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From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest)
To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: buffy-digest V2 #493
Reply-To: buffy@lists.xmission.com
Sender: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
buffy-digest Wednesday, September 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 493
In this issue:
BUFFY: HORRIBLE! - Worst Ever!
Re: BUFFY: Anne: Shoes and Lily song
BUFFY: Gonna be in New Orleans for Halloween?
BUFFY: Re: HORRIBLE - Worst ever
Re: BUFFY: First Episode
BUFFY: She HAD to go and do that, didn't she??
BUFFY: Re: Joyce
BUFFY: A sentimental moment
Re: BUFFY: Library and Giles
Re: BUFFY: TO EVERYBODY WHO DIDN'T LIKE THE PREMIERE!!!!!
Re: BUFFY: TO EVERYBODY WHO DIDN'T LIKE THE PREMIERE!!!!!
Re: BUFFY: First Episode
BUFFY: Buffy ratings outside of the big 10.
Re: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
BUFFY: What is up with everyone bashing eachother?!?!?!?!? slightly OT
Re: BUFFY: Buffy TVS and you are?
Re: BUFFY: Giles in the background thingie before premiere
BUFFY: buffy/angel
BUFFY: Re: Joyce
Re: BUFFY: Buffy in Hell
BUFFY: The Return of Jenny
Re: BUFFY: Library and Giles
Re: BUFFY: Anne
Re: BUFFY: More ratings info for Anne
BUFFY: Anne observation
Re: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
Re: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
BUFFY: Re: Just about everything............
BUFFY: Anne, shoes, and other musings
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy
or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:58:49 EDT
From: Nicoley99@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: HORRIBLE! - Worst Ever!
Okay, I am going to include spoiler space right after I make a quick point.
For all of you people that take offense to opinionated people like myself
stating how much I hated this episode... please do not read on... thank you.
W
O
R
S
T
E
P
I
S
O
D
E
I
V
E
E
V
E
R
S
E
E
N
!
!
!
Okay, that should be enough... if it's not... whatever, you were warned.
Let me just start off by being blunt, and getting it off my chest. I'm
sure I'm just repeating what everyone else has said, but I feel much better
saying it myself! I have never, EVER been disappointed in a Buffy episode...
until LAST NIGHT. I have been waiting all summer for THAT?! Come on! I know
this is terribly cruel, Joss does a great job writing, but this has got to be
his crappiest piece of work yet. Where did all of his good ideas go? Not into
this episode, obviously. Let me get to WHY.
Okay, this episode got us nowhere with last season's finale. There was
NOTHING between Buffy/Angel, Buffy/slayerettes, Buffy/new slayer. Oh wow, joy
joy, we got a one minute glimpse of Buffy going home.... SO disappointing!
That ''hell'' was pathetic! A factory!? That's supposed to be ''demonic''?
Okay, the makeup was really great on the demons... well, if you -think-
they're demons... since they never said! Buffy's hair was just... ugh.... no
comment... none whatsoever. It was neat that Joss brought that Lily chick back
for another episode... but helloooo?... can we say LACKING TALENT?! I have
never been so disappointed in a guest appearance as I was with her.
I had a buffy premiere party over at my house... we were all totally
psyched when the show started, and after about 20 minutes, we all started
getting restless, and complaining about what a letdown this episode was!
Season opener?! It wouldn't even be able to hold a spot in the MIDDLE of the
season! And what's this with no previews for next week? Now I've not only been
let down by the Buffy writers, but the WB is jipping the show on preview time?
For Felicity?! Whatever... I can't believe I waited all summer for this
premiere... it's an insult to all of us devoted Buffy fans, and it's an insult
to the past two seasons.
That's all I have to say.
Nicole (very angry, and VERY disappointed)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:45:51 -0300 (ADT)
From: cat <stevencj@is2.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Anne: Shoes and Lily song
lily songs, i dunno, [asides from the one you mentioned], but yes yes yes,
i noticed the shoe-swipe, too. i was doubting my memory at first cos i
hadn't watched my tape again to check. but if you saw it too, it must've
been true.
byebyeyebeybye,
cat
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 AmberR3203@aol.com wrote:
> Okay, I need someone to confirm that I am not going crazy. When Buffy pulls
> herself up on the chain to get back to the portal she is wearing tan colored,
> suede, Jack Purcells, but when she goes to whack Ken on the head she is
> wearing Nike (hee hee sweat shop) type shoes complete with gel pockets in the
> soles. Am I losing it, or just obsessing too much? Please look at your tapes
> and let me know : ) Also, can anyone think of what songs Lily's name could
> have come from? (She says that her boyfriend guy picked it from a song) The
> only one I can think of is "Lily (my one and only)" by Smashing Pumpkins, off
> Melloncollie and the Infinite Sadness.
