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exotica-digest        Tuesday, January 18 2000        Volume 02 : Number 601



In This Digest:

Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing
(exotica) Re: Paris record stores
Re: (exotica) New Releases (Uri Geller, Stockhausen)
(exotica) URIPEEWEE and Cut-em-Up Rage
Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing
(exotica) Friendly Persuasion - Week of 1/17
Re:  Re: (exotica) Bono?
Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing
Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing
(exotica) WFMU Stream Update #1
(exotica) New items on site!
Re: (exotica) Re: Paris record stores
Re: (exotica) Sign me up/exotica ring
(exotica) Bruce haack
Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing
Re: (exotica) Alessandroni tops Riffage charts
Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing
(exotica) A Date W/ A Slut
(exotica) audio learning laboratory/last call
Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:29:06 -0500
From: Will Straw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing

Let's imagine the last twenty years of music with everything
that used samples stripped out of it -- there'd be little left but
Alternative,  a hundred versions of Lucinda Williams, and the Klezmer
Revival.  Everything would sound like the Village Voice Pazz and Jop
Top Ten.

Will


  -------------------------------------------------
Will Straw, PhD
Associate Professor and Director, Graduate Program in Communications
McGill University

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/gpc/



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:15:48 -0500
From: "Brian Karasick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Re: Paris record stores

Re: Paris record stores:

> 1.BPM (Paris) (score: 100%)
> Techno | Ambient (Dance)     Paris, France
>  2.UhBahn (score: 100%)
> Ambient (Dance) | Techno     Paris, France
> 3.Rough Trade (Paris) (score: 100%)
> Electronica | Experimental     Paris, France
> 4.Bimbo Tower (score: 100%)
> Experimental | Jazz     Paris, France
> 5.Wave (score: 100%)
>  Dance |     Paris, France
> 6.Odd Size (score: 100%)
> Hardcore | Industrial     Paris, France
I don't know Store #1 but Stores #2,#3 and #6 no longer exist. I
believe the Wave store is run by the person from UBahn.  No
mention of "Born Bad" perhaps the one store of most interest to
this list! And I don't even live there...

I found a great list for Montreal but the top rated store was also
gone and the best one wasn't even mentioned. These things need
constant maintenance so beware if you take on this work!


Brian Karasick
Physical Planner
McGill University
Montreal, Canada


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:53:24 +1100
From: Philip Jackson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) New Releases (Uri Geller, Stockhausen)

on 17/1/00 12:58 AM, Arjan Plug at [e-mail] wrote:


>
> GELLER, URI:  CD (FORK 1 CD). "Uri Geller is known by millions

I have the original vinyl of this and it is favourite of mine for upsetting
my rationalist friends. It is a very peculiar and unintentionally funny
piece of early "New Ageism" by one of the great charalatans of the 20th
century.

Some of Uri's lyrics:

Beyond Imagination

Floating in deep velevt, black space
Light as emptiness comes to my eyes
Loneliness that hurts my heart
Waves of space push me aside
Planets circle around me
Lost out there
Or cristals shine and open up my eyes
Stars that drip of thunder colors
Crisp against my eyes
Home is gone, life begins
I can't imagine more
Help I need, it's closing on
That earth falls to peaces
I see some light coming from far.


(spelling all his!!)

If anyone is interested in the Geller vs debunkers battles a search for
info. about the magician Jamed Randi should be fruitful.

Philip



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:05:25 +1100
From: "Keith E. Lo Bue" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) URIPEEWEE and Cut-em-Up Rage

DON'T ANYONE GET THE URI GELLER CD!!!  Sorry, don't want to cut in on any
reissue compensation, but I have the record (it will go up on eBay sooner or
later).  It's a greasy listen, folks.  As tepid as music can be; haven't
tried it, but I'm reasonably sure it'll bend spoons with boredom.  The one
track spoken of elicits a few chuckles for it's spoken faux-etry lyric, and
I considered it for a comp I was making, but wisely decided to spare the
listeners the grief.

