Does the U.S. Treasury Department ever fine anyone for going
to Cuba? The common misconception is that the U. S. Office
of Foreign Assets Control, OFAC, overlooks all violations of
the economic embargo of Cuba.
-
Some individual U.S. citizens and a few companies have found
themselves in the uncomfortable postion of learning that
OFAC does levy fines and other penalties.
-
The Treasury Department announced on April 15 that the
fashion magazine Harper's Bazaar paid a $31,000 fine to
settle allegations that the magazine violated the economic
embargo against Cuba.
-
The alleged violations were the result of a photo shoot on
the island last year. Treasury said that Harper's paid for
meals, lodging, airfare, and other expenses such as visas,
exit fees, and lodging for ten participants on the photo
shoot.
-
Two Miami companies paid fines to settle allegations against
them of violating the embargo. Wilson Internatinl Services
paid $61,000 for record keeping violations, and C&T Charters
paid $125,000 for providing charter flights between Nassau
and Havana without a license from Treasury.
-
Individual U.S. citizens have felt the sting from OFAC and
have dealt with or are currently negotiating with OFAC over
charges of having gone to Cuba. A bass fisherman from Texas
is one who has faced the wrath of OFAC and has even been
written up in the Cuban newspaper Granma.
-
Another individual who is from the southeast claims to have
bought Cuban cigars in Nassau and attempted to return to the
U.S. with them. The cigars were confiscated, and he is
currently faced with charges from OFAC that he illegally
travelled to Cuba.
-
The exact number of individual U.S. citizens who have paid
fines for going to cuba is unknown. The number who are
currently facing charges is also unavailable. Those numbers
are presently being sought in the discovery process for some
active cases.
-
Many U.S. citizens have gone to Cuba without being fined or
prosecuted. This fact does not mean that everyone who does
go is able to do so unscathed.
-
Buen vieja!
[There are 20 posts - the latest was added on Sun 9 May, 20:37]
Use the form at the end of this page to add your own post.
Topics
| Thorn Tree
| Home
Has any US individual ever been fined for visiting Cuba? I
think not. The reason there are no figures is that there
aren't any. No private individual who has visited Cuba as a
tourist has ever been fined. It is a basic human right (yes,
even for Americans) for nationals to visit any country they
wish to (if the host country lets them in). If an American
was fined he could appeal to the highest court in the land
and win, gaining publicty in the process, and cause
thousands of Americans to flock to Cuba. My advice; DON'T
believe the government hype. Travel to Cuba, and don't worry
about a thing.
There is enough you don't know Bob to make another world.
Ask Dan Snow of Texas if anyone has ever been fined for
going to Cuba. Do a search on his situation. You tell the
treasury department that it is a basic human right. Dream on
dodo.
Give the gov't the finger Bob. If you have been to cuba send
the gov't a copy of your passport and tell them to screw
themselves. You can go where you want to. Show them who's
boss. Tell us more about what a citizen can do.
Where does bob get off spouting his opinion as fact and
questioning other people? I wonder if he has been to Cuba. I
wonder if he has a real email address. I wonder if he will
openly challenge the government and give them information
that he has gone to Cuba. Bob sounds like the guy who was
thrown out of a nightclub with his buddy and stoody by and
watched as a 280 pound bouncer beat the shit out of his
buddy. A mile down the road on the way to the hospital he
turns to his buddy and says, I'd a beat the shit outta him
would he a done that to me!!! Tell us again about the basic
human rights bob. Then read the government regulations and
tell us what the government can't do.
Jose & Frank. Where's your evidence guy's??? Don Snow, what
was he fined for then? Not for being a tourist and spending
money in Cuba, that's for sure. If you're going to shoot
your mouths off let's hear your evidence and not just hear
hearsay. Know what I mean? - maybe not, if you're of the
hard of thinking. Actually Frank, I have been to Cuba twice,
the first time for 5 months. By the way, my government is
not that of the USA, but that's not really important. What
is important, even in the land of the so called 'free', is
that it is a basic human right of any citizen to travel to
whichever country he wishes to. If you want to talk about
Cuban citizens not being able to travel out of Cuba, we may
be able to have an argument. But US citizens??.....check
your constitution, UN statement on Human Rights etc. It's
all a big propaganda scam, and you two have been hoodwinked.
