comp.os.os2.beta (Usenet) Saturday, 18-Sep-1999 to Friday, 24-Sep-1999 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: snizinsk@us.ibm.com 17-Sep-99 09:21:25 To: All 18-Sep-99 01:08:05 Subj: ns461 download problem update From: Skip Nizinski Various beta users have been very gracious in providing traces to us thus far to try to determine what is causing downloads to terminate prematurely (without an error indication). Among them, Jim LaLone, Frank Schmittroth, Jerry Barrington, and Gene Alexander. I would like to publicly thank them all for their assistance, Thus far we have learned: * the problem seems to be timing-sensitive * the Injoy dialer is typically involved * the Injoy port speed setting affects the results While the above is not necessarily true in all cases, it has been the majority of cases. What we have seen in the traces is that the server side of the socket is reporting back a return code indicating that the download has completed and Communicator sees no error indication, despite the fact that we only have a partial file. We have further engaged our TCP/IP service team to try to get to the root cause of this problem. We will continue pursuing this problem, but it is very unlikely that any changes to Communicator will be made before we ship. Skip Nizinski IBM Austin - Netscape Communicator for OS/2 Development --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: IBM Austin (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: haa@mail1.stofanet.dk 17-Sep-99 19:00:22 To: All 18-Sep-99 01:08:05 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: Henrik Aaen Skip Nizinski wrote: > > Various beta users have been very gracious in providing traces to us > thus far to try to determine what is causing downloads to terminate > prematurely (without an error indication). Among them, Jim LaLone, Frank > Schmittroth, Jerry Barrington, and Gene Alexander. I would like to > publicly thank them all for their assistance, > > Thus far we have learned: > > * the problem seems to be timing-sensitive > * the Injoy dialer is typically involved > * the Injoy port speed setting affects the results > > While the above is not necessarily true in all cases, it has been the > majority of cases. > > What we have seen in the traces is that the server side of the socket is > reporting back a return code indicating that the download has completed > and Communicator sees no error indication, despite the fact that we only > have a partial file. > > We have further engaged our TCP/IP service team to try to get to the > root cause of this problem. > > We will continue pursuing this problem, but it is very unlikely that any > changes to Communicator will be made before we ship. > > Skip Nizinski > > IBM Austin - Netscape Communicator for OS/2 Development And the problem seems to be catalysed by other activities in the brouser. /Henrik Aaen using cable modem (download speeds up to 85K/Sec) --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Customer at Telia Danmark (http://www.telia.dk/) (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: arnews@dsgml.com 17-Sep-99 15:46:15 To: All 18-Sep-99 01:08:05 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: Ariel On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Skip Nizinski wrote: > What we have seen in the traces is that the server side of the socket is > reporting back a return code indicating that the download has completed > and Communicator sees no error indication, despite the fact that we only > have a partial file. I have a request. Take a look at wget - it has enough intelligence to get a web or ftp file regardless of bad connections, errors and anything else. It will keep trying and not stop till it gets the entire file. My request is that you do the same. For example yesterday I was trying to view a 200K web page which kept stopping (not stalling, netscape said download complete) at about 80K, and since it was a table I saw nothing. What you should do is keep trying to get the download until you get the entire thing. Of course you should use the resume functions of http and ftp. I kept reloading, but I was never able to get it - I finally used wget to download it, then viewed it in netscape. The same is true with downloads, anything you get off the web should pass through this code. You can easily take a look at the wget code to see how it does it - even if you don't copy it verbatim because of the license. Is there anything in what I'm asking that can't be done for any reason, technical, or otherwise? -Ariel --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net) (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: huffd@nls.net 18-Sep-99 01:35:08 To: All 18-Sep-99 04:37:13 Subj: Re: Microsoft Web Page? From: "David D. Huff Jr." It wasn't working for OS/2 and Netscape previously but I see it is working now. Marian Alexie wrote: > Hi, > > You'll find microsoft technical support at > > http://www.microsoft.com/support > > I got connected to the above web page > and was able to see it with both > OS/2 Warp 4 (FP10) and Caldera OpenLInux 2.3. > > Tim Erickson wrote: > > > > On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:33:22, Chuck Russell > > wrote: > > > > > Yes, I get a "Page not found". I wonder if that would be the case if I had > > > booted Win 9x? > > > > > > Timothy Sipples wrote: > > > > > > > Here's a weird one: > > > > > > > > Try visiting http://support.microsoft.com/support/default.asp, then click on > > > > "Search the KB." > > > > > > > > I went for a visit. This is the result: > > > > http://support.microsoft.com/support/error/404.htm?404;http://support. > > microsoft.com/support/misc/unsupported.asp > > > > That is copied verbatim from the browser's GoTo box. Note the last > > URL. > > > > hmmmm... > > > > Tim > > -- --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: brobbin2@rochester.rr.com 17-Sep-99 20:10:10 To: All 18-Sep-99 04:37:14 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: Britton Robbins This may not be the appropriate place for a request like this but here it goes. There is a CRISIS going on in comp.os.os2.advocacy right now. People are making it sound like OS/2 is really dead this time. i know better than to beleive it but there are a good number of the people there sounding like they are throwing in the towel. Anybody involved in current IBM sanctiond OS/2 development needs to go to c.o.o.a and let them know it's not dead yet. Britton Skip Nizinski wrote: > Various beta users have been very gracious in providing traces to us > thus far to try to determine what is causing downloads to terminate > prematurely (without an error indication). Among them, Jim LaLone, Frank > Schmittroth, Jerry Barrington, and Gene Alexander. I would like to > publicly thank them all for their assistance, > > Thus far we have learned: > > * the problem seems to be timing-sensitive > * the Injoy dialer is typically involved > * the Injoy port speed setting affects the results > > While the above is not necessarily true in all cases, it has been the > majority of cases. > > What we have seen in the traces is that the server side of the socket is > reporting back a return code indicating that the download has completed > and Communicator sees no error indication, despite the fact that we only > have a partial file. > > We have further engaged our TCP/IP service team to try to get to the > root cause of this problem. > > We will continue pursuing this problem, but it is very unlikely that any > changes to Communicator will be made before we ship. > > Skip Nizinski > > IBM Austin - Netscape Communicator for OS/2 Development --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: WCSIS (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: murdoctor@ausNOSPAMtin.rr.com 18-Sep-99 05:27:29 To: All 18-Sep-99 06:00:27 Subj: Re: Netscape 416 Beta2 wrecks Zip association...How to revert D'n'D? From: "Jeffrey S. Kobal" Buddy Donnelly wrote: > Are we saying that Netscape requirements will be allowed > to violate IBM's longstanding rules for WPS programming? No, what "we" are saying is that using the WPS drag/drop limits what the application can do while dragging, so we had to choose between limiting drag/drop capability or limiting functionality in the browser. We chose to keep the internal browser functionality and handle dragging to the WPS ourselves. > Someone should speak up to protect OS/2 in this regard. Protect OS/2? From what? Producing a browser for the OS/2 platform so that the customers that are funding the continued existence of the operating system will be able to utilize current Internet technologies seems to me like the best way to "protect OS/2"... wouldn't you agree? > It seems to me that Netscape should be improved ... [snip] Ok, if you wish to turn this into a Netscape-bashing discussion, I'll move right along. I was attempting to provide potentially information to a user that was having a problem, not open up the floor for picking apart the entire project. > to the point where it doesn't crash itself, or OS/2. Whenever I'm home visiting my parents... before I leave the house, my mom always tells me to "drive safely". Of course, this is completely silly advice, since I obviously would want to be driving safely anyway.... it's not like I'm going to say, "Oh, WOW! I didn't THINK of that! Thanks, Mom, I