No I definately don't want to change my last name.
I want someone to look for me in twenty years and be able to find me in the phone book
in the city wherever. I have taken my dad's last name but it's short and easy to remember.
from now on on it will be carried on by my daughters. I don't know if my boyfriend will
take it or not but it would be a good business move on his part b/c it's short and easy to
remember.Besides I like being who i've been all my life. I don't want to dissapear because
i'm married.I always hated seeing a letter addressed to my mum entitled Mrs.Bob Blackwood (ugh)
she didn't exist it was all him,I found it rather creepy. Glad to see so many people thinking about the effect of a last name.
Later...
,

just a correction, i'm from spain and the 'de' in front of
the husbands name stands for 'mistress of'. Not his property,
his boss. Another thing, when a woman in spain gets married
her last name never changes, only in her social life she
could be called by her husbands name. Their child will have
two last names the first one's is the fathers and the second
the mothers. I think it's a more fair system.

Absolutely not. My name has served me well for the last 30 years. It's part of my identity-- just like my first name. Getting married means equality to me. I don't expect my boyfriend to change his last name for me and he doesn't expect that from me either. The whole giving up your last name for your husband thing is a lousy tradition in my opinion. It started as a way of males to show women as a posession. I don't think that many men feel that way but just expect it because most everyone else in the Western world does it. Girls, please THINK about this before you give up your name! Just because you might divorce isn't a good reason-- although it's a very practical one-- it has to do with being independent. It's especially sad when I hear of women of ethnicity giving up their name for "Smith" or "Jones"-- not only do they give up their personal identity but everything else it represents.

OHH, AND IF YOU LIKED MY COMMENTS THAN YOU CAN
PAGE ME ON POWWOW SOMETIME!
william@cyberconnection.net

OHH, AND IF YOU LIKED MY COMMENTS THAN YOU CAN
PAGE ME ON POWWOW SOMETIME!
william@cyberconnection.net

If he's not a dork, biosexual, mean, doesn't work,
THAN YOU DON'T TAKE HIS NAME CAUSE YOU DONT WANT A
MAN LIKE THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!

I dont see why not, well, if he's got a cool
name I guess I'll think it over but dont change
your name if the dudes a dork!!!

Well, how cools his name?

I personally would not take his name because you dont know
for sure if the relationship is going to last.
Thats why you shouldn't have any children before your married
The child my have only one parent it things dont work out.
So where would our society be if we took there name?

Here in modern times, when the chance of divorce, separation and
remarriage are so high for women, it would seem most logical to
keep ones own name and use that same surname for a mother's children.
As an expectant mother myself (the birth of my son is expected any day now)
I have made the decision to share my own name with my child.
I am the only person who has been with the child since day one and,
although I love his father very much, his chances of continued life-long
involvement with his son are simply not as great as mine.
It is very important to me that my child and I feel connected both
as members of the same family unit and links in a chain of history.
It is more than possible that I will one day marry the father of this child
and should that day come, he will be more than welcome to change his name to
mine. Should that day never arrive, I am glad to know that my son
and I will be forever connected both in our hearts and on
paper.

Yah.. Leroy, now you know. Its a major pain in the heiney for us. How does it feel?

I am a man who took on my wife's name, and I must tell you that it is a lot of trouble.
I took it because I didn't see it as a problem, and since it mattered to her, I chnaged mine.
I must say that it was a misteak. People understand a woman getting married and changing her name, but a man? The number of times I have had
to try to convince a credit card company or the US government of my identity is extreme, to say the least.
I don't see it as an insult to change my name, or strictly a female thing, but society does, and now my wife wishes she just took my name and saved us a lot of trouble and expense.

Here's a novel idea, why not take as a last name, both the husband and wife, of the place you first met, such as Jill and Jim Pizza-Hut, or the last name of your favorite science fiction character, Fred and Linda Kirk. This whole forum is completely stupid! What the hell does it matter? Especially in today's society where people are constantly changing their identities and names. In the U.S. the family does not exist in the same form as it used to, so the family name now is nearly irrelevant.

I got married 13 years ago. I did change my name. If I had it to
do over, I wouldn't change it. Sometimes I think about changing
my name back but I probably won't.

As I approached my wedding day, I became more and more confused, and somewhat ambivalent, about the "name" issue. I finally decided to keep my own name for a few reasons. The first was that I had had it for 26 years and was quite used to it. I was adopted 6 weeks after my birth, so it was actually my third name (birth mother named me, and the foster home named me before my parents). I guess I felt it had been changed enough times without my input; I didn't want to feel pressured into changing it again. Secondly, though I am less proud of this reason, my husband had an ex-wife who kept his name. I didn't want to be the "other Mrs. Soandso".
After two years of marriage, I am very happy with my decision. We both teach at the same high school, and it is fun to watch the reactions of students when they figure out we are married to eachother. It gives me a reason to show them that there is more than one way to approach situations......

yes i would.

