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From: buffy-owner@xmission.com (buffy Digest)
To: buffy-digest@xmission.com
Subject: buffy Digest V1 #72
Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com
Sender: buffy-owner@xmission.com
Errors-To: buffy-owner@xmission.com
Precedence:
buffy Digest Tuesday, May 13 1997 Volume 01 : Number 072
In this issue:
BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
Re: BUFFY: Nightmares
Re: BUFFY: Brahms Stoker'
Re: BUFFY: Brahms Stoker'
Re: BUFFY: Xander's Nightmare
RE: BUFFY: Amanda
BUFFY: "Nightmares" comments (Long) (Pt. 1)
BUFFY: "Nightmares" comments (Long) (Pt. 2)
Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
Savannah Re: BUFFY: Buffy renewal
Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
Re: BUFFY: Buffy renewal
BUFFY: Nightmares AVI files and more
BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
Re: BUFFY: Nightmares(spoilers)
RE: BUFFY: Buffy renewal
Re: Savannah Re: BUFFY: Buffy renewal
Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
Re: BUFFY: Xander's Nightmare
Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
RE: BUFFY: Amanda
BUFFY: Buffy:Keeping Things
Re: BUFFY: Nightmares and introductions
Re: BUFFY: The coach battering the boy
Re: BUFFY: Nightmares(spoilers)
Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
BUFFY: The Master in "Nightmares"
Re: BUFFY: Nightmares and introduction
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy
or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:57:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sonja Marie <whtrose@eskimo.com>
Subject: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
Okay I have to say something about this! Giles and Buffy together
romanticly?! I THINK NOT! For one thing, the main thing! Buffy is ONLY
16 and Giles is at least in his late 30s early 40s. We aren't in the
middle ages where that sort of thing was normal :D I'd personally be
grossed out if that ever happened!
On Tue, 13 May 1997 LadyKat83@aol.com wrote:
> I've always thought that Giles' and Buffy's relationship is closer than
> the network
> wants us to see yet. My best friend's even rooting for them to become
> romantically
> involved.
> Lady Kat
Sonja Marie - The White Rose @--'->-- http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/sonja.html
Co-Pres. of the Jeff Fahey IFC - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/fahey.html
Paul Wylie Fan Pages - http://www.eskimo.com/~whtrose/pwylie/pwylie.html
Owner of the Jeff Fahey Mailing List & The Paul Wylie Mailing List
Pres. of Giles Appreciation Society Panters -GASP!- Keeper of Giles' Coats&Ties
ASH Appreciation Society Member - Watch Buffy: the Vampire Slayer - Series!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:57:31 -0500
From: suicides@webspun.com (deletew)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Nightmares
Augie De Blieck Jr. wrote:
>
> It was moodier than usual, and
> methinks we need an all-out action/adventure episode soon just to balance the
> horror quotient out.
>
actually, i was hoping for more like this one... i like the way the
episode felt. i wish joss wrote all the episodes...
> SMG got to play a wider array of emotions than usual. But she didn't wear any
> incredible short dresses this week! What's the deal? (Well, sure, her chest
> seemed to be jutting out more than usual, and there was that gratuitous
> cleavage shot when she bent over for her pencil, but. . . I'm sorry. Please
> excuse me.)
>
buffys perpetually perky chest is really starting to get on my nerves.
AT EASE, FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!!!!!!
i pray that next season, buffy looses the wonderbras...
djdedd had giles' cross ready, in the event that buffy should get
TOO hungry....
end of line.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 06:41:54 GMT
From: chris.aahz@bruins.sbay.org (Chris Aahz)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Brahms Stoker'
-=> Annat@umich.edu was mumblin' 'bout BUFFY: Brahms Stoker's Dr <=-
An> But, now more to the topic of my post. Useless trivia that comes up
An> when you work at a news/talk station. It's the 100th anniversary of
An> Braham Stoker's "Dracula" this year. Auspicious time for vampire
An> lore.
An> -Anna (the other Anna...since I think there are two of us.)
Useless? Never! In fact, not only is this year the 100th Anniversary,
but it was this very month that Dracula first "hit the shelves". For those
die hard vampire hunters...er...fans, such as myself this is a stellar year!
My vacation this year is to attend Dracula '97: a conference dedicated to all
things vampiric being held in L.A. in August. For more info on Dracula '97
do a web search for "Dracula 97".
