Bulletin Board Posts

Copyright 1995 Transgender Forum

Early October 1995

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Topics: Do you consider that you break any rules or laws or conventions of gender? If so, which ones? How do you do that?
Should Crossdressers Use The Ladies Room?


There are no laws or convention of gender, just social norms, set by the "normal people"! Just by living I break these norms, I'm a transexual and don't fit in those norms, period!

2/.I was raised Roman Catholic, I still feel a great deal of fear when going out, or even just going into a store to buy clothing.

3/.To be honest I feel like I have been living without gender since I have come out to myself with my transexuality and have taken and continue to take measures to become who and what I feel I am. I feel that until the day I have the SRS, that I have no gender!

I do not feel like a woman trapped in a male's body, but like a woman who has been denied her femininity, and raised as a boy child, and on the odd time when I would do things of a feminine nature, I would quickly be reprimanded for so doing! I feel that my sexual identity has nothing to do with what is between my legs and everthing to do with what is between my ears,and in my heart.

pomalley@mustang.uwo.ca


Greetings my friends! Underlying the public bathroom issue is the confusion between gender and genital, privacy and privilege. Accepting that a passable crossdresser should use the room designated for their apparent image, let us not forget to respect the fears of others by not overstaying our welcome or playing by the rules.

I am much more afraid of being read using public transportation than using the powder room for some reason. And what I've discovered is that people can read fear better than they can read gender. Therefore, confront fear and avoid being afraid. I am not afraid of the ladies' room and I am successful in passing within its confines. Walk the walk, but watch your step.

Love, Christy


I have enjoyed breaking the rules of gender for quite some time now. I regularly go shopping while wearing women's jeans, Keds, and a woman's blouse. I have often tried other womens clothes on in the stores and have had a lot of fun talking to the sales girls. Some are a little cool towards the idea, but I have also found many that are not

Women's clothes tends to be a great icebreaker (it takes them 3-5 minutes before they realize I am wearing girl things). If you have not tried it do so, it's a lot of fun!

Brenda


Yes...I've violated gender laws freely since coming to terms with my transgendered state. I always used to crossdress, but now I keep my arms and legs shaved and my brows plucked. I go out freely in misses' jeans and tops and women's tennis shoes. I use lotions and perfume, pink nail polish and sometimes a little makeup. I've allowed my mannerisms to become more feminine too.

Email:
dixon1@ix.netcom.com


Do I break gender rules? Over the past few years I've become rather angrogenous.

Even as a male I have long nails and hair. I sometimes get comments refering to the fact that men shouldn't have long nails and hair. When people are bold enough to ask WHY I wear my nails and hair like a woman I simply say either "I like it" or "Fot the same reason she does." (pointing to any passing woman) "Because I think it looks nice." Most of my male clothes were actually purchased in the womens department too so I guess thats another convention I break.

Fear ?!? I'm always afraid. I fear lose of job and lose of my friends and family. I fear some uncivilized people will feel the need to impose his or her values on me with brute force. But I find that people are becoming at least a little more tolerant of TG people. Especially if they aren't quite sure if you are TG or, as a freind of mine that doesn't know said "Just a little odd".

Do I live without gender? No. It seems I am often very concious of my gender, either the gender the world sees or the one I was born with.

Email: Jennifer


OK, here's an answer to question 3. I think that most of my life or anybody else'e life is lived basically genderless. For most activities, it doesn't matter if i am a guy or a girl. Just look around you to see how many people of the other sex are doing the same activity as you at any particular time. However, what gender you are does subtly reflect on evrything you do. So, although I'm not necessarily doing something feminine, I'm doing it in a feminine way.