I think I won�t ,reason? I�m not going to loose a part of me because I�m married and besides it seems men own us .
Why don�t they take our name?
(Sorry if there�s any spelling mistake ,I�m not a native English speaker)

I truly think it's time for women to stop taking their husband's name
I mean, what's the point? Granted, I come from a family where
my parents each kept their names and all the kids got
hyphenated last names (which isn't as bad as not smith thinks)
And also, I'm a performer, so it would be hard to change my
name on all my union cards... but beyond that, my name is
important to me an really special since it comes from both
my parents. I don't belong to my lover, and I don't want his
name. I am my own person.

I got married two years ago to my partner of now almost
ten years. He always asked me to take his name but
Smith is so dull in comparison to my own, and besides
it never really gave me a sense of personal history.
Hyphenating our names was a mouthful so
I suggested a compromise, combining the spelling of
both our names to something like South.
But my hubby wouldn't go for it.
So since no compromise can be reached I
keep my own!

Julianne,

I appreciate that you appreciate my feedback. After all,
I'm a nice girl too! Always begin with a compliment.
Then add a "but."

You might wonder why I responded by thinking that
you implied that you are falling into the arms of his
family. It's because of what you said:

But being adopted, and coming from a not
especially close family, and not being that attached to my last name,
there is a certain excitement in taking my fiance's name. I
love his family.

You also said in the same breath:
the only solution is
for the both of us to create a new last name together.
(which will never happen). My fiance supports any
decision I make.

I hope a hundred times that you "rant" or "rail" like you
say feminists do for Julianne. It keeps the equivocations down,
and, unequivocally, unappologically, Julianne is
"a woman of opinion". And concern for her welfare is
worth a rant if I do say so myself.

i'm not married but obviously i have two last namesand that's
because my mom didn't want to give up her last name. i think
that it's fine to change your last name or combine your last
name-like in my name instead of barnes-carr make it carrnes
or something like that. do whatever you believe in though

I appreciate Patsy's feedback, especially about
not selling my history short, or trying to belong
now to this new clan.
But what I wrote should not inspire a
rant on how I'm using being adopted as an excuse to need to
be filled up with my husband's love. Of course it's not a lesser
attachment when you are adopted. I think it makes you realize
even more how your identity doesn't attach itself to a name, but
to how you feel about yourself.
I resent the implication that adding his name to mine means
that i feel empty inside without adding his name - that it
will finally fulfill me. It's a symbolic thing - one that has
obviously inspired alot of women to question the tradition.
He wouldn't change his name to mine so he says, why should I?
It's a personal choice.

Mon Jul 7 07:52:13 PDT 1997
toni said:

"It's great to hear so many girls on this

forum talking such good sense!" 

Did that girl Toni object to a prevailing
"non-sensical' attitude in this forum, or
simply to the fact that Kath's opinion
disagreed with her/his?

Perhaps this Toni chick would be better
off sticking to a 'little camera boy'
persona.
Gosh -- I wonder?

It's never easy to do something different from the custom.

It doesn't sound like you want to go against custom.

Your husband to be will support any decision that you make
except the "only solution" that you can see. So does he
really support your decisions. Will he hyphenate his name?
Will he turn to you and say: "I love you so much I want to
you to fill me up. Let me take your last name so we
can create happiness around it; let me celebrate all
that you are and I want to be a part of it" Or would he likely
to take this suggestion poorly? Gee, it's love when you do
it.

Why can't you imagine him wanting to do this?
Is your name less valuable than his?

Just know this. Adopted children, like my brother, are true
kin. So don't reach for an excuse from the fact that you
are adopted or the fact that you take feminists as "railers"
If you think that adoption is a lesser attachment, it is no
less than the non-blood kin attachment that you will have
to his family.

This will not be the last time in your relationship where you
are at a crossroads. Don't sell your history short or
cut yourself to fit a club or clan. If you communicate
that your life sucked Before You Got Into This Family,
it can be a time bomb when the honeymoon is over.

Because one day, in the heat of argument, they'll use
it against you to get you to conform to their wishes
about anything from where to spend Christmas to whether
you breastfeed, and you'll have to decide whether
you'll consider yourself as a woman, as Julianne, as
valuable, or a beggar at love's door, grateful for their
emotional lodgings.

I'm torn. I'm getting married in two weeks, and I'm still not
sure what to do! I always thought that I would never take
my fiance's last name. But being adopted, and coming from a not
especially close family, and not being that attached to my last name,
there is a certain excitement in taking my fiance's name. I
love his family.
Plus, my last name is my father's name, and if the reason I am not taking
my fiance's is based on my feminist reasons of railing
against our patriarchial society, than the only solution is
for the both of us to create a new last name together. (which will never
happen). My fiance supports any decision I make.
I liked the earlier suggestion someone made of both of us using the other's
last name as a middle name.

When taking out an insurance policy we pay for it in
dollars and cents, always at liberty to discontinue
payments. But in marriage, why should a woman's premium
be her name, her privacy, her self-respect, her very life,
"until death doth part"? Because of custom? To me, the
bread of both partners is earned not in a name, but in Love.

