Karma Kagyu Buddhist Network
---

SPECIAL ISSUE: The Recognition of the XVIIth Karmapa Thaye Dorje

by Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche XIV
International Karma Kagyu Conference
March 28, 1996, New Delhi, India

This international Karma Kagyu conference was requested by the authentic Rumtek monastic sangha.

There are many representatives of Rumtek Monastery here today, the authentic monks, the khenpo and the junior khenpos, all of whom have had personal experience of what has happened at Rumtek during the past four years. They have direct knowledge of the tradition of Rumtek, the activities of studying and practicing the Buddha´s teachings, and also to what extent the monastery is now in a state of decline. There are also many other disciples of the late Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje from the Himalayas, Asia, Europe and America, who have come here to participate in this conference.

Rinpoche welcomes all of you and thanks you for coming here. He would also like to thank the chairpeople as well as the staff who have helped organize this conference. Some of you represent different monasteries or dharma centers, and some of you are devotees of the XVIth Karmapa. You have all come here in the hope that Shamar Rinpoche will inform you of the events surrounding his recognition of the late Karmapa´s reincarnation, which would involve revealing instructions left behind by the late Karmapa. Rinpoche says that he will clarify what has occurred until now, and what he has accomplished.In the tradition of the monastic institution of which the Karmapa is the head, where the different reincarnations have been found, identified, brought to the monastery, and consequently enthroned, there have been seventeen Karmapas.

In terms of actual reincarnations there are eighteen, but only seventeen have been installed at the monastery.After the XIVth Karmapa passed away there were instructions left behind pertaining to a young boy who only lived for three years, so he was never enthroned. So this Karmapa is not a part of the official monastic line. However his body was brought to Tsurphu monastery where it was enshrined. So there have been actually eighteen reincarnations of Karmapa, although in terms of the official lineage there are seventeen. We do not in know whether it was unfortunate or not that this Karmapa only lived to the age of three, because high reincarnates have a particular purpose in mind for their manifestation. They emanate for the sake of benefiting beings. If we look at the thousand Buddhas of this eon, some only live for seven days. There might be more subtle reasons behind such a short lifespan.

Almost seventeen years have passed since the Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje passed away. At this point, we have not yet received any instructions left behind by the late Karmapa. Rinpoche himself is one of the holders of the lineage of the Karma Kamtsang school of Tibetan Buddhism, but instructions were not left with him. Neither were they left with members of the administration. No one has come forward. Many of the late Karmapa´s attendants, members of the Rumtek Monastery such as the master of rituals, the khenpo and so on are here today, and none of them have received instructions.

If we look at the nature of this type of instruction, it cannot be compared with a will that parents leave behind, where they divide their property among their children. Instructions left by reincarnates such as the Karmapa are based on entirely different purposes. Buddhas and Bodhisattvas do not just consider one short life, they have the good of humanity or all sentient beings in mind. They take into consideration various circumstances at the present time when their instructions are left as well as future circumstances. So one cannot at all compare this situation with a parent´s will.The process of identifying a reincarnation is a spiritual practice. Again, it is not at all like a will of a king to the crown prince.

The process of identifying a reincarnate is purely spiritual. In the Karma Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism, the process of identifying a reincarnate is based on the teachings of Buddhism. In fact, to identify a reincarnate is an enlightened activity beyond the ordinary actions of people in this world.The process identifying a reincarnate is not at all compatible with the way of thinking in the samsaric world, how beings in samsara think and act. It is the domain of Bodhisattvas on the paths and levels leading to attaining Buddhahood, the enlightened state. An ordinary person practicing the Buddhadharma has no ability to identify a reincarnate. That is only possible for individuals who have already attained high levels of realization and who have the specific spiritual capacity. It must be someone who clearly perceives both past and future, or a person who is able to directly communicate with a yidam, or a meditation deity.

