UWVFP( FP0 ‹؋F&O F&G&G<ʋЋ™Ƌ$6&~&6&F&9EtL2pP3P F&EĞ&(6&>pt*6&>vt TF&EF,6&>~FvFĞ&^&9~Ì~ڹ-F*Ftz8ft F^&8Gui~t F^&8GuWF+F;F| F9Fu~tF@t8F^&8Gt,F+F;F~<.6&>t0^&GĞ&v&@F[FF,6&9~2F^&8Gu FuӋvzvĞ&7X06&?&&DPĞ&&& 26&>|u 46&z66&^&Gȋƻ[؎86&>&I86&&a~t;F*PĞ&&& 46&zF*Pv:6&& ud26&>|u 46&zĞ&&& <6&6&6` P, >6&F&H t8PP  |FPPh P:6&6&6P  |FPPh P*6&>vt BlPP] @6&6&6`Ğ&&& pP B6&R&TĞ&7FD6&FF6& fĞ&7FtH6&&J6&H6&J6&f%=؎L6&FD6&FF6& ^_]ːUVN6&6 &6rP N6&6 &6"P vPrPh P"Ph FPrPXX @uNFP"PXX @uQN6&6 &6"P P6&6(&6&"Ph FP"PXX @uFV9Vvr9Fv~} ~[sPrPC uƆrPrPVj3 6d6brP  udpP~QPVj3 FPF-P86&6&6VP R6&[RPFV-RP ,6&V2 ^]UWV+PP( FVN6&6 &6FP N6&6 &64P PFPh P4Ph FP4PXX @uQN6&6 &64P P6&6(&6&4Ph FP4PXX @u3FV9Vw1r9Fs*FVFV06&X&& FVFVFVPPFPC uP6d6bVh4 pP~QPVh4 3,602&9?~Dv3ɉNރ,.&Gt &u&g[GĞ0&9?ЋvFP[Ğ0&/P86&6&6VW V2 FPFPR ^_]ːUTWVN6&6 &6FP PFPh PFP V t)FPVQpQ~RQx WV ^_]ːU"WVFP( FP0 V<&m&EFT6&F&M FF &EF~,6&F 86&&؉V$6&FN9Nu~t F&u|v&DF&8G tl&G *Fta&G:F t F&D8FuJF&G9F t F&D8Fu0Fw&F;FF&@t+~9~~~[A9N~a~}+FFf~@~F39N86&&>؉V~؃~t Fw&uZFw&*FtJF&F t F&8Eu4Fw&F t F&8EuFw&FF;F}F[A9N~V~t}^_]ːear all searchUWVP V t5P6  u$FPVVP VPƆVPVPh FPVPXX  t$VPP(P P ~WP V u P(P P P-PVP26 FV u$VP0P(P P vvWPvV ;t2VPLP(P vv P vv  t$VPwP(P P F  3RT&7&GLX"3NP&&G&MVv~~؎ZX&&+NjV&&PIuvĞN&F&7&GĞR&&&GÌV&$3& &> & & ߎ&&3&OF&&&ʋH(3JL&&G*3&&F&ʋFPQ" @FĞJ&&?~G~VvN~&&+NjV&&PAĞJ&&9ڋ~v*3&F&7&GĞJ&&@&GF,3&> & M.3& & ^_]ː% U.WV4Z9&3\9&6^9&"`9& b9&r d9&bf9&dh9&fj9&h+ɉNNvvZ RP"Pr QP V^V۹^VNVl9&>nu-n9&X&B&@ "P| 3br QP t~ PvvP t!2PP] p9&tN릐2PP] p9&u, QP2PP] p9&u0 ~+PP( FVP+PP( ȋ+FV~9&&SQvvvVr FV~9&&d3SQRP FVdRPvv FVvvRP<RPSQRPvv⚺ RPFމVT SQvvމFډVܚT <3SQvvF։Vؚ FV؋Nڋ^+SQF҉VԚT +FVRPvvvvvvZ RPn9&X&r&p N~9&pr9^F&?tt9&>vt^&?t;^9&>"u\9&>6u `9&> tPvv^&?tMt9&>vtAPPv9&68&66`Px9&GPv9&68&66 tظ[.ظ&&،F&Gt1&9}&Gع&;z ~36&z F&9G|&F u &>tF&Gu & t~u &>tF&Gt & uPvvP t}pr9^F&?tMt9&>vtAPPv9&68&66`Px9&JPv9&68&66+PP( FVz9&>|u |9&z, QP |%^&?tMt9&>vtAPPv9&68&66`Px9&GPv9&68&66PvvPn9&X&F&D PvvPr9&>ptMt9&>vtAPPv9&68&66`Px9&GPv9&68&66^_]UWV P3Z9&P QP 9+&& ~ u19&9>"t2PP] p9&u |] u9&9&F |#[n9&&@t 9&2P P] =tz9&>|u |9&zr9&>ptt9&>vtT9&>"t2PP] p9&t t3Pt9&N& LtsdP FV|] t6~vv`  u!dP FV] |] u͚] 3P9&6N&6LtmpP FVRP`  tP~|] t@2P P] =t* vv`  t 3b2PP] p9&t;3PN^9&>"u\9&>6u `9&> t N(^_]ːUWV9 &?|%[&/9&&~ڹ-Ğ &?}^9&>"t5~t/F*Pn9&X&N&L F*P3~9&& t1B*PWn9&X&R&P B*PFF;r `9&?u \9&>6t?Ğ &?|5~t/F*Pn9&X&V&T F*PO9&& uĞ&?u\9&>6u^9&>"un9&X&Z&X 9&6&6` P, 9&6&6P Ğ &?|FPPh PPP] n9&X&^&\ 9&6&6`pP 9&R&T3^9&"\9&6Ğ&^_]ːU욀"P9&6&6n9&X&& 9&6&6`嚖t9&>vt9&63P] 9&>Ltr 9&>du.] v ]UVv u3, ȋƙ+T؋ʙùdP ^]ːUWV~9&B&DF&9Eu &9U u&E & Eu 9&&9&6&6KP KP" KF^F9&& u~N؋W&9Du&9T tGG u9&&V uVV‹&?u$~9&>t3"PvW ~^FFG&<u^&7"PvW_9&6&6KP KP" K^9&F&9t&9&>uF&5"PDvP K^_]ːUt9&>vur9&>pu3P, 9&@P"Pr QP PQ9&6&6`r QP9&6&6Z9&@P9&6 "Pr QP PP9&6&6`r QP9&6&6Z9&bF t'P9&6&6"Pr QP $9&6&6 #Pr QP PQ9&6&6`#P9&6&6ZPP9&6&6`r QP9&6&6Z3P9&6^ ]ːt9&>vt&r9&>pt P9&6&6ːU.WV~FL^ }dǹ[FԻ9^֌F&&GtFLBƌ@V~t ‹F& ^&^&GtFF&C~t FF& ^&^&GtFF&D~t FF& ~t$^&^&G@tFF&FFF& ^&^&GtFF&H~t FF& ^&^&GtFF&K~t FF& ^&^&GtyFF&L~ti^&^&GF |@P+# +FP0#PFP FڌҋȎڋ6?t!vNG^F&=uv~~t$^&^&GtFF&MFF& ^&^&GtFF&N~t FF& ^&^&GtFF&S~t FF& ^&^&G tFF&R~t FF& ~t^~&=&At FF&XF&FL^_]ÐUt9&>vur9&>pu9&>u3P9&6+RP9&@P5#Pr QP PQ9&6&6`r QP9&6&6Z PP9&6&6`vv9&6&6ZT]UWV3Pz9`b&?}Tt9&>vuEWĞ`&@PXn9\^&&f&ddP PP9XZ&w&7`dPĞX&w&7ZPĞ`&7‹؋F&?tTPVĞ\&&j&hdP PPĞX&w&7`dPĞX&w&7Z9TV&G& u9&w&7dP A#PdPh PJ#PdP26 V uFPVQQNQ FWV ~uvrĞT&w&7dP M#PdPh 3PdQNQ*6 uqvFP ;PdPFP*6 t@2PPĞX&w&7`Ğ\&&n&lĞX&w&7ZT^_]R$bCLSU.WV4 ع4& &QP( 4+&,&*&(&0&.p4^F&9t&4&9vt4&X&&F4^&?u-~ٹ~t%FFF4&F ~FFFP RP4&6&6 Pr QP r QPB FP RP Pr QP r QPB F ~js)+FFFFFF4^ތF&4&>v% 4^ڌF&4&>x ^&4& 4&9s 4&> t^&3PN։VRQQD~u QPP  tuHtpHtHHtMc uW^&^&ub4&h4&d4&X&& 뤚 u ^&^&u2봎4&h3P4&T4&ht F҉NԐ3^&9?