will!" She does it, however, because she cares about my safety. On the same token, your advice to us that we produce a product that doesn't crash is equally frivolous. Obviously, we don't want the browser to crash, and we do what we can to ensure that doesn't happen. And your "reminder" as such serves to show that YOU care about the quality of our product as well. However, just getting on the road in the car has some level of danger to it... with the dangers increasing with the duration and complexity of the drive. The same is true of developing a complex piece of software. (Yes, I realize I've violated the taboo metaphor of computers and cars, and I apologize for that.) > We DON'T have a well-programmed browser, and we > DON'T have somebody going out and getting plugins for it. On the former, I'm sorry you feel that way... on the latter, you can take that up with the development community at large. Jeffrey S. Kobal IBM Corporation Netscape Communicator for OS/2 - Development Team --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: murdoctor@ausNOSPAMtin.rr.com 18-Sep-99 06:08:07 To: All 18-Sep-99 11:03:05 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: "Jeffrey S. Kobal" Britton Robbins wrote: > There is a CRISIS going on in comp.os.os2.advocacy right now. > > People are making it sound like OS/2 is really dead this time. i know > better than to beleive it but there are a good number of the people there > sounding like they are throwing in the towel. Just looks like more of "The Sky Is Falling!" to me.... happens all the time around there. Here are the things they are panicking about: (1) IBM reportedly has no plans to release another OS/2 client. ANSWER: IBM usually doesn't announce "plans" to do anything. In fact, more often than not, the announcement doesn't come until the "plans" have already turned into a completed task. In addition, note that it was 2-3 years between Warp3 and Warp4, yet it has not even been 2 years since Warp4 was released, so why all the hubbub for a new client release, especially with the whole Year 2000 stuff looming over right now? (2) Negotiations for Stardock to produce an OS/2 client have reputedly ended with IBM declining Stardock's proposal. ANSWER: I don't know any of the background to this situation, but I can tell you I'm not surprised with the outcome; in fact, I'd have been VERY surprised if the deal went through. There are a lot of legal issues involved in licensing out source code, and many of those issues are compounded with the OS/2 code, for various reasons.... and that's only ONE factor involved. Jeffrey S. Kobal IBM Corporation --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: willem@horizontes-informatica.com 18-Sep-99 10:58:02 To: All 18-Sep-99 11:03:05 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: "Willem Clements" On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:21:50 -0500, Skip Nizinski wrote: >Various beta users have been very gracious in providing traces to us >thus far to try to determine what is causing downloads to terminate >prematurely (without an error indication). Among them, Jim LaLone, Frank >Schmittroth, Jerry Barrington, and Gene Alexander. I would like to >publicly thank them all for their assistance, > >Thus far we have learned: > > * the problem seems to be timing-sensitive > * the Injoy dialer is typically involved > * the Injoy port speed setting affects the results > >While the above is not necessarily true in all cases, it has been the >majority of cases. > Skip, For your info, I experience the problem without any dialer. I connect with a ZyXEL P100IH router to an ISDN line. I started a download of the same file with both OS/2 netscape and W98 netscape. The OS/2 download stopped, the W98 download terminated OK. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Iddeo - Retevisión (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com 18-Sep-99 11:27:09 To: All 18-Sep-99 11:03:05 Subj: Re: Netscape 416 Beta2 wrecks Zip association...How to revert D'n'D? From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly) On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:27:58, "Jeffrey S. Kobal" a Úcrit dans un message: > so we had to choose > between limiting drag/drop capability or limiting functionality in > the browser. We chose to keep the internal browser functionality > and handle dragging to the WPS ourselves. If that means you're adding back in the standard SOM stuff I'm thrilled. > > > Someone should speak up to protect OS/2 in this regard. > > Protect OS/2? From what? Producing a browser for the OS/2 > platform so that the customers that are funding the continued > existence of the operating system (Pardon my french but if "that are funding" refers to the multi-desk buyers that IBM has chosen to address themselves to, then screw'em. WE here all paid for and committed to an Operating System, fully expecting a respected company like IBM to stand behind their half of the transaction. IBM has chosen to say "screw you" to us, not the other way around.) > will be able to utilize current Internet technologies seems to me like the best > way to "protect OS/2"... wouldn't you agree? No, not completely. If the "current Internet technology" means sending news and mail via HTML, or, worse, dancing noisy pictures, or attaching those dumb "business cards" nobody has found a legitimate use for, then why waste time on that? I don't think adding in lots of code for purely Netscape bells and whistles is ever going to make up for the fact we won't have an identical browser to what a User on another platform has. Without the most common plugins, for instance, starting with current Real Audio and Real Media, Shockwave and Flash, it's dead meat. Or dynamic fonts, which are showing up on more and more commercial websites, and if your Composer doesn't handle them you're wasting your time building a Composer for OS/2. > > > It seems to me that Netscape should be improved ... [snip] > > Ok, if you wish to turn this into a Netscape-bashing discussion, > I'll move right along. I was attempting to provide potentially > information to a user that was having a problem, not open up > the floor for picking apart the entire project. Sorry for the tone. I don't mean to be attacking anybody's work, and I know you're having to work inside some pretty ridiculous-looking parameters, being in IBM and all. (No offense intended except to the stutified and unintellectual corporate culture of IBM.) > > > to the point where it doesn't crash itself, or OS/2. > > Whenever I'm home visiting my parents... before I leave the > house, my mom always tells me to "drive safely". Of course, > this is completely silly advice, since I obviously would want to > be driving safely anyway.... it's not like I'm going to say, "Oh, > WOW! I didn't THINK of that! Thanks, Mom, I will!" She does > it, however, because she cares about my safety. > > On the same token, your advice to us that we produce a > product that doesn't crash is equally frivolous. No, it's not, because if just ONE of the honchos who makes the larger decisions reads it and decides that maybe, just maybe, there's a reason to expand the job you've been given, and does it, then we're all better off, right? Netscape/2 crashes, and can even cause the hallowed crash "resistant" OS/2 to crash, or more usually, hang. And building in more functions FIRST instead of building OUT the bugs that cause it to step on its own tail is wasting a lot of all our time. A lot of people prefer NS 2.02 because the final version of that doesn't cause nearly as much trouble as all the 4.04 versions I've seen. It still isn't as good as it should have been. > Obviously, we > don't want the browser to crash, and we do what we can to > ensure that doesn't happen. And your "reminder" as such > serves to show that YOU care about the quality of our product > as well. Of course. > > However, just getting on the road in the car has some level > of danger to it... with the dangers increasing with the duration > and complexity of the drive. The same is true of developing > a complex piece of software. (Yes, I realize I've violated the > taboo metaphor of computers and cars, and I apologize for > that.) I don't know why it would be "taboo" because I thought it fit this very well. (And it's nice to correspond with someone whose brain is quick enough to move sideways and use a metaphor or an analogy to make a point.) > > > We DON'T have a well-programmed browser, and we > > DON'T have somebody going out and getting plugins for it. > > On the former, I'm sorry you feel that way... I'm guessing that you mean you are hoping I don't feel that way about your final product release? You surely can't think that the current betas are not seriously troublesome, can you? I still can't print a page that contains a picture without the second page becoming strangely magnified, but I'm assuming that all this gets cleaned up before the GA drop, or at least you'll take a fresh chop at it. Although there was a troubling comment here referring to problems with the In-Joy dialer that suggested y'all weren't going to do anything to fix that one because you had some kind of schedule to keep. (I don't want it right, I want it right now?) > on the latter, you > can take that up with the development community at large. No. No. A thousand