Peace,
Aahz
Keeper of Buffy's Tombstone
... "We have no crime after dark!" 'SWAT Team?' "No, Vampires."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 07:20:32 GMT
From: chris.aahz@bruins.sbay.org (Chris Aahz)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Brahms Stoker'
-=> Annat@umich.edu was mumblin' 'bout BUFFY: Brahms Stoker's Dr <=-
An> But, now more to the topic of my post. Useless trivia that comes up
An> when you work at a news/talk station. It's the 100th anniversary of
An> Braham Stoker's "Dracula" this year. Auspicious time for vampire
An> lore.
An> -Anna (the other Anna...since I think there are two of us.)
Useless? Never! In fact, not only is this year the 100th Anniversary,
but it was this very month that Dracula first "hit the shelves". For those
die hard vampire hunters...er...fans, such as myself this is a stellar year!
My vacation this year is to attend Dracula '97: a conference dedicated to all
things vampiric being held in L.A. in August. For more info on Dracula '97
do a web search for "Dracula 97".
Peace,
Aahz
Keeper of Buffy's Tombstone
... "We have no crime after dark!" 'SWAT Team?' "No, Vampires."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:04:06 -0500
From: suicides@webspun.com (deletew)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's Nightmare
>> all I can say is ... that boy has _nothing_to
>> be ashamed of! :-)
>
> i totally agree! wow, now i can believe he 25 (or whatever). he can really
> pull of that skinny teenage guy thing well though. with his clothes, you
> would have never thought he was THAT buff! too bad he isn't a briefs guy.
> ;)
>
told ya! hes definitely a boxers guy..
angel is the briefs guy.
giles wears silk boxers...
GASP!
djdedd holds giles' cross
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 97 18:25:31 -0700
From: 296_jenalve@nhusd.k12.ca.us
Subject: RE: BUFFY: Amanda
> Not if Amanda saw Xander in his boxers then she might forget about age.
> sharon
I am sorry if this is a dumb question, but somehow I must of missed this, so
could someone tell me who Amanda is?
girlJen
(Soon to be keeper of something---i hope.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:34:34 -0700
From: jen@rio.com
Subject: BUFFY: "Nightmares" comments (Long) (Pt. 1)
I had to chop this into two parts to make the mailer take it...
==================
I bundled a bunch of replies on "Nightmares" comments together to keep from
sending lots of one-line messages to the list. If I accidentally
misattributed something, I apologize in advance. Also, this got a lot longer
than I expected, so sorry for that too. (I abase myself. No, you may not watch.)
Lily says:
>about that nazi thing. was i the only one that noticed that there was a
>swastika on the wall when xander found his first candybar? i wouldn't have
>noticed except i was wondering if they were actually going to have an army
>of nazi march across xander's face. but what WAS the point of it?
Perhaps Xander is Jewish. I still haven't been able to get a good look at
that medal he wears around his neck -- it might bear an engraved Star of
David. (Yes, I know one doesn't have to be Jewish to have nightmares about
Nazis. I'm just suggesting a possibility. Though "Rosenberg" is a lot more
likely last name than "Harris" for a person of Jewish heritage.)
DangerMom says:
>Ooohh, I was right about *one* of Giles' fear...failing to protect Buffy.
I thought this was a trifle odd, actually. Given that in a Watcher-Slayer
pair, the Watcher is the "brains" and the Slayer is the "brawn" (more or
less) why would Giles feel he had to "protect" Buffy? A Watcher's job should
be to train, inform, and assist, not protect. If anyone does the protecting,
it's Buffy.
That sounded like it was Giles-the-father-figure talking, and not
Giles-the-Watcher. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Ann (iocaste@aol.com) says:
>The filmic
>Buffy was extremely self-absorbed, vain, and, as Merrick put it, "vacuous,"
>but once again, like Hillary's Swank's character, she demonstrated an
>awareness of her self and a kind of pride in her choice to take pleasure in
>... what she took pleasure in. I admired that, which is why I don't find
>SMG's Buffy as compelling.
I'd classify this as another case where a dramatic choice made for the movie
simply wouldn't work if translated to the TV Series. I could stand two hours
of "self-absorbed airhead saves the world" and be amused by it, but it would
get old very quickly if I had to watch it week after week. It was just that
fear (of having to watch airhead-saves-the-world every week) that kept me
from watching Buffy for seven weeks until the show was urged on me by a
friend that also provided a tap. (Yeah, I know I should watch the show
before judging it, but I just don't have *time* to watch every new show that
comes on to find out if it's what I expected or not.)