~14&t&4 QPF  uG^&9?ҚHuHuGHtvHu}W4&t ;E2PP] 4&u)FPP 3PvvָP4& u^&^&t4&d4&h4&X&&  u^&^&t밐62PP] 4&u_4&>tPFPP 3PvvָP"2PP] 4&uFFPQ F4&^&?tp4&>vtd4&6&6 Pr QP PP4&6&6`r QP4&6&6ZT4&h3PO QPP 4&^&?tp4&>vtd4&6&6 Pr QP PP4&6&6`r QP4&6&6ZT4&T4&h QPP 4&^&?tp4&>vtd4&6&6 Pr QP PP4&6&6`r QP4&6&6ZT3P5& 5&b4&d5&f4&hPvvָPf3PvvָPQ^_]WV+ &&r & &6&"&& & ع^_ːUVXP FVRP`  uuv2PP] 4&tY uP2PP]  tFF& t*<t&P]  vv`  t'2PP] :] P ] 3^]ːU(WVb5&?u]v vFVF tHt#HuHuHu)F396F~(D Pv vWd u F;6F|ۋ~F &}t=&u&uvv PbP F &u/ PFP 2vvbP F &u&u8 PFP FLJFĞ&7bPE PP T PP V us5&& tZFLJFbP Ğ&7bPW PP f PP VF u-~ uyP4&X&>&< UFPV FPbPh bPP<  uX9F t!bP4&X&B&@ FDF^FFV ~~ t+v vZ RP4&X&F&D PB >Fuy396F~%D Pv vWd t F;6F|96F/~ u=v vZ RP4&X&J&H~F &}t=&u&uvvi PbP F &uy PFP 2vvbP F &u&u PFP F?t5&6&6bP FPbPh F;6F}rFFFFDFDFF+ƉF~vF^^F^FF F NuFbPB  u$9F ubP4&X&N&L?~ ubP4&X&R&P 5&& uĞ&7P PbP  PbP RP D5&& t-Ğ&7P PbP bPB 3^_]U($ 5^ތF&?u5^ڌF&G& u  t6 6 `  udP   5&bF tP^&w&7 PNFP ^&w&7 PNFP FPNFPXX  uDNFPB ^&74&X&&  5&z^&7]39&RzLxL9&9ptI9&9vt>PP9&6&6`#P9&6&6ZT#P| ] 9&$PP] P u 9&X&N&L 3n9&>ptJ9&>vt>PP9&6&6`#P9&6&6ZT$P| PV39&RzLxL9&9ptH9&9vt=PP9&6&6`&$P9&6&6ZT H$P| :] 9&$PP] 3PN tz9&>ptK9&>vt?PP9&6&6`S$P9&6&6ZTu$P| 3P u4^ːUWV9& & VȋڀFV$PSQ $PvW QPr9&QPZ RP$P 9&QPZ RPvW'3FF9&9~Q~9&9>t,$PvvPVZ RPvv G9&9>~$PvW89^F+&G&9Ft QP: '~uZzL0QP: ~9^&G& t-P&w&7vv< ^&GSvW%$PvW~t)9&>^u9&>`t$6$1$+9&t$PvW9&u$PvW$PvW9&> بt+& ~u:& #Ft&ِFtvt &6 بt$`~t6t$PvWt$PvWƨt3$"t$t$ ƨt$PvW9&t~t9&>zu$PvW$PvW$PvWw$PvWh9&>ju9&X&&$ډFVRP9&69&6$PP%Pvv vvvW%PvW9&6&69&6&6:&6&6#%Pvv vvvWB:&6&6:&6&6:&6&60%Pvv vvvW=%PvWD:&&&(0T|RPE%Pvv vvvW vW" 9&$PP] FpP FVv~vvO%PvV vV" PvVj! FPQ\%QJ] PvV" PvVJ] PvvvJ] F~~;~v^^؋NJ*3QNJ*&3ZF;v|։~v] v_%PvV PvV" PvVJ] FF=vP FVvv`  t 2PP]  :&uvv`  t|] u t 3P( -*ui%PvV vV2 ui6`#6^#vVF  uN6p#6n#vvF  t~9&X&&e%PFPW ƋFv2PP] 9&X&&V\2PP]  :&u9&X&&ˎ9&X&&k%PFPV NjFvW 3^_]U WVFdžPƆ{dž8o%:dždž@~%BdžD%FdžH%J+NL9& & vx~prt89 +&G&n9&9ptH9&9vt=PP9&6&6`%P9&6&6ZT %P| T :&P FVpP FV+FF{{<vv~uZ6`#6^#%P~V P~V" P~VJ] ion of pix in ABPF-AG or ABPF-AD ONLY. Moderated. Alt.binaries.pictures.utilities is for the posting of source or binary executables of pictures-related software. Any alt.binaries.pictures groups NOT mentioned above are either "splinter" groups or are otherwise not officially sanctioned because their charter is covered under one of the "official" pictures newsgroups. Any postings to those newsgroups are likely to be rare, and probably will also not get very good propagation to other sites... Comp.sources.misc is a good place for image-viewing source code. Comp.graphics is a good place for discussion of image formats. Alt.graphics.pixutils is for discussion of image format translation. Throughout the remainder of this document, any newsgroup in the alt.binaries.pictures.