Loved that Pee Wee's Playhouse post...Mark Mothersbaugh did have a minor
stroke of genius/subversive triumph in his musical stewardship of that show.
Uber-surreal performances by the Del Rubio Triplets and the Residents stand
out in my mind.

And for my queasy two bits on the sampling debate long raging here:

It saddens me a bit to read that one of the major 'reasons' why people
sample is by a professed lack of musical ability.  Yikes! Seems to me the
wrong impetus to use an amazingly potent instrument. Anyone who thinks that
the world of sampling is populated by all people of this stripe, try
listening to Bob Ostertag, Nobukazu Takemura, John Oswald, Mark De Gli
Antoni (Soul Coughing's keyboardist) or Carl Stone, who are as virtuosic in
their use of sampling as any chops-laden jazz guitarist.  But to pick up
sampling because you want to 'play' those rock-trio instruments is bizarre
at best and noise pollutive at worst.

We can't all be Terminator X, but all you sampling musicians need to start
calling yourself musicians if you use the sampler well!  It's all organized
sound, after all.

I'm done.  You can kill me know--I know I'm in for it!

Keith

*******************************
http://www.lobue-art.com
The Artwork and Workshops
of Keith E. Lo Bue
*******************************




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:15:55 -0500
From: "m.ace" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing

>Let's imagine the last twenty years of music with everything
>that used samples stripped out of it -- there'd be little left but
>Alternative,  a hundred versions of Lucinda Williams, and the Klezmer
>Revival.  Everything would sound like the Village Voice Pazz and Jop
>Top Ten.

Oh geez, I'm sorry, but that's as silly an overgeneralization as any
anti-sampler has ever used.


playing my sampler with mallets (such a nice thunk),

m.ace  [e-mail]
OOK   http://www.voicenet.com/~ecam/


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 01:01:06 -0800
From: "mofo2148" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Friendly Persuasion - Week of 1/17

Week of 01/17/00

The Friendly Persuasion Show

Cool and Strange Music Magazine's weekly radio show on Antenna
Internet Radio.
http://www.antennaradio.com/punk/friendlypersuasion/index.htm

Get your RealAudio player ready and tune in anytime during this week
to hear:

1.  His Kids - It's Contagious
2.  Sex Instruction Guide For Parents (excerpt I)
3.  The Jimmy Castor Bunch - King Kong Pt. 1
4.  Valvolene '69 - Swinging Sights and Sounds
5.  The Cheers - Black Denim Trousers and Motorcycle Boots
6.  Sex Instruction Guide For Parents (excerpt II)
7.  Mrs. Miller - Mary Jane
8.  Ann-Margret - Inka Dinka Doo
9.  Intermission Time
10. Dick Hyman - The Moog and Me
11. Les Baxter - Hava Nagila
12. Yuko Kayama - ???
13. Dave and Ansil Collins - Double Barrel
14. Alyne Meshad - Love Me Tender
15. Ruby Wright - Billy Broke My Heart at Walgreens
16. Bob Dorough (Schoolhouse Rock) - Little Twelvetoes
17. Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass - Sunny
18. The Curbstones - Scrumpdillyishus Land
19. John Mars - I Want My Drugs
20. Daniel and the Lion's Den - Clean Living
21. Evolution Control Committee - Pollution
22. Ween - The Stallion Pt. 3
23. Brian Wilson (w/ Ringo Starr & other luminaries) - Barbara Ann
24. Ogden Edsl Wahalla Blues Ensemble Mondo Bizarrio Band - The
Crocodile Song
25. Stormy Six - Fiori Per Sempre / Un 'Altra Come Te
26. Claudine Longet - Think of Rain

     Chow,

     Otis

- -------------------------------------------------
Mr. Otis F-Odder)
[e-mail]
Box 21104, Seattle, WA  98111  USA
- -------------------------------------------------
www.thebranflakes.com
www.coolandstrange.com
www.antennaradio.com
- -------------------------------------------------





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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:21:33 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: (exotica) Bono?

