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From: buffy-owner@xmission.com (buffy Digest)
To: buffy-digest@xmission.com
Subject: buffy Digest V1 #325
Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com
Sender: buffy-owner@xmission.com
Errors-To: buffy-owner@xmission.com
Precedence:
buffy Digest Thursday, September 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 325
In this issue:
Re: BUFFY: Spike reminds me of someone....
BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
Re: BUFFY: SAR (Should be Some Entertainment Required)
BUFFY: Ages of series viewers...
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Re: BUFFY: Merrick in the seriesverse
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
BUFFY: buffy books
Re: BUFFY: Movie v. Series (Merrick, etc.)
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
Re: BUFFY: Hero Worship
Re: BUFFY: Spike reminds me of someone....
Re: BUFFY: Movie v. Series (Merrick, etc.)
Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Re: BUFFY: Spike reminds me of someone....
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Re: BUFFY: Spike reminds me of someone....
BUFFY: History of Movie to series
Re: BUFFY: Is Angel in next wk's ep?
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
Re: BUFFY: History of Movie to series
Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
BUFFY: SMG mentioned on Conan O'Brien
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
BUFFY: Website Update - New Urls
Re: BUFFY: SPOILER FOR SAR-Daryl's grave
Re: BUFFY: tapes
Re: BUFFY: Movie v. Series (Merrick, etc.)
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy
or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:25:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Amanda <aca203@is8.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Spike reminds me of someone....
> Could be. My initial thought on seeing him was, why are they trying to
> make the new villain look and sound (admittedly pretty darn badly) like
> Sting?
> jb
Where did you get Sting from. That's really interesting but I thought he
looked more like Keifer Sutherland from The Lost Boys.
PoizonIvy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:32:40 +0000
From: Dan Compora <dcompora@monroe.lib.mi.us>
Subject: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
I watched WSWB again yesterday and noticed these things--I don't think all
of these have been mentioned.
At the end, Buffy's cross (when she enters the classroom)appears to be
upside down. I backed it up several times, and it really looks like it is
upside down. Anyone else notice?
Also, in the BITKA scene, Giles is holding a can of pop that appears to be
Coke, but you can't read the label. He takes a sip, makes an awful face
and looks at the can like he just drank something awful. I wonder if this
was a slam against the pop company for not paying for advertising. It
really is pointless, but the look was priceless.
Cordelia disappears completely after being cut down in the final battle
sequences. Angel fall through the floor with another Vamp, Giles pairs of
with Jenny C, and Willow pairs off with Xander--but there is no Cordy in
sight.
There was a flaw I didn't detect the first time I watched it. When Cordy is
kidnapped outside of the Bronze, she is thrown in a room with Ms Calendar.
The next day at school, there is absolutely no mention of Ms. Calendar not
showing up for work. Now I am certain she didn't call in sick, so I am
sure the faculty would have known about her sudden disappearance--certainly
the kids in her first hour class would have. You would think the Buffy
Crew would have viewed this as important.
Finally, at the beginning of the episode, the camera pans down into the
school hallways. A kid is at a vending machine that cleary isn't
working--there is no light on. He starts fiddling with a knob without
putting any money in. Is the budget for the show that tight:-)
Dan
Keeper of Cordelia's Gatorade Cup (though when I watched that part again,
the jug didn't day Gatorade, so it could have been water:-(
dcompora@monroe.lib.mi.us
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:32:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Amanda <aca203@is8.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: SAR (Should be Some Entertainment Required)
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Lisa Rose wrote:
>Re: The offhanded way Buffy offed the vamp at the beginning
> Her romantic interests seemed to
> make her weaker and more vulnerable to her enemies.
Actually I took this scene to be a sign of some residual effects of her
fight with the Master. In PG he made a crack at her tendency to make fun
of the vampires, be witty, etc,, etc.. I think his point mede her think
about the way she fights vamps and her tendency to not be casual anymore
is due to the Master. She was traumatized by it and has redconsidered her
fighting style. IMHO-it doesn't have to do with romance.
- -PoizonIvy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 9:24:39 -0500
From: Harold Hutchison <HHUTCHISON@cornell-iowa.edu>
Subject: BUFFY: Ages of series viewers...
Speaking of ages...
I got a German professor here who is near the end of middle age (at
least) - and he watches the Buffster...