* hierarchy WITHOUT the '.d' extension (including, but not limited to alt.binaries.pictures.erotica, alt.binaries.pictures.tasteless, and alt.binaries.pictures.misc) will be referred to as "the pictures newsgroups", and those WITH the '.d' extension (including, but not limited to alt.binaries.pictures.d and alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d) will be referred to as "the discussion newsgroups". These two types of newsgroups work basically the same way as the comp.binaries.ibm.pc and c.b.i.p.d groups; one is for posting new material, and one is for discussing posts and other issues. BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF ABP* ETIQUETTE IS: The pictures newsgroups are for pictures ONLY (if it's not a picturmonthly fee, and also provide dial-up services for PCs: netcom.com, digex.com, a2i.rahul.net). Those of you without UseNet access (and therefore no way to access the alt.internet* newsgroups) can get the necessary information via anonymous FTP from pit-manager.mit.edu [18.72.1.58] as the file "/pub/usenet/news.answers/internet-services.Z", on ftp.cs.ruu.nl [131.211.80.17] as the file "/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/internet-services", or from ftp.uu.net [137.39.1.2, 137.39.1.9, or 192.48.96.2] in the file "/usenet/news.answers/internet-services.Z". You can also get the alt.internet.services FAQ via UUCP by retrieving the file "uunet!/archive/usenet/news.answers/internet-services". For an e-mail version of the alt.internet.services FAQ, send a message to mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu with the mail body "send usenet/news.answers/internet-services" or e-mail to mail-server@cs.ruu.nl with "send NEWS.ANSWERS/internet-services" in the body of the message. That said, on to the usage policies of the alt.binaries.pictures* newsgroups: Alt.binaries.pictures.erotica is for erotic pictures ONLY. Erotic (adj): Of or arousing sexual feelings or desires; having to do with sexual love; amatory. ONLY the erotica newsgroups should be used for pictures of human nudity or any form of pornography. Alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d is for the Discussion of pix in ABPE, etc. Alt.binaries.pictures.tasteless is for "tasteless", "bizarre", or "grotesque" pictures ONLY. Alt.binaries.pictures.fractals is for fractal pictures ONLY. Alt.binaries.pictures.misc is for the remaining types of pictures ONLY. Alt.binaries.pictures.d is for the Discussion of pix in ABPT, ABPF, ABPM, etc. Alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.graphics is for the posting of ORIGINAL artwork created using computer programs ONLY. Moderated. Alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.digitized is for the posting of scanned ORIGINAL artwork ONLY. Moderated. Alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.d is for the Discusstorpedo this process: make subject lines which do not follow sequentially. An example: first article's subject: "plane crash GIF: CRSH+BRN (part 1 / 4)" subsequent articles' subjects: "CRSH+BRN (part N / 4)" These subject lines will not be displayed and sorted correctly by NN. However, if you change the arrangement a little, like this: first article's subject: "CRSH+BRN (part 1/4) plane crash GIF" subsequent articles' subjects: "CRSH+BRN (part N/4)" you will please NN-users the world over. VI. ANONYMOUS FTP A word about anonymous FTP and GIF files. When you log onto a remote machine via anonymous FTP, please try to restrict yourself to no more then ten minutes of transmission time, or about five to ten files. As you can imagine, when people discover a new archive of GIF files, they are all hot to download every one they can, and often they jam up the site for *days*. You'll notice this