey function actually
replaces/sits-on-top-of the DOS-version's direct-to-keyboard polling
routines.  Does anyone have any numbers on just how many times DOS
Fractint polls for keyboard input?  Instead of grafting code on top of
this polling routine, I'd like to look into moving the xgetkey code
higher up the stack, to eventually replace the keyboard polling stuff
with some code that fits better into the event-driven model.

I've only been playing with this piece of the pie for a few days, and I'd
like to get some feedback to prevent writing some mutant code.  Thanks!

=-Tim Gilman
[e-mail]
Visit the Mac-Fract porting pages...
http://www.scruz.net/~tgilman/tim/macfract

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:30:39 -0500
From: Jonathan Osuch <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) timing issues with xfract

Tim Gilman wrote:

>> If my investigations aren't flawed, this little xgetkey function
actually replaces/sits-on-top-of the DOS-version's direct-to-keyboard
polling routines.  Does anyone have any numbers on just how many times DO=
S
Fractint polls for keyboard input? <<

In the file CALCFRAC.C, in the routine StandardFractal(), there are the
lines:

   if (coloriter % 2048 =3D=3D 0)
      if (check_key())
         return (-1);

This determines how often the keyboard is checked.  Then check_key() (in
FRACTINT.C) calls getakey() (in GENERAL.C), which calls getkeyint() (in
GENERAL.C), which calls xgetkey().

I can't answer any of your questions specific to the xfractint code.

Jonathan

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:21:04 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractdev) timing issues with xfract

On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Tim Gilman wrote:
>     // Don't check X events every time, since that is expensive
>     skipcount++;
>     if (block==0 && skipcount<25) break;
>     skipcount = 0;
>
> I'm replacing the above logic with something more akin to checking the
> time between successful event processing, say, maybe once every 30th of a
> second (eventually to be replaced by a user preference).

Sounds good to me.  Every 10th of a second should still provide good
response; human interface studies show that under 200ms for a response
is indistinguishable from 0ms.  I think.  (Obviously this is not the
case for things like mouse drags.)

>  Just bumping
> the 25 to 250 gives me about that much in terms of performance gain (from
> 11 seconds for a 640x480 mandlebrot to about 1.2 seconds!).

Yowza!

> this polling routine, I'd like to look into moving the xgetkey code
> higher up the stack, to eventually replace the keyboard polling stuff
> with some code that fits better into the event-driven model.

How are you going to do 'event-driven' and 'background computation' at
the same time?

Kragen

- --
<[e-mail]>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
A well designed system must take people into account.  . . .  It's hard to
build a system that provides strong authentication on top of systems that
can be penetrated by knowing someone's mother's maiden name.  -- Schneier


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 11:11:34 -0800
From: Tim Gilman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) timing issues with xfract

>How are you going to do 'event-driven' and 'background computation' at
>the same time?
>
>Kragen

I've broken up the 'background computation' part such that I still get
events in a timely fashion.  Once I get enough of the port complete, I'll
try moving the event-loop from where it is now [buried deep in xgetkey()]
to someplace "higher up" in stack-space.  If thats possible, then I'll
move the 'background computation' part to a place that's driven by
idle-events.  I imagine there'll be some sort of user preference to
determine how often the fractal engine "breathes".

I won't actually be trying this for a few weeks, as I'm still kicking
around some windowing issues.

=-tim



  "There is no truth, in which passing through awareness, does not lie.
   Yet we chase after it all the same."           - J. Lacan


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:23:40 -0800
From: Darryl House <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) timing issues with xfract

In my implementation I took a simple approach to some of these things. I
allowed the user to select a refresh rate for the display, requested by some
folks who had networked machines and wanted to keep net traffic down ... see
the refresh_rate variable for more. Basically what I did was take the user
variable (from 1 to 100, selected from a scale widget) and used it to delay
the XPutImage call until sxdots / refresh_rate * sydots pixels have been put
to the canvas.

For polling the keyboard I used an approach very similar to Ken Shirriff's
where I let X's intrinsic keyboard polling routines consume as much time as
they need, noting the entry and exit times. Rather than threading the call
to the polling routine (that would have been the elegant solution), I simply
called the polling routine at logical points in the calculation process.




