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exotica-digest         Tuesday, March 7 2000         Volume 02 : Number 643



In This Digest:

(exotica) Friendly Persuasion - Week of 03/06
(exotica) F&T!
(exotica) Screamin Jay in TJ
Re: (exotica) Great News!!!!!
(exotica) Re: exotica-digest V2 #642
(exotica) What is Tiki music? (was: Exotica issues)
(exotica) I'll Drink to That!
Re: (exotica) Exotica Issues
Re:  (exotica) Screamin Jay in TJ
Re:  (exotica) What is Tiki music? (was: Exotica issues)
Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)
Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)
(exotica) Mystery Tune???
(exotica) Karla Pundit......
(exotica) place your hands on your head and step away from the computer
(exotica) RIAA (was put your hands on your head...)
Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)
Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)
Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)
Re: (exotica) Mystery Tune???
Re: (exotica) Mystery Tune???
Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)
(exotica) Bruce, can I borrow your Theremin?
Re:  Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)
Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)
(exotica) Is this considered Exotica? (humor)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:46:12 -0800
From: "Mr. Fodder" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Friendly Persuasion - Week of 03/06

Week of 03/06/00

The Friendly Persuasion Show

Cool and Strange Music Magazine's weekly radio show on Antenna Internet
Radio.
http://www.antennaradio.com/punk/friendlypersuasion/index.htm

Get your RealAudio player ready and tune in anytime during this week to
hear:

1.  The Peanuts - Tintarella Di Luna
2.  Mrs. Miller - These Boots Are Made For Walkin'
3.  Bambi & The Boys - Double Agent Double D
4.  Big Mess Orchestra - More Than a Feeling
5.  Julie London - Yummy, Yummy, Yummy
6.  Charles Wilp - Close-Up
7.  Bette Davis - Turn Me Loose On Broadway
8.  Jean Jacques-Perrey - Gossipo Perpetuo
9.  The Arrogant Worms - Great to be a Nerd
10.  Big Mess Orchestra - Smoke on the Water
11.  Jean Nidetch - The Magic of Weight Watchers (song #1)
12.  Tom Jones - Looking Out My Window
13.  Screamin' Jay Hawkins - I Put a Spell On You
14.  Jimmy Durante - Were Going UFO'ing
15.  Jean Nidetch - The Magic of Weight Watchers (song #2)
16.  Miki Obat A & The Outcast - Jane, Jane
17.  Martin Denny with the Randy Horne Singers - Mumba!
18.  The Polynesians - Tahitian Festival
19.  Free Design - Kites are Fun
20.  Paul Frees & The Poster People - The Look of Love (Boris Karloff)
21.  Buck Ritchey - The Slave
22.  Mother Goose with a Beatle Beat - Old King Cole
23.  Victor Lundberg - An Open Letter To My Teenage Son
24.  Brandon Wade - Letter From a Teenage Son
25.  Claudine Longet - Golden Slumbers


Chow,

Otis

- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Otis F-Odder
[e-mail]
www.thebranflakes.com
Box 21104, Seattle, WA 98111 USA
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Cool & Strange Music Magazine - www.coolandstrange.com
Antenna Internet Radio - www.antennaradio.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:54:12 +1100
From: "Keith E. Lo Bue" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) F&T!

I've forwarded (some!) of your comments on to Scott, and we'll powwow soon
about the F&T site.  Thanks for all of your input!!!!

