ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/fractdev/archive/fractdev.199903

Internet Message Format | 1999-03-10 | 54KB

From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Re: 32 bit port - graphics API
Date: 01 Mar 1999 21:26:42 -0300 (EST)

On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Tim Gilman wrote:

> Does anyone have any opinions on these sorts of issues?

    Yes: my goes in the direction you're going while supporting a more
hands-on approach (TimW style:-)):

    The abtractions o the grahics system is important but not essential
right now and as you've pointed needs a LOT more research.

    Our main problem (in my opinion, of course) is to move to a flat memory
model to allow people to experiment more and throw more peebles in the soup! I
hate to cook in a small pan :-)))

    `[]'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 12:26:02 -0700

OK, what do I need to know in order to convert the assembler to
32-bit?

I've coded 6809 and 680x0 assembler before, but not x86 assembler,
although I'm familiar with the architecture and instruction set.

It looks like the fastest path to the 32-bit flat memory-model is to
port everything in the existing fractint code base, including the
assembler.

Tim, weren't you going to send me the URL for the newer development
version of the code (including evolver, etc.) so I can merge my
changes?
--
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
          <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>

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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 13:38:08 -0600

Phil,

 - OK, what do I need to know in order to convert the assembler to
 - 32-bit?

<guffaw>

:-)

 - I've coded 6809 and 680x0 assembler before, but not x86 assembler,
 - although I'm familiar with the architecture and instruction set.

Hmmm. First step, of course: forget most of your optimizing tricks from
680x0 code. :) Then, if you want to write fast code, check Agner Fog's guide:

    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/9498/p5opt.html

Now, your problem is that a lot of the assembly programming guides for the
PC all seem to start out with real-mode DOS programming, which is a pain in
the neck and far more complicated. 32-bit programming is simple. You don't
ever mess with segment registers--you just treat memory as a flat address
space, like you do on the 680x0. And although you'll find specialized
instructions for doing specific things with specific registers, most of the
time these are hold-overs from earlier generations; the general-purpose
instructions that work on almost all registers are faster, and they give
you more flexibility.

Don't forget that x86 chips store the least significant byte in the lowest
address; this is backwards from 680x0 chips. If you have a variable you
want to access as both a longword and a word, on the 680x0 you'd do it like
this:

        move.w var1+2,d0        ; access the low word
        move.l var1,d1        ; access the entire longword
        ...
var1    dc.l $12345678

On an x86, you'd do it like this:

        mov ax,WORD PTR var1    ; access the low word
        mov ebx,var1            ; access the entire doubleword
        ...
var1    dd 012345678h

Note that for x86 instructions, the destination is on the left, not on the
right. This caused me no end of trouble when I moved from 680x0 to x86. On
the whole, I think I prefer the 680x0 syntax. I certainly prefer having
more registers to work with. :-) Having only eight general-purpose
registers when you're used to sixteen is a *tight* squeeze.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 12:59:42 -0700


In article <[e-mail]>,
    "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>  writes:
> Phil,

By the way, in case anyone didn't know (or care :-).  "Phil McRevis"
is a gag name.  I put it on my account because some people insist on
knowing your "real name" before they will take you seriously and/or
answer your questions.  I used to use various pithy phrases like
"Legalize Adulthood!" in my real name field and people would have
these reactions about knowing who I am "really".  So I put the Phil
McRevis there to satisfy these boneheads (say it out loud to get the
gag).

I did have a bad experience once with some dork who decided that he
was going to use my real name to look up my phone number and leave
threatening messages on my answering machine.  (I still have the tape
around somewhere in case he decides to run for office; yes, he was a
dork from a politics mailing list.)  Nowadays that is less likely to
happen since I've gotten my phone number unlisted to avoid
telemarketers during dinner, but still, you never know.

My real name is Rich.  If anyone doesn't recognize who I am from the
style of my messages and is curious, email me in private and I may
reveal more.  Its a shame that one must resort to security through
obscurity in order to protect oneself from the various boneheads out
there these days, but its what I've found works best.

Now back to our regular program...

