/ \ / / - _--__| / | | / \ ________--__- O --- ____ | | \ \ / \ =======/-/=======| |) O --- ___ \ | / / ======/-/=====================| |) O--- ___ | / =====/-/===================================| |) O--- ___ ====/-/================================================| |) -__ ___/_/ _|_ | _ ___ ___ __|__ _ \__ __ \ ___\_\\-_ | |_ / \ | ) __ | | | | / \ | | \ \\ \\\\\\\\\-_ \_/ | \ |-- |--< / \ | \_/ \_/ _ |\ \ | | \__ | \ \__/ | ____ \ o \/\ |_\ /\| \_ |___/ ____---\\\\\\| \ \ \ \ \_ /\| \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\--- \_ \ \ \ _/\/ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\------ \_ \ __-\\\/ ---\\\\\\\- Issue #294 February 23, 1993 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To post: Subscriptions, deletions, requests: bass@uwplatt.edu bass-request@uwplatt.edu (Bitnet: bass@uwplatt.bitnet) (Bitnet: bass-request@uwplatt.bitnet) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Today's topics: Ritchie speaks! EMG pickups RE: Octaves Initiation Into The TBL'ers RE: #291, EH Microsynth RE: #293, getting sounds Peavey 1516 and Hartke 3500 RE: Good music books Mystery Townsend bassist re "Fantom Power" More on Pino Palladino's sound RE: rehearsal through headphones RE: Steve Harris's Sound ---------------------------------------------------------- Administrative notes: Well, it will be another big mail night tonight. Two issues (one w/ a little bit o' tab) and two TBL Lessons! We'll be all caught up at this end (except for a bit of admin mail). Hope you enjoy all the material! Erik ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Feb 1993 18:03:18 EST From: RWilli04 Subject: Ritchie speaks! Dear Gentle Readers (all others skip ahead) If any of you are planning to come down to Florida for spring break, I was just in Ft.Lauderal Beach and found it to be quite nice. The sand is nicer than Daytona, its warmer, the boats, er yatchs are bigger, the girls are cuter (ok, the guys too). Just bring lots-o-money. The gigs down here have been few and far in between. Seems the DJs and VJs have been getting a lot of work lately, though. I don't feel particularly threatened by the DJ's, after all, I think someone would hire a live band instead if they could afford it, no? I saw a band yesterday at a wedding showcase called Secret Agent Band. The band is a five piece. however the keyboards, bass, and drums are all sequenced, and sounds like it. Dig this, these cats get $2000-$3000 per gig! I really had to scratch my head over that one. Do people really pay those kind of bucks for a half-live, band-on-a-disk performances? Anybody relate to this? Concerning the NAMM "video", I'm still waiting on some video hardware I ordered a couple of weeks ago, so be patient. I have the letters from those of you that were interested, so don't think I forgot you. Just think of the wait as foreplay :) Regards to Joe, Oz, Mike and the rest. My condolences to Christine Murdza. It really rips at your insides when somebody steals something you've worked hard for. A bass is a very personal thing, and to think somebody else is tossing it in a trunk or that its sitting in some pawn shop is quite heart wrenching. ("take my wife, my dog, my house, just leave the bass"). Everyone mind your register, and have a good week! Ritchie Williams ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 23:33:59 -0800 From: "Geoffrey L. Gould" Subject: EMG pickups I always get asked about EMG's vs. Bartolini's, a no-win proposition. Here's my answer: I just say the good side and bad side of each as perceived by players. People like EMG's cuz they're clean and bright, and have a lot of presence. People like Bartolini's cuz they're warm and have a solid bottom People don't like EMG's cuz they're thin and hollow People don't like Bartolini's cuz they're muddy My apologies for the use of 'cuz.' As far as EMG's sounding alike, check out the new DC pickup, an 18-volt monster currently available only on our M92 bass, but coming soon to other basses and stores near you. Definitely different. Geoff Gould Modulus Graphite ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 10:31:03 +0100 From: mattjo@isy.liu.se Subject: RE: Octaves When I was in Japan before X-mas (oh, youve heard that one before .. ;) ) I bought a nice thing apart from the toy bass. I bought a digital BOSS octav-divider/delay stomp box. I think it is model OC-2, and it has octav down, and UP and ever tone in between. The desired tone can be tuned with a knob, and a special tuner output helps (Ok, I havent tested it cause a minor third doesnt sound good on the low E string...) A comment on the little thing: * Octave down sounds good, but the octave up sound definitely Donald Duck. * The delay sounds nice and can be used to play with yourself (ooops ...) /Mattias Johannesson ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:09:11 GMT From: Kevin Thomas Subject: Initiation Into The TBL'ers Big Salutations from the land of Haggis and Kilts! As this is my first posting to "The Bottom Line" let me introduce myself and my gear, influences and pet hates. Heavy Stuff:- 1 Laney DP150 Amp Head (good but needs more power!) 