> --AMBER ROSE--
> Keeper of nothing but my own love for the show and plan to get all of my
> friends hooked : ) j/k
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:06:52 -0400
From: Vampire Junction <vampires@afn.org>
Subject: BUFFY: Gonna be in New Orleans for Halloween?
My friends and I will be going to New Orleans again this Halloween for
Anne Rice's Vamp Ball. If any of the you are going to be there, please
let me know off list and maybe we can get together and talk about the
show.
Candy
- --
"Passion is the source of our finest moments. The joy of love, the
clarity of hatred and the ecstacy of grief. It hurts sometimes more than
we can bear.
If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace.
But we would be hollow. Empty rooms...shuttered and dank - without
passion we'd be truly dead.
--Angel BTVS "Passion"
Visit Vampire Junction at http://www.afn.org/~vampires/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:09:21, -0500
From: WhiteRoses20@prodigy.com (MS LAURA DIEHL)
Subject: BUFFY: Re: HORRIBLE - Worst ever
> That's all I have to say.
>
>Nicole (very angry, and VERY disappointed)
I just wanted to say thank you to Nicole, for voicing her opinion
without dropping the tone to the garbage level and without being
inflammatory in her expressions of disappointment. I might not agree
with everything she said, but it was one of the better reports on
angry reactions I've read today.
Hope things get better for you in what the show has to offer in the
future, Nicole. As for me, I was not let down, and am looking at
this as a way for characters to develop and some tension to build
instead of dropping a huge action/emotion packed bomb on us in Ep 1
and thrn trying to keep up with it the rest of the season. I was
just darn happy to have some new Buffy!!!
Lar
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:15:17 EDT
From: AuroraGlxy@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: First Episode
>Larry's mention of "mysterious deaths". I was rolling for that one...
Speaking of, why was Larry at school? Was he not a senior last year? I get
this impression because when he went up to Oz in "Phases" he said something
like "So, Oz, dating a Junior huh? What's up with that? I mean, she's gotta be
putting out, right?" If Larry was a Junior, which him being in the season
opener suggested, he wouldn't have had that much contempt for oz dating a
junior. Unless he's one of those freaked out guys who only dates older
girls... or, uh, guys in Larry's case.
Amanda
ICQ #16963652, BXL member#57, Proud Member of Spuffy
Official Keeper of *Xander's wanting to have sex when looking at linoleum just
because he's 17 (Innocence)*, *Xander's economy phrasing -- "We'd be in
trouble." & "Gone." (Surprise)*, *Xander's nickname "Lookin Around Guy" (GF)*,
*Xander's Quotes: "I mean, if I thought you had one clue what it would mean to
me... But you don't. So I can't." & "You can paint this any way you want, but
the way I see it is that you wanna' forget all about Ms. Calendar's murder so
you can get your boyfriend back."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 18:03:46 PDT
From: "Sapphire" <sapphire@chaos.x-philes.com>
Subject: BUFFY: She HAD to go and do that, didn't she??
Last night, she committed the ultimate sin in my book. She dissed my man =
Giles.
Anyone interested in joining the People for the Unethical Treatment of =
Joyce? See http://www.busprod.com/aclaybor/putj/
Sapphire: <sapphire@chaos.x-philes.com> PUTJ, CoS, X-Over admin, GASPer;
Creeker Numero Uno, DC list admin; http://www.busprod.com/aclaybor
Keeper of Willow's momentary obsession with sore thumbs,
Willow's whimper of sadness for her dead fish and her fake frog fit in =
KBD
Keeper of Gile's Occasional Befuddled Look
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:54:18 -0400
From: sah <romana@mindspring.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
At 05:44 PM 9/30/98 -0500, Ryan Reid wrote:
>She may respond realistically if it was the beginning of the summer, but
>she's had all summer to deal with this and realize she's just being a bitch!