>There were
>such wonderful _hints_ of deeper feelings, like Giles's line to Buffy "You
>never told me you had nightmares about becoming a vampire," that were never
>fully explored. This episode suggested a closer friendship between Giles and
>Buffy than we have yet seen, but it there was no follow-through.
The advantage of being a TV series is that, if things go well, there will be
plenty of time to explore and deepen these issues as the show progresses. If
the writers do too much development too fast, not only will it seem forced
and implausible, it will leave less to do in later years of the show. The
dynamic between Buffy and Giles is an interesting and complex one, and I
don't want to see its depths plumbed too quickly or too soon (or too
glibly). The writers are taking their time with the characters, and I really
appreciate that; it gives me as a viewer time to savor the many facets of
the various relationships as they are slowly revealed.
>Another example: Giles had a nightmare about not being able to read. This
>could have been a truly horrifying scene -- at the very least, we could have
>seen more of a reaction out of him. Instead, after a moment of frustration,
>he seems to have forgotten all about it.
I saw this differently. Giles seemed so terrified by his loss of the ability
to read that he had a difficult time even telling anyone what had happened
to him. In real life, if something like this happened it would likely mean a
stroke or other serious brain dysfunction. I thought Giles looked
*amazingly* relieved when the problem turned out to be merely another
supernatural event associated with the Hellmouth! ("This at least I know how
to deal with!")
>So, basically, I feel Nightmares was an episode of lost potential.
I'd have liked a better flow and perhaps a few more moments of genuine
terror from Willow and Xander (their nightmares were just a little too
superficial for my taste compared to what Buffy, Giles, and the girl in the
basement went through.) But it was a difficult concept and the writers did a
pretty good job of realizing it. I'd give it a solid B.
Leslie Says:
>Xander's fear of clowns, while it seems cliche, really isn't. There are
>people who are very frightened by clowns.
In many non-Western societies, clowns of one variety or another are
associated with death. (I could post something from my Encyclopedia of
Folklore about it, but it might be considered off-topic.)
>Xander, curiously, when confronted with this fear as an
>adult, is at first frightened, but then bored. Basically, he's wasting time,
>and he realizes it. When he confronts his fear, it disappears. (Can we
>say the moral of the story is...)
Hmmm, I dunno about that. That's the typical TV-horror cliche solution, but
I'm not convinced it applied here. Since the fears here were being fueled by
Billy and the Hellmouth, simply "facing" them probably wouldn't have been
sufficient. That is, if Xander "faced" his fear by turning around and
telling the clown "I'm not afraid of you!" WITHOUT also slugging him, the
clown would simply have stabbed Xander. (He might not have stayed "dead"
when Billy woke up, but he'd remember being stabbed to death, I assume --
not pleasant.)
In other words -- in our world, facing your fears is the best strategy. In
Buffy's world, running and hiding from your fears when they're running
around with a big knife is probably your best strategy ;)
>I actually feel Willow is still hiding. Unlike
>Xander, she hasn't confronted her fear. It's as if she hasn't found her
>voice yet. She's continually saying "no speaking up" and that she can't
>speak in front of people. She needs to trust her intelligence and talents,
>and realize that she can share them.
However, what Willow would "need" if she were a real person and what we, as
viewers, need Willow's character to be in the show are different things.
Well-balanced people are *boring* (at least as far as television goes.) So,
while it's fun to see that Willow can be gutsy when her back's against the
wall ("Let's just be friends!" *CLANG!*) I really *don't* want to see her
becoming self-confident and outgoing in regular life.
>Most everyone's commented on Buffy and Giles nightmares. Their
>nightmares are very much intertwined. Neither of them wants to fail
>themselves or each other. Buffy and Giles have such a strong sense of
>duty and responsibility.
Giles, yes. Buffy? Not sure I agree. Sure, she sees that she *needs* to be
responsible to keep herself and her friends (and others) safe, but I don't
think it goes very deep, or at least not yet.
Take a look at "Never Kill a Boy..." -- if you think about it, in that
episode Buffy failed completely. Had she actually had a strong sense of duty
and responsibility she wouldn't even have *considered* going on a date on
the night major supernatural nastiness was supposed to come down.
Nope, I think Buffy's a typical 16 year old. She knows how to be responsible
and dutiful, but she doesn't *want* to be. And she definitely has some
resentment that her "Slayerness" forces her to be responsible and dutiful
when the only responsibilities most other kids her age have is to do their
homework and show up for team practice, and many of them don't do even that.
