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abolition-usa-digest    Friday, September 14 2001    Volume 01 : Number 464




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:10:52 -0400
From: David Culp <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) FCNL: Congressional Response to Attacks

FCNL LEGISLATIVE ACTION MESSAGE - [9/13/01]

The following action item from the Friends Committee on National Legislation
(FCNL) focus on federal policy issues currently before Congress or the
Administration.

TOPIC: CONGRESSIONAL RESPONSE TO ATTACKS.

Congress is acting quickly to respond to the attacks on the U.S. this past
Tuesday.  The House and Senate are expected to approve a $20 billion
emergency spending bill by tonight (Thursday 9/13), giving the President
broad discretion to use the funds as needed for disaster relief, repairing
public buildings and infrastructure, expanded investigations and
intelligence gathering, increased security on national transportation
systems, and increased military security.

The second, more troubling, bill is likely to be a resolution authorizing
the President, in advance, to take action to retaliate for the attacks.  The
resolution is still being drafted.  At issue are: 1) whether the President
should be given advance authority to act without further authorization from
Congress, and 2) whether and in what way Congress should limit the
President's authority to act.  Some are concerned that granting broad war
powers to the President would also give him the authority to curtail civil
liberties.

As reported in the CQ Daily Monitor, Sen. Hatch (UT) has said he thinks the
President should be granted "wide powers."  Sen. Biden (DE), however,
stated: "There's no doubt that the President has the right to retaliate, but
it is wise and necessary for national unity for him to ask [Congress] for
that when he feels it's prudent."

Given the strong desire on the part of the Democratic and Republican
leadership to put forward an image of national unity at this time, the
discussion over the resolution language is likely to take place behind
closed doors. When they reach unity, the resolution will likely move quickly
to the floors of the House and Senate for votes.  This could occur as early
as tonight (9/13), tomorrow, or early next week.  (Tune in to C-Span to get
the latest information.)

ACTION: Please contact your representative and senators as soon as possible.
Urge them to oppose granting the President wide war powers.  This is not a
time for precipitous military action.  There is no reason for Congress to
surrender its constitutional authority at this time.  This IS a time for
quick, cooperative action by U.S. law enforcement agencies and governments
around the world to identify and capture those who aided and abetted in the
commission of these atrocities and to bring them before a court of law.

War is not the answer to the horror and violence of these attacks.  War,
destruction, and hatred between peoples are what the perpetrators of these
heinous acts apparently seek. The U.S. should not give them what they want.
If the U.S. declares war, the hijackers and their supporters will have won.
Instead, the U.S. should proceed swiftly, steadfastly, and in cooperation
with other countries to bring the perpetrators to justice under law.  A
sample letter may be found on FCNL's web site.  You can personalize the
language and send the message as an email directly from our site or print it
out and mail it.  To view the letter, click on the link below, enter your
zip code in the <Take Action Now> box, then click the <Go> button.  Here is
the link:
<http://capwiz.com/fconl/issues/alert/?alertid=50138&type=CO&azip=>

A similar message should be sent to the President.  A sample letter may be
found on FCNL's web site.  You can personalize the language and send the
message as an email directly from our site or print it out and mail it.  To
view the letter, click on the link below and then click the <Go> button.
Here is the link:
<http://capwiz.com/fconl/issues/alert/?alertid=50141&type=PR&azip=>.

Friends Committee on National Legislation:
Statement on the Attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and
Civilian Aircraft

Our hearts go out today to the victims of Tuesday's terrible attacks on the
World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the people in the four civilian
aircraft.  We call on Friends and others across the U.S. to offer prayers,
solace, friendship, and aid to the survivors, families, and friends of the
victims.  We commend the heroic efforts of public safety personnel and the
many others who, at great personal risk, are working to rescue and treat the
victims of these tragedies.

We join with people across the country and around the world in expressing
the hope that those who planned and orchestrated these terrible acts will
soon be brought to justice under the rule of law.