Harold Hutchison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:35:05 -0400
From: sah <romana@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
At 02:04 AM 9/25/97 -0700, you wrote:
>The shouldn't the fact that Merrick has never been mentioned also be
>canon? We may be able to specualate that she had another watcher, but
>since the movie isn't part of the series, it doesn't make sense to
>speculate that it was someone named Merrick
Actually, IMO, it makes perfect sense to assume that Merrick was her
previous watcher because of the movie. We have a name and a specific
character, even though he hasn't been specifically mentioned in the series.
I'd agree with exactly what you're saying if the movie had never happened.
And I'll just add that if Joss were to keep *anything* from the movie, I
hope it would be Merrick. What a *great* character. It would be a true
shame to lose him from that universe.
- --sah
- --
sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
NatPack * BotCoS * JunglePatrol * Bishop * CartoonSharon * Clumsy Dwarf
The Buffy Mailing List page: http://www.mindspring.com/~romana/buffylist/
Of doctors and medicines we have in plenty more than enough...what you may,
for the Love of God, send is some large quantity of beer.
--Dispatch from the Colony, New South Wales, 1854
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:01:56 -0400
From: Jesse Jou <jjou@mail.med.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Merrick in the seriesverse
At 10:35 AM -0400 9/25/97, sah wrote:
>And I'll just add that if Joss were to keep *anything* from the movie, I
>hope it would be Merrick. What a *great* character. It would be a true
>shame to lose him from that universe.
Just to add another possibility. It may be that a character named Merrick
did exist as TV Buffy's first watcher, but did not behave or end up like
Movie Merrick. I mean, Joss retconned Movie Buffy into TV Buffy, why not
retcon Movie Merrick into TV Merrick?
I know Joss has said that Merrick and Pike don't exist in the TV-verse, but
perhaps he meant Merrick and Pike in the sense of their existence in the
movie (which I think is just about everybody's point of reference for these
characters)? Maybe we'll never find out. To the undead list with ye,
question of hell.
I'm reading this over and wondering if this makes sense...
JJ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:02:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Smurf6942@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
In a message dated 97-09-25 10:44:22 EDT, you write:
<< And I'll just add that if Joss were to keep *anything* from the movie, I
hope it would be Merrick. What a *great* character. It would be a true
shame to lose him from that universe. >>
But Merrick died in the movie. Are you suggesting that Merrick could advise
Buffy from the Great Beyond? Please, say it isn't so. That would just be
TOO cliche. Would he be Obi-Wan-Merrick? I don't see Joss doing that kind
of thing.
- -----Smurf
Smurf 6942@aol.com
Keeper of Buffy's faith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:11:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: YAEditor@aol.com
Subject: BUFFY: buffy books
Here's a complete list of the Buffy books:
#1 THE HARVEST (a novelization of the pilot)
#2 HALLOWEEN RAIN (an original story, It's a Sunnydale Halloween. Enough
said.)
#3 COYOTE MOON (the 2nd original story, A carnival comes to town and strange
things happen)
#4 NIGHT OF THE LIVING RERUN (the 3rd original story, Buffy and friends
re-enact a crucial moment in the Master's history)
Feel free to e-mail me with questions.
yaeditor@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:28:33 -0700
From: Lawless <lawless@netside.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Movie v. Series (Merrick, etc.)
Slayer5454@aol.com wrote:
> not existing in the Buffyverse are two entirely different concepts. They are
> part of her past and not part of the series. Therefore, they could exist,
> but they are irrelevant to what is happening to her now. We do know that she
> was a slayer before, and had a previous Watcher, why couldn't it have been
> Merrick, Buffy never named her former Watcher did she?
Okay I was a little unclear about my statement that "Merrick had nothing
to do with the series." Joss' words were to the effect of "Merrick and
Pike never existed in the series." I can't remember his exact words but
what he was tring to say was that they don't exist in the buffyverse and
never have existed. He never liked the character of Pike to begin with
and only put him in because the producers wanted him to. I'm not going
to get deeply involved with theories and parallel Buffy worlds here, but
I wasn't confused in any way when Joss stated and it was pretty evident
that he was trying to say that they aren't and never have been part of
the series. He said the only concept he wanted people to carry over
from the movie was the idea of a girl named Buffy who kills vampires and
that he wanted to build from there. I know some people really want
there to be the chance of a Merrick and Pike badly but you can't really
look any deeper than the creator's words. Unless there's something he
doesn't know about (I don't see how that could happen). If Joss had
wanted there to be a transition from the movie to the series I believe
he would have focused on it a little more in the first episode. He
doesn't want people to envision the characters of Pike, Merrick, and
Lothos (whatever the master's name was) so he doesn't mention them.