I challenge you to present me with evidence of an American
citizen who has been fined for visiting Cuba as a tourist
and spending money there. Let's hear it...
'The exact number of individual U.S. citizens who have paid
fines for going to cuba is unknown. The number who are
currently facing charges is also unavailable.'
The exact numbers are zero guys. That's why they're
unavailable. Get it??
Only US businessmen doing trade with Cuba have been fined.
It is illegal to import Cuban cigars to US. That is it.
'The exact number of individual U.S. citizens who have paid
fines for going to cuba is unknown. The number who are
currently facing charges is also unavailable.'
The exact numbers are zero guys. That's why they're
unavailable. Get it??
Only US businessmen doing trade with Cuba have been fined.
It is illegal to import Cuban cigars to US. That is it.
Fuck the USA and the fucking goverment. period.
I could be one of those referred to in the post by "Who?"
that is facing a fine for going to Cuba. Bob says, "No
private individual who has visited Cuba as a tourist has
ever been fined." He later says, "...my government is not
that of the USA, but that's not really important."
It is interesting that a person who suggests that he is not
a citizen of the USA finds himself in a position inwhich he
attempts to tell citizens what the U.S. government is able
to do and not do.
I have no intention of debating facts with a foreigner's
opinions of what the U.S. government can do. I am currently
faced with a fine because the U.S. government thinks that I
have been to Cuba.
The letter lying beside my computer was sent to me this
year. It states: "Proposed Penalty:
Section 16 of TWEA, 50 U.S.C. App. S 16, provides, in part,
for a civil penalty not to exceed $50,000 for each such
violation.1...Pursant to s 515.702 of the Regulations, you
are hereby notified that OFAC intends to issue a claim
against you for a monetary penalty in the amount of $......"
Perhaps bob doesn't see a "monetary penalty" as a fine. I
certainly do!
Following the Proposed Penalty section of my letter, it has
a section titled 'Your Rights:' with the first one being:
"RIGHT TO RESPOND You have the right to make a written
presentation to OFAC within thirty (30) calendar days of the
mailing...
2. RIGHT TO HEARING AND PREHEARING DISCOVERY You also have
the right to an agency hearing conducted in Washington, D.C.
pursant to 5 U.S.C. SS 554-7 to present defenses to the
imposition of a penalty...
3. RIGHT TO JUDICIAL REVIEW If a monetary penalty is imposed
pursuant to the Regulations, you may seek judicial review
thereof as provided under 5 U.S.C. S702."
Bob wants someone to present him with "evidence of an
American citizen who has been fined for visiting Cuba as a
tourist and spending money there".
People who have their minds made up usually don't want to be
confused with the facts. From the 'opinions' that bob has
put forth, I assume he may be one of that type, so I will
not attempt to debate the issue with him. I just offer this
for the enlightment of those with an open mind who are
looking for information rather than opionions.
This is quite a headache for me, and I take the government
seriously. When they send me a "Prepenaly Notice" stating a
penalty in the thousands of dollars, I tend to look at it as
a fine. I am not good at semantics, so bob may consider it
something other than a fine. I consider it a fine!
I could be one of those referred to in the post by "Who?"
that is facing a fine for going to Cuba. Bob says, "No
private individual who has visited Cuba as a tourist has
ever been fined." He later says, "...my government is not
that of the USA, but that's not really important."
It is interesting that a person who suggests that he is not
a citizen of the USA finds himself in a position inwhich he
attempts to tell citizens what the U.S. government is able
to do and not do.
I have no intention of debating facts with a foreigner's
opinions of what the U.S. government can do. I am currently
faced with a fine because the U.S. government thinks that I
have been to Cuba.
