ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractdev/archive/fractdev.200012

Internet Message Format | 2000-12-30 | 96KB

From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Proposal for restructuring of Xfractint's Makefile
Date: 01 Dec 2000 20:02:19 -0600

Scott,

> I was
> also thinking along the lines of having the Makefile that goes in the
> original source package reflect the changes I propose. In other words, I
> would be submitting the modified makefile to you for inclusion into the
> Xfractint source.

Hmm, your having said that reminds me that I've changed the Makefile I use
to compile the source in the current directory and put the executable there
as well.  That is also the Makefile that is in the developer's version of
the Xfractint source, since I have forgotten completely about replacing it
with the Makefile out of the last official release.  Oops!

>> Perhaps we would want to place the par, map, frm, etc files under here
>> also?
>
> My reply above about placing the binary under /home/user/ vs
> /opt/package-name also applies here. Of course, any of those files that a
> user creates could be placed under their home dir.

The problem is getting Xfractint to look in two different directories.  One
can be set in sstools.ini.  The other, at this time, would have to be hard
coded.  This may already be the case, since I mucked up my Makefile a long
time ago.

> And remember, my
> proposal is only to nudge Xfractint more in line with several standards
and
> the Linux/Unix community in general, and so new users wouldn't have to
tweak
> the Makefile or move files around after it's compiled/instaled.

I'm all for that.  Give some thought to Makefile settings for developer's
and perhaps to a system administrator.  For example, I always work with
everything in the same directory.  I may need to be retrained.  8-))

Jonathan



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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractint and Windows ME
Date: 01 Dec 2000 19:37:52 -0600

Morgan,

> makefcfg doesn't know what to do
> with my NVidia RIVA TNT, but that's okay, the default .cfg works fine
> up to the card's maximum 1600x1200 res.

That's interesting!  I've never gotten NT to work at a resolution higher
than 640x480.  And the setup I have available at work (an ati card) doesn't
even do that.

Jonathan



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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another video hotkey bug
Date: 01 Dec 2000 19:34:45 -0600

Puskßs,

> I found another bug in the video mode hotkey assignments. I have some
> 'windowed' entries in the FRACTINT.CFG file, which didn't fit into the old
> (removed) width = height = 160.. 2048 limitation. They work without
problems
> but they can't be assigned to a hotkey and if they are already assigned
> (with a text editor) they can't be unassigned. I tried it with several
> entries and it seems that it has to do with the old size limits.

Did you get this straightened out?  If not, can  you explain what you may be
doing differently than I am?

Jonathan



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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fractint bugs of the month
Date: 01 Dec 2000 19:31:54 -0600

I have a fix for the bug with type=circle and inside=startrail.  Bit of a
brut force solution.  If type=circle and inside is set to startrail, it is
now reset to 0.

I finally remembered to add my fix for Xfractint that corrects a problem
with the cellular type.  If you used the space bar with cellular you'd get a
segmentation fault.

While I was mucking about with Xfractint this week I noticed that trying to
use the <2> screen (or <@>) results in a segmentation fault.  This is one of
those problems I have fixed in my Allegro port.  I'll try to remember to
look at what I did.

Jonathan



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From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Proposal for restructuring of Xfractint's Makefile
Date: 02 Dec 2000 02:52:41 -0600

On Friday 01 December 2000 20:02, you wrote:
>
> Hmm, your having said that reminds me that I've changed the Makefile I use
> to compile the source in the current directory and put the executable there
> as well.  That is also the Makefile that is in the developer's version of
> the Xfractint source, since I have forgotten completely about replacing it
> with the Makefile out of the last official release.  Oops!
>
I looked at the Makefile in some old Xfractint source packages. In the oldest
one I had (20.0.8): SRCDIR=/usr/src/xfractint. I see where you changed that
to SRCDIR=. in version 20.1.03. Did you realize that some versions didn't
even contain a Makefile? It was missing from at least 20.0.15 and 20.1.0,
maybe more.
>
> The problem is getting Xfractint to look in two different directories.  One
> can be set in sstools.ini.  The other, at this time, would have to be hard
> coded.  This may already be the case, since I mucked up my Makefile a long
> time ago.
>
The Makefile just uses SRCDIR variable for installing the files, so I would
hazard a guess that the directory to search thru is hard-coded somewhere in
the source code. (I haven't looked at the souce code in earnest in a long
time...) But I'll look into that.

>
> I'm all for that.  Give some thought to Makefile settings for developer's
> and perhaps to a system administrator.
Will do!

Scott
--
[e-mail]
http://home.swbell.net/sdboyd56/

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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Proposal for restructuring of Xfractint's Makefile
Date: 02 Dec 2000 06:46:46 -0600

Scott,

> I looked at the Makefile in some old Xfractint source packages. In the
oldest
> one I had (20.0.8): SRCDIR=/usr/src/xfractint. I see where you changed
that
> to SRCDIR=. in version 20.1.03. Did you realize that some versions didn't
> even contain a Makefile? It was missing from at least 20.0.15 and 20.1.0,
> maybe more.

That would be my doing, also.  I need to work on automating the process of
zipping up the source files.

Jonathan



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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Formula parser
Date: 02 Dec 2000 11:17:53 -0600

Jonathan wrote:

> I tried to compile/assemble the compiler version of the formula parser and
> it will no longer assemble.  The ALTER_RET_ADDR macro in parsera.asm tries
> to push the address of past_loop, which isn't defined anywhere.

When I first read this note last week, I had misunderstood what
you were talking about. Now I see. You are referring to the define
that changes the formula parser to self-modifying code. For those
that don't know, the virtuoso Intel assembler programmer Chuck
Ebbert placed some defines in the fractint formular parser code that
essentially "compiles" the formula code in a buffer. This increases
the speed even more. When you run a formula, Fractint just
executes the code in the buffer.

There are lots of reasons we never used this code.

1. Chuck is the only one who understands it.
2. The code is dangerous since there are not good protections
against the compiled code overflowing the buffer.
3. If memory serves, it was not that much faster than the regular
assembler parser anyway.

I believe Chuck himself was of the opinion that this was not a good
idea. As far as I am concerned, we can edit out any compiler-
specific code. The parser assembler (non-compiler version) has a
very limited future anyway. It is possible we could port the
assembler to Linux assembler (I am not opposed to this though
last time "assembler" and "Linux" were mentioned in the same
breath here, we got howls of protest :-), but if we don't port the
code, it does not have a future.

Tim


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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Updated float only and xfractint
Date: 02 Dec 2000 11:17:53 -0600

A week ago Jonathan wrote:

> We need to think about how we want to archive these sources.
> Either put
> them in subdirectories of /ftp (public) or put them under /fractint
> (private).  My preference would be for putting them under /fractint to keep
> them private, but I don't have any good reason to do it that way.

I just downloaded everything at the web site. The files directory is
getting very cluttered, I think I'll move the old stuff to a subdirectory
to make it easier to find the current files.

As far as the experimental code is concerned, given the much
lower profile of our project, I see little or no reason to keep even
very rough sources private as long as they are well marked. I know
you have expressed the preference to keep them private, which is
OK with me. However if you change your mind, we could make
another subdirectory for experimental stuff.