He's not trying to hide anything here or build up for any surprise
episode.
Lawless
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:46:27 -0700
From: Lawless <lawless@netside.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
sah wrote:
> Actually, IMO, it makes perfect sense to assume that Merrick was her
> previous watcher because of the movie. We have a name and a specific
> character, even though he hasn't been specifically mentioned in the series.
I'm not really sure if I understand what canon is, but I thought that
you guys were trying to say that canon is when something has to be
mentioned or relate to the series in order to be accepted. The movie
universe and the series universe are not the same and don't connect
with each other since half of the events are conflicting. How can it
make sense to think that Merrick existed? If you were taking the
approach to the series without the previous knowledge of the movie,
which IMO is the way it should be looked at, then it doesn't make sense
to speculate that characters that have never been mentioned before in
that universe could have existed. The movie was made by a different
company than the one that made the series. Given the writer and creator
were the same, but would I don't think you can fairly make judgements
about the series based on a movie, which is very different. As an
example, can you assume that the events that happened in the Brady Bunch
movie also relate to the series? The next time a Brady Bunch reunion
comes out would you approcah it thinking that all the ludicrous events
that took place in the movie have already occured, even though one is
rather serious in nature and the other is an outright parody (recall
that Buffy: The Movie was actually a parody of the way things are in the
series, which was Joss' original idea). Can we also assume that
whatever events happen in the Buffy novels occur in the series? This may
sound incredibly hypothetical but it's really not. This may sound
strange because they're two different mediums, but so are film and
television. Lastly, remember that the series is actually closer to
Joss' original concept of Buffy. Just because it came out first doesn't
give it value as the originator. Joss came up with the idea of Buffy
almost 10 years ago, and since the series is the complete portrayal of
how he wants the Buffy Universe to be, I don't think you can say that
the events which occured in a parody of his idea, directed and driven by
someone else, can exist without showing evidence to support it
(something more evident than Buffy simply "mentioning a past watcher,"
which, by the way, is about one of the only things in the series that
actually coincides with the movie and doesn't outright conflict with
it).
So please post some views/criticism about what I've said so I can see
what your opinions on it are.
Lawless
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:52:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Betsy Vera <bentley@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Dan Compora wrote:
> At the end, Buffy's cross (when she enters the classroom)appears to be
> upside down. I backed it up several times, and it really looks like it is
> upside down. Anyone else notice?
I thought so, too, but if you look really close, you can tell it just
looks that way because the cross is not hanging from the main necklace.
It's actually hanging from a bit of chain that is hanging from the
necklace. Did that make any sense? The cross is dangling from the dangly
bit. Dangly bit makes the upright of the cross look longer than it really
is.
> Also, in the BITKA scene, Giles is holding a can of pop that appears to be
> Coke, but you can't read the label. He takes a sip, makes an awful face
> and looks at the can like he just drank something awful. I wonder if this
> was a slam against the pop company for not paying for advertising. It
> really is pointless, but the look was priceless.
Again, I thought the same for a while (about it being a can of Coke,
since it's the same color). Someone suggested it was Brisk (iced tea)--I
didn't think so, at first, because I thought their cans were blue, but
right under his fingers you can see what might be the letters BR running
up the side of the can. If it is iced tea, his reaction makes sense. To a
man used to real tea, I'm sure the taste of canned iced tea was not at all
what he was expecting.
> Cordelia disappears completely after being cut down in the final battle
> sequences. Angel fall through the floor with another Vamp, Giles pairs of
> with Jenny C, and Willow pairs off with Xander--but there is no Cordy in
> sight.
I think she's still unconscious. You can see her head on the floor behind
Xander, to the right of Giles when Calendar crawls over to him.
> The next day at school, there is absolutely no mention of Ms. Calendar not
> showing up for work. Now I am certain she didn't call in sick, so I am
> sure the faculty would have known about her sudden disappearance--certainly
> the kids in her first hour class would have. You would think the Buffy
> Crew would have viewed this as important.