effect the first time some bozo announces the name of a new GIF archive. You won't be able to get through without persistent efforts over several hours or even a day or two. Then the system administrators of that site notice that they have had about $5,000 worth of anonymous FTP over the last two days, and revoke the anonymous FTP privilege. Now every one is screwed. Be considerate; grab only a few files and then let someone else have a chance. This probably won't solve the problem in the long term (still everyone and his dog will be ftp'ing into that machine), but at least it will spread the wealth a bit. As for anonymous FTP sites for erotica pictures, THEY DO NOT EXIST (except of course for that long-standing favorite, 127.0.0.1 - the Internet loop-back address... your own machine, of course!). Even if you find an anonymous FTP site that *appears* to have erotica pictures, it is merely an illusion. As the sage once said, "Revel in your illusions, don't share them." The effects of sharing your illusion in this case *ALWAYS* results in your illusion being rendered non-existent (in one way or another). For this very same reason, it is considered very poor form to ask someone else to share their illusions with you. If you were considering asking for a list of anonymous FTP sites with erotica pictures -- don't. VII. "REPOST" REQUESTS Your absolutely last course of action should be to ask for a repost of an article. There are so very many other ways that the download and decode process could have failed, you should be very sure that none of these steps went south BEFORE asking for a repost. After you have exhausted all of the possibilities from your end, post to the discussion newsgroup and request someone to send you their (working) copy. If enough people post requests of this sort, eventually the original poster will usually re-post it. If you're the only person with a problem, someone is bound to send you the file, and you'll save the net 'hundreds if not thousands of dollars.' Also, just because you've already read an article doesn't mean it has vanished off the face of the earth. It is a fairly simple matter to get back to articles you've already read (unless your site administrator has removed them or they've expired). There are essentially four methods to accomplish this (examples assume you're using rn): 1. Assuming you know the article number(s) of the postings, just enter the article number from within that newsgroup. Voila! 2. Since you probably DON'T know the article number, once you are in the appropriate newsgroup, you can step backwards or forwards through the articles by using "P" (previous) and "N" (next). 3. So you don't know the article number, and you don't want to step backwards through 50+ articles - what now? As long as you remember something from the subject line of the article, you can use regular expressions to search backwards, using the command "?pattern?r", where pattern is the part you remember. For example, you read an article with the word "howdy" in the subject, then decide later you want to get back to that article. Just get into the right newsgroup, then enter "?howdy?r" and rn will search back through all the articles you've read to find the last one with "howdy" somewhere in the title. Not the right one? Enter "?", and rn will retrieve the next-to-last article with "howdy" in the title. 