What am I getting at? Basically, what I am trying to say is that most of my life isn't about gender issues, it's about having fun and being happy, just like any other person. So in a sense, I could be said to be living without gender most of my life. Having said all of the above, I suspect the question was actually asking for info about living in the middle ground. For me, no I don't do that.

newge92@evans.ee.adfa.oz.au


My name is Susan and I find it totally frustrating to be stuck in a mans body. I weigh 225lbs and am 6' tall with an 18" neck. I am married, two children, straight, and guess I would be a lesbian if I were born a woman. I hate being a man. I dream each and every day and night about being a woman. Like most of you I have thrown my clothes away several times. Due to this BB and one other it is time to come out of the closet. I feel us girls have it much harder than being gay, as this is accepted in large cities. We of course are not accepted by the hetrosexual community or the gay community. I know, I bartended in a gay bar and owned a gay rest. I am not gay! The only time cross dressing was accepted was at holloween.

Fortunately for me my wife is completely understanding and helps buy my things, as I am embarrassed. I have just learned my 17 year old son, straight with girl friend has the same problem, and has for years; as have I. I found out one day while putting some of his clothes away. So I came clean with him, and he with me. I have gone out in public once during the day, and yes used the ladies room. This was with a previous wife. She also was some what understanding. I just turned 40 and though my faith does not allow me to become a TS, I will be a CD and attempt to become a TV. I would appreciate any E-MAILS in regards to shops, my hair is long enough on it's own, it's the voice, beard, face, hands and weight as I am sure you all know.

I am quite Naive to this and how to go about the change. I lost my oldest son to cancer, do I tell my younger son 14 so I can be myself at home? I do not wish to hurt anyone, I just want to be me!!!! I have heard some of you say it is not black and white but gray. I guess this is true, I love to ride my Harley and still at times feel Macho, but 90% of the time I am a female.

I have only 2 male friends as I usually get along with females much better as I am sure you all know from experience. I am faithful to my wife and have no desire for sex, just friendship with girls like me. A show, ice tea and a book, shopping and talking about how and why we are where we are and what can be done. So thanks for listening and I hope each of you ladies find happiness.

Love
Susan


My greatest fear is that I will never muster to courage to come out and enjoy my true feminine nature, that I will remain bottled up as I grow old in this masculine shell. I am beginning to fear this far more than I do sharing this side of me with my wife and daughter.

My greatest hope is that by reading the experiences of those sisters who have leaped accross the gender line in the sand, I can also. accross the gender line in the sand, I can also.

Heather


Help! Roommate wanted! Crystal Brooks, attending Southern Comfort Sept 27-Oct 1. Are you or do you know of anyone willing to share a double occupancy room at the Holiday Inn? Non-smoker interested in roommate who would not smoke in room. Platonic friendship only. Comfortable rooming with member of any sex--again, platonic. I will cross-live the entire trip.

Profession: under-paid computer programmer/analyst, living in North Dakota (have lived in Mpls/St Paul). No support group other than therapist and a couple very select friends. With artistic/subtle use of makeup, I seem to pass (unless someone makes a close inspection)--I don't seem to cause much of a stir or receive harsh stares. When shopping, I've had a couple gals flatter me by saying they were jealous (I think of my fake figure--no HRT at this point). I tell them not to be.

In addition to my desire to find a roommate to defray costs, I would also enjoy some company Sunday/Monday morning after SC. If you know of anyone also planning to make a little longer vacation, I'd really appreciate you putting them in touch with me.

Crystal Brooks


Does anyone know of a Canadian doctor who uses a laser to modify the male voice? I would appreciate any information that anyone has, as this sounds less drastic than other surgical techniques.

Heather Jean Lamborn


Hi everybody! I'm going to be caretaking a Bed and Breakfast in Maui from September until mid November. I thought it would be a lot of fun to invite TVs, CDs and TSs to come to Maui for a little R and R. My intention is to create a safe, private retreat for my sisters to freely express themselves as the mood strikes them. If you are interested, please E-mail me for more details.

Aloha,
Alazan


No. While Physical gender is a biological reality, psychological and behavioral gender are entirely arbitrary.


Hello Everyone:

I am still trying to contact Tri-Ess in Houston. If anyone can help me, please send me a message (this is not a personal ad)! I will only have my EMail for a little while longer.

Email:
Amanda


In both cases, for a true CD the answer is yes. Using the room of the birth gender would create quite a stir. Speaking for myself, I "am" a woman when I use the women's room. I have no interest at that time in being a voyeur, only in taking care of my needs.

