The World of Ham Radio CD-ROM From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:34 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!usenet From: Joe Fitter BV/N0IAT Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Rain "static" on a dipole ... what causes it Date: 1 Feb 1996 01:33:00 GMT Organization: Texas Instruments Asia, Taipei TAIWAN R.O.C. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4ep58c$3dc@tilde.csc.ti.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.167.36.115 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Been meaning to ask this question for a while now.. I notice that my 2 element spider quad, and a 20 meter dipole both exhibit s-9 rain induced static. The static is not like static crashes, but a constant s-9 noise. No NB is able to cure this problem. The 3 element, aluminum yagi does not experience this kind of static. It makes no difference whether the clouds are charged electrically, or, if it is just a constant steady rain. When the rain stops...so too does the noise. So, now for the $2 question: why does this happen? I suspect the HF yagi is matched via gamma match or some other approach that puts the entire driven element at dc ground. I know the dipole is not shunt to ground, nor is the quad. Am I getting close? or, some other near vicinity item is creating the static only when the rain falls and getting into the quad and dipole but not effecting the aluminum yagi. Any ideas? Joe From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:35 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!wrdis02.robins.af.mil!lakeith From: lakeith@robins.af.mil (Larry Keith) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 3x3x1/4 aluminum angle stock?? Date: 1 Feb 1996 02:24:03 GMT Organization: Robins AFB, GA Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4ep883$46o@wrdis02.robins.af.mil> NNTP-Posting-Host: wrdis01.robins.af.mil X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0L1] Does anyone have a good source for small (less than 3 ft) pieces of 3x3 aluminum angle stock, 1/4 in thick? 73, Larry Keith, KQ4BY lakeith@robins.af.mil From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:36 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!usenet From: gmyers@mcs.com (Gary Myers) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Why is man-made RFI vertically polarized? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 02:36:36 GMT Organization: Self Lines: 39 Message-ID: <4ep91h$8gr@Jupiter.mcs.net> References: <4e8qfj$ntn@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> <4e98jh$2t4@Jupiter.mcs.net> <4egojl$2qki@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: gmyers.pr.mcs.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 drranu@holly.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (Emarit Ranu) wrote: >Gary Myers (gmyers@mcs.com) wrote: >: Gauss' law requires that the electric field must always be >: perpendicular to a conductor. Since manmade rfi usually arrives by >: ground wave (as opposed to skip), the electric field is perpendicular >: to the conducting earth, i.e., vertically polarized. > Actually Gauss' Law for electric fields states that the electric > flux through any close surface equals the charge enclosed (remeber > the closed integral around a surface of the scalar product of flux > denisty and differential surface is equal to Q enclosed). > Conversely Gauss' Law states nearly the same for magnetic quantities > except the quanty of the intergal is zero (no such thing as a > magnetic charge). Where the electric flux density D is replaced > by the magnetic flux density B. Maxwell's equations state the same > thing by use of the del operator. >: Ok, ok, that's more than 25 words... >: Gary K9CZB >: gmyers@mcs.com >-- > -Emarit, KG0CQ 73's drranu@holly.ColoState.EDU > Electrical Engineering, Colorado State Univeristy > Packet: KG0CQ@KF0UW.#NECO.USA.NOAM > All generalizations are bad. Censorship: ###### > _._ __. _____ _._. __._ You are right, of course. It would have been more accurate (and more grammatically correct) for me to say, "As a consequence of Gauss's Law..." Perhaps WA3WDR said it best. -- 73, Gary K9CZB From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:37 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!xpat.postech.ac.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!taebaek.nowcom.co.kr!imci3!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ferengi.prismnet.com!usenet From: rew5808 Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew Subject: WTB: lafayette, allied electronics & heathkit catalogs Date: 1 Feb 1996 05:12:37 GMT Organization: PrismNet - (512)-418-1568 Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4epi45$d2r@ferengi.prismnet.com> References: <4ehl14$sep@crl11.crl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-1-14.reallink.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.shortwave:69533 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18802 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24425 rec.radio.amateur.misc:97589 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13069 I am looking for some lafayette radio, allied electronics, and heathkit catalogs from 1957 thru 1965. would appreciate any help and/or any leads you can give me. thanks bobby wb5wur From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:38 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!aimnet.com!news.exodus.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!ferengi.prismnet.com!usenet From: rew5808 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.swap,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew Subject: Re: WTB: lafayette, allied electronics & heathkit catalogs Date: 1 Feb 1996 05:51:45 GMT Organization: PrismNet - (512)-418-1568 Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4epkdh$d8v@ferengi.prismnet.com> References: <4ehl14$sep@crl11.crl.com> <4epi45$d2r@ferengi.prismnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-1-14.reallink.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:97615 rec.radio.shortwave:69565 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18825 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24451 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13080 I am looking for some lafayette radio, allied electronics, and heathkit catalogs from 1957 thru 1965. would appreciate any help and/or any leads you can give me. thanks bobby wb5wur From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:39 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.comm.net!imci3!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ferengi.prismnet.com!usenet From: rew5808 Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew Subject: wtb: allied, lafayette, heathkit catalogs Date: 1 Feb 1996 06:06:59 GMT Organization: PrismNet - (512)-418-1568 Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4epla3$dd5@ferengi.prismnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-1-14.reallink.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.swap:56499 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18793 rec.radio.amateur.misc:97578 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13062 i would appreciate any help i can get in locating some spare lafayette radio/electronics, heathkit, or allied electronics catalogs from 1957 thru 1965. thanks bobby wb5wur From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:40 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.localnet.com!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!waikato!news From: spearce@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: nec documentation Date: 1 Feb 1996 09:42:21 GMT Organization: The University of Waikato Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4eq1tt$r3a@thebes.waikato.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.83.104.17 X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) Is there any documentation describing the use etc of NEC available via the internet? From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:41 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!waikato!news From: spearce@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Ionospheric models and simulations Date: 1 Feb 1996 09:46:09 GMT Organization: The University of Waikato Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4eq251$r3a@thebes.waikato.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.83.104.17 X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) Is there any freely available software that will simulate ionospheric propoga tion of a given hf signal I.e. you give it a time series of data, a modulation scheme and a frequency a nd it models the signal over a given path (tx and rx positions given) for various times of day/year/sunspot number etc. Idea is to simulate reception for various modulation schemes. From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:42 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news2.ee.net!news.ee.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!citi2.