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From: owner-descent-digest@lists.xmission.com (descent-digest) To: descent-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: descent-digest V1 #39 Reply-To: descent-digest Sender: owner-descent-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-descent-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk descent-digest Tuesday, September 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 039 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:39:26 EDT From: Aimles0923@aol.com Subject: (descent) dream tour 2000 - --part1_109.5ee5f43.28dbd82e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Awhile back someone had a trailer up of a cure "documentary" they were doing. I cant remember the web address. If ayone knows this can they please forward it to me? thanks in advance a-me - --part1_109.5ee5f43.28dbd82e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Hi all Awhile back someone had a trailer up of a cure "documentary" they were doing. I cant remember the web address. If ayone knows this can they please forward it to me? thanks in advance a-me</HTML> - --part1_109.5ee5f43.28dbd82e_boundary-- - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:35:20 -0700 From: "c" <skinny@jps.net> Subject: Re: (descent) cure music video site? Hi Allie Try this site http://home.houston.rr.com/hideawayscure/OutofthisWorld/videos/videos.htm The link might break in this email, so make sure you get all of it. :) - --Chris - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison Loverher" <angel_allie@hotmail.com> To: <descent@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:53 PM Subject: (descent) cure music video site? > hi all, > i was wondering if any of you knew this site. youre able to download cure > videos off it. i forgot it and any help would be appreciated! > > thanks in advance, > allie > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > - > To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:56:45 EDT From: Tanooki2@aol.com Subject: Re: (descent) peace - --part1_113.4f4a439.28dca11d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is a different persepective on where the Terrorists come from and why a= =20 full scale war may not be the best option. Like the President said, this is= =20 a new kind of war because we're seeking retaliation against select=20 individuals and not an entire nation. This commentary comes from Tamim Ansary, a writer and columnist in San Francisco, who comes from Afghanistan. I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?"=A0 Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan.=A0 The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan.=A0 When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,think Hitler. And when you think=A0 "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.=A0 A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.=A0 There are millions of widows.=A0 And the Taliban=A0 has been burying these widows aliv= e in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets.=A0 These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already.=A0 Ma= ke the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.=A0 Eradicate their hospitals? Done.=A0 Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they=A0 have the means to move around.=A0 They'd slip away and hide. Ma= ybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who=A0 did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be=A0 making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed.=A0 Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout.=A0 It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there.=A0 He=A0 really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the West would win, whatever that=A0 would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else? Tamim Ansary - --part1_113.4f4a439.28dca11d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML>Here is a different persepec= tive on where the Terrorists come from and why a full scale war may not be t= he best option. Like the President said, this is a new kind of war bec= ause we're seeking retaliation against select individuals and not an entire=20= nation. This commentary comes from Tamim Ansary, a writer and columnist in San Francisco, who comes from Afghanistan. I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the S= tone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity= , but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?"=A0 Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have= the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being rai= sed especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've live= d here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I w= ant to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no do= ubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New Yo= rk. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan.=A0 The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychot= ics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal wit= h a plan.=A0 When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,t= hink Hitler. And when you think=A0 "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jew= s in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocit= y. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if som= eone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.= =A0 A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disab= led orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.=A0 There are millions of widows.=A0 And the Taliban=A0 has been burying these widows=20= alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets.=A0 These are a few of the reasons why the Afgh= an people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already.= =A0 Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.=A0 Eradicate their hospit= als? Done.=A0 Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and he= alth care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at lea= st get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban ea= t, only they=A0 have the means to move around.=A0 They'd slip away and hide= . Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and droppi= ng bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who=A0 did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be=A0 making common cause with th= e Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this ti= me So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with tru= e fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs t= o be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed.=A0 Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually o= n the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would=20= die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout.=A0 It's m= uch bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd h= ave to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by= ? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants= - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:24:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Diana Joe <lamichka@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: (descent) peace First of all, I want to say hello for the first time to all the people in this list. And now I want to say something about all the things I've read, seen and heard about the terrorist attacks in the USA. It's obvious for me that all american people think that their country is the most powerful one and I agree to a certain extent. But they seem to forget about one thing, which is that every one of us, even the most powerful one, is vulnerable in his/her way. Don't become blinded by your power. Use this great tragedy not as a reason for revenge, but as a reason for some reflection. Reflection not only about the mistakes of the fanatics who did all this, but also about the mistakes of the so called civilized people. I think that the USA should have the wisdom and the power to stop the murders. And if someone thinks, that by starting a new war the terrorists will actually be punished .... well ... you're wrong. It's a well-known fact that in wars the innocent people are those who suffer. These innocent people could be some afghanistan peasants, but these people can also be YOUR family. And "the leaders" of the terrorists have good enough places to hide and good enough weapons to defend themselves with. Besides, I don't think that terrorist attacks can ever be made "impossible". There will always be people who are crazy enough to kill themselves and others because of some weird idea. These people's minds are too unusual to understand for the american way of thinking. And "Who can understand why they're filled with such a hatred against America and the western civilization?"... Everybody outside this "western civilization". And you Americans can't see the reasons, because you're not informed good enough about some things which happen far away from you. You cannot imagine what your politicians have caused to the Serbian people for example. Hospitals and schools were hit by missiles, people were killed, lives were destroyed. None of this was on CNN. I live in Bulgaria, a country near Serbia, and a missile fell near the house of a friend of mine accidently. None of this was on CNN. The Albanians, whose rights the USA fought for, are the biggest producers and dealers of heroin and other drugs in Europe. I bet you didn't know this. This was not on CNN....And this is only one example. The american politicians are killing people every day and all this is done because of money. I don't want to blame any of the people on this list of anything, but please, don't think that things happen 'just like that'. I like the idea of keeping the world in peace more than anything. A world is enough for us, but it seems like there will always be people with insatiable greed for money, power and glory, for whom the world will not be enough. Right now, the most important thing I hope for is that there will not be a World War III. ~~Diana __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:53:08 EDT From: OtherVoice@aol.com Subject: Re: (descent) peace Terrorism has gone on too long and been ignored by our society not only in America but also around the world. It affects everyone and has now shown how powerful it has grown and how dangerous it can be. America has been spoiled for many years now and has forgotten we are vulnerable, and so is peace and freedom. American politicians undoubtedly have blundered greatly in the past. But we have also allowed the disease of terrorism to spread to a very lethal size. This is not about politics and I don't really think the world has much of a choice on what must be done anymore, but only on the most strategic and informed way to go about doing it. Noone can walk away now- if nothing is done not only America but the world is in jeopardy, noone will ever feel safe. I pray for the innocent people in Afghanistan as I do the innocent people that died here or that have died by political blunders or military mistakes by any country in the past. But if you let this cancer go it will continue to spread and grow stronger. America is at fault in part for not recognizing and trying harder to wipe out this network of hate earlier and now more casualties will likely be the result of innocent people and military forces for letting it get so bad. But America and the world cannot turn its back any longer on terrorism, and the fight for safety and freedom will not come without its costs no matter how sad and horrible those costs may appear. This task will be hard and unfortunately it can never be done properly now without military force and a warlike stance, as well as a continued effort for years to come not only by America but with an effort from the world for peace and safety for our children and generations to come. I pray for the world, not just my own country, and not excluding any innocent persons of any country including Afghanistan. - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 02:54:58 -0700 From: "c" <skinny@jps.net> Subject: (descent) favorite non-album songs I was just listening to 'Uyea Sound' and thought, "Wow, this must be my favorite non-standard song" but, then I started thinking about the others that I love so much. I think mine are, in no order: High (Higher Mix) This Twilight Garden Play Uyea Sound Cloudberry Pirate Ships All Mine/Forever (these two are in order) A Chain Of Flowers Slvvy Let's Go To Bed (Milk Mix) What about you? - --Chris - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:27:52 -0700 From: "c" <skinny@jps.net> Subject: (descent) Forever dnlds Hi