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From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest)
To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: buffy-digest V2 #50
Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com
Sender: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
buffy-digest Wednesday, January 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 050
In this issue:
Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
BUFFY:SURPISE/INNOCENCE HELP
Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
RE: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
Re: BUFFY: Two Parter - The ring
BUFFY: Is it possible buffy/Angel (spoiler thought)
Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
BUFFY: Wait..I'm a little confused.
Re: BUFFY: Dang you Joss!
Re: BUFFY: Two Parter - The ring
BUFFY: Jenny as betrayer??????
BUFFY: Reactions
Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
Re: BUFFY: Something I've noticed
Re: BUFFY: Buffy Crew?
BUFFY: Jenny's Guilt (was: Too many thoughts)
BUFFY: David Boreanaz
Re: BUFFY: Part 2 SPOILERS --- How long?
Re: BUFFY: Surprise/Innocence - LOTS of comments/spoilers
BUFFY: Buffy - Pagers Maybe???
BUFFY: vamp healing (was Role-Reversal
BUFFY: Joss rules!
BUFFY: Party of Fiends
Re: BUFFY: Luke/The Judge, long lost brothers?
Re: BUFFY: a little theory (related to tonight's eposide, kinda)
BUFFY: Keeper site
BUFFY: In defense of Cordy
Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy
or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:22:34 -0500 (EST)
From: sah <romana@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
At 12:20 PM 1/21/98 -0500, jjswbt@huskynet.com wrote:
>I disagree ..to some degree. If Jenny was sent there to watch Angel..and to
>keep Buffy and Angel apart..then she, I assume, knew that happiness on
>Angel's part was a "bad thing". [snip] It was pretty obvious to everyone
but >Giles that Buffy and Angel were headed exactly where they ended up.
Was she so sure they were heading in that direction? Obviously it's
possible for a mortal and a vampire to have sex, but did Jenny know this?
Was she *really* in a position to keep Angel and Buffy apart? I'm not
really convinced her trying to stop them, or even telling them the truth
would have prevented the inevitable. Also, it wasn't the act itself that
caused Angel to lose his soul--it was the contentment that came with it.
That could have happened at any time, any place, whether they knew about
the specifics of the curse or not.
I still say the only thing she's guilty of is poor judgement, something
*everyone* on the show has been guilty of at one time or another.
>BTW..what kind of silly curse was that anyway? Angel gets his soul back so
>he will suffer. As soon as he stops suffering he goes back to being a
>soulless demon .
Yeah, I have to agree it doesn't make a lot of sense. Better to dust him
if he finds happiness, rather than lose that which gives him some humanity.
It also seems inevitable to me that he *would* lose his soul because the
humanity in him allows for guilt and contentment, and eventually, he was
going to have at least a moment of the latter without the former.
- --sah
- --
sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
NatPack * BotCoS * Jungle Patrol * BBPGrrl:TGLIL * Bishop * BTVS Listowner
Nat's B&B: http://free.prohosting.com/~romana/natpack/html
My homepage: http://free.prohosting.com/~romana/index.html
"I've decided that as much as I want wild sex, right now I'd settle for
someone to clean my house." --jk
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:27:36 -0800
From: "F@llen_@ngel" <disko@syd.auracom.com>
Subject: BUFFY:SURPISE/INNOCENCE HELP
I don't think this is spoiler space. I was wondering...if anyone coul send
me the two episodes on tape???? I'm willing to make an exchange, for just
about anything ($$, blank vid, etc.) Here, both were aired, monday and
tuesday, and because of my mother-who-doesn't-know-how-to-work-a-vcr
screwed up, I only got the dream sequence in 1/1...can anyone help me?
*****************************************************
"Well, you guys don't know. Maybe this time it'll be different."
-Xander
"It's Angel missage."
-Willow
"You know why? I am immature. I'm a teen. I have yet to mature."