As one that is fairly young (29) and never-married, I say
this with the upmost sincerity.

email: darrens@mindspring.com
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/1927/

Mindspring, it is awful big of you to be happy for
disrespectful people. I'm sure that you'd be right
behind Rosa Parks during her time, because after all
she was also disrespectful of a law and a custom of
her time.

If you marry because "you love everything about the person,
including last names" then, why doesn't the man take the
woman's name? Does he not love her? Why doesn't he hyphenate
his name if he is an "independent chick?"

You know, it's funny that women are given the advice that
changing their name is "a gift", "an act of love", "a
sign of respect" ... yet I wonder, if it's a gift of love
like flowers, why don't you see a more equal exchange?
Why don't you see men jumping to change their
names out of love? Is it beyond their capability? Or is
it a choice?

I guess most men are "independent chicks." For shame for their
women who have to be ribbed with catcalls like "gee, I guess
your man is some kind of independent chick, I wonder
what that says about his devotion to you!" And what will
the neighbors say?

I would most definately take my husbands last name! You marry a person because you love everything about them- that includes last names. For all you independant chicks out there I'm really happy for you wanting to keep your last name, but I think that it disrespects your hubby. Maybe you could use your middle name like a second middle name- then all are happy!

as an American, I have that viod in my history - I'm a mutt, and I am jealous of the people who are from other countries and have all of their ancestors from that country. My point, pertaining to this topic, is that I researched my name and became very proud of my Irish heritage. If I marry and take his name, I'll hear what stupid people say: You're irish? I didn't know that _insert name here_ was Irish! And then you have to explain about maiden names. It seems like people forget about that, that you were once named something else. it's a strange tradition. Why give women a last name at all? Why not just give them a first and middle name and let them take on a last name when they marry, if we want a REAL patriarchy...

Here's a novel idea: When a woman marries a man she does the hypenate thing, and so does he. Their children would take a combination of the mother's given name and the father's given name. When the children were to marry they'd either pick the name they liked or choose the name to recognize either thier mother or father. If this doesn't make any sense let me show an example:
Here is a purely hypothetical situation:
Lets say Mary Johnson-Smith is going to marry Bob Jones-Duncan. Then the two would choose which of thier two last names would be carried on. If Mary like Smith better then she'd keep that one and if Bob wanted to take Duncan then they would become, Mary and Bob Smith-Duncan. Their kids would also use the Smith-Duncan name until they married.
I think this is a good way to show the union of two people and a naming system without the symbolic ownership. In case you were wondering, the mother's name would always go first just because women have to go through labor.

Locally, we have a doctor who took his wife's name. He had a name that was difficult to spell and pronounce and his wife's was easier. He doesn't have a problem with it and neither does she. A different twist on the names. I took my husbands name because I was married so many years ago when it was the thing to do, if I were to do it today, I would keep my maiden name, after all it is "MY" name.

I did marry and I didn't take his name and it was a big issue for him. i believe if we take the man's name it is conforming to an outmoded way of thinking that women are the man's property. Whey should we take his name...however, i didn't want him to take mine either. Taking the man's name just feels like we are still buying into the patriarchal system.

toni: i thought this would be a cool website, but dogma is dogma. i made my choice on my own and thought i'd address an issue as it concerns me. i obviously failed to express myself sufficiently as the woman i am. i toe no one's line and never have - often to my disadvantage.

my mind, my heart, my choice.

y'all do what you like.

I don't want to be a bitch but Kath, really girl, you say taking your husband's name was "your choice completely" & that "he didn't care if I did" then later on in the same post go on to say "it was our dicision of the way we whished to present ourselves as a couple". THINK ABOUT IT!

Why are we even discussing this? Barely anyone on this forum has or would do it. It was one of those bastions of masculinity that has already been toppled. And for those who say it's a women's 'choice', historically it wasn't a choice at all, that was the point of it. To conceive of it as choice now is to indulge in a bit of a psychic mind-twist that makes no logical sense.
It's great to hear so many girls on this forum talking such good sense!

patsy: i guess i didn't express myself clearly. the last name really wasn't an issue for me. my maiden name was my father's name; my married name is my husband's name. it was my choice to make the change and, no, i don't think i'm a "good girl" compared to the first wife, it just seemed thoughtless to keep another husband's name when she remarried. it may be that i'm somewhat judgemental on that particular point, but i'm not fully-evolved yet. my husband didn't really care if she took his name or not and he didn't care if i did. it was my choice completely and, for me, not a big deal.

if someone doesn't wish to take their spouse's name, that's their choice. as to the "heart of the matter", i suppose i meant that if it became an insurmountable issue for either partner, than i would wonder if they didn't have other issues to work out.

my husband gave me a gift that meant more to me than if he had taken my last name or if we had created one for ourselves. we did what was right for us - as i hope any couple would. i'm sorry if my post seemed to imply that our choice was somehow superior to anyone else's. it was simply our decision of the way we wished to represent ourselves as a couple.

as to my comment about the name being the tie to the children, i was wondering if that was the case - that maybe we had some social anthropologists out there who knew.

kath
I wonder...
What do you think about your husband not taking your name?

Could you give him the "rose by any other name" argument?