I feel sorry for her, and understand her reaction completely--her daughter
spills some heavy shit on her, then disappears, and Joyce has to cope with
the fact that her daughter has this dangerous secret identity and a
nefarious relationship with an older male teacher. If she's not reacting
like a perfect human being can you really fault her? And why is Joyce a
bitch for reacting badly but Buffy's not a bitch for running out on her
friends *and* her responsibilities?
>but i think joyce show's her real
>bitchy side in Becoming/Anne. I think joyce should be at TOTAL blame for
>Buffy's absence, because she even told her not to come back!
Which is such an incredibly real, heat-of-the-moment parental thing to say,
IMO. Can't fault her, and if she's slow to take the blame that's a
problem, but not a fatal flaw. After all, Buffy and Giles and everyone
else in the know basically played her for a fool for years. I'd be angry
and hurt, too, quite frankly.
>No offense to you personally, sah, but i'm just feeling anti joyce at the
>moment! LOL
Jill and I have a theory that the younger members of the list don't like
Joyce, while us Buffyholics have an easier time seeing where she's coming
from. I was amazed at how much smarter my parents got as I got older. :-)
- --sah
sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
NatPack * Jungle Patrol * Bishop * BBPG:TGLIL * BTVS Colistowner
AVENGERS poll:
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/1932/avengers/index.html
"I support him as President, but privately I hope Hillary cuts his nuts
off." -slb
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:17:06 -0500
From: "Ryan Reid" <reid@lebpub.net>
Subject: BUFFY: A sentimental moment
hey everyone
this isn't really buffy related, but i just wanted to let you guys know what
an awesome list this is! i mean, i really didn't enjoy it over the summer
because it was the same topics over and over, but now i'm really learning to
appreciate this list for what it is! i think you guys are great! i mean, for
the most part, we can carry on with intelligent coversation about all the
buffy goings on, and still not end up with pointless bickering and people
usually don't take things personally! i just wanted to let you all know this
is the best list i've ever been on!
Ryan
Keeper of Cordelia's* yellow backless dress* from Becoming 2.
Keeper of Opening Credits for Season 3.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:17:57 EDT
From: Arakzile@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Library and Giles
I just watched the episode again, and I noticed that too! I like it....it's
harder to do things in a contiuous motion when your taking about television,
because of all the timing issues.....I liked it and I applaud Nick, Charisma,
Allyson, Seth and that football player guys and all the camera people who
pulled it off successfully!
Kara
In a message dated 98-09-30 18:03:59 EDT, rohaly@iaw.com writes:
<< I picked up on the fact that there weren't any cuts and
that's what gave it that unusual feel. Was I just particularly inattentive
and did other people notice this right away?
>>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:20:30 EDT
From: Arakzile@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: TO EVERYBODY WHO DIDN'T LIKE THE PREMIERE!!!!!
In a message dated 98-09-30 18:30:30 EDT, st96p9ak@post.drexel.edu writes:
<< SARAH WAS GREAT, THE EFFECTS WERE NOWERE NEAR CHEESY, ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZY
HOW CAN SOMEONE SAY THEY WERE CHEESY.
>>
Just to clarify myself, the only thing that I said faintly of cheese, was the
whole maks thing on the guy who was saying, "Who are you?" other than that the
effects were perfect, the acting was wonderful and I loved it!
Kara
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:20:29 EDT
From: Tracyrr74@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: TO EVERYBODY WHO DIDN'T LIKE THE PREMIERE!!!!!
<snipped entire post>
Can we say rude much? Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions!!!!!!! I
for one loved the new episode but will not force the rest of those that didn't
like it to love it! Did that make sense? Sorry brain in not in total
thinking mode after that post
Tra
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:22:00 EDT
From: JessTear@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: First Episode
In a message dated 9/30/98 4:18:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
AuroraGlxy@aol.com writes:
<< Speaking of, why was Larry at school? Was he not a senior last year? >>
Larry was more than likely held back. I mean, the character was the
stereotypical football playin' moron. Or at least that's how I always
perceived him.
- - Jess
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:19:41 -0700
From: "Doyce Testerman" <bear@plinet.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Buffy ratings outside of the big 10.
>Can you tell me how about Florida, it may not be in
>the 10 largest bt I would like to know!
I personally would like to know where to look on the internet for
information like this, if such info is available to the general public.