Q: How many members of U2 does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: One. Bono holds the light bulb and the world turns around him.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:34:23 -0500
From: Nat Kone <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing

At 07:42 PM 1/17/00 +0000, Moritz R wrote:

> In early days using a
>sample by one of your musical heroes was more like a hommage to that artist
>and not a rip off, especially when black musicians sampled black musicians.
>White musicians often used "black samples", because there was no white
>musician who could play or sing like that. Was that incorrect?

Politically incorrect?  Probably.  Factually incorrect?  Probably that too.

I don't even know what the argument is but I've always assumed that samples
were used in hip hop for one reason above all.  They were cheap.  They were
do-it-yourself.  Even if you could play an instrument, which many couldn't,
it was still much cheaper to use the samples.
If it was ever an hommage, that was a by-product.  And as far as the whites
can't play black, I don't know how to factor that in given how many hiphop
records used samples from Bob James and Seals and Crofts and for all I
know, the Captain and Tennille.
If I wanted to start making "spoken word" records tomorrow and I wanted to
place my words in a musical setting, I would certainly use samples.  Even
if I had a group of musician friends ready and available to hang around my
livingroom and play whatever I say, when I say.
Leaving aside the whole history of collage, sampling began as a
convenience.  Then for some, it became a genre unto itself; it was all
about sampling.  So at that point, playing was a non-issue.
The only time I ever think about this issue is like the other night when I
saw Macy Gray on SNL.  She had a full band, singers, the works.  And off to
the side was this DJ spinning and scratching, barely audible and as far as
I could tell, contributing virtually nothing except some kind of fashion
statement.
But he did look cool.
Cooler than any white guy would have looked.

Nat




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:44:29 -0500
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing

>I don't even know what the argument is but I've always assumed that samples
>were used in hip hop for one reason above all.  They were cheap.  They were
>do-it-yourself.  Even if you could play an instrument, which many couldn't,
>it was still much cheaper to use the samples.


The vast majority of early hiphop was made using a live band; Sugarhill
Records was even notable for one of the greatest house bands ever.  When
sampling first entered it wasn't exactly cheap (excluding any sampling
royalties which has only sporadically been paid, the equipment could be in
the price range of manual instruments) and certainly not completely
do-it-yourself (ask anybody who's ever used one).  Since some of these live
bands played material lifted from other records (such as Chic's "Good
Times") it looks like the aesthetic was in place before the technology made
it possible to expand on it.

LT
Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm

Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:45:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Freedman <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) WFMU Stream Update #1

******************************************************************

  * * WFMU's STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS NEWSLETTER - JANUARY 2000 * *
            edited by Station Manager Ken <[e-mail]>

******************************************************************

The brand new periodic e-mail newsletter for internet listeners of
freeform radio station WFMU, the station that doesn't take a penny from
"The Man." (Although we occasionally use his software.)

We apologize if you prefer not to be on this list. We're trying to
communicate with the folks who listen to WFMU on the net, and it's
possible that your name was submitted erroneously by one of the WFMU
DJ's who helped compile our list of WFMU net listeners.

TO UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank message to [e-mail] with the
word "unsubscribe" (no quotation marks) in the body (not the subject
line!) of the message. Subscription and other info is at the end of this
e-mail, but if you received this message from [e-mail], then you're
already subscribed. However, you may wish to pass on the subscription info
to others you know who listen to WFMU on the net. If you have any
problems unsubscribing or subscribing, please e-mail
[e-mail].

                   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

We're contacting you, a presumed WFMU web listener, so that we can begin
to plan the next phase of WFMU's netcasts.