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:16:08 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) Welcome Humberto

Welcome to Humberto Baptista! I see you joined the list.

I haven't been able to run my version compiled with Borland 5
(complains about not enough memory) although I believe earlier
Borland compilers work. I'll have to reinstall my old Borland 3.1.
Microsoft C/C++ 7 works the best.

I will be uploading the developer's source for the DOS and Linux
versions of Fractint to my FTP site in a few days. No need to
check site, I'll alert folks first.

We may begin releasing some developer version executable to the
public, but we have to decide details first. We could discuss this
here if you like. One concern would be to include a readme stating
that the package could only be posted in a few designated places
(e.g. spanky). The reason for this is that developer's versions last
about a week typically (though we likely wouldn't release every tiny
change to the public) and we don't want Fractint put places where
it won't be updated.

Tim




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:08:31 -0200 (EDT)
From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Welcome Humberto

On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Tim Wegner wrote:

> Welcome to Humberto Baptista! I see you joined the list.

    Hello all in the list

> I haven't been able to run my version compiled with Borland 5
> (complains about not enough memory) although I believe earlier
> Borland compilers work. I'll have to reinstall my old Borland 3.1.
> Microsoft C/C++ 7 works the best.

    I'm compiling fine with BC 3.1 (or 3.0) although after some patching and
modifing I noticed that the arbitray precision code locks up the machine. I
guess it is some overlay pushed (or pulled) beyond som bounday. As I do not know
the overlay scheme used very well now I cannot say for sure.

> I will be uploading the developer's source for the DOS and Linux
> versions of Fractint to my FTP site in a few days. No need to
> check site, I'll alert folks first.

    OK, what would be best to post the patches or to send them directly to
[e-mail]?

> We may begin releasing some developer version executable to the
> public, but we have to decide details first. We could discuss this
> here if you like. One concern would be to include a readme stating

    Yes I would like to discuss it and my tow inital cents are: place it in
one or two sites (like spanky and some friendly mirros) and allow the
download via HTTP only. A prety clear statement that it is beta code would
surely be better understood if on the download page that in some README that is
not alway read.

> change to the public) and we don't want Fractint put places where
> it won't be updated.

    Agreed.

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

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Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:46 0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Welcome Humberto

Hi Tim & Humberto,

>We may begin releasing some developer version executable to the
>public, but we have to decide details first. We could discuss this
>here if you like.

I'm gane! How about tentatively suggesting a christmas or new year
rrelease for public beta code? seems like a handy date in the not too
near, not too distant future.


>One concern would be to include a readme stating
>that the package could only be posted in a few designated places
>(e.g. spanky).

I can host stuff at ukonline as usual for the european side of things.

Cheers,
         Robin.





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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:42:26 -0600
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Welcome Humberto

 - >One concern would be to include a readme stating
 - >that the package could only be posted in a few designated places
 - >(e.g. spanky).
 -
 - I can host stuff at ukonline as usual for the european side of things.

ftp.fractalus.com is also available, if you want me to include the files
there.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:31:21 -0200 (EDT)
From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) Idea of beta release date and way tomirror betas (was: RE: Welcome Humberto)

On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> I'm gane! How about tentatively suggesting a christmas or new year
> rrelease for public beta code? seems like a handy date in the not too
> near, not too distant future.

    That's a very nice idea, most of the usersI talk to are feeling
"abandoned" by the development of Fractint.

> I can host stuff at ukonline as usual for the european side of things.

    I can also host it here for Latin America/Brasil access.

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:35:33 -0200 (EDT)
From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

    Hi,

    As I'm new I would like to ask the list about what are the current
worklines (to avoid doing things twice and messing with others work).

    Other thing that I have been thinking for some time now. Should we think
of a 32 bit version of fractint?

    Yes i know lot of people like to use fractint on 16 bit machines, but
the root of fractint were speed, speed and speed :-) and although we have LOTS
of stuff there it still is _very_ fast. I keep wondering if the development wete
on a flat memory space and 32 bit mode things could go a lot faster and less
troublesome.

    Any ideas/experiences/thoughts?

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 98 12:03:03 -0800
From: Tim Gilman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

Hello there!