Keith

****************************
http://www.lobue-art.com
A virtual gallery and info
site for the artwork and
workshops of KEITH E. LO BUE
****************************



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 19:45:57 -0800
From: Jim Gerwitz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Screamin Jay in TJ

Fathered "roughly" 57 kids? So that's why they called him Screamin Jay.
Sounds like a good question for "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" Check
out his last film appearance in "Dance with the Devil" (aka Perdita
Durango). A small role as buddy to Santeria priest/maniacal killer
Javier "Romeo" Barden. This movie will be a cult classic - pounding
border music with Rosie Perez and Romeo lowriding through Tijuana
bopping to the TJB's "Spanish Flea" as they look for someone to kidnap
and murder in a blood ceremony. Pre-Sopranos James Gandolfini is a cop
who acts like Tony S. when he's being good and taking his Prozac.  Jay
helps out with the chickens in the big Santeria ritual scene, but does
look a bit tired. No wonder....Unrated DVD highly recommended.
And I have a CD that skips during his "Constipation Blues,"  no shit....


Little Jimmy Hawkins, #23 son


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 22:53:25 -0500
From: Ross 'Mambo Frenzy' Orr <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Great News!!!!!

Keith wrote:

>I'd like to ask any of you who dig the Grand Twins of the Twin Grands what
>you'd love to see on the site...

Don't neglect the "late" F&T!!

_Classical Disco_ is right up there in my personal Top Twenty.

And you really will need their amazing cover photos from _Star Wars_.
Yow, where did they get those outfits? (Not to mention the bad
toupees.)

Happy to scan if needed.

cheers,
  --Ross

|| Ross "Mambo Frenzy" Orr  <[e-mail]>
|| Ann Arbor, Michigan USA


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:49:02 +1100
From: "Keith E. Lo Bue" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Re: exotica-digest V2 #642

>The definition as
>it now stands does NOT take in everything that people have so far said is
>within the realm of Exotica (school band records being a prime example).
>
>Regards,
>- --bj

If this list was Exotica Proper, and nothing but, there's absolutely NO WAY
I'd be staying on the list....it's eclecticism matches my own and that's why
I cherish it!

Keith

****************************
http://www.lobue-art.com
A virtual gallery and info
site for the artwork and
workshops of KEITH E. LO BUE
****************************



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 11:17:33 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) What is Tiki music? (was: Exotica issues)

B.J. Major wrote:

> >Tiki: What is Tiki music?
>
> I'm sure the people into Tiki music can answer that for you.

I don't think so. Let's check it out! So, people:

WHAT IS TIKI MUSIC?

Mo



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 06:57:38
From: Brad Bigelow <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) I'll Drink to That!

I'm assembling a list of cocktail-related tunes and albums for a new
listener's guide page on the Space Age Pop website--things like "Cugie's
Cocktails," Pete Candoli's "Moscow Mule and Many More Kicks," where all the
tunes are named for some kind of drink.

Any suggestions list members want to offer will be greatly appreciated ...
hic!

Brad


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 08:47:00 -0500
From: Nat Kone <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Exotica Issues

At 09:33 AM 3/6/00 -0800, B.J. Major wrote:
>
> Jazz means one thing and one thing only to me--improvisation.

Well maybe that's the problem.  Or the tip of the iceberg anyway.
When I first got into jazz, on my way to becoming a huge jazz snob, my jazz
musician friends said something similar to what you're saying.
I liked the idea that it was true but I never quite believed it.
Jazz is not all about improvisation.
Not even bebop, which is more about improvisation, is ALL about improvisation.

But if that's how you see it, that might explain why we're having
difficulty coming up with an agreement on what constitutes exotica.

I believe that most of the musicians who created exotica, saw themselves a
jazz musicians.  It's probably true that they saw themselves more in the
jazz tradition of Duke Ellington than that of Charlie Parker.  It's also
probably true that many of them would have had difficulty being accepted as
jazz musicians.  They just didn't have the chops.
But just because they couldn't cut it as jazz musicians, doesn't change the
fact that for many of them, their training and background was in jazz.
This might be more true for "lounge" and/or "space age bachelor pad music"
but I tend to believe that it extends to exotica.
I'm sure Martin Denny and his band saw themselves as jazz musicians and
though I can't be quite so sure for Les Baxter, I suspect he saw himself
as, at the very least, a jazz arranger.
And the very fact that there is such a thing as a jazz arranger,
contributes to my feeling that jazz is not all about improvisation.