>  - OK, what do I need to know in order to convert the assembler to
>  - 32-bit?
>
> <guffaw>

Well we just didn't seem to be reaching any firm conclusion about what
to do about the graphics.  I'm not even going to attempt making the
converted assembly fast or efficient, merely functional.

>     http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/9498/p5opt.html

I've read this before, but as I say, I'm not looking for the minimum
cycle M-set computation, just something that *works* in 32-bit mode.

> Now, your problem is that a lot of the assembly programming guides for the
> PC all seem to start out with real-mode DOS programming, which is a pain in
> the neck and far more complicated.

Yes, the book I have on x86 assembly code is like that.  Fortunately I
got it so cheap that I didn't feel ripped off :-).  (It was like $5 or
something like that.)

> Note that for x86 instructions, the destination is on the left, not on the
> right. This caused me no end of trouble when I moved from 680x0 to x86.

Its actually been so long since I genuinely coded assembly (last time
was in 1986!) that I don't expect this to be a problem for me :-).

Mostly I'm just concerned about converting the 16bit assembler in such
a way as to preserve its correctness.  Some other assembly guru can
adjust for speed if necessary.
--
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>

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From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 13:08:38 -0700


Can someone recommend a good book on 32-bit assembler?  I'd like to
have a nice reference + tutorial to work with while I'm doing this.
As I said, I have an x86 assembler book, but it is focused on 16bit
DOS real-mode code, not 32bit protected mode stuff.  Yes, I can print
out the x86 PDF files from intel, but that's hardly the best way to
learn assembler -- staring at a long compendium of detailed tehcnical
info on each and every instruction without a tutorial-like overview.
--
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>

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From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 17:27:22 -0300 (EST)


    Hi Phil (Rich),

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Phil McRevis wrote:

> It looks like the fastest path to the 32-bit flat memory-model is to
> port everything in the existing fractint code base, including the
> assembler.

    I think that won't be necessary as the work on xfractint has ported back
all assembly to C, so as a simple path we can use this to obtain a fractint
version that is compiled to 32 bit.

    What we lack right now is the porting of the graphic/text interface to
32 bit (in C for portability issues ??) To that we have seen the mantion of
Allegro as a library that can handle both Linux and DOS 32 bit (does it work in
other Unixes, and/or X?).

> Tim, weren't you going to send me the URL for the newer development
> version of the code (including evolver, etc.) so I can merge my
> changes?

    Hi Tim, How are things doing? I see from the ftp that you haven't merged
thelast stuff yet in the files, any ideas?

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 13:29:45 -0700


In article <[e-mail]>,
    Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>  writes:
>I think that won't be necessary as the work on xfractint has ported back
> all assembly to C, so as a simple path we can use this to obtain a fractint
> version that is compiled to 32 bit.

No, this won't work (completely) for the DOS code, because xfractint
doesn't know anything about VGA cards and so-on.  It uses X for
graphics and input.  Yes, some things can be stolen from the xfractint
source code but for others it uses an X-centric replacement, not a
straight "do what the DOS code does, but do it in C" replacement.
--
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>

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From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) New Release?
Date: 03 Mar 1999 17:37:43 -0300 (EST)


    Hi All,

    I know I'm a newcomer to the development, but I am feeling more of less
what is happening in our recent discussions, soI'll make a suggestion:

    - Is it time to make a new public release of fractint? It has several
new features and the authores _seem_ to have tested it well. If so we could try
to make a feature freeze to uncover bugs for, say one month, and:

    - Move to 32 bit in the next version?

    What do the list thinks?

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 17:39:41 -0300 (EST)

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Phil McRevis wrote:

> No, this won't work (completely) for the DOS code, because xfractint
> doesn't know anything about VGA cards and so-on.  It uses X for
> graphics and input.  Yes, some things can be stolen from the xfractint
> source code but for others it uses an X-centric replacement, not a
> straight "do what the DOS code does, but do it in C" replacement.

    Right thats' why I mentioned a portable ans open 32 bit grapphics
library (Allegro) in the mail. This would help us to cope with the parts that
are missing (the screen IO, that is).

