ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/bagpipe/archive/v01.n132

Internet Message Format | 1999-10-10 | 45KB

From: [e-mail] (bagpipe-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: bagpipe-digest V1 #132
Reply-To: bagpipe-digest
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


bagpipe-digest        Monday, October 11 1999        Volume 01 : Number 132




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1999 19:38:24 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Sir just drop the chalupa)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Gibson Pipes Update (was "cost of bagpipes")

>No, Bill's harmless enough, but it just seems to be
>certain members of the KRON clan that
>have a problem with Gibson.

Thank you John! You just called me something no one ever has before "harmless".
I'm usually either a great guy, or the devil re-incarnate, but not usually not
described as you state.
BTW, when you and Lindsay are done playing "name tag" with the NG by switching
names and personnas, and using it as an excuse for REALLY bad posts, maybe
you'll explain why my mail is  being rejected?
As usual, when someones right, you'll ignore them?
PS. Who was Gibson apprenticed under?
.........
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1999 19:49:09 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Sir just drop the chalupa)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: On the beat?

>Jginmd <[e-mail]> wrote in
>>    My answer: People never say fuckYOU and assHOLE or di-CKHEAD. They say
>FUCK
>> you, ASS hole and DICKhead. At least that's what they say to me much of
>the
>> time. Why? I guess because a two syllable, FIRST syllable emphatic implies
>more
>> stress.
>> JGS
>

Hmmm... I'm starting to remember why I left this place for a few days....
It was kind of nice to have a few days without this WONDERFUL LANGUAGE in my
life.


>WHAT an ANALysis,  FUCKING brilliant!
>
>SO WHAT your saying, is just play the SAME fucking way,
>that you DRIVE your car on the GOD damm highway
>at RUSH hour.
>

But "driver rage" (which is all the rage right now)  is against the law now!

>The only exception is when you play a round reel style,
>and you scream at the other driver, "GET THE FUCK
>OUT OF MY WAY YOU JERK, I'M GOING TO BE
>LATE FOR MASSED BANDS AND MY PM IS
>GOING TO KILL ME!"

Buy a gun, and the PM becomes much smaller. Oh yeah... that parolee/buying a
gun law. Forgot about that LOL!

>Oops, anger management therapy kicking in again!>

It's not working John. Ask for your therapists for your money back.
Lindsay/John or John/Lindsay should do that too, you may get 3 times your money
that way.

>IT'S time for a wee pint.

Seems you've surpassed your limit already John...
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 21:10:35 +0100
From: "lsrapm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: On the beat?

Jginmd <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
>

>    My answer: People never say fuckYOU and assHOLE or di-CKHEAD. They say
FUCK
> you, ASS hole and DICKhead. At least that's what they say to me much of
the
> time. Why? I guess because a two syllable, FIRST syllable emphatic implies
more
> stress.
> JGS>

Jeez, Willie! I couldn't have put this better myself......

And I think that anyone who can say "a two syllable, first syllable emphatic
> or a two syllable, second syllable emphatic" 5 times without saying
something you'd regret deserves to win the argument hands down...

Chris Eyre





- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1999 20:14:19 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Sir just drop the chalupa)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Gibson Pipes Update (was "cost of bagpipes")

>> My opinion of Gibsons is based on the three sets I've seen. All looked
>like
>> scotch tape was the main ingredient. On one set the drone stocks or the
>drones
>> themselves, weren't even drilled straight. When you twisted them, the top
>of
>> the drones were spinning like the blades on a helicopter. Just (in my
>> experience)
>
>Your experience, and opinion are based on the how many
>years of playing Bill?  One year.
>
>Bill maybe once you have played for a quite a few
>more years, then you will be able to form your own
>opinion an

