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From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest)
To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: buffy-digest V2 #316
Reply-To: buffy@lists.xmission.com
Sender: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
buffy-digest Monday, June 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 316
In this issue:
Re: BUFFY: AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH
Re: BUFFY: soundtrack and videos
BUFFY: If you don't want to hear about my discovery of song lyrics, then delete this
[none]
BUFFY: curse
Re: BUFFY: UGH
BUFFY: Too many thoughts
BUFFY: Merchandise
BUFFY: SMG's many roles and E! interview
Re: BUFFY: Kendra's death
Re: BUFFY: Kendra's death
Re: BUFFY: Merchandise
BUFFY: Translation, Please
BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: BUFFY: Beverly Hills Family Robinson
Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: BUFFY: Beverly Hills Family Robinson
Re: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
BUFFY: Buffy's home
Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
BUFFY: Xander/Jenny Comparison
BUFFY: Xanders Lie and Stupidity In "Becoming"
Re: BUFFY: Beverly Hills Family Robinson
re: BUFFY: Xanders Lie and Stupidity In "Becoming"
Re: BUFFY: Beverly Hills Family Robinson
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy
or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:38:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Hickerson <mhickers@usit.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH
> BTW, anyone know what eps air the next week after WttH and Harvest?
The mind-numbingly bad, Killed by Death.
Michael
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:51:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Hickerson <mhickers@usit.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: soundtrack and videos
I figure that putting the entire first season of Buffy out on vid
won't be too bad since it was only 13 eps. However, the second season
will be a bigger collection to handle. Anyone know if it's just the "fan
choice" eps such as X-Files has done or it's gonna be every ep they've
done, a-la "Star Trek." Also, will Joss be "hosting" eps as Chris Carter
does for the X-Files vids?
Just wonderin'.
Michael
***************************************************************
*Michael Hickerson mhickers@usit.net*
* http://www.public.usit.net/mhickers *
* Visit the Bearden UMC Young Singles Web Page! *
* http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/5827 *
***************************************************************
*"Just look behind your own soul and the person that you'll *
* see just might remind you of me." --Colin Raye *
***************************************************************
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:11:59 EDT
From: <Somalilly@aol.com>
Subject: BUFFY: If you don't want to hear about my discovery of song lyrics, then delete this
ok, i'm dreadfully sorry for taking up your time by writing this, but i just
thought that some of you would like to know of a discovery i made awhile ago,
but never actually sent to the list.
In a song by Letters to Cleo, found on the soundtrack to "The Craft" called
"Dangerous Type," the lyrics to one verse are:
Is that Angel always upset?
Keeps on forgetting that we ever met
Can i bring you out in the light?
my curiosity's got me tonight....
I found that kind of wierd... because well, before he was "un" cursed, he was
always brooding, and she obviously couldnt take him in the light... and then
after "surprise," he acted like they never "met"... bla bla bla... im sure you
can interpret it however you wish......
i just thought i'd share this with my fellow buffy fans!!
- -chat with you later-if you have any comments, feel free to email me off the
list if you like, or you can have everyone read your comments.. whatever.
- -sara
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:39:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen Kopmanis <gkk@umich.edu>
Subject: [none]
<<Besides, wouldn't Willow, an amatuer expert now in the black arts, put
in an extra "have-sex without losing soul" clause in the new curse?>>
The way I had always thought of the original curse was this 1.Capture the
demon to torment Angel. 2.keep tormenting Angel so that if he ever finds
happiness, take the happiness away
I don't think they'd have to use a "clause." I think they'd just have do
do Part One of the curse, and leave off the other bit.
And I take issue with Willow being anything "in the black arts."
Immitating a language doesn't mean you understand that language or even
that you understand what you're saying. And I don't think Willow could
have pulled it off if she hadn't been possessed by whatever force that was
- -- maybe it was Jenny! I think that who or whatever is on their side,
realized that Willow didn't have the strength or understanding to make it
work, so the "being" possessed Willow and used her as a conduit to make
the curse work.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 10:41:09 EDT
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: BUFFY: curse
Don't hold your breath on their being a "sex ok" clause to this new curse.
From what I have heard, the temptation of losing his soul by being with
Buffy is what will drive Angel out of town--and into his new show Fall '99.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:55:28 EDT
From: <CatDancer8@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: UGH
I talked to him and he said as of now, 'No.' That site is from his big site
of www.xenafan.com but so far he's recieved no notice.