Even if you don't read on, please take our web listener's survey, at:

<http://www.wfmu.org/cgi-bin/vfsm.pl>

We take our internet broadcasts very seriously, and we're now planning an
expansion of our archiving and streaming activities. You'll soon be able
to listen to WFMU in your choice of either the RealAudio format *or* the
Windows Media format, and we also hope to add a streaming MP3 format, plus
a better sounding RealAudio stereo stream and more RealAudio program
archives in the next few months.

We're curious to know how YOU would like us to expand our netcasting
activities, and the poll on our website is our first attempt at finding
out. We understand that you're probably busy, but if you've ever listened
to us on the net before, please take the poll so we can better plan our
future netcasts.

We value ALL of our internet listeners, regardless of whether
they use Windows, Macintosh or Unix/Linux computers. Although FMU's
finances are limited, we're going to offer our audio in various
formats, and at various bit rates. Although we can't do *everything* we
want to do, we're using this survey to help establish our priorities
so we can better serve you, the WFMU web listener.

We wish we could archive the entire station, 24 hours a day, in five
different formats, at three different bit rates, but that is beyond our
means. But maybe we can add a second bit rate for broadband users, add
some additional program archives (let us know which programs you want!),
and offer our live stream in maybe two or three formats. If we can pull
that off, then we'll move on from there.

Now, on to the background of what's been going on with WFMU's webcasts..

WFMU's been a freeform broadcaster for many decades now (on the air in
1958, and we went freeform in 1968), and our stream has been available on
the web since 1997. We believe in giving our DJs as much freedom as the
law allows to play and say whatever they want. We believe in giving our
listeners a *very* wide sonic choice, and we give them enough credit to
decide what to listen to, or whether or not to listen at all. WFMU is the
kind of station that you have to turn off once in a while. We don't
strive to appeal to any particular demographic group all of the time.
Though our programming may make you occasionally lunge for the STOP
button, it's our hope that what you dont turn off, you may love. And much
of what we play just isn't available elsewhere, even with the huge range
of music and radio now available on the net.

Up to now, our audio stream has been offered under the auspices of
Broadcast.com, which is now owned by Yahoo. Since 1997, we've had one
mono stream available in the RealAudio (RA) format. In the next few weeks,
we hope to renew our contract with Yahoo. Yahoo has indicated that they
would serve our stream simultaneously in two different formats - RA and
Windows Media Player (WMP). And in the next few months, we also hope to
offer even more streaming audio options through the WFMU website
at wfmu.org.

Recently we had a scare when Broadcast.com indicated that they were
replacing the RA format with WMP. You may have read about this on our
website, or heard some of our DJs talking about it on the air.

We're happy to report that after many weeks of confusion, Broadcast.com
has now committed to keeping WFMU's RA stream up. They will also be adding
a second stream in WMP, so people will have a choice of listening to our
live stream in either format. Meanwhile, we would like to also serve our
audio in a streaming MP3 format such as Icecast. Icecast is a free, cross
platform format (like RA, it works on Mac, Windows or Linux). It offers
improved sound quality over either RA or WMP. But for most people, Icecast
is more difficult to install than either RA or WMP.

WFMU's internet listeners run the gamut from first time computer users to
expert programmers. We want everybody to be able to hear WFMU on the net,
regardless of their experience or equipment. What makes it all complicated
is that there is such a huge range of expertise among our listeners, and
also a large range of equipment and net connections. And now that the
convergence wars are underway, things are changing even faster on the
internet radio front.

Internet radio now appears to be headed towards *more* fragmentation of
formats, not less. This is partly due to developments such as Microsoft
trying hard to increase the market share of its own WMP, or AOL's
recently announced affiliation with the Liquid Audio format. Some people
with all-Microsoft systems (ie, Win 98, Internet Explorer) may prefer to
use WMP, since it does come pre-loaded on most Windows machines, which is
a major advantage for some users. WMP is also reportedly better to
use if you're computer is protected by a network firewall. But some
people who use Microsoft's competitor's products (ie, Netscape,
RealAudio, Macintosh, Linux) may be wary of importing Microsoft's products
into anything less than a 100% Microsoft environment.