Putting that all aside, if you don't want to split hairs, don't.  But I
think that a discussion - or even an argument - about what constitutes
exotica is entirely appropriate for a list like this one.
I say the Baja Marimba Band is close enough to exotica to at least merit a
mention in a list of "exotica-related" musicians.  (I also say the same
thing about Los Indios Tabajaras by the way.  And Santo and Johnny too.)

I don't think exotica means all the music that everyone else ignores.  I
think that's not a bad explanation for what this list is about but this
list is not just about exotica.

Nat






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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:35:49 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  (exotica) Screamin Jay in TJ

In a message dated 3/6/0 10:47:42 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>Fathered "roughly" 57 kids? So that's why they called him Screamin Jay.
>Sounds like a good question for "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?"

Reminds me of a legendary student Romeo from the highschool where I teach.
His name was Sherman. They call him "Sherm The Sperm". He never did learn to
add or subtract, but he sure could multiply...JB/true story


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:37:18 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  (exotica) What is Tiki music? (was: Exotica issues)

In a message dated 3/7/0 5:21:09 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

>WHAT IS TIKI MUSIC?

The sound of two tikis knockin' boots 'round midnight...JB


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 00 10:16:47 -0800
From: "B.J. Major" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)

>At 09:33 AM 3/6/00 -0800, B.J. Major wrote:
>>
>> Jazz means one thing and one thing only to me--improvisation.
>
>Well maybe that's the problem.  Or the tip of the iceberg anyway.
>When I first got into jazz, on my way to becoming a huge jazz snob, my jazz
>musician friends said something similar to what you're saying.
>I liked the idea that it was true but I never quite believed it.
>Jazz is not all about improvisation.

Then please enlighten us ALL and favor us with what your complete
definition of jazz is.  If the music in question does not include
improvisation on a melody, it's simply not jazz, period.  I don't want to
be a snob about this myself, but I was a music major in college and I am
very familiar with the definition of different forms of music and what
constitutes them.  If your jazz musician friends were telling you what
I'm telling you (i.e., the same thing), there must be a reason for that!

>It's also
>probably true that many of them would have had difficulty being accepted as
>jazz musicians.  They just didn't have the chops.

I found out a long time ago that "people who just don't have the chops"
can't survive in the jazz world, period.  No way, no how.  You must be
able to improvise and do it fluently.  So you can't call these people
"jazz musicians" in that sense, because they left jazz/didn't go into
jazz (because of their lack of chops) and went off and did something else
(create Exotica).  It's no shame, there are plenty of good solid
musicians out there who are well trained in music, play their respective
instruments as pros, but cannot improvise.  It's a special gift to be
able to do that (AFAIC), just as all musicians are not all composers,
arrangers, or those who can simply play by ear.

>And the very fact that there is such a thing as a jazz arranger,
>contributes to my feeling that jazz is not all about improvisation.

A jazz arranger can lay out a piece for a group to play, but I assure you
that the improvisation part is NOT charted.  It's left blank, sometimes
with an indication of how many bars for the soloist to play, sometimes
not.  When the improv is over, reading the arrangement on the charts
resumes.

> But I
>think that a discussion - or even an argument - about what constitutes
>exotica is entirely appropriate for a list like this one.

If even two people can't agree on what constitutes Exotica, no conclusion
will be reached and Exotica will just remain undefined.  Which might be
ok for some people but not for others.  Personally, I don't see why a
category of music like Exotica has to/should contain almost 'everything
but the kitchen sink'.

Regards,
- --bj
The Walter Wanderley Pictorial Discography:
http://members.xoom.com/bjbear71/Wanderley/main.html
http://bjbear3.freeservers.com/Wanderley/main.html


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:30:31 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)

John Tesh was being interviewed and he said something to the effect of' "If
you play it right it's music and if you make a mistake you call it Jazz" (And
he can't figure out why people hate him).