1 Laney DPC 4*10" Cabinet (beatiful high's) 1 Peavey 2*15" Cabinet (grumbling low's) Not So Heavy Stuff:- 1 Nady Wireless reciever/transciever (Ok! so people say they're naff) 1 Black Musicman Stingray (This baby goes to bed with me it's heaven with four strings!!) hopefully soon:- 1 Black Musicman Fretless Stingray Effects:- 1 BOSS Chorus 1 BOSS Phaser (for those Pink Floyd or Hawkwind covers!) 2 BOSS Heavy Metal Pedals (yes folks count 'em suckers!!!) Inspirations:- Bootsy Collins, Flea, Sting, Bill Gould, Stanley Clark, Stu Ham, any jazzy double bass players, Lemmy, Steve Harris (very early influences he told me in a vision to throw down that plectrum and pick up those fingers and pluck, slap & pop). I've probably left out so many people!! Pet Hates:- Guitarists that pose and let's face it that's more often than not!! System administrators that log you off when you trying to post to TBL!! Anchovies, Gherkins, and all the other rubbish that MacDonalds put on their Hamburgers!!!! Well ta-ra for now and hope to exchange views with you soon.... Kevin Thomas ########################################### # Bass Player For Glasgow Band - CRISIS # ########################################### ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 05:03:31 PST From: 23-Feb-1993 0753 Subject: RE: #291, EH Microsynth In #291, Dragon sez: >Good old flatwounds-and-a-thumb me is considering buying an effect >(gasp!). What I'm looking at is something called an Electro-Harmonix >Mini-Synth (Yeah; I know it's probably not in production, but you've >got to consider whose posting this). I sometimes sit in with a guitar- >who plays rhythm only, and any soloing that is done gets done by me. >I've seen tons of effects that give you the octave below the one you're >playing, but this mini-synth is the only one I've seen that has an >"octave-up" option that would put my little twiddly bits up into the >guitar range. Anybody have any experience with one of these? Yup, I used to own one. The full name is either the Micro Synthesizer or Bass Micro Synthesizer depending on which unit you're looking at. The only difference is that the filter in the Bass model is tuned an octave lower. The thing is not really a synth, it's really a multi-effect unit with the following parts: 1. octave divider 2. octave multiplier 3. square wave generator 4. attack delay 5. resonant filter How it works is the input signal is fed through sections 1, 2 and 3 the outputs of which you can mix together with the clean signal to create something sounding kind of like detuned oscillators on a synth. Then it passes through 4, to give slower attacks ("bowing") when desired and into 5, a envelope-following resonant filter. You can use the sections separately, so it's like having a Boss Octaver, a volume pedal and a Mutron III in one box. Used together, you can create some synth like effects. Tracking is lousy. Play too fast and the attack delay and filter get confused. The octave voices don't like to see more than one note at a time, you get some awful grunge that way. Both octave sections are fuzzy sounding. Using the octave up and octave down without the fundamental signal is a cool effect, though. The filter section can approximate the Mutron sounds everybody is clamoring for these days. The weirdest part is the square wave generator, which sounds like a fuzz tone with no sustain! That's because it doesn't use a gain increase to get the sound. Makes for a *very* controllable fuzz. I sold mine a few years back as I wasn't using it at all. Overall, if the things it does are what you're looking for, it's a good box. If you're playing roots music (like me) it's useless. Brand new they sold for $300 list, I have no idea what they go for now, since EH prices are wildly up and down as some of the boxes have become collectibles. Brian Rost rost@tecrus.enet.dec.com 508-568-6115 DEC, Hudson, MA ******************************************************************************* "Have