You may be taking the brunt of maintenance requests these days.
If this is a problem for you, this is the one reason I see for keeping
the code private (to prevent getting maintenance queries about the
code). Otherwise, public is better, you never know when some
curious but shy soul who could help might download it and
contribute, though they might never ask for it. And with busy
people like Rich, he needs to be able to get his hands on it while
he's thinking about it :-)

Since you are doing the lion's share of the work these days, this is
your call.

Tim


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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Updated float only and xfractint
Date: 02 Dec 2000 13:15:16 -0600

Tim,

> As far as the experimental code is concerned, given the much
> lower profile of our project, I see little or no reason to keep even
> very rough sources private as long as they are well marked. I know
> you have expressed the preference to keep them private, which is
> OK with me. However if you change your mind, we could make
> another subdirectory for experimental stuff.

Okay.  I need to zip the latest Allegro source and then upload it.
Complaints about not being able to save truecolor images will fall on very
deaf ears.

> You may be taking the brunt of maintenance requests these days.
> If this is a problem for you, this is the one reason I see for keeping
> the code private (to prevent getting maintenance queries about the
> code).

The major problem I have is trying to keep four code bases synched.  And,
there is a fifth that should be kept up to date (the Xfractint float only).

I recall Robin saying he had an addition that needed to go into Xfractint,
but wouldn't work with Fractint.

> Since you are doing the lion's share of the work these days, this is
> your call.

Let's try it.

Jonathan



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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Formula parser
Date: 02 Dec 2000 13:21:22 -0600

Tim,

> The parser assembler (non-compiler version) has a
> very limited future anyway. It is possible we could port the
> assembler to Linux assembler (I am not opposed to this though
> last time "assembler" and "Linux" were mentioned in the same
> breath here, we got howls of protest :-), but if we don't port the
> code, it does not have a future.

True, but we could use the ideas in it to 'optimize' the C code.

Jonathan



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From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Error mesg while saving image in Xfractint
Date: 02 Dec 2000 15:20:57 -0600

Jonathan,

While playing around with Xfractint 20.1.03 to see where gif and par files
get saved, I got this error message when I pressed 's' to save image to file:

Saving to:
test04.gif
               Warning: loadfile miscount on fractal_info structure.

Components add up to 502 bytes, but FRACTAL_INFO_SIZE = 504
Saving done

It still saved it though. I thought it *may* be due to the fact I was running
it under X in 24-bit color. So I tried running Xfractint from the command
line with -disk mode, and got the same error message, yet the fractal image
came out fine.

Scott Boyd
--
[e-mail]
http://home.swbell.net/sdboyd56/
A computer without a Microsoft operating system
is like a dog without bricks tied to it's head.

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From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Updated float only and xfractint
Date: 02 Dec 2000 14:44:45 -0700


In article <002401c05c95$27b91f60$0100a8c0@bananasenior>,
    "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>  writes:

> The major problem I have is trying to keep four code bases synched.  And,
> there is a fifth that should be kept up to date (the Xfractint float only).

Sounds like its time to integrate CVS in there somewhere.  It can
make tracking these things easier.
--
Ask me about my upcoming book on Direct3D from Addison-Wesley!
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/who/>

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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Error mesg while saving image in Xfractint
Date: 02 Dec 2000 16:10:22 -0600

Scott,

> While playing around with Xfractint 20.1.03 to see where gif and par files
> get saved, I got this error message when I pressed 's' to save image to
file:

Yes, that's because there are some differences in how Xfractint handles gif
files.  They are hard coded.  I'll fix it.

Jonathan



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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 02 Dec 2000 17:01:02 -0600

Ok, I reorganized the website "ftp" directory. (Really an html
directory, since anonymous ftp is not allowed.)

You will see that there is an "unstable" directory for your weird
stuff, assuming you have anything that qualifies. :-) Let me know if
any problems, or if anything needs to be changed.

See also how the web page refers to the directories.

Tim


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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 02 Dec 2000 20:42:36 -0600

Tim,

The web page doesn't work.  The directories don't have the correct
permissions set.  I tried to set them, but couldn't.  Damien must have to do
it.

Jonathan




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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 02 Dec 2000 20:58:07 -0600


> The web page doesn't work.  The directories don't have the correct
> permissions set.  I tried to set them, but couldn't.  Damien must have to do
> it.

No, I did a chmod with the wrong value. It should be OK now.

Tim


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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 02 Dec 2000 21:13:46 -0600

> It should be OK now.

Yes, it is.  One other thing, the whatsnew.txt file needs to be updated and
its permissions need to be changed.

Jonathan



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From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 02 Dec 2000 21:09:37 -0600

On Saturday 02 December 2000 20:42, Jonathan wrote:
> Tim,
>
> The web page doesn't work.  The directories don't have the correct
> permissions set.  I tried to set them, but couldn't.  Damien must have to
> do it.
>
> Jonathan
>
It's working OK for me at 9:05pm CST. I was even able to type in the URL for
the `unstable' directory and viewed the directory contents.

Scott
--
[e-mail]
http://home.swbell.net/sdboyd56/

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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 02 Dec 2000 22:00:31 -0600


> Yes, it is.  One other thing, the whatsnew.txt file needs to be updated and
> its permissions need to be changed.

I fixed the permissions of whatsnew.txt but haven't updated it.

Tim


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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 02 Dec 2000 22:44:20 -0600

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> See also how the web page refers to the directories.

You really have to know of the existence of the unstable stuff.  The web
page doesn't mention or link to the directory.

Jonathan



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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 02 Dec 2000 22:44:20 -0600

Jonathan, if you'd like a link to the u_n_s_t_a_b_l_e stuff on the
web page I can add it. I just thought no point in advertising it. It is
easy enough to find. On the other hand, if I mentioned it, I could
explain what it is.

BTW majordomo doesn't like the word "u_n_s_t_a_b_l_e". If it sees
u_n_s* it thinks you are u_n_s_ubscribing and bounces the
message.  As you see, it can be easily defeated, and you can use
forbidden words in messages :-)

Tim


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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 03 Dec 2000 07:39:34 -0600

Tim,

> Jonathan, if you'd like a link to the u_n_s_t_a_b_l_e stuff on the
> web page I can add it. I just thought no point in advertising it. It is
> easy enough to find. On the other hand, if I mentioned it, I could
> explain what it is.

We should probably change its name, considering how much trouble it will be
to use it in messages.  Perhaps "veryunstable"?  Assuming that majordomo is
looking at the first few letters of a word.

It may be appropriate to have separate directories for the DOS and Linux
sources/executables.  I am going to start including more files in the
development executable to cut down on the complaints about not being able to
find fractint.cfg.

I am also thinking about going back to the stable version 3.12 version of
Allegro.  Since it is still available and the WIP version I started with
isn't.

I'll put a partial dif of patch 4 in the fractint directory since I don't
think I'll have a chance to get it ready for release this morning.  It
should be ready next Friday evening.

I'm also considering bringing the Xfractint float only code up to the latest
patch.

It could be a very busy week.

Jonathan



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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 03 Dec 2000 09:39:50 -0600

Jonathan wrote:

> We should probably change its name, considering how much trouble it will be
> to use it in messages.  Perhaps "veryunstable"?  Assuming that majordomo is
> looking at the first few letters of a word.

A very sane suggestion :-) OK, I'll come up with something.

> It may be appropriate to have separate directories for the DOS and Linux
> sources/executables.  I am going to start including more files in the
> development executable to cut down on the complaints about not being able to
> find fractint.cfg.