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 16:29:59 -0600

Rich,

 - By the way, in case anyone didn't know (or care :-).  "Phil McRevis"
 - is a gag name.

Doh! Yep, I get it now. Silly me.

It is indeed a shame that you have found it necessary to obscure this piece
of information about yourself. It's even more of a shame that someone went
to the trouble of leaving you threatening phone messages. It's one reason I
keep an unlisted number. (At the moment, it's not only unlisted, but the
account isn't even in my name.) But I also don't publish my e-mail address
on the web or post it to a newsgroup, so I guess I'm mildly paranoid
myself. :)

 - Mostly I'm just concerned about converting the 16bit assembler in such
 - a way as to preserve its correctness.  Some other assembly guru can
 - adjust for speed if necessary.

Well, for the most part you should be able to get away with simply removing
the segment register references, then, but depending on how clever the
FractInt code gets with its segment register shuffling, that may not be
easy. And as pointed out, the bigger problem isn't the generating code...
it IS the graphics. One of the problems is that 32-bit mode doesn't exist
outside of a protected mode environment, which makes accessing the video
hardware a little bit more difficult. Usually you can't just access video
RAM directly. :-(

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 03 Mar 1999 19:04:12 -0600


> No, this won't work (completely) for the DOS code, because xfractint
> doesn't know anything about VGA cards and so-on.  It uses X for
> graphics and input.  Yes, some things can be stolen from the xfractint
> source code but for others it uses an X-centric replacement, not a
> straight "do what the DOS code does, but do it in C" replacement.

What you are saying is true, but starting with the Xfractint code is
bt far the easiest way to start. It would not be a good idea to port
video.asm, but rather, port the main mode setting, pixel read/write,
and character read/write routines. djgpp has an SVGA library we
could use. We could also use allego.

Having considered nearly every alternative ad nauseum, I believe
that the best short term 32 bit project would be to port to djgpp,
and maybe simultaeously to Linux non-X. We don't need any
assembler to do this. Once done, we could enhance the result with
some key assembler. IMHO the most important assembler is the
fast parser.

Tim


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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) New Release?
Date: 03 Mar 1999 19:00:53 -0600

Humberto asked:

>     - Is it time to make a new public release of fractint? It has several
> new features and the authores _seem_ to have tested it well. If so we could try
> to make a feature freeze to uncover bugs for, say one month, and:

Robin proposed releasing our current developer version as a "public
beta", which is something we haven't done before. But I haven't
heard from Jonathan since then; I'm guessing he is out of town or
otherwise off line.

There are a few known loose ends, but I see no harm in releasing
somethimng sooner than we usually do because development is
going so slowly.

Robin needs to document his sound additions. Jonathan was
working on some Linux debugging. There are some other loose
ends, such as some partially integrated synchronous orbuts - two
versions, in fact!

My opinion is that we could release what we have as a public beta
most any time, without necessarily tying up all loose ends first. I'd
suggest putting it in just one or two places (e.g.spanky) and having
a distribution agreement saying that because it is a beta it should
not be re-uploaded.

Tim


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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) New Release?
Date: 03 Mar 1999 21:28:16 -0600

Rich asked:

> Tim, if you recommend using xfractint sources as a start, should I
> just use the xfractint 3.04?

No, start with the current synch, which I'll commit having up
Thursday night if not sooner. There are too many changes already
made in the developer version, and if you are doing massive global
changes yourself, it would be very hard to catch up.

Yet another consideration. I have made a smaller version of Fractint
that has all the integer math stripped out. We could start with the
Xfractint version of that, and then we'd never be faced with having to
strip out the integer math.

I just heard from Jonathan. He has no problem with a public beta
relatively soon.

BTW both svgalib and allegro exist for both djgpp and LINUX, so I
expect our 32 bit port could be developed for both at the same time
with minimum fuss.

Tim



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From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) New Release?
Date: 03 Mar 1999 20:38:08 -0700


OK, hollar at me when you've got something for me to grab.
--
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>

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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) Xfractint synch
Date: 03 Mar 1999 22:43:14 -0600

I have uploaded the Xfractint source to the latest developer version
1961 patch 65.