John,
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see a rocket held together with
scotch tape, and another held together with steel/aluminum rivets to decide
which one you want to fly in. When you come out of the airport to grab a taxi,
do you choose the one with bondo and duct tape holding it together, or the 1999
cab right next to it?
And I think I was perfectly clear when I said "I twisted them" to be sure it
wasn't hemp causing the problem.
John: Give the NG any excuse you want to, but the fact is you with your
bagpiping experience could make a "fart in a baggie" sound like a
stratavarious. So I purposely discounted your pipes sound from that statement.
But hey, they still looked like shiiite! <EG>
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1999 20:21:15 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Sir just drop the chalupa)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Gibson Pipes Update (was "cost of bagpipes")

>Bill, this isn't a flame,

Ringo,
I've healed quickly!
Let me explain what seems to be lost here. Your comments would never be
considered a flame! Well unless you called me an a******...LOL! and I don't
consider much here as a "flame", since most  are just in a bad mood, or had a
bad day. But the friendships developed here will hopefully last a lifetime.
The "exchange of ideas" seems a lost art here, until I hear others speak of how
bad other NG's are in regards to flames, and I think they're right.

Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1999 20:48:31 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Whod you pipe maker study under)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Gibson Pipes Update (was "cost of bagpipes")

> My opinion of Gibsons is based on the three sets I've seen.

Apparently your eyesight is failing! Read above...

>Your experience, and opinion are based on the how many
>years of playing Bill?  One year.

Its based on comon sense, and my EYESIGHT!!!!

>Bill maybe once you have played for a quite a few
>more years, then you will be able to form your own
>opinion and be able to judge a set of pipes based
>on your own requirements. Stop parroting others!

How long do I need to play (or look at an instrument) before I see a 57' Chevy,
compared to a 97' Chevy? Ones fuel injected and ready to go, the others a
cabureated old-timers fodder.  When you choose a path to follow, choose one
that leads you into (change) the future.
If you don't move ahead like others on this NG who are willing to try new
products, then you'll be left behind in the vacuum of time.

>The helicopter spin you talk about is very common
>on any set of pipes

REALLY? Name a few... My advice was and has always been to STRENUOUSLY avoid
this kind of bagpipe.
I've never seen it before (except on crappy pipes... Oh yeah, sorry those
couldn't be ------.





>If you had any experience with pipes, you would have
>known this, or maybe your sources conveniently
>forgot to tell you that fact.
>

Well lets poll the NG and regardless of their experience we can settle this
here and now. Agreed? If so reply and let the NG decide

>Gibson has more happy customers out there than
>dissatisfied ones,

I think that applies to anyone in business, otherwise they wouldn't HAVE a
business.
Seems that self doubt is taking over your reasoning power John.


>and like ANY business he
>does have his troubles. This doesn't mean it has
>to be puked up by the competition at every
>chance they get.

Can you name one that doesn't have these complaints? Oh dam! I can...


>If  KRON is so good, then let them stand on
>the Merits of their own product. If their product
>is worth anything, then it will be recognized by
>the piping community as a good product.
>

It will! As Ringo has said "Someday Kron will be recognized for what it truly
is, A GREAT SET OF BAGPIPES".
I'm pretty much finito now John, are you?
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1999 20:50:09 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Whod you pipe maker study under)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Gibson Pipes Update (was "cost of bagpipes")

>I've got my Gibsons, I'm happy with the excellent
>sound and drone lock, >

But you could make a "fart in church" sound good, so whats your point?


Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.


- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:04:39 -0700
From: Andrew & Kristen Lenz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: First Competion

Steve,

Well, that'd probably be mine:
http://alumni.cse.ucsc.edu/~alenz/bagpipe_compete_tip.html

I'd recommend bookmarking it and not copying it as I need to upload an
updated version---probably this week. (New version will have a "last
updated" line at the bottom which it doesn't now.)

Best,
Andrew
- --
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
[e-mail]
Santa Cruz, California U.S.A.

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:09:35 -0700
From: Andrew & Kristen Lenz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: newbie

Denis,

1) Find an instructor if possible (best) or get tapes (next best).

2) Play a Practice Chanter for at least 6 months to learn fingering and
some tunes before you pick up the pipes.

If you find an instructor, get his/her help finding a set of pipes.

I'm sure some others will have comments for you also.