OK, I'll do this too. Perhaps we need to make a shared
subdirectory structure under current,  veryunstable (or whatever),
and release.

Tim


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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 03 Dec 2000 11:29:20 -0600


> We should probably change its name, considering how much trouble it will be
> to use it in messages.  Perhaps "veryunstable"?

I changed it to experimental. Do you want a mention on the web
page?

> It may be appropriate to have separate directories for the DOS and Linux
> sources/executables.

Done. Feel free to change what I did or ask me to. If any problems,
let me know.

Perhaps more than one patch file should be included under
"current", but what I have now will work.

I moved some of Robin's old html files into a private subdirectory
where he can get them.

Tim




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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "ftp" site reorganized
Date: 03 Dec 2000 12:53:25 -0600

> I changed it to experimental. Do you want a mention on the web
> page?

Yes.

> Done. Feel free to change what I did or ask me to. If any problems,
> let me know.

It looks good.  Separating the old files would probably be good, also.

> Perhaps more than one patch file should be included under
> "current", but what I have now will work.

Yes.  Also, it might be useful to add the release number to the release
directory.

Jonathan



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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Uploading to ftp site
Date: 08 Dec 2000 19:40:51 -0600

Tim,

I am unable to upload to /ftp/current/dos.  So I put patch 4 and its
executables in /ftp/current.  The permissions are the same for the two
directories but I still got a permission error when trying to upload to the
dos directory.

Jonathan



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From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Xfractint man page updates
Date: 08 Dec 2000 22:48:45 -0600

Jonathan,

I will be working on updating Xfractint's man page within the next 24 hrs. I
need some advise about how to write the last part of it.

Currently it says:
Xfractint was updated to Fractint 19.5 by Tim Wegner ([e-mail])
under Linux 2.0. Please report updates for other platforms to Tim Wegner.
The primary authors of Fractint 19.5 are:
Bert Tyler       [73477,433] (CompuServe) [e-mail]
Timothy Wegner   [71320,675]  [e-mail]
Jonathan Osuch   [73277,1432]  [e-mail]
Wesley Loewer   [e-mail]

As you can see, it says version 19.5. How should I word the first line to
properly give credit for the current ver? What is the current version of
Xfractint? (There is no "official release" in the ftp/release20.0/linux
directory.) What about the primary authors of ver. 20.0? (The last current
release?) Since this man page only works with Xfractint, should I use a
different version number in the manpage credits?  Who should now get report
updates for other platforms?

I'm so confused!!  8-)

Scott Boyd

P.S.  I just noticed something... You were right - The manpage is *way* out
of date!  re: The last copyright year is 1997, and some email addresses are
no longer valid.....

--
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A computer without a Microsoft operating system
is like a dog without bricks tied to it's head.

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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Use of relative paths
Date: 09 Dec 2000 07:11:07 -0600

Tim,

If you use the current directory to set up the path to files and provide a
file name at the same time, Fractint appends fractint.xxx to it and then
can't find the correct file (duh!).

For example:
formulafile=./frm/fract200.frm

will give you a complete path of:

c:\fractint\mem\frm\fract200.frm\fractint.frm

Which, of course, doesn't work.

This looks like a problem with splitpath() as it is used in
merge_pathnames() in PROMPTS2.C.  I don't see how it occurs, yet.

Jonathan



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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint man page updates
Date: 09 Dec 2000 06:57:23 -0600

Scott,

> Xfractint was updated to Fractint 19.5 by Tim Wegner ([e-mail])
> under Linux 2.0. Please report updates for other platforms to Tim Wegner.
> The primary authors of Fractint 19.5 are:
> Bert Tyler       [73477,433] (CompuServe) [e-mail]
> Timothy Wegner   [71320,675]  [e-mail]
> Jonathan Osuch   [73277,1432]  [e-mail]
> Wesley Loewer   [e-mail]

Are you distributing the patched developer's version or the last "official"
release?  The last "official" release was done by Tim, the last developer's
version by myself.  You can use the list of primary authors that is in
help5.src.  The email addresses should be correct.

> (There is no "official release" in the ftp/release20.0/linux directory.)
> Since this man page only works with Xfractint, should I use a
> different version number in the manpage credits?

I'll fix that.  The last official release was 3.10, but since then we have
switched the numbering scheme to match that of Fractint.  So it is now
appropriate to use the Fractint version number.

> Who should now get report updates for other platforms?

I'd like to leave that in Tim's capable hands.  8-))

Jonathan



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From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint man page updates
Date: 09 Dec 2000 11:15:33 -0600

On Saturday 09 December 2000 06:57, you wrote:

> Are you distributing the patched developer's version or the last "official"
> release?  The last "official" release was done by Tim, the last developer's
> version by myself.

I am making the changes in Xfractint 20.1.03 - in conjunction with the
changes I had proposed a couple of weeks ago. I am not distributing the
changes, rather they will be submitted to you for your approval, along with
an explanation of changes.

Scott
--
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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint man page updates
Date: 09 Dec 2000 11:30:35 -0600

Scott,

> I am making the changes in Xfractint 20.1.03 - in conjunction with the
> changes I had proposed a couple of weeks ago. I am not distributing the
> changes, rather they will be submitted to you for your approval, along with
> an explanation of changes.

I'd be happy to check over any proposed patch to Xfractint.
(Jonathan could too, but because he's carrying most of the load I
probably should.) I'd like to see the changes as a context diff (diff -
c old new) against a published version (Xfractint 20.1.03).

Tim


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From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint man page updates
Date: 09 Dec 2000 11:59:25 -0600

Tim,

On Saturday 09 December 2000 11:30, you wrote:
>
> I'd be happy to check over any proposed patch to Xfractint.
> (Jonathan could too, but because he's carrying most of the load I
> probably should.) I'd like to see the changes as a context diff (diff -
> c old new) against a published version (Xfractint 20.1.03).
>
OK, no problem. I'll send the diff to you. (I thought you weren't involved in
Xfractint at the present time. That's why I had said I'd send it to Jonathan.)

Did you follow the "Proposal for restructuring of Xfractint's Makefile"
thread that I began on the fractdev mailing list back on Nov.26th?

Scott
--
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http://home.swbell.net/sdboyd56/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint man page updates
Date: 09 Dec 2000 13:00:59 -0600

Scott wrote:

> OK, no problem. I'll send the diff to you. (I thought you weren't involved in
> Xfractint at the present time. That's why I had said I'd send it to Jonathan.)

I've been very inactive for a while, so it's not surprising you had that
impression. Jonathan and I have never really had a division of
responsibility, though, so if either of us decides to take the time,
either of us could integrate your changes. I must say, though, that
inactivity takes its toll and Jonathan is much more up on fractint
than I am.

Tim

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From: [e-mail]
Date: 09 Dec 2000 17:13:25 -0700

Date sent:          Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:16:48 -0700
    ["=?iso-8859-2?B?UHVza+FzIElzdHbhbiBqci4=?=" <[e-mail]>]
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From [e-mail] Sat Dec 09 15:16:46 2000
Received: from [195.228.240.10] (helo=matavnet.hu)
    by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2)
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I have seen a strange behaviour with changed bailout test.

is_this_good_so?   {
                     ;  Version 2001 Patchlevel 3
  reset=2001 type=mandel center-mag=-0.605126/0.0379856/0.6866836
  params=0/0 float=y maxiter=255 bailoutest=real inside=0 decomp=256
  sound=off colors=000zzz<253>000
  }




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Allegro port
Date: 09 Dec 2000 18:13:00 -0600

I think I'm close with the allegro port, but I have had lots of trouble.