It is in

 ftp://ftp.phoenix.net/pub/USERS/twegner/X1961p65.zip

Does anyone need the DOS version source?

Tim


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From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Xfractint synch and Release
Date: 04 Mar 1999 12:59:48 -0300 (EST)

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Tim Wegner wrote:

> Does anyone need the DOS version source?

    Ups I do not have the last patch (65) :-(((

    BTW: I also like the public Beta strategy.

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 04 Mar 1999 13:04:36 -0300 (EST)

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Tim Wegner wrote:

> and character read/write routines. djgpp has an SVGA library we
> could use. We could also use allego.

    I may be wrong, but from what I've seend the allegro library links qith
DOS and direct HW access for DOS ans SVGAlib in Linux. So it would be nice, but
I haven't used it, the only example I have of it working in both environments is
XaoS (but i havent looked at the code yet). Comments anyone?

> Having considered nearly every alternative ad nauseum, I believe
> that the best short term 32 bit project would be to port to djgpp,
> and maybe simultaeously to Linux non-X. We don't need any

    Tim, I guess to avoid comming back to the same issues (now I understand
you) woudn't it be nice if some sort of "general plan" was devised to focus our
work instead of spreading it?

> assembler to do this. Once done, we could enhance the result with
> some key assembler. IMHO the most important assembler is the
> fast parser.

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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From: "Ron Barnett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) True Color Support
Date: 04 Mar 1999 11:07:22 -0500

One possible way to provide true color support with an intermediate release
without changing current Fractint code (add some code on instead) might be
the following:

These suggestions would apply to virtually of the true color methods out
there: The Vepstas method for polynomials, my exponential method for all
fractal types, Mitchell's triangle inequality method, decomposition,
potential, etc. By way of a formula, write the final coloring value to
Real.Z. Then provide a function with true color support (e.g. 24 bit) which
uses Real.Z for the graphics. Existing color maps could be used by
interpolating into the color map. I use map color interpolation (both RGB
and HSL) in my Truemand program and it works very well. If there is a
difficulty in interfacing at the DOS level with 24 bit color cards, write a
file instead such at TGA (ug!), BMP (ug!), TIF, PNG etc.

Ron Barnett


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: Fwd: (fractdev) True Color Support
Date: 04 Mar 1999 21:32 0000

>One possible way to provide true color support with an intermediate
release
>without changing current Fractint code (add some code on instead)
might
be
>the following:
I suggested something like this a while back, the code for testing and
setting truecolour pixels already exists in fractint thanks to Bert Tyler.
It should be fairly simple to brew up a video mode, for use with formula
types only, which just colours pixels according to the values of
variables which are settable by the parser.... only trouble is I don' t
understand what's going on in the parser well enough to map named
variables in a formula to globals in fractint proper :-( I'll have  a go once
I've shaken off this cold and sorted out the sound drivers but it's going
to be a print it all out on fanfold and play with pencils job :-)

Cheers,
         Robin.




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From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Fwd: (fractdev) True Color Support
Date: 04 Mar 1999 15:38:20 -0600

I would think the *most* direct way of supporting true color would be to
take the existing decomp, outside, and inside options which return real
values, and (if a true color mode is selected) simply interpolate in the
existing 256-color palette. Coloring formulas written for FractInt's
existing parser return color values in z anyway, for outside=real or
decomp=256. If the plotting code simply interprets these in a continuous
fashion, you can get smooth true-color support without touching the formula
parser at all.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: "Ron Barnett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Fwd: (fractdev) True Color Support
Date: 04 Mar 1999 16:47:53 -0500

