SF-LOVERS Digest Tuesday, 12 Jan 1993 Volume 18 : Issue 24 Today's Topics: Books - Clarke & Lackey & McCaffrey & Meluch & Robinson (4 msgs) & Simmons (3 msgs) & Zelazny (3 msgs) & Death Gate Cycle (2 msgs) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 9 Jan 93 22:14:49 GMT From: mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Charles B. Owen) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Rama II questions mrizzo@allwedo.UUCP (Mike Rizzo) writes: >I just finished RAMA II. It wasn't that good after all. I kept hoping it >would come together; that the original awe-inspiring conception which >peered through now and then would, in the end, win out over the PC and >word count boosters. Almost to the end it could have. Sadly, it didn't. > >It would be easy to say that the good parts were obviously Clarke and the >bad parts were done by Lee. But can anyone actually say or make an >educated guess? For example, is there a consensus that the silly dream >sequences and mystical episodes were done by Lee? And did Clarke lend >little more that his name to this book? > >Based on RAMA II, I think I will pass on the Garden of Rama. Will I be >missing anything? Gardens of Rama is definately worth reading. It will be nearly the end of the book before you see it, but the "silly" dream sequences have a real purpose that is explained and makes a lot of sense. If I could comment on a problem with these books it is that they appear to have been written together as one huge novel, then broken up. I would prefer that each novel not leave dozens of questions for the next novel, though I imagine that is a very good sales technique. Has anyone ready Rama Revealed yet? I have not been able to get a copy. That is the last book in the "trilogy". Charles B. Owen Western Illinois University 1002 E. Murray Macomb, IL 61455 mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 23:07:08 GMT From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Lackey and Lisle: When the Bough Breaks I suppose I keep trying, long past the point where I should know better, because I so enjoy Lackey's solo efforts. (Like the efforts of her latest coauthor, Piers Anthony, they're a guilty pleasure.) Past experience, however, shows that Lackey+junior_coauthor = coauthor and, she doesn't have very good taste in junior coauthors. The first "Serrated Edge" novel wasn't bad, actually. (I guess you have to do a bit more when launching a series, particularly if you have to live with the coauthor.) The second was trash. "When the Bough Breaks" is third and not quite as good as the second. "Serrated Edge" isn't really about Elves; it's about child abuse. The mix is approximately half a pot of plot to a quarter of a pot of characterization to one pot of message. The characters, Elf and Human alike, are caricatures. The reading list (of course there's a reading list) includes the SE books. It's not so much that the message gets in the way of the story, as that the importance of the message seems to have made the authors forget that they were also supposed to be writing a novel. Someone please let me know if Holly Lisle's single-author books are any good. This book hasn't inspired me to find out the hard way. Dani Zweig dani@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jan 93 15:26:21 GMT From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Questions about Pern, _Rescue_Flight_ I have a few questions about Pern; since I have class in 10 minutes I'll have to make this fast. First, in the latest Science-Fiction Book Club catalog/pamphlet, I noticed a new Pern novella, called _Rescue_Flight_, taking place 49 years after _Dragonsdawn_. Since it's only $7.00 and I'm a Pern fanatic, I'm ordering it. I really hope it explains how Pern could remain lost for thousands of years after colonization. I really do hope Anne McCaffrey doesn't resort to a "quarantine." That idea is so OLD... Okay. The questions: A dragon's tissue is different from ours. For example, they have copper-based blood while we have iron-based blood. Fire lizards, wherries, whers, and whersports presumably have the same blood types. So, how can dragons (with their copper-based blood) eat herdbeasts (with their presumably iron-based blood), and how can humans eat whersports and wherries? 'Twould seem to me to be a lot of incompatibility there. Another thing: it should be possible, by taking it in steps, to go BETWEEN time thousands of years back, to when the colonists first landed, etc. After all, Jaxom went back several hundred years in _All_the_Weyrs_of_Pern_ ... why couldn't some other dragonrider do it? Be kind of interesting to see... And that's all I have time for... Chris Meadows CHM173S@SMSVMA CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jan 93 00:07:08 GMT From: ben@st-canard.spc.edu (Ben Cohen) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: R.M. Meluch: Recommended Books? meltsner@crd.ge.com (Kenneth J. Meltsner) writes: >noir@netcom.com (Noel Ang) writes: >>I've just finished reading _The_Queen's_Squadron_, by Rebecca Meluch, and >>was wondering if anyone would recommend any of her previous works. I've >>read one previous work of hers, _War_Birds_, and I find both of these >>books quite good. I've heard mention of five other novels from her, >>_Wind_Dancers_, _Wind_child_, _Jerusalem_Fire, _Sovereign_, and >>_Chicago_Red_. Are all of these Science Fiction? Any recommendations >>are appreciated. [Just to add my $0.02, having read all of her books and feeling quite strongly about them...] >They're all SF. Rebecca Meluch is a fine writer, but I felt _Chicago Red_ >was one of her weakest. I particularly enjoyed the _Wind_ books. Agreed. During _CR_, I kept getting the feeling that she really wanted to write another book but just never got around to it. >For those of you who haven't read _War Birds_, please give it a shot. >It's the