Also coming out of the fog in my brain is the story about a famous jazz
musician who was asked, "What is Jazz?" and he replied, "If you've got to
ask, you'll never know".



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:05:41 -0500
From: "Nathan Miner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Mystery Tune???

Please tune in to the following link and click on "Break Beats."

The very first song is listed as Buscemi's "Yves Eaux" but the tune sounds =
different here than on the Amazon site where you can hear a 30 sec. clip =
of that same song.

This' a great song with phone sex dialog looped over the rhythms.....

Who is that band?

- - Nate




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:07:36 -0500
From: "Nathan Miner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Karla Pundit......

Is that CD "Journey to the Ancient City" a full-length (60 or so minutes) =
recording??  There's only like 6-7 songs listed.........

- - Nate




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:45:40 -0500
From: "m.ace" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) place your hands on your head and step away from the computer

A friendly, but stern lecture from our pals at the RIAA:

http://www.riaa.com/tech/tech_ht.htm##_top

No mention that the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (already passed, slowly
blossoming its scary implications) may eventually rollback our rights to
analog copying also.


m.ace  [e-mail]
OOK   http://www.voicenet.com/~ecam/


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 00 14:05:26 -0800
From: "B.J. Major" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) RIAA (was put your hands on your head...)

>A friendly, but stern lecture from our pals at the RIAA:
>
>http://www.riaa.com/tech/tech_ht.htm##_top
>
>No mention that the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (already passed, slowly
>blossoming its scary implications) may eventually rollback our rights to
>analog copying also.

I am all for having people get paid for their work and I have never
attempted to sell a "copy" of anything, but only the original.  So this
part of the RIAA site particularly annoyed me:

>Second, again for your personal use, you can make some digital copies of
>music, depending on the type of digital recorder used. For example,
>digitally copying music is generally allowed with mini-disc recorders,
>digital audio tape (DAT) recorders, digital cassette tape recorders and
>some (but not all) compact disc recorders (or CD-R recorders). As a
>general rule for CD-Rs, if the CD-R recorder is a stand-alone machine
>designed to copy primarily audio, rather than data or video, then the
>copying is allowed. If the CD-R recorder is a computer component, or a
>computer peripheral device designed to be a multi-purpose recorder (in
>other words, if it will record data and video as well as audio), then
>copying is not allowed.

No one told me when I got my CD-R for my computer that I was not
"allowed" to burn CDs of my home LP library (that have never seen the
light of day on CD release themselves).

And the paragraph that follows this is supposed to make people gleefully
purchase stand-alone machines that connect to one's home stereo.  But
there is hidden cost in those machines to cover the "royalties"
mentioned; i.e., those blank "audio only" CD-Rs cost anywhere from $2 to
$7.00 A PIECE more than CD-R blanks for a computer system.

Having to pay a combined fee of over $700.00 per year to ASCAP & BMI for
mp3 file hosting is already a huge sum of money for anyone who runs a
not-for-profit site that was created with their own materials and
maintained in their own spare time.  Now to know that I can't legally
make CD-Rs of my LP collection on my computer is but the icing on the
cake...

In the words of Charlie Brown, "Good grief!..."

Regards,
- --bj
The Walter Wanderley Pictorial Discography:
http://members.xoom.com/bjbear71/Wanderley/main.html
http://bjbear3.freeservers.com/Wanderley/main.html


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 17:46:28 -0500
From: Nat Kone <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)

At 10:16 AM 3/7/00 -0800, B.J. Major wrote:
>
>Then please enlighten us ALL and favor us with what your complete
>definition of jazz is.  If the music in question does not include
>improvisation on a melody, it's simply not jazz, period.

(Hey this discussion is not closed to the two of us and I'm not going to
take it offlist!)