(Specifically, I'm curious about Denver and Minn/StPaul.)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:08:47 -0400
From: sah <romana@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
OK, that last from me wasn't supposed to go to the list as a whole, and I
apologize for some of the language. And I meant "buffyatric" rather than
"buffyholic."
Gotta remember to check the to: fields more carefully. :-)
- --sah
sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
NatPack * Jungle Patrol * Bishop * BBPG:TGLIL * BTVS Colistowner
AVENGERS poll:
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/1932/avengers/index.html
"I support him as President, but privately I hope Hillary cuts his nuts
off." -slb
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:23:16 EDT
From: Arakzile@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: What is up with everyone bashing eachother?!?!?!?!? slightly OT
Hey guys,
Why are we attacking eachother? <sniff sniff> We all love Buffy, and that's
why we're on the list! If people have different opinions about episodes,
that's their OPINION...they have the right to it, the namecalling is not very
good either......Buffy rocks, and everyone knows it!
Kara
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:53:16 -0400
From: "~Ripe, Wicked Plum~" <lebo@gte.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy TVS and you are?
F.Y.G. wrote:
> And for the intellectualites...the symbolism in the hell was interesting
> especially with Buffy's weapons...a hammer and a sickle?
I must have missed the sickle...I think you're talking about the
hunga-munga...it's a hunting weapon that cannot be thrown wrong...no
matter how you throw it, it will cut.
~Ripe Wicked Plum~
- --
ICQ UIN=2607806
Goth Spike
All hail the Lettuce King!
I'm a Spike Girl, ask me how!
Spike's Ducks...and proud of it!
President and founder of the Leo is a Bloody Whelp Club
Proud member of Spuffy!
One of Spike's Minions.
I am the very model of a modern Major General (#5)
in the Stake Off Online Army, that is!
Spike's #2 Sweetie
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:25:24 EDT
From: VampGrl22@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Giles in the background thingie before premiere
In a message dated 98-09-30 17:47:01 EDT, slayer@swlink.net writes:
<< Giles said "I don't know how to stop it without killing Angel", it looked
like a scene from Dark Ages, you know cause of his clothes and such. But I
was sure in Dark Ages that he says "I don't know how to stop it without
killing Jenny". Am I going crazy or did they alter the words!>>
When I first saw this I was thinking that I didn't remember Giles ever saying
this line with Angel's name in it like that, and now that you mention it , I
do remember this from the Dark Ages. Humm... a mistake?
VampGirl
Keeper of Willow's interrogation techniques (GF), Xander's design plans for
the very tiny fence he believed Buffy was buliding (WttH), Joyce's industrial
strength detergent (for getting the blood out of Buffy's clothes), Dru's
"Angel always knows what speaks to a girl's heart," (BBB), Xander's "Oh yea
baby, its snake-o-licious in here (IOHEFY), Giles' weapons cabinet in the
library, adoptive mother to fishman Gage (GF), owner of 250 shares of David
Boreanz, BRLQ #67, GASPer
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:27:07 EDT
From: AuroraGlxy@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: buffy/angel
I just want to say that I find it somewhat disturbing that some of you were
upset about the lack of angel/buffy in "Anne." And it's not because I'm
totally NOT a fan of the relationship, but because BTVS is NOT completely
about buffy and angel's relationship. I'm a fan of buffy/zander and
buffy/spike (whichever one comes first) but I'm not complaining about the
complete lack of interaction between them. If this show was about the
buffy/angel concept then the title wouldn't be "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," it
would be "The Buffy and Angel Show." I thank we should be thankful for the
fact that there's a show at all and not be ready to kill joss because he took
a break of the buffy/angel angle.
Amanda
ICQ #16963652, BXL member#57, Proud Member of Spuffy, Official Keeper of
*Xander's wanting to have sex when looking at linoleum just because he's 17
(Innocence)*, *Xander's economy phrasing -- "We'd be in trouble." & "Gone."
(Surprise)*, *Xander's nickname "Lookin Around Guy" (GF)*, *Xander's Quotes:
"I mean, if I thought you had one clue what it would mean to me... But you
don't. So I can't." & "You can paint this any way you want, but the way I see
it is that you wanna' forget all about Ms. Calendar's murder so you can get
your boyfriend back."