If we come back to the instructions left behind by a reincarnate, individuals who take part in following those instructions must be beyond the ordinary world, who have attained a level of realization beyond the samsaric world. Therefore if people who are not at the proper level of realization - politicians for example - take part in the process, things will get messed up. So the process of identifying a reincarnation is in fact an enlightened activity. If people who aim to improve their financial situation or to advance in politics take part in the process, as was said, the situation becomes very difficult, very problematic.

On the other hand, if the person in charge is an authentic lama, his following will be made up of people who have trust and confidence in their lama as well as in the teachings. Thus there will not be any problems. If ordinary samsaric people take charge of this process, there will be negative effects. The process of identifying the reincarnation of the late Karmapa has proven very difficult. Much damage has been done to the Buddhadharma. That is one way of looking at it. One can also look at this from another point of view, namely that those lamas and their disciples who have no interest at all in misusing the dharma for political purposes have united, and this has improved the situation.

With that in mind, Rinpoche would like to communicate to you in detail his efforts in arriving at the decision that Thaye Dorje is the reincarnation of the late Karmapa.

As you know, the XVIth Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje passed away in 1981. Shortly after that, the late general secretary Damcho Yongdu requested that the four Rinpoches Shamar Rinpoche, Situ Rinpoche, Jamgon Rinpoche, and Gyaltsap Rinpoche as a group should shoulder the responsibility of identifying the reincarnation. This was agreed to by all four. If one looks at this in a historical perspective, this was a modernization.

Historically, Tibet was a country filled with Buddhist masters, who correctly maintained their activities and relations with one another based on the Dharma, on the Buddha´s teachings. If a Buddhist master was regarded to have certain spiritual capacities, he would be chosen to rest in meditation to discover the details of the reincarnation. That lama would perhaps have a vision or an experience that indicated the whereabouts of the reincarnation. He would then discuss his experience with other lamas. In this way the search for and identification of a reincarnation would be resolved. The new scheme initiated by the late general secretary was a modernization, a modern way of trying to do that. However, it came to function like the board of directors of a company gathering once a year to have a meeting. Rinpoche says he does not feel he has to go into why this did not prove to be successful because all of you understand that already.

Rinpoche says that before 1992 he has never made public the discussions which took place during those meetings or the resolutions taken, not to a single member of his own family or any other close friends. He has never tried to use what was said for any purpose at all. In 1992, a kind of explosion took place, after which it was necessary to discuss matters with others. That is all that Rinpoche would like to say about the past political process. He would now like to present his personal efforts based on the Dharma towards finding and identifying the reincarnation of the late Karmapa.

Rinpoche begins by telling us that in 1985 he was staying here in New Delhi for a period of time supervising the construction of the Karmapa International Buddhist Institute, as he has from the beginning been responsible for this project. It meant that for periods of time he stayed in Delhi. In 1985, during such a period, he was visited by a great Sakya lama, Chobgye Tri Rinpoche, whose monastery is in Kathmandu, Nepal. Rinpoche respects Chobgye Tri Rinpoche greatly, and regards him as a highly qualified spiritual master. Furthermore, many people in different schools of Tibetan Buddhism regard Chobgye Tri Rinpoche as a saint. His Holiness the Dalai Lama holds him in high regard as did the late Karmapa. Rinpoche himself has a relationship of respect and devotion to Chobgye Tri Rinpoche, who has also shown great affection to Rinpoche. Chobgye Tri Rinpoche came here to Delhi, having cut short his visit to a Sakya monastery in Moussurie to meet with Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche. He said that he needed to Shamar Rinpoche urgently and told him the following:

"Shortly after the late Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje passed away I had a dream early one morning. Karmapa was wearing the dharma robes and circumambulating the stupa at Boudhnath, looking very frail and weak. In the dream, I felt sad and cried. Shortly after that, the Karmapa passed away." He went on to tell Shamar Rinpoche that just a few days before he came to Delhi he had yet another dream about His Holiness early one morning: "His Holiness was dressed in the yellow dharma robes and was walking around a stupa. The color of his robes were very clear and radiant. He was wearing the Gampopa hat and was very cheerful." At noon on the same day that he had the dream, Chobgye Tri Rinpoche was visited by a relative from Lhasa who brought a photograph of a young child who was quite well known in the area of Lhasa to have said, "I am the Karmapa".