all I just came across this site, http://www.multimania.com/forever/welcome.html. It seems to have different downloads of Forever, but I have not tried to download anything yet. If you try it and it works could you let me know? Thanks, Chris - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:29:02 -0500 From: mitchell j van <samedeepwaterasyou@juno.com> Subject: Re: (descent) peace How many died? 7 or 8 thousand? how many died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What about the 50,000 killied in one air strike in germany? On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:17:07 -0500 "EireGirl" <eiregirl@usinternet.com> writes: > i think that the US should retaliate. I am not a violent person and > in most > cases i think that war is pointless, but i also think that if > America DOES > NOT do something, mainly in the form of hunting down Osama bin > Laden, and > anyone else responsible and making them suffer. I know it sounds > inhumane, > but when i think of the THOUSANDS of people that either were crushed > to > death, burned to death, or jumped to their death to avoid burning to > death. > i have friends that were supposed to be in that building for one > reason or > another, and for some explicable reason they didn't make it there, > but still > witnessed it all. they have shared their stories with me, and they > are > beyond words. horrific does not even begin to touch on it. > if we were to just do what we usually do and essentially give the > terrorists > a slap ont he hand (because i think giving them life in prison -- a > US > prison -- is not good enough. what does that show other potential > terrorists? that we will give them, if caught, a somewhat better > life then > they had in their countries? the US prison system is way too clean > and nice > for them. i don't want some terrorists in my country's prison > system, > getting a college education, with the use of my money. because if > you pay > taxes in this country you are paying for that. > > sorry for the rambling on, but i don't think peace is an option > right now, > it is something that must come later. > > ~~eiregirl > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-descent@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-descent@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Gregor > Freund > > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:21 AM > > To: descent@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: (descent) peace > > > > > > It's difficult to break the silence... > > > > I think most of you have read the posts on Chain Of Flowers. > > There's nothing > > left to say about the incidents and the abomination I feel against > these > > horrible terroristic acts. > > But since I've read one sentence I can't get it out of my mind. > > Emma Meconi > > from Australia wrote: "How i wish there was a way to prevent a > retaliation > > of violence." > > > > What do you think about the future? > > It seems more than likely that America will attack someone > somewhere > > somehow. And it's absolutely understandable: the terrorists should > be > > punished with the maximum power. The civilized world agrees to the > aim of > > making further terrorist attacks impossible. > > On the other hand: Wouldn't a strike of America only force the > > terrorists to > > more 'revenge'? Each killed leader of them will be a martyr, in > > their way of > > thinking. Who can understand why they're filled with such a hatred > against > > America and the western civilization? > > Probably every beat of one side will force the other side to > strike back. > > The escalation of violence seems unstoppable. I think this would > > be exactly > > what the terrorists intended - it would give the fanatics a > > reason for their > > so called 'holy war'. > > > > Please don't get me wrong - the above are only some very personal > > thoughts. > > I don't want to start a controversy about whether something is > > right or not. > > > > In fact my intention was to ask you all about any idea of keeping > > the world > > in peace. > > Can't we start something to show that we tolerate every nation, > race or > > religion as long as they are non-violent? Can't we show that one > world is > > enough for all of us? > > > > Through all the years I felt that Cure fans are the most peaceful > people. > > This was the reason to try this post - although I have not much > hope that > > we'll find a way to stop global violence. But I think the time to > sit back > > and wait is over. I feel like I have to do something, and because > you all > > and the Cure are a big part of my personal world I ask you... > > > > Thanks and take Cure > > Gregor > > > > > > But however hard I want > > I know deep down inside > > I'll never really get > > More hope > > Or any more time > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages > send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to > "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages > send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:14:09 -0500 From: "Allison Loverher" <angel_allie@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: (descent) peace yeah, i understand what that dude was saying. but when pearl harbor was attcked, we didn't only go after the pilots or the military leaders who ordered the attack. we declared war on japan, the entire country. thats how it works. we've already given the taliban time to give up osama bin laden, but he hasn't. i say just to bomb them. personally, i hope by the time we're done in that country, there's a body of water in its place. especially since i know people who have had relatives die in ny. and its the one of the worst feelings in the world, to see your friends in so much agony and not being able to help them or cheer them up. a _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:42:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: Stefan Lewandowski <Lewandowski@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Subject: (descent) Tour names Hi, I'm wondering if the Summer Festivals '98 Tour had a special name (like Kissing Tour, Swing Tour, ...) - there was obviously no tour book, but not even a name? Was there a logo they used for that tour? I know that most tickets were printed with the Wild Mood Swings font, but that's all ... If interested in tickets, take a look at