The letter lying beside my computer was sent to me this
year. It states: "Proposed Penalty:
Section 16 of TWEA, 50 U.S.C. App. S 16, provides, in part,
for a civil penalty not to exceed $50,000 for each such
violation.1...Pursant to s 515.702 of the Regulations, you
are hereby notified that OFAC intends to issue a claim
against you for a monetary penalty in the amount of $......"
Perhaps bob doesn't see a "monetary penalty" as a fine. I
certainly do!
Following the Proposed Penalty section of my letter, it has
a section titled 'Your Rights:' with the first one being:
"RIGHT TO RESPOND You have the right to make a written
presentation to OFAC within thirty (30) calendar days of the
mailing...
2. RIGHT TO HEARING AND PREHEARING DISCOVERY You also have
the right to an agency hearing conducted in Washington, D.C.
pursant to 5 U.S.C. SS 554-7 to present defenses to the
imposition of a penalty...
3. RIGHT TO JUDICIAL REVIEW If a monetary penalty is imposed
pursuant to the Regulations, you may seek judicial review
thereof as provided under 5 U.S.C. S702."
Bob wants someone to present him with "evidence of an
American citizen who has been fined for visiting Cuba as a
tourist and spending money there".
People who have their minds made up usually don't want to be
confused with the facts. From the 'opinions' that bob has
put forth, I assume he may be one of that type, so I will
not attempt to debate the issue with him. I just offer this
for the enlightment of those with an open mind who are
looking for information rather than opionions.
This is quite a headache for me, and I take the government
seriously. When they send me a "Prepenaly Notice" stating a
penalty in the thousands of dollars, I tend to look at it as
a fine. I am not good at semantics, so bob may consider it
something other than a fine. I consider it a fine!
I take my leave from this debate permanently.
Joe Doe,
Sorry to hear of your mis-fortune. Could you please tell
us (without breaking anonymity) some of the details? How
did the US government discover you were in Cuba? Did they
give you a dollar figure of the fine? Thank you and good
luck.
Arlo
Jon Doe,
You can't leave us hanging like that. You gotta give us
more details. How long did you go for? What did you go
for? Where did you come back through? How much money did
you spend down there? Did you bring anything back with
you? There are plenty of more.
The U.S. customs agent in Nassau found a couple of boxes of
Cuban cigars in my luggage, Arlo. Cuban cigars are sold in
Nassau, and I attempted to explain that I had bought them
there.
-
I gave a better explanation of this further down on this
branch of Thorntree. You can find a post by Louise titled
'Miami To Havana' that was posted April 1, 1999. I responded
to a post by a net amigo Coyoteway and gave more details.
Just click on the 'follow' button as you did to respond to
this post.
-
Perhaps you would be interested in reading my account and
some very encouraging comments from others about my
situation.
-
The government did state an exact dollar amount of my fine,
which would be enough to pay for several trips to Nassau,
Cuba, or some other spot in the caribbean.
-
Perhaps the group would be interested in a few more details
of how my lawyers are handling this situation.
-
The response to OFAC comprised a listing of A through J of
concerns, requests, or demands. One of these lettered items
included 20 separate items or requests.
-
The first statement under one of these lettered items began
with: "OFAC's regulation of transactions incidental to
travel is a violation of the rights to travel abroad, to
seek informatin through foreign travel relevant to public
issues, and to exchange information and views with foreign
persons, all as guaranteed by the First and Fifth Amendments
to the Constitution of the United States."
-
The response to OFAC on my behalf continues with 20
interrogatories. I will give a few examples of the things
asked for or demanded of OFAC in these interrogatories.
-
"Set forth the number of OFAC 'Requirement to Furnish
Information' notices, 'Prepenalty' notices, informal
resolutions, and hearings generated in connection with
Cuba-bound trips purportedly subject to the Trading With the
Enemy Act, over any and all periods since the inception of
restrictions on travel related transactions."
-
"Set forth the date, number and amounts of every penalty
imposed by OFAC on persons, groups and organizations who
purportedlly violated the restrictions on Cuba travel
related transactions."
-
"Set forth the total amounts of money, both pursuant to
license and not pursuant to license, spent on Cuba related
travel by person traveling to Cuba for any and all periods
since the inception of the Trading With the Enemy Act."