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!swsbe6.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!newshost.vu.nl!cs.vu.nl!sun4nl!rnzll3!sys3.pe1chl!rob From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City/Repeater Use Reply-To: pe1chl@wab-tis.rabobank.nl Organization: PE1CHL Message-ID: References: <4efpb3$pt2@alpha.sky.net> <310B8C36.5D9@magnum.wpe.com> <4elgqo$q73@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:20:31 GMT Lines: 45 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.policy:32990 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18873 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24534 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13113 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13948 In <4elgqo$q73@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> sparkfel@primenet.com (Mark Fellhauer) writes: >rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) wrote: >>In <310B8C36.5D9@magnum.wpe.com> Eddie Caffray wri tes: >>> On the 146.85 repeater here in Central NY we had trouble with one user als o. He made it that >>>no one would even monitor the reapeater anymore. The club voted to ban him and we did. The >>>reapeater is a great place to be again. >>How do you manage to effectively ban malicious users from a repeater? >>Of course this problem is known all over the world, but at least over >>here we have not yet found an effective way of stopping them. How do >>you do that? >Go to the Arizona Repeater Association's Home Page to see how this is >done. It involves actively pursuing people who engage in such >activity. The ARA, as a matter of routine, has an interference >committee dedicated to tracking these people down. >Despite reports to the contrary, the FCC does frown on this activity, >and will enforce sanctions. Just ask the people here in Phoenix about >that. An NAL, Notice of Apparant Liability, carries a stiff monetary >fine, about $20,000 (US) worth and forfeiture of ALL broadcasting >equipment and license(s). Hmmm... it looks like HDTP (or equivalent of the FCC) does not put out such drastic sanctions. Normally one will lose the license for a year or so, and one could get a fine of maybe $500. This does not seem to stop some people... when you have been reading the BBSes, you can see that the wellknown person that causes havoc on the local packet network is still active. He is fully known by name, ex-callsign, and address. (he just uses callsigns of other people, mainly VERON officials, to post offensive messages. he was also active on the phone repeater sometime, transmitting over those same people, but I think he has lost interest in that) Rob -- +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Rob Janssen rob@knoware.nl | BBS: +31-302870036 (2300-0730 local) | | AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU | +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:44 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Transformer for Screwdriver type antenna Date: 1 Feb 1996 10:22:09 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 56 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4eqlr1$kor@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <310F9363.16DD@aries.scs.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <310F9363.16DD@aries.scs.uiuc.edu>, "C. J. Hawley" writes: >. I find that multiple taps are >necessary when the efficiency of the antenna is improved on the low bands. As > >the losses are eliminated, then the impedance of the short antenna say on >160M begins to get down to a few ohms (if you're lucky). The antenna rad >resistance of the short antenna on 160M is well below an ohm, the rest of the > >ohms being due to losses. This should give you a clue as to the efficiency of > >the commercial screwdriver antenna on the low bands if only one tap is >necessary for a match. Some of my friends have gone to the parallel cap for >the match in an attempt to improve the efficiency of the method of the match >adjust over the tapped toroid, but I haven't found my tproid to be too much >of a detriment. I measured the ground resistance of my F-250HD Supercab long bed truck and it is around 15-20 ohms (depending on soil) in series with a several hundred pF on 160. It is impossible to get down to a "few ohms" unless your vehicle is .4 wl in radius. Going from the worst coil I had (Q ~150) to the best (Q ~ 350) there is almost NO difference in feedpoint impedance, bandwidth, or system efficiency. The ground losses swamp out the effect of changes in coil resistance! It's better to concentrate on increasing radiation resistance by making the current distribution linear over the entire radiator than messing with coils and matching systems. Going from base loading to top loading can increase efficiency by a factor of four, while it took a coil Q change from 50 to 350 to make an efficiency improvement of only 2.3 times! Remember the formula for efficiency, Rrad/Rrad+Rloss * 100 and that R loss always contains ~17 ohms of ground loss on my BIG truck. So with a coil reactance of 3000 ohms (big hat used) and Q of 350 the ESR of the coil is 8,6 ohms, with a Q of 50 coil ESR is 60 ohms. If Rrad is 0,1 ohms the efficiency is 0,3% for a coil Q of 350, eff is 0,13% for the Q of 50. I want a big signal, so I quit messing with the coil and matching methods and concentrated on installing the tallest top loaded antenna I could on the truck. By the way, the bandwidth on 160 is more dependent on the L/C ratio than the efficiency of the system. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:45 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news2.ee.net!news.ee.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!citi2.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!swsbe6.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!newshost.vu.nl!cs.vu.nl!sun4nl!rnzll3!sys3.pe1chl!rob From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City Reply-To: pe1chl@wab-tis.rabobank.nl Organization: PE1CHL Message-ID: References: <4efpb3$pt2@alpha.sky.net> <310B8C36.5D9@magnum.wpe.com> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:22:49 GMT Lines: 23 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.policy:32994 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18882 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24545 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13120 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13951 In dbaker@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us (Donald I. Baker) writes: >Technical solutions do exist. Using a "TX-ID" board, which uniquely >fingerprints each transmitter and a PC one can "slectively" include or >preclude individual users. >The board was not meant for that purpose, but with just a little Basic of C >codes, it workd just fine. It is especially easy if you have a single or >limited number of receive site. Is that using some public key encryption technique? If not, what is preventing the malicious from cloning one of the apparently valid codes? Also, what is preventing the malicious user from just keying up over other people's transmissions, thus rendering the repeater useless? Rob -- +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Rob Janssen rob@knoware.nl | BBS: +31-302870036 (2300-0730 local) | | AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU | +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:46 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!pirates!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: EWE Antenna Date: 1 Feb 1996 11:06:11 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 24 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4eqodj$ll6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4eoneu$njg@news01.aud.alcatel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4eoneu$njg@news01.aud.alcatel.com>, sander@aud.alcatel.com (dick sander) writes: > >I also was given the name of Industrial Comm Engr, LTD. >at 1-800-423-2666 for impedance xfmrs and preamps. >I called and ordered a 180A xfmr @ $39 and a 123B preamp @ $45. >The preamp is protected so there's no need to ground the antenna >while xmting. It is 22 to 25 dB gain w/1.4dB NF from 1.8 to 2 Mhz. > >I've got 150 ft in which to run the receiving ant, so I'm >going to try 10 ft high X 150 ft long. My fingers are crossed > >73, Dick - K5QY The pre-amp seems reasonable but the transformer sure is expensive. What active device does the pre-amp use? The responses highlight the need to test antennas when they are modeled close to the ground. The performance is much worse than the computer indicates. Several of the comments I received were that even very short "Beverages" worked much better than the Ewe. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:48 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news2.ee.net!news.ee.