We are concerned, however, about how the U.S. government responds now.
First, we are concerned that the U.S. not avenge these attacks with attacks
upon other innocent people who may happen to be of the same nationality,
faith, or ethnic group as the alleged perpetrators.  This concern extends to
protecting the safety and rights of people here at home.  Many in this
country of the Islamic faith or of Middle Eastern descent are worried that
they may now become the unwarranted focus of suspicion in their communities
or, worse, the subjects of unjust persecution.

Second, many in the administration and Congress have declared that a state
of war now exists.  We are concerned that these public statements may be
stirring the popular will and expectation for war.  We wonder:  War against
whom?  Cooler heads must prevail in the U.S. government during this time of
crisis.  War will only compound the tremendous assault on humanity that has
already occurred.  War is not the answer.  The people who committed these
acts struck with hatred.  They saw the people in the World Trade Center, the
Pentagon, and the aircraft as faceless enemies.  They denied the humanity of
their victims.  The U.S. must not commit the same sin by compounding the
hatred, violence, and injustice of these attacks with its own acts of terror
and war against another people, most of whom are innocent of these crimes.

Finally, the people who planned these suicide attacks were able to draw
volunteers from a growing number of people around the world who harbor deep
resentment and anger toward the U.S.  It is important that we in the U.S.
try to hear and understand the sources of this anger.  If we in the U.S. do
not seek to understand and address the roots of this anger--poverty,
injustice, and hopelessness--then the violence may well continue, no matter
what the U.S. does to try to prevent it.

As members of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) we witness to that
spirit of love which takes away the occasion of war.  Out of darkness and
tragedy, may God show us the path of true and lasting peace.









CONTACTING LEGISLATORS

Capitol Switchboard: 2022243121

Sen. ________
U.S. Senate
Washington, DC 20510

Rep. ________
U.S. House of Representatives
Washington, DC 20515

Information on your members is available on FCNL's web site:
http://capwiz.com/fconl/dbq/officials/directory/directory.dbq?command=congdi

CONTACTING THE ADMINISTRATION

White House Comment Desk: 202-456-1111
FAX: [phone]
E-MAIL: [e-mail]
WEB PAGE: http://www.whitehouse.gov

President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC 20500
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
This message supplements other FCNL materials and does not reflect FCNL's
complete policy position on any issue.  For further information, please
contact FCNL.

Mail: 245 Second Street, NE, Washington, DC 20002-5795
Email: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Toll Free: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Web: http://www.fcnl.org

Your contributions sustain our Quaker witness in Washington.  We welcome
your gifts to FCNL, or, if you need a tax deduction, to the FCNL Education
Fund.  You can use your credit card to donate money securely to FCNL through
a special page on FCNL's web site http://www.fcnl.org/suprt/indx.htm
FCNL also accepts credit card donations over the phone.  For more
information about donating, please contact the Development Team directly at
[e-mail]. Thank you.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
This message may be found regularly on FCNL's web site http://www.fcnl.org
where a printer-friendly version is available and on PeaceNet in the
fcnl.updates conference.

This message is distributed regularly via the fcnl-news mailing list.  To
subscribe to this list, send an e-mail message to

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- -----------------------------------------------------------------
We seek a world free of war and the threat of war
We seek a society with equity and justice for all
We seek a community where every person's potential may be fulfilled
We seek an earth restored...


David Culp, Legislative Representative
Friends Committee on National Legislation (Quakers)
245 Second Street, N.E.
Washington, D.C.  20002-5795
Tel: [phone], ext. 146
Toll free: [phone], ext. 146
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]
Web site: www.fcnl.org






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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:23:38 -0500
From: "Boyle, Francis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) FW: Another Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?

Francis A. Boyle
Law Building
504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
Champaign, IL 61820 USA
217-333-7954(voice)
217-244-1478(fax)
[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>



- -----Original Message-----
From: Institute for Public Accuracy [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:39 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Another Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?


Institute for Public Accuracy
915 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045
[phone] * http://www.accuracy.org * [e-mail]
___________________________________________________

         Thursday, September 13, 2001

         * Another Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?
         * "Because We Embrace Freedom"?