I'll pipe up and describe what I'm up to, as I'm sort of working in
isolation.  I'm working on a Mac port of Fractint.  It's coming together
slowly; I've got fractals drawing to the screen, most of the built-in
fractal types display correctly, zooming works, option-screens in the
form of dialogs, etc.  The biggies left for me are file-parsing (PARs
FRMs MAPs), palette editing, and general UI cleanup.  I'm currently
working on getting color-cycling to work in-a-window with monitor-depths
set to greater than 8 bit.

I say I'm working in isolation 'cause I've been mangling the xfract
source base to get most the scaffolding work done.  That, and I'm mostly
writing Mac-specific code which doesn't really affect the underlying
engine.  There's some places where I've had to do some minor surgery, but
merging those parts back into the xfract base won't be too much of a
chore (I'll eat those words!).

Future directions?  I vote for a cleaner layer of abstraction seperating
Fractint from platform/gui.  POV-Ray is my inspiration!

2 cents in the Soup,
Tim Gilman
[e-mail]
http://www.scruz.net/~tgilman/tim/macfract/


>    Hi,
>
>    As I'm new I would like to ask the list about what are the current
>worklines (to avoid doing things twice and messing with others work).
>
>    Other thing that I have been thinking for some time now. Should we think
>of a 32 bit version of fractint?
>
>    Yes i know lot of people like to use fractint on 16 bit machines, but
>the root of fractint were speed, speed and speed :-) and although we have
>LOTS
>of stuff there it still is _very_ fast. I keep wondering if the
>development wete
>on a flat memory space and 32 bit mode things could go a lot faster and less
>troublesome.
>
>    Any ideas/experiences/thoughts?
>
>    []'s
>
>    Humberto R. Baptista
>    [e-mail]
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:00:38 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Humberto Rossetti Baptista wrote:
>     Other thing that I have been thinking for some time now. Should we think
> of a 32 bit version of fractint?

xfractint is 32-bit on 32-bit machines, and 64-bit on 64-bit machines.

- --
<[e-mail]>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
It frightens the daylights out of me whenever I hear people proclaim that
the less knowledge our children have access to, the better.
- -- Duane Lindstrom, at <URL:http://www.examiner.com/skink/skinkmail.html>


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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:17:14 -0200 (EDT)
From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Kragen wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Humberto Rossetti Baptista wrote:
> >     Other thing that I have been thinking for some time now. Should we think
> > of a 32 bit version of fractint?
>
> xfractint is 32-bit on 32-bit machines, and 64-bit on 64-bit machines.

    I meant to have a common base on the DOS version that is 32 bit without
the memory constraints and optimized to take advantage of the operations in 32
bits. The source in the DOS version is somewhat far from this, but seeing the
work done on xfract maybe not so far.

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

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Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:35 0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

Hi Humberto,


>    As I'm new I would like to ask the list about what are the current
>worklines (to avoid doing things twice and messing with others work).

I'm currently puttng better sound support in, and generally fiddle about
with uncomplicated interface issues :-)

>    Other thing that I have been thinking for some time now. Should
>we think
>of a 32 bit version of fractint?

Definately, though first would come the interface/ calculation engine
abstraction.... in fact we should really be aiming for 'portable' rather
than '32 bit' IMHO
It would be really nice to adopt one of the open devlopment platforms
available these days.

.... not that I lay any claim to knowing how to go about it of course  :-)

>on a flat memory space and 32 bit mode things could go a lot faster
>and less
>troublesome.

Flat memory space would be soooooo nice!

Cheers,
         Robin





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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:31:24 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

Tim Gilman wrote:

> Future directions?  I vote for a cleaner layer of abstraction seperating
> Fractint from platform/gui.

You are welcome to propose changes. But it will be hard if you
have had to change the code to extensively. What made the
Xfractint port work was that much of  the code sources are exactly
shared. But I am not telling you that is what you should do
because you have different goals.

When we finally get people working seriously in 32 bit
environments the first order of business will be separating out the
platform sprecific code. Then the platform independent part of the
code could evolve faster because more people could contribute.

Tim


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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:31:24 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractdev) Welcome Humberto

Hi Robin! I see you have a new identity!

> I'm gane! How about tentatively suggesting a christmas or new year
> rrelease for public beta code? seems like a handy date in the not too
> near, not too distant future.