Andrew
- --
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
[e-mail]
Santa Cruz, California U.S.A.

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:27:05 -0700
From: Andrew & Kristen Lenz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Teaching Theories

Regarding Teaching methods:

1) There was four of us in my class that started learning piping in
December 1997. Of the four, two of us have competed. The other two
probably won't be at competition level for another year. Ken and I have
competed (Ken also had private supplemental lessons) and I (who didn't)
have "quick fingers", so I think progress is based both in PRACTICE and
some natural ability. I practice on the chanter pretty much every day. I
played a tune for my instructor last time we met and he said it was good
enough to play in the band and that even I pulled off the taorluath at
the quick speed at which I played it. (See below.)

2) Learning speed. I believe in learning embellishments and tunes slowly
at first. Get them even and accurate then speed them up, occasionally
playing them faster than you can accurately, but have a good base to
work from. You have to able to play them accurately slowly to be able to
play them accurately faster. I even go back and practice my D-throws
taking 2 seconds to play a single throw, even though I can play them
perfect very fast. This keeps them open, even, and accurate.

My two cents.
Andrew
- --
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
[e-mail]
Santa Cruz, California U.S.A.

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:09:57 +0100
From: "lsrapm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: On the beat?

JOHN MITCHELL <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
>
> Jginmd <[e-mail]> wrote in
> >    My answer: People never say fuckYOU and assHOLE or di-CKHEAD. They
say
> FUCK
> > you, ASS hole and DICKhead. At least that's what they say to me much of
> the
> > time. Why? I guess because a two syllable, FIRST syllable emphatic
implies
> more
> > stress.
> > JGS
>
> WHAT an ANALysis,  FUCKING brilliant!
>
> SO WHAT your saying, is just play the SAME fucking way,
> that you DRIVE your car on the GOD damm highway
> at RUSH hour.
>
> The only exception is when you play a round reel style,
> and you scream at the other driver, "GET THE FUCK
> OUT OF MY WAY YOU JERK, I'M GOING TO BE
> LATE FOR MASSED BANDS AND MY PM IS
> GOING TO KILL ME!"
>
> Oops, anger management therapy kicking in again!
>
> IT'S time for a wee pint.
>
> Cheers all
>
> John

Oh John.... well done.... you've excelled yourself here.

(This is definitely the best thread going at the moment.)

And, what's more the language is actually.. well ... er.. l mean... it is
actually EMPHASISING the point.

As I was saying.... with the "79th Farewell...", you should always put the
stress on the FIRST F......

Chris






- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:16:20 +0100
From: "lsrapm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Gibson Pipes Update (was "cost of bagpipes")

madman <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> Sometimes,you just can't beat the way the old masters used to do things.
> Mass-production sucks.

Keep them coming, Dave.
This is good stuff from someone who know what he's talking about.

Chris Eyre




- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:32:23 +0100
From: "lsrapm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Teaching Theories

JOHN MITCHELL <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> I was at the local Piper's Society meeting on Friday
> and made an interesting observation
> about the GR4 solo contest.
>
> 4 players and 2 were from the same band.
>
> Player 1, played the march much to fast with no music
>                or expression, execution was just OK.
> Player 2, played the march at a very slow pace,
>                with much of the execution laboured.
>
> players 3&4, played a wonderful march at about
>                      78 BPM with good phrasing and
>                       excellent clean execution.
>
> This brought up the subject of  Natural Talent and
> it's relationship to good instruction.
>
> With the 2 players coming from the same source
> of instruction, and that source has continually
> output many good players, then I would conclude
> that the method of instruction has to be a major
> factor in the success of a good player.
>
> That instructor is Gail Brown who has turned out
> numerous young players. Some are playing with
> the Frasers & Toronto Police, while another is
> a Young PM and her band has just won
> the Champion Supreme for grade 4.
>
> Anyways, her methods are working. Other instructors
> are having their pupils playing dragged out music
> with big laboured execution. This seems to be the
> norm. If you play it slow and practice it slow, how the
> hell are you ever going to pay the music up to it's
> appropriate tempo.
>
> Maybe what Beginners need to do first is get
> their execution up to tempo, then they can
> concentrate on playing the music
> as it was meant to be played.
>
> Why is it that Marching bands and school orchestras
> can play lively music, In my first year in the school,
> we played the theme from National Geographic.
>
> Maybe we should start applying some basic music
> theory to our methods, instead of settling for this
> hack method of playing it slowly until the student
> is good and ready to play at the proper tempos.
>
> Yep, lets crack the whip and make those fingers
> work now, before they get set into permanent slow
> motion.
>
> John
>