-Buffy
*****************************************************
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:41:10 -0500 (EST)
From: tan3@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 jjswbt@huskynet.com wrote:
> If Jenny was sent there to watch Angel..and to
> keep Buffy and Angel apart..then she, I assume, knew that happiness on
> Angel's part was a "bad thing".
See, here's a major point: from her point of view, and from her clan's,
it would be a bad thing for Angel to be happy. They want him to suffer.
Therefore, the original people decided, "Hey, if he gets to start
_liking_ this curse, he'll be happy, we'll be thwarted, and that ain't
our point here." So, they said, "When (If) he ever gets content, the
curse will begone, and the remaining people (from the clan) will deal
with it then" However, this useful piece of knowledge wasn't passed on
to all the members of the clan. I'm more than willing to accept that
jenny didn't know. She knew he shouldn't be happy, but she thought it
was so that vengence would continue to be fulfilled, not so that he would
re-lose his soul. Why can I accept this? I like Jenny, and I'm willing
to give her the benefit of the doubt. Jenny's problem arose that she
began to like both Buffy and Angel and she lost focus on the
vengence-thing, especially when Angel became an ally. So, she thought,
"He's a good guy. Ah, I'll let him have a bit of happiness." without
knowing the full consequences of her actions.
What's my point? Jenny didn't betray Buffy since she didn't have access
to all the information about the curse. If she *did* actually have all
that info, then discard the above message, and put my name on the list of
people who wouldn't mind seeing her stoned to death (the type where you
throw rocks at the victims, people. Keep your minds focused. :) )
Anyway, them's my thoughts.
Tracey
tan3@cornell.edu
Keeper of the Cluelessness of the Rest of the School
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:27:40 -0800
From: "Sai Wong (Exchange)" <saiwong@Exchange.Microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
A bit of spoiler protection ...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
> At 11:01 AM 1/21/98 -0500, Michael Hickerson wrote:
> > My question here is did Jenny really betray Buffy? Yes, she
> >betrayed her oath and didn't warn Buffy, but I don't see it as
> betraying
> >Buffy so much as hoping that things would Angel might work out
> despite the
> >curse.
>
> I agree, this wasn't really a betrayal. In a way, I can understand
> Giles
> being upset with her (it's a neat reversal of their earlier
> situation).
> But I still maintain she didn't do anything wrong except possibly show
> poor
> judgement.
[Sai Wong (Exchange)]
Also when Ms Calender found out about the "Angel being happy
will break the curse" thing
from her Uncle, it was already too late, Buffy and Angel had
already consumated their
relationship and Angel had turned bad. So there was actually
nothing she could have
done to prevent it.
Ms Calender did not put the curse on Angel (her ancesters did)
and did not make him evil
(Buffy and Angels happyness did).
With regard to Buffy and Giles snapping at Ms Calender, I think
that they were both
angry and confused by what had happened and wanted to vent their
anger.
Even when Giles told Ms Calender to "go" he did it in a
controled way.
Giles was angry, yes, but he also understood that if Ms Calender
where in close
proximity to them they might incorrectly lash out at her. They
needed time to
calm down and think things through. Giles, in a way was
protecting both Buffy
and Ms Calender.
> Someone pointed out earlier that Jenny betrayed them by not revealing
> her
> secret. Well, Buffy and Giles and the Slayerettes have secrets too,
> that
> they have to keep from people very important to them. I'm thinking of
> Joyce in particular. Also, Giles was pretty reluctant to talk about
> the
> situation with Ethan when it first cropped up, and certainly never
> mentioned it until it came to a head. I don't think he ever mentioned
> that
> he knew Ethan, but I could be wrong about that.
[Sai Wong (Exchange)]
I don't think Jenny betrayed Buffy. Jenny was given orders to
keep a watch on
Angel. She was not ordered to kill Angel or anything, just keep
a watch on him.
You have to remember that Angel is not a goody two shoes, he
killed MANY
people over the years.