Hopefully it won't happen! ( :
- -Michelle
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:39:47 -0500
From: Mia_McDavid@em.fcnbd.com
Subject: BUFFY: Too many thoughts
I was watching Becoming again over the weekend. Has anybody else
noticed that Joyce (Ms. Denial 1998) reacted *exactly* the same way to
Buffy's "coming out" as she might have if Buffy were gay?
"How do you know you're the slayer?"
"Are you *sure* you're the slayer?"
"Have you tried *not being* the slayer?"
"We'll get help for you!"
The same tired old lines that a parent of a gay child might use. It
was real obvious with the Closed Captioning on.
Mia
Member WPWP
Keeper of the Opening Wolf Howl
I *LOVE* this show!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:54:43 EDT
From: <ALLEGO@aol.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Merchandise
I was wondering if anyone's seen any of the new Buffy merchandise at the
Warner Bros. stores. The stores here in Los Angeles don't seem to have
anything. What are the WB stores supposed to have?
C.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:02:22 -0600
From: Doyce Testerman <bear@plinet.com>
Subject: BUFFY: SMG's many roles and E! interview
>I have a feeling she [SMG] could be one of those rare
>actresses who does it all and not only wins acclaim for her work in tv,
>but also garners some big awards for film, and who knows, maybe later on
>even on Broadway.
Someone I know from work accidently caught SMG's interview on E! about a
week ago, and mentioned it to me because everyone at work just
automatically associates me and BtVS -- maybe I shouldn't mention it in
ever other conversation...
[tongue firmly in cheek example]
Co-worker: Hey, we've got someone on the phone who wants to know what
happens to his print jobs since the power just went out in his building.
Me: That reminds me of something that happens in School Hard...
[anyway]
So, the coworker mentioned that in the interview SMG plugged both movies
she was coming out with this summer, as well as mentioning that filming on
Buffy was starting up soon, and apparently she will also be doing some work
on Broadway 'in the Fall' -- this was as specific as he could be, even
after I dripped jalapeno juice in his eyes and -- well, anyway...
So, I'm wondering if anyone else can confirm or deny, or for that matter
post up a transcript of the interview?
_________________________________________________________
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill.
____________________ bear@plinet.com ____________________
http://www.plinet.com/~bear
Doyce Testerman
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 09:12:41 PDT
From: "Leslie S." <leslie_s_bvs@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Kendra's death
>Unbeknowst to Kendra, Buffy was revived. (Xander can not be labeled
>as bad.) Once Buffy was revived the "powers" given to Kendra did not
>just go away. And she was trained well by her watcher.
Not that well...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 12:15:44 EDT
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Kendra's death
As we recently saw, Buffy was no crack slayer in the early days.
Of course, she hadn't been trained her whole life for the job, either. I
think the point in WML about Kendra was that her single mindedness could be
her downfall. It is what passes for Buffy's "life" that makes her much
better at her job due to increased perspective and cautiousness.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:07:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "F.Y.G." <amordet1@osf1.gmu.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Merchandise
I can say with a DEFINITE that the WB stores will start getting the
merchandise and putting it up in around 2 weeks. Although LA and New York
will get it first all other stores will follow.
On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 ALLEGO@aol.com wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone's seen any of the new Buffy merchandise at the
> Warner Bros. stores. The stores here in Los Angeles don't seem to have
> anything. What are the WB stores supposed to have?
>
> C.
>
> -
>
>
F.Y.G./missile
http://members.xoom.com/fyg
Founder and President of the Buffy Crew
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/7427/
Delta Sigma Phi Sargent at Arms
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:11:46 -0500
From: Mia_McDavid@em.fcnbd.com
Subject: BUFFY: Translation, Please
Does anybody have access to a translation of the Latin or the Rom that
were used in Becoming?
Is it significant of anything that, while we were all over translating
the Latin as a big issue in Halloween, nobody has even *mentioned*
this till now?
Mia
Member WPWP
Keeper of the Opening Wolf Howl
I *LOVE* this show!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:12:22 EDT
From: fun-ee@juno.com (fu nee)
Subject: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
I think that when Xander told Buffy that Willow's message was "Kick his
ass" it is a lie that will come back to haunt Xander when Buffy finds out
that what Willow really wanted her to know was that she was trying the
spell again to give Angel back his soul. However, I'm thinking that it
might not weigh that heavily against Xander because, there really was
nothing else Buffy could do except to kill Angel to keep the demon from
escaping.