Good point. Hadn't noticed that.
Betsy -- bentley@umich.edu
Fanfic Resources: www-personal.umich.edu/~bentley/fanfic/fanfic.html
"Once I had a life--now I have a modem" -- Jeanne DeVore
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:56:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: PalOBuffys@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Hero Worship
In a message dated 97-09-25 02:36:53 EDT, James Bjorkman wrote:
<< Buffy and the Slayerettes saving the entire school from destruction - *if*
that is what the promos suggest - could turn them from underground
hipsters into Big Slayers On Campus (I mean, how could everyone just
forget that?). >>
Seems to me they saved the patrons of the Bronze from systematic sacrifice
and Cordelia & Co. remembered it as being rival gangs. Buffy and the
Slayerettes didn't garner any new respect after that incident. Of course, it
could be painfully obvious to the student body that Spike and Druscilla are
something much more terrifying, we'll just have to wait and see now, won't
we?
Mike (PalOBuffys@aol.com)
Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear
Keeper of Buffy's beeper
Keeper of Little Buffy's Bubblegum Pink Bicycle (with handlebar streamers
and automated stake dispenser)
"The part that gets me though, is where Buffy is the Vampire Slayer.
She's so little." --- Ms. Calendar
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:56:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: PalOBuffys@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Spike reminds me of someone....
In a message dated 97-09-25 00:03:30 EDT, you write:
<< Am I the only one who thinks the glimpse of Spike we got in the preview
this week is reminiscent of a certain tall, lean, bleach-blond,
British-accented evil vampire with a fondness for trenchcoats from
another series? >>
Um, I don't watch enough TV to have a good answer for this, but in watching
the promos I was thinking Billy Idol.
Mike (PalOBuffys@aol.com)
Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear
Keeper of Buffy's beeper
Keeper of Little Buffy's Bubblegum Pink Bicycle (with handlebar streamers
and automated stake dispenser)
"It's funny how the earth never opens up and swallows you when you want it
to."
--- Xander Harris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:08:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: James Bjorkman <bjorkman@aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Movie v. Series (Merrick, etc.)
On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Lawless wrote:
> He said the only concept he wanted people to carry over
> from the movie was the idea of a girl named Buffy who kills vampires and
> that he wanted to build from there.
I really hope people can just accept this sensible position and move on.
This is getting to be like the hard time I did on some of the Star Trek
groups - Is "Scotty's Official Engineering Manual" canon? Are the
novelizations? Unproduced scripts? Offhand comments muttered by Gene
Roddenberry on his way to the john?
Disputes over what is canon and what isn't are just so pointless and
sterile. Everyone should just watch and enjoy and stop trying to be
the canon police. These questions about this Buffy's former watcher are
surely going to be answered in due course, and if they aren't, who cares?
That just means that watcher - who could also be named Merrick but will
most certainly then be a DIFFERENT Merrick - has no current importance.
But doubtless this thread will spiral on and on and on....
Oh, and I heard "mated with" clear as a bell. ;) ;)
jb
"Nobody has suffered like I have suffered."
Cordelia
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:16:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: PalOBuffys@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
In a message dated 97-09-25 10:34:39 EDT, Dan wrote:
<< Finally, at the beginning of the episode, the camera pans down into the
school hallways. A kid is at a vending machine that cleary isn't
working--there is no light on. He starts fiddling with a knob without
putting any money in. Is the budget for the show that tight:-) >>
We've long known the kids at Sunnydale to be a bit clueless at times (there's
even a Keeper of Sunnydale High's Cluelessness, or something to that effect),
and maybe this kid was just King of the Clueless. Mmmmmmm, could be!
Mike (PalOBuffys@aol.com)
Keeper of Buffy's little white teddy bear
Keeper of Buffy's beeper
Keeper of Little Buffy's Bubblegum Pink Bicycle (with handlebar streamers
and automated stake dispenser)
"The part that gets me though, is where Buffy is the Vampire Slayer.
She's so little." --- Ms. Calendar
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:29:39 -0400
From: Jesse Jou <jjou@mail.med.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
At 11:46 AM -0700 9/25/97, Lawless wrote:
>How can it make sense to think that Merrick existed? If you were taking the
>approach to the series without the previous knowledge of the movie,
>which IMO is the way it should be looked at, then it doesn't make sense
>to speculate that characters that have never been mentioned before in
>that universe could have existed.