times: No. IT IS THE JOB OF IBM to cultivate the plugin developers, not theirs to cultivate IBM. And the plugins have become STANDARD on the Internet, so you're not going to have Standard Internet Capabilities without them. Always a pleasure. No offense is ever intended, because your presence here can only help us all. Good luck, Buddy Buddy Donnelly donnelly@tampabay.rr.com --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: RoadRunner - TampaBay (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: mcbrides@erols.com 17-Sep-99 23:27:15 To: All 19-Sep-99 03:20:28 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride) In article <37E24E7D.2446A19F@us.ibm.com>, Skip Nizinski wrote: >Various beta users have been very gracious in providing traces to us >thus far to try to determine what is causing downloads to terminate >prematurely (without an error indication). Among them, Jim LaLone, Frank >Schmittroth, Jerry Barrington, and Gene Alexander. I would like to >publicly thank them all for their assistance, > >Thus far we have learned: > > * the problem seems to be timing-sensitive > * the Injoy dialer is typically involved > * the Injoy port speed setting affects the results > >While the above is not necessarily true in all cases, it has been the >majority of cases. > That's a puzzling statement, Skip. I use the DOIP utility to connect to my ISP and I have suffered the "partial download" syndrome since the 4.04 code and now into beta 2 of 4.61. Toggling the port speed does not help... >What we have seen in the traces is that the server side of the socket is >reporting back a return code indicating that the download has completed >and Communicator sees no error indication, despite the fact that we only >have a partial file. > >We have further engaged our TCP/IP service team to try to get to the >root cause of this problem. > >We will continue pursuing this problem, but it is very unlikely that any >changes to Communicator will be made before we ship. > That, is a darn shame too. I doubt seriously it's even related to Injoy or any dialer used, as it's ONLY the later versions of NetScape that demonstrate (with uncanny precision) the "partial download" problem. IMHO, it's gotta' be in the NetScape codebase... somewhere... Thank you, for your time. -- ******************************************************************************* * Sometimes, the BEST things in life really ARE free... * * Get a FREE copy of NetRexx 1.150 for your next java project at: * * http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/netrexx * ******************************************************************************* /----------------------------------------\ | From the desktop of: Jerome D. McBride | | mcbrides@erols.com | \----------------------------------------/ -- --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: TEAM-NETREXX (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: lifedata@xxvol.com 18-Sep-99 11:24:11 To: All 19-Sep-99 03:20:28 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: lifedata@xxvol.com mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride) said: >That, is a darn shame too. I doubt seriously it's even related to Injoy or any >dialer used, as it's ONLY the later versions of NetScape that demonstrate (with >uncanny precision) the "partial download" problem. I think that's mostly right and a tad wrong. It is apparently timing. I do know Injoy can introduce timing variances, as can others. At the same time, Netscape should be able to handle them. WebEx does. SOMETHING has got to be telling the server to send an "all done" message, and with my machine it is TOTALLY cured when I slow down the port speed. There HAS to be some connection, even though it doesn't show up on all machines. If it IS TIMING, that can vary some based on hardware, so the "It didn't happen to me" point doesn't look to me like it changes anything. Jim L Remove XX from address to Email More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: warp4@getTOnet.dk 18-Sep-99 22:45:16 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:22 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: "Allan Holm" On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:21:50 -0500, Skip Nizinski wrote: >Thus far we have learned: > > * the problem seems to be timing-sensitive > * the Injoy dialer is typically involved > * the Injoy port speed setting affects the results I can't see, how this have to do with In-Joy. Here, I'm using a proxy/cache app on my machine (smartcache) - which NS connects through. When I download a file, and NS breaks the connection, Smartcache still continues the transfer to its cache. When I can see on the line-monitor, that Smartcache has stopped downloading, I can start the transfer from NS again, and it will then 'download' the hole file (from smartcache), in about 1 second. As this is how it goes every time, I don't see how neither In-joy nor the server can have any faults - as Smartcache _never_ breaks on the same download. Allan. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: get2net Internet Kunde (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: lifedata@xxvol.com 18-Sep-99 19:19:18 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:22 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: lifedata@xxvol.com "Allan Holm" said: >I can't see, how this have to do with In-Joy. >As this is how it goes every time, I don't see how neither In-joy nor the >server can have any faults The connection is statistical. I've seen lots of users declare what it couldn't be Injoy. No problem. No one said it was an Injoy bug - go back and read it. It apparently happens most often with Injoy. That doesn't mean it can not happen in other situations. I think it DOES mean that whatever is happening from one situation to another means they have something in common. What specific people experience doesn't change that. It's similar to the old posts you see every so often which say, in essence, "I don't have the problem so it couldn't exist." You have to look where the stats lead you or you won't find anything to help fix Netscape. Even if, maybe especially if, people say this or that doesn't happen on MY system. Some people don't have any problem with download failure AT ALL. That does NOT mean it doesn't exist - I can assure you. Jim L Remove XX from address to Email More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: rsteiner@visi.com 18-Sep-99 18:58:07 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:23 Subj: Re: Netscape 416 Beta2 wrecks Zip association...How to revert D'n'D? From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) Here in comp.os.os2.beta, "Jeffrey S. Kobal" spake unto us, saying: >Buddy Donnelly wrote: > >> WE here all paid for and committed to an Operating >> System, fully expecting a respected company like >> IBM to stand behind their half of the transaction. > >And providing continuing support through free fixpacks is >exactly how IBM has been doing that. You are absolutely correct. IBM might be making some frustrating moves in my eyes right now regarding the OS/2 client and its future, but their support for their products (including OS/2 client) is *extremely* good, at least in terms of providing code fixes. There are times when I get really frustrated at IBM. And then I think of Microsoft and realize how good we have it (in some ways). -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Bloomington, MN OS/2 + Linux + BeOS + FreeBSD + Solaris + WinNT4 + Win95 + DOS + VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-) The Oracle has pondered your question deeply. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: FIELDATA FORTRAN ENTHUSIASTS CLUB (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: mchasson@ibm.net 18-Sep-99 20:28:09 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:23 Subj: 3175 on os23246.dll in ns451b2 From: mchasson@ibm.net Not to make too big a thing of this, but I have been seeing this error lately with 4.61b2 when I open a new browser window calling from the mail reader. The application then closes. CAn I adjust for this??? -- ---------------------------------------------------- ------ Monroe Chasson mchasson@ibm.net ----------------------------------------------------------- MR2ICE reg#51 --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Global Network Services - Remote Access Mail & Ne (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: hamei@pacbell.net 19-Sep-99 01:22:15 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:23 Subj: Re: Netscape 416 Beta2 wrecks Zip association...How to revert D'n'D? From: hamei@pacbell.net In , rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) writes: >Here in comp.os.os2.beta, "Jeffrey S. Kobal" >spake unto us, saying: > >>Buddy Donnelly wrote: >> >>> WE here all paid for and committed to an Operating >>> System, fully expecting a respected company like >>> IBM to stand behind their half of the transaction. >> >>And providing continuing support through free fixpacks is >>exactly how IBM has been doing that. > >You are absolutely correct. IBM might be making some frustrating moves >in my eyes right now regarding the OS/2 client and its future, but their >support for their products (including OS/2 client) is *extremely* good, >at least in terms of providing code