That is why Chobgye Tri Rinpoche came to see Rinpoche in Delhi.Shamar Rinpoche felt that when he was told this, he should try to find out about this young child, to make a connection. Chobgye Tri Rinpoche said, "You must not make a decision on the basis of what I have told you. Of course the decision must be based on instructions left behind and on the visions and experiences of highly qualified spiritual masters. However I felt that I should come and tell you this, since you are the Shamarpa. It is known in the history of the Karma Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism that the Shamarpa lamas and the Karmapa lamas are regarded as inseparable."

The boy in the photograph was very young, approximately three years old. Rinpoche didn´t tell anyone about this. In the beginning of 1987 Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche was going to Lhasa on behalf of the Nepal Buddhist Association as a delegate for the conference, and Shamar Rinpoche asked him to find out about the boy in the photograph, without letting anyone know that Rinpoche had asked him to do so. The boy was living in an area of Lhasa called Bakhor with his parents. His father was a Nyingma lama called Mipham Rinpoche, who had two sons, both of whom were regarded by people in the area as extraordinary children. So Shamar Rinpoche asked Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche to try to meet with the family without anyone noticing what he was up to. This he did and returned with information on the parents´ names, where the sons had been born, in which year, and so on.

Mipham Rinpoche, the father, is the reincarnation of a great Nyingma master who was also connected with the Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism. Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche found out that the father was in possession of the religious objects and letters of the previous Mipham Rinpoche. Now among these possessions was a letter written by his predecessor which says that in his next incarnation a son Rigpe Yeshe Dorje will be born to him. Now Rigpe Dorje, that portion of the name, is connected with the late Karmapa, Rangjung Rigpe Dorje. Since the father would not part with the letter, Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche contacted another lama who was a close friend of the father who convinced him to allow the letter to be copied by hand. So the original letter is held by Mipham Rinpoche, and Shamar Rinpoche has a handwritten copy.

So Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche was the first person that Rinpoche asked to find out about the young child. Rinpoche says that Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche was not officially appointed as a person to search for the reincarnation of the late Karmapa, however as he was going to Lhasa anyway and was a trustworthy person, he asked him to collect information. Now when Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche returned and told Rinpoche what he had discovered, Rinpoche did not show any reaction. He kept everything to himself. Now in order to find out more Rinpoche sent a second person to investigate. This second person came back with virtually the same information that Rinpoche had received from Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche; however there was one significant addition.

The child was apparently taken out one day by a close friend of Mipham Rinpoche to the Jokhang Temple in Bakhor which has a well known Buddha statue. As the friend was carrying around the young son circumambulating this temple, he noticed that a crowd had gathered, so they went inside. Inside, a lama of substantial size, so to speak, was painting gold on the face of the Buddha statue. They were told that this lama had come from India. Now the friend of the father put the child down and the boy ran up to the lama and asked him, "Do you recognize me?" The lama said, "No."

The child returned and they went back to the parents. After the friend of the father told them about the lama from India who was painting the face of the Buddha statue with gold, the family became curious. They made inquiries and found out that it was Gyaltsap Rinpoche. They went to meet him and were going to bring their son with them, but the boy told them, "I don´t want to meet him, because he does not recognize who I am." So this story was brought back by the second person who Rinpoche sent to investigate.

After that, in 1988, Shamar Rinpoche met with a disciple of the late Karmapa, a very devoted disciple who is a very trustworthy person here in India. Now this person told Shamar Rinpoche that he had received instructions regarding the reincarnation from the late Karmapa.