you noticed how the hole in the ozone layer has grown progressively larger since rap got popular?" -Anonymous ******************************************************************************* ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 05:58:57 PST From: 23-Feb-1993 0819 Subject: RE: #293, getting sounds In the last two issues, some people werre asking about getting sounds they've heard on records (CDs?), namely Steve Harris of Iron Maiden, Michael Manring and Pino Palladino. I'm going to add my *opinion*, I'm curious to hear what other people have to say about this issue. This is an issue I struggled with for years before I came to the following conclusion: it's impossible to duplicate a recorded sound on stage without a ton of gear (compressors, EQ, exciters, delay units, etc.). Why? Recorded sound is actually an illusion. Many people talk about going to shows where it sounds "just like the record". I find that pretty ridiculous. Most live shows sound *nothing* like the record. The average rock show has the drums way too loud, the bass huge but with indistinct pitch, etc. Listening to live tapes off of radio shows like King Biscuit bear me out on this one. I gave up trying to sound like records and concentrated on listening to other bassists live and striving for *that* sound. I did upgrade both my basses and amplifiers to get what I wanted but many in here would find my amp setup unusable, either a Fender Bassman head or an AMP head running 1-12" EVM or 1-15" EVM. That's it, none of the usual add-ons that many people seem to like to use. The biggest thing here is the *speakers*, since I've been using that Fender for fifteen years now but through some other cabs I used to own the tone was nowhere near what I get from the EVMs. Most bassists these days record direct to the board. Ever been into a pro studio and done this? I have and the big surprise is that the sound you hear out of the monitors doesn't bear much resemblance to what's coming out of your amp. In general, it's way better. Now why should this be? Well, your amp actually gets in the way of the bass's signal in that it doesn't have infinitely wide (and flat) response, nor does your cabinet(s). Some bassists also mix a direct sound with a miked amp (I'll bet Harris does this) and so they get the clarity of the direct sound plus some grunt from the amp together. When recording on my four-track at home, I mike my cab and use no compression and EQ yet get a sound that I really like on tape, and again it doesn't sound much like the cab in a real room, it's better...fatter, punchier, etc. (By comparison, my direct sound is nowhere near as good, but then the mike preamps in my four-track are junk compared to what's in your average studio console or something like a Demeter or Massenburg tube mike preamp...these things are heavenly). Almost all recorded bass is compressed somewhat. Slap and pop is *heavily* compressed, otherwise it would blow your speakers out. Compression plus some subtle EQ on a direct signal accounts for about 90% of what you hear in contemporary recordings. I play in a church choir and after using a bass amp for a few weeks, the organist suggested I just plug into the organ amp system. This consists of a Tascam board into an old tube hi-fi amp (maybe 30-40 watts) and a *huge* old organ speaker cab. Actually, a setup very similar to the studio situation! Through this rig I get the kind of humungous fretless sound that many would drool over. Some specific things that people wanted: 1. "thump" on a note: I'm not sure exactly what you're hearing but if the bass is compressed, the attack on the notes often gets a thumping or clicking sound if the attack time of the compressor is set extremely low. Since Harris uses a Precision, shut off your bridge pickup if you have one, this will thicken up the sound. 2. "growl" on fretless basses: This is largely an EQ issue. Both Manring and Palladino use Music Man fretlesses (Manring also uses some other brands) and that bass has a characteristic sound, just as any bass does. The pickup on a Music Man is mounted close to the bridge and I'd recommend using the bridge pickup if your bass has one to help get this sound. The buzzing, growling sound is in the 800-1200 Hz range. Try cranking some EQ in that area and see if it helps at all. I'm sure some (many?) will disagree with me, curious to hear som eother opinions. Brian Rost rost@tecrus.enet.dec.com 508-568-6115 DEC, Hudson, MA ******************************************************************************* "Have