It just depends on the team being ready. But I have many fewer
reservations about publishing the public *source*, it is a bigger deal
to publisg the beta *executable*. I have had beta source at my FTP
site for a long time, but I hadn't kept it up because no one here in
fracvtdev asked for it.

> I can host stuff at ukonline as usual for the european side of things.

If we post a beta executable, I think spanky and your site would be
sufficient.

Tim


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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:31:24 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

>     As I'm new I would like to ask the list about what are the current
> worklines (to avoid doing things twice and messing with others work).

When you see the beta source you will see. Robin Bussell has
added an "evolver" feature that perturbs parameters as well as
sound (we need the sound ported to Linux!). George Martin has
been overhauling the parser. Chuck Ebbert has been speeding up
the parser. Jonathan Osuch has been facilitating all the above and
done more changes than I can remember. The "what's new" gives
the whole patch by patch history. I have added synchronous orbits,
but feel like it is fairly worthless unless ported to 32 bits. Which
brings us to ...

>     Other thing that I have been thinking for some time now. Should we think
> of a 32 bit version of fractint?

We've been *thinking* a whole lot. You need to understand that
some of the developers have intgense professional lives, and
speaking for myself, I'm not expanding my programming  skill at
work because I do mostly project management (seniority has its
pitfalls). I have few hours outside of work and a daunting learning
curve. There are dozens of routes to porting to 32 bits, we've
discussed them a lot. I'm tired of discussing it, because words are
cheap. What is needed are skilled people with the proper expertise
willing to put in several thousand hours, not people who write on
Robin's wish list "port to 32 bits please" <grin!>

I have bought Visual C/C++ 5 and Borland C++ Builder 3. But I
have a big learning curve ahead of me before I can be productive,
and limited outside of worktime. We could also port to djgpp. Any
approach we take will take a huge performance hit until we port at
least some of the assembler. But we could get something up and
running based on the Xfractint ciode, which I have been keeping up.
I also have been maintaing a version withg the integer math taken
out.

>> I keep wondering if the development wete
> on a flat memory space and 32 bit mode things could go a lot faster and less
> troublesome.

A flat memory model is an absolute necessity. But don't expect
speed at first.

Tim


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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:31:24 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

Kragen wrote:

> xfractint is 32-bit on 32-bit machines, and 64-bit on 64-bit machines.

Yes, but because Fractint and Xfractint share sources, Fractint
holds Xfractint back. Once Fractint itself is 32 bits, then we can
start taking advantage of it in both programs.

Tim


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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:31:24 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Welcome Humberto

Humberto asked:

> OK, what would be best to post the patches or to send
>them directly to
> [e-mail]?

I'd rather get them directly. But it would be better to wait until you
get the latest version which I will upload shortly (by Saturday). We
are up to 19.61 patch 58! I could probably merge your patches
relative to an older version but I'd much prefer if you are working off
the same version we are.

>     Yes I would like to discuss it and my tow inital cents are: place it in
> one or two sites (like spanky and some friendly mirros) and allow the
> download via HTTP only. A prety clear statement that it is beta code would
> surely be better understood if on the download page that in some README that is
> not alway read.

Good suggestion. Also, it is very good to hear from  you, it has
been a few years!

Tim




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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:46:37 +0100 (MET)
From: [e-mail] (F.J. Slijkerman)
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

Tim,

> I have bought Visual C/C++ 5 and Borland C++ Builder 3. But I
> have a big learning curve ahead of me before I can be productive,
> and limited outside of worktime.

Sorry for the intrusion, but maybe you'll appreciate some of my
thoughts about this. If you feel you have little time and lots of
work to do, I would recommend C++ Builder because it's much easier
to use than Visual C, and it's cheaper so more developers can buy
their copy (at least the Standard version!). I don't know about
its portability though.

If you are going to create a true 32-bit Windows version, you
more or less have to make the fractal engine an "object" so you
can create more than one instance of the engine. This is necessary
for MDI and probably multi-threading. Also, it helps a lot to keep
the code clean and easy to understand.

Since the current Fractint code is 16-bit and single-document-based
(iow: uses lots of global variables), I'd recommend you to dump it
(well, as a matter of speaking) and starting from scratch. You can
of course probably use large chunks of code from the old Fractint,
but you'll have to abandon the structure of the code, I think, and
use a modern object-oriented approach (which C++ Builder almost
demands).