most intelligently written military SF book I've seen for a long >time. My wife, no fan at all of most military SF, was quite impressed >with the depth of characterization and excellent storytelling. Agreed, again. _WB_ is a _very_ thoughtful book about the military, space warfare and the _people_ who wind up in such situations. [It's been a while since I read it - probably ought to go back and re-read it...] I have to say though, that her "2nd round" of books, being _Jerusalem Fire_ and _Sovereign_ are her (to date) best work, with _JF_ being the best of them all. Her strongest point is that she has _excellent_ characters and really gives you the feeling of being able to get into their heads. [I have yet to meet anyone who reads JF and can't step into Alihad's (?sp) head and see exactly what he's seeing and feeling.] I'd suggest running right out and finding JF and Sovereign. They may be a bit hard to find (I know that I rarely see them on the shelves), but they're worth the hardship to acquire them. They're a joy to read, being both well- written and well-_crafted_. >Meluch is another writer on my short list of "automatic must-reads." Speaking of which, does anyone know when her next book is due out? It's been a while so there should be another one due out shortly. [Shouldn't there? :-)] Ben Cohen St. Peter's College Jersey City, NJ USA ben@st.canard.spc.edu ...!rutgers!spcvxb!ben ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jan 93 18:37:36 GMT From: jhildebr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Hildebrand) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: KSRobinson _Red Mars_... When? al@iris.claremont.edu writes: >Did I get the color right? I knew it was either red, green, or blue. >Anyway, if you know when it is due to be released or have seen a copy, let >me know. Mr. Tor executive? Well it's from Bantam, not Tor. Anyway, it's out. (This one is _Red Mars_ btw.) I bought it from an independent bookstore on the East Coast on Wednesday just after they had put it on the shelves. So it may take a week or so to get to all the bookstores. (Chain stores are slower about getting new books on the shelves.) Finished the book last night. It's a generally strong book, although I had few minor quibbles with it which place it lower in my opinions than _Pacific Edge_, but then again that's true of almost every book. :) Look for a review soon. Short version is that it's good and worth buying but it falls just short of being spectacular. Now the problem is that I'm going to have to wait a long time for _Green Mars_. Oh well. Jeff Hildebrand hildebra@math.wisc.edu ------------------------------ Date: 9 Jan 93 23:37:44 GMT From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Simmons' Shrike (spoilers) On a related topic (I think): I recently read Kim S. Robinson's _Icehenge_. In this book, one of the characters has the nickname "Shrike". (It's the archaeologist's politician friend/lover.) Is this a veiled reference to Simmon's Shrike, or does this name have some other meanings that I'm missing? Peter Cash cash@convex.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 14:15:51 GMT From: louzon@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Louzon ronald g) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: KSRobinson _Red Mars_... When? Now back to that RED MARS book, do I read it now or wait? Some decisions in life are so difficult!! ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jan 93 15:41:36 GMT From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: KSRobinson _Red Mars_... When? louzon@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Louzon Ronald G) writes: > Now back to that RED MARS book, do I read it now or wait? Some decisions > in life are so difficult!! A full review will follow eventually, but I would say you could read it now. While there's clearly room for more after the end, I think RED MARS stands sufficiently on its own. (Of course, I think KSR's stuff is the bee's knees, so this is only MHO.) (BTW, I assume the novella GREEN MARS (from Tor Double #1) will be incorporated into the series.) Evelyn C. Leeper +1 908 957 2070 att!mtgzy!ecl ecl@mtgzy.att.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 20:01:47 GMT From: dayne@byron.u.washington.edu (Dayne Miller) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Acronyms in _Hyperion_ In Dan Simmons' books _Hyperion_ and _Fall of Hyperion_, what do the acronyms FORCE and ARN stand for? I may have just missed the reference, or Simmons may just not have ever said. If there aren't any definitive answers, how about some reasonable speculation? (For those of you unfamiliar with the books, FORCE is the military of Hegemony space, and includes FORCE:space, FORCE:ground, FORCE:sea, and FORCE:Marines. ARN refers to a technique of genetic sculpting; ARNists gave one character, Martin Silenus, the appearance of a satyr, and several references were made to extinct species that have of have not been ARNied back into existence.) Just wondering... dayne@byron.u.washington.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 21:46:38 GMT From: jvessey@husc10.harvard.edu (Jonathan Vessey) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Acronyms in _Hyperion_ On a somewhat related note (though one with an answer that's probably easy to come up with), what exactly was the Hegira? I think I missed were they explained it, but it seemed an important historical event. Forgive me if it's really obvious, but I read the books at 2 am - 4 am and sort of fogged out some of the lesser details at times. Thanks for any answers. Jon Vessey jvessey@husc.harvard.