FRANCIS BOYLE, [e-mail]
Professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of
Law, Boyle said today: "According to the facts in the public record so far,
this was not an act of war and NATO Article 5 does not apply. President
Bush has automatically escalated this national tragedy into something it is
not in order to justify a massive military attack abroad and an apparent
crackdown on civil liberties at home. We see shades of the Tonkin Gulf
Resolution, which the Johnson administration used to provide dubious legal
cover for massive escalation of the Vietnam War."

MATT ROTHSCHILD, [e-mail], http://www.progressive.org
Editor of The Progressive magazine, Rothschild said today: "President Bush
said that America was targeted 'because we embrace freedom.' Not knowing
with any certainty who the attackers were, it's hard to speculate on their
motives. But many groups in the Third World have grievances that are more
specific than the ones Bush mentioned.... The Pearl Harbor analogy has
frightening connotations. Two months after Japan's surprise attack, the
U.S. government rounded up Japanese Americans into internment camps. Now it
seems highly improbable that Arab Americans or Muslim Americans will be
rounded up, but what does seem quite possible is that the media's obsessive
focus on a non-differentiated Islamic fundamentalism -- mixed in with
nativist sentiment that is always on the shelf -- will create a cocktail of
hate crimes."

RANIA MASRI, [e-mail], http://www.peace-action.org
A national board member of Peace Action, Masri said today: "In Raleigh,
N.C. -- where I live -- the local mosque received two bomb threats the day
of the attack. The Islamic School in Raleigh had to close -- due to fear
for its students' safety. People driving by the mosque have been spewing
racist statements -- such as 'sand niggers go home' and 'death to you all.'
Several Arab women wearing Hijab had stones thrown at them from passing
cars, and have been spat on at the main university campus. In pockets
across the U.S. and Canada, the verbal threats have become direct physical
assaults."

DAVID COLE, [e-mail]
Professor of law at the Georgetown University Law Center, Cole said today:
"In the past we have responded to acts of terrorism by clamping down on
basic civil liberties, by anti-immigrant actions, and by engaging in
unjustified and widespread guilt by association."

LARRY BIRNS, [e-mail], http://www.coha.org
Director of the Council on Hemispheric Affairs, Birns said today: "The
Senate is ducking its responsibility in today's pro forma confirmation
hearings on John Negroponte as the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.
No public witnesses are being heard. While the Bush administration has
professedly become an apostle of democracy, it has selected one of the most
tainted figures of the Central American wars of the 1980s to be its
ambassador to the UN."

RYME KATKHOUDA, [e-mail], http://www.wbix.org
A correspondent with WBIX, which is producing community internet radio in
Manhattan, Katkhouda witnessed the collapse of the World Trade Center
towers.

For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy:
Sam Husseini, [phone]; David Zupan, [phone]





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:33:54 -0700
From: [e-mail] (marylia)
Subject: (abolition-usa) Livermore vigil-complete text

Dear friends: The first sentence of the flier about the Livermore vigil got
lost in cyberspace when I sent it this morning. I apologise. I will try
again. Here it is,,, In Peace, Marylia

If the United States begins bombing another country, meet that first
evening at 7 PM at the Peace Monument at the Livermore main library, 1000
South Livermore Ave. (at Pacific Ave.).

Bring a candle or song, or simply come with love.

We vigil for peace and call for an end to hatred and violence in all of its
forms. We affirm the connectedness of all peoples everywhere.

We condemn the acts of violence perpetrated on September 11, 2001 in New
York, Pennsylvania and Washington, DC, and we mourn the loss of many lives.

Similarly, we do not condone any bombing attacks by our own government that
will likewise result in bloodshed and heartbreak in cities in other
nations.

Let peace begin with each of us.

Sponsored by
Tri-Valley CAREs
[phone]

All are welcome.

ends

Marylia Kelley
Tri-Valley CAREs
(Communities Against a Radioactive Environment)
2582 Old First Street
Livermore, CA USA 94550

<http://www.igc.org/tvc/> - is our web site, please visit us there!