1. I couldn't install the rpm for allegro that you posted. The KDE
RPM tool crashed, I was in never never land. If I tried to install, it
said it was installed, but if I tried to uninstall it said it was already
installed. Eventually I suceeded by downloading the latest package
from the Allegro site, and using the console RPM rtool rather than
the GUI package. I don't know if I succeeded because there's some
incompatibility between the original package and my Mandrake 7.2
or because I trashed the setup with the KDE RPM tool. Possibly
the the install would have worked in the first place if I had used rpm
-i.

2. Allegro is set up for /usr/local/lib whereas my Mandrake Linux
7.2 is set up for /usr/lib. I'm sure there is a better fix, but I just
added /usr/local/bin to my path and made link in /usr/lib to the
allegro shared library in /usr/local/lib.

3. At this point Xfractint could compile and run, but it aborted with a
seg fault with a whole bunch of messages about various video
modes. I don't think it was able to set the modes.

Any suggestions? I think I need details about your Linux
environment, and step by step instructions, though I think I figured
most of it out. Is there a command line parameter I need when I run
Xfractint/Allegro?

I noticed a whole bunch of test programs were compiled for allegro,
I guess I should try them.

BTW, I have given very little thought to various Uniux/Linux paths,
but I like the idea of /usr/local to keep things I mess around with
separate from "official" packages. I could mount /usr/local on it's
own partition; I guess that is the idea.

Tim


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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: latest xfractint
Date: 09 Dec 2000 19:35:19 -0600

I tried out the latest xfractint at the web site.

1. I'm sure it is no surprise to anyone, but it still barely works under
a truecolor mode. The colors are dark purple, and solid guessing
leaves a grid of dots probably due to reading pixels failing as
before. We need to solve this, because more and more people have
their Linux running in truecolor mode.

2. After a while I changed my system to 256 colors and tried again.
The biggest problem I had was that even though the cursor keys
worked at first, it just took a few minutes of going back and forth
between the text and graphics screen, the cursor keys stopped
working, and each time I pressed a cursor key, Xfractint stopped
working and tried to exit, as though the cursor was emiting ESC or
maybe a RETURN. I guess I should figure out exactly what
sequence of events causes this. This happens under both truecolor
and 256 color. It is probably a curses problem since Xfractint uses
curses.

There is still a niche in the Linux world for a good full featured
fractal program. It would have to be GPL license or similar, and
would have to run under both Gnome and KDE (but built under one
or the other). If this was done it could be added to many
distributions, as Xfractint was with Slakware for a long time (I don't
know if it still is, I doubt it). I feel like the X version is stuck
because none of us developed the X code and don't understand it,
and the "naked X" platform is pretty well obsolete. The Allegro port
can only be a step to something else, though maybe there a few
non-GUI Linux users around. My previous opinion was that we
needed to make a portable version that would compile to Windows
as well as Linux. Now I wonder if that is worthwhile. It might be
best to pick a Linux GUI library and make a Linux version. The
Windows environment is already populated with a number of good
programs.

Tim


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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Allegro port
Date: 09 Dec 2000 19:48:26 -0600

Tim,

> I think I'm close with the allegro port, but I have had lots of trouble.

Along with installing and compiling Allegro, you need to run a setup program
in the directory you are working in.  I believe the install needs to be done
as root.

I ran some of the example programs before I even started trying to integrate
Allegro into Xfractint.  That at least showed me I could get Allegro to
work.  Upgrading to the latest WIP has not worked.  But, maybe I only tried
it under djgpp.  I couldn't get it to compile cleanly.

> 1. I couldn't install the rpm for allegro that you posted. The KDE
> RPM tool crashed, I was in never never land.

I seem to recall something like this.  I don't think it crashed, you just
have to wait a really long time.  Not too convenient, to say the least.

> 2. Allegro is set up for /usr/local/lib whereas my Mandrake Linux
> 7.2 is set up for /usr/lib. I'm sure there is a better fix, but I just
> added /usr/local/bin to my path and made link in /usr/lib to the
> allegro shared library in /usr/local/lib.

I believe that is what the docs tell you to do.

> 3. At this point Xfractint could compile and run, but it aborted with a
> seg fault with a whole bunch of messages about various video
> modes. I don't think it was able to set the modes.

Assuming that you compiled the Allegro source, ran the setup routine in the
Xfractint directory, and maybe copied a file or two to some other location
(this could have been under djgpp).  Or, is that copied the setup program
and ran it in the Xfractint directory?

At any rate, I needed to study the Allegro documentation for a while before
I could even make the examples work.

> I think I need details about your Linux
> environment, and step by step instructions, though I think I figured
> most of it out. Is there a command line parameter I need when I run
> Xfractint/Allegro?

I'm using Mandrake 7.0.  Going from 6.5 to 7.0 broke some things and changed
the interface.  I don't need to keep going through that.

No, there is no command line parameter needed to run Xfractint/Allegro.

For more specifics, I'll need to try updating the WIP under Linux (meaning
maybe next weekend).  I do have Allegro installed on two different machines,
so it is possible to do it.

Jonathan



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: latest xfractint
Date: 10 Dec 2000 07:17:34 -0600

Tim,

>>
The biggest problem I had was that even though the cursor keys
worked at first, it just took a few minutes of going back and forth
between the text and graphics screen, the cursor keys stopped
working, and each time I pressed a cursor key, Xfractint stopped
working and tried to exit, as though the cursor was emiting ESC or
maybe a RETURN. I guess I should figure out exactly what
sequence of events causes this. This happens under both truecolor
and 256 color. It is probably a curses problem since Xfractint uses
curses.
<<

I haven't run into this, but it's been a while since I've played much with
the developer's Xfractint.  I think part of the problem is that the cursor
keys either aren't translated in translate() or get redefined by the
environment before they get to Xfractint.  For the Allegro port I rewrote
translate() to do what I wanted.  It's not perfect, but it's better.  You
might take a look at that.  As I recall, it's been moved to d_allegro.c.

If we start including a standard sstools.ini file with our distribution to
define directories were files can be found, we should make a new [xfractint]
section.  This is because of the / versus \ issue.

Jonathan



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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: latest xfractint
Date: 10 Dec 2000 07:42:05 -0600

Tim,

> My previous opinion was that we
> needed to make a portable version that would compile to Windows
> as well as Linux. Now I wonder if that is worthwhile. It might be
> best to pick a Linux GUI library and make a Linux version. The
> Windows environment is already populated with a number of good
> programs.

Ack!!

Under the ftp/current directory we should make a diffs subdirectory so the
Linux folks don't say, "Huh, where's the diff?"  It's already happened.
That way the dos directory will only contain executables (except for the fo
source).  Perhaps we should include the developer's source (float & integer)
in the dos directory as well.  Keep a current source synch.

Jonathan



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patch 4 to version 20.1
Date: 10 Dec 2000 11:29:49 -0600

The patch 4 diff and executable files are now available.

This patch eliminates the lockup when inside=startrail is used with fractal
type circle.  It also fixes problems Xfractint had with fractal type
cellular and with "popping" out of existence when attempting to use the
parameter, formula, and lsystem (and maybe one or two others) selection
screens.