And if you can give the "rose by any other name" argument,
it seems as if you are saying that you are somehow
a "good girl - let things roll off your back sorta gal"
as compared to the first wife. As if people who don't take
their spouses name aren't into the marriage as much, since
you "wonder what's at the heart of the matter."

It certainly sounds as if you've spent a lot of time comparing
your actions to the first wife's! If only your next husband
(God forbid, of course) were so kind as to give you the
gift of taking your name. That must be the glue that holds
a relationship together! At least you'd know "his heart
was right into the matter." And perhaps it will bother
him that your current husband didn't take your name!
Wouldn't that be a gift of love?

i've always thought that the reason a woman took her husband's name was more for identifying a link between the man and any children of the marriage.

well, i'm not having kids, but i took my husband's name. he didn't ask me too - it was a gift i gave him. his first wife didn't take his name. that's not such a big deal. it bothered me - probably more than it bothered him - that the name she continued to use was her first husband's name.i don't have a professional reason to keep my maiden - ack! - name and never went in for hyphenating. actually, because i was married in england, i gave up my last name altogether and hung on to my middle name instead. i've always been more interested in hanging on to my given names.

i can't help but think now "a rose by any other name..."

it's a choice, but it can be a loaded choice. i would wonder - if it becomes a big issue in a relationship - what the heart of the matter is.

I will not change my name, it is mine.
As for children the boys carry his and the girls carry mine. As I hope it will continue for generations.
We come from a long line of strong proud females.

well if i get married i think i am going to change my name..but not to his last name to one we both agree on sumthing different..or i may take my middle name "Kay" as my last name i dont associate with my father too much so i dont feel i should do him the favor of keeping his name..so for now i just call myself TiFFini Kay

When I got married in 1990, I didn't have to think
about this issue at all. To me, there was no question.
I was not going to change my name. It took me a long
time to build up a sense of "self" and a lot of it
was invested in my name. My full name. He's fine
with it. I'm thrilled. I am who I am and he knew
that when he proposed.

it's interesting that mainly men, and some women say it
is no big deal to take a man's name. If it is not, then
why don't you suggest that your man takes your name
and check out the response.

Gee, names often DO matter.... and many men consider it
to be shaming to take a woman's last name, thinking "What will
the guys say about me..?"

I think that if male names matter so much to men that
they ought to take the last name of the alpha male dog
that they are trying to impress with the "right-sort-of
I'm-not-a-feminist-but-and-its-a-sign-of-my-love" wife.
After all, they are romancing the approval of the
alpha dog more than the comfort and respect of their life
partner's preference on the change.

It depends, if his name is Hamilton I�ll think it over...

My boyfriend & I have decided to both change our names if we marry. A hyphenated or other creative solution to combining his maternal grandfather's name, whom he adored, and my current last name. Then, again, maybe I'll just keep my current name or change it to something totally different because there is a serious lack of cool menfolk in my family tree. Oh, well. Guess, I'm not sure what I want to do......

i might. it depends. i am an aspiring writer, so if i happen to be successful, i will keep my own name, which will be a pen name. i will also get a prenuptial agrrement to protect the profits that i make.

Just one more addition, point of clarification, whatever:

My last name is my grandmother's maiden name. My father's last
name is on my birth certificate, but I chose not to use it
after about age 10. He wasn't raising me, my mother was. And she
was using her mother's maiden name. I liked it and that was how
I identified myself anyway, so I started using it. I have had to
hyphenate (and I'm not even married!!) because of the legality
question, so I don't want to go through that again.

And in response to rosemary's story, in Spain, people's names include
both the father's and the mother's names. It is a sense of pride
in where you came from, with the male usually dominant, but the
female far from jettisoned.

adg23@columbia.edu

This has been a constant source of contention between me and my significant
other. As we are in our very early 20s and not considering
marriage for quite a while, it was very silly that we almost
broke up over the fact that I did not want to give up my last
name. He comes from a Cuban-Argentinian/Venezuelan family while I
come from a Mexican one. The women always took the man's last name
in his family, so he expected the same. He also told me that
since he had a rather odd last name, and it had taken him a while
to accept and like it, it would be a symbol of love for his wife to
accept it as well. My final solution, that he doesn't quite agree
with (but it's a pretty moot point at this time anyway) is this:
My last name is Mexican/Spanish. I love it. It means "heron." SO
in preserving my last name (there are no male cousins, so it is bound to
become extinguished in this country, in my family) I plan to use the
Spanish/Mexican manner of patronymic assumption. It will be my last name,
a "de" then his last name. In practicing it, it sounds very
elegant. I think it's a good compromise, plus it will look
very cool on my law office door.

I will not take my spouse's name. I feel very comfortable with the name I've used for 29 years, and I see no reason to alter my identity because of antiquated tradition. I do think that if a person wants to follow tradition, that's ok too - I just rebel against the expectation and assumption that I will change my name because I am the woman in the relationship.

No. I was married this past March and did not change my name because I feel that it is an antiquated custom along with someone (usually male) "giving" one away. All of this implies ownership.