[phone] - is our phone
[phone] - is our fax

Working for peace, justice and a healthy environment since 1983, Tri-Valley
CAREs has been a member of the nation-wide Alliance for Nuclear
Accountability in the U.S. since 1989, and is a co-founding member of the
Abolition 2000 global network for the elimination of nuclear weapons, the
U.S. Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons and the Back From the Brink
campaign to get nuclear weapons taken off hair-trigger alert.



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:22:55 -0400
From: Ellen Thomas <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) Alice Slater and other New York abolitionists, where are you?

Please, check in?

Love,


Ellen Thomas
Proposition One Committee
PO Box 27217, Washington DC 20038
202-462-0757 -- fax [phone]
[e-mail]  --  http://prop1.org

                 ***

      BAN ALL RADIOACTIVE BOMBS
* depleted uranium, fission, neutron *

Online Petition! - http://www.PetitionOnline.com/prop1/petition.html
Write Letter to Congress - http://prop1.org/prop1/letter.htm
Depleted uranium keeps on killing! - http://[e-mail]/2000/du/dulv.htm
NucNews -
http://prop1.org/nucnews/briefslv.htm


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 with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:25:26 -0400
From: Ellen Thomas <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) Actions in DC

- --=====================_42405789==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Actions in Washington, DC since September 12, 2001:

Every day, 5:00 p.m., Dupont Circle - Creative prayer vigil

- -----

Procession for Peace

On Friday evening, September 14th at 7:30 pm we will gather at 16th and
Columbia Road NW.   In silence and in sorrow we will process through nearby
neighborhoods carrying our loss and our call for peace.

All are welcome.  Bring your loved ones, your families, friends, colleagues,
neighbors and members of your religious communities.

Bring a candle to help heal the revenge and hatred of our world with our love
and our hope.

- --

Please Sign On:

We are a community of concerned people who have come together to grieve over
the tragic loss of human life on Tuesday, September 11th.  Representing
ourselves and dozens of organizations working for peace and social justice, we
condemn the attacks that have unleashed such terror and destruction in the
United States and sent shock waves throughout the world.

This is a time to mourn, reflect and to address the worldwide culture of
violence, which permits such atrocities. We call for peace and condemn any
calls for war, military retaliation, revenge, retribution, or any future acts
of violence by the United States Government, which will only continue this
cycle of senseless bloodshed and misery.

We call for respect and dignity, not guilt by association, harassment or
persecution of our Arab, Arab-American or Muslim friends and neighbors. This is
a time for us to come together as a global community that values life, not
death.

- -- For more information contact the American Friends Service Committee at (202)
265-7997 and the Washington Peace Center at 202-234-2000 -
mailto:[e-mail] --


__________________________________________________

*   Peace Through Reason - http://prop1.org  *
    Please sign the Online Petition! -
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/prop1/petition.html
     NucNews - Today and Archives -
     http://prop1.org/nucnews/briefslv.htm
__________________________________________________
- --=====================_42405789==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<b>Actions in Washington, DC since September 12, 2001:<br>
<br>
Every day, 5:00 p.m., Dupont Circle - Creative prayer vigil <br>
<br>
- -----<br>
<br>
Procession for Peace <br>
<br>
On Friday evening, September 14th at 7:30 pm we will gather at 16th and
Columbia Road NW.   In silence and in sorrow we will process
through nearby neighborhoods carrying our loss and our call for
peace.  <br>
<br>
All are welcome.  Bring your loved ones, your families, friends,
colleagues, neighbors and members of your religious communities. <br>
<br>
Bring a candle to help heal the revenge and hatred of our world with our
love and our hope.<br>
<br>
- --<br>
<br>
Please Sign On:<br>
<br>
</b>We are a community of concerned people who have come together to
grieve over the tragic loss of human life on Tuesday, September
11th.  Representing ourselves and dozens of organizations working
for peace and social justice, we condemn the attacks that have unleashed
such terror and destruction in the United States and sent shock waves
throughout the world. <br>
<br>
This is a time to mourn, reflect and to address the worldwide culture of
violence, which permits such atrocities. We call for peace and condemn
any calls for war, military retaliation, revenge, retribution, or any
future acts of violence by the United States Government, which will only
continue this cycle of senseless bloodshed and misery. <br>
<br>
We call for respect and dignity, not guilt by association, harassment or
persecution of our Arab, Arab-American or Muslim friends and neighbors.
This is a time for us to come together as a global community that values
life, not death.<br>
<br>
- -- For more information contact the American Friends Service Committee at
[phone] and the Washington Peace Center at 202-234-2000 -
<a href="mailto:[e-mail]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[e-mail]</a>
- --<br>
<br>
<br>