I'm in the UK, where we don't have grades 1,2,3,4,5 for solo piping. For us,
once you've turned 18 and out of the Juvenile class, it's just Open, Local
or nothing.  So I'm finding this topic VERY interesting. I was talking to a
piper in the US the other night (yeah! - on the telephone!) who was telling
me about the slow pace that the lower grades play at in the US in order to
get precise execution.

Can anyone give me a clearer idea of what speeds we're talking about here -
like metronome readings?

Chris Eyre





- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:14:50 +0100
From: "Robert Low" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Teaching Theories

>Maybe we should start applying some basic music
>theory to our methods, instead of settling for this
>hack method of playing it slowly until the student
>is good and ready to play at the proper tempos.
>
>Yep, lets crack the whip and make those fingers
>work now, before they get set into permanent slow
>motion.


I was taught that in practising you should always play only as slow as you
need to get the gracenotes in correctly (with the right spacing in complex
movements like taorluath) and with the tune's pointing correct. That is what
I take as my definition of "slow" - and it works for me. Thus as I start to
learn a tune, it'll be a slo-mo affair for a bit, then gradually I'll take
the tempo up - but the main thing is to listen objectively and drop the
tempo back as soon as the shape or execution start to suffer from the speed.

Bob



- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:19:58 +0100
From: "lsrapm" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Teaching Theories

Bill,
Believe me when I say this - there IS a place for you here - as there surely
is for any other learner. You show an innate honesty about you that isn't
that obvious with some others. But I think you need to be a little more
cautious - and thoughtful perhaps - about the way you think about some of
the guys on this group. John, for instance, when he said that you were
"harmless" was not meaning to slight you in the least. He was trying to tell
you that your heart is in the right place (which it is) but that your
knowledge of the subject has some way to go yet. Believe me now, we've all
been in that position in our time. Many of us still are! (I have always said
that the day I stop learning will be the day I give up pipes - someone else
said something very similar here just a few days ago)

> Just when I was beginning to think you were just a drunken ol' fart whose
days
> were numbered, you come out with something intelligent like this...

Bill, John might like his drink from all accounts, (don't we all, John? Good
stuff, aint it??!),  but do you really think he'd be playing at the World's
near the top of Grade 2 if he's wasn't still one hell of a good player?
Didn't you listen to his first 1st 8 bars of "Susan MacLeod" - played.. what
was it? 18 times.... in different pitches on... what?... 6 different
chanters during his little experiment last year? Which he put on just for
our benefit....  I can appreciate just how much work he put in to that.

and then you say....

> I reverse my earlier judgement ONLY because I recently started playing my
tune
> (only one LOL) WAY faster than I (or anyone else) thought I was capable
of, and
> suddenly I'm improving after a long stagnant period.

ONE tune, Bill???

How can you judge the merit of any bagpipe in front of the whole world like
this when you only play one tune????

Bill, listen...... DON'T GO AWAY!

Learn!

That's what I'm doing!

Chris

(-:










- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:55:58 -0700
From: Andrew & Kristen Lenz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: First Competion

Ok, I went ahead and posted the updated version, so it's done:
http://alumni.cse.ucsc.edu/~alenz/bagpipe_compete_tip.html

I added a new big links page to my site also for the heck of it.

Andrew
- --
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
[e-mail]
Santa Cruz, California U.S.A.