Jonathan



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From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: latest xfractint
Date: 10 Dec 2000 15:07:27 -0600

On Saturday 09 December 2000 19:35, you wrote:
> I tried out the latest xfractint at the web site.
>

> 2. After a while I changed my system to 256 colors and tried again.
> The biggest problem I had was that even though the cursor keys
> worked at first, it just took a few minutes of going back and forth
> between the text and graphics screen, the cursor keys stopped
> working, and each time I pressed a cursor key, Xfractint stopped
> working and tried to exit, as though the cursor was emiting ESC or
> maybe a RETURN. I guess I should figure out exactly what
> sequence of events causes this. This happens under both truecolor
> and 256 color. It is probably a curses problem since Xfractint uses
> curses.
>
I played with xfract-20.1.04 for about an hour last night, zooming in,
switching back-and-forth (text-to-graphic), pressing 'tab' to look at image
info, etc. Had no problems with the cursor keys. (I was running it in an
xterm window in Linux-Mandrake 7.2 / KDE 2.0.)

And yea! - the '@" key works again! Thanks Jonathan!

Scott
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Xfractint directory reorganization
Date: 10 Dec 2000 15:49:02 -0600

Scott has done us a great favor by pushing us to do something about
Xfractint's use of directories.

A bit of history. Ken Shirriff did the Xfractint port a long time ago entirely on
his own. He did a brilliant job. Many others tried and failed.

Since then, for the most part, we have just tried to update his work to keep it
abreast of the DOS version. This was possible because he designed Xfractint
to share source with Fractint. So I took it upon myself to keep Xfractint
updated to the fractint source. Along the way, there were a few times when
Ken (or others) jumped in and helped, but until now we have never asked any
really fundamental questions about Xfractint and how it is set up. However
this is long overdue, so kudos to Scott. The current setup is based on
whatever Ken thought was the right thing. And it MAY have been right when
he did it ...

I want to talk about it a bit first not because there is any real problem with
Scott's proposals, but just to give us all some time to think about it.

Here is Scott's proposal:

        currently installed
filename         location
--------    ----------------
xfractint     /usr/X11R6/bin (BINDIR)
fractint.hlp /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
map files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
frm files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
par files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
ifs files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
man page     /usr/X11R6/man/man1
config files /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
user-created /home/username/*
sstools.ini     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
/home/username/*

        proposed location
filename        (as per the FHS 2.1)
--------            -----------------
xfractint        (BINDIR)  /opt/xfractint/bin
fractint.hlp    (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
map files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
frm files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
par files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
ifs files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
man page                  /opt/xfractint/man/man1
config files    (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint
user-created              /home/username/*
sstools.ini        (SRCDIR)  /home/username/*

Thoughts? I have personally just put all the xfractint
stuff in /home/tim/xfractint because I am always
fooling with it. I guess I usually change SRCDIR to ".".

Occasionally I have wondered if it is a good idea to
compile directories in. Some software has a special .h
file just for this sort of thing. But I have wondered
if it wouldn't be better.

Tim



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: latest xfractint
Date: 10 Dec 2000 15:51:25 -0600


> I played with xfract-20.1.04 for about an hour last night, zooming in,
> switching back-and-forth (text-to-graphic), pressing 'tab' to look at image
> info, etc. Had no problems with the cursor keys. (I was running it in an
> xterm window in Linux-Mandrake 7.2 / KDE 2.0.)

I tried today and saw the problem almost immediately. Then I tried
again and didn't see it. It is something to do with changing focus
between windows - I'll have to isolate the exact key sequence.

Tim


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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint directory reorganization
Date: 10 Dec 2000 20:51:24 -0600

Scott,

One small problem I see with your Xfractint setup is that the install
script calls make but the various variables might have been
changed in make, so the assumptions about the defaults might be
wrong. Also, the way the makefile is currently setup is that there
are settings for many platforms. I'm not sure if we want to change
the settings on other platforms, only Linux. Not  that very many
people are using Xfractint on other platforms.

I'll probably make the email address [e-mail] instead
of [e-mail]. At the moment all mail not to one of the
other folks comes to me. I have full control of the email through a
tool Damien gave me access. If anyone has a reason for a
fractint.org email alias (for example, if there's a particular kind of
support you could supply) let me know, it's easily done.

Tim


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From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint directory reorganization
Date: 10 Dec 2000 21:48:42 -0600

Tim,

Good points that I hadn't thought of.
>
> One small problem I see with your Xfractint setup is that the install
> script calls make but the various variables might have been
> changed in make, so the assumptions about the defaults might be
> wrong.
When you say the "various variables", do you mean the variable such as
DESTDIR and BINDIR? If so, there might be a way to have the install script
look at those variables and work with them. (Using 'grep' maybe?)

> Also, the way the makefile is currently setup is that there
> are settings for many platforms. I'm not sure if we want to change
> the settings on other platforms, only Linux. Not  that very many
> people are using Xfractint on other platforms.
I was going to put something to that effect in the README - that the changes
and settings were recommended for Linux only, and hadn't been tested on any
other Unix systems. (Until I can find a good, used Sun UltraSparc, that is.)
I also wish that my employer would let me compile and run Xfractint on one of
their HP-9000's, but it's not for business purposes, so, no can do... (I'm
sure those HP-9000's have plenty of spare CPU cycles, though.)   8-)
>
>
And in response to your original email with this same subject:
Thanks for the kudos and kind words! I wasn't expecting that! Actually, I was
expecting some reluctance, because of your comments earlier in the year about
not wanting to fork the Xfractint source. I felt that there were others that
would feel the same way also. Especially those of you like you Tim, and
Jonathan, who work on patching both versions, and keeping them in sync with
one another.

Until later,
Scott
--
[e-mail]
http://home.swbell.net/sdboyd56/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint directory reorganization
Date: 12 Dec 2000 00:09:05 -0600

Scott asked:

> When you say the "various variables", do you mean the variable such as
> DESTDIR and BINDIR?

Yes

> If so, there might be a way to have the install script
> look at those variables and work with them. (Using 'grep' maybe?)

Maybe the make file should call the script? Either the script or the
makefile should be able to pass variables to the other. I think. I am
barely competent with scripting, just seem to be able to make em
work when I need to.

> Actually, I was
> expecting some reluctance, because of your comments earlier in the year about
> not wanting to fork the Xfractint source.

Nothing you are proposing comes close to forking. And the stuff
you are addrerssing is long overdue.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xfractint directory reorganization
Date: 13 Dec 2000 10:55:42 -0600

On Tuesday 12 December 2000 00:09, you wrote:
>
> Maybe the make file should call the script? Either the script or the
> makefile should be able to pass variables to the other. I think. I am
> barely competent with scripting, just seem to be able to make em
> work when I need to.
>
I'll take a look at it and see what I can get to work. I'm not a scripting
wiz, either, but I'm getting better at it!

Scott
--
[e-mail]
http://home.swbell.net/sdboyd56/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: 14 Dec 2000 18:10:32 -0700

Date sent:          Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:45:36 -0700
    ["Humberto R. Baptista" <[e-mail]>]
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From [e-mail] Thu Dec 14 17:45:34 2000
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    Hi,

    I've been away for a while from the list, but as times goes by we tend to
find the moments to go back to the things we like :-)

    Regarding the proposal I tend to get confused with the variable name SRCDIR
used to point to global configuration files such as man, frm, par etc.