If a musician tells me they never play a song the same way twice - and many
have - I recognize that as a form of improvisation but not the highest form.
Improvisation occurs in all kinds of music.  The question is whether that
improvisation defines the music or is simply an aspect of it.  Some jazz is
more defined by improvisation and some is less defined by it.
When I hear a band like Ellington's playing an arranged tune, the music is
not defined by the solos a few members take.  And it's not defined by the
"liberties" some musicians may take with their assigned parts.
I like all that.  And I listen to a fair bit of jazz with less structure,
less arrangement and more improvisation.
But when I listen to jazz, I'm in the mood for a certain spirit, a certain
sound, a certain approach to harmony and arrangement and rhythm, none of
which I can actually speak of in musical terms.  But I think I recognize it
when I hear it.
If you want to tell me that the spirit of improvisation was a central
factor in the creation of this music and that the influence is discernible
even when precious little improvisation is occurring, I'll accept that.
But that's a far cry from accepting that improvisation is what defines jazz.

Once upon a time I was a rock and folk and blues guy.  Then I started to
listen to jazz.  I think that one of the ways that I made the transition
was that I was one of those guys who liked those long long rock solos -
except bass solos of course - and this was like the greatest "solo-taking"
music ever .
At first I may have been there for a certain vibe that seems to come with
heavily improvised music.  And I listened to a very narrow category of
jazz.  Mostly Coltrane and stuff that reminded me of Coltrane.
But then I'd be at someone's house and they'd be playing a vocal version of
"You don't know what love is" and I'd think "Hey I know this tune".
And gradually I realized that I may have come for the improv but in the
meantime, I'd developed a taste for a whole bunch of classic tunes.
And little by little, I realized that I could enjoy those tunes and others,
with or without the soloing or improvisation.
This was the beginning of my ever-expanding taste for instrumental music.
The only obstacle left to conquer was developing an appreciation of
arrangement and an ability to enjoy that, with or without overt soloing.
When that happened, the floodgates burst and they're still bursting.

What does this have to do with anything?  I'm not sure.
But the way I look at instrumental music, there are basically two kinds.
Light jazz and light classical.  (I'm not sure where I'd include "pop" and
don't ask me where polka comes in.)
Dick Hyman for instance, was a bona fide jazz musician who shows up on a
surprising number of "real jazz" records.  I wouldn't call his organ
records on Command, "jazz" but I hear the jazz roots in them.
I hear jazz in "lounge".  I hear it in "Western Swing" too.
When I was a bebop snob, I hated "big band" music.  And I still don't love
it.  But I listen to music all the time that basically fits that category.
And maybe I still have a problem calling it "jazz" but I know that there's
jazz in there somewhere.
Same with Martin Denny.  Same goes twice over for Arthur Lyman.

As far as what constitutes "exotica" - as opposed to what this list covers
- - I think Moritz said it pretty well when he talked about a dream of
faraway places.  Or at least I think that's what he said.
A dream of faraway places where life is simpler, even a bit more
"primitive".  A place where people are more "real".  A place to escape the
"hustle and bustle" and just listen to the wind in the trees.
But exotica, to me, is not really all that.  It's music that "suggests" all
that.  It's someone's VERSION of all that.
That's what I like about it.  The interpretation going on.  The attempt -
which to me is almost by definition, unsuccessful - to combine that with
"western" forms like jazz and pop.
That's the same reason I like "psychedelic" music, especially bad
psychedelic music.
I hear it in the Baja Marimba Band.  I'm in Mexico hiding out with Billy
the Kid or the men of the Magnificent Seven and we're drinking and whoring
and kicking back and enjoying the simple pleasures of a place where life is
cheap, your "girlfriend" looks like Rita Coolidge and every moment you're
wondering if she's going to cut your throat as you sleep.