Perhaps worded poorly, but that was precisely my point, since I knew that
Real.Z is "real".
REB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Damien M. Jones
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 4:38 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: Fwd: (fractdev) True Color Support
>
>
> I would think the *most* direct way of supporting true color would be to
> take the existing decomp, outside, and inside options which return real
> values, and (if a true color mode is selected) simply interpolate in the
> existing 256-color palette. Coloring formulas written for FractInt's
> existing parser return color values in z anyway, for outside=real or
> decomp=256. If the plotting code simply interprets these in a continuous
> fashion, you can get smooth true-color support without touching
> the formula
> parser at all.
>
> Damien M. Jones   \\
> [e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
>                     \\  http://www.fractalus.com/
>
> Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
> in a newsgroup.  Thank you.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
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> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Xfractint synch and Release
Date: 04 Mar 1999 23:29:31 -0600

Humberto wrote:

>     Ups I do not have the last patch (65) :-(((

Ok I have uploaded for the DOS version:

ftp://ftp.phoenix.net/pub/USERS/twegner/s1961p65.zip
complete files of diffs with a batch file that creates the current
synch from 19.6 source. About half the size of the full synch below.

ftp://ftp.phoenix.net/pub/USERS/twegner/o1961p65.zip
object code for assembler.

ftp://ftp.phoenix.net/pub/USERS/twegner/1961p65s.zip
synch of complete files

Note that the files shared between x1961p65.zip and 1961p65s.zip
are identical.

Tim


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From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 04 Mar 1999 23:50:16 -0600

Humberto requested:

>     Tim, I guess to avoid comming back to the same issues (now I understand
> you) woudn't it be nice if some sort of "general plan" was devised to focus our
> work instead of spreading it?

I dunno what you mean by general plan, but I'd suggest this :-)

I'd like to see the current DOS fractint ported to LINUX (non-X) and
djgpp using svgalib or Allegro if necessary.

This involves primarily rewriting the graphics and text read/write
functions, and video mode switch logic. If it is possible to use both
text and graphics modes like the DOS version, that would make
the port the simplest.

For a first cut I think we should avoid big global cleanups that
would make it difficult to keep the DOS medium model and 32 bit
version synched. But having said that, I have not had too much
trouble maintaining the non-integer version, even though it has
signficiant global differences.

Once we have a fully functioning 32 bit version, then we could
decide to make the 32 bit version the main version, and we could
start major global overhauls.

Of course this is only my opinion, and I can be talked into
changimng it by someone willing to do a lot of work . :-)

This sort of work happens when someone takes the initiative and
talks others into helping. There are no reliable rules for what makes
this work :-). For example, Robin wrote the evolver, but without
Jonathan's dogged integration efforts, it probably wouldn't have
made it on Robin's efforts alone.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) True Color Support
Date: 04 Mar 1999 23:50:16 -0600


> One possible way to provide true color support with an intermediate release
> without changing current Fractint code (add some code on instead) might be
> the following:

(good comments snipped)

I see no obstacle to adding truecolor support to Fractint now, even
with the medium model. I wanted to implement PNG first, but I am
now convinced that PNG has to wait for a flat memory model.

We can save truecolor images using Targa. The routines are
already in Fractint. Later we can dump Targa for PNG..

I would favor some of your suggestions that work generally, e.g.
Vepstas algorithm.

Compared to other possible projects, true color looks relatively
straight forward.

Tim



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (fractdev) 16->32 bit assembler
Date: 05 Mar 1999 11:48:31 -0300 (EST)

On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Tim Wegner wrote:

> I dunno what you mean by general plan, but I'd suggest this :-)

    Even not knowing what I meant you got preety much of the idea :-))))

    Yes that is the sort of thing (bellow), just to make my idea a bit
clearer I would add (from your comments) some "steps":

    1 - Make a first port to 32 bit fat emory model (Linux and DOS
probably):

> I'd like to see the current DOS fractint ported to LINUX (non-X) and
> djgpp using svgalib or Allegro if necessary.
>
> This involves primarily rewriting the graphics and text read/write
> functions, and video mode switch logic. If it is possible to use both
> text and graphics modes like the DOS version, that would make
> the port the simplest.
>
> For a first cut I think we should avoid big global cleanups that
> would make it difficult to keep the DOS medium model and 32 bit
> version synched. But having said that, I have not had too much
> trouble maintaining the non-integer version, even though it has
> signficiant global differences.