Buffy doesn't think its fair, and she's right. (When you're sixteen, "Life's
not fair" is not much philosophical comfort.)
>This episode dealt with the entire theme of nightmares and dreaming in a
>powerful way. Just as personal fears feed on each other, the episode
>advanced that given the right conditions, personal fears can become
>societal fears. When fear goes unchecked, it escalates. Hence, we get
>the reference to Nazis, and on a slightly less terrifying note--the killer
>bees (or whatever those were.)
Hmm. I don't see that "Nightmares" went that far. There weren't any "witch
hunt" hysteria aspects to the episode that I could see. Now, if weird stuff
had started happening and the whole town had turned on Buffy and/or Giles
and decided they were responsible and tried to hang them, then I could see
your point, but nothing remotely close to that happened. I'm not debating
your central point about the effect of irrational fear on society, I just
don't think that was part of this particular story.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Hawthorne
jen@rio.com
jennifer.hawthorne@sierra.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
"You were about to accuse the Centauri Ambassador of being in league
with the devil. Which might not be far from the truth." -
Garibaldi to Amis, "Babylon 5: The Long Dark"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:35:30 -0700
From: jen@rio.com
Subject: BUFFY: "Nightmares" comments (Long) (Pt. 2)
Augie "Doggy" De Blieck Jr. says:
>> And we know he reads five languages now, and can have
>> lots of fun speculating on which ones. English, Latin, Greek... what else
>> would be required to be an Oxford librarian?
>
>French? ::duck grin run:: Maybe Russian. After all, you've seen one Romance
>language, you've seen them all. Better to go for something off that track.
Yeah, the boring but likely choices would be French and Spanish or Italian.
Russian's a decent choice -- not boring, but not out of the question either.
(I'm reminded of Quantum Leap, where we learn that one of the eight
languages the main character can read is -- tada! -- Ancient Egyptian
Hieroglyphics! Wha?!)
He might want to pick up on one of the pictographic languages, too, like
Japanese, just in case he needs to deal with Asian demons. (There are a
*lot* of demons in Asian folklore.)
>> The nightmare with Buffy and her dad was heart-cutting.
No, that was the demon in "Puppet Show" -- oh, you meant *emotionally*! (eg)
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Well, this was an... interesting episode! Not necessarily because the episode
>itself was so wonderful, but it just gives you so much information that you
>can extrapolate from. What is your worst fear... and what does that tell us
>about you? We already knew about Xander's fear of clowns, but now we know
>what triggered it.
Do you think the clown bit was really Xander's worst fear, or was it just
something that got pulled randomly from his subconscious, like the "naked in
class" stuff? It didn't look to me like people's "worst" fears were coming
out generally, just some fears. It was generally fears that they dream about
a lot. (In my case, the fear dreams I have -- usually the
endlessly-chased-can't-get-away type ones) are not related to my real-life
worst fears except perhaps in a symbolic way. The nightmares that were
coming to life seemed to be pretty literally the nightmares themselves, not
the underlying fears. I doubt Cordelia's worst fear is *literally* that she
might be mistaken for a member of the chess club! That's just symbolic of
her real fear.
The exceptions to this would be Buffy and Giles, but this might be a
reflection of the fact that they're both tied strongly into magic and the
supernatural to begin with, unlike Xander, Willow and the others. Yet even
Buffy and Giles had waking nightmares about fears that probably weren't on
their "worst" list -- getting lost in the stacks, and not being prepared for
a history test. Not fun things, to be sure, but again more symbolic of their
real fears than *literally* representing those fears.
>Not to mention Giles - wow! This tells us *so* much about the relationship
>between Giles and Buffy. I think this shows us that their relationship is
>much closer than we might have thought.
I suspect it's a bit one-sided at this point. Giles is much more deeply
involved with Buffy and all she represents than Buffy is with him. This will
probably change as Buffy comes to rely on Giles more and more and starts
being less resentful of being forced into the Slayer role, but it's not
there yet.
> and obviously Buffy has talked about hers with Giles.
I doubt she has, actually. Do you think she'd tell Giles she was afraid she
was responsible for her parents breaking up? I suspect he was startled that
she was afraid of becoming a vampire because he doesn't think she takes the
whole Slayer business seriously, but if she's dreaming about becoming a
vampire then she obviously is more concerned about it than she likes to let on.