fixes. IBM has severe classic schizophrenia, that's the only possible answer . . . . > >There are times when I get really frustrated at IBM. And then I think >of Microsoft and realize how good we have it (in some ways). > >-- > -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Bloomington, MN > OS/2 + Linux + BeOS + FreeBSD + Solaris + WinNT4 + Win95 + DOS > + VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-) > The Oracle has pondered your question deeply. sk†l ! ---------------------------------------------------------- H„rad ’ngravv†rd Windows NT - the Ornithopter of Operating Systems ----------------------------------------------------------- --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: SBC Internet Services (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: whonea@codenet.net 18-Sep-99 20:23:14 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:23 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: whonea@codenet.net (Will Honea) On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:19:36, lifedata@xxvol.com wrote: > The connection is statistical. I've seen lots of users declare what it couldn't > be Injoy. No problem. No one said it was an Injoy bug - go back and read it. > It apparently happens most often with Injoy. That doesn't mean it can not > happen in other situations. I think it DOES mean that whatever is happening > from one situation to another means they have something in common. What > specific people experience doesn't change that. It's similar to the old posts > you see every so often which say, in essence, "I don't have the problem so it > couldn't exist." Which again points out a hole in the reports we see: Lots of info about using Injoy, port rates, etc. How about some info on the IP stack level when you post? I can hardly eliminate that portion of the chain bu fiat. Will Honea --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: jeffos2@mindspring.com 19-Sep-99 00:25:05 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:23 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: jeffos2@mindspring.com (Jeffery Swagger) In , donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly) writes: >On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:21:50, Skip Nizinski a ‚crit >dans un message: > >> Various beta users have been very gracious in providing traces to us >> thus far to try to determine what is causing downloads to terminate >> prematurely (without an error indication). Among them, Jim LaLone, Frank >> Schmittroth, Jerry Barrington, and Gene Alexander. I would like to >> publicly thank them all for their assistance, >> >> Thus far we have learned: >> >> * the problem seems to be timing-sensitive >> * the Injoy dialer is typically involved > >Not surprising, given the possibility that anybody using dialup Internet >connections is likely to gravitate towards using this superior dialer >program. FWIW, I don't use InJoy but instead use PPP.EXE. I have always had this problem of premature download termination with all GA levels of Netscape 2.02 and all GA levels of Communicator 4.04. This is with TCP/IP 4.0 or 4.1. (I don't have the 4.61 beta). It's always been intermittent, unpredictable and non-reproducible. The "Saving Location" box simply closes with no indication that a problem occurred. I always thought that's just the way Netscape worked. So, I would suspect it's a long-standing bug in code that's been carried forward from release to release. I think you're just seeing InJoy because that's what the more "sophisticated" people use who are much more apt to report problems than the typical user. > >> >> We will continue pursuing this problem, but it is very unlikely that any >> changes to Communicator will be made before we ship. > >That sounds sad. Why the rush to ship a buggy product? Wait until y'all get >it right, is my suggestion. I'm oh so tired of having to work out bugs that >never should have made it out the door. > All non-trivial software has bugs. If you waited till it was totally De-Conned you'd never ship. At some point you just have to cut it lose and deal with the bugs later. Now, what might be possible would be to add code to check the original byte count of the file with the number actually downloaded and put up an error box if there is a difference. That way you would at least know right away that there was a problem and might suffice until the real bug can be found and fixed. ---- Jeff "They use Microsoft Excel to plot their data. Sometimes they get the results they expect, sometimes they don't." From Microsoft TV commercial, 1999. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: None (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: godfrey@isl.stanford.edu 19-Sep-99 05:20:02 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:23 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: godfrey@isl.stanford.edu In , jeffos2@mindspring.com (Jeffery Swagger) writes: >In , donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly) writes: >>On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:21:50, Skip Nizinski a ‚crit >>dans un message: >> >>> Various beta users have been very gracious in providing traces to us >>> thus far to try to determine what is causing downloads to terminate >>> prematurely (without an error indication). Among them, Jim LaLone, Frank >>> Schmittroth, Jerry Barrington, and Gene Alexander. I would like to >>> publicly thank them all for their assistance, >>> >>> Thus far we have learned: >>> >>> * the problem seems to be timing-sensitive >>> * the Injoy dialer is typically involved >> I doubt if this is accurate since I get premature ftp terminations using Netscape 4.07-1 on my Linux systems. The frequency of these terminations is about the same between Linux and OS/2. They only happen (to me) when using Netscape on a relatively slow interface (either frame relay or dialup). The frequency seems to be higher if the slow link is also carrying other traffic. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: ISL, Stanford University (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: news@fenrir.demon.co.uk 18-Sep-99 20:25:12 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:23 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: "Brian Morrison" On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:08:14 GMT, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote: >In >addition, note that it was 2-3 years between Warp3 and Warp4, >yet it has not even been 2 years since Warp4 was released Strange, I have been running Warp4 GA since the last quarter of 1996, so it is just coming up on 3 years since the release. Warp3 shipped in late 1994, October I think, so the Warp 3->4 gap was approximately two years. Before that, OS/2 2.1 went out in mid-1993, and 2.0 in April 1992. The gaps have been lengthening a bit, but a new client could still appear if IBM management would only realise who its real supporters are. -- Brian Morrison news@fenrir.demon.co.uk to reply, change address from 'news' to 'bdm' ...Grim faced, cold as fishwife's fingers, he snatched from the wall the sickle-sharp boar tusks he used for defacing Readers' Digest.... --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: The Fool and Bladder Face-Jumping Team (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: murdoctor@ausNOSPAMtin.rr.com 19-Sep-99 05:47:01 To: All 19-Sep-99 06:48:23 Subj: Re: 3175 on os23246.dll in ns451b2 From: "Jeffrey S. Kobal" mchasson@ibm.net wrote: > Not to make too big a thing of this, but I have been seeing this error > lately with 4.61b2 when I open a new browser window calling from the mail > reader. > > The application then closes. CAn I adjust for this??? Would you mind posting the complete exception information ("show register information") and exactly what you do to see the problem occur? Jeffrey S. Kobal IBM Corporation Netscape Communicator for OS/2 - Development Team --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: tvoltagg@home.com 19-Sep-99 13:21:01 To: All 19-Sep-99 18:48:06 Subj: Need help in Netscape beta2 to access secure sites and FTP From: tvoltagg@home.com Can anyone help me configure TCP/IP 4.1 for use as a "client" which is connected in a Peer network to a Win95b "server" which has a cable modem and Internet Gate on it? I'm having particular difficulty getting the "client" to access secure web sites in Netscape 4.61 Beta 2 and to Ftp. In particular, the Socks Server, Hostname and Routing tabs are a mystery to me. Otherwise everything else works OK. Particulars: "Server" - Win95b - 2 NICS - Internet Gate - Address 192.168.0.2 "Client" - Warp 4 - FP11 - TCP/IP 4.1 - Address 192.168.0.1 Address of Provider: IP Address: 24.7.223.2 Gateway: 24.7.223.1 Primary DNS: 24.2.212.12 Secondary DNS: 24.2.212.14 DNS Name: cg950645-a Any help would be appreciated. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Team OS/2 (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: jbrock@panix.com 19-Sep-99 12:05:27 To: All 19-Sep-99 18:48:07 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: jbrock@panix.com (John Brock) In article <37E48FB8.45E67AD4@ausNOSPAMtin.rr.com>, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote: >Brian Morrison wrote: >> On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:08:14 GMT, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote: >> >In >> >addition, note that it was 2-3 years between Warp3 and Warp4, >> >yet it has not even been 2 years since Warp4 was released >> Strange, I have been running Warp4 GA since the last quarter of 1996, >> so it is just coming up on 3 years since the release. >I stand corrected. The international versions of Warp4 weren't >released until early 1997, so that's what I was thinking about >(since I personally spent a lot of time on those). Still, 3 years >isn't that much time to be panicking about it now, especially >with Aurora and two releases of WSOD in between. I think that one of the reasons that people are panicking is what the lack of a new OS/2 client says about IBM's *intentions*. Producing a new client would be relatively cheap and easy, since it would simply be a stripped down version of the server. It would basically be free money (although perhaps not a whole lot). The fact that IBM did not announce a new client along with the new server suggests rather strongly that they would actually prefer that people like me (SOHO users) *not* use OS/2. (And this is *before* you you factor in all the interviews with IBM executives who say there will be no new client, and all the people claiming inside information who say the same thing). The idea that the vendor of the most fundamental piece of software on your system -- the OS -- wants you to stop using that software is kind of discouraging, don't you think? -- John Brock jbrock@panix.com --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Panix (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: jkovacs@ibm.net 19-Sep-99 17:58:20 To: All 19-Sep-99 18:48:07 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: jkovacs@ibm.net (Joe Kovacs) In <7s31l2$adp$1@panix.com>, jbrock@panix.com (John Brock) writes: >In article <37E48FB8.45E67AD4@ausNOSPAMtin.rr.com>, >Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote: >>Brian Morrison wrote: >>> On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:08:14 GMT, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote: >I think that one of the reasons that people are panicking Sorry, people aren't panicking. >is what the >lack of a new OS/2 client says about IBM's *intentions*. There is no lack of a new OS/2 client. There is nothing said about IBM's intentions. > The fact that IBM did not >announce a new client along with the new server There is no such thing as IBM announcing a client with a server. Never have, never will. >suggests rather >strongly There is no such suggestion. >that they would actually prefer that people like me (SOHO >users) *not* use OS/2. No one and nothing suggests this, not even close. (And this is *before* you you factor in all the >interviews with IBM executives who say there will be no new client There were no interviews with IBM executives. IBM executives did not say there will be no new client. >The idea that the vendor of the most fundamental piece of >software on your system -- the OS -- wants you to stop using >that software IBM wants me to continue to use OS/2. >is kind of discouraging There is no discouragement and everyone is upbeat. >don't you think? Dacoit, take your lies and fallacies to a debate newsgroup. Joe Kovacs Guelph Ontario Canada --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Water Utilities Hydraulic Analysis (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: esko.kauppinen@ibm.net 19-Sep-99 21:10:18 To: All 19-Sep-99 18:48:07 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: "Esko Kauppinen" Could being connected to a network be a common factor? I remember being suffering of the problem at home being connected to my "home network". But now that I have been abroad for several months and using my stand alone laptop, not a single failure during downloads. Just my 0,17 euros.... --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Global Network Services - Remote Access Mail & Ne (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: lifedata@xxvol.com 19-Sep-99 15:16:23 To: All 20-Sep-99 00:54:19 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: lifedata@xxvol.com jkovacs@ibm.net (Joe Kovacs) said: >There is no lack of a new OS/2 client. >There is nothing said about IBM's intentions. Okay, what planet are you really from? Jim L Remove XX from address to Email More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: murdoctor@ausNOSPAMtin.rr.com 19-Sep-99 07:26:28 To: All 20-Sep-99 00:54:19 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: "Jeffrey S. Kobal" Brian Morrison wrote: > On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:08:14 GMT, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote: > > >In > >addition, note that it was 2-3 years between Warp3 and Warp4, > >yet it has not even been 2 years since Warp4 was released > > Strange, I have been running Warp4 GA since the last quarter of 1996, > so it is just coming up on 3 years since the release. I stand corrected. The international versions of Warp4 weren't released until early 1997, so that's what I was thinking about (since I personally spent a lot of time on those). Still, 3 years isn't that much time to be panicking about it now, especially with Aurora and two releases of WSOD in between. Jeffrey S. Kobal IBM Corporation --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: oliver.rick@oor.de 19-Sep-99 19:29:28 To: All 20-Sep-99 00:54:19 Subj: No new OS/2 client From: oliver.rick@oor.de (Oliver Rick) On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote: > [...] In addition, note that it was 2-3 years between Warp3 and Warp4, Exactly 2 years (late Q3/94). > yet it has not even been 2 years since Warp4 was released, Exactly 3 years now (late Q3/96). > so why all the hubbub for a new client release, especially with the > whole Year 2000 stuff looming over right now? There is still no *Y2K ready* OS/2 *client* that works *out of the box*. We could have expected a Manufacturers Refresh (maybe Warp 4.1) with FixPak level 10 including 2 years old TCP/IP 4.1 with the 4.2 stack (MPTS 5.4), USB support, updated printer drivers, bidi LPT driver, new GRADD, Peer/LAN Distance fixes, new SVAgent/Netware Client, Communicator 4.04, Java 1.1.7 at least. Yes I know, NT 4 is 3 years old now as well. /Olli/ -- IBM OS/2 Warp Update Summary: http://www.warpupdates.de/english/warpupdates.html --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Out of Rosenheim/2 (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: pspmikek@yahoo.com 19-Sep-99 23:35:06 To: All 20-Sep-99 00:54:19 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: Michael Kaply lifedata@xxvol.com wrote: > At the same time, Netscape should be able to handle them. WebEx does. I have to comment on this one. We have the Web Explorer source code. We have looked a the web explorer source code. The code is EXACTLY the same as Netscape for handling downloads. The TCP/IP folks have acknowledged that there are serial TCP/IP problems in 4.0/4.1. They (the problems) are be investigated. Mike Kaply --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: pspmikek@yahoo.com 20-Sep-99 03:35:06 To: All 20-Sep-99 03:38:12 Subj: Re: No new OS/2 client From: Michael Kaply godfrey@isl.stanford.edu wrote: > As a user of WSEB as server and client (replacing SMP server and > WARP 4, respectively) it is obvious that the only step required for > IBM to ship a "WARP 4.5 Client" is to relabel the WSEB CD. WSEB > installs on a Pentium 100 with 64MB RAM, including TCP/IP, etc. > just as WARP 4 did. And, it runs as well as WARP 4+FP10. The big > difference is that it installs "out of the box." (Well, almost -- > NFS does not work.) You guys have such a one-sided view of software development. You are forgetting: rewriting install to not have server parts. retesting ENTIRE product. repackaging entire product Anyone who says "just take the server box and relabel it as a client" has NO idea. It's not just a marketing issue. Mike Kaply IBM --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: whonea@codenet.net 20-Sep-99 00:56:05 To: All 20-Sep-99 05:19:28 Subj: Re: No new OS/2 client From: whonea@codenet.net (Will Honea) On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:35:12, Michael Kaply wrote: > > > godfrey@isl.stanford.edu wrote: > > > As a user of WSEB as server and client (replacing SMP server and > > WARP 4, respectively) it is obvious that the only step required for > > IBM to ship a "WARP 4.5 Client" is to relabel the WSEB CD. WSEB > > installs on a Pentium 100 with 64MB RAM, including TCP/IP, etc. > > just as WARP 4 did. And, it runs as well as WARP 4+FP10. The big > > difference is that it installs "out of the box." (Well, almost -- > > NFS does not work.) > > You guys have such a one-sided view of software development. > > You are forgetting: > > rewriting install to not have server parts. > > retesting ENTIRE product. > > repackaging entire product > > Anyone who says "just take the server box and relabel it as a client" has NO idea. > > It's not just a marketing issue. > > Mike Kaply > IBM Chuckle... The voice of reason and experience - you can tell who has 'been there, done that'. If memory serves me, the install procedure has been the topic of many long threads but no one has stepped forward with a replacement install script. Re-packaging the original install CD to incorporate