    The proposal:
            proposed location
filename        (as per the FHS 2.1)
--------            -----------------
xfractint        (BINDIR)  /opt/xfractint/bin
fractint.hlp    (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
map files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
frm files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
par files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
ifs files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
man page                  /opt/xfractint/man/man1
config files    (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint
user-created              /home/username/*
sstools.ini        (SRCDIR)  /home/username/*

    Could be more like:

            proposed location
filename        (as per the FHS 2.1)
--------            -----------------
xfractint        (BINDIR)  /opt/xfractint/bin/
fractint.hlp    (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint/      ******See below*****
man page                  /opt/xfractint/man/man1/
config files    (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/
map files        (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/map/
frm files        (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/frm/
par files        (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/par/
ifs files        (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/ifs/
user-created              $HOME (usually points to :/home/username/)
sstools.ini        (SRCDIR)  $HOME (usually points to :/home/username/)

    My only concern with this is as of where should the .hlp file be placed.
I'm not sure by maybe the FHS allows the creation of special directories
under the /opt/aplication/ level. If this is so I would recommend to use
/opt/xfractint/hlp/

    Best Regards to all

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]
    aka [e-mail]



-----Mensaje original-----
De: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]En nombre de Tim Wegner
Enviado el: Domingo, 10 de Diciembre de 2000 18:49
Para: [e-mail]
Asunto: Xfractint directory reorganization


Scott has done us a great favor by pushing us to do something about
Xfractint's use of directories.

A bit of history. Ken Shirriff did the Xfractint port a long time ago
entirely on
his own. He did a brilliant job. Many others tried and failed.

Since then, for the most part, we have just tried to update his work to keep
it
abreast of the DOS version. This was possible because he designed Xfractint
to share source with Fractint. So I took it upon myself to keep Xfractint
updated to the fractint source. Along the way, there were a few times when
Ken (or others) jumped in and helped, but until now we have never asked any
really fundamental questions about Xfractint and how it is set up. However
this is long overdue, so kudos to Scott. The current setup is based on
whatever Ken thought was the right thing. And it MAY have been right when
he did it ...

I want to talk about it a bit first not because there is any real problem
with
Scott's proposals, but just to give us all some time to think about it.

Here is Scott's proposal:

        currently installed
filename         location
--------    ----------------
xfractint     /usr/X11R6/bin (BINDIR)
fractint.hlp /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
map files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
frm files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
par files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
ifs files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
man page     /usr/X11R6/man/man1
config files /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
user-created /home/username/*
sstools.ini     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
/home/username/*

        proposed location
filename        (as per the FHS 2.1)
--------            -----------------
xfractint        (BINDIR)  /opt/xfractint/bin
fractint.hlp    (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
map files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
frm files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
par files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
ifs files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
man page                  /opt/xfractint/man/man1
config files    (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint
user-created              /home/username/*
sstools.ini        (SRCDIR)  /home/username/*

Thoughts? I have personally just put all the xfractint
stuff in /home/tim/xfractint because I am always
fooling with it. I guess I usually change SRCDIR to ".".

Occasionally I have wondered if it is a good idea to
compile directories in. Some software has a special .h
file just for this sort of thing. But I have wondered
if it wouldn't be better.

Tim



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------- End of forwarded message -------

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Humberto R. Baptista" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Xfractint directory reorganization
Date: 14 Dec 2000 18:32:53 -0700

    Hi,

    I've been away for a while from the list, but as times goes
by we tend to
find the moments to go back to the things we like :-)

    Regarding the proposal I tend to get confused with the
variable name SRCDIR
used to point to global configuration files such as man, frm, par etc.

    The proposal:
            proposed location
filename        (as per the FHS 2.1)
--------            -----------------
xfractint        (BINDIR)  /opt/xfractint/bin
fractint.hlp    (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
map files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
frm files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
par files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
ifs files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
man page                  /opt/xfractint/man/man1
config files    (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint
user-created              /home/username/*
sstools.ini        (SRCDIR)  /home/username/*

    Could be more like:

            proposed location
filename        (as per the FHS 2.1)
--------            -----------------
xfractint        (BINDIR)  /opt/xfractint/bin/
fractint.hlp    (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint/      ******See below*****
man page                  /opt/xfractint/man/man1/
config files    (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/
map files        (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/map/
frm files        (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/frm/
par files        (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/par/
ifs files        (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint/ifs/
user-created              $HOME (usually points to :/home/username/)
sstools.ini        (SRCDIR)  $HOME (usually points to :/home/username/)

    My only concern with this is as of where should the .hlp file be placed.
I'm not sure by maybe the FHS allows the creation of special directories
under the /opt/aplication/ level. If this is so I would recommend to use
/opt/xfractint/hlp/

    Best Regards to all

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]
    aka [e-mail]



-----Mensaje original-----
De: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]En nombre de Tim Wegner
Enviado el: Domingo, 10 de Diciembre de 2000 18:49
Para: [e-mail]
Asunto: Xfractint directory reorganization


Scott has done us a great favor by pushing us to do something about
Xfractint's use of directories.

A bit of history. Ken Shirriff did the Xfractint port a long time ago
entirely on
his own. He did a brilliant job. Many others tried and failed.

Since then, for the most part, we have just tried to update his work to keep
it
abreast of the DOS version. This was possible because he designed Xfractint
to share source with Fractint. So I took it upon myself to keep Xfractint
updated to the fractint source. Along the way, there were a few times when
Ken (or others) jumped in and helped, but until now we have never asked any
really fundamental questions about Xfractint and how it is set up. However
this is long overdue, so kudos to Scott. The current setup is based on
whatever Ken thought was the right thing. And it MAY have been right when
he did it ...

I want to talk about it a bit first not because there is any real problem
with
Scott's proposals, but just to give us all some time to think about it.

Here is Scott's proposal:

        currently installed
filename         location
--------    ----------------
xfractint     /usr/X11R6/bin (BINDIR)
fractint.hlp /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
map files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
frm files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
par files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
ifs files     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
man page     /usr/X11R6/man/man1
config files /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
user-created /home/username/*
sstools.ini     /usr/X11R6/xfractint (SRCDIR)
/home/username/*

        proposed location
filename        (as per the FHS 2.1)
--------            -----------------
xfractint        (BINDIR)  /opt/xfractint/bin
fractint.hlp    (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
map files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
frm files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
par files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
ifs files        (SRCDIR)  /opt/xfractint
man page                  /opt/xfractint/man/man1
config files    (SRCDIR)  /etc/opt/xfractint
user-created              /home/username/*
sstools.ini        (SRCDIR)  /home/username/*

Thoughts? I have personally just put all the xfractint
stuff in /home/tim/xfractint because I am always
fooling with it. I guess I usually change SRCDIR to ".".

Occasionally I have wondered if it is a good idea to
compile directories in. Some software has a special .h
file just for this sort of thing. But I have wondered
if it wouldn't be better.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott D. Boyd" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Discussion of Xfractint dir. reorganization
Date: 14 Dec 2000 23:00:38 -0600

On Thursday 14 December 2000 19:10, Humberto wrote:


>     Regarding the proposal I tend to get confused with the variable name
> SRCDIR used to point to global configuration files such as man, frm, par
> etc.
>
>     My only concern with this is as of where should the .hlp file be placed.
> I'm not sure by maybe the FHS allows the creation of special directories
> under the /opt/aplication/ level.