Also, remember from the pilot that Buffy's dreams aren't normal; they tend
to be prophetic. Giles probably expects Buffy to *tell* him when she has
nightmares about supernatural things, because they could come to pass. So
he's surprised (and probably not at all pleased) that she'd dream something
like that and not come to him for help interpreting it.
>When Giles realizes that everyone's nightmares are coming to life, his first
>thought is Buffy. "Considering what she dreams about... we have to find her!"
> He apparently _knows_ what she dreams about.
See my comment above. In the pilot, Giles says something like "It's not like
you've been having the nightmares, after all." He knows she's *supposed* to
have meaningful dreams about things supernatural, and she's supposed to come
to him for help understanding what they mean. Naturally, being Buffy, she
probably doesn't ;)
> "She was so gifted." If Buffy's dad isn't around a
>lot, I think Buffy has a wonderful surrogate parent in Giles.
That's true. Although if Giles truly thinks Buffy is gifted, he should tell
her something to that effect at some point. He's been a bit short on the
"Well Dones" to this point. Though he probably doesn't want her to get any
cockier than she already is...
Certainly "She was so gifted" is a change from "The Earth Is Doomed" in the
pilot!
Oof, that got longer than I expected. Hope my comments didn't seem too
argumentative -- I've been conditioned not to respond with one-line "I
agree!" comments. Assume that anything I didn't comment on I agree with ;)
- -- Maytree
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Hawthorne
jen@rio.com
jennifer.hawthorne@sierra.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
G'Kar: "... sometimes I even sing."
Garibaldi: 'I know, we got a petition.'
G'Kar: "For or against?"
Garibaldi: 'Based on the sound, they think we're
torturing you in here.'
G'Kar: "You know, a true artist is never appreciated
in his own time."
Garibaldi: 'Or his own cell block.'
- - "Babylon 5: Messages From Earth"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:48:22 -0400
From: Laertes@webtv.net
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
I completely agree. But i do want to state
the Giles does seem to be a surragate
father to Buffy. Her dad is not consistant
with his weekend visits (Buffy worrying
about him not showing up). The only
consistant father figure in her life is
Giles. I just wonder if Giles knows although
his reaction at the gravesite was more of
a parental response then an instructors.
Does anyone else so Giles as a surragate
father in Buffy's life and Buffy subconsiously
using Giles as a surragate father.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:50:01 -0400
From: Laertes@webtv.net
Subject: Savannah Re: BUFFY: Buffy renewal
=1BThis is off-topic but according to todays
Boston Globe Savannah has been cancelled.
Sorry for being off-topic.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:50:37 -0500
From: sharonruth@webtv.net (Sharon Jacobs)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
First of all is that how you spell it I thought would be something like
eeyeww.
Second obviously nothing like that is ever going to happen on the show.
I'm sure the WB has some kind of internal censor or something who would
freak out if it was suggested
Finally, this Buffy/ Giles romance idea is just
that. An idea some of the fans have came up with. It may seem a little
strange to you, but if
you've ever read any of the fanfic for the X files
or Highlander, you'd see that the fans can come up with a lot stranger
pairings.(Mulder/Skinner; can't deal with that)
sharon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:56:01 -0500
From: sharonruth@webtv.net (Sharon Jacobs)
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Buffy renewal
Sad news friend; Savannah is gone for good.
It's ratings were really bad and I don't think it had the intense
(rabid)following that Buffy has developed.
Still, I'm going to miss Peyton, her evil schemes always took my mind
off my own problems.
sharon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 01:54:44 GMT
From: flagg@wwa.com (Flagg)
Subject: BUFFY: Nightmares AVI files and more
I just updated my Buffy AVI site with 4 brand new AVI clips, 2 from
"Nightmares" and 2 more from the end scene of "Angel". Along with the
other 1 already there this makes the entire scene in AVI files....
I've also started using a newer, better compression codec so the files
are all about 1/2 the size of the earlier ones, (or the same size but
twice the length).
- --Flagg
http://shoga.wwa.com/~flagg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 97 19:00:15 -0700
From: 296_jenalve@nhusd.k12.ca.us
Subject: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
> On Tue, 13 May 1997 LadyKat83@aol.com wrote:
>
> I've always thought that Giles' and Buffy's relationship is closer than
> > the network wants us to see yet. My best friend's even rooting for them to
become romantically involved.