I'm getting married in a year and definitely keeping my name. I'm not too bothered about rejecting this particular tradition while accepting the tradition of marriage as a whole. I mean, I'm forgoing a lot of other wedding traditions: my dad's not forking over a dowry, my mother won't hang out our sheets the morning after so the neighbors can be sure that there's blood on them, yadda yadda yadda. The meaning of marriage has changed over the years, so have many of the traditions surrounding it.

But whatever, my reasons for not changing my name aren't particularly "feminist" -- I'm not trying to avoid taking on a man's name. I'm known professionally as my current name and I am way lazy. I agree, you're you no matter what name you have. And I also think you're just as comitted no matter what your name is. So I don't see the point of my going to all the trouble of changing my name, getting used to a new one, etc. But that's just me - if changing, hyphenating, blending, or whatever makes you happy and comfortable, you should do it. And if anyone gives you grief about it, tell them to blow you.

Regarding what Kandi and Gary said down below. It's all
about choice. If a woman wants to take her husband's
name, whatever her reason(s), it's her choice. If she
doesn't want to take his name, whatever her reason(s),
it still her choice. That decision could be influenced
by social or familial tradition, personal beliefs, etc.,
but as long as the woman is okay with it, fine. If a
man chooses to take his wife's name, that's fine by
me too. I've even heard of marriages where couples
create new names by combining parts of their individual
ones. As long as the couple's happy, why bother getting
upset about it.


Myself, I'd keep my name. If I were engaged to someone
with problems with that, I'd give pause to marrying that
person because we'd likely have other incompatibilities.
I don't plan to have kids, and continuance of the line
and all that other stuff was never important to me.

As for accepting a tradition whole or not at all, just
because something has been done a certain way doesn't
mean all people have to do it the same way or do it
at all.

Gary, if feminist contradictions only amuse you for minutes, then why the hell are you still here - several months on BITCH board and now here. It must be bad on your heart to be filed with so much antagonism.

Gary is mistaken -- the name with which we are born, with which we've accomplished so much is worth keeping and there is no contradiction inherent in that. Besides, knee jerk feminist bashers are just as contradictory as knee jerk feminists.

No, and I tend to get very"holier than thou" about the whole issue, sometimes. Basically the reason that I'll keep my name is that I like it, I'm proud of all I've accomplished with my name and all that I will accomplish whether I ever marry or not. I see no need to subvert the woman who has done so much to the name of a man who will have yet to prove himself!!

If I love the guy enough to marry him, I might as well take his name. Besides, I never really thought my name sounded right together. It might do me good to have a change in my name.

I would probably not take my spouse's name, as I, with the name I have now, have done things I'm proud of. Amelia (insert guy's name here) doesn't even exist, it sort of signifies "the beginning of a new life" with a new name. Sorry, I hope by the time I marry (if I do), I'll have a life outside of my marriage. Keeping my name is like keeping me.

Of course not. What I really wonder is why pretty much everyon gives their kids their fathers' names; it's as if patriarchy only bothers them in the metaphorical sense. I do the work, I get the credit.

I would take his name because it is another way of showing your devotion to him. Also it's not the end of the world. Besides, what's so important about a last name?

ditto to what misti says

Sure, if it doesn't sound stupid

Kandi: right on!!! one hundred percent dead on accurate! just 'cause you marry someone and take their name doesn't mean you lose your identity. but as we all know feminists are quite known for their great leaps of logic when it comes to these matters. "if i take my husband's name i'm no longer me oh my!" "but if i keep my father's name i'm a strong, self-affirmed WOMAN!" makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

but if you don't get too caught up in it, feminists are just entertaining as hell to watch and listen to. i like to play "count the contradictions"......try it on any "feminist." you'll be amused for hours...well, ok....minutes....they do get quite tiring after a while.

Of course I would! Even if you marry some one IT DOES
NOT MEAN YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN PERSON!!!!!! I think that
if you love someone it can be considered just another way
to show it. I love my boy friend and if we ever get
married I will be glad to take his name.

I had an unusual first and middle name, so when I married, I changed the spelling of my first name, kept my birth name, and took my husband's last name. I had spent my life explaining my unusual first and middle names. I received mail addressed to "Mr." I saw it as a chance to redefine myself. I use all three names and I am quite pleased with my name. I sign my checks and credit slips with three names. My students call me "Professor," so I have avoided the Mrs. or Ms. debate. My husband had offered to add my name to his and if we decided to have children (another topic, another letter) we will give them both names.

I am married and I did not take my husband's name. For several reasons. I am attached to my whole name, I am a feminist who knows that last names are supposed to represent who "owns" you-back when women were possessions. Though I started out with my dad's name (as if he owned me) I did not see a need to transfer that ownership to my husband, as I am my own boss. Also I am lazy and didn't feel like changing all my ID, I have a degree in my name. I told my husband that he was more than welcome to change his last name, if he wanted us to have the same last name.
I received some flack about it. The marriage commisioner who married us told me my children would be confused and screwed up, an aunt gasped when we were announced, and I had to ask some friends to use my own name. I'm more relaxed about it now. But glad I didn't change my name.

this whole debate is really curious. if you're going to go ahead and get married you are already accepting one tradition....so why is accepting another tradition (i.e., taking the man's name) such a big deal?