4. You can modify your .newsrc file so that articles are no longer marked as being read (this file usually resides in your home directory). This is especially valuable if you forgot the name of a particular posting, but you know it was in the last ?x? number articles. For example, if your .newsrc file reads: alt.binaries.pictures.misc: 1-2380 ...and you know that the article you're looking for was in the last 30 or so postings, you could edit this line to read: alt.binaries.pictures.misc: 1-2350 ...so that your news reader would think that you hadn't yet seen these articles (of course you'll have to re-sort through many other articles you've already seen, but hopefully you'll at least be able to find the "lost" article!). IMPORTANT NOTE!!: If you edit your .newsrc file, make *absolutely sure* that you aren't currently running a news reader session - this may munge the .newsrc file, or cause other undefined or undesirable side-effects. By using these techniques, you won't have to ask for someone to e-mail you a copy or to re-post the article, since you already have it and know how to get back to it! VIII. TEST POSTS If you're trying out a new method of posting, or if you are posting a picture for the first time, or if it's been a while since you posted a picture and you're not really sure you remember all the details on how to do it right, by all means, PLEASE DO A TEST POSTING FIRST! Test postings should *NEVER* be made in any of the pictures newsgroups or the pictures discussion newsgroups - there are plenty of test newsgroups made for just this purpose (local.test is your best choice, misc.test is also nice). Wherever you do your test posting, make sure to add the line Distribution: local in the heading so your post doesn't go outside your site. Make sure that you can download, re-construct, and view the picture you've posted. Then, when you're satisfied that all is well, post it into the appropriate pictures newsgroup! IX. DEALING WITH THOSE WHO DON'T/WON'T FOLLOW ETIQUETTE How should you react if you notice someone violating any of these items of netiquette? It depends on what they've done, of course. In the case of some posting that you find offensive, the best course of action is just to ignore it. 95% of the time, these people are just trying to pull someone's chain - and they are usually pretty successful (I can't tell you how many megabytes of responses I've seen to just one sentence of crap). Another 3% of the time, someone has left themselves logged in and is having a "joke" played on them by a "friend". The other 2% of the time, they actually believe what they are saying. In this case, do you really think that they care that you find what they say offensive? Especially in the last case, silence does more to thwart their behavior than anything else. Refusing to even acknowledge someone usually damages them more than you could possibly hope to do by responding to them in any way. Don't even waste the time, effort, and money (after all, someone *is* paying for what you say, somewhere) to follow up. In the case of posting a discussion to a pictures newsgroup, probably the *worst* thing you can possibly do is follow-up to the offending posting and yourself violate the same rule! After all, what good are you doing by complaining about someone violating a rule you