I mean, once Angel pulled that sword out, what else could Buffy do except
kill him? If she had the knowledge that Angel might get his soul back,
could she have stalled him long enough by any other means than what she
did? I don't know. It looked like what she did when she did it was
about the only thing she could have done.
Still, it will be interesting to see how Xander and Buffy interact when
Buffy gets back with the gang and says: "Hey, just before I stuck Angel
with the sword, something weird happened and he was like the old Angel I
loved." Then we can all count on Xander nervously coughing and looking
for the nearest exit.
So, I look forward to these two moments:
1. Xander's lie catching up with him
2. Principal Snyder begging Buffy to come back
Coming soon, next season...
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:35:18 -0500
From: Isis <isis@dialisdn.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Beverly Hills Family Robinson
> She plays a brunette teen-aged daughter of a
> super wealthy Southern California family and she must really have been a
> teenager when she played the part.
I have Direct TV which has summaries of movies and such. It said that it
was filmed in 1997! Was that a typo? Does anyone know? She looked
younger than that. Also, the Mom was the same lady who plays Whipper on
Ally McBeal, and she too looked waaaaaaaay younger!
Isis
OB - My Angel web page got mentioned in the May 22 issue of
Entertainment Weekly!
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/8972/index.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:29:14 EDT
From: <PandyGrrl@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
In a message dated 6/1/98 8:16:55 PM, you wrote:
<< However, I'm thinking that it
might not weigh that heavily against Xander because, there really was
nothing else Buffy could do except to kill Angel to keep the demon from
escaping.>>
But that isn't really the point, is it? It comes down to trust and friendship.
Willow trusted Xander with her message that she would be performing the ritual
again (at a risk to her self) and Xander chose to lie to Buffy. I have a
feeling that Xander will have to pay for his dishonesty next season (one can
only hope there will be a Xanderbeating involved). The boy needs to grow up
desperately, maybe losing the faith of his friends will force him to do so.
Pandora, waiting in line with a baseball bat for her chance at a Xanderbeating
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 16:36:53 EDT
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
Xander seemed to be conflicted about his lie and I am sure he will suffer
for it in season 3--check his face in the gang's last scene in B2.
I'm glad no one got to take a baseball bat to me all the times I screwed up
at 16--and I never got to do anything as heroic as Xander has...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:43:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robin Carroll <rncl@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, fu nee wrote:
> Buffy gets back with the gang and says: "Hey, just before I stuck Angel
> with the sword, something weird happened and he was like the old Angel I
> loved." Then we can all count on Xander nervously coughing and looking
> for the nearest exit.
Another possibility, Xander feels *really* guilty, not just about lying,
but because he feels sorta responsible for Angel's "death". This could
lead to a whole new relationship between Xander and Angel when/if Angel
returns from Hell. Xander's guilt might move him to bury the hatchet-
or not :)
> 2. Principal Snyder begging Buffy to come back
>
> Coming soon, next season...
Oh, I so hope this happens, the little troll (no offense, Snyder fans)
begging for forgiveness and Buffy making it hard on him. He has to
promise to use his influence with the Mayor to get the charges for
assaulting a police officer dropped, and help her get out of classes
without hassle. Buffy could become his prize student, since all of the
swimmers are fishy, and he could go around intimidating her teachers into
giving her passing grades. This could be fun!
With too many weeks of repeats ahead,
Robin
rncl@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:47:03 EDT
From: <PandyGrrl@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
In a message dated 6/1/98 8:37:00 PM, you wrote:
<<While I don't agree it was right for Xander to lie to Buffy, maybe his
reasoning wasn't selfish but just that he didn't want to burden her mind
with another thing to worry about.>>
Oh please. He wanted Angel out of his dating pool. Besides that still isn't
the point. Who gave him the right to make that decision? No one. He had no
right to withold information from Buffy especially of that magnitude.
<<I think his expression at school the next day when they were all talking
about Buffy showed he was conflicted/guilty about it.>>
To quote the girl herself, "Good. Keep it up." In fact that is a good
comparison. Jenny didn't know what would happen if Buffy and Angel were
allowed to be together--it wasn't her fault that Angel lost his soul. Yet if
she had told the gang what she was doing in Sunnydale there might have been
some way to prevent it. We don't know because she never gave them a chance and
paid for it with her own life.