-
There was a total of twenty (20) of these requests under
just ONE of the letters A-J. Other letters contained fewer
specific requests for information.
-
I will quote just one other of these twenty specific items
which should give you some idea of the magnitude of the
effort required of OFAC if they comply with all of these
interrogatories.
-
"What are the names, address, and telephone numbers and
areas of expertise of all individuals, agencies,
departments, and/or other organizations form whom or from
which you have either gathered information in this case, or
upon whom or upon which you intend to rely to give testimony
or provide other evidence in this case?"
-
When and if the government complies with all of these
interrogatories, Arlo, we will have a better idea as to how
far our government is willing to go, and to what expense of
time and effort, to penalize someone whom they THINK has
gone to Cuba.
-
One individual who has responded to posts on this topic has
categorically stated that no individual U.S. citizen has
ever been fined for going to Cuba.
I am in no position to know what ALL of the 250 million plus
citizens of the U.S.A. have been subjected to. I am in a
position to know what I am currently facing. The situation
is not pleasant, but I have confidence in that I am being
represented be a really terrific group of lawyers in New
York.
-
This is not an attempt to debate or disagree with anyone who
holds different views. I will verbally defend anyone's right
to hold those views. I also defend anyone's right to
challenge my statements, but I would hope that the person
would do so with facts rather than just opinions.
I'm really sorry to hear about your predicament, but not
obviously as sorry as you are. The point is though, and I
assert this again, you have still not been fined for
travelling to Cuba. You have not actually PAID any fine. You
are being harrassed by your government, but this will not
lead to you being fined. Easy for me to say, but you are not
going to be fined. I hope you are not going to spend a
fortune on lawyers fees. Just ignore all their
correspondence. That's what others have done. It is all
intimidation. I repeat to all, open your ears real wide; NO
US tourist has ever been fined for visiting Cuba. Besides,
the fact of the matter is that the US prohibition is
actually not on travelling to Cuba, but on spending money
there. This is unenforceable.
Many others have received the same letters and the same
intimidation. But NONE have had to PAY a fine.
I continue to challenge anybody to present evidence of any
US tourist who has been fined for visiting Cuba.
I was sent a fine for Cuban cigars mailed to me. As
mentioned above, I ignored letter sent to me. Never heard
back from them. That was over a year ago. I'm sure they
enjoyed the cigars.
Lonely Planet Guide to Cuba,David Stanley,do mention some US
Citizens receiving threatening letters from their Government
and as that,NO ONE YET HAS BEEN PROSECUTED OR HAD PAY A FINE
YET.
I sincerely think although may not be on solid ground,I'M
Canadian,that US Government is definitivly not too
comfortable either in fining it's citizens and it's role of
Human Rights Leader etc....
Threats.....Yes
Action......No at least not yet.
Fine paid???none yet
We're still waiting to hear from any US tourist who has had
to pay a fine for visiting, or spending money, in Cuba. It's
all a big myth - and smells of US government intimidation.
Remember, if you do get a letter or a fine, just ignore it.
If you're sensitive, it might be advisable not to bring
Cuban cigars back to the US.
Remember, above all, that you live in the land of the free,
right? :-)
Seems like arrogrant foreigners like Bob and Jean Pierre
think they know more about what the U.S.A. government can do
than the government does. I don't think anybody who has been
fined is going to take out an advertisement in the local
newspaper to tell Bob about it. Geez, you know-it-all
blowhards make me sick.
I have read most of the opinionated nonsense from Bob. He
sure does think he knows a lot. Where is he from? Ignoring
legal documents in America can be pretty serious.
George - I'm right obviously. Nobody has ever paid a fine.
It might just be I know a lot more than you.
Don - you've got no balls. Neither has your government. Your
government only picks on poor innocents like Cuba and its
own citizens. Man, you guys really do live in a land of pig
ignorance. I've met some great Americans, but sadly, you
guys do not qualify.
Arlo - this guy seems to know what he's talking about.