ARexx (21/81)

From:Thomas Hurst
Date:15 May 2001 at 02:48:13
Subject:Re: The List, the Universe and Everything

Pfft, reply didn't want to work with your mail - Agent locked. Sorry
about the broken threading.. let's also blame the [arexx] in the subject
which will break threading by subject. Joy :)

> On 02 May 01, at 11:01+0100, Thomas wrote:
> > Now, yonks ago we were discussing the possibility of a website for the
> > list. Sadly, this sorta died out and never got too far, but I'd like to
> > revive it if there's still interest, and a community to keep it alive.
>
> So you changed your opinion ?

I wasn't aware I had one, but looking at the dev list archives it all
went silent at about the time I became (more) depressed.

> Nice to hear that. I still have the project
> on my HDD. Sadly I never had the motivation to do it all on my own. I was
> in need of a good graphics-artist but never knew who to ask.

Don't overestimate the need for graphics.

> So, what I have done so far is quite nice:
> List of all available ARexx documentation (known to me) along with links.
[SNIP]

Great. Any particular format?

> What I have planned:
> Complete ARexx documentation (including all libs' docs) online,
> searchable (XML/SQL (Python or perl could be used on server-side) ?).

The site will be written in PHP with a MySQL backend, but XML makes a
great format for docs. Have a look at DocBook, for example -
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/

> This database would also be used throughout the tutorials.
> Frontend to search the mailing-list archives (one stop).

Yahoo Groups has this, no?

I do have plans to write a mailing list archive browser/search for
another project, however - would be possible to write our own.

> What is completly missing ATM:
> Gfx (I _tired_ to do a logo ;-))

<font size="+7" ..>..</font>

> Style (the document looks crap, I am not sure about a color scheme but
> thought on royal (rexx) blue or a good arrangement of grey with mint or
> yellow elements)

Not immediately important.. black on white and a few tables can make for
a perfectly usable website.

> CGI-Scripts (web-document search, ARexx-documentation search, mail-
> notify, news-handling)

I can handle this.

> Valid Navigation Concept (dynamic HTML)

<a href="link"><h1><blink>!!!!!!!KLICK HERE!!!!!!</blink></h1></a>

> Javascript (this might be nice for making the navigation more powerful)

Or more annoying.

> CSS (I planned to make the document easy for console based text
> browsers and add style by use of CSS)

Bad idea for an Amiga site seeing as CSS support there is, er, non
existant. Textmode browsers can fend for themselves (anyone who uses
one can always submit a template for one).

> Don't get scared off by terms like Javascript and dynamic HTML.

Getting dangerously close to DHTML there :P

> On some place near I'd like to add a Javascript-made Quick-Jump menu.

Why use JavaScript and make an otherwise standard GUI component work in
unexpected ways when you can just add a little [Go] button? In fact, why
use them at all when you could list links like normal and keep the site
easier to navigate and more transparant?

> Here it would list all sub-chapters of the 'Workshop' portion.
> Also a PREV and NEXT element should be somewhere. Ugh, you see, this
> will get a little complicated since I believe that it is neccessary to keep a
> web-document easy to navigate and to overview easily but not on xost of
> the contents. Of course, Javascript would not be a requirement, it would
> only add the one or other functionality.

Being easy to navigate doesn't necessarily mean complex/superflous GUI
components.

> > I can provide hosting and can also deal with development, but I think
> > it's worthwhile discussing it first.
>
> Well, the mailing-list still exists ? ;-) It was nice way back then.

Yes, with an amazing 3 people on it. However, that was for an ARexx
site.. I have higher aims.

> > I can see the
> > userbase being a bit on the small side.
>
> Not of importance. Five people having fun is five people having fun.

It is of importance when 5 people glance at the site and in finding next
to nothing there bugger off never to return or contribute.

> > So what can be done about this? How about a generic Amiga developers
> > site covering everything from ARexx to C, E, Rebol, web development,
> > API's and so on? The site would be entirely community driven, and
> > include discussion groups, tutorials, code libraries and links.
>
> Such a Super-Site would be nice, of course. However, I would
> recommend to host the projects on their own 'within' this site.
> So each document (ARexx, Rebol, C, etc.) would have its own face but
> being 'inlined' with the super site, which offers global indizies and such.

I see each section having it's own community, but the point of such a
site would be that everything uses pretty much the same components and
are effectively the same usage wise.

> But - This is much work.

Building the components isn't that much work.. real work comes when
filling the site with content.

> For me, ARexx will be enough.

One less language to worry about finding support for then :)

> A little thing: I do not think anything else would be suited as site-name
> than: ARexx.Org :-) This is how I named the document anyhow.

Domain Name: AREXX.ORG

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
Tucker, Alex (AT8177) yodare@CALWEB.COM

> ARexx.Com is out of discussion, IMO. ARexx is not a company and we
> don't ask for money.

.com is also taken by the same guy.

> I am _absolutly_ not familiar with such domain-registrations (costs,
> procedure, whom to ask best)

A domain name is not a requirement.. subdomain/directory namespace is
massive and an awful lot cheaper.

> > That is, if it's worth the effort..
>
> Such things are. They do not bring money. But the bring fun. Believe me,
> if I'd have more time, the document already would exist.

*shrug*, there are other things I could work on. I don't want to put
effort into such a site and have it flop completely. Seeing a community
die before it even starts is not my idea of fun.

> However, I am working on a much more complex project (also involves
> ARexx :-)), so there is no time left. I will create a basic document out of
> the elements I have written so far, if there should be the demand for it.

The web is a massive information sink - it has an insatiable demand for
anything you care to offer.

> The benefit of HSC is that it makes a large document easyly
> maintainable, once you figured out HSC and set up the Makefile and
> scripts.

I seem to remember HSC being a piddling little macro language for
preprocessing HTML files, doesn't sound too maintainable to me :)

Then again, it has been a looooooooooong time since I used it.

> I am not familiar with CVS, but I think it should be considered. That
> would allow for easy addings of users, even if they do not want to get
> involved, but want to correct typos or add one or other element.

I can't see CVS being much use for a database driven website, unless the
underlying documentation and such are going to be XML. Code's a
different matter, of course.

> I _might_ be able to host 'ARexx.Org' and set up a majordomo even, and
> if it would be for replacing the EGroups list. However, this is only an
> idea yet and I would have to ask my host about it.

Hosting's not a problem unless you want to go away and do your own
thing. Even then there's plenty of options for hosting, especially
static sites.



Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst - freak@aagh.net - http://www.aagh.net/

ARexx mailing list - No flames, no overquoting, no crossposting.
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