If Jenny had told Buffy about her mission she would have
betrayed her ancesters
and all the victims of the evil Angel. (She would be, in a way,
be helping a killer - Angel)
> All I'm saying is that Jenny didn't do anything in these episodes that
> all
> the other characters haven't done as well. I can understand that
> there are
> hurt feelings, and probably rightly so, but IMO Jenny is *not*
> responsible
> for what happened to Angel, anymore than Buffy and/or Angel are, or
> even
> Giles is for not discouraging them. Nobody really is--it's just
> something
> that happened.
[Sai Wong (Exchange)]
Agreed.
> --sah
>
> sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
> NatPack * Jungle Patrol * Bishop * Bossy the Lost Dwarf * BTVS
> Listowner
> Nat's B&B (moving shortly):
> http://members.aol.com/romana/natpage_stuff/
> "There are billion-dollar fashion and diet and physical-fitness
> industries
> out there. They have a huge investment in making sure women hate
> their
> bodies." --Camryn Manheim
>
> -
[Sai Wong (Exchange)]
Sai
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:26:31 PST
From: "Mz. Gwyn" <priestessworship@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Two Parter - The ring
<<snip snip
Okay... so I am just _waiting_ for him to try and kill her and
then see the ring.>>
Won't happen, she gave the ring back to him, after the whole "I'll call
you, don't call me" scene
Ciao Bellas
Mz. Gwyn
http://www.geocities.com/~mistressgwyn
priestessworship@hotmail.com
lgums@msmc.la.edu
"the opposite of war is not peace, but creation" Mark RENT-the musical
"Whatever is causing the Joan Collins tude, deal with it, embrace the
pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever, but get over it." Cordelia
(WSWB)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:38:36 -0500
From: Python! <jpkane3@ao.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Is it possible buffy/Angel (spoiler thought)
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
You know how Buffy was fighting with Angel and said you are not the real
Angel? Well maybe she wont be sooo mad at him if/when he gets his soal back.
She might know that it is not his fault. But I can bet that they will never
be *together* again. I think that the Buffy and Xander thing will start to
happen and then Angel will get his soal back, but dont count out Cordy
though,(I could be wrong).
^JeNnY^
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:45:40
From: Jeff Rohaly <rohaly@iaw.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
Wendy:
>BTW..what kind of silly curse was that anyway? Angel gets his soul back so
>he will suffer. As soon as he stops suffering he goes back to being a
>soulless demon . Does that sound like a *good* plan? ... Allow me to be
>the first to say "Way to go, fellas."
Allow me to be the second. I never have understood this curse. So the
vampire demon Angelus kills this "dumb as a post" gypsy girl and her clan
decides to punish an entity, Angel's soul, that had nothing to do with this
death. Sure, the demon is punished too because it no longer gets to kill
and feed off human beings and from what it said in Innocence, it's also
hurt by the fact that it has to sit idly by as Angel acts all touchy-feely.
But the real target of this curse seems to be Angel's soul, as witnessed
by the fact that the curse is removed once Angel's soul achieves true
happiness. That seems so unfair. I know the clan was after vengeance not
justice but I think a simple "make blood taste like garlic" curse on
Angelus would have gotten things done. Wouldn't have made for good TV,
I'll grant you.
On another note, has Joss ever said how far in advance the stories are
planned out? For instance, do you think that Jenny's secret background was
set when her character was first introduced last year or whether that was
decided later as a way to advance the Angel going bad storyline? What
about the length of time before Angel's soul is restored? Do you all think
that's set in stone or whether Joss and TPTB are open to seeing how it goes
(both with respect to good stories coming out of it as well as fan
reaction) and adjusting the story as need be?
Jeff Rohaly
rohaly@iaw.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:52:23 EST
From: aurora01@juno.com (Annie L)
Subject: BUFFY: Wait..I'm a little confused.
I loved this episode. It was uspetting though. I thought the person to
betray Buffy was going to be Jenny and not Angel. But anyway, I'm a
little confused with something. Did Angel know about the curse and how it
could be lifted? If he did, do you think he just slept with Buffy just to
be a vampire again? Just a thought...