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!zetnet.co.uk!demon!ifwtech.demon.co.uk!G3SEK From: "Ian White, G3SEK" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: WANTED : GREAT 80 METER DX ANTENNA Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:24:09 +0000 Organization: IFW Technical Services Lines: 43 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4elaj2$j89@usenet.continental.com> <4ep8v4$8rl@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 1.11 <9qI82xurdT5+z2vSgnCPFcKgQL> In article <4ep8v4$8rl@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, W2FOE wrote: >I think the 1/2 wave vertical is ideal for the really long haul dx. >Unfortunately I don't think there is that much "really long haul" dx. I >just ran a quick plot (using Beezley's AO) on a 4 square - the maximum >elevation angle for 1/4 wave elements is 24 degrees; for 1/2 wave elements >is 16 degrees. Unfortunately AO won't give you the right answer, because it's a MININEC derivative and ignores ground losses when calculating the gain. It does take account of ground losses when calcuating the far-field pattern, but that still does not include the efficiency penalty. The pattern will have about the right shape, but the maximum gain figure needs to be scaled-down by several dB. ON4UN points out that contrary to what you might imagine, the gain and vertical pattern of a half-wave vertical are *more* dependent on ground quality than they are for a quarter-wave. Using NEC, he estimates that even over "good" ground there may be a loss of 6dB compared with the ideal situation. Because the current loop is high above ground level, ground reflection from a half-wave vertical takes place over a larger radius than it does for a quarter-wave, so a much larger area of ground is involved. If you tried to "condition" the ground using radials, they would need to be at least two wavelengths long to achieve similar efficiency to a quarter- wave using 0.25wl radials. Because of the greater length there would also need to be a lot more of them (maybe 8 times more, based on maintaining the same separation between the ends of the radials). Bottom line: a half-wave vertical may have too low an radiation angle for the low bands, and it will also be less efficient. ON4UN's calculations estimate that with practical radial systems the quarter- wave scores by several dB at the wave angles required for DX. Surprising? It certainly surprised me... but it does make sense when you stop and think about it. 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:49 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: WANTED : GREAT 80 METER DX ANTENNA Date: 1 Feb 1996 13:46:58 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 29 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4er1r2$onc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article , "Ian White, G3SEK" writes: > >Bottom line: a half-wave vertical may have too low an radiation angle >for the low bands, and it will also be less efficient. ON4UN's >calculations estimate that with practical radial systems the quarter- >wave scores by several dB at the wave angles required for DX. > >Surprising? It certainly surprised me... but it does make sense when you >stop and think about it. > > >73 from Ian G3SEK And another bottom line is also that, to my knowlege (and I've been looking at this for almost a year now), NEC has never been verified for real world ground systems or low horizontal wires! So be careful with any low wire parallel to the earth, the results may vary wildly from full blown NEC models! My own tests, tests of a low dipole done for the US Military, and commercial BC station data indicates there can be a 4-6dB shortfall in signal from NEC predictions on low wires like elevated radials or low dipoles. So caution is advised.... 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:50 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bison.alfred.edu!kato.theramp.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx02-45.teleport.com!user From: tvine@teleport.com (PjB) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Rooftop ant. for radio? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 16:20:38 -0800 Organization: thornyvinemusic Lines: 16 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-45.teleport.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30 Hi gang.....I just moved into a new apartment bldg. It was built in the 50's and it is a rather large structure 12 stories tall. The original TV antenna system is on the roof and I am told it still works. There is a jack on the wall in the living room. I am wondering if I might utilise this with my scanner. I'd need to find out what kind of connection is in the wall (its about 1/2 inch wide, circular, kind of looks like a little crown, with indentations around the circumference) and then rig a BNC connector on the other end going into the scanner. Questions: Would this work? The antenna is placed so well I'm very anxious to try it. Also, what kinds of reception could I expect? I assume UHF/VHF, but anything else? Could this damage my scanner in any way? Thanks for reading this. I'm fairly new to radio so I apologize for what are probably obvious things. Rgds Tvine From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news2.ee.net!news.ee.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.ios.com!usenet From: macino@mail.fwi.com@fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help calculating transmission power Date: 1 Feb 1996 16:32:36 GMT Organization: Internet Online Services Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4eqpv4$11r@news.ios.com> References: <4ehf8e$bhl@shadow2.qnetix.ca> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com@fwi.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.235.86.126 X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <4ehf8e$bhl@shadow2.qnetix.ca>, academie@saglac.qc.ca (Acadimie du Savoir) writes: > >|----(-------------------------------------------------------------10 km----- ---------------------------------------------->)----| >| | >| frequency=10 Ghz | >| | >| | >| | >___ ___ >Transmitting Receiving > >Gain= 10db Gain=40 db > >What is the transmitting power if the signal is recieved at -80 dBm? > >Please give me an answer in dBm and in Watts > >Thanks is advance, an answer would be very welcomed > >P.S. If you could answer before monday 29 4 p.m. it would be great > >Brad Wilson >Canada > Brad, you gave no transmitter output power. You will have to start with some v alue. Pull down TEEREV.ZIP off the ARRL BBS. It'll get you started. Jim WD9AHF From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:52 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnews.wa.com!uw-coco!uw-beaver!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.flint.umich.edu!news.gmi.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!newsfeed.pitt.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!casaba.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!news.sesqui.net!compassnet.com!usenet From: Spencer Petri Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Finco 6&2 Date: 1 Feb 1996 16:49:22 GMT Organization: Compass Net, Inc. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4eqqui$l4v@saratoga.compassnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial55.e-tex.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Any of you fellows have an old Finco 6&2 antenna out in your garage or down in the basement? 73 de Pete WA5JCI EM-21 From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:53 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bga.com!realtime.net!nntp4.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!snooze.ser.bbnplanet.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!nntp2.cerf.net!news.claremont.edu!drivel.ics.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "faq" Date: 1 Feb 96 17:05:24 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 14 Message-ID: <199602011705.JAA04794@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Index of Frequently Asked Questions hem-onc_seminars iamslic info-hams kelptank mmc nel novell packet-radio qigong socal-raves-calendar socal-raves-digest socal-raves soul From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:56 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!voder!nsc!news From: "Al Koblinski (W7XA)" Subject: Re: Mounting a Cushcraft R5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: To: kingbp@ka1fqt.mv.com Sender: news@nsc.nsc.com (netnews maintenance) Nntp-Posting-Host: akoblinski.nsc.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:16:08 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-Url: news:DLw81I.2nD@mv.mv.com Lines: 14 I have used the R4 (similar) at 8ft above ground (1ft above roof eave) and 40 ft above ground (6 ft above 3rd floor roof) with excellent DX results in the San Francisco bay area. There seem to be certain heights above ground that are not recommended due to far field cancellations (ground reflections). I have had poor results at the 15 - 20 ft above ground (on 40 mtrs) but did not research it much. For mounting, I used a TV mast from radio shack in both installations. There is very little wind loading so it doesn't have to on be a fencepost sized base (unless it makes you feel better). Regards, Al From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:57 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!Tagada.grolier.fr!