you noticed how the hole in the ozone layer has grown progressively larger since rap got popular?" -Anonymous ******************************************************************************* ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 08:21:19 CST From: David Perales Subject: Peavey 1516 and Hartke 3500 Howdy folks, I have a Hartke 3500 head with two output jacks each marked 8ohm. I have been looking at a Peavey 1516 cabinet with two input jacks and marked for a total of 4ohm. My question is - will this cabinet work with my Hartke head? Is each one of these input jacks on the back of the Peavey cabinet 8ohm? What's the deal? I like the Peavey cabinet, but I don't want to blow up the Hartke 3500. Thanx - David =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ David Perales, CSP InterNet: dperales@trinity.edu Senior Programmer/Analyst Phone: (210) 736-7401 Trinity University Computing Center 715 Stadium Drive, Box 50 San Antonio, Texas 78212 ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 14:41 GMT From: "William C. Ryan" <0003647569@mcimail.com> Subject: RE: Good music books Mike- You asked for places which sell higher-quality sheet music/transcriptions. There are probably better places, but you might try: HARRIS MUSIC CO. Hours: 12260 WILKINS AVE M & Th 0900-2000 ROCKVILLE, MD 20852 T W F 0900-1800 (800)482-0002 Sat 1000-1600 (301)770-1950 FAX(301)816-0319 Though the selection (rock/blues section) was not overwhelming, they had some good stuff: QUEEN Greatest Hits II, $35 - Full Orchestration (Voice, Backing Vocals, Gtr1, Gtr 2, Bass, Drum), including TAB for BASS & Guitars. QUEEN Classic Queen, $40 - Same as above. RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS Blood Sugar, $25 - Guitar section in front, Bass section in back. LED ZEP - Huge 2 Volume Set $75 - It was taped up, so I couldn't tell how many different voicings were transcribed. Other BASS only books: Stevie Ray Vaughn (25 songs for $20 - a hell of a lot of sixteenth notes and triplets), Best of Clapton, Best of U2. They do take phone orders. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 10:26:00 EST From: Craig Hicks Subject: Mystery Townsend bassist In TBL #293, Tania M Davis writes: >For a while I've been trying to get a certain fretless sound >i.e. that voicy growlcharacteristic of such players as Pino Palladino, >Michael Manring, the bassist on Pete Townshend's White City album >("Give Blood", in particular). It's a real compressed, muffled sound >that seems to be almost coaxed out of the instrument. Tania, the bassist on White City is . . . Pino Palladino! I've loved this guy's playing ever since I heard him on some live versions of songs from Gary Numan's "I, Assassin" album (the song "Music for Chameleons" has one of the best fretless bass parts on disk, IMHO). How does Pino get his sound? Well, according to an interview in Bass Player mag, he doesn't. He arrives at the studio with bass in hand and tells the recording engineer to get to work ("How do I get my sound? I don't -- that's *your* job!). As I recall he said he pretty much sets the controls on the bass at the mid-point, balancing sound from both pickups. The rest is studio magic (and great playing!). -- Craig ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 10:33:22 EST From: bobdavis@viewlogic.com Subject: re "Fantom Power" (followup to) >Date: Tue, 16 Feb 93 10:41:10 +0100 >From: mattjo@isy.liu.se Phantom power is a great idea to avoid batteries or external power in devices which drive a balanced line. That's why it is used with condensor mics and some active direct boxes. Balanced lines from instruments are also a great idea to avoid interference via the cable, which is a frequent problem with normal instrument cables. I've always wondered why these were not used. It's really necessary to change to a balanced line AND add phantom power at the same time, or one could use a hokey arranagement like putting power on the ring of a tip-ring-sleave plug, leaving unbalanced instrument signal on the tip and sleave being ground. The latter seams rather silly; it does get around the battery but obviously doesn't provide balanced operation. Doing the real balanced and phantom deal would allow you to plug into any board with phantom power and be happening, but it would also require changes to any bass gear you use or consistent use of a balanced->unbalanced box which also supplies the phantom power. Note that normal mixing boards supply +48v phantom power, which is very hot compared to the typical 9v battery in the instrument. Analog Devices/PMI makes two devices which would greatly facilitate this project, and which are known to work extremely well: SSM-2142 balanced line driver (in instrument) and SSM-2141 line receiver (in head). Further details can be discussed offline or whe'll have to call TBL "The Gear Hacks". ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 8:56:45 MST From: Erik Habbinga Subject: More on Pino Palladino's sound After a quick listen to "Give Blood" (and a little sleep after last night's digest editing festival :) ) I'm pretty sure that I hear an Octaver on most of Pino's lines. This gives him that sound that I believe Tania is looking for. The effect doubles what he is playing, but an octave lower. You can also hear it on Guy Pratt's solo on "Money", from Pink Fld's last live album (distant sound of thunder?) Erik [ Nope, Erik, it's "Delicate Sound of Thunder". Never thought I'd get the chance to break into one of my own posts! : bass-mgr ] ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 11:25:40 -0500 (EST) From: CUNNINGHAM@B.PSC.EDU Subject: RE: rehearsal through headphones Although I don't rehearse using headphones, (my band members live hundreds of miles away from each other, we rehearse live on stage), it's kind of interesting that you do this. I own and operate a recording studio and often have to have the talent wear headphones to record when they're really not comfortable with it. Practicing this way will give you a great head start in the studio. In most situations, bands are used to to playing in a small room, (basement or garage) and get plenty of each other's sound directly. Then the studio splits them up by 40', windows, walls, and phones, and they all stand around wandering why they don't record get that "natural" feeling in their playing. As an added pre-studio rehearsal, you might try running long headphone cords to different rooms where you don't get each others direct sound and possibly can't see each other. If you can stay together in this harshest situation, then you're ready to record. This also recreates the over-dub process where you're not really playing with anyone. pUNK - Sandoz - Pittsburgh Sound Productions ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 12:38:11 EST From: rrathgeb@ultrix.ramapo.edu Subject: RE: Steve Harris's Sound Hello, I'll try to shed a little light on the inquiry of the sound Steve Harris gets. He's been one of my influences and the info I'm relating came mostly from the article on him a few issues ago in BP. He plays Fender Precisions exclusively. He owns some originals and some new Japanese custom painted ones. He plays roundwounds only and I believe there GHS Boomers or Rotosounds. Don't quote me on that. He achieves his strong attack by striking the strings with his index and middle finger in sucession while causing the strings to "slap" against the end of the fretboard creating a strong but "twangy" sound. He plays with two fingers only although it looks like three. You need low action to really get a good "twang" of the fretboard. When I saw Maiden a couple of years ago, he was playing through numerous SVT stacks and used no effects. The only gripe I had about his live playing was that he didn't play a quarter of the fills that he does on the albums. I learned Two Minutes Too Midnight which is chock full of fun runs and speedy melodies but he played none of them when I saw him. I was dissappointed but I know there are other reasons for doing that and he is surely not alone in doing that. Oh well........ Hopefully this will answer some of the questions. Latr, _ROB_ ---------------------------------------------------------- Anonymous ftp access for back issues, etc.: kappa.rice.edu (128.42.4.7) in the /pub/bass directory (Username is 'anonymous', password is your e-mail address. Try typing 'help' for more info once logged in.) _The Bottom Line_ is a digest dedicated to the art of playing electric and acoustic bass. It is distributed on a basis that coincides with the amount of material received, from the University of Wisconsin - Platteville, USA; Kevin Tipple, Erik Habbinga, editors Copyright _The Bottom Line_, 1993 The contents of _The Bottom Line_ are solely the opinions and comments of the individual authors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the authors' managements or the digest management. The editors do not assume responsibility for copyright infringement of submitted material. *************************** End of The Bottom Line #294 ***************************