So things are getting more complicated, not less, but we're very happy
that we will be able to offer our web listeners a choice, and may the best
products prevail in the end.

Based on the early, preliminary returns, 30% of our web listeners use
Macintosh and Linux machines (and we use both operating systems internally
at FMU). 70% primarily use The Man's Operating System (and yes, we use
that, too). Over 70% of our early responding web listeners prefer
RealAudio, 9% prefer WMP, and 15% prefer a streaming MP3 format.

The above results are based on a fairly small sample, which is why we
would like you to also register your preferences at the survey, which
again, is found at:

<http://www.wfmu.org/cgi-bin/vfsm.pl>

Don't forget that you can find the most current information about the
state of WFMU's stream at our audio page, which is found at:

<http://www.wfmu.org/ssaudionet.shtml>

I'll be back with another streaming update in a few weeks, and I'll tell
you then what our exact plans are for expanding our streaming activities.
Thanks for reading, thanks for listening, and thanks for taking part in
our web listener's poll.

(The poll only allows for a very short comment. Feel free to e-mail me
directly with more comments and suggestions.)

- -Ken Freedman, Station Manager


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken Freedman            [e-mail]
WFMU                [phone] ext 225
PO Box 2011
Jersey City, NJ 07303-2011    http://www.wfmu.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Addresses you may want or need:

WFMU Page at Yahoo:
<http://www.broadcast.com/radio/Public/WFMU/>

WFMU Audio Page:
<http://www.wfmu.org/ssaudionet.shtml>

WFMU Audio Poll:
<http://www.wfmu.org/cgi-bin/vfsm.pl>

A demo of streaming MP3 formats:
<http://www.live365.com/splash2.html>

RealPlayer G2 7.0 for Windows:
<http://proforma.real.com/real/player/player.html?src=downloadr,991228choice&dc=11111019>

RealPlayer G2 7.0 (beta) for Mac:
<http://proforma.real.com/real/player/g2player.html?src=&lang=en&dc=11111019>

RealPlayer G2 6.0 (alpha) for Linux:
<http://proforma.real.com/real/player/linuxplayer.html>

Windows Media Player for Mac:
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/mediaplayer/en/download/allplayers.asp>

Windows Media Player for Windows:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/mediaplayer/en/default.asp


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jan 00 22:59:57 -0800
From: "B.J. (Barbara J.) Major" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) New items on site!

Hello Exotica Mailing List,

A short time ago I told you of my Wanderley Discography that is now
online.  I am pleased to announce that tonight another new section has
been added:  MP3 audio clips of Walter's music.   The section is listed
in the Index on Page 1.  If you have never heard Walter play, PLEASE
check out these clips--they are worth a listen!


Regards,
- --bj
The Walter Wanderley Pictorial Discography
<http://bjbear3.freeservers.com/Wanderley/main.html>



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:03:17 +0000
From: dan hill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: Paris record stores

<snip>
>I don't know Store #1 but Stores #2,#3 and #6 no longer exist. I
>believe the Wave store is run by the person from UBahn.  No
>mention of "Born Bad" perhaps the one store of most interest to
>this list! And I don't even live there...
>
>I found a great list for Montreal but the top rated store was also
>gone and the best one wasn't even mentioned. These things need
>constant maintenance so beware if you take on this work!


hi brian (and others)

please tell us more about 'born bad'! as i noted in my previous
message, the point about the motion shop finder is that it's
maintained by people like you - the actual record shoppers ... anyone
can add a shop! and anyone can search - details are put in for the
benefit of others i.e. people going to paris for the weekend and
looking for somewhere to spend their francs! (incidentally, does
anyone know a parisien shop called 'crocodile' or 'alligator' or
something like that? something reptilian and good at 'world' music!)

the "need for constant maintenance" is exactly the reason we designed
the shopfinder like we did. no one person, or organisation, could
possibly keep a track of all the decent specialist record shops out
there, so we handed the task over to you, and the internet! we've
just built a forum/system for it ...

so feel free to update the list for paris with some detail on 'born
bad', and anything else ... the only details you need to start a
record of a shop is the name, the city, and the genres, and sounds
like we've got those ... other people will fill in the other details
over time ...

and thanks to cheryl for yesterday's updates! and anyone else who
contributed - one new shop, one updated shop, and three sets of
comments yesterday ...

and tell us about montreal ... looks like the shopfinder's only got
details of three shops: cheap thrills, atom heart records, and
disquivel ...

cheers,
dan.