UnOfficial Keeper of Buffy and Spike's obvious sexual tension
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:26:03 -0500
From: "Ryan Reid" <reid@lebpub.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
>I feel sorry for her, and understand her reaction completely--her daughter
>spills some heavy shit on her, then disappears, and Joyce has to cope with
>the fact that her daughter has this dangerous secret identity and a
>nefarious relationship with an older male teacher. If she's not reacting
>like a perfect human being can you really fault her?
I can understand joyce's anger and grief, BUT i just think she is always
being a little self abosorbed and not seeing the big picture all the time.
and i understand her anger at buffy for not "having time" to explain, i'd be
pissed too, but i think joyce should have a little more compassion than to
tell her daughter to never come back. i understand it was said in the heat
of the moment and shouldn't be taken as joyce's sober feelings ( cuz she may
have been slightly drunk ) but i just know i will never say that to one of
my kids when i have them.
>And why is Joyce a
>bitch for reacting badly but Buffy's not a bitch for running out on her
>friends *and* her responsibilities?
Buffy did more than run away from her responsiblities and her friends, but
she was also running away from the cops, and still is, i mean Buffy is a
wanted suspected murderer! she had to haul ass out of town! plus she had
some *major* issues to deal with, and i thought her return to sunnydale at
the end of the ep was TOTALLY appropriate becasue she realized who she was
and she kinda sucked up the events of becoming and is now moving on with her
life.
>Jill and I have a theory that the younger members of the list don't like
>Joyce, while us Buffyholics have an easier time seeing where she's coming
>from. I was amazed at how much smarter my parents got as I got older. :-)
>
i guess you're right (except i'm young AND a buffyholic!) i wouldn't be able
to see it from a parental point of view.
i just want it to be known i don't hate joyce! i just think she's handling
things totally wrong.
Ryan
Keeper of Cordelia's* yellow backless dress* from Becoming 2.
Keeper of Opening Credits for Season 3.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 18:15:10 PDT
From: "Sapphire" <sapphire@chaos.x-philes.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy in Hell
- ----------
> didn't look for Angel. But I believe, and I may be wrong, that she wasn=
't in
> THE hell. She was in a kind of hell, but not THE hell. Watch the scene =
where
> buffy and lily are in the cell. Lily says something about it being hell=
and
> "ken" contradicts her. He said it's like hell, but he never said it WAS=
hell.
>
Yes, he said the world 'reality'. I am of the opinion they were from a =
different dimension,
or reality, kind of like 'Sliders', perhaps. The word hell was basically =
him picking up on
their conversation. I think that Buffy realized that it wasn't really hel=
l as well, just evil
people from another dimension that found humans easy to enslave and use =
for hard
labor.
Sapphire
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:32:29 -0500
From: "Ryan Reid" <reid@lebpub.net>
Subject: BUFFY: The Return of Jenny
ok, i REALLY want jenny to come back, so i was thinking of ways to do it,
WITHOUT it being dreams or illusions...
- - Jenny was actually turned into a vampire... i know we all saw her "death"
but hey, stranger things have happened!
- - Jenny has a mysterious twin who came to town to visit her sisters grave
and decided to stay!
Ryan
Keeper of Cordelia's* yellow backless dress* from Becoming 2.
Keeper of Opening Credits for Season 3.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: a mockingbird girl <dia@fidalgo.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Library and Giles
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Jeff Rohaly wrote:
> It's all one continuous uncut camera shot. It was an interesting effect.
[..]
> I watched it that I picked up on the fact that there weren't any cuts and
> that's what gave it that unusual feel. Was I just particularly inattentive
> and did other people notice this right away?
I noticed it as well. It leads me back to why I liked the episode but
there seemingly chopping editing/lighting created a rather disjointed
effect.
In the long shot, it wasn't really obvious until the camera swings
straight at Larry, almost misses him, and then rights himself. (Unless
that was a deliberate off-center shot, which is possible considering the
teacher.) I have to appreciate the choreography and timing.
You can also tell where they try to smoothly segue from Lily and "Anne"
talking into a video sequence of the homeless people (it doesn't have that
movie/tv look to it, it might be handheld because it does shake a touch)
but it almost doesn't work because of the lighting emphasis. (Lily and
Buffy are more in the shadows and then there's more of a spotlight on the
montage)
debbie - a) who could be talking out of her butt because it's been over a
day since i've watched it and i'm not a film student
b) who's heard something interesting from our kinda-Buffy
Bulletin Board. She said that now Buffy is more popular,
it's more boy-oriented character focus than females. Well? =)
dia@fidalgo.net for the mail, webpage, and other misc. complaints =)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:33:42 EDT
From: Chewie615@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Anne
In a message dated 98-09-30 11:54:56 EDT, you write:
> When a Vamp is dusted by a stake through the heart the stake remains intact.