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1999 00:56:01 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Raistlin88)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Teaching Theories

   Great advice John.  This is something I try to really stress with my
students.  I'm new at teaching and I'm glad you mentioned this, so I must be
doing something right ; )  I don't know if you were talking about the speed of
embellishments too, but I noticed about 99% of the less than good piper's major
problem is playing embellishments too slow or big, especially doublings.  A lot
of them get told to open up their embellishment which they take as meaning make
the grace notes bigger, which is totally wrong.  There is nothing that sounds
worse than when someone plays something with big huge grace notes, it
completely ruins the musicallity and just sounds bad.  I think people need to
realise once they can play it slow they have to speed it up, a lot of them
think if you keep playing is slow long enough the speed will come and they are
forever stuck.
Casey

Disclaimer: embellishments should only be sped  up to a certain degree, I'm NOT
saying that you should make it so fast you can't here the grace note, or the
doubling is crushed into one grace note
>
>JOHN MITCHELL <[e-mail]> wrote in message
>news:[e-mail]...
>> I was at the local Piper's Society meeting on Friday
>> and made an interesting observation
>> about the GR4 solo contest.
>>
>> 4 players and 2 were from the same band.
>>
>> Player 1, played the march much to fast with no music
>>                or expression, execution was just OK.
>> Player 2, played the march at a very slow pace,
>>                with much of the execution laboured.
>>
>> players 3&4, played a wonderful march at about
>>                      78 BPM with good phrasing and
>>                       excellent clean execution.
>>
>> This brought up the subject of  Natural Talent and
>> it's relationship to good instruction.
>>
>> With the 2 players coming from the same source
>> of instruction, and that source has continually
>> output many good players, then I would conclude
>> that the method of instruction has to be a major
>> factor in the success of a good player.
>>
>> That instructor is Gail Brown who has turned out
>> numerous young players. Some are playing with
>> the Frasers & Toronto Police, while another is
>> a Young PM and her band has just won
>> the Champion Supreme for grade 4.
>>
>> Anyways, her methods are working. Other instructors
>> are having their pupils playing dragged out music
>> with big laboured execution. This seems to be the
>> norm. If you play it slow and practice it slow, how the
>> hell are you ever going to pay the music up to it's
>> appropriate tempo.
>>
>> Maybe what Beginners need to do first is get
>> their execution up to tempo, then they can
>> concentrate on playing the music
>> as it was meant to be played.
>>
>> Why is it that Marching bands and school orchestras
>> can play lively music, In my first year in the school,
>> we played the theme from National Geographic.
>>
>> Maybe we should start applying some basic music
>> theory to our methods, instead of settling for this
>> hack method of playing it slowly until the student
>> is good and ready to play at the proper tempos.
>>
>> Yep, lets crack the whip and make those fingers
>> work now, before they get set into permanent slow
>> motion.
>>
>> John
>>
>



- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1999 01:13:40 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Raistlin88)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Gibson Pipes Update (was "cost of bagpipes")

Amen John.  The great posts just keep coming.  For some reason on this ng
people ( not just Bill) take every chance there is to trash gibson, I'm getting
very tired of it.
Casey