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!citi2.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!swsbe6.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!voder!nsc!news From: "Al Koblinski (W7XA)" Subject: Re: Loops!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: To: hrsil@flinet.com Sender: news@nsc.nsc.com (netnews maintenance) Nntp-Posting-Host: akoblinski.nsc.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara References: <4eh0ck$pnk@news.flinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:28:55 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-Url: news:4eh0ck$pnk@news.flinet.com Lines: 12 I would appreciate a little detail on your horizontal loop. Band/ and a little design info. I built the K6STI loop from QST and have been unimpressed. I can get a good match to 50 ohm line, I can get it to resonate, I can get low SWR (low power) but it doesn't improve the signal to noise on either 40 or 80 meters. (I did build it half size and possible that is the problem although the original article alludes to smaller sizes would improve SNR...and work the same). I would appreciate your response and comments. Regards, AL From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:22:58 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!saluki-news.wham.siu.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: pat@wf9h.COM (Pat Hamilton) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V96 #43 Date: 1 Feb 96 17:41:58 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 38 Message-ID: <199602011849.MAA05482@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu > I believe the state of Florida passsed a law that was suposed to > prevent local zoning from preventing ham towers, anyone have any > info on it??? If so I would like to get a copy. > > thanks > > Dave hand wb4hyp > dhand @ microdes.com Greetings Dave, Yes, Florida did indeed enact such a law. Unfortunately it did not stop the problems. I lived in Florida (Tampa) for a bit over three years and there was at least one case where some folks put up a couple towers in a rural area and literally went through hell over it. I cannot provide particulars on Florida's law but I think a note to a fellow I know down there would get you some answers. His name is Warren and his call is WA1GUD. A really decent guy and well informed on new developments in that neck of the woods. His internet address is or not too long ago was elly@gate.net He can also be reached via packet at WA1GUD@WA1GUD.TPA.FL.USA.NA He may have some printed matter he could send you. Tell him I said hello. Good luck and 73 Pat Pat Hamilton, WF9H pat@wf9h.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:00 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub2!ncrcae!news From: Tom Skelton Subject: Re: WANTED : GREAT 80 METER DX ANTENNA Message-ID: Sender: news@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM (news) Reply-To: Tom.Skelton@ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM (skeltt) Organization: NCR X-Newsreader: DiscussIT 2.5.1.3 for MS Windows [AT&T Software Products Division] References: <4eo1lk$ov7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:26:24 GMT Lines: 74 >==========W8JI Tom, 1/31/96========== > >Hi Paul, > >In article <4elaj2$j89@usenet.continental.com>, Paul Christensen > writes: > >>Tom: >> >>I would think that a 1/2 al vertical would be tough to beat for the >>really long-haul DX on 160. I had always envisioned my dream >antenna for > >>160 as a 190-degree Pi-Rod tower, guyed with Phillystran, and >mounted on >>a three-foot concrete base pier with a Blaw-Knox glass base insulator. >>Of course, the foundation for the 190 degree radiator found its >>beginnings with Ballantine's 5/8 wl radiator in 1923, but I believe it >>was Brown, Lewis, et. al., who then optimzed the length to 190 >degrees in > >>an effort to maximize ground-wave radiation (through the ubiquitous >>multi-wire ground system) and minimize skywave radiation with the 190 >>degree radiator. The problem as I see it, we as amateurs rarely have a >>need to maximize ground wave radiation. A byproduct of this >however, is >>that an extremely low launch angle can be taken advantage of for the >>mega-long DX. > >I have limited experience with half wave and 5/8 verticals on 160. We >tested some BC towers for contest use, and "horse raced" against my 1/4 >wave at home several nights. They never worked well at all, even into EU. >So I quit. > >Now 80 is another story. I could A/B an 80 1/4 wl against my 160 >insulated >tower (1/2 wl on 80) and night after night the 1/4 wl was better >everywhere except across town. >I attributed it to too low a launch angle, and the uncontrolled ground >losses some distance from the antenna eating up the low angle signal. > >Another problem also exists. If the incident angle is too low far when >transmitting well below the OWF or MUF, the signal skims along the >ionosphere and losses are very high. The losses are much lower at a >sharper angle, its a cleaner hop. > >>Back to reality: There was an interesting article in the August, 1994 >>issue of QST, entitled "The 160-Meter Sloper System at K3LR" >-pp. 36-38. >>This antenna system takes >>.snip> > >Best 160 antenna I ever used was a dipole at 330 feet or so. I want one >again. It beat my 1/4 wl vert by 10 dB into Eu night after night, and out >received my Beverages by a bunch! Thats all I want, I'm not greedy. > >73 Tom > > How the heck did you get a dipole for 160 meters at a height of 330 ft? It would be interesting with the recent openings on 160m to Japan to do an A/B with a high dipole (i.e., >100m above ground, broadside NW/SW] and the 1/4 wl vertical. 73, Tom WB4iUX From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:01 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail From: "Thomas L. Gaines, Sr." Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: HELP!!DOUBLE BAZOOKA Date: 1 Feb 1996 19:22:03 GMT Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4er3sr$i2l@alterdial.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.251.143.110 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) I need information on a double bazooka antennae. IE; formula for cutting and feeding information(matching stubs, etc). 73 N5ISE/Tom Gaines From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:02 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!news From: "R. Bruce Winchell" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: 1 Feb 1996 19:40:29 GMT Organization: winco Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4er4vd$lvu@spectator.cris.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cnc04577.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) To: ericr@access.digex.net Eric, you can get some info and plans from: Antennas West - PO Box 50062 Provo, UT 84605. I just ordered their TNT 160. Also check with Radio Works Box 6159 Portsmouth, VA 23703. They make them as well. You can also buy the plans from Antennas West. I personally chose the TNT over the Radio Works Carolina Windom because I liked the insulated wire that they use vs the open copper-clad wire. The open copper-clad wire will corrode eventually along it's entire length. The corrosion acts as millions of little capacitors that gain minute static charges and make the antenna increasingly noisy as time passes. 73 KC8ARO Bruce From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:03 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!news From: "R. Bruce Winchell" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Tower Selection Advice Sought Date: 1 Feb 1996 19:49:39 GMT Organization: winco Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4er5gj$lvu@spectator.cris.com> References: <310E63F9.15AB@ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cnc04577.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) To: jimw9wu@ix.netcom.com Jim, After having experienced a couple of tower crashes over the years I will tell you that the use of the common 1 and 2 bolt towers at the height you designated - without the use of guy wires - is flirting with disaster. I won't go over 30 feet without guys. 73 KC8ARO Bruce From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:03 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!news From: "R. Bruce Winchell" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: 1 Feb 1996 20:04:19 GMT Organization: winco Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4er6c3$lvu@spectator.cris.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cnc04577.