>
Not always so; when someone keeps hold of the stake, it stays witht hem to be
sure, however, when it is left in the vampire's chest, it disappears. I've
noticed this before too, so I took some time and made my observations.
One little thing I noticed in Anne, and I rewound the ep to make sure, when
the camera goes to a close up of Buffy's feet while climbing up the ladder
after escaping, she's wearing different shoes, canvas like ones. But in the
rest of the ep, she has on tennis shoes. I thought it might have just beent
he one's Sophia was wearing, but during the stunt scenes, they are tennis
shoes as well. I wonder what happened?
Stay Buffilicious, (this is my line of course, I take all ownerships)
Mary
Official Keeper of the quote:
"You're going to die, and the only hope you have of surviving this is to get
out of this pit right now and my God could you have a dorkier outfit?"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:36:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: a mockingbird girl <dia@fidalgo.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: More ratings info for Anne
> Here are last night's household ratings for Buffy and Felicity in each of
> the 10 largest TV markets in the country:
> Boston -- Buffy: 8.2/12, Felicity: 6.5/10
Ha! Felicity viewership *dropped* after Buffy! We know our quality! ;)
debbie - not biased in any way whatsoever. =)
dia@fidalgo.net for the mail, webpage, and other misc. complaints =)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:38:31 EDT
From: Spotilla@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: Anne observation
Is it just me or did Oz's stake look a like it was once a baseball bat? The
bottom part looked like the end of a bat to me but hey I could just be seeing
things...
Anne
Keeper of Willow's short pigtails, The time when Willow was last in Xander's
bed, and Willow's conviction
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 18:36:40 PDT
From: "Sapphire" <sapphire@chaos.x-philes.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
> >Jill and I have a theory that the younger members of the list don't =
like
> >Joyce, while us Buffyholics have an easier time seeing where she's com=
ing
> >from. I was amazed at how much smarter my parents got as I got older.=
:-)
> >
Well, I'm not a younger member, and I am not fond of Joyce. She blames =
*Giles*
for Buffy leaving? I would say that 'if you leave this has, you can never=
come back'
would have been a big influence on the life of a seventeen year old girl.=
I don't think
that Joyce is really in the know yet, either. She says she feels like Gil=
es took her away from
her. IN some cultures, he would have done just that, instead of making =
Buffy's life and his,
harder having sneak Joyce, protecting her from the truth. If given the =
opportunity, would
Joyce rather not know what she knows now about Buffy? I am not sure that =
would
want the knowledge. Denial is a much more peaceful way to live your life,=
for some.
It is obvious that Joyce is still not getting the whole 'chosen one' thin=
g. She also seems to
forget that Buffy was doing this sort of thing in LA, long before she met=
Giles. Her inability to
see what is happening in her daughter's life, and to accept what she sees=
right in front her
definitely helped push Buffy the situation where she felt she *had* to =
leave. Staying home
and fighting with your mother, or save the world from being sucked into =
hell? I know what
choice *I* would have made, in Buffy's shoes. Joyce, however, having seen=
that vamp
explode right before her eyes, and being informed of what Buffy was, said=
the wrong thing.
Period. There are some things you just shouldn't say, being angry is not =
an excuse for that,
IMO. But, that's just my opinion. ;)
Sapphire
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:54:42 -0400
From: sah <romana@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Re: Joyce
At 06:36 PM 9/30/98 PDT, Sapphire wrote:
>Well, I'm not a younger member, and I am not fond of Joyce.
A gross oversimplification on my part. My apologies.
>If given the opportunity, would
>Joyce rather not know what she knows now about Buffy? I am not sure that
would
>want the knowledge. Denial is a much more peaceful way to live your life,
for >some.
Very true, but how many of us can *honestly* say that we told our parents
everything we did, or that they *knew* everything we did? Or even that we
would *want* our parents to know. I think the Buffy-Joyce relationship is
a perfect metaphor for that, taken to extremes. Maybe Joyce didn't want to
know, but maybe Buffy didn't want to tell her. I *do* think Joyce,
rightfully so, feels slighted that there's been this huge secret that
directly impacted on her life, and nobody saw fit to tell her.