>
>Sir just drop the chalupa <[e-mail]> wrote in message
>
>> My opinion of Gibsons is based on the three sets I've seen. All looked
>like
>> scotch tape was the main ingredient. On one set the drone stocks or the
>drones
>> themselves, weren't even drilled straight. When you twisted them, the top
>of
>> the drones were spinning like the blades on a helicopter. Just (in my
>> experience)
>
>Your experience, and opinion are based on the how many
>years of playing Bill?  One year.
>
>Bill maybe once you have played for a quite a few
>more years, then you will be able to form your own
>opinion and be able to judge a set of pipes based
>on your own requirements. Stop parroting others!
>
>The helicopter spin you talk about is very common
>on any set of pipes. It happens with the changing
>characteristics of the wood and can be solved by
>having the drones rebored, but only after
>it has been played for a year.
>
>If you had any experience with pipes, you would have
>known this, or maybe your sources conveniently
>forgot to tell you that fact.
>
>Gibson has more happy customers out there than
>dissatisfied ones, and like ANY business he
>does have his troubles. This doesn't mean it has
>to be puked up by the competition at every
>chance they get.
>
>If  KRON is so good, then let them stand on
>the Merits of their own product. If their product
>is worth anything, then it will be recognized by
>the piping community as a good product.
>
>Trying to get business by degrading the rest
>of the industry only shows that C.E. Kron and
>company are willing to go to anything expense
>to gain market share. That includes spitting
>on the very tradition and culture that gave it to them.
>
>I don't know about you Bill, but I prefer to do
>business with companies that have respect for people.
>
>Just wait  a few years Bill and Look Back.
>Then you'll realize what an ass you have
>made of yourself with the statements you've made
>against Gibson.
>
>If Kron wants to slag Him and the rest of the
>Scottish Pipe Makers, Let them do that themselves.
>After all, their the one's that are in it for the Money.
>
>John Mitchell
>
>I've got my Gibsons, I'm happy with the excellent
>sound and drone lock, so what do I need to keep
>doing battle for, Let them Fight it out.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1999 01:23:33 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ccc31807)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Hymns suitable for church play

Just wondering - how much of a demand would there be for a compilation of
500-600 evangelistic hymns, as commonly used by Protestant churches in the USA?

This would be coordinated with a widely available hymnal, which contains the
words to the hymns, etc.

The reason I ask this is because I have worked on this project for the past
several years, now have about 50 of the hymns done, and have found that there
is some demand for the more common hymns.  I intend to set as many as I can,
eventually, but if there is a demand, I can make it sooner rather than later.

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1999 01:25:30 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ccc31807)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Pipe Music Software

I have used Piobmaster, and have found it to be easy to use and very thorough.
My only complaint is that it is not very flexible, but that is not a major
problem.  There is an evaluation copy you can download and try.  It is a point
and click system, which is nice.

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Oct 1999 03:27:36 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ccc31807)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Piobaireachd

>>Ceol Mor has no melody, no harmony, and no rhythm.  But it is filled with
>the
>>most beautiful music.  It will sound like noise to you if you are not
>familiar
>>to you, and when you learn one, it will take you a good six months to
>>assimulate it.
>
>Ceol Mor does indeed have melody, harmony, and rhythm.  Without those
>three elements it is not music.

Well, yes, of course it has melody, harmony, and rhythm.  But I was not
speaking literally.  If you know piob., you know the elements.  But if you are
not familiar with it, you don't.

Try this experiment.  Take 1000 people at random, who are musical but who don't
know piob.  Play them any light tune ("Crossing the Minch") and any piob. five
time each, without telling them anything about the tunes.  then ask them to hum
the melody.  1000 of them could sing at least snippets of the Minch melody, but
1000 of them would not even be able to identify the piob. as a tune.  Even
pipers can't.  I had the experience of being at an informal recital with two
pipers, a man and wife, when the soloist was playing a poib. (I think it was
the "Old Woman's Lullaby") and they asked me about halfway when the soloist was
going to quit fooling around trying to tune his pipe and start playing some
tunes.

Ditto with rhythm.  1000 people can tap their foot in time with "Minch," but
can't with piob.  The rhythm is there, but it is subtle.

Ditto with harmony.  IMO, the harmonic progressions make piob., but they are
very subtle, and not at all obvious unless you know what you are looking for.
You can pick up the harmonic progression right off the bat with a tune like
"Moonstar" but not with piob.

Chris, this original post was by someone totally unfamiliar with piob.  Do you
really think I was misleading him by telling him up front that piob. had no
melody, rhythm, or harmony?  He won't be able to see these elements until after
he has learned several, and that will take years.

>
>Anyway, do we really really know EXACTLY FOR SURE everything that
>pipers played 500 or 300 years ago?

Of course not.  But we have tunes that can be reliably dated from the 16th
century, and they aren't 2/4 or 6/8 marches, hornpipes, or jigs, for sure.