- --
- ---+ dan hill [state51]
    ---+ new reviews on motion [17.1.2000]:
< brast burn | sub rosa vs. kompakt | skull | abdel gadir salim | jet
jaguar | kit clayton | pablo's eye >
             http://motion.state51.co.uk/   +---


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:23:18 -0500
From: "Nathan Miner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sign me up/exotica ring

Nat:

Hey!  This idea of mine to submit one or two "must hear" tracks would =
definitely go towards making up a 90min. (or 60min depending on the amount =
of material I get....) compilation tape that would be copied for anyone =
desiring a copy.   PLUS, I would submit it to the "Exotica Ring" for =
circulation so that people could make their own copies and save me some =
time/energy/money......

So, anyone NOT wanting to get into the Exotica Ring mailing chain, please =
don't write-off this compilation idea.=20

I'll be the "Dub Doctor."

So, c'mon guys.......start sending me your "must hears!"

Best -

Nate

>>> Nat Kone <[e-mail]> 01/14 5:44 PM >>>
=20

The other day I found a cut that I thought would be perfect for this.  =
It's
from this series of records that I believe only came out in Canada.  All
the records have the same cover, an ugly montage that says "Canada".  But
the records are all over the place, including a fair bit of pretty good =
jazz.
This cut was a way over the top version of "Aquarius" with way too much =
bad
electric sitar by someone named Gerry Hoelke.  (Someone run a search on
that name.)
Now, if someone were compiling CD's or tapes of stuff like this, if
everyone sent their material to one central place and then they would
receive a full compilation back... if that's the way it worked, I'd sign =
up.
But the idea of this "ring" where you're constantly sending a few tunes =
and
receiving a few and then sending them on.... I can't do that.  Just ask
anyone I owe a tape to.  I'm just bad at going to the post office.

So if the idea changes, lemme know.

Nat




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:44:41 -0000
From: Reader Geoff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Bruce haack

For information


> Bruce Haack "Electric Lucifer" (US Columbia CS 9991), stereo, =
reissue,
> new:
> =A39.50=20
> Bruce Haack "Hush Little Robot" (Germany Q.D.K.Media LP 032) new: =
=A311.75=20
>=20
> at=20
>=20
> http://www.demon.co.uk/intoxica/moog.htm
>=20
Citizen,  it may not be a boot after all.


> El Maestro Con Queso
>=20
> [e-mail]
> [e-mail]
> http://www.shitola.freeserve.co.uk/cheese/cheese.htm
> http://www.geocities.com/djcheesemaster/


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:19:05 +0000
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing

Nat Kone wrote:

> I don't even know what the argument is

I don't know either... I feel my own point changing right now...

> but I've always assumed that samples
> were used in hip hop for one reason above all.  They were cheap.  They were
> do-it-yourself.  Even if you could play an instrument, which many couldn't,
> it was still much cheaper to use the samples.

We (my band) got our first Emu in 1982 and I couldn't say it was cheap; it was
in fact the most expensive instrument we ever bought. But the perspective of
the possibilities just was too great. In the long run, it is of course a cheap
way to produce sounds, but on one hand, this is the case with almost all
technological progress, and on the other hand, it became clear pretty soon,
that you couldn't do everything with sampling. There are still numerous needs
in music production, where you rather want to hire a real musician, instead of
using samples. Often samples are only used to produce the demo tape, and when
it comes to the real recording you use a musician.
So first the sampler was only an improved synthesizer...