Annie L., Aurora01@juno.com
Keeper of Buffy's Library Card, Cordelia's Summer Make-up kit and Allure
Magazine and Willow's Adidas Backpack
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:30:03 EST
From: VampSlayr6 <VampSlayr6@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Dang you Joss!
Me being a big Buffy/Angel fan all I have to say is ::sniff,sniff::
::cry,cry:: ::sob like buffy,sob like buffy:: I felt a void after last
night's episode and I didn't like it. But I'm still faithful to the show and
no matter how much Angelus is going to bug me I'm still going to wish he was
the same old Angel that loves Buffy. Enough rambling, I'm finished, I guess.
Beth
Keeper of some cool quotes
Buffy's "I can't take care of things! I killed my Giga Pet. Literally. I sat
on it and it broke." (which i actually did today by the way, not sat on but
left him home when i went to school)
Giles' "Trout? Trout! Yes, uh, trout is-is a fish."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:04:40 -0500
From: Annie <jamesmcarrell@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Two Parter - The ring
Nicoley99 wrote:
> that ring he gave Buffy. "the heart signifies love, and
> when its facing towards you, it means you belong to someone".
i just saw a girl I used to be friends with and she had the same ring,
but I didn't have time to ask her where she got it
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:26:01 -0800
From: Dan Compora <dcompora@monroe.lib.mi.us>
Subject: BUFFY: Jenny as betrayer??????
I'm surprised that some of you still see Jenny as the betrayer. Jenny
really didn't betray Buffy--it was Angel who turned on her. Jenny
certainly had a hidden agenda, but she did nothing to hurt Buffy, albeit
she should have shared her information sooner. She had her own conflict to
deal with--she may have been inconsiderate, but I wouldn't call her actions
betrayal.
I hope this Gypsy storyline goes somewhere. Angel could have "turned" on
Buffy without the Jenny/gypsy storyline, which appears to have been just a
red herring. I hope they pick up this aspect in a future episode.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:20:52 EST
From: DaisyFoo14 <DaisyFoo14@aol.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Reactions
Wow! Oh, wowowowowowow!!!! That was such an incredible episode!!! I was
shaking (not staking) throughout the final 3/4, and sobbing at the end. First
I was really upset that he was still the evil Angel at the end, but once I
thought it over, it was a perfect ending. It was just so tasteful,
sophisticated, and I could not stop crying. Just let it burn......(or
something like that...) Innocence was just too perfect. Everything was
perfectly done...everyone's performance was just....perfect! Everything
perfect, perfect, perfect! That talk with Giles in the car...oh! This had a
very PG feel, and is tied for my favorite episode w/ PG and Angel. I tend to
like these emotional episodes, the ones that make me cry. Joss, thank you,
thank you, thank you! This was a beautifully crafted episode. You are a God.
Alli T:DaisyFoo14@aol.com-GASPer-Keeper: C's cell phone,sparkle purse, light
blue silk dress, X's Tweety Bird watch,Scooby Doo Shirt, robe in trash,
newspaper @ Bronze, B's purple-pink lamp,green sunglasses,suitcases, W's light
blue rolly hat, maroon quarterback shirt, green and blue V-neck sweater,
Giles' dict. stand, Jenny's circle-chain belt. "Think of something cool, tell
him I said it."-Buffy,PG
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:26:30 -0500
From: Mark <markwithak@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
jjswbt@huskynet.com wrote:
> BTW..what kind of silly curse was that anyway? Angel gets his soul back so
> he will suffer. Does that sound like a *good* plan? ..they make Angel
> suffer for 90 years and *then* let a ravening demon back into the world.
> Allow me to be the first to say "Way to go, fellas." <sheesh>
I *love* this!! And "silly" doesn't even begin to cover it:
Suppose I am totally evil, and I attack you and capture your home and
lock you in the cellar. Then, using your home as a base of operations,
I start systematically killing everyone in the neighborhood. You are
locked in the cellar, subjugated and oblivious, and powerless to do a
single thing about my evil rampage.