And for those feminists who think they are making a statement by not taking the man's name....umm....so you'd rather keep your father's name and not your husband's??? No matter how you look at it, you have a man's last name.

Here's my solution, if you decide to get married and accept the whole marriage tradition by doing so, then take his last name. No hyphenations, just accept the tradition completely. But if you have a problem accepting the name, then don't get married...just have a long term monogamous relationship. The relationship, if it's truly a loving/committed one, is no less valid without the "ceremony."

But then when you have children you're back to square one: who's name do they take?

Maybe it's just best to stick with tradition. Seems a helluva lot simpler!

this whole debate is really curious. if you're going to go ahead and get married you are already accepting one tradition....so why is accepting another tradition (i.e., taking the man's name) such a big deal?

And for those feminists who think they are making a statement by not taking the man's name....umm....so you'd rather keep your father's name and not your husband's??? No matter how you look at it, you have a man's last name.

Here's my solution, if you decide to get married and accept the whole marriage tradition by doing so, then take his last name. No hyphenations, just accept the tradition completely. But if you have a problem accepting the name, then don't get married...just have a long term monogamous relationship. The relationship, if it's truly a loving/committed one, is no less valid without the "ceremony."

But then when you have children you're back to square one: who's name do they take?

Maybe it's just best to stick with tradition. Seems a helluva lot simpler!

I took my first husband's name, but only after much protest - I added his last name to my last name. We were both in the military, and my paychecks were guaranteed to get lost for a month or so if I totally let go of my former surname. I had no desire to give up my name anyway...Now, I am facing the very real prospect of marrying again, this time I WILL take his surname as my own. Not because he expects me to, but because I want to be identified as his wife and lover and best friend thru name, he lives in a smallish town in Germany, and I would be helping him run the family business. Yes, his surname suits me just fine!

Karen: I like your idea...one of the problems with hyphenated last names and keeping your own name is the kids. If the guy changes his name, that's cool. Now lets try to find some men to agree to this...

No, I think he should take my name. Then, kids don't have to deal with multiple hypenated names or having siblings with different names from themselves or their parents. Men have been able to keep their names for years and years. Now, it's time for a switch.

Whooops....how on earth did I end up posting three times? I guess we'll never know...sorry!

Rhonda: Now I see where you were coming from on that world wide thing...there are countries where women have it real bad, I mean you hear about female circumcision *sp?* and stuff like that occasionally, and that is awful. Feminists should be crusading against that, not accusing innocent men on college campuses of rape (all men are rapists, because they are potential rapists...did you know that?)

I'm glad you're checking that book out...I was made to read it by my dad (he always has books he wants me to read and PBS shows for me to watch...I don't need school I get enough of an education at home!) It really did open my eyes to what's going on.

Rhonda: Now I see where you were coming from on that world wide thing...there are countries where women have it real bad, I mean you hear about female circumcision *sp?* and stuff like that occasionally, and that is awful. Feminists should be crusading against that, not accusing innocent men on college campuses of rape (all men are rapists, because they are potential rapists...did you know that?)

I'm glad you're checking that book out...I was made to read it by my dad (he always has books he wants me to read and PBS shows for me to watch...I don't need school I get enough of an education at home!) It really did open my eyes to what's going on.

Rhonda: Now I see where you were coming from on that world wide thing...there are countries where women have it real bad, I mean you hear about female circumcision *sp?* and stuff like that occasionally, and that is awful. Feminists should be crusading against that, not accusing innocent men on college campuses of rape (all men are rapists, because they are potential rapists...did you know that?)

I'm glad you're checking that book out...I was made to read it by my dad (he always has books he wants me to read and PBS shows for me to watch...I don't need school I get enough of an education at home!) It really did open my eyes to what's going on.

oops, sorry about the double-post. Stupid internet proxy server...

Christina, Please accept my sincere apology for misstating myself such that you felt I was insulting your intelligence or that I was accusing you of being narrow-minded.

I was merely wondering whether perhaps you were from a different country (or even from a region within the states) where things aren't nearly so easy for women. The parenthetical insert about how easy it is to forget that the Internet spans the globe referred to myself--for all I knew, you could have been writing from ...oh, what's that country where girls were forbidden to go to school? Afghanistan?-- and that would have provided you a unique perspective on the whole question of feminism.

Thanks for the book reference. I'll check it out.

Christina, Please accept my sincere apology for misstating myself such that you felt I was insulting your intelligence or that I was accusing you of being narrow-minded.

I was merely wondering whether perhaps you were from a different country (or even from a region within the states) where things aren't nearly so easy for women. The parenthetical insert about how easy it is to forget that the Internet spans the globe referred to myself--for all I knew, you could have been writing from ...oh, what's that country where girls were forbidden to go to school? Afghanistan?-- and that would have provided you a unique perspective on the whole question of feminism.