> Leaving aside the whole history of collage, sampling began as a
> convenience.  Then for some, it became a genre unto itself; it was all
> about sampling.  So at that point, playing was a non-issue.

Fort us sampling began as a sound improvement. We all were non-instrumentalists
and we had been working with synthesizers, tape recorders and sequencers for a
while. We used the Emu only for sampling single sounds; whenever we recorded a
whole beat or an entire melody, we felt we can't use that. And using it that
way, it still requires that you play it by hand. It only has a sound that you
couldn't produce otherwise in your studio. Later everybody really started to
sample entire beats up to entire songs and for quite a while we thought, that
to do so is kind of "not right". We only could walk over this imaginary moral
step by thinking we feature music that we really like by presenting it to
others in form of samples, the hommage idea. But later all moral barriers
melted away as everybody used samples in a totally free way, and theories came
up, justifying such behaviour. The ability of human beings to justify in words
what they want to do anyway is just unlimited.
The real danger for musicians didn't come so much from samplers but from
computer recording technology. Even a layman can play an instrument with the
help of the computer. You play your part as good as you can, the computer
quantisizes everything to the right points of the beat. If anything's still not
OK, you can change every single note by hand just the way you need it. You can
even literally write notes into the computer, and it will play it. Still most
results with this technology sounded kind of stiff and after a few years we
started hiring musicians again in certain cases, to give a song that special
groove or that special guitar riff et al.
That's why people came to sampling entire grooves. Because this was the only
way to get all they wanted without hiring musicians. I still feel a bit of
shame to do that. Disadvantage: Everything sounds like something you heard
before. Today Studio musicians work a lot on their samples before using them,
chasing them through all kinds of filters and sound improvements, so that their
origins cannot be detected anymore. I'd still say: If you really want to write
music, you should be able to play an instrument. So much of what we enjoy in
music comes from playing it. It's either impossible or much too expensive to
try to simulate what a good instrumentalist can do just like that, by playing
his instrument. Plus you get new ideas from playing an instrument, ideas that
you could never invent the conceptual way. No wonder the music of the 60s and
70s is still doing so well. Computer music was not able to replace instrument
playing entirely.
There is of course the genre computer music, that has been developing since the
invention of synthesizers. It sort of stands by itself. But it is interesting
to remember that the big synthesizer hits of the 60s and 70s were all played by
hand.

For me the sampler still is mainly a digital instrument to play single sounds.
It is unlimited in what kind of sounds it can play and therefore superior to
the synthesizer. But it does not replace a musician.

Mo




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:31:10 -0800 (PST)
From: chuck <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Alessandroni tops Riffage charts

I ordered this cd for I think $6 from mp3.com and it arrived in a few days.
This cd is a great modern spaghetti western romp ala Morricone.  It was well
worth the 6 or so dollars I payed for it.

Thanks Nicola for recommending this to the list

Easy listening in the Big Easy
Chuck


- --- Nicola Battista  wrote:
>
> look who's number 1 on Riffage.com easy listening charts!
 http://www.riffage.com/Bands/Songs/Top40/0,2968,121,00.html

__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:12:14 -0500
From: Nat Kone <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing

At 03:19 PM 1/18/00 +0000, Moritz R wrote:
>
> I'd still say: If you really want to write
>music, you should be able to play an instrument. So much of what we enjoy in
>music comes from playing it. It's either impossible or much too expensive to
>try to simulate what a good instrumentalist can do just like that, by playing
>his instrument. Plus you get new ideas from playing an instrument, ideas that
>you could never invent the conceptual way

I know that it's not fair to the musicians but when I listen to most easy
listening records, I don't really get a sense of the musicians bringing
themselves and their ideas to the project.  The horn sections, the string
sections etc mostly sound the same from record to record.  In "crime jazz"
for instance, there is some soloing and so individual musicianship clearly
plays a role but I don't think the individual characters of the soloists
have the same importance that they do in bebop, for instance. The ideas
that I enjoy come mostly from the arrangements and the composition.
So I feel like someone could sample the Les Elgart horn section and the
Percy Faith string section and create music that I would enjoy.
It wouldn't work for bluegrass or country swing or bebop but I think it
would for a lot of the music I like.
And it has.