I think you're right on the money, Lawless, but it seems the spirit of
these Merrick speculations really returns to Lisa Rose's (among other's
who've noted this in the past) point that someone must have trained Buffy
prior to her tutelage under Giles. Maybe we've been using the Merrick name
as a proxy for this mysterious mentor. For all we know her previous
Watcher could have been named Jenny Anydots or Humbert Humbert (now
*there's* someone who should be watching underage girls...Lolita the
Vampire Slayer, anyone?), but I suspect many of us are just
curious/interested in who this person was, what they did, and where they
are now.
>The movie was made by a different
>company than the one that made the series.
I think Fran Kuzui (who directed the movie, if I recall) still serves as
some sort of nominal producer on the show (at least her name was in the
credits last season). Don't know if she still is as I haven't been paying
much attention to the end credits this season so far.
:-)
JJ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:38:35 -0700
From: Aliesha Wallach <aliesha@amazon.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Spike reminds me of someone....
TknoPagan@aol.com wrote:
> I sorta got the feeling that he looked like Kiefer Sutherland from Lost
> Boys...Minus the long hair of course.....Who just happens to be a son of a
> former watcher..Donald Sutherland(Merrick)...
Are they at all related to Kristine Sutherland, aka Joyce Summers?
-Aliesha
GASP! - Keeper of the Hot Plate
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:35:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Letondu@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
In a message dated 97-09-25 12:27:21 EDT, you write:
> think Fran Kuzui (who directed the movie, if I recall) still serves as
> some sort of nominal producer on the show (at least her name was in the
> credits last season). Don't know if she still is as I haven't been paying
> much attention to the end credits this season so far.
>
>
Yes, she is still listed and Sandollar, her and her husband's(?) production
company which produced the movie are listed in the credits for the tv
s3eries.
Napoleon
letondu@aol.com
Defenders of the Night
http://members.aol.com/letondu/defender.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:55:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Inspyral@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Spike reminds me of someone....
Does Spike remind anyone else of Neil from MTV's The Real World?
This would be the London one, and Neil was the Brit philosopher/musician
guy...
L8r
Chris
>=)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:57:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: cn2759@abaco.coastalnet.com (JW)
Subject: BUFFY: History of Movie to series
> Maybe it's just because I only joined this list at the start of this
> season but was it ever decided that Buffy in Sunnydale is the same Buffy
> as in the movie and that she's picking up where she left off there.
I think your suppose to understand that some of the events in the movie
happened to this Buffy. Joss I don't think has ever exactly stated what you
can take from the movie. In WttHm we know Buffy is transfering from school
in LA, because she was blamed for a fire in the gym, which happened in the
movie. Also that Buffy had already been filled in and trained some in her
slaying duties. At the end of WttHm when everyone goes blank on the
happenings at the Bronze, and Buffy says she seen it before. That would seem
to refer to the big battle she had in front of lots of witnesses at the end
of the movie,yet she was blamed for the fire in the gym.
I think Joss wanted to try and keep some of the history of the character so
he wouldn't have to redo the movie for the pilot. Of course some big
changes were made from the movie to the series. Buffy went from a Senior to
a Soph, Vampires got demon faces, and lost the ability to fly. Buffy's
parents got divorced, her mother went from society wife, to concerned mom.
And, of course vamps turn to dust when you staked them.
JW
cn2759@coastalnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:58:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: cn2759@abaco.coastalnet.com (JW)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Is Angel in next wk's ep?
> I'd hate to see
>Angel's part cut back, although I don't recall seeing him in the promo >for
next week. Grrr argh.
I think you can count on Angel showing up, since David is now a full
cast member. Plus WB wants to play up the Buffy and Angel romance.
Besides, being a full cast member I think means he would still get paid
if he is written in the show or not. So you count on them using
him.
JW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:00:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Slayer5454@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
In a message dated 97-09-25 11:55:44 EDT, Lawless wrote:
<< (recall that Buffy: The Movie was actually a parody of the way things are
in the
series, which was Joss' original idea). >>
And proves my point. It happened in Buffy's past, but it did not happene the
way the movie portrayed it.