my gallery at http://givemeit.de (and you'll know why I asked the above ;-) While we're at it, I have a wish tour necklace for trade, I'm looking for other tour merchandise from other tours, if you're interested in trading, let me know ... See you, Stefan. - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:10:19 +0200 From: "underablackflag" <underablackflag@gmx.de> Subject: Re: (descent) peace You are right, "Hiroshima and Nagasaki" and "50,000 killed in one air strike in germany" were great disasters but does this justify to kill thousands of people with this cowardly Attack? I don't think so! underablackflag - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mitchell j van" <samedeepwaterasyou@juno.com> To: <descent@lists.xmission.com> Cc: <descent@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 5:29 AM Subject: Re: (descent) peace > How many died? > 7 or 8 thousand? > > how many died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? > > What about the 50,000 killied in one air strike in germany? > > > On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:17:07 -0500 "EireGirl" <eiregirl@usinternet.com> > writes: > > i think that the US should retaliate. I am not a violent person and > > in most > > cases i think that war is pointless, but i also think that if > > America DOES > > NOT do something, mainly in the form of hunting down Osama bin > > Laden, and > > anyone else responsible and making them suffer. I know it sounds > > inhumane, > > but when i think of the THOUSANDS of people that either were crushed > > to > > death, burned to death, or jumped to their death to avoid burning to > > death. > > i have friends that were supposed to be in that building for one > > reason or > > another, and for some explicable reason they didn't make it there, > > but still > > witnessed it all. they have shared their stories with me, and they > > are > > beyond words. horrific does not even begin to touch on it. > > if we were to just do what we usually do and essentially give the > > terrorists > > a slap ont he hand (because i think giving them life in prison -- a > > US > > prison -- is not good enough. what does that show other potential > > terrorists? that we will give them, if caught, a somewhat better > > life then > > they had in their countries? the US prison system is way too clean > > and nice > > for them. i don't want some terrorists in my country's prison > > system, > > getting a college education, with the use of my money. because if > > you pay > > taxes in this country you are paying for that. > > > > sorry for the rambling on, but i don't think peace is an option > > right now, > > it is something that must come later. > > > > ~~eiregirl > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-descent@lists.xmission.com > > > [mailto:owner-descent@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Gregor > > Freund > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:21 AM > > > To: descent@lists.xmission.com > > > Subject: (descent) peace > > > > > > > > > It's difficult to break the silence... > > > > > > I think most of you have read the posts on Chain Of Flowers. > > > There's nothing > > > left to say about the incidents and the abomination I feel against > > these > > > horrible terroristic acts. > > > But since I've read one sentence I can't get it out of my mind. > > > Emma Meconi > > > from Australia wrote: "How i wish there was a way to prevent a > > retaliation > > > of violence." > > > > > > What do you think about the future? > > > It seems more than likely that America will attack someone > > somewhere > > > somehow. And it's absolutely understandable: the terrorists should > > be > > > punished with the maximum power. The civilized world agrees to the > > aim of > > > making further terrorist attacks impossible. > > > On the other hand: Wouldn't a strike of America only force the > > > terrorists to > > > more 'revenge'? Each killed leader of them will be a martyr, in > > > their way of > > > thinking. Who can understand why they're filled with such a hatred > > against > > > America and the western civilization? > > > Probably every beat of one side will force the other side to > > strike back. > > > The escalation of violence seems unstoppable. I think this would > > > be exactly > > > what the terrorists intended - it would give the fanatics a > > > reason for their > > > so called 'holy war'. > > > > > > Please don't get me wrong - the above are only some very personal > > > thoughts. > > > I don't want to start a controversy about whether something is > > > right or not. > > > > > > In fact my intention was to ask you all about any idea of keeping > > > the world > > > in peace. > > > Can't we start something to show that we tolerate every nation, > > race or > > > religion as long as they are non-violent? Can't we show that one > > world is > > > enough for all of us? > > > > > > Through all the years I felt that Cure fans are the most peaceful > > people. > > > This was the reason to try this post - although I have not much > > hope that > > > we'll find a way to stop global violence. But I think the time to > > sit back > > > and wait is over. I feel like I have to do something, and because > > you all > > > and the Cure are a big part of my personal world I ask you... > > > > > > Thanks and take Cure > > > Gregor > > > > > > > > > But however hard I want > > > I know deep down inside > > > I'll never really get > > > More hope > > > Or any more time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to > > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. > > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages > > send > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > > http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ > > > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to > > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages > > send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > - > To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ > > - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:07:06 -0700 (PDT) From: brian callahan <bcallahan99@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: (descent) peace i don't think it's the AMOUNT of people that died that makes (most) americans want to strike back. it's the fact that our homeland was targeted during peacetime