Thanks for the book reference. I'll check it out.

oops, I'm the last annony. sorry

I'm just curious: Why change the name? If it's a romantic or practical issue, why not flip a coin and see how changes their name? Why is it necessarily women who change their names? Personally, I woudln't change my name because I like my name and I don't see a reason to change it. I wouldn't want him to change his. I don't like the idea, for myself. I don't like that whole "now we are one" thing that the name change represents. I want to maintain my identity and my own space. But that's just me; I wouldn't even want to share a room, so maybe I'm just a freak. BUT...the historical roots of women changing their names is that when a woman got married, she was legally and in the popular imagination the property of her husband. Really. I don't really like that kind of historical baggage, but of course you can do whatever you want and have it mean something to you and that's all that really matters.
But back to my first question, if anyone cares to answer: Why change it? I'm just curious about people's individual reasons/

Rhonda: First of all I am from the states, and I certainly know that the Web is World Wide...I have netfriends from Canada, Australia, and even Malta for Pete's sake! That's pretty damn insulting to my intelligence I think to insinuate that because I'm from the states I am narrow minded. Second: Have you read "Who Stole Feminism?" That book illustrates what feminsim was and has become...if being a feminist means to want equality than I definately am one...unfortunately it's not that way anymore.
Mur: I know what you mean, it is hard to win in this situation. That's why I think I'm gonna go with using Ms., and when I get married I'll change my last name. The exception for me is if I don't get married right out of college and have established myself in my career and keeping my own name would be important.

Christina, where are you from (are you writing from the US or from elsewhere? it's so easy for those of us in the States to forget that the Web is indeed World-wide), that being a feminist could result in having it "used against you?" What would/could they do to you?

I have heard that there is a nasty backlash going on these days against the word "feminist," that it implies that the bearer of the label is a man-hater who would rather be outrageous for the sake of proving a point than be willing to get along with everyone, even in they happened to be male. I don't think that's necessarily true, any more than "Christian" means you are a radical right fundamentalist, or that "Irish" means that you are a flame-thrower-carrying member of the IRA (not that I believe that all IRA members carry flamethrowers or set bombs... see how easy it is for stereotypes to creep in?). Seems to me that being a feminist means that you're in favor of women having equal rights along with men, plain and simple.

Christina - and if you take his name you can be sterotyped as a traditional subservient woman. You can't win. That's why I'm keeping my name, no hyphen, no name change.

Mur: That's your own personal choice whether or not you are a feminist, but I'm saying by doing the hyphenating thing it's like stereotyping yourself as one. You're not just believing in equal rights, you're being stereotyped with all the political viewpoints that go along with it and people could use it against you.

I'm undecided. I want to either put a hypen between my husbands name and mine, or keep my own. Using the hypen I think will keep my older identity and my new one. Though I'm not sure if I want a different identity. I'm proud of who I am and I'm not sure if I would feel comfortable changing my name. That would be changing myself.

ok...divorce is good

Christina: I am proud to be a feminist, and I think part of that pride results from not caring what other people think - negative or posittive - when I say that.
I understand that some people think it is a negative word, but what do you say? "I'm not a feminist but I believe in equal rights?" That sounds a bit like you're trying to please youself and the people who would be offended by saying you're a feminist. I just don't see anything wrong with it and I am certainly not ashamed of it. We still have a long way to go.

I married in 1987. I never wanted to take my husband's
name. Instead, we exchanged names: he took my last name
as my middle name, and I took his last name as my middle
name. So I became Diane Jewell Donaldson, and he became
Andrew Donaldson Jewell. Ten years later, we're getting
divorced, but I don't think I'll change back. He was an
important part of my life and I like to remember that.

I like the idea of exchanging names, because it seems to
be more equal. Why should women be the only ones to change?

I did marry and I had my husband change his name to mine.
I was determined not to fall into that social trap of
female submissive. When he was my boyfriend in graduate school
he was kind of your typical macho man. He's a lot different now.

Kate

lemoande100@hotmail.com

I'd take his name and I'd also keep mine--that way you're not completely losing your identity--plus I like how it sounds :)

its funny, my boyfriend and i were just talking abou tthis this weekend. I am the youngest girl in the family, and the last one to have our family name...if I change mine when/if I get married, the name dies w/me, so no, I don't think I will change my name. My boyfriend is incredibly supportive of this, which is great. I do think do think that it creates problems when the kids are born, but nothing that can't be overcome...it just gets confusing to a child to have to explain the different last names (and many teachers, etc are not overly supportive of the "non-traditional" approach either).

on another tip though, my cousin and her husban (second marriages for both) simply MADE UP a new last night, so neither got to keep their "maiden" name, and both had to go through the hassle of getting new id/registartion etc. in the new name.

what about HIM taking YOUR name???is that possible???hmm.....

if i love him, i want to be proud of who i love, and taking his name is part of that

one thing is for sure...i WANT to ake his name. my first name is kristin, and my last name starts with a "k" so people always ask me what my middle name is...just to make sure my initials aren't KKK. it's junior high humor, i guess. but it is anoying and stupid
-kAk

No, I won't change my name when I get married. My mother
didn't either when she got married, and that was twenty five
years ago! She is a strong, independant, intelligent woman
who is PROUD of her name simply because it's her name and
nobody else's, it identifies her as a individual person, not
as Mrs. So and so.