Pandora
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 16:52:36 EDT
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
And what if Buffy's concern for Angel had made her hesitant? It looked
like it took everything she had in that swordfight just to stay even.
Xander is the only character on this show who gets no credit for the good
he does, but all the blame for every error--even when the errors have no
consequence. This is primarily because the Buffy/Angel fans are so rabid
about their relationship, they believe the other characters should all take
a backseat or disappear.
And Joss rarely introduces interpersonal storylines and then forgets about
them, so I am sure we will see Xander suffering/paying for this next season.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:11:48 EDT
From: fun-ee@juno.com (fu nee)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Beverly Hills Family Robinson
On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:35:18 -0500 Isis <isis@dialisdn.com> writes:
>I have Direct TV which has summaries of movies and such. It said that
>it
>was filmed in 1997! Was that a typo? Does anyone know? She looked
>younger than that. Also, the Mom was the same lady who plays Whipper
>on
>Ally McBeal, and she too looked waaaaaaaay younger!
Whoa! You're kidding? You mean Sarah was in her 20's when she was in
that Disney Movie...like last year? She looks alot younger! I suspect
that movie summary is in error. Looked to me like it was at least 3-6
years ago.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:13:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Amiee Collier <aecollier@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
- ---PandyGrrl@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/1/98 8:37:00 PM, you wrote:
>
> Oh please. He wanted Angel out of his dating pool. Besides that
still isn't
> the point. Who gave him the right to make that decision? No one. He
had no
> right to withold information from Buffy especially of that magnitude.
I think everyone wants to blame Xander because there's a desire to
grab a scapegoat. Sure, Xander wasn't right, but I hardly think the
outcome weighs ENTIRELY on him. I also don't really think he was in it
to get Angel 'out of his dating pool.' He knows he has absolutely no
chance with Buffy, but he's doing what he thought was best -- good
decision or bad.
> comparison. Jenny didn't know what would happen if Buffy and Angel
were
> allowed to be together--it wasn't her fault that Angel lost his
soul. Yet if
Sorry, I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, but I'm sticking to the
It's-Nobody's-Fault-It's-Fate theory. The last thing Jenny OR Xander
would have wanted is to hurt Buffy. But they did.
Forgive me for my rant. I just lost a promotion and haven't got over
it yet.
:)
==
Amiee <aecollier@yahoo.com>
The Babe Known as Xander: http://www.geocities.com/~aecollier/
"It's not easy having a good time ... Even smiling makes my face ache." - Frank, The Rocky Horror Picture Show
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 17:18:09 EDT
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
The Jenny/Xander comparisons are unfair. Jenny was in effect a spy sent to
Sunnydale by her Gypsy community. Xander is a 16-year-old with conflicting
emotions and motivations. Buffy may end up blaming him as well, but Jenny
and Xander's motivations were completely different.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:20:40 EDT
From: <PandyGrrl@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
In a message dated 6/1/98 8:58:27 PM, you wrote:
<<And what if Buffy's concern for Angel had made her hesitant? It looked
like it took everything she had in that swordfight just to stay even.>>
I have to disagree here. Buffy could handle herself just fine and she proved
that, rather definatively, in this episode. Again, the point was it wasn't
Xander's decision to make.
<<Xander is the only character on this show who gets no credit for the good
he does, but all the blame for every error--even when the errors have no
consequence. >>
Not true. When Xander does something right I will be the first to give him
credit. It's just that lkately, he's been making one bonehead move after
another. The love spell, his day late dollar short bedside confession to
Willow, the HUGE lie in Becoming among numerous others. . .
<<This is primarily because the Buffy/Angel fans are so rabid about their
relationship, they believe the other characters should all take a backseat or
disappear.>>
I find this to be rather insulting to my intelligence. That just because I
like the idea of Buffy and Angel together I'm incapable of caring for other
characters and other storylines. I love Willow, Giles, Oz, Cordelia, Spike and
Dru. The only one I have a problem with is Xander, though it is not to say I
am not enjoying the storyline. Everytime he does something stupid, I want to
throw something at my television! But I'm loving every minute of it.