Diane


Please, no more bathroom questions!

We as a community not only need to get out of the closet, we need to get out of the bathroom! Our society makes too much of an issue out of a basic human function. Just because our society is still in the third grade regarding their thinking on this issue doesnít mean we have to be.

I'm an openly TS woman who still gets these questions occasionally. I have quit answering them, stating it is my policy not to answer such a personal question that they wouldnít dare ask any "normal" person. These questions, even though they may be sincere, demean transgendered people. I encourage all transgendered people, including spokespersons appearing in panels and on talk shows, to answer similar questions the same way. Letís show society how mature we are.

Sincerely,
Tammy Coleman Of course we should use the ladies room. The problem I see is how do you tell if someone is a crossdresser or a "dirty old man" wearing a wig to get a cheap thrill? You can't go by how they look. And if you go by how they act it may be to late.

I'm reminded of the story of the two female body builders that got arrested and examined by a doctor when they tried to use the ladies room. I'm to terrified to use the ladies room myself. I make sure I "go" before I leave and get back before I have to use the facilities ;-) And shame on whoever would use the ladies room and actually stand up in the stall. I sit down at home even if I'm not dressed. Just a force of habit now.

Jennifer


Say,it,s not going to take six lines to SAY A RESOUNDING YES.

Amanda


Why not? If you need to go and you are all dressed up I sure won't use the mens room.

I wish to thank you for your forum it has been a big hep to me . I have read the posting on your forum and what a help it has been to me . My life of crossdressing has so much in common with what I read . I thought I was one of only a very few . Its good to know I have so many sister out there . My spouse no longer supports my crossdressing so I don't have many chances and I do miss not be able to crossdress as much as I would like. I am 61 so for some of young sisters enjoy, it part of your life .We are very lucky to be able to enjoy our female side .

Love paula


A person presenting as a man goes to the men's room. A person presenting as a woman goes to the women's room. I'm living in a dorm at college and going fulltime next year. If I am forced to trek onto a floor that I'm not allowed onto every time I go to the bathroom, it's going to be a larger hassle for those around me than it will be for me.


Of course we should use the ladies room. It would be 100 times more disruptive to use the mens room. Also, could someone help me with the voice problem? It has me hiding in corners and avoiding other people like the plague.

One more thing. I urge you all to avoid Michael Salem's Boutique. I Have been ripped off before but this takes first prize. They have very poor quality merchandise at very high prices. Oh well, live and learn.

Michelle


Hi, all!

I have a 5 year old son in my full custody, and can't primp up while he's home. That's a drag, but I can deal with that because he is THE LIGHT of my life! Now, for my problem. I would dress more when he wasn't home, if I weren't afraid of her finding out and trying to take him from me. She knew I dressed while we were married, and in fact, she bought many of my clothes for me. She thought it was neat.

The judge asked her if it were in the best interest of the child for him to stay with me and she said yes, and at that time she knew I still dressed, so either she didn't think of it, or it didn't bother her. Should I ask her if it would bother her now? Or should I just tell her I still do? Any ideas, girls? Here are my email addresses for those of you who are honest and sincere, and we all are in here, aren't we, girls?

Simpsond@dmec1.dmsc.k12.ar.us
74647.1142@compuserve.com
I just recently found the TGF and am very glad I did!
Courtney


Hi! I just want to say if you use the Ladies room you should always sit on the toliet, don't stand up to pee.

I always check out the feet of the stall next to me for shoes styles. Most women do! So remember that the next time someone gets upset when your are in the powder room. Do your business and noone will be the wiser and all will be right with the world of femmine hygiene!

Donna(-;


To Amanda of Houston, If your E-mail is still in effect, please contact me. If I can't help you locate either of the two clubs in operation here, I can offer you or you and your wife my friendship. Am deep in the closet myself, but looking for friendship from another crossdresser in a safe descreet setting.