Yes it does.

If this is so I would recommend to use
> /opt/xfractint/hlp/
>
I had considered something similar to that, except it was with the .par,
.frm. etc files being placed in their own directories under /opt/xfractint.
(Actually, it was Jonathan's suggestion/idea.) I had looked thru the source,
trying to determine how the program knows where those files are kept. I saw a
reference to a variable called "FRACTDIR", but couldn't figure out where that
variable was initally set (with 'setenv' function?). I imagine it would be
just as difficult trying to change where the program looks for fractint.hlp,
as it is also in the same directory as the .par and .frm files. fractint.hlp
is really tied in pretty close with the main program. In fact, Xfractint (and
Fractint, for that matter) won't even start I believe the user can set an
environment variable to force the program to look for fractint.hlp in another
directory, but I'd like to leave that up to the individual users to change if
they want to.

I could look into this further if need be. Any one else in the group feel
that fractint.hlp should be in a sub-dir of /opt/xfractint? Comments?

Scott

--
[e-mail]
http://home.swbell.net/sdboyd56/
Linux...
"Find out what you've been missing while
you've been rebooting Windows NT."
                  --- Infoworld

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Discussion of Xfractint dir. reorganization
Date: 15 Dec 2000 19:03:51 -0600

Scott,

> I had considered something similar to that, except it was with the .par,
> .frm. etc files being placed in their own directories under
/opt/xfractint.
> (Actually, it was Jonathan's suggestion/idea.) I had looked thru the
source,
> trying to determine how the program knows where those files are kept. I
saw a
> reference to a variable called "FRACTDIR", but couldn't figure out where
that
> variable was initally set (with 'setenv' function?). I imagine it would be
> just as difficult trying to change where the program looks for
fractint.hlp,
> as it is also in the same directory as the .par and .frm files.

The location of the frm, par, etc files can be set in the sstools.ini file.
I would propose making an [xfractint] section because of the slash/backslash
variation in how directories are named.  It should be possible to set the
current xfractint directory in the make file with FRACTDIR and then use
entries in sstools.ini such as formulafile=./frm/fractint.frm.  For some
reason, using a different file name doesn't currently work.

Jonathan



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Allegro port
Date: 15 Dec 2000 20:35:27 -0600

Tim,

> 1. I couldn't install the rpm for allegro that you posted. The KDE
> RPM tool crashed,

I did this yesterday with no problems.  I put the Allegro rpm file in
/usr/local/src, then used the KDE RPM tool.  After the installation was
complete, I went to the Allegro subdirectory and typed ./configure.  It was
already set up, so I didn't need to do this.  But, I didn't know that before
hand.  Then I ran "make".  Then "make install".  All this was done as root.

There are three readme files that you need to look at; readme.txt,
readme.uni, and readme.lnx.  The other thing I do is copy setup and
setup.dat to my working directory.  Then I run setup and it generates an
allegro.cfg file.  It's not currently of much use, but may be in the future.

Jonathan



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patch 5 to version 20.1
Date: 24 Dec 2000 20:14:11 -0600

Patch 5 is on the ftp site along with the executable.  The DOS, DOS float
only, and Xfractint versions have been updated.

What's new:

Updated the disk video help docs.  The limit of disk video has been
  32767x32767 since version 20.0.

  Fixed the tab and evolver screens so that not using formula parameters
  consecutively starting with p1 now displays the parameters properly.
  The p4 and p5 parameters have still not been added to the evolver.

  Setting directories in sstools.ini can now be done relative to the
  current directory.  For example: .\frm\fract200.frm

BTW, I'm sure the last is true for the DOS version only.

Jonathan




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bug of the Month
Date: 30 Dec 2000 18:45:07 -0600

It's a little late, but not much has changed.  The problems with the parser
remain and a new problem with saving disk video images that are tall and
skinny has shown up.  Try saving an image with a resolution of 2048x20000.
All seems to go well for a while.  Then the line numbers go crazy.  This
corresponds with the bottom part of the image which doesn't get saved.

The save problem will go away when we switch to png.  Can we wait?  Does
anybody know enough about the GIF encoding routines to fix this?

The parser bugs will mostly go away when we switch over to the all C code.
It would still be nice to fix them.  And, who knows, we may port the parser
over to nasm...

I'll upload patch 6 Monday morning with the fix for fractint.cfg key
assignments.  And, dare I mention, an updated copyright date.

Jonathan




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Off topic - trip north
Date: 30 Dec 2000 23:03:51 -0600

Jonathan,

I zoomed through your neck of the woodswith my family without
incident for the annual holiday trip. (Houston to Minneapolis and
back).

We had no trouble at all, but did encounter strong winds and
blowing snow in Iowa. The road conditions the two days we came
through (21st and 29th) were otherwise nearly perfect. However, I
swear we saw at least 200 cars stuck in the snow - not
exaggerating. They would usually be in groups of six or seven,
probably all having swerved to avoid some initial out-of-control car.
Most were only stuck, not damaged. I used to think it was only
Texas drivers who couldn't handle winter driving <grin!> Also saw
four or fix overturned semi-trailers. This seemed very strange
because driving conditrions were excellent when we came through.
A few hours earlier conditions had probably been very bad.

Today in northern Oklahoma we drove through a surreal scene. On
the previous day there must have been a freezing rainstorm that
had surely caused tremendous damage (downed power lines).
What we saw was several hundred miles of rural Oklahoma where
every bush, tree, fence, wire, and blade of grass was coated with
ice. It was extraordinarily beautiful.

Once again driving conditions were perfect. No wind, the road was
dry and clear, the temperature was above freezing, the sun was
shining. But the landscape was magically transformed into crystal.
I have seen similar effects before, but the ice had melted quickly.
This ice was so thick (maybe half an inch or more in diameter) that
the effect was undiminished despite rising temperatures. This
scene continued for several continuous hours. At one point we
stopped and pulled off the road to see the crystall bushes up close.

Crystal fractals!

Tim

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bug of the Month
Date: 30 Dec 2000 23:03:51 -0600

Jonathan asked:

> The save problem will go away when we switch to png.

I investigated supporting PNG. I actually put a whole lot of effort
into this, including working hard to have medium model support
built into LibPNG.

I do not believe that the medium model Fractint can ever support
PNG except via an external program - e.g. save to a flat file and
execl to an external program that transforms the external file to a
PNG. This is ugly but probably not too hard. But the memory
requirements for LibPNG plus the fact that Fractint is highly
optimized for the medium model, and shoehorned very tightly,
preclude integrating PNG the way GIF is integrated now.

> Does anybody know enough about the GIF encoding routines to fix this?

Depends. If the bug is related to a memory problem due to the odd
dimensions, we can probably find and fix it. But if the bug is in the
GIF code itself, it is like the devil to fix.

Bert Tyler originally wrote his own encoder. The decoder came from
 another author (Steve Bennet, I think). Eventually we learned that
Bert's code had some subtle bugs. We were never able to track
them down. Instead I located some other sources that were widely
used. I am unaware that the new sources have any bugs.

Something that still makes me mad is that Unisys extracts money
for the GIF patent but supplies no support. PNG, by way of
contrast, extracts no royalties but has tremendous support.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bug of the Month
Date: 31 Dec 2000 07:35:40 -0600

Tim,

> I do not believe that the medium model Fractint can ever support
> PNG except via an external program - e.g. save to a flat file and
> execl to an external program that transforms the external file to a
> PNG.