ignore yourself? If you really *must* follow-up to this type of posting, make sure and edit the Newsgroups: line so that your post is re-directed to the discussion newsgroup. Another technique you might try is just ignoring the post - if enough people did this, it's entirely likely that there would soon be no discussion at all in the pictures newsgroups, except for the occasional newbie or someone not wise enough to read this FAQ - and they'd learn eventually. I suggest the following course of action, in order of preference: 1) Respond via e-mail. Gently suggest that they take discussion to the discussion newsgroup. Answer the question/request if you can. Suggest that they read this FAQ to get more information and to better understand pictures newsgroup etiquette. 2) Follow-up only if you can answer the question/request, re-directing your posting to the appropriate discussion newsgroup (edit the Newsgroups: line). Suggest that they read this FAQ to get more information and to better understand pictures newsgroup etiquette. 3) Ignore the posting. They'll most likely get the hint eventually. 4) Follow-up only if you can answer the question/request, re-directing the follow-ups of your posting to the appropriate discussion newsgroup (edit the Followup-to: line -- your posting will go to the pictures newsgroup, but anyone following up to your posting will go to the discussion newsgroup). Gently suggest that this type of posting belongs in the discussion newsgroup, and that that's where follow-ups have been re-directed. Maybe even throw in a small uuencoded picture at the end of your posting, just to make it "legal". Suggest that they read this FAQ to get more information and to better understand pictures newsgroup etiquette. The more people that respond in a positive way, the fewer the flame wars, and the more pictures vs. discussion will end up in the pictures newsgroups! That *is* what we're here for, after all! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HISTORY OF THIS FAQ: This file originally began life as the FAQ for alt.sex.pictures, and was first created and maintained by Dave Read (readdm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu). Minor changes and a few additions to clean it up a bit and make it a little more relevant to the alt.binaries.pictures group were made by Steven M. Quinn (steveq@umbc5.umbc.edu). A hierarchy of pictures groups (all under alt.binaries.pictures) was put into place in the fall of 1991, and since that time, Jim Howard (deej@cadence.com) has come forward to take over the maintenance of the "new" FAQ. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgements (part 1): * Thanx to both James Ralston Crawford (qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu) and Silver (gaynor@blaze.rutgers.edu) for input and suggestions on posting volume. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's about it for the "general etiquette" information. General pictures information is continued in part 2 of this FAQ. If you have any suggestions for things to include in future versions, don't hesitate to let me know... ~ deej ~ | (If I were expressing Cadence's opinions, ) Jim Howard -- deej@cadence.com | (they'd probably make me wear a tie... ) (^:= Flames cheerfully ignored. =:^) "He's dead, Jim" -- Dr. "Bones" McCoy, on nearly every episode of Star Trek