Nat



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 17:55:39 -0500
From: Mark Renwick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)

BJ and others,

If someone transcribes to paper a recording of a jazz solo
and then performs the solo so well that no one can tell that

it's not being improvised on the spot, is that jazz?  It
sounds like jazz, but it's not being improvised.  Does the
word "jazz" denote the style of music or the means of
production (e.g., improvization vs. reading)?

- --Mark Renwick
  Jacksonville, Florida, USA
  [e-mail]
  http://home.att.net/~tibia




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 00 15:54:24 -0800
From: "B.J. Major" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)

>BJ and others,
>
>If someone transcribes to paper a recording of a jazz solo
>and then performs the solo so well that no one can tell that
>
>it's not being improvised on the spot, is that jazz?  It
>sounds like jazz, but it's not being improvised.  Does the
>word "jazz" denote the style of music or the means of
>production (e.g., improvization vs. reading)?
>
>--Mark Renwick
>  Jacksonville, Florida, USA
>  [e-mail]
>  http://home.att.net/~tibia

Mark:  as you can see, people's opinions on this vary, but from what I
was taught, "what is" jazz is not found on transcribed "notes on a page"
(to quote Mr. Holland's Opus).  It's the improvisational creation on the
spur of the moment around the melody and (sometimes unfortunately)
there's no limit to how long it can go on.  While it's probably happened
lots of times that an improvised solo was so popular it was "copied" an
another performance by another musician, that in and of itself doesn't
constitute the essence of jazz because the newer musician didn't create
the solo himself.

So, to answer your last question, I was taught that jazz denotes the
means of production (i.e., improvising).

Regards,
- --bj
The Walter Wanderley Pictorial Discography:
http://members.xoom.com/bjbear71/Wanderley/main.html
http://bjbear3.freeservers.com/Wanderley/main.html


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Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:49:18 -0500
From: cheryl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Mystery Tune???

Nathan Miner wrote:
>
> Please tune in to the following link and click on "Break Beats."

Where's the link??  I want to hear this piece!

cheryl


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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:54:23 -0500
From: "Br. Cleve" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Mystery Tune???

At 3:05 PM -0500 3/7/00, Nathan Miner wrote:
>Please tune in to the following link and click on "Break Beats."
>
>The very first song is listed as Buscemi's "Yves Eaux" but the tune sounds
>different here than on the Amazon site where you can hear a 30 sec. clip
>of that same song.
>
>This' a great song with phone sex dialog looped over the rhythms.....
>
>Who is that band?

You answered it yourself - the "band" is called Buscemi; they're (he's)
from Belgium. 1 album out, 3 12" singles. Almost all the tracks on the
singles, including "Yves Eaux", are on the album. The stuff ranges from
dreamy trip hop to slamming jungle to.....uh, I hate to bring it up now,
jazz.


Speaking of jazz - -  at the weekly electronic music event that I host
called "Solaris", we often have a form of electronic music known as 'Live
P.A.'. When these artists appear, they perform live electronic dance music,
be it techno or trance or d 'n b or house or whathaveyou. They bring down
synthesizers, both analog and digital, drum machines, power books, mixers,
etc,.......and then they instantaneously create electronic music. For the
most part, it is improvised. Does this make it jazz? What about the new
wave of electronic jazz artists, mostly coming out of Germany these days,
such as Jazzanova, Rainer Truby Trio, Da Lata, et al, or the digital bossa
novas of Fantastic Plastic Machine, Balanco, Nicole Conte, Montefiori
Cocktail and others?

In the United States these days, the definition of jazz is a style of music
played in expensive clubs to overeducated (mostly white) audiences who
listen to too much NPR. It has lost touch with its roots - it was born as
dance music, in honky tonks, turpentine farms, and bordellos. When it got
funky in the late '60's (and went back to being dance music in nightclubs),
it's new style was rejected by the jazz establishment (those records now
command top dollar, but only after being rediscovered by the Acid Jazz
scenesters in Britain a decade or so ago). Ah, but don't start
me.............