<<And Joss rarely introduces interpersonal storylines and then forgets about
them, so I am sure we will see Xander suffering/paying for this next season.>>
I agree. Joss won't let me down (if he knows what's good for him! <snickers>)
and all I'm really saying is that this situation should be looked at as more
than just merely protecting Buffy from information which mind hinder her in
battle and more as a betrayl of not only Xander's friendship with Buffy but
with Willow as well.
Pandora
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 17:22:30 EDT
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
I consider my point proven about Xander. Lately he has, once again, risked
his life to back Buffy up (and rescue Giles) in Becoming, joined the swim
team at great personal risk to himself in Go Fish, and risked a federal
offense to steal a bazooka in Innocence. For every dumb mistake I can
probably name 2 selfless acts--proving that some people will only focus on
his flaws.
And it was a mistake to confess his love for Willow? We won't know until
next season if it was best friend/love or in love/love because of the way
that scene was written, but I don't see it as a mistake on any level. He
has proven his devotion before (WSWB--"If they hurt Willow, I'll kill you")
and this is just an extension--even without romantic feelings.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:27:43 EDT
From: <PandyGrrl@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
In a message dated 6/1/98 9:17:15 PM, you wrote:
<<I think everyone wants to blame Xander because there's a desire to
grab a scapegoat. Sure, Xander wasn't right, but I hardly think the
outcome weighs ENTIRELY on him.>>
That isn't the point I am making. The blame for Angel's "death" falls almost
entirely on Angelus. All I am saying is that Xander had no right to keep
Willow's message from Buffy. I'm not angry because Angel "died". I'm angry
because Xander betrayed his friendship with not only Buffy but Willow as well.
Another point worthy of notice is that Xander didn't know that Angelus would
have time to pull out the sword thus forcing Buffy's hand in sending Angel to
hell. His intention was that Buffy kill Angel before finding out about the
curse and that in itself is despicable.
Pandora
- -
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1998 14:32:31 -0700
From: lisag@ella.mills.edu
Subject: BUFFY: Buffy's home
For those of you who have been wondering where Buffy should live
or how she could pay for an apartment....
She should move into Angel's place. Its not as if he will be needing
it for the time being.
:)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 17:32:38 EDT
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's lie to Buffy in B2
That's your opinion what his motivation was. You have no proof of that,
because he never stated it in the ep.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:40:00 EDT
From: <PandyGrrl@aol.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Xander/Jenny Comparison
In a message dated 6/1/98 9:23:33 PM, you wrote:
<<The Jenny/Xander comparisons are unfair. Jenny was in effect a spy sent to
Sunnydale by her Gypsy community. Xander is a 16-year-old with conflicting
emotions and motivations. Buffy may end up blaming him as well, but Jenny
and Xander's motivations were completely different.>>
But Jenny was essentially only her family's pawn to be sure that their
vengence was complete. And in all fairness to Jenny, she didn't do her job
very well. She was against her family's idea of vengence from the beginning
(or so it seems to me) When it comes down to it her betrayl was equal to
Xander's in several respects. Neither knew what would happen by keeping their
secrets. In Jenny's case, she had no idea until it was too late that Angel
could lose his soul and at that point she did everything in her power to
repair the situation. She was only supposed to be "watching" Angel and Buffy.
Until Surprise, she never even tried to keep the two of them apart.
Xander was motivated by jealousy (of Angel) as well as misplaced idea of
protecting Buffy. He had no idea that Angelus would pull the sword out before
Buffy had a chance to kill Buffy. In all likelihood, he figured she would have
killed Angelus before Willow restored his soul.
The point is, neither Jenny nor Xander wanted to hurt Buffy. I'm not saying
that. Maybe had Buffy known, it still would have ended the same way. But maybe
not. The things is that neither of them gave her the chance to decide for
herself. They took it out of her hands, something neither of them had the
right to do.
Pandora
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:52:53 EDT
From: <BuffySumr9@aol.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Xanders Lie and Stupidity In "Becoming"
I totally agree with Pandora on this subject! I used to totally love Xander,
he was my favorite character. That was until he let his stupidity, lying and
emotion cloud his once good judgement.
We all know how much he cares about, possibly even loves, Buffy. He's been
competing w/Angel for Buffy ever since the first few episodes. Any chance he
has had to keep Buffy and Angel apart, he has taken and used to his advantage.