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) To: n4lq@iglou.com I disagree. What you are looking for is a time-proven antenna called a WINDOM. There is a danger of in-shack RFI if you attempt this OCF. The feedline becomes a radiator when you have an unbalanced line. You have to control it. You MUST use an in-line Isolation Balun (Line Isolator). This will turn your feedline into a Vertical Radiator and add another dimension to your antenna!!! It will also virtually eliminate RFI problems. Write for catalogs from Radio Works, Box 6159, Portsmouth,VA 23703 and Antennas West, PO Box 50062, Provo, UT 84605 for antennas, pieces/parts and plans. 73 KC8ARO Bruce From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:05 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!news From: "R. Bruce Winchell" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: 1 Feb 1996 20:14:06 GMT Organization: winco Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4er6ue$lvu@spectator.cris.com> References: <4eoa8b$1b5t@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cnc04577.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) To: cmoore@sedona.intel.com Cecil, The antenna is called a WINDOM. Check the ARRL Antenna Handbook and write to Antennas West, PO Box 50062, Provo, UT 84605 and Radio Works, Box 6159, Portsmouth, VA 23703 for catalogs of pre-built antennas, pieces/parts, and plans. Don't try to run an unbalanced line without using a feedline isolator/balun to stop the RFI. Without a line isolator the RFI will reset your alarm clock at 100 yards. 73 KC8ARO Bruce From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:05 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Bazooka Antenna Design Date: 1 Feb 1996 20:26:32 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4er7lo$grs@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu N9puf said Does anyone have a design for a Bazooka antenna? I'm told their good on 160 M. I could ask, good in what way? Since the loss in the quarter wave sections is a function of the square root of frequency and the length it seems to me that the loss will be higher on loweer frequency bands such as 160. Tales of immunity to height etc... are not valid. The increased bandwidth is more a product of the diameter of teh coax shield forming the antenna than the small compensation of the shunting stubs. Charlie, W7XC -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:06 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!news From: "R. Bruce Winchell" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Safe distance between dipole feedpoint and metal mast? Date: 1 Feb 1996 20:26:52 GMT Organization: winco Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4er7mc$lvu@spectator.cris.com> References: <4eo55l$rvm@news.cc.oberlin.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cnc04577.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) To: pruth@alpha.cc.oberlin.edu Hi, The only info I have found on this topic is from the Radio Works antenna catalog. They recommend using a tower stand-off of 6 to 10 feet of PVC pipe of 2 or 3" dimension; at the apex. Further comment is given to the location of the feedline take-off point. For the T.O.P., they recommend that it be at least 15 feet from the tower. This is for Windom antennas. If you are running a center-fed wire, it would be my guess that the 15 foot dimension would hold true. At your present 5-6" setting you are nearly shunted to the tower. 73 Bruce KC8ARO From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:07 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!taebaek.nowcom.co.kr!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Rain "static" on a dipole ... what causes it Date: 1 Feb 1996 20:29:59 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 32 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4erpen$4c2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ep58c$3dc@tilde.csc.ti.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Joe, In article <4ep58c$3dc@tilde.csc.ti.com>, Joe Fitter BV/N0IAT writes: >So, now for the $2 question: why does this happen? > >I suspect the HF yagi is matched via gamma match or some other approach >that puts the entire driven element at dc ground. I know the dipole is >not shunt to ground, nor is the quad. Am I getting close? If the noise is a high pitiched sizzle that gets worse and the pops and disappears when lighting flashes, it is from corona discharge. Tiny streamers trail from your antenna into the air. This is most noticable with high antennas using thin or pointed conductors. Sharp point increase the charge concentration and increase the occurance of streamers (or corona) in a storm. The cure is blunt, thick conductors and keeping the antenna close to the ground. Thick unbroken insulation will also help distribute the charge. >or, some other near vicinity item is creating the static only when >the rain falls and getting into the quad and dipole but not effecting >the aluminum yagi. > That's possible, or perhaps it's because the yagi is a thicker and smoother conductor. Less voltage gradient (charge concentration at sharp points), less corona. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:09 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news2.ee.net!news.ee.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!iglou!n4lq From: Steve Ellington Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? In-Reply-To: <199602012003.PAA08421@franklin-fddi.cris.com> X-Sender: n4lq@iglou X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) References: <199602012003.PAA08421@franklin-fddi.cris.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:37:11 GMT Lines: 65 I have Radio Works silly catalog with all the antennas that are Austonding, Amazing, Unbleivable etc. Yes even the buck of string with a weight on it for only $$$. The amazing but little know DOUBLE BAZOOKA that bost signals to strangely heafty levels that even buffalos the engineers. bla bla bla etc. Balderdash! The Windom in it's original form was fed with a single wire. I tried it once and put a nice burn on my lip from the microphone. Now, we have this so -called Windom using balanced line, 300 ohm or 450 or whatever, feeding a very unbalanced antenna. YES, the feedline will radiate like crazy! Is this what we desire? On 20 meters and above we end up with a very directional antenna with some gain in certain directions and deep nulls in others. Does anyone care? Line Isolators..... Well depending on feeder length and freq. of operation you may get a really hot choke with lots of power loss. I know this because I tried it. You will end up cranking on an antenna tuner before it's all over anyway so why bother with feeding an antenna off-center when we know it's asking for trouble? He just wants 80 and 40 meters anyway. With parallel dipoles, there is little concern for RF on the rig, no tuner needed and no baluns required. This Windom stuff reminds me of the G5RV hype. Same old thing. A crummy compromise antenna that can be made to work on all bands using a tuner and enough lossy coax with a high swr to make tuning easy. Package it as an all-band antenna kit, charge $49.95 and they sell like hotcakes. Time does not prove anything except that...Given enough time, people will try anything over and over even when it doesn't make good sense. 1. Use a balanced antenna 2. Feed it with a matched feeder 3. Enjoy operating 1. Use a balanced antenna 2. Feed it with balanced open wire line 3. Use a tuner 4. Enjoy operating but cranking the tuner 1. Use an unbalanced antenna 2. Feed it with anything 3. Use a tuner, line isolator etc. 4. Anything might happen. Have fun > I disagree. What you are looking for is a time-proven antenna called a > WINDOM. There is a danger of in-shack RFI if you attempt this OCF. The > feedline becomes a radiator when you have an unbalanced line. You have to > control it. You MUST use an in-line Isolation Balun (Line Isolator). This > will turn your feedline into a Vertical Radiator and add another > dimension to your antenna!!! It will also virtually eliminate RFI > problems. Write for catalogs from Radio Works, Box 6159, Portsmouth,VA > 23703 and Antennas West, PO Box 50062, Provo, UT 84605 for antennas, > pieces/parts and plans. 73 KC8ARO Bruce > > > Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:10 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: MUENZLERK@uthscsa.EDU (Muenzler, Kevin) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: FAQ Date: 1 Feb 96 20:39:00 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 10 Message-ID: <01I0PB0T10XE001F3C@uthscsa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu luckleslie@aol.com (Luckleslie) writes: -Does anyone know where I can get a FAQ file on Antennas. The ARRL Antenna Book or The ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook. Those are a good start for almost everything you ever wanted to know about antennas and feedlines. Kevin, WB5RUE muenzlerk@uthscsa.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:11 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!news From: "R. Bruce Winchell" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Rain "static" on a dipole ... what causes it Date: 1 Feb 1996 20:39:08 GMT Organization: winco Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4er8dc$lvu@spectator.cris.com> References: <4ep58c$3dc@tilde.csc.ti.