My point is that what is termed jazz is an ever changing form, just like
rock has been for the last 50 years (if someone can show me the
similarities between, say, Everlast and Chuck Berry, I'd love to hear it).
You just have to look at the various roots. The majority of SABP artists,
for example, came out of the big band era (don't forget, Esquivel's records
were made with 26 pieces - - that's a big band!). Nat made an excellent
correlation between Denny and George Shearing which was right on the money.
I guess the roots of that would be the cocktail lounge jazz of the 30's and
40's, itself  a more compact unit of the 'sweet band' sound of the 20's
(i.e. Paul Whiteman, Guy Lombardo - - who in turn begat Montovani, Lawrence
Welk, etc etc). Dick Hyman wailing away for 16 measures of  "The
Liquidator" is as much jazz as is Coltrane blowing 128 measures of 'My
Favorite Things'. There are modal scales applied in both, variations on a
theme, upper structured triads, 9ths 11ths 13ths, etc etc etc..............

Sweet, swing, western swing, bop, hard bop, post bop, fusion, west coast,
crime, funk, latin, brazillian, boogie woogie, free, smoov,
acid........yeah, it's a lot of things. It's King Oliver and Henry Mancini,
Charles Mingus and Wynton Marsalis,  Albert Ayler and Kenny G.

btw, check out the new album by Luke Vibert and BJ Cole - "Stop The Panic"
(Astralwerks), for some real cross pollination. A mix of synths, loops and
samples with steel guitars, fiddles, mandolins, sort of a hybrid of hip hop
with western swing and bluegrass. I can only use 1 word to describe it:
Exotic!

cheers,
br cleve, berklee collidge of music dropout


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Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 02:08:02 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)

B.J. Major wrote:

>Jazz means one thing and one thing only to me--improvisation.
 >If the music in question does not include improvisation on a melody, it's
simply not jazz,
>period.
>A jazz arranger can lay out a piece for a group to play, but I assure you
>that the improvisation part is NOT charted.  It's left blank, sometimes
>with an indication of how many bars for the soloist to play, sometimes
>not.  When the improv is over, reading the arrangement on the charts
>resumes.

 I just started to read Joachim-Ernst Berendt's 'Jazzbook' (the guy who died
recently) and he says a very similar thing. He also claims, it is the common
way to define Jazz. He calls improvisation a basic element of Jazz; but he also
talks about a type of musicians who live intensly in their times and very much
reflect life as they feel it in their music. Although white musicians have been
in Jazz from the early days on, there is a specific basic black element that I
cannot seperate from my imagination of Jazz. We talked about a similar subject
some weeks ago during a thread about Pop and I think it was Brian Phillips who
spoke of two parties of music listeners, the
"can't-seperate-pop-from-racial-issues's" and the "yes-you-can's". After seeing
this documentary about the literal war that the US government had waged against
the black panthers (and other dissidents) I think I know what Brian meant. If
you knew some things, you could not anymore pretend you're innocent. And at
least until the 70s I believe these issues were still vital. At exactely about
the time when the afroamericans got substantially more rights in society
finally, the decline of Jazz started, at least that's what I think. Why I'm
saying this? Because I think there are no mono-causal definitions neither for
Pop, nor Jazz, nor Exotica. And of course there are no sharp lines seperating
music styles from one another.

Nat Kone wrote:

> But when I listen to jazz, I'm in the mood for a certain spirit, a certain
> sound, a certain approach to harmony and arrangement and rhythm, none of
> which I can actually speak of in musical terms.  But I think I recognize it
> when I hear it.
> If you want to tell me that the spirit of improvisation was a central
> factor in the creation of this music and that the influence is discernible
> even when precious little improvisation is occurring, I'll accept that.

I guess, wether by improvisation, or by arrangement, the expression of Jazz had
to be just right. It reflected the state of life at any given moment. When the
fight increased, free form increased, the music became more dissonant, as in
resisting to entertain, being uncomfortable, and so on.