Then some members of the tribe of a young woman I've killed decide that
the way to make *me* suffer is to let *you* out of the cellar so that
*you* can be properly horrified and feel suitably guilty about what
*I've* done against your will, living in your house. And meanwhile,
they keep *me* chained in your house so that I can make matters worse by
attacking you periodically, just for fun. Then (the coup de grace of
psychotic illogic), they arrange it so that the moment you experience
any happiness whatever, they'll kill *you* and give the house back to
*me* -- the actual source of their grievances -- so I can go on yet
another rampage, killing yet more innocent people. Well, that's fair.
Yep. Way to go, fellas!!
Mark
- --
markwithak@mindspring.com
keeper of Willow's diffidence
- ------------------------------------
"it could be me...it's not, though."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:27:09 EST
From: BBallGrrl4 <BBallGrrl4@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Something I've noticed
In a message dated 98-01-20 00:21:53 EST, you write:
<< <This is a bit off topic, but speaking of "Dawson's Creek", Dawson's guy
friend in the show is in "Scream 2", he can be seen arguing it in film class.
>
He's also in "The Mighty Ducks" that's where he got his start. >>
Just a bit more to that tidbit: his name's Joshua Jackson (charlie in those
ducks movies that I used to be so obsessed with when i was little)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:11:50 EST
From: BBallGrrl4 <BBallGrrl4@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy Crew?
In a message dated 98-01-19 12:57:53 EST, you write:
Buffy Crew (east coast) and haven't received word of it. I was wondering if
someone from the crew could contact me? I live in NJ. >>
If you get any info on potential NJ Buffy crews could ya send it my way? I
live in Essex..
Thanks
~Caroline
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:50:10 +0000
From: "Amy Sheldon" <Amy.Sheldon@sff.net>
Subject: BUFFY: Jenny's Guilt (was: Too many thoughts)
This does contain spoilers for Surprise and Innocence,
so those who haven't seen it should stop reading now.
Michael Hickerson <mhickers@USIT.NET writes (and how nice of him
to keep his comment at the four lines allowable for quoting!):
> My question here is did Jenny really betray Buffy? Yes, she
> betrayed her oath and didn't warn Buffy, but I don't see it as
> betraying Buffy so much as hoping that things would Angel might work
> out despite the curse.
Jenny can't be faulted for keeping her mission of watching Angel a
secret. Yeah, in retrospect it was a mistake, but as many people have
pointed out, most of the characters in BtVS have been caught keeping
secrets that later caused problems. If she had come clean
immediately, there would have been an initial reaction of shock and
anger, but everyone would have realized fairly quickly that it really
couldn't be considered her "fault" that Angel had lost his soul,
since she didn't know that Angel's relationship with Buffy could
break the curse (and from the conversation we saw that she had with
her uncle, it looks like she really *didn't* know what would happen).
Where she screwed up, and what is going to keep both Buffy and Giles
angry at her for a while, is in not telling them what had happened to
Angel as soon as she had found out from her uncle. If nothing else,
she should have told them immediately after Angel attacked Willow. That
probably would have saved her uncle's life, since you know that Buffy
would have insisted upon going to him immediately, and they might
have beaten Angel to the hotel room.
By waiting until she was forced to tell, she made it a lot harder for
Buffy and company to believe that she truly didn't know what would
happen to Angel if the curse was broken. And by not telling, she gave
Buffy a REALLY bad night. Sure, it would be incredibly
guilt-producing to know that his love for you made your boyfriend SO
happy that he lost his soul; but it would be a lot better than thinking
that you'd been so bad in bed that he was driven back to vampirism....
The only way I can see that she could make up for this would be if
she were instrumental in returning Angel to the side of light. On the
other hand, in Real Life, totally innocent people frequently mess up
their lives and are never able to make things right, so maybe we are
seeing the end of Ms. Calendar's tenure on BtVS.