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cnc04577.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) To: joentam@transent.com.tw Joe, I'd be willing to bet that the wire on your quad and dipole are of the open stranded variety. The corrosion along the length of the wire will increasingly worsen and the corrosion becomes a zillion little capacitors that stores static energy from friction and atmospheric electrical activity. When this discharges, you get noise. The rain may have a different ionic polarization and this makes the entire situation worse. Recommend you go to solid enameled wire on your quad and an insulated wire on your dipole. This stops the corrosion effect. RF does not "see" the insulation or enamel. 73 KC8ARO Bruce From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:11 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.interport.net!usenet From: Michael Neidich Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Patch antenna Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 20:44:58 -0800 Organization: Interport Communications Corp. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <311196CA.3BCC@interport.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: neidich.port.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) To: Jean-Yves Perrier Patch antennas are described in modern antenna design books. They are primarily useful at microwave frequencies and arrays of them can give gain and directionality. Not much application to lower freq bands. Very difficult to make unless you know what you are doing. 73, K2ENN From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:12 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.interport.net!usenet From: Michael Neidich Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Rooftop ant. for radio? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 20:48:15 -0800 Organization: Interport Communications Corp. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <3111978F.454D@interport.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: neidich.port.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) To: PjB Some of the apartments used a plate with an RCA plug available in some repair shops. Trouble is that the amplifier between the antenna and the coax may be dead, or the wiring not intact. You would be better off with a whip sticking out the window. If you put a .01 uf capacitor between the scanner and the house wire you will protect it, anyway. From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:13 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1!ind-004-236-177 From: mai@iquest.net (Patrick Croft) Subject: Re: FAQ X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ind-009-237-107.iquest.net Message-ID: Sender: news@iquest.net (News Admin) Organization: IQuest Network Services X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1 References: <01I0PB0T10XE001F3C@uthscsa.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:40:24 GMT Lines: 14 MUENZLERK@uthscsa.EDU (Muenzler, Kevin) wrote: > > luckleslie@aol.com (Luckleslie) writes: > -Does anyone know where I can get a FAQ file on Antennas. > >The ARRL Antenna Book or The ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook. >Those are a good start for almost everything you ever wanted >to know about antennas and feedlines. > >Kevin, WB5RUE >muenzlerk@uthscsa.edu Just remember that because something is in print, it isn't the perfect bible. Some excellent info, some BS too. From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:14 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!xband.ni.net!user From: blanton@ni.net (J. L. Blanton) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Inverted V or long wire? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 22:14:04 -0800 Organization: Network Intensive Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <1771BA38ES86.TJB94002@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: xband.ni.net In article <1771BA38ES86.TJB94002@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>, TJB94002@UConnVM.UConn.Edu wrote: > ...I am considering putting up an inverted V at about 50' then moving to a full dipole... An inverted v is a full dipole (except for the shape). I think the V shape reduces the nulls off the ends that a normal linear dipole would have. In that respect the inverted V has a slight advantage over a dipole if you want coverage in all directions. 73, Lee, WA8YBT/6 From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:15 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!globe.indirect.com!imci4!imci3!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!comp.vuw.ac.nz!usenet From: Richard Hulse Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CCD antennas Date: 1 Feb 1996 23:13:02 GMT Organization: Radio New Zealand Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4erhdu$nff@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz> References: <4eh2m9$p7n@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz> <012996183404Rnf0.79b6@ham.island.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: kgill.dialup.netlink.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: rs@ham.island.net Bob, Thanks for the info. I'll seek out those books asap Regards Richard Hulse ZL2AJC From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:16 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bison.alfred.edu!kato.theramp.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: jimkeesl@iserv.NET (Jim Keesler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: My vote for best 80M Antenna Date: 2 Feb 96 00:18:00 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 21 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Bext 80M DX antenna I've seen is a 4-square design with 4 quarter-wave verticals, each having good radial ground system (32 +) and fed thru matching and power divider circuits like broadcast AM systems. With the symmetry, you can switch the feedline sequence and "rotate" the pattern in each of the four major directions. When adjusted correctly, the front-to-back ratio can be better than 20 db--enough to give you four different 80-meter bands at the flip of a switch! The design was in a series of magazine articles a few years back--try contacting Maury, W8EMD---an old AM Broadcast engineer and antenna whiz. He built one at age 70+ and measured its pattern with an AM Broadcast field strength meter (read expensive and accurate!) . I'd suggest a letter to his callbook address and arrainge for a phone call QSO. Tell him I gave you his name! 73, Jim, K8EXF Running 10KW to a 10-db gain superturnstyle antenna at 1000 feet near 6M--also known as TV Ch. 3 in Kalamazoo, MI ! From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:17 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: 2 Feb 1996 01:37:39 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 20 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4esbfj$b5d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4er6c3$lvu@spectator.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article , Steve Ellington writes: > >The Windom in it's original form was fed with a single wire. I tried it >once and put a nice burn on my lip from the microphone. Now, we have this >so -called Windom using balanced line, 300 ohm or 450 or whatever, >feeding a very unbalanced antenna. YES, the feedline will radiate like >crazy! Is this what we desire? > The two wire line doesn't have to radiate. If you install a choke balun at the antenna terminals it won't radiate if the source feeding the line is balanced. If the line is coax and the balun is used the source has to be ground independent or a typical unbalanced output. Lot's of variables apply when things are mixed and matched! 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:18 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!news.tamu.edu!news From: mluther@tamu.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: WANTED : GREAT 80 M Date: 2 Feb 1996 02:24:53 GMT Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4ersll$9gi@news.tamu.edu> References: <8B9E2CB.02CF000696.uuout@cencore.com> Reply-To: mluther@tamu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.194.44.221 X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <8B9E2CB.02CF000696.uuout@cencore.com>, forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) writes: >MM> Whole array is fed with DX Engineering phase box a-la Collins style. > >MM> Tune each tower to exactly the same format with an MFJ combo SWR >MM> and impedance bridge. They all are perfect matches size wise tower >MM> tower. Hook up the phase delay lines, hook up the line to the shac > >This array requires equal current to each element. If you >measured it, I'd be very interested in what you see for range >of current at each element as you switch the array thru its >four directions. > > * RM 1.3 02583 * I'm having a deja vu experience, just like last time As the time permits, I'm going to set up to do exactly this. The actual performance of the thing on the 40 Meter version shows about 25DB F/B and what I think to be about 6DB gain, it is uniform, or seems to be so, around the compass through its pattern. As with most folks, in that it seems to work more or less like the book says it should work, once I get that far, I lose interest in fooling any more with it to get the precise figures down. I'm inadequate as a researcher, I guess and might as well admit it. Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tamu.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:19 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.accessone.com!news From: vbook@vbook.com (Ed Mitchell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,alt.radio.scanner,alt.radio.pirate Subject: February edition of Ham Radio Online available on the Net Date: 2 Feb 1996 03:27:46 GMT Organization: Virtual Publishing Co. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4es0bi$nb@news.accessone.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vbook.accessone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:97617 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32951 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13911 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24455 rec.radio.scanner:44858 rec.radio.shortwave:69567 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18827 alt.radio.scanner:27128 alt.radio.pirate:13346 The February 1996 edition of Ham Radio Online is available at http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm New articles are available now and we will be adding 1 to 2 new articles each week. Ham Radio Online has up-to-date news about Amateur Radio from around the world , feature stories, real-time propagation and auroral condition reports, real-tim e earthquake and severe weather conditions for emergency communications planning , online humor section and the Ham Radio Online Library with fully indexed (find any section with just a mouse click) Part 97 rules and regulations. And we plan to offer some totally cool new services during the coming month. A s always its free and free of ads. Thanks to you, we had over 10,000 readers stop by during January! Please enjoy! 73, Ed Mitchell KF7VY vbook@vbook.com http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm ------------------------ personal email to vbook@vbook.com Visit Ham Radio Online, it's free, at http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:21 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.encore.com!psoper From: psoper@encore.com (Pete Soper) Subject: Insulated elements Organization: Encore Computer Corporation Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 04:16:38 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@encore.com (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sysgem1.encore.com Lines: 37 Hello, I need some help understanding how to adjust for the capacitance of insulated antenna elements. The popular literature suggests the electrical shortening caused by element insulation is 2-3%. However my recent (trivial) experiments suggest this might be a too low estimate for my situation. Using #10 "THHN" single conductor stranded house wire (the type here in the States with a thin clear plastic sheath over a thicker pvc insulation) I measured around 12% shortening of the electrical length of the elements of a dipole (that is 12% shorter than the common 468ft/fmhz rule of thumb for dipoles made of uninsulated wire. The frequency involved was 15mhz) I want to conclude from this that for my models I would simply adjust the element lengths by 12% when going between the model and "real world" elements made with this wire. However the difference from the shortening effects I've read about are bothersome. Is the 12% figure reasonable? Are there any hard figures for actual types of insulated wire I could consult? If I could determine the capacitance per unit length could I compute the effect on its electrical length? And are there any subtle factors that would keep the above "model to real world" translation of element lengths from being valid? Finally, one antenna I'm investigating uses 450 ohm insulated ladder line as one of its driven elements. I assume this balanced feeder (driven from a short on one end) will be electrically shorter than it would be if it wasn't insulated. The question is, how much? Is it simply equivalent to the velocity factor of the line? And if it is, could I perhaps measure the velocity factor of two pieces of THHN laying next to each other and then compute the value for a single conductor somehow? (I have an Autek RF-1) Regards, Pete ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pete Soper (psoper@encore.com) KS4XG 1+ 919 481 3730, 481 3868/FAX Encore Computer Corp 901 Kildaire Farm Rd Cary, NC 27511 USA From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:22 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!chaos.aoc.nrao.edu!newshost.nmt.edu!rutgers!fdurt1.fdu.edu!xyzzy.bubble.org!newshost.cyberramp.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!usenet From: Joe Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Rain "static" on a dipole ... what causes it Date: 2 Feb 1996 06:57:32 GMT Organization: Texas Instruments Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4escks$7df@tilde.csc.ti.com> References: <4ep58c$3dc@tilde.csc.ti.com> <4er8dc$lvu@spectator.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.167.36.115 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: winco@cris.com "R. Bruce Winchell" wrote: >Joe, >I'd be willing to bet that the wire on your quad and dipole are of the >open stranded variety. The corrosion along the length of the wire will >increasingly worsen and the corrosion becomes a zillion little >capacitors >that stores static energy from friction and atmospheric >electrical activity. When this discharges, you get noise. The rain may >have a different ionic polarization and this makes the entire situation >worse. Recommend you go to solid enameled wire on your quad and an >insulated wire on your dipole. This stops the corrosion effect. RF does >not "see" the insulation or enamel. 73 KC8ARO Bruce Hi Bruce, Thanks for the tip. Actually, the Quad and the Dipole are both made from insulated stranded copper wire. Interesting bit on the stranded versus solid wire, though. Perhaps this is occuring even though the wire is insulated by black and red pvc. I'll try changing the wire and see what happens. Thanks, Joe From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:23 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.localnet.com!ub!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!ieunet!news.tcd.ie!usenet From: butler@ee.tcd.ie Subject: Re: Help calculating transmission power Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.tcd.ie (TCD News System ) Organization: Teltec, MEE, Trinity College Dublin X-Newsreader: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:28:38 GMT Lines: 52 >In <4ehf8e$bhl@shadow2.qnetix.ca>, academie@saglac.qc.ca (Acadimie du Savoir) writes: >> >>|----(-------------------------------------------------------------10 km--------------------------------------------------->)----| >>| | >>| frequency=10 Ghz | >>| | >>| | >>| | >>___ ___ >>Transmitting Receiving >> >>Gain= 10db Gain=40 db >> >>What is the transmitting power if the signal is recieved at -80 dBm? >> >>Please give me an answer in dBm and in Watts >> >>Thanks is advance, an answer would be very welcomed >> >>P.S. If you could answer before monday 29 4 p.m. it would be great >> >>Brad Wilson >>Canada >> Received Power (at receiver) = -80 dBm Receive antenna Gain = 40 dB Therefore Received power at receiver antenna = -120 dBm. For distance 10 km and frequency 10 GHz, assuming free space path, the loss is 132.44 dB (32.44+20*log10(10000)+20*log10(10)). Therefore EIRP of Transmitter antenna = 12.44 dBm. Transmitter output power = 12.44 - 10 = 2.44 dBm = 1.75 mW. Above assumes no losses in the feeders, which are not already included in the Tx and Rx antenna gains. Also note that the free space path assumes no atmospheric absorption or diffraction/refraction losses. Dr. Gerry Butler, CEng. MIEE. [butler@ee.tcd.ie] TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin 2,Ireland Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering, [ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ] From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:24 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uoregon.edu!mars.efn.org!haus.efn.org!jbowman From: John Bowman Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Safe distance between dipole feedpoint and metal mast? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:11:08 -0800 Organization: Oregon Public Networking Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <4eo55l$rvm@news.cc.oberlin.edu> <4er7mc$lvu@spectator.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: haus.efn.