| From: | Xavier Messersmith |
| Date: | 12 Jan 2000 at 23:58:51 |
| Subject: | Re: MUI, having nothing to do with OS3.5 |
From: Xavier Messersmith <xcaliber@xav.to>
On 12-Jan-00, Uffe Holst wrote:
> Futhermore I have to admit that the GUI creation doesn't interest me.
Well, I won't bother you with my theories on how easy it should be without
resorting to your favorite MUI then.
> But I took a look at the OS3.5 CD, and I would imagine
> that the email library is the one named aml.library.
>
> AmigaOS3.5:OS-Version3.5/Workbench/Libs/aml.library
Doh.
Why doesn't it have a more obvious name? AMail.library or such? I hope this
isn't a trend, I'd hate to have to wade through a bunch of wb.libraries and
hdw.libraries and lcl.libraries. I dunno...
>> I'm sure you could hack your way through and smooth it out on the
>> rebound. If you can manage email filters you could probably do this...
>
> I think e-mail filters are a lot easier than creating a font-sensitive GUI.
It probably depends on how involved the GUI is.
>> I agree that faster processors open up new opportunities. But I don't
>> think it should all be blown towards managing a mediocre interface for a
>> shoddily built program.
>
> Hard to disagree with this. Personally I don't find MUI to be a mediocre
> interface, though it probably could be optimized a lot.
I'm still waiting for some more 020+ support. Doesn't make sense to support
such an amazingly outdated (but still kinda neat in its antiquity) processor.
> But like most
> software on this platform we have got to use what is available, because
> very few Amiga programmers can work full-time for the Amiga. Considering
> the limited time available to our programmers then I can surely understand
> that the take the line of least resistance - in general meaning to huge
> optimization is being done because that takes a lot of time.
Surely they can poke at the walls of the line of least resistance with a long
stick every now and then? Perhaps some of thouse routes don't entail a whole
lot more resistance...
>>> As you perhaps have heard, Steve Koren decided to stop developing NewsRog
>>> due to several reason a week or so ago - main reason being that it is
>>> being pirated and nobody is really registering it any more.
>>
>> Indeed, and as one of the registered I'm kinda ticked since there are still
>> outstanding bugs. (mainly in the MUI handling)
>
> Show me a larger application without bugs. I think it is a bit sad that
> the Amiga community is so little and so little inclined toward registering
> software.
Problem is that most of NewsRog seems to be in the interface.
If I ever get to making a bigger program without any bugs I'll tell you if I
remember to. :-)
Hows that?
>> I hate AGA dependancy, ...
>
> But still a lot of people are dependant upon AGA. If an application doesn't
> support AGA, then it wont sell. Most applications are luckily today not
> dependant upon AGA - e.g. all MUI applications work under CGX or similar.
I'm not against a little AGA support. I just think people should refrain from
banging on the chipset too directly, graphics cards are alot faster (even alot
of the slow ones).
>> Theres the problem, I never touch AWeb. Its a sickly little web browser...
>
> Never liked it myself, but it is still the available browser with the best
> JavaScript support. Even 3.2demo manages to display http://www.dds.dk
> (although it displays 100 or so JS errors). IBrowse 2.1 simply displays
> a grey page. Voyager improved a bit from 3.0 pre-release 5 to 3.0 final,
> because it now displays two JS error requesters before the grey page.
> Before it only displayed the grey page :-)
I don't consider JavaScript to be part of the HTML specification.
>> I think if there are easy optimimizations that drasticly improve performance
>> then they should be done. No point in a program that drools on itsself. If I
>> wanted something big and stupid, I'd do it myself in ARexx.
>
> Naturally I agree with you, but before making such claims I think one has
> to review the developer base on the Amiga platform. And the developer base
> is quite small and has a lot to do - and they don't get paid for it,
> because nobody bothers registering when they can obtain a pirated copy.
Registering nowadays is what? $40? I think if a person thinks they've gotten
that much worth of work out of a program they should go register it, show
support, encourage continued development.
Pirate versions are good for demoing otherwise undemoable software, if it
starts to pay off and/or you've been demoing it for too long. BUY IT!
Piracy should be a force for good, not evil.
(and who really wants to use a cR4ck3d & HaX0r3d version of something they can
easily afford anyways? can you really tell if the 3r33t kid with nothing
better to do has stuck something malicious in there?)
> And optimizations and bug hunting are slow and boring. Bug hunting is
> necessary, but I can definitely understand if they cut a few corners and
> skip some of the optimization.
One option is to figure out how to optimize before laying down the code. And
in the case of bug hunting, you should be able to find bug related code pretty
quickly.
> One of my friends is a programmer and his is currently working that will
> be released by Eidos in nine months or so. He has told me that they in
> general program aimed for the next generation of processors, e.g. they might
> be working on 300 MHz processors, but they are aiming the game at 700 MHz,
> because if they don't do so they wont succeed and will be out of
> competition. In this way you sort of get a nice evolving environment where
> both programmers and hardware developers try to be better and faster all
> the time. My friend is more or less programming for the computers of 2001.
Depending on the development cycle it may well take that long before it gets
released. :-)
Of course this sort of thing is one of the causes PCs are advancing so
quickly, the blind masses can afford to drive prices down. Which subsequently
leads to more demand...
> On the Amiga the programmer is working on an Amiga equipped with graphics
> card and 060, and he has to aim his work at 020 AGA's. I find the
> development environment on the Amiga platform to be very stagnant. Amiga
> programmers are programming for the computers from 1992 (and let us not
> forget that even in 1992 the 020 was old, 040's were available in 1992).
Not my fault component prices are huge, I support Amiga commerce when I can.
> So many Amiga users want this or that - and why shouldn't they want it?
> It is available under Windows and more or less necessary if you have to
> live along with Windows users (and today we have to live among Windows
> users), but still they don't bother upgrading their equipment or
> registering the software. Sad, oh so sad.
Alot of features are not horribly CPU dependant though. I live on my Amiga
though, so I can't be certain about the full range of functionality the rest
of the world boasts.
Don't tell me we Amigans can't have a psychotic talking paperclip jump out at
us when we start our text editors if we want one.
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