- ------
Amy Sheldon
Member GASP - Giles Appreciation Society Panters
Proud Buffyatric & Keeper of The Accent
Amy.Sheldon@sff.net
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 17:06:49 PST
From: jphelan@radware.net (Jim Phelan)
Subject: BUFFY: David Boreanaz
Hey everyone!! I looked in the TV Guide and it didn't ever say when
David was going 2 be on Keenan Ivory Wayans. Does anyone know
4 sure when he's going 2 be on there? PLEASE tell me.
THANKS,
Laura
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:58:04 EST
From: BBallGrrl4 <BBallGrrl4@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Part 2 SPOILERS --- How long?
In a message dated 98-01-21 11:34:02 EST, you write:
<< I don't care as long as they don't kill him and they do it soon.
>>
for everyone going to the David chat tonight, I'd have to say that if/how/and
when they'll bring him back is the best question to ask....im definitely dying
to know..I mean David is a great actor either way but I can't stand to see him
hurt Buffy anymore....All i know is that if he is killed off, there will be a
huge void in my Buffness seeing as he is one of my favorite characters..just
my two cents..
~Caroline
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:13:04 EST
From: Jillium5 <Jillium5@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Surprise/Innocence - LOTS of comments/spoilers
ok here's some space in case
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
>One question it brought to mind was Xander the monkey in
>the dream?
No I don't believe he was. Do you remeber the whole sceen with Oz where her
was saying somthing like. "You know the monkey is the only animal cracker
with pants and I wonder if he's all like I mock you with my monkey pants" and
he says that in a french accent and willow says "the monkey's french" and oz
replies "of course all monkeys are french
Ok now on to the ep. I think we'll see the evil angel for a while it will
creat tension. And I think what's going to happen once he gets his soul back
is he will be so guilty for all that he did and said to buffy he won't be able
to face her. It will take a long time for their relationship to heal.
Oz can I even express how much I LOVE him and willow. The whole sceen where
they're in the van. You would not believe how much I was wimpering I was
thinking to myself why can't I ever meet someone as sweet and funny as oz but
that's a whole other topic that you don't care about. The Linolium makes me
want to have sex from Xander and the You hold your gun like a sissy had me
rotf. GREAT JOB JOSS that was the best show yet...and I can't wait till next
week with the werewolf. I hope that if oz really is the werewolf somehow he
still gets to stick around because it said in the previews that buffy protect
the WW from poachers. But judging from the sceens last night after buffy who
knows.
Jill
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:16:33 -0700
From: "Flora Connor" <flora.c@mailexcite.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Buffy - Pagers Maybe???
There's one thing that keeps bugging me about that last Buffy episode... These people
can find any damn thing they need on the web, they can reprogram computers and hack
into anything, they can break into and get away with stealing from US Army posts.
Why the hell doesn't eveyone have a little thing like a beeper? I mean, come on,
for Crist's sake. Every teenager from here to Canada wears one 24/7. And Buffy,
the all mighty Slayer who is needed at a moment's notice, can't get a Motorolla going?
The whole time that Giles and the gang were in the library going "Where's Buffy?!!?"
I couldn't get that out of my head.
Anyway, that's my rant for today....
Flora
- ---
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:24:58 -0600
From: Mia_McDavid@em.fcnbd.com
Subject: BUFFY: vamp healing (was Role-Reversal
The question of vamp healing was brought up.
I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that they heal sort of like
people do.
If it's broken, slashed, or burnt, it can heal. But, if it's gone,
it's gone.
OK, let's get really gross here. If you cut a vamp open and
eviscerated it, would the cavity close up and the vamp walk around
without its guts? Would they regenerate? Here is a place where vamp
unkillability pushes the situation into a new direction.
Mia
I *LOVE* this show~
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:16:22 -0600
From: Mia_McDavid@em.fcnbd.com
Subject: BUFFY: Joss rules!
OK, guys, my email server must be messed up, because I have *no* new
msgs about Innocence today, and I know you all are talking!