>I like piobaireachd, it's okay ... but my preference is definitely
>pipe bands.  Many pipers feel this way.

Some people like rap.  Some like, or liked, disco.  Some like blue grass or
southern gospel.  Some like classical music, and there are subsets of that:
opera, ballet, piano, string quartets, etc.  No one can dictate to another
which form of music is "good" or "bad."  And certainly among pipers piob. holds
the alliegence of a distinct minority.  So I will state this as my opinion
only, and freely admit that I may be the only person in the world that holds
it:  PIOBAIREACHD IS THE MOST SUPERNATURALLY COMPELLING AND SPIRITUALLY
REWARDING OF ALL PIPE MUSIC, AND POSSIBLY OF MUSIC OF ANY SORT.

This can be an endless debate, so I salute you for your performance of "Birth
of Rory Mor McLeod" and like Ringo, wish you good piping.

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:03:51 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Royce Lerwick)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Korg Tuners

On Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:39:24 -0400, "Jim Price" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

> Strange thing, on the front of my KORG AT-2 meter it says AT-2B on the back
>it says MODEL AT-2. I have no idea whether there is a difference or which
>one I have. Has anyone experienced a problem with tuning chanters in a
>circle with this meter and not being able to get a reading?
>
>Jim

If it's got the St. Andrew's cross on the front it's the AT-2B and the
difference is that a different "bagpipe" scale replaces the chromatic
scale, A is base calibrated at 470 or 471, can't remember exactly.
From there you can recalibrate it up to I think about 478 or 80. What
this means is you get to look at "A" when you sound a low A, instead
of a A#.

Royce

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:05:22 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Royce Lerwick)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Making a Living at Piping?

On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 16:20:31 GMT, dana ezekiel <[e-mail]>
wrote:

>The band in Scotland that he played with is the Scottish Gas pipe band,
>other than that he played with the the LAPD pipe band in the states.
>
>Dana
>
>Royce Lerwick wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 05:17:39 GMT, dana ezekiel <[e-mail]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The only one that I know having a good time making a living at piping is
>> >my friend Mike Katz, the piper from the Battlefield Band.
>>
>> Yeah, but what *really* good bands has he played with?
>>
>> Royce

Well, we'll have to check with Mitchelle, if he's in a lucid condition
right now, to see if that's sufficient to make him a "real" piper.

Royce

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:06:19 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Royce Lerwick)
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Making a Living at Piping?

On Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:53:23 -0400, "JOHN MITCHELL"
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>
>Royce Lerwick <[e-mail]> wrote in message
>> On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 05:17:39 GMT, dana ezekiel <[e-mail]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The only one that I know having a good time making a living at piping is
>> >my friend Mike Katz, the piper from the Battlefield Band.
>>
>> Yeah, but what *really* good bands has he played with?
>>
>> Royce
>
>Yea, Scottish Gas Pipeband, BOZO

Oh, thought that was only a grade 2 band.

Royce

- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:06:22 GMT
From: "Ron Bowen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (bagpipe) Re: Gibson Pipes Update (was "cost of bagpipes")

Excellent post, Dave.  Couple of comments.  Well, more than a couple...

1) I am aware of one other maker that pre-bores and stores the wood for a
minimum of 6 months.  I can make certain assumptions, however what are your
reasons for following this process?

2) After pre-boring, what are the conditions under which the wood ages.  Is
it hot and dry, or is it cool and damp?

3) I believe that the trees were much more mature at harvest 100 years ago
than they are today.  Is this true and does this make a difference in the
quality of wood?

4) How much waste is currently associated with one set of pipes?  I recently
saw perhaps 50 pounds of wasted blackwood in conjunction with 7 sets of
pipes.  Flaws were splits and worm holes.  Is this usual?  End cuts from the
stock was also part of the waste.

5) At what point is blackwood more prone to warping, when new or when it is
old?  What are the factors at play and how does one best avoid having their
pipes warp?

6) I thought that all makers would take precautions to ensure that the OD
was concentric to the ID.  It's hard to believe that a maker wouldn't do
this, however this would account for some of what we see out there.