Facts from the movie:
Buffy was a slayer in LA.
Buffy had a Watcher before Giles.
Buffy did some damage to her old school.
Facts from the series:
Buffy was a slayer in LA.
Buffy had a Watcher before Giles.
Buffy did some damage to her old school.
Where is the conflict?
bjorkman@aecom.yu.edu (James Bjorkman)
<<Everyone should just watch and enjoy and stop trying to be the canon
police. These questions about this Buffy's former watcher are surely going
to be answered in due course, and if they aren't, who cares? That just means
that watcher - who could also be named Merrick but will most certainly then
be a DIFFERENT Merrick - has no current importance. >>
Hurray, much as I like to debate this, it really makes no difference.
Merrick's existence as Merrick has no bearing on the series, so lets get
over it.
Slayer5454@aol.com (Melissa S. Heckard)
"Love makes you do the wacky." Willow, from Some Assembly Required
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Inspyral@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
In a message dated 97-09-25 10:34:39 EDT, dcompora@monroe.lib.mi.us writes:
<< Also, in the BITKA scene, Giles is holding a can of pop that appears to be
Coke, but you can't read the label. He takes a sip, makes an awful face
and looks at the can like he just drank something awful. I wonder if this
was a slam against the pop company for not paying for advertising. >>
I could be wrong(say it ain't so..), but I believe Giles is drinking a can of
Lipton's Raspberry Iced Tea, not Coke. Maybe he's making that awful taste
cos (pardon me for stereotyping Brits, here) the *tea* he's drinking isn't up
to par w/ what he may be accustomed to(by that, I mean hot tea, Earl
Grey(sp?) and wut not).
L8r
Chris
>=)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:40:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: TknoPagan@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
I also noticed the scene with the upside down cross. It was a totally
different cross than the one that Angel gave her.
Second, when the victims(Giles, Jenny, Willow, and Xander) pair off in When
She Was Bad....If you look very very closely you can see Cordelia's head
laying on the floor. Look close it is there.
Jason Martinez
TknoPagan@aol.com
Slayer974@aol.com
Keeper of Buffy's Little Wooden Stake
Keeper of Joyce's Sports Utility Vehicle
Keeper of Willow's Computer
"Embrace the Pain, Spank Your Inner Moppet...Whatever...."..Cordelia, WSwB
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:43:35 -0700
From: Lawless <lawless@netside.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: History of Movie to series
JW wrote:
> happened to this Buffy. Joss I don't think has ever exactly stated what you
> can take from the movie. In WttHm we know Buffy is transfering from school
> in LA, because she was blamed for a fire in the gym, which happened in the
> movie. Also that Buffy had already been filled in and trained some in her
I'm going to try not to post too much more on this thread since I've
posted a lot today already, but I just wanted to clear up that there was
no fire in the gym in the movie.
Lawless
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:49:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: JACYNTHE <Cboland@cris.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
I don't know about the upside down cross bit...but I"m pretty sure in SAR
what she was wearing was a Celtic cross. I don't have this ep on tape,
but I could've sworn I saw the tell-tale circle surrounding the point
where the cross' arms meet.
Or I could've been hallucinating. This has been known to happen. :)
~Jacynthe
Keeper of the song in Angel's heart
Cboland@concentric.net "Gra, Dilseacht agus Cairdeas"
http://www.cris.com/~Cboland/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:26:13 -0500
From: Steve Lang <otter11@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: BUFFY: SMG mentioned on Conan O'Brien
Last night on Conan O'Brien, Buffy and Sarah Michelle Gellar were
mentioned. Conan was interviewing Melissa Joan Hart, and during the
interview it was mentioned that the last time Melissa was on the show, she
was able to meet Smashing Pumpkins. Conan said that since he allowed her
to meet them, Melissa should introduce Conan to a celebrity. When Melissa
asked him who he wanted to meet, Conan immediately replied:
"The girl from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Sarah Michelle Gellar is her
name".
That was about it, but I'm guessing with this comment that if Sarah hits
the east coast for interviews prior to the release of either of her movies,
she'll probably show up on Late Night with Conan O'Brien.
- -steve
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:51:21 -0700
From: Lawless <lawless@netside.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Slayer5454@aol.com wrote:
> Buffy was a slayer in LA.