Joan


You have created a great forum here, Cindy. I would really like to see some postings from SOs out there on a couple of very important topics:
    1)What unconscious things do we CDs do that drive you right up the wall??
    2)What hints can you provide us who have no real idea of what being a woman is like one I read: not reaching across body(boobs get in the way)??

In my case, Ive been living in a man's world for 55 years. Help me and others just like me.

Hugs,
Suzi


I have found out about myself only I joined the net. And I have to thank the net for it. I have made few friends through the net. Also I am much free because I have let a deep feeling hidden out. I do agree that I we should be able to use the related room depending on what we are dressed up as we realy do feel the gender we are in. So drop a line and we shall talk. Send you email address please.

Madhu


During my application interview yesterday with the pres. Alpha chapter, Tri-Ess this subject came up in our conversation. I was concerned about this as I would like get out more and go more places dressed. Her advice was to scope out the area you wish to go in advance and plan which bathrooms at which locations you could use. Also ask management for their policy in public places. Look for single user restrooms or unisex restrooms.

To some or maybe most of "us" this makes sense. To me, this is appalling!!! Should we risk 100% probability of embarrassament by using the restroom assigned to our birth gender while dressed or something much less in a restroom befitting our image. Would you ask management in advance restroom policy if you come back en femme??!! If I look the part I play the part 100% or not at all, no questions asked.

Thank you, Kelly (rebel en femme)

kstiles@ix.netcom.com


Hugs, all! (I need them!) Being alone, not being accepted, no where to live, and no one to turn to! I've past the point of no return, and don't wish to... I'm dragging out making the switch to RLT -- why? I just started an Internet Provider Service -- why? I partnered -- why? I want to move and start MY life! How do other TS's do it? I'm resolved enough to know my married life will be over, she's said so..

I also know, and have known, that it's my time!

kjm@terra.com


I am new and considering putting on my makeup in the men's room seems far too nerve wracking and am trying to think of an alternate that isn't too conspicuious. For what it's worth.

Cindy Lacy


I love this page.Thank you Cindy for giving "girls"like us a place to visit. I'm a 47 yr.closet crossdresser. I've told my wife and she says I'm on the same level as a child molester and says if I bring it up again, she's gone. I'm a member of Illusions in Calgary and the people there are great.Keep those letters coming in. I can relate.

Janine


I agree strongly with your statements on crossdressers using the women's room. Going to all the trouble of making yourself passable and then walking into the men's room is absurd. As far as I'm concernd, when I crossdress I am manifesting my femine side, and, physiology aside, I am a woman. I do not gawk or stare, I just go about my business like any other woman would.

Conversely, I have been to concerts and bars where the women's room line was so long that some women went to the mens room to relieve themselves. Nobody seemed to mind that a woman would go to a men's room. And the women themselves didn't seem to give a damn what we would think. Discrimination of a sort? What do you think.

Alazan


For my $.02, I agree that going into the men's room crossdressed is MUCH more disruptive than going into the ladie's room. I know, I did it once to see the reactions.

As for the legality, check the laws where you are before making the excursion. In California, where I live and practice law, there is nothing to prohibit using the ladies room. The only law on the subject in the state statutes prohibits loitering about public restrooms for lewd or lascivious purposes, or to annoy or offend others. In other words, you need to intend to do these things, and be doing something toward that end. Just using the restroom is perfectly legal. I understand San Diego has a local law prohibiting men from using city owned ladie's rooms, but I don't know that for sure. Still, that leaves privately owned restrooms, such as in restaurants, available.

The bottom line, is to be discreet and use the restroom for its intended purpose.

Carolyn


I am a paramedic and active in our local volunteer fire department in a small community. I don't think that people would understand if I were outted since the fire department field is kinda "macho." The EMS field is a lot more tolerant.

I also worry about pushing my wife over the edge about my cross-dressing.

Hugs to all,

Christy


From Stella:

I agree with Jennifer. I felt the same way several times. Threw away some nice things, only to regret it later. It comes down to this in the long run. Its not just about going out, and the excitement you used to feel when you did. It's the added dimension of freedom, to what is a very constrained, sterotyped male life. You can be 'Male' or 'Female', do what men or women do, be masculine or feminine.