7) I generally rotate a piece in my hands to determine straightness and
roundness.  I also roll a piece across a flat surface (tabletop) and observe
it's behavior.   I also use a lathe with a cup-chuck and a live-end.  What
other methods would you recommend before buying?   What other
"craftsmanship" issues would you tell a buyer to look for?

We rarely hear from other makers on the NG and appreciate your insights.

Ringo



madman <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:[e-mail]...
> Ron Bowen wrote:
> >
> > It is my understanding that a pilot hole is drilled (one continuous pass
> > through) into the stock and then the wood is stacked and further aged.
> (No flame intended ,just edification)
> Thats the way "WE" do it,I *seriously* doubt anyone else does it that
> way.
> A)-it wouldn't be cost effective
> With the demand for a set of bagpipes nowadays,if you don't have sets
> ready to go,
> you're screwed.
> We *purposefully* limit production of our GHB,this allows us to always
> have the highest quality of wood available.
> B)-With the modern boring methods,most makers use,this would be
> problematic.
>   The geometry of the modern gun-drill does not like to open up
> pre-existing bores.
>
> > After several months, it is then redrilled and turned into the various
> > bagpipe parts.  The stock turns in the lathe on the inside bore which is
the
> > perfect center.  Now provided there is no warping after the piece is
> > manufactured, the piece should be perfectly straight.
> Thats just plain *not* how it works.
> I'll do my best to explain this.
> Lets assume you've got a piece of wood in your hands that is round.
> Its 7.5 inches long,it has been turned "center to center",and is true
> and concentric,
> on both the x(up and down) and z(left to right)axis.
> So now you've got a piece of wood which is concentric and true on *two*
> geometric
> planes.(x,and z,  ...a coordinate system).
> By definition,it is a perfect cylinder,*and* the ends are perfectly
> parallel to one another.
> Now ,you have to bore it.
> How you are going to bore it (for this illustration) doesn't mattter.
> The wood will be "pilot bored",with an ever so slightly smaller drill,
> (usually a simple twist drill)than the main deep-hole drill(usually a
> gun-drill).
> This pilot bore is not going to go in very deep,  .250 ,is all that is
> necessary to guide the gun-drill.
> However,...the pilot bore *MUST* be as close to dead center as possible.
> the pilot bore is critical in assuring that the gun-drill will go in
> straight.
> Next....you're going to gun-drill the bastard.
> OK, its finished.
> Now you've got a piece of wood which *was* true and cylindrical,on the
> *OD*,
> but now has a bore on the ID ,which is only concentric with the OD,on
> the end that was piloted.(if you're lucky).
> It still has to be cut to length,and you've got to turn the OD
> concentric,based on your two new centers.
>
> What is being used in this case is a hydraulic "mimic",which traces an
> outline of a
> pre-existing shape,and profiles the OD.
> (and this is ABSOLUTELY NOT THE WAY I DO THINGS!!)
> One end of the wood would be "chucked",in a three-or four jawed
> self-centering chuck,
> and the other end would be supported by the tailstock quill.
> This is the problem......Not squaring up between secondary operations of
> boring and finish profiling.
> Since one end of the wood is being held on the OD, by a chuck, and the
> inside bore
> is NOT concentric with the chucked OD,you've got a problem.....
> The finished,cut-to-length piece is going to look like the bore is not
> concentric with the OD...because it is not.
>
> Traditionally,a maker is going to hand -turn the wood after it is bored.
> Constantly "squaring up" the wood on both the z,and x, axis.
> Which means turning the OD concentric with the ID as he is cutting to
> length on the lathe.
> In this case,a cup-chuck is used,which ameliorates all those
> secondary-operations.
> Sometimes,you just can't beat the way the old masters used to do things.
> Mass-production sucks.
>
> >



- -
 To unsubscribe to bagpipe, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe bagpipe" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

End of bagpipe-digest V1 #132
*****************************

-
 To unsubscribe to $LIST, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe $LIST" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.