the current fixpak level is far simpler but even that has still not been done - by IBM or anyone else. Much as I would like to see even that first step, I'm not about to step up to the task even if IBM would bless the end result. Not an impossible task, but you point out one of the 'simple' steps that would require an investment of what, a good man-year to do? Will Honea --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: bogus.due2UCE@atlantic.net 19-Sep-99 22:48:22 To: All 20-Sep-99 14:52:05 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: Felix Miata Michael Kaply wrote: > lifedata@xxvol.com wrote: > > At the same time, Netscape should be able to handle them. WebEx does. > I have to comment on this one. > We have the Web Explorer source code. We have looked a the web explorer source code. > The code is EXACTLY the same as Netscape for handling downloads. > The TCP/IP folks have acknowledged that there are serial TCP/IP problems in 4.0/4.1. > They (the problems) are be investigated. Maybe this would explain the page loading halt prior to the "done" status being displayed on all OS/2 Netscape versions from 2.02 up. -- A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his tongue. Proverbs 11:12 NKJV Team OS/2 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.members.atlantic.net --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Webmasters, have you read: http://www.mcsr.olemis (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: veit@simi.gmd.de 20-Sep-99 14:16:18 To: All 20-Sep-99 14:52:05 Subj: Re: No new OS/2 client From: veit@simi.gmd.de (Holger Veit) On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:28:44 GMT, Mooo wrote: >oliver.rick@oor.de (Oliver Rick) wrote: > >>Yes I know, NT 4 is 3 years old now as well. > >But has had several manufacturing refreshes in that time. New copies >of NT are routinely shipped with whatever the latest fixpack is >already applied. The small detail is that M$ has regularly modified the distribution disks of WinXX multiple times and shipped changed versions without mentioning. This does not have anything to do with service packs which, likewise to fixpacks under OS/2, you have to get in addition. Since such hidden new versions are not documented (in contrast to OS/2's fixpacks which list every bug fixed), it is almost impossible to be sure what you get, even if you buy a new box. You may encounter a stone old version off the shelfs. >This alone would be enough for many users and businesses. Fully >fixpacked, Warp4 is able to easily hold its own. > >The trouble is that applying multitudes of fixes requires a great deal >of time. Time is money, and OEM's, resellers have to add this cost to >all roll outs they do, this makes OS/2 even more expensive than it >already is (from the direct sales point of view, its still a lot >cheaper to run from a TCO point of view). This is no issue for companies. Provide an installation server which is recommended for more than 5 hosts, and let the clients update themselves. This is well established stuff for years for OS/2 - for NT, you are forced to do system management by Nike. Holger -- Signature fault - code dumbed --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: GMD-AiS (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: lifedata@xxvol.com 20-Sep-99 17:45:27 To: All 20-Sep-99 20:06:16 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: lifedata@xxvol.com jeffos2@mindspring.com (Jeffery Swagger) said: >Interesting. I don't recall having the problem with Webx, but have with >Netscape 2.02 and 4.04. Could have had it with Webx and just don't remember. FWIW, before I got a work around I always used WebEx to download stuff 4.x wouldn't. Never failed once. Jim L Remove XX from address to Email More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: lifedata@xxvol.com 20-Sep-99 12:45:23 To: All 20-Sep-99 21:25:21 Subj: Re: No new OS/2 client From: lifedata@xxvol.com whonea@codenet.net (Will Honea) said: >CD to incorporate the current fixpak level is far simpler but even that has >still not been done - by IBM or anyone else. Much as I would like to see even >that first step, I'm not about to step up to the task even if IBM would bless >the end result. >Not an impossible task, but you point out one of the 'simple' steps that would >require an investment of what, a good man-year to do? So, since they won't do it, in essence we ALL have to. Jim L Remove XX from address to Email More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: lifedata@xxvol.com 20-Sep-99 12:52:03 To: All 20-Sep-99 21:25:21 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: lifedata@xxvol.com Felix Miata said: >> The TCP/IP folks have acknowledged that there are serial TCP/IP problems in 4.0/4.1. > >> They (the problems) are be investigated. >Maybe this would explain the page loading halt prior to the "done" status being >displayed on all OS/2 Netscape versions from 2.02 up. I have discovered that the same thing that fixes my download failures also fixes the page load halt. Jim L Remove XX from address to Email More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: jeffos2@mindspring.com 20-Sep-99 17:23:07 To: All 20-Sep-99 21:25:22 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: jeffos2@mindspring.com (Jeffery Swagger) In <37E572DA.C654E7E2@yahoo.com>, Michael Kaply writes: > > >lifedata@xxvol.com wrote: > >> At the same time, Netscape should be able to handle them. WebEx does. > >I have to comment on this one. > >We have the Web Explorer source code. We have looked a the web explorer source code. > >The code is EXACTLY the same as Netscape for handling downloads. > >The TCP/IP folks have acknowledged that there are serial TCP/IP problems in 4.0/4.1. > >They (the problems) are be investigated. > >Mike Kaply > Interesting. I don't recall having the problem with Webx, but have with Netscape 2.02 and 4.04. Could have had it with Webx and just don't remember. Been a long time since I used it. In any case I have always used PPP.EXE with both TCP/IP 4.0 and 4.1. Not InJoy or anything else. Another thing occurs to me. Up until a month ago I was using a badly overloaded 24M 486-DX266. Since I upgraded to a 128M K6-III 400 I haven't seen the problem. So perhaps it might be a system load related problem. ---- Jeff The difference between Involvement and Commitment can be illustrated by a breakfast of ham and eggs. The chicken was involved; the pig was committed. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: None (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: zayne@omen.com.au 20-Sep-99 17:17:24 To: All 20-Sep-99 21:25:22 Subj: Re: No new OS/2 client From: zayne@omen.com.au (Mooo) veit@simi.gmd.de (Holger Veit) wrote: >>The trouble is that applying multitudes of fixes requires a great deal >>of time. Time is money, and OEM's, resellers have to add this cost to >>all roll outs they do, this makes OS/2 even more expensive than it >>already is (from the direct sales point of view, its still a lot >>cheaper to run from a TCO point of view). > >This is no issue for companies. Provide an installation server which is >recommended for more than 5 hosts, and let the clients update themselves. >This is well established stuff for years for OS/2 - for NT, you are >forced to do system management by Nike. Hmm, yes you are right of course. I was talking and showing my ignorance. I've had a decent go at tackling this stuff quite a few times. Does it -really- have to be so darn complex? heh But, of course, its a do once save a helluva lot of time later type affair. I should look closer into this type of solution. Craig --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Nothing I say is my own opinion (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: godfrey@isl.stanford.edu 21-Sep-99 01:14:27 To: All 21-Sep-99 02:02:03 Subj: Re: No new OS/2 client From: godfrey@isl.stanford.edu (Michael Godfrey) In , whonea@codenet.net (Will Honea) writes: >On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:35:12, Michael Kaply >wrote: > >> >> >> godfrey@isl.stanford.edu wrote: >> >> > As a user of WSEB as server and client (replacing SMP server and >> > WARP 4, respectively) it is obvious that the only step required for >> > IBM to ship a "WARP 4.5 Client" is to relabel the WSEB CD. WSEB >> > installs on a Pentium 100 with 64MB RAM, including TCP/IP, etc. >> > just as WARP 4 did. And, it runs as well as WARP 4+FP10. The big >> > difference is that it installs "out of the box." (Well, almost -- >> > NFS does not work.) >> >> You guys have such a one-sided view of software development. >> >> You are forgetting: >> >> rewriting install to not have server parts. >> >> retesting ENTIRE product. >> >> repackaging entire product >> >> Anyone who says "just take the server box and relabel it as a client" has NO idea. >> >> It's not just a marketing issue. >> >> Mike Kaply >> IBM > >Chuckle... The voice of reason and experience - you can tell who has >'been there, done that'. If memory serves me, the install procedure >has been the topic of many long threads but no one has stepped forward >with a replacement install script. Re-packaging the original install >CD to incorporate the current fixpak level is far simpler but even >that has still not been done - by IBM or anyone else. Much as I would >like to see even that first step, I'm not about to step up to the task >even if IBM would bless the end result. > >Not an impossible task, but you point out one of the 'simple' steps >that would require an investment of what, a good man-year to do? > > >Will Honea You folks missed the first words of my comment: as a user. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: sma.spam-not@rtd.com 21-Sep-99 03:37:00 To: All 21-Sep-99 02:02:04 Subj: Re: HPFS386, The Reality... From: James Moe Anonymous wrote: > > Installing HPFS386 into a Warp v4 client makes your system FASTER!. If > you think, this hurts IBM, think again. The reason IBM does'nt include > HPFS386 into Warp v4 is because MS charges HUGE royalties for EACH copy > of HPFS386!. Therefore, IBM only includes it with Warp Server. > Beware! HPFS386 is not, repeat, NOT qualified to operate with warp 4 (Verified by IBM experts). As I discovered. Yes, it is significantly faster than HPFS. If you are not using Peer networking, you will likely never have a problem. If you do, your system is likely to be thoroughly trashed by a system crash induced by HPFS386. It takes out large chunks of the directory structure when it goes down. I could find no way to recover (other than from backups). -- sma at rtd dot com Remove ".spam-not" for email --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Sohnen-Moe Associates, Inc (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: bogus.due2UCE@atlantic.net 20-Sep-99 21:13:26 To: All 21-Sep-99 03:35:03 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: Felix Miata lifedata@xxvol.com wrote: > Felix Miata said: > >> The TCP/IP folks have acknowledged that there are serial TCP/IP problems in 4.0/4.1. > >> They (the problems) are be investigated. > >Maybe this would explain the page loading halt prior to the "done" status being > >displayed on all OS/2 Netscape versions from 2.02 up. > I have discovered that the same thing that fixes my download failures also fixes > the page load halt. Which is? -- A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his tongue. Proverbs 11:12 NKJV Team OS/2 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.members.atlantic.net --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Webmasters, have you read: http://www.mcsr.olemis (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: tomlins@cam.org 21-Sep-99 11:26:09 To: All 21-Sep-99 10:41:07 Subj: Re: No new OS/2 client From: tomlins@cam.org In <37E5AB18.535A096A@yahoo.com>, Michael Kaply writes: >You guys have such a one-sided view of software development. > >You are forgetting: > >rewriting install to not have server parts. > >retesting ENTIRE product. > >repackaging entire product > >Anyone who says "just take the server box and relabel it as a client" has NO idea. Thought this was basicly what MS did with NT... >It's not just a marketing issue. I would however settle for a Manufacturing refresh at the latest FP(s) and other Software upgraded to current levels. Would also be nice to have the latest kernel. Alternatly sell me the server product (for home use) at a reasonable price, with informal support over the net. Note I payed $300 for warp. Another $300 would not be unreasonable. Note that disabling all server functions would NOT be acceptable - I use my W4 in a peer to peer net... --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: me (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: lifedata@xxvol.com 21-Sep-99 10:26:17 To: All 21-Sep-99 17:28:11 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: lifedata@xxvol.com Felix Miata said: >> >> The TCP/IP folks have acknowledged that there are serial TCP/IP problems in 4.0/4.1. >> >> They (the problems) are be investigated. >> >Maybe this would explain the page loading halt prior to the "done" status being >> >displayed on all OS/2 Netscape versions from 2.02 up. >> I have discovered that the same thing that fixes my download failures also fixes >> the page load halt. >Which is? Lowering the port speed. Doesn't help everybody. Running at 115K port speed I NEVER got a large download to finish. Running at 57K it ALWAYS finished. For all that, I have downloaded two large files with the GA at 115K - no problem. Obviously not everybody get the same results. This is why I still think it is some kind of timing issue. When I was running one of IBM's tracer versions of 4.61 b2 I had the same thing - 6 or 7 good, large downloads. They changed the tracer code and I started getting all failures again. Go figure. Jim L Remove XX from address to Email More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: doug.bissett"at"ibm.net 21-Sep-99 18:48:03 To: All 21-Sep-99 17:28:12 Subj: Re: ns461 download problem update From: doug.bissett"at"ibm.net (Doug Bissett) On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:26:34, lifedata@xxvol.com wrote: > Lowering the port speed. Doesn't help everybody. Running at 115K port speed I > NEVER got a large download to finish. Running at 57K it ALWAYS finished. > Are you using the COM.SYS, as supplied with OS/2 (and/or fix packs)? Or, are you using Ray Gwinn's SIO driver? I don't see very many download problems (I always run at 115K) with the SIO driver. Hope this helps... ****************************** From the PC of Doug Bissett doug.bissett at ibm.net The " at " must be changed to "@" ****************************** --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Global Network Services - Remote Access Mail & Ne (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: jscott@csolve.net 21-Sep-99 19:51:10 To: All 21-Sep-99 17:28:12 Subj: Beta 3 From: JohnS Nice cleanup job on Netscape 461ga. Drag now appears to work and NS46drag no longer hangs my machine. But (there always is one eh) some page loading is still painfully slow when compared to NS202. http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/;$sessionid$VAMZKJQABPMM3AMUVFZE5YQ is an excellent example. NS202 loads it consistantly under 15 seconds (48,000 line speed). 461GA pegs the activity monitor and takes 120 seconds to load the same page consistantly. Is it just me? Johns --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Sympatico (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: oliver.rick@oor.de 20-Sep-99 22:49:11 To: All 22-Sep-99 04:29:01 Subj: WebEx cource code From: oliver.rick@oor.de (Oliver Rick) On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 Michael Kaply wrote: > We have the Web Explorer source code. We have looked a the web explorer > source code. Do you think that IBM could release it to the public? /Olli/ -- IBM OS/2 Warp Update Summary: http://www.warpupdates.de/english/warpupdates.html --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Out of Rosenheim/2 (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com 21-Sep-99 20:53:05 To: All 22-Sep-99 04:29:01 Subj: Re: Beta 3 From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly) On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:51:20, JohnS a Úcrit dans un message: > > Nice cleanup job on Netscape 461ga. Drag now appears to work and > NS46drag no longer hangs > my machine. > > But (there always is one eh) some page loading is still painfully slow > when compared to > NS202. > http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/;$sessionid$VAMZKJQABPMM3AMUVFZE5YQ > > is an excellent example. NS202 loads it consistantly under 15 seconds > (48,000 line speed). > 461GA pegs the activity monitor and takes 120 seconds to load the same > page consistantly. > > Is it just me? It might just be settings you're using right now. That URL loads to "Done" in about your 15-20 seconds here. I do have SmartCache running but I don't see that it is blocking anything, and I don't have any www.sun.com elements caches. By the way, I do see the Ctrl-Alt-T popup is now working. I don't see much mention of it here, but this is a handy tool for displaying the status of all the connections in Netscape, as well as dragging off (via DragText) the various URLs being used. Good luck, Buddy Buddy Donnelly donnelly@tampabay.rr.com --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: RoadRunner - TampaBay (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: jscott@csolve.net 22-Sep-99 01:02:18 To: All 22-Sep-99 04:29:01 Subj: Re: Beta 3 From: JohnS Thanks for enlightening me regarding the CTL ALT T. Tried that site "from scratch". Still over a minute. There is a strange thing in the CTL ALT T display, I think. The same gif was using 3 of the 4 available sockets to download. Is there anywhere that one can get an explaination of that display? URL:http://www.sun.com/pics/dot.gif sock: 494 con_sock:-1 protocol: 4 URL:http://www.sun.com/pics/dot.gif sock: 495 con_sock:-1 protocol: 4 URL:http://www.sun.com/pics/dot.gif sock: 496 con_sock:-1 protocol: 4 TNX Buddy Donnelly wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:51:20, JohnS a ÿcrit dans un > message: > > > > > Nice cleanup job on Netscape 461ga. Drag now appears to work and > > NS46drag no longer hangs > > my machine. > > > > But (there always is one eh) some page loading is still painfully slow > > when compared to > > NS202. > > http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/;$sessionid$VAMZKJQABPMM3AMUVFZE5YQ > > > > is an excellent example. NS202 loads it consistantly under 15 seconds > > (48,000 line speed). > > 461GA