> > Lady Kat
> >
I'm not sure who but someone else responed:
Okay I have to say something about this! Giles and Buffy together
> romanticly?! I THINK NOT! For one thing, the main thing! Buffy is ONLY
> 16 and Giles is at least in his late 30s early 40s. We aren't in the
> middle ages where that sort of thing was normal :D I'd personally be
> grossed out if that ever happened!
Here's what I think:
I too think that the relationship between Giles and Buffy could become something
more. But not when people hold firm with the belief that age equals maturity,
and that if you are young, you shouldn't be with someone older, simply based on
the idea that perhaps you are too immature to handle a relationship on an adult
level. This is a gross misconception, but one that american culture tends to
cling to. I would love to see the day when a relationship between the two could
be accepted and respected, but I sadly don't see that day coming soon. Also, If
a possible relationship between Giles and Buffy is so 'ickie' why is a
relationship between her and the 216 years older Angel accepted 100%? (probably
because he's so gosh darn handsome...but that's beside the point! :O})
girlJen
(soon to be keeper of something---i hope.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:05:08 -0700
From: jen@rio.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Nightmares(spoilers)
At 08:24 AM 5/13/97 -0500, thus sprake David Daniel Anderson:
>>someone else's nightmare. If Xander looks like that in his undies, how
>>come he's so unpopular? I admit it's been a good many years since I've
>>been in high school but things couldn't have changed that much.
I don't get the impression that he's actively *unpopular* -- no one torments
him, busts up his locker, or anything like that that we've seen. Most of the
school appears to just write him off. "Oh, that's just Xander. Go away,
Xander, you're bugging us." Willow, on the other hand, we've seen being
actively picked on.
>Second, I think Willow is exquisite, she has a princess-like beauty. And
>Xander is quite a hunk. But looks aren't everything. Cordelia isn't much
>prettier than Willo, if at all, but Cordelia has poise and outward confidence.
>One more thing that ties in here: perhaps Willow and Xander were ugly
>ducklings. They have only recently turned into a princess and a prince,
>so only time and their low self-confidence stands between them and
>mega-popularity.
Actually, I suspect it's more like "They don't cast ugly people as leads in
TV shows." (Okay, except for the Drew Carey show ;) In one interview with
Chris Carter, he said he got a lot of flak over choosing both Gillian
Anderson and David Duchovny for "The X-Files" because the two of them aren't
conventionally beautiful, at least not face-wise. (That, in fact, is one of
the things that attracted me to the show in the first place --
semi-realistic looking leads.) Now they're both making People's Beautiful
People list. Which just shows to go ya that no one in Hollywood knows
nothin' about what people think is beautiful.
Alyson and Nicholas may be what Hollywood considers unattractive -- which
means they're knockouts anywhere in the Real World.
(Does *anyone* at Sunnydale High have bad acne, or braces? How come none of
them are overweight?)
- -- Maytree
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Hawthorne
jen@rio.com
jennifer.hawthorne@sierra.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
"Now I have been studying the reports from the front lines, you'll
note the plural form "lines"... is there anyone along our border
that we are not currently at war with? Only an idiot fights a war
on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of
idiots would fight a war on *twelve* fronts." - Londo to Refa,
"Babylon 5: Ceremonies of Light And Dark"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:02:03 -0700
From: "Okoniewski, Debbi" <debbi.okoniewski@unistudios.com>
Subject: RE: BUFFY: Buffy renewal
> Not that I don't adore Buffy - but if it's going into the Monday
> at 9 time
> slot, what's going to happen to Savannah? This season ended with Lane
> happily married, and Reese and Nick savoring their revenge while
> Peyton
> plotted some of her own.
> Any ideas on where Savannah will be?
>
Deader than the proverbial door nail, I think. As far as I know,
Savannah got cancelled and will not be returning. Maybe
Aaron Spelling will do a 2-hour movie wrap-up or something.
Scott Woodard, can you answer this question??
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:17:53 -0700
From: Morningstar@webtv.net (Christina)
Subject: Re: Savannah Re: BUFFY: Buffy renewal
thank goodness the show sucked!