It may seem silly or a waste of time to start again, but as a
project manager you will know that developing new projects from
scratch is much easier than poking around in old code and rewriting
it -- and in the end it takes much less time, too. Plus you have
the ability to separate the GUI code and the fractal engine.

Just my $0.02...

Best regards,
Frederik.

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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:21:30 -0200 (EDT)
From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Worklist and future directions

On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Tim Wegner wrote:

> When you see the beta source you will see. Robin Bussell has
> added an "evolver" feature that perturbs parameters as well as

    Great, if I it is what I imagine, one less item on my personal worklist
:-))))

> sound (we need the sound ported to Linux!). George Martin has

    Sound and linux, hm.

> been overhauling the parser. Chuck Ebbert has been speeding up
> the parser.

    Anybody thinking in extending the parser to deal with orbit-like
fractals? If not I'll get the hang of what's going on around the parser and will
do something on this direction soon.

> Jonathan Osuch has been facilitating all the above and
> done more changes than I can remember. The "what's new" gives
> the whole patch by patch history.

    My saturday seems SO far :-)))

> I have added synchronous orbits,

    ? What are these ?

> >     Other thing that I have been thinking for some time now. Should we think
> > of a 32 bit version of fractint?
>
> We've been *thinking* a whole lot. You need to understand that
> some of the developers have intgense professional lives, and

    I never underestimated this (I run a little consulting firm myself
working quite a lot, and unfortunatedly my development time is rather short
also). Please if i sounded like demanding it was due to my "not-so-good"
english. I love the work you've been doing in Fractint and do not want to see
such a nice thing interfere negatively with anybody's live.

> speaking for myself, I'm not expanding my programming  skill at
> work because I do mostly project management (seniority has its
> pitfalls).

    I bet you're not the only one :-)))

> I have few hours outside of work and a daunting learning
> curve. There are dozens of routes to porting to 32 bits, we've
> discussed them a lot. I'm tired of discussing it, because words are
> cheap.

    Sorry to have brought this again, as I'm a newbie to the dev I prefer to
be more annoying in the star to understand the work and the blend in without
getting us all to "old" and "worn" points.

> What is needed are skilled people with the proper expertise
> willing to put in several thousand hours, not people who write on
> Robin's wish list "port to 32 bits please" <grin!>

    Agreed, I may be able to find one or two good coders to help with this
(some students that have made arcade games both in DOS and Linux with gcc and
djgcc) Does the list have a archive that can be searched? Or better does anyone
have a list of the main dificulties involved on 32 bit ports or maybe a djgcc
port?

> I have bought Visual C/C++ 5 and Borland C++ Builder 3. But I
> have a big learning curve ahead of me before I can be productive,
> and limited outside of worktime.

    :-( Me too.

> We could also port to djgpp. Any
> approach we take will take a huge performance hit until we port at
> least some of the assembler.

    yes. I guess that will be the worst part.

> But we could get something up and
> running based on the Xfractint ciode, which I have been keeping up.

    Yes.

> >> I keep wondering if the development wete
> > on a flat memory space and 32 bit mode things could go a lot faster and less
> > troublesome.
>
> A flat memory model is an absolute necessity. But don't expect
> speed at first.

    Yes. I was thinking only in terms of facilitating other people to put
their peebles in the soup :-) That is why i like so much of the suggetion made
previously in the list to use opens source tools to the job.

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

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Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:25:28 -0200 (EDT)
From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Welcome Humberto

On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Tim Wegner wrote:

> I'd rather get them directly. But it would be better to wait until you
> get the latest version which I will upload shortly (by Saturday). We
> are up to 19.61 patch 58!

    No problem (just holding my anxiety :-))))))

> Good suggestion. Also, it is very good to hear from  you, it has
> been a few years!

    Glad you remembered. Ah, BTW I've been doing a kind of HOWTO to help me
to create new built in formulas and I hope to produce some other documents like
this, I know it is not the main trend with such a fast parser ;-> but we could
have a little library of short tutorials to help newcommers code in faster.

    I'll post it to the list sometime in these days (they're not long).

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

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Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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End of fractdev-digest V1 #13
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