Anyway, I'm gonna talk about it, so if you haven't watched *what the
heck are you waiting for???*
There were so many things that were SO cool. A curse with a
self-destruct mechanism. Incredible. And that stupid, STUPID uncle,
not telling Jenny what would really happen. And then not thinking
about the danger to himself. Stupid, stupid, dead dead.
Poor Jenny. Not evil. Just mislead by her people, and now so
rejected for it. Even Giles: "She said, 'Get out.'"
DB must be relishing this chance to flex his acting muscles some.
Glee, scorn, mockery, aren't things he's been able to do much with on
this show. He was so incredible, wonderfully *vile* the first time he
saw Buffy!
Buffy's dream after she cried herself to sleep--about Angel in the
sunlight, did anybody else think that was *him* trying to reach her,
trying to help? His real self, the only part that can withstand the
day? Will his soul visit her again in the coming months, offering
guidance and comfort?
Giles was so wonderful at the end--everything a Watcher and mentor
should be. I could have kissed him!
Oz is worthy! I wasn't sure before, but he was so wise and so gentle
with Willow in the van. It would serve Xander right if Willow
actually learned to love him.
Oh, I could go on and ON. Bless Joss Weedon. I knew he wouldn't let
us down!
Mia
I *LOVE* this show~
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:33:01 -0800
From: Lisa Rose <cybrpaws@wco.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Party of Fiends
It's kinda strange, but here are some "Little Buffy" movie
synopses that were suggested to me and written months before
the spoilers for this two-part episode were ever leaked.
These two have turned out to be strangely prophetic:
1. BUFFY AND THE BEAST - A wild and happy-go-lucky vampire is
cursed by bitter gypsies with the return of his guilt-ridden
human soul. Now he spends all his days brooding in a lonely
apartment. Only the freely given love of a beautiful young
woman (the town's slayer) can lift the curse and return him
to his former crazy and carefree ways. At which point she'll
have to kill him....
11. DESPERATELY SEEKING DARLA - Angelus the Vampire has been
released from that pesky gypsy curse that restored his human
soul by the liberating love of a beautiful young slayer whom
he suckered into falling for him. Now with the curse and the
slayer out of the way, he frantically searches for his old partner
in crime and former supernatural squeeze, Darla, the "Belle of
Budapest." His excitement grows as he races to the underground,
eager to re-consummate their relationship, already hearing her
deadly dulcet tones again in his mind. Then he halts in horror,
remembering to his dismay that he killed her. Doh!
(The Little Buffy Site is at: http://www.wco.com/~cybrpaws/lilbuffy.html)
Speaking of Darla, I bet Angelus IS mad that the darned slayer
influenced him to kill her. So is Spike. If Darla were still
around, Angelus would have a romantic diversion away from Drusilla.
Heck, they could even double-date! (Angel & Darla, Spike & Dru).
As it stands, I thought it was kinda interesting for that moment
when Angel, Dru, & Spike were like a family again after he lost
his soul and returned to them, a demonic Party of Five,
"Party of Fiends"?
But agreed that it probably can't last. Spike is going to get
jealous if the powerful, hunky Angelus horns-in on his woman.
And he's already bitter and reduced to manipulation, sitting in
his little wheelchair (like the kid from The Secret Garden?),
the poor thing. How pathetic was it that the formerly
terrifying William-the-Bloody had to hide from the Slayerettes
when they showed up at the warehouse? It must have been
humiliating for him.
Lisa
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:21:21 EST
From: Jillium5 <Jillium5@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Luke/The Judge, long lost brothers?
When I first saw the judge an odd thought poped into my head. I couldn't get
over that he was the samw color as windshield wiper fluid
I'm odd but that's ok
Jill
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:20:56 EST
From: BBallGrrl4 <BBallGrrl4@aol.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: a little theory (related to tonight's eposide, kinda)
In a message dated 98-01-19 22:35:40 EST, you write:
<< Now I think Drusilla is that gypsy girl. >>
I was thinking that too...and I had all these great reasons which were drained
from my head due to late night midterm cramming...did anyone else notice that
the gypsy clan was named the Romanin anymore? just musing..