> Buffy had a Watcher before Giles.
> Buffy did some damage to her old school.
> Where is the conflict?
Where's the conflict? How about:
Facts From the Movie:
Buffy didn't burn down the gym
Buffy had a horrible valley girl accent
Buffy's parents are married
Buffy was a Senior
Merrick is DEAD
Facts from the Series:
Buffy did burn down the gym
Buffy's talks like a normal person (sorta)
Buffy's parents are separated
Buffy is a sophomore
Buffy had a watcher before Giles
Those are just a few of the obvious conflicts even though I could think
of twenty more. How anyone can watch it and not see conflict is beyond
me.
I'm done for now.
Lawless
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sonja Marie <whtrose@eskimo.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Website Update - New Urls
Hi all,
I have added 13 more URLS to my Buffy Links Page at:
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/7728/btvsurls.html
There are now 300 pages listed!
I've removed 2 dead links.
And if you are so inclined, PLEASE sign my guestbook!
If you have a page for the show or cast members and IT IS NOT LISTED
already, please send me the URLS and I will add them next update.
I decide if a page gets added or not, based on content and if I can
actually view the page or not. Me know like Java or GPF's!
Sonja Marie - The White Rose @--'->-- http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/sonja.html
Co-Pres. of the Jeff Fahey IFC - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/fahey.html
Paul Wylie Fan Pages - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/pwylie/pwylie.html
Owner of the Jeff Fahey, Paul Wylie, Anthony S. Head, & Buffy Beta Lists
Pres. of Giles Appreciation Society Panters -GASP!- Keeper of Giles Coats&Ties
"Hi, Sonja, it's uh, Tony Head.." Anthony Stewart Head (Giles-BTVS) To Me!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:39:30 -0700
From: Aliesha Wallach <aliesha@amazon.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: SPOILER FOR SAR-Daryl's grave
Ted Nelson wrote:
Note: "He's" from LA(-LA)
> and probably doin' the Sierra Nevada Range, maybe even Whitney, and the
> late spring storms in that area have claimed too many lives. I don't
> think an "All-(though small) City" running back would take such a risk.
Maybe that's how he died. He was under the impression that he was just
*so* tough, *so* cool, *so* All-City star running back, that nothing
could ever happen to him. Thus he went rock-climbing in late spring,
and tragically died in the process.
Man, we can make excuses for anything, can't we? I have it bad.
Meaning I have it, BAD. Isn't this one of the many signs?
-Aliesha
GASP! - Keeper of the Hot Plate
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:44:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Buffy716@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: tapes
Is anyone willing to send tapes or knows of anyone who would, could you
please email me at Buffy716@aol.com
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:35:53 -0400
From: sah <romana@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Movie v. Series (Merrick, etc.)
At 12:08 PM 9/25/97 -0400, James Bjorkman wrote:
>Disputes over what is canon and what isn't are just so pointless and
>sterile. Everyone should just watch and enjoy and stop trying to be
>the canon police. These questions about this Buffy's former watcher are
>surely going to be answered in due course, and if they aren't, who cares?
In your opinion they're pointless. I happen to think it's not only
interesting, but an important issue since canon basically defines the
context in which the story is told.
Too many times people say things like "Well, this is what the executive
producer says about this so it's a fact and you're just plain wrong." And
the truth is, writers, producers, authors, etc. can give insight, but if
what they intended isn't obvious in the main text, they failed in their
intent and the matter is still open to interpretation.
What does and doesn't constitute canon is also extremely important when you
start dealing with fanfic. Canon also shapes our expectations of how the
characters will behave, in addition to the physical laws of the particular
universe. It's a sticky issue, but not irrelevant, and the fact that it
crops up everywhere in fandom gives credence to the fact that it's an
important part of discussion about a favorite show.
To relate this back to Buffy, now, I think a lot of the undead questions
people are generating are basically a discussion of series canon. Who was
her watcher before Giles, how are vampires made, etc., etc. Like all
fandoms before us, we're struggling to define the parameters of the series,
to find a common basis for discussion of the more ambiguous plot points and
character actions. Not everyone has access to comments made by actors,
writers or producers. The *only* thing we have (or potentially can have)
in common are the episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" television series.
In other words, discussion Buffy canon is a large part of exactly what this
list is all about.