    1 (cont) - main points to evaluate/try: wich graphics library to use and
how to make the por the less disturbing possible for the rest of the code.

    2- Decide wich will be the next main version:

> Once we have a fully functioning 32 bit version, then we could
> decide to make the 32 bit version the main version, and we could
> start major global overhauls.

    Etc.

    3- Line up and star to put the large "peebles" in the soup:

    Like PNG and such.

    Also this is jus my opinion, but I'm trying to help the improving of
fractint, and to follow the "scratch your own itch" philosophy, I would like to
have a lot of space to experiment new stuff in Fractint without worryng too much
(call if a unix programming addiction, but I like it! :-)))

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Gilman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Xfractint synch
Date: 05 Mar 1999 15:27:51 -0800

>* ([e-mail]) coughed this up on 3/3/99 8:43 PM:
>I have uploaded the Xfractint source to the latest developer version
>1961 patch 65.

I've been working with p41, and I get problems when I hit the floating
point to arbitrary precision switch.  Is this a problem with the XFract
base, or did I hose something in my mad rush to get fractals onscreen on
the Mac?  I admit I've not done too much debugging of the problem, but
hey, it doesn't hurt to ask, right?

Ouch,
=- Tim Gilman

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Xfractint synch
Date: 06 Mar 1999 21:06:20 -0600

Tim Gilman asked:

> I've been working with p41, and I get problems when I hit the floating
> point to arbitrary precision switch.  Is this a problem with the XFract
> base, or did I hose something in my mad rush to get fractals onscreen on
> the Mac?  I admit I've not done too much debugging of the problem, but
> hey, it doesn't hurt to ask, right?

I'll check this out and let you know.

Jonathan Osuch has uploaded patch 66. I have put it in

ftp://ftp.phoenix.net/pub/USERS/twegner/1961p66.zip

This affects both DOS and Xfractint.

Both the evolver and the browser now work properly under Linux. I
think we have a reasonable base for a public beta. I will work on
putting a package together.

Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractdev) Re the path to 32 bits
Date: 09 Mar 1999 19:06:00 -0600

I am investigating the GIMP toolkit - GTK. Does anyone know
about this? It is a Linux-based toolkit that provides a higher-level
interface to X. There is a Windows port. See

http://www.gtk.org

This could be a way to get an portable open source GUI toolkit for
fractint. If we go this way, the first step would be to port Xfractint to
GTK, replace every X instrinsic with GTK. For starters, no real GUI
would be needed. We would follow the Xfractint style of using the
DOS interface. Then we could follow the example of the ancient
Winfract, which has both a Windows and a DOS-like interface.
Once we had everything working and stable, we could begin a
radical re-architecting.

Everyone agrees to post a public beta soon. Jonathan has another
patch planned and Robin said he would give us his sound docs
soon. I will take on consolidating the "What's New" and putting
together the packages.

Rich, did your autoconf efforts run into a snag, or did you not look
at it too deeply? Autoconf would be a great idea.

I think I need to switch from Slakware Linux to Red Hat unless
Slakware shows some evidence of not falling behind. On the other
hand, Slakware distributes Xfractint and Red Hat does not :-). But
we do need someone to use Red Hat because some folks report
not being able to compile on it. Maybe I'll get both on my system.
Jonathan Osuch is also using Slakware.

Tim



Tim


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Re the path to 32 bits
Date: 09 Mar 1999 19:24:22 -0600

Tim,

 - On the other hand, Slakware distributes Xfractint and Red Hat does
 - not :-).

I bet if you put together a Red Hat package containing a working version of
xfractint, you could talk them into distributing it. :) I've never messed
with Slackware, I must assume it uses some sort of package installation
method too? Red Hat is darn convenient here, because I can install a fresh
machine across the network using just two floppies. This has let us set up
several machines with the latest Red Hat 5.2 from our server, which we
don't have on CD. (Got 5.0 and 5.1 on CD, but not 5.2.)