by people clearly intent on destruction of our social, political, economical and moral sytems, and to our tolerance towards all religions (by INTELLIGENT americans, that is). remember - these people do not correctly represent true muslims, or islam in general. they basically think that if you are not islamic, then you are wrong, and have no right to live in the first place. VERY different to the japan bombings... - --- mitchell j van <samedeepwaterasyou@juno.com> wrote: > How many died? > 7 or 8 thousand? > > how many died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? > > What about the 50,000 killied in one air strike in > germany? > > > On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:17:07 -0500 "EireGirl" > <eiregirl@usinternet.com> > writes: > > i think that the US should retaliate. I am not a > violent person and > > in most > > cases i think that war is pointless, but i also > think that if > > America DOES > > NOT do something, mainly in the form of hunting > down Osama bin > > Laden, and > > anyone else responsible and making them suffer. I > know it sounds > > inhumane, > > but when i think of the THOUSANDS of people that > either were crushed > > to > > death, burned to death, or jumped to their death > to avoid burning to > > death. > > i have friends that were supposed to be in that > building for one > > reason or > > another, and for some explicable reason they > didn't make it there, > > but still > > witnessed it all. they have shared their stories > with me, and they > > are > > beyond words. horrific does not even begin to > touch on it. > > if we were to just do what we usually do and > essentially give the > > terrorists > > a slap ont he hand (because i think giving them > life in prison -- a > > US > > prison -- is not good enough. what does that show > other potential > > terrorists? that we will give them, if caught, a > somewhat better > > life then > > they had in their countries? the US prison system > is way too clean > > and nice > > for them. i don't want some terrorists in my > country's prison > > system, > > getting a college education, with the use of my > money. because if > > you pay > > taxes in this country you are paying for that. > > > > sorry for the rambling on, but i don't think peace > is an option > > right now, > > it is something that must come later. > > > > ~~eiregirl > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-descent@lists.xmission.com > > > [mailto:owner-descent@lists.xmission.com]On > Behalf Of Gregor > > Freund > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:21 AM > > > To: descent@lists.xmission.com > > > Subject: (descent) peace > > > > > > > > > It's difficult to break the silence... > > > > > > I think most of you have read the posts on Chain > Of Flowers. > > > There's nothing > > > left to say about the incidents and the > abomination I feel against > > these > > > horrible terroristic acts. > > > But since I've read one sentence I can't get it > out of my mind. > > > Emma Meconi > > > from Australia wrote: "How i wish there was a > way to prevent a > > retaliation > > > of violence." > > > > > > What do you think about the future? > > > It seems more than likely that America will > attack someone > > somewhere > > > somehow. And it's absolutely understandable: the > terrorists should > > be > > > punished with the maximum power. The civilized > world agrees to the > > aim of > > > making further terrorist attacks impossible. > > > On the other hand: Wouldn't a strike of America > only force the > > > terrorists to > > > more 'revenge'? Each killed leader of them will > be a martyr, in > > > their way of > > > thinking. Who can understand why they're filled > with such a hatred > > against > > > America and the western civilization? > > > Probably every beat of one side will force the > other side to > > strike back. > > > The escalation of violence seems unstoppable. I > think this would > > > be exactly > > > what the terrorists intended - it would give the > fanatics a > > > reason for their > > > so called 'holy war'. > > > > > > Please don't get me wrong - the above are only > some very personal > > > thoughts. > > > I don't want to start a controversy about > whether something is > > > right or not. > > > > > > In fact my intention was to ask you all about > any idea of keeping > > > the world > > > in peace. > > > Can't we start something to show that we > tolerate every nation, > > race or > > > religion as long as they are non-violent? Can't > we show that one > > world is > > > enough for all of us? > > > > > > Through all the years I felt that Cure fans are > the most peaceful > > people. > > > This was the reason to try this post - although > I have not much > > hope that > > > we'll find a way to stop global violence. But I > think the time to > > sit back > > > and wait is over. I feel like I have to do > something, and because > > you all > > > and the Cure are a big part of my personal world > I ask you... > > > > > > Thanks and take Cure > > > Gregor > > > > > > > > > But however hard I want > > > I know deep down inside > > > I'll never really get > > > More hope > > > Or any more time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to > > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > > with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the > message. > > > For information on digests or retrieving files > and old messages > > send > > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes > in your message. > > > http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ > > > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to > > "majordomo@xmission.com" > > with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the > message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files > and old messages > > send > > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in > your === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - - To unsubscribe to descent, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe descent" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. http://www.xmission.com/~marysmth/cure/ ------------------------------ End of descent-digest V1 #39 **************************** - To unsubscribe to $LIST, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe $LIST" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.