Some time ago when Shamar Rinpoche met with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, His Holiness asked Rinpoche if the rumors that he knew of such a person were true, to which Rinpoche answered that he had met such a person. When His Holiness asked Rinpoche when he had met him, Rinpoche answered that he met him at the meeting a few years back in Varanasi where the different schools of Tibetan Buddhism had gathered. His Holiness also wanted to know who this person was, to which Rinpoche responded that unfortunately he was not able to tell him. To be clear, this is the same person Rinpoche has mentioned many times in the past that he is talking about now. Concurrent with the meetings Rinpoche had with the other three Rinpoches regarding Karmapa´s reincarnation, he secretly pursued this investigation of the child in the photograph. He sent a third person to Lhasa to seek out the family. Now the father, being a well known lama, would frequently be asked for mos or predictions. In Bakhor, this particular area in Lhasa, many lamas live, and apparently their homes are open. People can just come and ask for advice or request a blessing. It is not like here where people have to make an appointment. Their doors are always open.

So Shamar Rinpoche instructed the person he sent to Lhasa to casually contact the family in that way, and then to observe the young boy. So this person arrives at Bakhor, and after circumambulating the temples, went into the house of the family, and encountered the young boy, who immediately said, "You have come to look for me." Now the person did not respond and asked to see the father on the pretext of asking for a prediction regarding business matters. He had a short encounter with the father. He did not remain in Lhasa for very long but returned and the information he offered was much the same as Rinpoche had already received.

So the fact that the young boy told this man "You have come to look for me," indicates that he was an outstanding reincarnate. It is only reincarnates of very high spiritual capacity who are able as young children to know things such as the purpose of a person coming to their house. All this time, the regular meetings with the four Rinpoches continued to take place.

Since Shamar Rinpoche had observed that every year these meetings had become increasingly political he felt he should remain silent. He didn´t trust the others with this information. Rinpoche says he doesn´t say this out of disrespect, rather that he finds it very unfortunate. So at this point, Rinpoche decided to enter a retreat, for the purpose of obtaining an indication through his meditation practice of the identity of the true reincarnation of the late Karmapa. Rinpoche explains that there is no other method to verify the reincarnation as the late Karmapa had not left instructions behind that could yet be revealed. To find the whereabouts of the reincarnation, it is not possible to think up some sort of far out mission and just forge ahead. The only way indications can be obtained is through meditation. Shamar Rinpoche was concerned that the authentic reincarnation was found, and for that reason went into retreat.

In the early morning of the seventh day of the retreat, the late Karmapa appeared to Rinpoche in a dream. The Karmapa was sitting on a low seat in the dream and was performing a particular ritual for the sake of those who are either deceased in order to liberate them or for those who are seriously ill. In the dream, His Holiness told Shamar Rinpoche, "I have liberated the person I have set out to liberate. I will now come wherever you want me to."

The next day in his retreat Rinpoche made continuous prayers to his yidam deity. As he had sent out three people to investigate the young boy in Lhasa, he was almost certain that he was the authentic reincarnation, however he made continuous prayers in order to obtain indications whether this boy would greatly benefit the Buddhadharma. As a result he had another dream. In the dream appeared a golden Buddha statue of enormous proportions in front of which were rows of offering bowls of perfumed water. In the dream Shamar Rinpoche was consecrating the statue. As most of you probably know, during such ceremonies it is customary for the lama to throw rice toward the object being consecrated, in this case the Buddha statue. Now the rice grains that he scattered multiplied and become a rain of rice grains falling on the Buddha statue. Furthermore, behind the statue there were innumerable other Buddha statues and in their midst there was an enormous butter lamp filled to the brim with butter. In the center of this lamp, in place of the flame, there was something that could be described as a bulb of white luminous light.

Now Rinpoche says that this was a dream and there was no witness to confirm it, because a dream is always very personal. However he became very excited feeling that the boy in Lhasa was the authentic reincarnation. Rinpoche decided he must go to Lhasa himself, but it would be necessary to travel incognito. He planned to appear as an ordinary businessman and do the rounds in Bakhor and enter the family´s house on the pretext of requesting a prediction on business matters. Now Rinpoche was under the impression that the Bakhor area is very large, but it turned out to be quite small and to be filled with people. Among these were many Tibetan traders from India and Nepal, so that Rinpoche would be easily recognized. Now Rinpoche´s original plan was after having contacted the father and observed the young child he would then go to an area of Tibet called Tsari to a place called the White Lake. This lake is important in the history of the Karma Kagyu, because it is customary to do a retreat there for the purpose of obtaining indications of the whereabouts of a reincarnation. Now Rinpoche had traveled from Hong Kong to Chendu to Lhasa, and then discovered that he could not remain incognito. He also learned that the authorities knew he was in the country and he deduced since they had not approached him that they were observing what he was up to. Now in order to divert their attention from his real purpose, he went off to the northern part of the country to a place called Namtso which is a tourist area and pretended to be a tourist. Upon his return to Lhasa, he took the next flight to Kathmandu.