<font size=3>__________________________________________________<br>
<br>
*   Peace Through Reason - <a href="http://prop1.org/" eudora="autourl">http://prop1.org</a>  *<br>
    Please sign the Online Petition! - <a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/prop1/petition.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.PetitionOnline.com/prop1/petition.html</a><br>
</font><font size=2><i>     NucNews - Today and Archives -  <br>
     <a href="http://prop1.org/nucnews/briefslv.htm" eudora="autourl">http://prop1.org/nucnews/briefslv.htm</a><br>
</font></i><font size=3>__________________________________________________</font></html>

- --=====================_42405789==_.ALT--


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 To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:37:36 -0500
From: "Boyle, Francis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) NO RUSH TO WAR!/O'Reilly Factor/FOX/13Sept2001

- -----Original Message-----
From: Boyle, Francis [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 8:33 AM
To: Killeacle (E-mail)
Subject: NO RUSH TO WAR!/O'Reilly Factor/FOX/13Sept2001
Importance: High





SHOW: THE O'REILLY FACTOR (20:29)


September 13, 2001 Thursday


Transcript # 091303cb.256

SECTION: News; Domestic

LENGTH: 3973 words

HEADLINE: America Unites
How Should the U.S. Bring Terrorists to Justice?

GUESTS: Sam Huessini, Francis Boyle

BYLINE: Bill O'Reilly

BODY:
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.

O'REILLY: While most Americans are united in their support of President
Bush and the desire to bring Osama bin Laden and other terrorists to
justice, there are some differing voices.

Joining us now from Washington is Sam Husseini, the former spokesman for
the Arab Anti -- American Anti-Discrimination Committee, and from Urbana,
Illinois, is Francis Boyle, an international law professor at the
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign..........
....
O'REILLY: Cut his mike. All right, now, Mr. Boyle, Professor Boyle, let's
have a little bit more of a rational discussion here. That was absurd.

The United States now has to take action against certain segments in this
world who we know have been harbouring people like Osama bin Laden. That's
going to happen. How will you react to that?

FRANCIS BOYLE, LAW PROFESSOR: Well, first I think you have to look at the
law involved. Clearly what we have here, under United States domestic law
and statutes, is an act of international terrorism that should be treated
as such. It is not yet elevated to an act of war. For an act of war, we
need proof that a foreign state actually ordered or launched an attack upon
the United States of America. So far, we do not yet have that evidence. We
could...

O'REILLY: All right, now why are you, why are you, why are you taking this
position when you know forces have attacked the United States. Now, maybe
they don't have a country, but they are forces. They have attacked the
United States, all right? Without warning, without provocation. Civilian
targets. They've done everything that an act of war does.

So, I'm saying that because we live in a different world now, where borders
don't really matter, where terrorism is the weapon of choice, that you
would declare war -- if I were President Bush, I would declare war on any
hostile forces, notice those words, professor, hostile forces to the United
States. I would have a blanket declaration of war so I could go in and kill
those people. Would I be wrong?

BOYLE: Well, Bill, so far you'll note Congress has been unwilling to
declare war. And indeed, this matter is being debated right now. Right now,
it appears that what they are seeking is not a full declaration of war, but
only what we law professors call an imperfect declaration, which means a
limited use of military force under the War Powers Resolution of 1973.

Precisely for the problem that we don't know if any state was involved and
we still do not know who was responsible for this undoubted terrorist
attack upon the United States of America.

O'REILLY: All right, but we have the secretary of state saying that Osama
bin Laden now has been linked into and, you know, we don't have all the
intelligence information, as President Bush said today. He's not going to
give us, and he shouldn't, the people of America all the information that
they have. But when the secretary of state gets up and says, look, we know
this guy was involved to some extent, I believe him.