I orginaly thought buffy would be just as bad, because look at the
other shows on the WB line up. not saying the other show the make arent
good. just the ones on the WB network ......
way off subject
Christina
http://members.tripod.com/~Zartara/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:19:17 -0700
From: jen@rio.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
At 08:50 PM 5/13/97 -0500, thus sprake Sharon Jacobs:
>Finally, this Buffy/ Giles romance idea is just
>that. An idea some of the fans have came up with. It may seem a little
>strange to you, but if
>you've ever read any of the fanfic for the X files
>or Highlander, you'd see that the fans can come up with a lot stranger
>pairings.(Mulder/Skinner; can't deal with that)
>sharon
Mulder/Skinner is *TAME* compared to some of the stuff the Trek fanfic
writers come up with. But most fanfic writers stay away from serious taboos
unless they're trying to write parodies. Incest almost never appears, nor
does beastiality, and May/December relationships like Buffy/Giles are rare.
Not unheard of, but not that common in my experience...not that I would
actually, er, READ any of that smut, oh, no, no, I've just been...ah...told
about it. Yeah, that's the ticket...
It would be a pretty serious stretch to write that relationship believably
anyway; Giles is far too proper and dedicated to his duty as a Watcher to
get romantically involved with Buffy. And Buffy thinks Giles is *ancient*.
Not to mention that it would be statutory rape in most jurisdictions...
- -- Maytree
(Who never reads smutty fanfic. Never! Never!...well, hardly ever...)
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Hawthorne
jen@rio.com
jennifer.hawthorne@sierra.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, who put a "stop payment" on my reality check?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 97 21:19:30 CDT
From: Diane Westerfield <wes5@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Xander's Nightmare
Spoilers?
I have to agree with others on this list, seeing Xander in his boxers
was a real treat. I had no idea he was so buff. I was never really
attracted to him before, but I have to say I wish he was a brief man,
too. ;^) ;^) ;^)
- --diane
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:22:51 -0700
From: jen@rio.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
At 07:00 PM 5/13/97 -0700, thus sprake 296_jenalve@nhusd.k12.ca.us:
> Also, If
>a possible relationship between Giles and Buffy is so 'ickie' why is a
>relationship between her and the 216 years older Angel accepted 100%?
Because sleeping with a vampire is more than perverted enough that the age
difference problem pales in comparison...;)
>(probably
>because he's so gosh darn handsome...but that's beside the point! :O})
Definitely beside the point. ASH is plenty handsome. And I love the idea of
pillow talk with a British accent ;)
- -- Maytree
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Hawthorne
jen@rio.com
jennifer.hawthorne@sierra.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Windows: Just another pane in the glass.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:25:44 -0500
From: sharonruth@webtv.net (Sharon Jacobs)
Subject: RE: BUFFY: Amanda
Amanda is an immortal from Highlander who is somewhere around a thousand
years old( a lady never tells her age.) Some of us have been speculating
on a Giles/amanda crossover romance thing.
I think she could show him a good time and take his mind off his
troubles, or she could show him a good time and give him even more
troubles.
sharon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:23:49 EDT
From: pugsley1@juno.com (Travis L Tidmore)
Subject: BUFFY: Buffy:Keeping Things
Is anyone the keeper of Buffy's Cheerleading uniform because if not I'd
like to be.
Also does anyone have a list of whats kept?
Thanks
Pugsley- Hopeful Keeper of Buffy's Cheerleading Uniform
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:31:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Grace M. Lee" <glee3@shrike.depaul.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Nightmares and introductions
> From: Terrie <dgstrike@sprynet.com>
>
> I almost burst out laughing during parts of this ep. Maybe because my nightmares
> are scary because they're so wierd. For instance, there was the one with a mummy
> and the muppet
Don't think I'd like to be caught in your nightmares. NOOOOOO!!! NOT THE
MUPPET BABIES!!!!
> - -Terrie
> Keeper of Angel's Fridge
Wow. This fandom really has all its areas staked out.
Wonder who has the Master's toothbrush? ;)
> From: LadyKat83@aol.com
> Santiago wrote:
> << you're not charging us for this, are you? >>
>
> Don't suggest it to her, Santiago! I haven't remembered my nightmares
> or dreams for a long time now myself. The last nightmare I vividly remember
> is from 3 years ago.