There was another incident connected with Rinpoche´s visit to Tibet that he would like to describe. In late 1988, Dingo Khyentse Rinpoche had been informed by a sister of the Bhutanese king named Sonam Chodron that she had a vision where she received information concerning the reincarnation of the Karmapa. Dingo Khyentse Rinpoche was given this information by the Princess Sonam Chodron directly, and he had letters written to Shamar Rinpoche, Situ Rinpoche, Jamgon Rinpoche, Gyaltsap Rinpoche, and also the Dalai Lama. At the time Shamar Rinpoche was in Tibet, he told one of the secretaries at Yangpar Chen Monastery about the letter. Rinpoche´s point here was that he had not gone to Tibet because of the vision of Sonam Chodron or the letter from Dingo Khyentse Rinpoche, but for the purposes previously mentioned.

So Rinpoche returned to Kathmandu, having been unable to visit the White Lake in Tsari. With Rinpoche at the time was a senior lama Tsultrim Dawa, an advisor to Rinpoche whom he highly respects. Rinpoche says that Lama Tsultrim Dawa was of a high spiritual capacity. This lama was living at a monastery in Swayambhu Kathmandu. Rinpoche asked him to go to a place outside of Kathmandu called Parphing where there is a spontaneously arisen image of Tara in rock. In Tibetan Buddhism, when wanting indications of a reincarnation orfor other matters, there is the tradition of writing down different possibilities, rolling the pieces of paper into balls of dough, putting those into a vessel in front of a sacred image, such as this one of Tara, and praying that the right indication will fall out of the vessel. So since Pharphing is also a very busy place, and at the time there were many rumors regarding the search for the Karmapa´s reincarnation, Rinpoche sent Lama Tsultrim Dawa, because he couldn´t go there himself. There were two different possibilities written down on two pieces of paper. On one piece was written that Tendzin Khyentse, which was the name at the time of Thaye Dorje, is the reincarnation of the late Karmapa, and the other piece said that he is not. These two pieces of paper were rolled into two pieces of dough and Lama Tsultrim Dawa put them into a vessel. After shaking them around, one of them falls out and that is presumably the right indication. The one which said that Tendzin Khyentse is the reincarnation of the Karmapa fell out.

The same procedure was followed the next day in an area of Kathmandu called Dulikhel where there is a big field with a very sacred Mahakala statue. Again the same piece of paper fell out of the vessel. Now Lama Tsultrim Dawa on his own initiative went to two other sacred spots in Kathmandu, one where there is a painting of Mahakala by the tenth Karmapa Choying Dorje and another place called the sacred spot of the White Buddha. On both occasions the piece of paper where it was written that Tendzin Khyentse is the reincarnation of the Karmapa fell out of the vessel. This further convinced Shamar Rinpoche that Tendzin Khyentse was the reincarnation of the Karmapa. As the meetings with the other three Rinpoches continued, Rinpoche kept all of this information to himself, thinking that if the circumstances of the reincarnation were political, that would prevent the Karmapa from being able to act for the benefit of beings in the world; it would obstruct his activities. Therefore he kept everything to himself. For a long time he had suspicions of political involvement, which worsened with time. He felt there could not be discussions similar to those which could have taken place in old Tibet. The situation had changed; there was no longer opportunity for discussions based purely on spirituality.