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Humberto Rossetti Baptista <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Re the path to 32 bits
Date: 10 Mar 1999 18:21:21 -0300 (EST)

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Tim Wegner wrote:

> I am investigating the GIMP toolkit - GTK. Does anyone know
> about this? It is a Linux-based toolkit that provides a higher-level
> interface to X. There is a Windows port. See

    Hi I've checked the GTK+ and it seems interesting, I saw some support
for Win32 systems already on version 1.2, but the full stuff is ath the authors'
page http://user.sgic.fi/~tml/gimp/win32/ Note that this is still experimental
and the support for 256 color mode isn't optimal yet.

    I'm not sure if this would help or introduce another layer of complexity
in the port to 32bit. Any coder had any experience w/ GTK+ or Allegro (or
SVGAlib in both DOS and Linux)????

> Everyone agrees to post a public beta soon. Jonathan has another

    Count me in :-))

> I think I need to switch from Slakware Linux to Red Hat unless
> Slakware shows some evidence of not falling behind. On the other
> hand, Slakware distributes Xfractint and Red Hat does not :-). But
> we do need someone to use Red Hat because some folks report
> not being able to compile on it. Maybe I'll get both on my system.
> Jonathan Osuch is also using Slakware.

    I agree to the message posted in reply to Tim's: if we have a RPM
(package inr the redhat package format) it is conceivable thar the people in
RedHat would include it in the distribution (also we can register it in the RPM
application list to bedounloades and user bu lots of RedHat users).

    I think I can package a source and an Intel binary version of XFractint.
I'll try this later this week and if things go weel I'll convince someone with
an Alpha Linux to land me some compiling time to try this too.

    []'s

    Humberto R. Baptista
    [e-mail]

Insite - Solucoes Internet                         http://www.insite.com.br




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Re the path to 32 bits
Date: 10 Mar 1999 19:10:58 -0700


In article <[e-mail]>,
    "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>  writes:
> I am investigating the GIMP toolkit - GTK. Does anyone know
> about this? It is a Linux-based toolkit that provides a higher-level
> interface to X. There is a Windows port.

There is one, or they are working on one?  I just read the
introduction section and it mentions work on such a port, but doesn't
claim its existence yet.

> This could be a way to get an portable open source GUI toolkit for
> fractint. If we go this way, the first step would be to port Xfractint to
> GTK, replace every X instrinsic with GTK. For starters, no real GUI
> would be needed. We would follow the Xfractint style of using the
> DOS interface. Then we could follow the example of the ancient
> Winfract, which has both a Windows and a DOS-like interface.
> Once we had everything working and stable, we could begin a
> radical re-architecting.

Umm... I think you just descrived a minor re-architecting. :-)

> Rich, did your autoconf efforts run into a snag, or did you not look
> at it too deeply? Autoconf would be a great idea.

I'm on the learning curve on autoconf.  However, from what I have read
about autoconf it will handle everything that is required for unixish
environments.  It does depend on having a /bin/sh compatible shell in
order to invoke the configuration script.  One can obtain this with
the cygwin32 environment's bash script.  I'm not sure if there's a way
to get it to handle a DOS environment without an sh compatible shell.

At this point, I've got another project on the front burner, but the
immediate plans are to: download DJGPP/SVGAlib and get a minimal
32-bit version going.
--
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/>    Legalize Adulthood!
    ``Ain't it funny that they all fire the pistol,
      at the wrong end of the race?''--PDBT
[e-mail]    <http://www.eden.com/~thewho>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Re the path to 32 bits
Date: 10 Mar 1999 21:18:04 -0600

Phil aka Rich asked:

> There is one, or they are working on one?  I just read the
> introduction section and it mentions work on such a port, but doesn't
> claim its existence yet.

Check out:

http://user.sgic.fi/~tml/gimp/win32/

> I'm on the learning curve on autoconf.  However, from what I have read
> about autoconf it will handle everything that is required for unixish
> environments.  It does depend on having a /bin/sh compatible shell in
> order to invoke the configuration script.  One can obtain this with
> the cygwin32 environment's bash script.  I'm not sure if there's a way
> to get it to handle a DOS environment without an sh compatible shell.