And he's a wanted man, professor. He's been wanted for eight years. The
Clinton administration didn't have the heart to get him and in the first
few months the Bush administration didn't either. We now know, and you just
heard the FBI agent say that Afghanistan has been involved for years
harbouring and training these kinds of people. Certainly, Afghanistan,
Syria, Libya, Iran, Iraq, those five countries, certainly have been hostile
to the United States and given safe harbour to these terrorists. That's a
fact.

BOYLE: Well, let me point out, the secretary of state was very careful in
the words he used. He said Osama bin Laden was a suspect. He did not accuse
him. And, again, under these circumstances...

O'REILLY: No, he didn't use the word suspect. He used another word.

BOYLE: The account I read in, just off the wire service, said suspect. But
let me continue my point. Under these circumstances, where we have 5,000
Americans dead and we could have many more Americans killed in a conflict,
we have to be very careful, Congress and the American people and the
president, in not to over-escalate the rhetoric, here.

We have to look at this very rationally. This is a democracy. We have a
right to see what the evidence is and proceed in a very slow and deliberate
manner.

O'REILLY: No, we don't. We do not, as a republic, we don't have the right
to see what the evidence is if the evidence is of a national security
situation, as you know.

Now, I'm trusting my government to do the right thing, here. I am trusting.
But I think it's beyond a doubt right now, beyond a reasonable doubt, which
is, as you know, a court of law standard, that there are at least five,
North Korea you could put in to, six states in the world that have
harboured continually these terrorists.

Now, we know that this was a well-coordinated effort. Our initial
intelligence shows that some of the people that have been arrested have
ties to Osama bin Laden. We know, as you just heard the FBI agent say, that
the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center was tied in to a guy who knew
bin Laden. So, bin Laden -- I agree with you, that you don't want to be a
hothead. You don't want to overreact. You don't want to lob a missile at
the pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan, which was terrible, and that was the
one good point, or fair point, that Mr. Husseini made, you don't want to do
that.

But, on the other hand, professor, I think Americans are rightful, are
right, to demand action against states that we know in the past have
harboured these individuals and there's a warrant out for Osama bin Laden's
arrest. So, if he is in Afghanistan, I would give that government a couple
of days to hand him over, and if they did not, I'd go in.

BOYLE: Well, again. The American people are right. We need to see the
evidence. I remember people saying a generation ago, during the Vietnam
war, I trusted my government. And I think people of my generation found out
that that was wrong. We needed more evidence.

O'REILLY: All right. Professor, let me stop you there, though. This is
another point that Mr. Husseini tried to make. Just because the United
States of America has made mistakes in the past, does not mean that we
cannot defend ourselves now.

This is a unique situation in history. We have now been attacked by forces
without borders, OK? We've been attacked. And it hasn't been a military
attack, it's been an attack on civilians. The reason, the sole reason a
federal government exists is to protect the people of the United States.
And as I said in my "Talking Points" memo, they haven't really done the
job, for political reasons.

But now's the time to correct those things. So, there's going to be a
reckoning, Professor. You know it's going to happen. I know it's going to
happen. And it's going to come down on Osama bin Laden first and maybe some
of these rouge states later. Will you support that action?

BOYLE: Before I support a war that will jeopardize the lives of tens of
thousands of our servicemen and women, I want to see the evidence that we
are relying on to justify this. So far, I do not see it. I see allegations.
I see innuendo. I see winks and I see nods, but I do not see the evidence
that you need under international law and the United States constitution so
far to go to war. Maybe that evidence will be there, but it is not there
now.

My recommendation to Congress is to slow down, let's see what develops and
let's see what this evidence is before we knowingly go out and not only
kill large numbers of people, perhaps in Afghanistan and other countries,
but undoubtedly in our own armed forces.

58,000 men of my generation will killed in Vietnam because of irresponsible
behavior by the Johnson administration rushing that Tonkin Gulf resolution
through Congress, exactly what we're seeing now. And we need to pull back
and stop and think and ask the hard questions and demand to see the
evidence first, before we march off to war.