Now at one of the meetings with the other Rinpoches in 1992, Situ Rinpoche presented what he called the prediction letter claiming that it was written by the late Karmapa. Shamar Rinpoche, as he has said, did not find the letter at all convincing and he said in the meeting that he didn´t find the handwriting similar to that of the late Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje. He said, addressing Situ Rinpoche, "It is rather similar to your handwriting. Furthermore, the signature has been blurred. As I have doubts I must insist that this letter is subjected to forensic tests. If the tests show that the letter is authentic, I have no objections, and I will create no problems." However, as all of you know, the tests never took place, but a lot of other unpleasant events occurred. Shamar Rinpoche says he does not want to go into that. Probably all of you have knowledge of those events by now through this conference.

A year passed. During that time, Rinpoche chose to tell some people whom he regarded as genuine devotees of the Karmapa that he had some information, and that it was important that there be no politics involved. He also told them that he had suspicions that the prediction letter presented by Situ Rinpoche was not authentic; even the signature had been blurred by water. More and more people with political inclinations had become involved in the search for the reincarnation. And as you know after 1992 many unfortunate events took place at Rumtek Monastery. What had been created there earlier as a monastic institution for learning and meditation was utterly destroyed. So now ordinary worldly people, on the pretext of being spiritual, interfere and promote their opinions. The issue of finding the Karmapa´s reincarnation was brought down to such a low level that this was discussed by people in the area of Gangtok called Lal Bazar where vegetables and other things are sold. This is where continuous discussions and decisions took place concerning which incarnation was genuine. Shamar Rinpoche says that for a few years, he did not know what to do because the situation had deteriorated to such an extent. Since all of you know of these events, Rinpoche won´t go into the details. He told the people who he felt were genuine devotees of the Karmapa to simply wait for the next incarnation.

Now since it is difficult to wait endlessly, Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche has decided to communicate to you today, as all of you here are genuine followers and are devoted to the Karmapa. As you know, the young boy Tendzin Khyentse and his family came out of Tibet. This occurred through entirely legal channels. The family had been put under very harsh restrictions by the authorities in Tibet and therefore they decided to leave the country. They were able to do so and thus they came to India.During all these years, Shamar Rinpoche has kept contact with the person who has the instructions from the late Karmapa. Rinpoche has informed him of each and every step he has taken and there has never been any objection from this person. However he cannot reveal his instructions until the proper time has come when he was instructed to do so.Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche finally decided to announce his recognition of the Karmapa, for historically, Rinpoche´s position is such that it is appropriate for him to do so. Therefore he has revealed the information that has been communicated to you today. Of course, it would have been easier for Rinpoche if the incarnation would have appeared in Sikkim, Bhutan, or a similar place. Problems with travel documentation and so on would have been avoided. However, one cannot change the basic situation for such reasons. The reincarnation must be authentic.

Regarding the specific instructions left behind by the late Karmapa, Shamar Rinpoche cannot say more. The late Karmapa had certain intentions in leaving these instructions. His intentions and purpose cannot be fathomed. They are based upon his great vision and wisdom, and as the person who has these instructions has been told to keep them secret for a particular period of time, Rinpoche feels he has to respect that. Regarding this particular person, if you individually or as a group felt it would be of benefit to reveal the identity, Rinpoche could introduce this person to you. You have to decide whether this would be beneficial or not before making such a request. All of you here have come with great hopes of finding out about the instructions left behind by the late Karmapa. Now if this were a gathering where people had political intentions and did not have devotion for the Karmapa, Rinpoche would not have discussed anything that he has communicated here today. But he believes that all of you are devoted to the Karmapa and have kept your commitments pure, therefore he has chosen to be frank. If this were a gathering of people who acted in a way which contradicts the teachings of Buddhism, he would have remained silent.

Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche concludes by saying that he thanks the chairpeople who among others requested that he convey this information, and he is pleased that he has the opportunity to speak to you today.

---

HomePage Mail to: Infoline Help Search Random Pages

Copyright © 1996 Karma Kagyu Buddhist Network
Most recent update: March 8th, 1997
For further information or feedback contact the WebMaster