My thoughts were to get PNG into Xfractint.  The Allegro package lets you
save images in several different formats (not PNG).  Are we going to have to
go through the same contortions we do now for GIF between the different
ports?  This is regarding the fractal specific data that gets saved big
endian or little endian to the file and we have to swap it with Xfractint
and not Fractint.

Have you had any luck/time/patience getting the Allegro package installed?
That rpm takes forever to install with no visible signs of it working.  If
you switch to a different virtual terminal you'll see that the cpu is very
busy.

On a different subject, take a look at lodimagmul in parsera.asm.  And then
look at lodrealmul just above it.  The two are identical.  This doesn't seem
right.  I think the lodimagmul needs fxch and fchs added at the end to make
it correct.

Jonathan



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From: "Jonathan Osuch" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Off topic - trip north
Date: 31 Dec 2000 07:09:03 -0600

Tim,

> I zoomed through your neck of the woodswith my family without
> incident for the annual holiday trip. (Houston to Minneapolis and
> back).

> We had no trouble at all, but did encounter strong winds and
> blowing snow in Iowa. The road conditions the two days we came
> through (21st and 29th) were otherwise nearly perfect. However, I
> swear we saw at least 200 cars stuck in the snow - not
> exaggerating.

The storms you missed on both the 21st and 29th were on the East side of
Iowa when I was driving home both those days.  Not pleasant.  You were very
lucky.

Yesterday Rachel put one of our cars into the median strip.  Hit an icy spot
and used the snow to slow the car down.  Nobody was hurt, no apparent damage
to the car.  It looks like she just pulled over and parked it.  But, it's
still there.  The weather got progressively worse during the day.  It's
supposed to be towed this morning, but it's snowing again.

Jonathan



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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Off topic - trip north
Date: 31 Dec 2000 11:03:37 -0600

(added list back in to Scott's response)

Scott wrote:

> I *was* going to ask you if you saw any
> fractal patterns in the ice crystals. Then I read the last comment...
> Looks like you did!  8-)

No doubt at all. Crystal fractals, a feast for the eyes.

> Oh - they said on the news Friday nite (I believe), that the Governor of
> Oklahoma had declared the whole state a disaster area.

Though I didn't see any damage myself otrher than a few utility
trucks, I am sure freezing rain is a very serious problem. Very
strange that a phenomenon that causes such a disaster is also
such a beautiful visual feast.

Tim


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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bug of the Month
Date: 31 Dec 2000 11:03:37 -0600

Jonathan wrote:

> My thoughts were to get PNG into Xfractint.  The Allegro package lets you
> save images in several different formats (not PNG).

This is no big deal. PNG support can be added in a day or so. We
can implement support directly using Libpng, and Xfractint and the
allegro port.

> Are we going to have to
> go through the same contortions we do now for GIF between the different
> ports?  This is regarding the fractal specific data that gets saved big
> endian or little endian to the file and we have to swap it with Xfractint
> and not Fractint.

You have zeroed right in on the one hard issue.

There are two approaches. When PNG was first created, I thought
we were going to instantly adopt PNG. So I lobbied hard for some
special PNG chunks for saving GIF extension blocks. Using these
would be the easiest, because effectively we'd just have the
existing GIF extension blocks inside PNG, and essentially the
same code would be used for saving/reading data.

But it's certainly not a good idea to do this.

For one thing, I seriously doubt GIF-to-PNG utilities support these
chunks. (If we had done our PNG implementation immediately, we
probably could have influenced everyone to have this support, but
it's too late now.)

Secondly, the GIF extension blocks in PNG were only envisioned
as a temporary transition issue. The concern at the time was to
facilitate a massive move from GIF to PNG. This is a non-issue for
use because we can write our own GIF-to-PNG utility that correctly
saves

I raise the GIF extension blocks just for historical interest. There is
NO point to doing this.

I have reserved a chunk name fRAc for the purpose of saving fractal
data in PNG, but have never defined it.  Designing this chunk
properly will take effort. It can store numbers in text to eliminate all
endian issues. It should NOT use version numbers, but should use
a well-thought-through subchunks scheme that never changes the
definition of a subchunk. This is PNG's philosophy. If you need
something new, you define a new chunk. Ideally the fRAc definition
should not be fractint-specific, but this may be moot now. A team
design effort would be a mess. We could publish a proposed spec
and accept feedback from interested parties. The subchunk format
is great because others can just add their own subchunks if we
leave something out.

We can also use an internal chunk name. We could just use the
PAR format using a private chunk name. This would give us some
time to figure out fRAc.

Since we are making major mods to fractint, I would prefer to take
the opportunity to devise new solutions so we don't extend legacy
problems further.

> Have you had any luck/time/patience getting the Allegro package installed?
> That rpm takes forever to install with no visible signs of it working.  If
> you switch to a different virtual terminal you'll see that the cpu is very
> busy.

Nothing new since I attempted this before the holidays. I believe I
did not install Allegro properly. I'll have to try again.

Tim


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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bug of the Month
Date: 31 Dec 2000 12:53:04 -0500

Tim,

 - I have reserved a chunk name fRAc for the purpose of saving
 - fractal data in PNG, but have never defined it.  Designing
 - this chunk properly will take effort. It can store numbers
 - in text to eliminate all endian issues.

However if you store numbers as text you have precision issues, unless you
allow variable-size fields to store variable-precision numbers.

Would it be appropriate to simply include the information in plain text
form, as it is stored in a PAR file? The difference being that if it's in a
fRAc chunk, FractInt would know it's parameter information and would
attempt to interpret it, rather than the image simply being a PNG from an
undetermined source. But, this might go against the PNG philosophy (I
haven't examined the PNG format specification in detail, it's been too long
since I wrote image file format code).

I guess I'm just curious as to why you want a binary format for the chunk.
:)

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.


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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Off topic - trip north
Date: 31 Dec 2000 12:20:13 -0600

Jonathan wrote:

> The storms you missed on both the 21st and 29th were on the East side of
> Iowa when I was driving home both those days.  Not pleasant.  You were very
> lucky.

I have no doubt we were fortunate!

I do have respect for the weather, and watched it carefully. If it had
looked like we would be heading into a storm, I'd have tried to
change our schedule. Of course one can't always tell ahead ...

> Yesterday Rachel put one of our cars into the median strip.  Hit an icy spot
> and used the snow to slow the car down.  Nobody was hurt, no apparent damage
> to the car.  It looks like she just pulled over and parked it.

I'm glad Rachel was not hurt. This appeared to me to be the case
for most of the stranded cars, with a few unfortunate exceptions.

Tim


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From: Tim Wegner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bug of the Month
Date: 31 Dec 2000 12:19:01 -0600

Damien wrote:

> However if you store numbers as text you have precision issues, unless you
> allow variable-size fields to store variable-precision numbers.

Exactly - variable size. The format could start with a number that
says how long the field is.

And also wrote:

> Would it be appropriate to simply include the information in plain text
> form, as it is stored in a PAR file?

That's roughly the idea.

> I guess I'm just curious as to why you want a binary format for the chunk.
> :)

I don't. Binary format in a chunk is bad. I'd prefer everything in the
chunk to be plain text. However, if there are numbers (e.g. field
length) they would be in network byte order.

Tim


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