O'REILLY: All right, so it's not enough that people arrested in the
bombings of the embassies in Africa testified in court that Osama bin Laden
was behind and financed and coordinated those bombings. That evidence is
not enough for you?

BOYLE: Well, Africa is a very is a very different story than what happened
in the World Trade Center.

O'REILLY: No, it's not. He's wanted, he's wanted in the United States for
the bombings of those two embassies. Is that evidence enough for you,
professor, for the United States to go in and get this man? Is it enough?

BOYLE: That, that matter was treated and handled as an act of international
terrorism in accordance with the normal laws and procedures of the United
States of America as a question of domestic and international law
enforcement. And I am suggesting that is the way we need to proceed here...

O'REILLY: Well, wait. You're dodging the question professor.

BOYLE: ... unless we have evidence that...

O'REILLY: Wait, professor. Professor. This is a no spin zone. Hold it. Hold
it. Even out in Urbana Champagne, the no spin zone rules. You're dodging
the question. There is an absolutely rock solid arrest warrant out for this
man. Evidence in court, testimony by people who did the bombings that this
man was behind it. Is that enough evidence for you to have the United
States go in and get him now? Is it enough?

BOYLE: The United States has been attempting to secure his extradition from
Afghanistan. I support...

O'REILLY: Yeah, that's long enough.

BOYLE: I support that approach as international...

O'REILLY: Come on already, I mean, eight years, we've been attempting to
extradite this guy. Now's the time to tell the Afghans you've got 48 hours
or 72 hours to turn him over. You don't turn him over, we're coming in and
getting him. You try to stop us, and you're toast. Enough is enough,
professor.

BOYLE: That's vigilantism. It is not what the United States of America is
supposed to stand for. We are supposed to stand...

O'REILLY: No, what that is is protecting the country from terrorists who
kill civilians.

BOYLE: ... for rule of law.

O'REILLY: It's not vigilantism.

BOYLE: We are supposed to stand for rule of law, and that is clearly
vigilantism. There is a Security Council, there is Congress, there are
procedures and there are laws, and they are there to protect all of us here
in the United States as well as...

O'REILLY: So, you're telling me...

BOYLE: ... as well as our servicemen and women. Look, Bill, if we
allegedly, as you put it, go in, you are not going in, I am not going in.
It's going to be young men and women serving in our armed forces...

O'REILLY: And that's their job. To protect us. But, professor, let me, you
know, what you're saying is, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold it. Hold it. Hold it.
Hold it.

B0YLE: ... with the constitution and the laws of the United States.

O'REILLY: We're not violating any laws here, professor. No one is going to
violate the law. There is going to be a state of war induced against
states, states, terroristic states, who have attacked us. And what you're
saying is, though, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that even
though there is a legitimate warrant out for Osama bin Laden's arrest, and
even though most civilized nations would honor that warrant and turn him
over to us, extradite him to us, the vast majority of nations on earth
would do that, you still are opposed for the United States to demand that
the Taliban government arrest this man and turn him over? You are opposed
to that?

BOYLE: During the Gulf War, President Bush's father, who has far more
experience that the current president Bush, got a Security Council
resolution authorizing the United States of America to use force to expel
Iraq from Kuwait. Second, President Bush's father got a War Powers
Authorization Resolution from Congress that gave him the constitutional
authority to use military force to enforce that Security Council resolution.

What I'm calling for here is the same adherence to international law and
the United States constitution that the first President Bush adhered to in
dealing with Iraq.

O'REILLY: Well, you'll get that, professor. That's just a formality. There
- -- nobody on Capitol Hill right now, they're not going to -- there's no
profile of courages up there anyway, usually. They're going to give
President Bush what he wants. If he wants a War Powers Act, they're going
to give it to him. He wants a declaration, they're going to give it to him.

BOYLE: Actually, they're arguing about it right now...

O'REILLY: They're going to give it to him. But I'm not interested in that,
because it's going to happen. It's going to happen.

BOYLE: The reports -- no, the reports I read was that this President Bush
initially asked for a blank check, and Congress balked because they had
been suckered once before...