Nat



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:21:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Jane Fondle <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) A Date W/ A Slut

ASTROSLUT
THURSDAY JANUARY 20 @ THE MILKY WAY
403 Centre St., Jamaica Plain (under Bella Luna)
12p-The Electromagnets, 11p-Astroslut, 10p-Lars Vegas
Check out "Love at Zero G."  13 Songs.
http://cdalley.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi
click on alternative.


=====
"It's just my nature to do weird stuff." - Les Baxter
Buy the debut release from Astroslut:  LOVE AT ZERO G at:
http://cdalley.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:08:45 -0500
From: Bump <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) audio learning laboratory/last call

ok
it is looking good.
we are up to the magic 23 right now on the exotica mailing ring.


Jan. 19th is the final deadline for those not yet decided to sign up.
tomorrow at midnite my computer turns into a pumpkin and no more emails for
the exotica ring will be taken.

email me at bump@defectiverecords and/or [e-mail].
do both to be sure, some of you had trouble reaching me at the megsinet
address.

thanx for helping making this happen.
i hope to dig lots of stuff i have been missing out on or just reading about.



P.S. Nat, you sure you don't wanna do this?  ;)

********************************
Bump
Universal DJ
Defective Records
[e-mail]
http://www.defectiverecords.com
"Music, Non-Stop" -- Ralf + Florian




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:41:58 +0000
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling vs. Playing

Nat Kone wrote:

> At 03:19 PM 1/18/00 +0000, Moritz R wrote:
> >
> > I'd still say: If you really want to write
> >music, you should be able to play an instrument. So much of what we enjoy in
> >music comes from playing it. It's either impossible or much too expensive to
> >try to simulate what a good instrumentalist can do just like that, by playing
> >his instrument. Plus you get new ideas from playing an instrument, ideas that
> >you could never invent the conceptual way
>
> I know that it's not fair to the musicians but when I listen to most easy
> listening records, I don't really get a sense of the musicians bringing
> themselves and their ideas to the project.

I admit, it's very subtle, but you hear it. If you would make a direct comparison
to the same thing played with computers, you would hear the difference.

> The horn sections, the string
> sections etc mostly sound the same from record to record.

That's not the question. The question is: Do they groove, do they sound different
from something played by a computer in absolute straight beats

>  In "crime jazz"
> for instance, there is some soloing and so individual musicianship clearly
> plays a role but I don't think the individual characters of the soloists
> have the same importance that they do in bebop, for instance. The ideas
> that I enjoy come mostly from the arrangements and the composition.
> So I feel like someone could sample the Les Elgart horn section and the
> Percy Faith string section and create music that I would enjoy.

Well.. if you sample the ENTIRE horn section, then of course you get the same as
the original. But that was not what I meant. I meant sampling sounds and
arranging it with computers.

> It wouldn't work for bluegrass or country swing or bebop but I think it
> would for a lot of the music I like.
> And it has.

Did you make music yourself? Didn't know that. Under what name? Bruno?

I can only tell from my own experiences. The problem with sampled computer music
always was, how to make it more "living". There was one plug-in in our software
called "Humanize"; you could edit your lines with it and it would turn the
straight rythms and melodies a little bit out of beat. I think that tells enough
about the problems of computer music.

I guess, what happened since computers are all around in recording studios, is,
that the music has changed. It has become much straighter. So if the entire track
is designed with a computer then computerized brass sections etc. fit better. But
if you want to create something similar to the big band records of the 60s with a
computer you'll get yourself into the most exhausting troubles.

Mo



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------------------------------

End of exotica-digest V2 #601
*****************************