My best friend is getting married in a few
short months and we had talked for years about keeping our own
names when we married the men of our dreams. Guess what?
She's taking his name, and when she told me, I reacted quite
differently than I thought I would. I was hurt and furious
with her. The promise we had made when we were 16 seemed
trivial to her and I had a difficult time telling her my
great disapointment in her decision. I'll eventually get over
it but I know for myself, my name is my name until I die.

Mur: There's nothing wrong with being a feminist the way it used to be when women were fighting for the right to vote, the right to work, and the right to be equal with men. Now it's being taken to a whole other level, and to be a feminist, you must be liberal and hate men, and if you're a lesbian, even better! (There's nothing wrong with being lesbian if you're born that way, but to live that lifestyle just to make a statement is going way too far.) I actually know many women who resent the title of "feminist" because it has such a negative conotation.

No! I would not take a guy's name. Why lose part of your identity? Your name is part of that.

No! I would not take a guy's name. Why lose part of your identity? Your name is part of that.

Sure, chicks these days should take their husbands last name! Why not?

When I was younger, my divorced parents had a long, bitter court battle, with deeply hurt feelings afterward on all sides. After I went off to college, I looked into dropping my (father's) last name altogether and go by my first and middle names--it seemed like the ultimate statement I could make about the family politics. Alas, the rule in that city was that you had to retain a lawyer and pay court costs. Too much money to a starving student.

When I got married recently (by which time many of the rifts in the family had healed and everyone got along at the reception...thank G-d!), I took my partner's name, partly because I'd lost any real positive feelings about my (father's) last name. But the main purpose was a willful expression of optimism--with a history like mine, it's hard not to think of marriage without simultaneously thinking of divorce. And I want to break myself of that habit.

I also have a female friend who took her husband's name, and later on decided she felt like she lost something by doing it and changed her name back. And I have a male friend who took his wife's name when they married, for much the same reasons as mine..

It dosnt really matter in the long run, i think. You are 'owned' nominally by a male anyway, whether its your father or your husband. All names are male-derived, and there is just no escaping it, unless you and your husband choose an entirely different name at your wedding. But then that gets confusing.....

to hypen-ate
sounds real great!

I dont want to. I guess that's why we are still just living
together. I offered to let him have my name...didnt like that.
I also offered to maybe hyphenate!! He hated that. You just
cant please a man. My prob is though, he hates his dad, he
hates his name...is it just to make it better on him for someone
else to have to carry on the name he hates??? I'm confused.

THANK YOU, pinky!!

and ... gooooodness ... what name will the children have if both grrls have different last names? most of our names are spun out of the patriarchy anyways.

whAT IF your a lesbian. this magazine is waaay straight.
get a life - - - get a girl!

Who cares? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet...

"Also, do you want to be stereotyped as a bra burning feminist just by
your NAME???" Christina, what's wrong with being a feminist? It used to be a
tradition to keep slaves and sell wives. Too bad those traditions have been "thrown out the window."
I've established my life as me, and I will remain me when I get married. The kids might have my name, they might have his name. we might not have kids (GASP - another tradition gone!).
When i was growing up, my half sister had a different last name than I did, and that was no problem with me. Hell, if you have daughters and name them for your husband, they might end up taking their husbands names and THEN their names will be different! Everyone gets their own choice, and I don't think many women are worried about being called a feminist.

I will add my husbands name to mine. Since there are only
girls in my family, my last name would end with me. It
makes me sad, because it represents so many generations,
stories, bonds and adventures. Plus, this way it feels more
like a union. We still haven't decided what name or names
to use for our children.

I kept my name when we got married 10 years ago -- much to the disappointment of my traditionalist family, not his. Now, with a little hindsight, I'm glad I did. It hasn't been confusing, as some predicted. In social settings, a couple is clearly a couple no matter what names they go by. As for children, there's no confusion at all. Afterall, they haven't yet been indoctrinated into the concept that both parents must have the same name. In my daughter's kindergarten class, where both my husband and I volunteer, the children have no trouble with the different names. Only one child questioned it, and I was glad to have the chance to open her mind up to the idea that not everyone does everything the same way. It's a good lesson for kids.

I think I would take my husbands name, I mean so many traditions have been thrown out the window (I like women in the workplace and all, but I also like guys holding doors open for me. It's nice to keep one tradition alive. Also, not changing your name causes so much confusion if you don't. What do you name your kids? What does he do with his name? Also, do you want to be stereotyped as a bra burning feminist just by your NAME???

well it doesn't bother me too much but i have 2 brothers so its not like the family name will be lost if i do, when the time comes i'll know! right now i'm happy being me!

I guess it's all about a personal choice. If and when the time comes for me to tie the knot, I'd like to keep my own name.
Although we are maried, we are two seperate unique people.
On top of that, there are no male children in the family. I'd like to keep my families name alive for one more generation.

never in a million years!