> A dream of faraway places where life is simpler, even a bit more
> "primitive".  A place where people are more "real".  A place to escape the
> "hustle and bustle" and just listen to the wind in the trees.

Exactely. Somehow I see 'real' jazz, as opposed to Exotica, more on the "fight
for a better life" side. But there certainly were very romantic things too and
those point directly into the exotica direction. I mean, still, even if you
were performing romantic feelings, it makes a difference, wether you knew hard
times with no place for romanticism or wether you were used to freedoms and
wealth all the time, because you were priviliged. In that case you were a
perfect victim for a music that more or less emotionless repeated standardised
patterns. The latter is what makes a lot of easy listening stuff unenjoyable to
me, even if it is perfectly arranged. The perfection turns into something you
mistrust, an all-too-persuasive lie. You could say, there is no jazz in it.

> But exotica, to me, is not really all that.  It's music that "suggests" all
> that.  It's someone's VERSION of all that.
> That's what I like about it.  The interpretation going on.  The attempt -
> which to me is almost by definition, unsuccessful - to combine that with
> "western" forms like jazz and pop.

Yeah, sounds like a definition of "camp" to me... Don't you find diverse
interpretations of the genre in all styles? That's not a typical thing for
Exotica. It's in Jazz, it's in Rock. Maybe it even was in classical music and
we just don't know it anymore. The question is: What is the notion of the
referring genre? Is there something like a common dream in Jazz? In Rock it
would be something like 'power'. In Exotica maybe the paradise. A paradise for
those who could afford it; for those who had to fight, Exotica may have been a
ridiculous kind of escapism and giving up yourself.

> That's the same reason I like "psychedelic" music, especially bad
> psychedelic music.
> I hear it in the Baja Marimba Band.  I'm in Mexico hiding out with Billy
> the Kid or the men of the Magnificent Seven and we're drinking and whoring
> and kicking back and enjoying the simple pleasures of a place where life is
> cheap, your "girlfriend" looks like Rita Coolidge and every moment you're
> wondering if she's going to cut your throat as you sleep.

That's your dream, isn't it?

Mo



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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:09:53 -0800
From: "Ron Grandia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Bruce, can I borrow your Theremin?

Our own Bruce Lenkei is the winner of Luxuriamusic.com's Theremin giveaway.

OoooEEEeoooooOOOOOO!

Ron


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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:19:38 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)

In a message dated 3/7/0 5:56:20 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>If someone transcribes to paper a recording of a jazz solo
>and then performs the solo so well that no one can tell that
>it's not being improvised on the spot, is that jazz?

That's what Supersax did...Transcribed Charlie Parker solos, harmonized the
parts and sang 'em...JB


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Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 21:36:26 -0500
From: Mark Renwick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) What is Jazz? (was Exotica issues)

> While it's probably happened
> lots of times that an improvised solo was so popular it was "copied" an
> another performance by another musician, that in and of itself doesn't
> constitute the essence of jazz because the newer musician didn't create
> the solo himself.
>
So perhaps we can say that the recreated solo is not jazz,
itself, but that it is "jazzy" or in a jazz style.  I'm a
theatre organist by avocation, and I play some jazzy
arrangements of my own concoction.  But I'm the first to say
I'm NOT a jazz organist, because I can't improvise very well
on the spot.

I think we can draw a distinction between jazz and jazz
style.

- --Mark Renwick
  Jacksonville, Florida, USA
  [e-mail]
  http://home.att.net/~tibia




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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 00 19:57:21 -0800
From: "B.J. Major" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Is this considered Exotica? (humor)

Anyone who is ready for a good laugh right about now, go to this site:

Jammin' Johns Toilet Seats:

http://www.leeps.com/jammin.htm

As the site says:  "It's More Than Just Bathroom Humor. It's Music to
Your Rear!"

- --bj


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End of exotica-digest V2 #643
*****************************