O'REILLY: All right, I'm not -- speculation is not what I'm in -- all
right, professor. I don't want to speculate. I'm just going to say in my
opinion he's going to have the authority to go in and get Osama bin Laden
and his pals, wherever they are. He will get that authority, whether it
takes a day or a week, he'll get it. And once he gets it, now, that's what
I want to talk about here. Once he gets it, are you and others like you
going to say, oh, no, we shouldn't do this, even though we have proof of
the man's -- masterminded the bombings in Africa and the Cole,testimony in
Yemen, are you going to still say, even after the authority is granted by
Congress, which it will be, no, don't do it, let Afghanistan handle him?
Are you going to still do that, professor?

BOYLE: Second, like his father, his father also got authorization from the
United States, the United Nations Security Council under chapter seven of
the United Nations charter...

O'REILLY: Oh, you want to go to U.N. now? You want the U.N. involved now.

BOYLE: Is exactly what his father did...

O'REILLY: So what?

BOYLE: And that's exactly right.

O'REILLY: His father made a huge mistake by not taking out Sadam Hussein
when he could of.

BOYLE: His father adhered to the required procedures under the United
States constitution and the United Nations charter that is a treaty and the
supreme law of our land. I expect the current President Bush to do exactly
what his father did before he starts engaging in a massive military
campaign in Iraq or against other countries...

O'REILLY: All right, I don't know whether he's going to go -- I know he's
not going to let the U.N. dictate. He might go for a consensus. He's
already got it with Putin and all of our NATO allies, he's already go that.
Whether he goes -- I think it would be a mistake to let -- empowering the
U.N. in this situation.

BOYLE: Then why did his father do this?

O'REILLY: I'm going -- we're going to wrap this up with this. I'm going to
give my last summation and then you can give yours, I'll give you the last
word on it.

This is a fugitive we're dealing with here. He has now been tied in by U.S.
intelligence agencies, according to Attorney General Ashcroft and the
secretary of state, tied into this horrendous bombing here in New York. The
United States must make a response to this, and I am agreeing with you in a
sense, it can't be a knee-jerk. It's got to be done in a methodical way.

Congress will go along, they may debate it or whatever, but they will go
along in either a War Powers, special War Powers Act or a declaration of
war against forces hostile to the United States. Then they will go in and
they will take him. This man you're looking at on the TV screen is a dead
man. He should be a dead man. You don't do what he did and be allowed to
walk around this earth.

Now, I'm distressed, professor, by your reliance, reliance on the strict
letter of propriety, when we've got 10,000 people laying in the street
about 22 miles from me right now. I want deliberation. I want methodical
discipline, but I also want action. We know who this guy is. We know the
governments that are protecting him. We know the other rouge states that
have terrorist camps there. They all have to be dealt with, in my opinion.
I'll give you the last word.

BOYLE: Sure, I agree with you, Bill. He is a fugitive from justice and this
should be handled as a matter as other fugitives from justice of
international law enforcement. If indeed there is evidence that a foreign
state orchestrated and ordered an attack against the United States then
clearly that is an act of war that should be dealt with as such...

O'REILLY: What about harbouring?

BOYLE: Right now...

O'REILLY: Is harbouring an act of war?

BOYLE: In my opinion, no. And under the current circumstances, I don't see
it.

O'REILLY: All right, professor.

BOYLE: I think there is a distinction here.

O'REILLY: OK, all right, wrap it up, if you would.

BOYLE: I agree -- I agree that the -- if we go to war in a hasty manner
here, we could see thousands of U.S. military personnel being killed
without proper authorization by Congress or by the United Nations Security
Council.

O'REILLY: OK.

BOYLE: Our founding fathers decided that the most awesome decision we would
ever make would be to go to war, and we have to be very careful in making
that decision.

O'REILLY: All right, professor, I appreciate it very much. Thank you for
your point of view.

BOYLE: Thank you, Bill.



>Francis A. Boyle
>Law Building
>504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>Champaign, IL 61820 USA
>217-333-7954(voice)
>217-244-1478(fax)
><mailto:[e-mail]>[e-mail]
>
>

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