I'm not worried about DOS at this point, I guess, just UNIX-like.

> At this point, I've got another project on the front burner, but the
> immediate plans are to: download DJGPP/SVGAlib and get a minimal
> 32-bit version going.

That's still appropriate.

Tim



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Hailman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Re the path to 32 bits
Date: 10 Mar 1999 22:44:48 -0500

My copy of RedHat 4.2 came with an extra Cd, of contributed files, and
amonst otherthings was an old version of Xfractint (probably the current
one at the time of release, I didn't get in to Fractint until after I got
the CD), i think equivalent to DOS 19.2.

At 07:24 PM 09/03/99 -0600, Damien M. Jones wrote:
>Tim,
>
> - On the other hand, Slakware distributes Xfractint and Red Hat does
> - not :-).
>
>I bet if you put together a Red Hat package containing a working version of
>xfractint, you could talk them into distributing it. :) I've never messed
>with Slackware, I must assume it uses some sort of package installation
>method too? Red Hat is darn convenient here, because I can install a fresh
>machine across the network using just two floppies. This has let us set up
>several machines with the latest Red Hat 5.2 from our server, which we
>don't have on CD. (Got 5.0 and 5.1 on CD, but not 5.2.)
>
>Damien M. Jones   \\
>[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
>                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/
>
>Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
>in a newsgroup.  Thank you.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
>Post Message:   [e-mail]
>Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
>Administrator:  [e-mail]
>Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
>
>
Robert H=E4lman=20
=CFCQ: 166848=20
[e-mail]
-----
P=EBs, luv =E3nd eksesiv drug =FCs.
"=CF'm st=E3rting a v=F6r f=F6r p=EBs."

=C3=C4=CB=CF=D5=D6=DC=E3=E4=EB=EF=F5=F6=FC=D1=F1

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Re the path to 32 bits
Date: 11 Mar 1999 10:22:54 -0600

Robert,

 - My copy of RedHat 4.2 came with an extra Cd, of contributed files, and
 - amonst otherthings was an old version of Xfractint

(laugh) Well, you can tell I don't use RedHat as a desktop OS, can't you?
:) All the server apps I wanted were on the first CD, so I never got around
to looking at the second one. (RedHat 5.2 comes with *three* CDs, believe
it or not.)

 - =CFCQ: 166848=20

Da-hurn! What an uncommonly low number.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/

Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
in a newsgroup.  Thank you.

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From: Robert Hailman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractdev) Re the path to 32 bits
Date: 11 Mar 1999 13:39:07 -0500

Sweet...

I haven't gotten around to upgrading to 5.2, I have had no need for it yet.

At 10:22 AM 11/03/99 -0600, Damien M. Jones wrote:
>Robert,
>
> - My copy of RedHat 4.2 came with an extra Cd, of contributed files, and
> - amonst otherthings was an old version of Xfractint
>
>(laugh) Well, you can tell I don't use RedHat as a desktop OS, can't you?
>:) All the server apps I wanted were on the first CD, so I never got around
>to looking at the second one. (RedHat 5.2 comes with *three* CDs, believe
>it or not.)
>
> - =CFCQ: 166848=20
>
>Da-hurn! What an uncommonly low number.
>
Oops, it's actually 1668484... still pretty low, I've been on since August=
=20
'97. Thanks for pointing that out.

>Damien M. Jones   \\
>[e-mail]  \\  Fractalus Galleries & Info:
>                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/
>
>Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or
>in a newsgroup.  Thank you.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for using Fractdev, The Fractint Developer's Discussion List
>Post Message:   [e-mail]
>Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
>Administrator:  [e-mail]
>Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractdev"
>
>
Robert H=E4lman=20
=CFCQ: 1668484=20
[e-mail]
-----
P=EBs, luv =E3nd eksesiv drug =FCs.
"=CF'm st=E3rting a v=F6r f=F6r p=EBs."

=C3=C4=CB=CF=D5=D6=DC=E3=E4=EB=EF=F5=F6=FC=D1=F1

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