- --sah
- --
sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
NatPack * Jungle Patrol * BotCoS * FoFoD * Bishop * Clumsy Dwarf
Nat's B&B: http://members.aol.com/romana/natpage_stuff/
Email me for info about the Buffy the Vampire Slayer list
"Then he had to go and die. Ah well. Now I have to go and study. Ew."
- --Bast
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:35:51 -0400
From: sah <romana@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
At 11:02 AM 9/25/97 -0400, Smurf6942@aol.com wrote:
>But Merrick died in the movie. Are you suggesting that Merrick could advise
>Buffy from the Great Beyond? Please, say it isn't so. That would just be
>TOO cliche. Would he be Obi-Wan-Merrick? I don't see Joss doing that kind
>of thing.
No, just that he was a great character. The best character, IMO, from the
movie and Buffy's reaction to his death was one of the few good scenes.
I admit, I just happen to like Merrick. I also happen to like the idea
that he might have some relation to Giles (remember, Giles did say this was
something handed down in his family). Or maybe just a relation to where
Giles is from and the kind of life he's lead.
The movie and the TV series don't completely match up in a lot of ways. It
might have been wiser for Joss to redo the movie rather than sort of half
referring to the original movie, but changing things significantly to
muddle them.
The purist in me agrees with Lawless that we should disregard the movie
characters and consider the events references in the TV series as part of
series canon which has nothing whatsoever to do with movie canon. In fact,
as I consider it further, that's really how it *should* be.
- --sah
- --
sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
NatPack * Jungle Patrol * BotCoS * FoFoD * Bishop * Clumsy Dwarf
Nat's B&B: http://members.aol.com/romana/natpage_stuff/
Email me for info about the Buffy the Vampire Slayer list
"Then he had to go and die. Ah well. Now I have to go and study. Ew."
- --Bast
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:41:58 -0400
From: sah <romana@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
At 11:46 AM 9/25/97 -0700, Lawless wrote:
>I'm not really sure if I understand what canon is, but I thought that
>you guys were trying to say that canon is when something has to be
>mentioned or relate to the series in order to be accepted.
You're absolutely right. I was letting my admiration for the Merrick
character blind me.
As I've stated elsewhere, I tend to be a canon purist, and you're
right--series canon has nothing to do with movie canon.
- --sah
- --
sah * romana@mindspring.com * romana@aol.com
NatPack * Jungle Patrol * BotCoS * FoFoD * Bishop * Clumsy Dwarf
Nat's B&B: http://members.aol.com/romana/natpage_stuff/
Email me for info about the Buffy the Vampire Slayer list
"Then he had to go and die. Ah well. Now I have to go and study. Ew."
- --Bast
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:02:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wolfkazzy@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy's Cross & Other Flaws
In a message dated 97-09-25 11:59:00 EDT, you write:
> Someone suggested it was Brisk (iced tea)--I
> didn't think so, at first, because I thought their cans were blue, but
> right under his fingers you can see what might be the letters BR running
> up the side of the can. If it is iced tea
Hehe, this is funny. I thought it was coke all along but until this post I
didn't know Brisk was in it. I drink Brisk cans myself and they have a
strawberry or rasberry flavor (forgot which) and the cans are a dark
marve-pink, nearly a red color...so it might be Brisk.
Wolfkazzy
Keeper of Angel's Soul
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:07:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Amanda <aca203@is8.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Another SAR question
Lawless listsa whole bunchof conflicts from the show and the movie and
asks how anyonecan watch it without noticingthem. Easy- I thoughthe movie
was great but I belive the series far surpasses it. I reconcile the
differences bywatching the sereis as if it is a totally different
story-which, in essence it is, as Joss has said (accordingto him Merrick
and Pike never existed in the sereis world). All thatis connected
betweenthe series and the movie is that there is a slayer for
each generation and inthis onethe girls name is Buffy. For me, the two are
based on the same concept but develop in different ways. In essence, they
are two totally different stories with only the above stated
characteristics (Name and slayer position).
- -PoizonIvy: Vampire Kisser
Keeper of Xander's Wardrobe
member of NOSFERATU
" I love you still. That's the torment of it. But who will care for me
my love, my dark angel, when you are gone."- Claudia from Interview
With The Vampire.
------------------------------
End of buffy Digest V1 #325
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