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 22:48:22 GMT From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Acronyms in _Hyperion_ jvessey@husc10.harvard.edu (Jonathan Vessey) writes: >On a somewhat related note (though one with an answer that's probably easy >to come up with), what exactly was the Hegira? I think I missed were they >explained it, but it seemed an important historical event. Forgive me if >it's really obvious, but I read the books at 2 am - 4 am and sort of >fogged out some of the lesser details at times. Thanks for any answers. The Hegira was the human departure from Earth and colonization of the planets that became the WorldWeb. This was triggered by the Kiev Team's creation of a runaway black hole which fell to the Earth's core and began slowly destroying the planet. Note that the Hegira was accomplished _before_ farcasters were developed. Ramez Naam naam@terra.cecer.army.mil ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 07:59:30 GMT From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Dilvish: Zelazny's other Fantasy dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes: >qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup): >>I am getting curious. Could somebody please tell me where I can find >>these stories? Are they novels or short stories? > >"Dilvish, the Damned" and "The Changing Land", two of Zelazny's lesser >efforts, both books out of print (I think) but not hard to find. Sometimes one just has to be lucky. This weekend I went around to the bookstore again, and guess what? They had a copy of 'The Changing Land' on the shelves! Fourth printing (1988), and the 15'th copy they have sold since 1984. Now I just have to find 'Dilvish, the Damned'. 'The Changing Land' does seem to be of a more humouristic bent than the Elric books. Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup Inst. of Scientific Computation ETH, Zuerich Switzerland qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 11:55:21 GMT From: alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Dilvish: Zelazny's other Fantasy kieron@root.co.uk (Kieron Drake) writes: >how about some real questions? Did anyone notice the dedication to William >Hope Hodgson (among others) and the fact that one of the characters had >that name as well? What did he steal from Hodgson? Where did the Hounds >of Thundalos come from? Has anyone else slogged *all* of the way through >"House on the Borderland"? Yes; actually I quite liked it. Zelazny borrowed quite a bit from it in "The Changing Land" - the House itself, the pig-things, the trip through time, the empty world of the distant future, the gods around the Arena... The "Hounds of Thandalos" in TCL are based on Frank Belknap Long's story "The Hounds of Tindalos" (note spelling) (it's in Volume 1 of "Tales of the Cthulhu Mythos", edited by August Derleth, which I suspect is long since out of print, alas). Ross Smith Wanganui, NZ alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jan 93 13:34:09 GMT From: Alexandra_Haropulos.ADFMcLean_CSD@xerox.com Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Zelazny I must agree that MHO agrees with Charles Roten, except that I believe that Zelazny's sellout dates to CREATURES OF LIGHT AND DARKNESS, which was the succeeding book to LORD OF LIGHT (which was the Hugo winner in its year and a great book). I met him at the '73 Worldcon, and was sort of examining him to determine what had turned a major talent into an okay writer. It appeared to me that his falloff occurred about the time his first child was born. Some other creative force had been satisfied, I guess. Alex H. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 08:52:25 GMT From: emeu09@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mech Eng Student) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: The "Death Gate" Cycle I was wondering if there was anyone else out there who is reading the Death Gate cycle by the most variable of authors Weis and Hickman. If so could you add your opinions to these questions. Thanks in advance. 1) What is the dog? The only person who doesn't know seems to be Haplo. My guess is that it is a representation of Haplo's "soft" emotions. 2) Who is Zifnab (Fizban, Paladine, whatever) REALLY and what's he doing here? 3) Where did the dragons come from? 4) Is Alfred really the Serpent Mage? I hope this stirs up some interest as, whilst it is only just over half complete the books so far show many interesting ideas. I hope these are followed up in the last three books (Boy is Samah in for a surprise!) Rod ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 93 09:54:05 GMT From: jonathan@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Mr J J Trevor) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: The "Death Gate" Cycle emeu09@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mech Eng Student) writes: > I was wondering if there was anyone else out there who is reading the >Death Gate cycle by the most variable of authors Weis and Hickman. If so >could you add your opinions to these questions. Thanks in advance. > >1) What is the dog? The only person who doesn't know seems to be Haplo. > My guess is that it is a representation of Haplo's "soft" emotions. Don't know yet. Maybe. >2) Who is Zifnab (Fizban, Paladine, whatever) REALLY and what's he doing > here? > >3) Where did the dragons come from? > >4) Is Alfred really the Serpent Mage? I think that questions two and four are related. Please bear in mind Ive only read up to and including Firesea and not Serpent Mage. However, at the end of the second book it turns out that Zifnab (Fizban as stated above hahaha) was the FAMILIAR to the dragon and not the other way around as you may have expected. Im which case surely the Serpent mage is the dragon (a kind of "serpent") who performs magic through Zifnab. Anyway, this may be completely turned on its head by Serpent Mage!!! Jonathan Department of Computing Lancaster University Lancaster, Lancs., U.K. jonathan@comp.lancs.ac.uk ------------------------------ End of SF-LOVERS Digest ***********************