It's clearly evident that he wants to be with Buffy, and he believes that
Angel is standing in his way.
So, the best way for Xandy-boy, in his eyes, would be to let Buffy kill Angel.
You can't entirely blame Angel's 'death' on Xander, but he had a hand in it.
If Buffy had known that Willow was attempting the curse again, she could have
been more attentive to Angelus' wheareabouts and more determined to keep him
from the statue. We know that Buffy would have killed Angel if forced, as she
did. Buffy is a lot stronger emotionally than any of us had ever thought.
So, having Xander tell the truth would not have hurt, it actually could have
helped.
How can you say what Xander said to Giles was right? "Well Jenny's dead!"
How do you say that to someone who is supposed to be your friend, soon after
his girlfriend had died? That's just pathetic and unsensitive, both which
Xander is.
On the subject of Xander risking his life for Buffy and the gang, what about
Angel? Hasn't he risked his life, or unlife, a thousand times over for the
slayerettes? Countless times within these past two seasons, Angel has come
through for the gang and for Buffy. If we're going to get into the "angel -
killed - people - when - he - didn't - have - a - soul" routine, then let me
tell you this: Angelus was not really Angel. The difference between Angel and
Angelus was clear in B2.
Sorry for this rant, but I totally had to get it out.
Lots 'o Luv
Ash :-D
http://members.aol.com/BuffySumr9/sunnydale.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:01:04 -0600
From: Dusty Rhodes <sadecamus@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Beverly Hills Family Robinson
In the Internet Movie Database _Beverly Hill Family Robinson_, a film which
sucked royally, is listed as a 1997 film.
Cyprus
_____________________________________________________________________________
I read somewhere of a shepherd who, when asked why he made, from within
fairy rings, ritual observances to the moon to protect his flocks, replied:
'I'd be a damn' fool if I didn't!' These poems, with all their crudities,
doubts, and confusions, are written for the love of Man and in praise of
God, and I'd be a damn' fool if they weren't.
--Dylan Thomas
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 17:58:32 EDT
From: <csummers@banyan.utelfla.com> (Charles Summers)
Subject: re: BUFFY: Xanders Lie and Stupidity In "Becoming"
I guess I have to reset this take for everyone re Angel:
Buffy is the slayer--the last line of defense between the demons attempting
to overtake our world. She had a major conflict of interest with her
calling when she got involved with Angel, but as is typical for teenagers,
she ignored the risks and did it anyway. Here is a short list of what that
decision has cost:
1. The death of Teresa, one of Buffy's classmates.
2. The death of Jenny Calendar.
3. Xander's busted arm.
4. The death of Kendra. Yes, it was Dru but she was kidnapping Giles for
Angelus.
5. The almost death of Willow in Innocence at Angelus' hand, the almost
death of Xander in BBB at Angelus' hand.
6. Willow's head trauma--see the explanation at #4.
7. Giles kidnap and torture.
8. The world almost being sucked into hell.
So far, Xander has been the only one rational enough to stand up and say,
"hey, let's kill this guy before he strikes again." He may have done it in
an irrational or rude way, but they were sentiments someone needed to
express even if his suggested course of action was to end up being ignored.
Giles has always been motivated by what was best for Buffy, his own
feelings set aside. Xander is not--even if he wants Buffy for himself, his
viewpoint on the death of Angel is a valid one.
As for the times Angel saved the Scoobies, that is not relevant to my
argument that Xander has done more brave things than stupid--it is a
separate argument. And Xander, unlike Angel, possesses no superpowers when
he tries to help--he is taking a much bigger risk.
Geez, can anyone tell I like Xander a lot?
(:
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:06:28 -0600
From: Dusty Rhodes <sadecamus@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Beverly Hills Family Robinson
The release date for the film was January 25, 1997. That means that it was
probably filmed sometime in the summer of '96. Miss Gellar was only
nineteen then.
Cyprus
_____________________________________________________________________________
I read somewhere of a shepherd who, when asked why he made, from within
fairy rings, ritual observances to the moon to protect his flocks, replied:
'I'd be a damn' fool if I didn't!' These poems, with all their crudities,
doubts, and confusions, are written for the love of Man and in praise of
God, and I'd be a damn' fool if they weren't.
--Dylan Thomas
- -
------------------------------
End of buffy-digest V2 #316
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