I don't think you will be happy, for long, trying to stay within the bounds of one gender identity. It is acceptable for women to personify a man or women. They can put on a dress or a pair of pants, wear a tie or lacy blouse. Although it was not always this way, most women take that freedom for granted.


Brenda from Seattle replies to Anni:

I also keep looking for a #crossdressers channel on IRC and never find one: it is apparent that one of us will have to start one. Maybe I will do just that

My worst fear: losing connection with my transgender self as I get older. Age should not be a stumbling block to self-expression. To hell with conformity!


Hiya,

My worst fear about being a transvestite is being outted, not to my wife (she already knows) but to the rest of my family, friends and above all, colleagues at work. I guess as with all fears it is the unknown that causes the problem - I just don't know how people will react.

My wife took several years to accept it (although I think she still secretly hopes 'it' will go away). I can't help thinking that if someone who loves me as much as she does had such a problem then how will anyone else understand. Then again, other people wouldn't feel so threatened by it - who knows. Anyway, nice talking to you all,

Debbie


I'm retired military--my lover is pre-op TS -- I am "defrocked" TV. My biggest fear is that military will take action against me and I will lose pension. I also fear that my present place of employment, being very straight laced and homophobic, will terminated my employment. About 18 months ago, local newspaper did a big feature article on my lover--which outed me to many folks, including my children. It was a revealing situation. It was very comfortable, not having to keep a secret. While active as TV, I loved my clothes and the makeup. However, as I have aged, I cannot do the CD the justice it deserves. I miss the dresses, but not the makeup.

Love to all.
Elaine Quinn.


Just a short note to say where is everybody on IRC! I keep looking for the #crossdress channel and can never find anyone to talk with! Come on ladies love to chat in real time

My worst fear... Dealing with peoples reactions.... When you are just being yourself

Anni


Well I just cant stand it! Every time I Dress in my favorite lingerie under my suit I get a very over whelming desire to get frisky. I have been reading a lot of gender stuff but no one talks about being plain excited about being dressed. I dont really want to out grow this feeling I like it ! Any one else want to share their thoughts on this. Some times it makes me feel dangerous and leads to taking risks. Well girls what do you have to say?

Melissa2b1@aol.com


My worst fear as a Transgender is being alone. I could not live without the support I get from being able to meet with my sisters in clubs, with E-Mail, and on the Web in bulletin boards like this.

Marianne Rivers


First post folks, and I know the topics at hand, but since it is the summer, and we all may have been to a wedding, so I am wondering, are there others out there that enjoy bridesmaid and bridal fashions as much as I do?, I have huge collection, and would like to hear from others.


The first person to learn of my alter ego was my wife. At the time, we had just started dating. She was telling a good friend of hers about the great guy she just started dating (me, of course). This friend of hers just happened to work at the clothing store where I made most of my purchases. Her friend recognized my name and my wife put two and two together and got TV (must be that new math).

We've been through some tough times, but she basically supports me. She has always been fascinated by it, but also has a lot of fears too. I guess they are the typical fears; am I gay or do I want a sex change. We've been trying to contact Tri-Ess here in Houston. I have left our phone number on the answering machine, but no one ever returns our calls. If someone can be of assistance, please respond to this BBS(sorry, I don't have EMail as of month-end).

Sincerely,
Amanda


What is my worst fear as a transgender?

Being outed? No! Already done that. Just about everyone who knows me, (except my family who live in another state) knows about my clothing preference. Losing a lover? No! I'm very open about it and will sometimes show up for a first or second date in a skirt. This way whoever is attracted to me knows what they are getting into.

Being fired? Yes! This is one way the power structure can retaliate for my non-conformance. It would be a very painful experience. I'd like to think that I could survive it. Nothing to wear? No! I've still got my hair, but it definitely would be depressing.

Becoming normal? YES!!!!!! That's it! My worst fear is that I will lose my femininity and the desire to cross-dress will go away and never return. Now that would be hard to live with.

With love,
Barbara


Other Comments & Questions?- Email to: cindy@tgforum.com
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