Also, the point is moot. Joyce *didn't* really get a say in whether she
knows the information or not. She's had it thrust upon her, in the worst
possible way, IMO. Kinda like Buffy not having a choice in being the
Slayer. An interesting bond between them, to sort of be thrust in this
situation. However, Buffy, unlike Joyce, has a support system, or did
until she bugged out of Sunnydale. Joyce doesn't really have anyone except
Buffy.
>Joyce, however, having seen that vamp explode right before her eyes, and
being >informed of what Buffy was, said the wrong thing. Period. There are
some >things you just shouldn't say, being angry is not an excuse for that,
Agreed, Joyce said the wrong thing. A very human reaction, *especially*
since she just saw a guy explode right before her eyes (don't you just hate
it when that happens). However, that's one thing that *a lot* of parents
say in the heat of anger, so I don't think anyone should hold it against
her in the long term. And since Buffy came back, she's obviously not
holding it against her anymore.
Look, I'm not suggesting that Joyce's reaction was perfect or appropriate,
because it wasn't. But it *was* real. So she's not perfect. Neither is
Buffy.
- --sah
sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
NatPack * Jungle Patrol * Bishop * BBPG:TGLIL * BTVS Colistowner
AVENGERS poll:
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/1932/avengers/index.html
"I support him as President, but privately I hope Hillary cuts his nuts
off." -slb
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:12:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ali <melimauiki@yahoo.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Re: Just about everything............
List Mommy Jill: thank you for your response about posts
dissapearing, it reappeared in digest 489 or 90 (cannot remember)
WUWT? well anyway thanks.
My opinion:
This was a good ep, not the best, but it kind of ranks up there with
some of the first season ones. It had a good plot, but it was a little
underdeveloped. There was so much more they could have done to develop
it. It is sad they only have one hour to work within. Some could say
that they could have done a two parter, but is that the way to start
the season, with another cliffhanger? NO.
I think they should have done a "what happened this summer" ep, or
at least given us a glimpse instead of the "previously on buffy".
I loved the opening scene with Willow and her wonderful lines. Those
are classic.
I loved the fight scenes in "hell". Kudos to Sophia. She deserves a
whole bag full (and more) of congrats. She is now in the credits. It
was cool seeing Jeff at the door of "hell". More Kudos to the stunt
team.
No one needs to quote me and tell me that I am wrong. Because I never
said I was right. its JMHO.
But the below is FACT.
MINOR STUFF,but it COUNTS
Ok, this is in response to to someone talking about the horrible
werewolf costume oz had. Joss was on the PB one time, and he did say
they got a much BETTER outfit......
AND, a place you can find a listing of the eps is at the BRONZE
COMMUNITY PAGE. This has all the released names of the eps so far.
back to lurkdom.
Ali
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:17:01 -0500
From: Clark and Erin Hutton <cah@firefly.vscc.cc.tn.us>
Subject: BUFFY: Anne, shoes, and other musings
First things first: no Amber, you didn't hallucinate the shoes. I
noticed, too. Every now and then I like to see flubs...it reminds me
that our production folks are human.
While I wasn't blown away by Anne, it was definately good to have
something new to watch. I've missed the Scooby gang over the long, hot
summer. The demons were a little Go-fishy, but I can deal. I would like
to have known a bit more about them...what was it that they're making
down there? (besides old people?--grin)
Actually, I spent the last half of the episode hoping against hope that
Buffy WOULDN'T find Angel in this hell/pseudo-hell/whatever. I would
have been really upset if she did. Angel though I love, it would have
been inappropriate to resolve such issues so quickly. We need to suffer
more, and Joss knows it.
I'm looking forward to seeing the gang reunited. Though I appreciated
the character development (and the need for Buffy to be alone), I missed
the complete ensemble work. For me, episodes are strongest when the
whole gang is together. It felt a little off. Maybe that was the point.
I really appreciated the part of Michael's post which said that WSWB
was much better when viewed at the end of the season. I imagine this
will be true for "Anne" also... the time spent away will be better
appreciated once the Slayer is home. Thanks for the perspective.
Kudos to Joss for the silence at the end of the episode. It would have
been so easy to let the characters speak. Thanks for choosing the
better option!
Erin
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End of buffy-digest V2 #493
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