Grace drops the sign on her makeshift booth. "The Doctor is in." Only 10
cents for a session, 20 cents if you want the meaning of life in a fortune
cookie.
glee
- ------
Xander: I laugh in the face of danger... then I run away and hide.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:38:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Grace M. Lee" <glee3@shrike.depaul.edu>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: The coach battering the boy
Laertes, and I think someone else, wrote that some of the worst evil are
the things that are supposed to be "good" or innocent. I agree. It's
quite insidious and horrific what they portrayed in the episode. I think
it's a credit to the writers when they can make the nightmares of crazed
clowns and spiders seem campy and at the same time make child abuse and
emotional abuse -- that is Buffy's fear about her father -- be heartfelt
and serious.
lordie this is a great show. I wish the ratings were higher.
glee
- ------
Xander: I laugh in the face of danger... then I run away and hide.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:52:51 -0500
From: Robert Wukovich <wookie@mail.icss.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Nightmares(spoilers)
At 19:05 5/13/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Actually, I suspect it's more like "They don't cast ugly people as leads in
>TV shows." (Okay, except for the Drew Carey show ;) In one interview with
>Chris Carter, he said he got a lot of flak over choosing both Gillian
>Anderson and David Duchovny for "The X-Files" because the two of them aren't
>conventionally beautiful, at least not face-wise. (That, in fact, is one of
>the things that attracted me to the show in the first place --
>semi-realistic looking leads.) Now they're both making People's Beautiful
>People list. Which just shows to go ya that no one in Hollywood knows
>nothin' about what people think is beautiful.
When X-Files first came out, I happened to think that Gillian Anderson was
quite attractive....Does this mean that I have poor taste or something? I
guess that gives me something to ponder.
Visit my website. I could alwasys use constructive criticism.
If you have any ides please let me know.
http://www.icss.net/~wookie/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:57:54 -0500
From: Robert Wukovich <wookie@mail.icss.net>
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Giles w/ Buffy? EWW! (Re:"Nightmares" & daymares)
At 19:19 5/13/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Mulder/Skinner is *TAME* compared to some of the stuff the Trek fanfic
>writers come up with. But most fanfic writers stay away from serious taboos
>unless they're trying to write parodies. Incest almost never appears, nor
>does beastiality, and May/December relationships like Buffy/Giles are rare.
>Not unheard of, but not that common in my experience...not that I would
>actually, er, READ any of that smut, oh, no, no, I've just been...ah...told
>about it. Yeah, that's the ticket...
>
>It would be a pretty serious stretch to write that relationship believably
>anyway; Giles is far too proper and dedicated to his duty as a Watcher to
>get romantically involved with Buffy. And Buffy thinks Giles is *ancient*.
>
>Not to mention that it would be statutory rape in most jurisdictions...
In my opinion, I think Giles feels a great responsibility towards Buffy
considering all their fates rest in her ability to handle the Hellmouth.
Visit my website. I could alwasys use constructive criticism.
If you have any ides please let me know.
http://www.icss.net/~wookie/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 97 22:30:23 CDT
From: Diane Westerfield <wes5@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: BUFFY: The Master in "Nightmares"
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
G
U
A
R
D
Near the end of the Nightmares episode, when Buffy encountered the
Master vampire in the cemetery . . . I realize this was all some kind
of nightmare reality, but did the Master (the real one, still down in
his holy prison) have some kind of contact with Buffy through this
weirdness? Was the "you're prettier than the last one" comment an
artifact of her mind or an actual sentiment of his? They have never
met before "in real life" but Buffy's first nightmare was about him,
somehow she knows what he looks like . . .
And for the debate about who's too old to date Buffy . . .um . . . if
the Master develops some kind of interest our heroine, it would make
any Giles or Angel thing pale in comparison. The guy has to have
an age in the four digits. at least.
Just some (potentially icky) food for thought.
- --diane
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:30:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Onlyamouse@aol.com
Subject: Re: BUFFY: Nightmares and introduction
In a message dated 97-05-13 03:35:58 EDT, you write:
<< 2) I loved Xander for his sardonic, self-deprecating wit. Now I love
Xander for his body. >>
::posessively:: hey watch it, that's MY wit you're talking about there (well
i never did get it offically approved, anyone?)
I just like that boy more and more each epsiode.. and i'm usually not like
that.
>>Glad to see that Angel's back next week. YUM.
for some reason i had thought he was going to be in *this* epsiode. I was
terribly dissapointed. But very happy when i saw the previews for next
week...
- -onlyamouse , looking for Syd's Gerald...
(Unoffical, someone official me!) Keeper of Xander's wit/Angel's dietician!
..don't hate me because i'm an AOL user ;).. "Give yourself over to absolute
pleasure.."
Goth Code 3.1a---> "http://members.aol.com/onlyamouse/code.htm"
web site pending
------------------------------
End of buffy Digest V1 #72
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