~Caroline
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:25:21 EST
From: Jillium5 <Jillium5@aol.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Keeper site
Can someone send me the adress to the keeper site for minor characters/(Oz if
there is one) thanks
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:15:33 -0500
From: John Nestoriak <jnestoriak@telecnnct.com>
Subject: BUFFY: In defense of Cordy
Spoilers for all eps up to Innocence.
I've been a long-time defender of the hidden virtues of Cordelia. I've
always felt that she has a lot of depth that she's intentionally or
otherwise hiding from people. And so the Xander/Cordy pairing was a
good thing in my book. They're both really characters who hide behind a
public face that doesn't reveal who they are. Xander has his joking and
Cordy has her popularity and self centeredness.
Now I have to admit that my confidence in this was shaken by Cordy's
response to Xander in Surprise. When he suggests that they "come out of
the closet" (couldn't resist) her response I so harsh that I got the
impression that she really was just using him out of her lust. In
Innocence she redeems herself a bit.
Two key scenes. First Cordy and Xander in the army base. She shows a
lot more innocence than I would have thought. Perhaps our Cordy isn't
as "experienced" as many had previously assumed. And her genuine
compliment toward Xander was great.
But more importantly the kiss and make up scene in the library.
Cordelia's comment about how Xander would risk death for Buffy but
wouldn't for her shows her own genuine care for Xander and his feelings
and also her own insecurity. Cordelia seems to be driven by a rather
low self-esteem. A lack of feeling lovable.
I continue to have high hopes for Xander and Cordelia's future
relationship and will proudly continue to oppose all who would besmirch
the good name of the fair Cordelia. (tongue firmly inserted in cheek)
- --
John Nestoriak * "My shoes are too tight, but it
Software Engineer * doesn't matter because I have
The Telephone Connection * forgotten how to dance."
jnestoriak@telecnnct.com * - Londo Mollari (Babylon 5)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:15:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Amber <aberman1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Too many thoughts (all about Innocence! SPOILERS)
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Mark wrote:
> any happiness whatever, they'll kill *you* and give the house back to
> *me* -- the actual source of their grievances -- so I can go on yet
> another rampage, killing yet more innocent people. Well, that's fair.
> Yep. Way to go, fellas!!
::nods head vigorously:: Allow me to add my $0.02 worth on this one
myself, as I couldn't help but be absolutely *furious* with teh people who
did this to Angel--two wrongs do not make a right, no matter how good it
may seem at the time and how hurt you are at the time.
Here's my thoughts on what should be done for Angel (AKA the eclectic
technopagan's version):
A second curse is only going to make matters worse. He needs a
"blessing," not a curse, and a good dose of healing afterwards. Why do I
say this? Well, the dead giveaway to his current condition was when the
Judge said that Spike and Drusilla "reeked of humanity...full of affection
and jealousy" and didn't feel an itch from Angel. Spike and Drusilla have
more humanity than Angel now??? Great. Just great. Nice and thorough
job of "house cleaning". :P
Soul retrival, when done properly, isn't a huge deal...if you know what
you're doing, that is, and you know the details. Finding someone who is
strong and knowledgable enough to help Angel shouldn't be terribly
difficult--you could find any type of esoteric worker in Sunnydale, I
would think...considering it's right on the Hellmouth, I don't think that
people can survive without being a) totally psi-blind or b) sensitive and
knowledgable enough to knwo what to do in case...well, you know.
They should get someone who's a good healer...a nice trip to the
underworld never hurt anyone, huh?
* Amber *
* Amber SilverWolf/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar/Elektra/O'mra *
* *
* http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7969 -Amber's Domain *
* http://members.tripod.com/~Lolandrea/ -Castle Amber *
* http://www.angelfire.com/ny/samilani -Samilani *
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