pegs the activity monitor and takes 120 seconds to load the same > > page consistantly. > > > > Is it just me? > > It might just be settings you're using right now. That URL loads to "Done" > in about your 15-20 seconds here. I do have SmartCache running but I don't > see that it is blocking anything, and I don't have any www.sun.com elements > caches. > > By the way, I do see the Ctrl-Alt-T popup is now working. I don't see much > mention of it here, but this is a handy tool for displaying the status of > all the connections in Netscape, as well as dragging off (via DragText) the > various URLs being used. > > Good luck, > > Buddy > > Buddy Donnelly > donnelly@tampabay.rr.com --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Sympatico (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: bluewarp@yahoo.com 22-Sep-99 00:12:11 To: All 22-Sep-99 04:29:01 Subj: w/ drag'n'drop back, I am sooooo happy From: "bluewarp" Thank god (in this case I mean the netscape/2 team) for bringing back the drag'n'drop. For the last year I have repeatedly tried to drag things from netscape and of course it didn't work. W/ the ga 461, life and the internet have returned to norml. So a HUGE thanks for bringing this feature back. It had been so long since I had drug a page or a link off, that I almost forgot and thought I was running Windoze (w/out the traps of course ) regards, Jim --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: dtander@agts.net 22-Sep-99 16:06:16 To: All 23-Sep-99 04:15:25 Subj: Re: w/ drag'n'drop back, I am sooooo happy From: dtander@agts.net (David T. Anderson) On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:12:22, "bluewarp" wrote: > Thank god (in this case I mean the netscape/2 team) for bringing back the > drag'n'drop. For the last year I have repeatedly tried to drag things from > netscape and of course it didn't work. W/ the ga 461, life and the internet > have returned to norml. The new drag and drop process seems to have solved the zipfile association problem I was having, and that's darned good. However -- I note that I still can't d'n'd highlighted text off NS461...and that's something I miss. Also, I happened to be doing a bit of surfing with good ol' WebExplorer the other day and happened to drag an image to the desktop...and noticed that the image file was automatically iconized with the image when I dropped it....a feature I like a lot. This is not to take away from the well-deserved praise the IBM-Netscape team is getting for having done a great job...only to point out that they still have worlds left to conquer. David T. Anderson Calgary, Alberta http://www.agt.net/public/dtander/ Using ProNews/2 for OS/2 Warp **NOSPAM** To email me, remove the 's' from my address... --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: dtander@agts.net 23-Sep-99 02:38:01 To: All 23-Sep-99 06:08:14 Subj: Re: w/ drag'n'drop back, I am sooooo happy From: dtander@agts.net (David T. Anderson) On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:39:33, Michael Kaply wrote: > > > "David T. Anderson" wrote: > > > However -- I note that I still can't d'n'd highlighted text off > > NS461...and that's something I miss. > > Can you be more specific? Where are you trying to drag this text to? > > You can drag highlighted text to the composer. I meant dragging chunks of text from the browser to the Desktop... Is this one of those inside-the-app vs. outside-the-app compromises you had to make? It's not a big deal since I can do it easily enough via cut'n'paste...it's just so....Windows, y'know? David T. Anderson Calgary, Alberta http://www.agt.net/public/dtander/ Using ProNews/2 for OS/2 Warp **NOSPAM** To email me, remove the 's' from my address... --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: asmirnov@mid.ru 23-Sep-99 15:52:16 To: All 23-Sep-99 20:16:01 Subj: SysInfo/2 Project - Gamma 3 (Need beta testers) From: Alexey Smirnov Dear friends! I am just upload into Hobbes my new SysInfo/2 tool - a PM self-made clone of Symantec NU for Win 95/NT SystemInfo tool. The archive name is sysinfo003.zip. It contain not only my tool, but new THESEUS0.DLL and THESEUS2.SYS that can work with "Aurora". Please, I ask you to take part in beta testing of the result of my hard work... ;-)) Best regards, Alexey Smirnov. --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Combellga (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: mkaply@NOSPAMus.ibm.com 23-Sep-99 11:10:26 To: All 23-Sep-99 20:16:01 Subj: Re: w/ drag'n'drop back, I am sooooo happy From: Michael Kaply Yep, it's an internal external thing. Hopefully in the future we can get some better stuff for d and d. Mike Kaply IBM "David T. Anderson" wrote: >I meant dragging chunks of text from the browser to the Desktop... >Is this one of those inside-the-app vs. outside-the-app compromises >you had to make? It's not a big deal since I can do it easily enough >via cut'n'paste...it's just so....Windows, y'know? --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: IBM (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: nospam_ktk@netlabs.org 23-Sep-99 18:53:22 To: All 24-Sep-99 04:26:02 Subj: Re: SysInfo/2 Project - Gamma 3 (Need beta testers) From: "Adrian Gschwend" On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:52:32 +0400, Alexey Smirnov wrote: >sysinfo003.zip. It contain not only my tool, but new THESEUS0.DLL and >THESEUS2.SYS that can work with "Aurora". > Please, I ask you to take part in beta testing of the result of my >hard work... ;-)) Wow, how have you done this? I thought THESEUS does not work anymore with Aurora! cu Adrian --- Adrian Gschwend @ OS/2 Netlabs ICQ: 22419590 ktk@netlabs.org ------- The OS/2 OpenSource Project: http://www.netlabs.org --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: OS/2 Netlabs (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: joop.wassenburg@hetnet.nl 23-Sep-99 21:58:25 To: All 24-Sep-99 04:26:03 Subj: Re: w/ drag'n'drop back, I am sooooo happy From: "jca wassenburg" bluewarp schreef in berichtnieuws oyhrjneclnubbpbz.fig10m0.pminews@news.rdu.bellsouth.net... > Thank god (in this case I mean the netscape/2 team) for bringing back the > drag'n'drop. For the last year I have repeatedly tried to drag things from > netscape and of course it didn't work. W/ the ga 461, life and the internet > have returned to norml. > > So a HUGE thanks for bringing this feature back. It had been so long since I > had drug a page or a link off, that I almost forgot and thought I was running > Windoze (w/out the traps of course ) > > regards, > > Jim > > ghjkl --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: racette@cablevision.qc.ca 23-Sep-99 21:24:22 To: All 24-Sep-99 04:26:03 Subj: Re: SysInfo/2 Project - Gamma 3 (Need beta testers) From: racette@cablevision.qc.ca (Martin Racette) On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:52:32, Alexey Smirnov wrote: > Dear friends! > I am just upload into Hobbes my new SysInfo/2 tool - a PM self-made > clone of Symantec NU for Win 95/NT SystemInfo tool. The archive name is > sysinfo003.zip. It contain not only my tool, but new THESEUS0.DLL and > THESEUS2.SYS that can work with "Aurora". > Please, I ask you to take part in beta testing of the result of my > hard work... ;-)) > > Best regards, Alexey Smirnov. > what is the URL ? //------------------------- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin http://205.237.57.73/ ICQ #48552954 --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Origin Line 1 Goes Here (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: windowssucks@hotmail.com 24-Sep-99 00:55:06 To: All 24-Sep-99 04:26:03 Subj: Re: SysInfo/2 Project - Gamma 3 (Need beta testers) From: "Windos Sucks" On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:24:44 GMT, Martin Racette wrote: :>> Dear friends! :>> I am just upload into Hobbes my new SysInfo/2 tool - a PM self-made :>> clone of Symantec NU for Win 95/NT SystemInfo tool. The archive name is :>> sysinfo003.zip. It contain not only my tool, but new THESEUS0.DLL and :>> THESEUS2.SYS that can work with "Aurora". :>> Please, I ask you to take part in beta testing of the result of my :>> hard work... ;-)) :>> :>> Best regards, Alexey Smirnov. :>> :> :>what is the URL ? ftp://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/incoming/sysinfo003.zip --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: EuroNet Internet (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: warp@ktn.net 23-Sep-99 20:37:23 To: All 24-Sep-99 04:36:17 Subj: Re: SysInfo/2 Project - Gamma 3 (Need beta testers) From: Lee Pearson During startup, while a dialog is displayed with the title "Gathering Information. Please, Wait!", the following error pops up. Critical Error TList error exception (EListError) occured at $0001048C ! Terminate program? <_Yes> <_No> Yes results in: Exception occured: List error exception (EListError) occured at $00038BF5 Program is terminated. No results in the program exiting silently(no other errors.) --- ============================ Lee Pearson ============================ --- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165 * Origin: Usenet: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C. (1:109/42) +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +============================================================================+