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <4er7mc$lvu@spectator.cris.com> Am running G5RV off 45 ft. metal mast w/out standoffs, except it (feedline) is out away from mast at apex at about 40-45 degree angle. It works great. Windom--plan to put one up at my summer place and would appreciate any info. (specs) on the one you are using or plan to use. Length, suggested height, what type of feedline--open latter or other? Concerns about RF into the shack, etc. I have a friend (silent key now) who had one in a community mobile home court--he worked Paris, Berlin etc. with it. Just purchased a book entitled, "Your Ham Antenna Companion" by Paul Danzer, N1ll. published by the ARRL. It's a great little book--cuts through alot of misconceptions and is user friendly. But, I was surprised to read on 3-57 (HF antennas) that the WINDOM is NOT recommended for use today. The article goes on to state that hams using this antenna often had problems with RF floating around in their shack. And they go on to say--if you want to use a single wire feed, just put up an end fed long wire w/a good ground system. Back to you--john N7RVW From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:25 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!primus.ac.net!news.cais.net!xara.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!caesar!david From: david@comms.ee.man.ac.uk (David Tait) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: nec documentation Date: 2 Feb 1996 13:09:33 GMT Organization: Manchester University Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4et2ed$9a8@yama.mcc.ac.uk> References: <4eq1tt$r3a@thebes.waikato.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: caesar.ee.man.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] spearce@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz wrote: : Is there any documentation describing the use etc of NEC available : via the internet? There is the start of something here: http://www.cici.com/~richesop/nec/index.html David -- David Tait, Tel: +44 (0)161 275 4504 Electrical Engineering Dept, Fax: +44 (0)161 275 4512 The University, Radio: G0JVY Manchester, M13 9PL, UK. E-mail: david.tait@man.ac.uk From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:26 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!aimnet.com!netserv.com!pagesat.net!a3bsrv.nai.net!mgate.arrl.org!news From: Zack Lau Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Testing co-axial filter Date: 2 Feb 1996 15:06:41 GMT Organization: American Radio Relay League Lines: 33 Message-ID: <4et9a1$384@mgate.arrl.org> References: <4eh1de$svn@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zlau.arrl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) tomb@lsid.hp.com (Tom Bruhns) wrote: this line=RG-8 >> why would I want to use a 16" piece of this line >> to make a resonator with that Q, when I could just >> as well wind a coil half an inch in diameter and >> half an inch long and get just as high a Q? (reformatted) Coaxial resonators have a nice properly of being self shielding. Thus, you can often get acceptable results without spending a lot of time building metal shields or spending a fortune in die cast boxes. Even if you do have a nice metal shop for making shields, they often aren't practical for quick experimental lashups--you have to take things apart to make the necessary modifications. The coax may be easier to add to a piece of existing equipment--it might be bent to fit the existing space. That said, I might look around hamfests for semi-rigid coax and sections of Hardline to use instead of RG-8. It also makes a bit more sense on 70/33cm, as opposed to 2 meters. Zack KH6CP/1 From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:27 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!vulcan.netdepot.com!thebe04.netdepot.com!user From: charlie@netdepot.com (Charlie Fortner) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: opinions on Diamond antennas?? Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 19:17:07 -0500 Lines: 3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: thebe04.netdepot.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.1.3 I'm thinking about buying a Diamond 2m/440 mobile along with the hideaway trunk mount. Is Diamond a reputable company, and if so, is the mount and antenna worth the $120 AES wants? From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:28 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!cougar.olivet.edu!tiger.olivet.edu!mhaydon From: Michael Haydon Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: EWE Antenna Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:33:53 -0600 Organization: Olivet Nazarene University Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <4elpgt$r59@news01.aud.alcatel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tiger.olivet.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <4elpgt$r59@news01.aud.alcatel.com> Spoke with Floyd Koontz abt 6 mos prior to publication of his ewe article, as he was finishing testing. the transformer is a 3:1 TURNS RATIO therefore a 9:1 IMPEDENCE RATIO best route would be to order small (1/2 inch) toroidal cores from amidon associates (no minimum order) they will guide you to proper style based on you r operating freq. Built one of these antennas, the 160/80m compromise, found results to be good when used with 15db preamp. On 30 Jan 1996, dick sander wrote: > Has anyone built and tested the EWE 160m receiving > antenna described in an article by WA2WVL in Feb '95 QST? > > How well does it work? > > Are there any sources for the 3:1 transformer (kits) > and any suggestions on a preamp? > > 73, Dick - K5QY > > > > > From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:29 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!cougar.olivet.edu!tiger.olivet.edu!mhaydon From: Michael Haydon Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: EWE Antenna Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:40:46 -0600 Organization: Olivet Nazarene University Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: <4eo236$p21@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4eoneu$njg@news01.aud.alcatel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tiger.olivet.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <4eoneu$njg@news01.aud.alcatel.com> The 150 lenght is a mistake, the ewe antenna is actually a pair of extremely short VERTICAL antennas, the top wire being used for phase delay, NOT a receiving element. On 31 Jan 1996, dick sander wrote: > >Has anyone built and tested the EWE 160m receiving > >antenna described in an article by WA2WVL in Feb '95 QST? > > > >How well does it work? > > > >Are there any sources for the 3:1 transformer (kits) > >and any suggestions on a preamp? > > > >73, Dick - K5QY > > /Hi Dick, I did a survey on Topband net with users. > / > /Responses 11. Good or OK 4, poor or no good 7. > / > /Most comments indicate the EWE was better than a tx antenna, unless the tx > /antenna was directional or in a rural location. Even short Beverages > /always > /seemed to beat the EWE. F/B results ranged from poor to good, but there > /was > /no way to tell the reason for this from the responses. I suspect proximity > /to > /other antennas, soil conditions, or failure to de-couple the feedline from > /the antenna was the cause. > / > /73 Tom > > Thanks Tom, > > I found one local 160m DXer and one response via email. Both said the > beverage for them was better than the EWE. > > I also was given the name of Industrial Comm Engr, LTD. > at 1-800-423-2666 for impedance xfmrs and preamps. > I called and ordered a 180A xfmr @ $39 and a 123B preamp @ $45. > The preamp is protected so there's no need to ground the antenna > while xmting. It is 22 to 25 dB gain w/1.4dB NF from 1.8 to 2 Mhz. > > I've got 150 ft in which to run the receiving ant, so I'm > going to try 10 ft high X 150 ft long. My fingers are crossed > > 73, Dick - K5QY > > > > > From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:31 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!globe.indirect.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!cougar.olivet.edu!tiger.olivet.edu!mhaydon From: Michael Haydon Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:49:57 -0600 Organization: Olivet Nazarene University Lines: 81 Message-ID: References: <199602012003.PAA08421@franklin-fddi.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tiger.olivet.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: OR--- put up as long a "dipole" as you have space for. use open wire line. don't worry about the SWR if your radio will load into it. judge how well your antenna works by how many people you can talk to. note that i said "TALK TO!!!", not "you are 59 please qsl goodbye. On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Steve Ellington wrote: > I have Radio Works silly catalog with all the antennas that are > Austonding, Amazing, Unbleivable etc. Yes even the buck of string with a > weight on it for only $$$. The amazing but little know DOUBLE BAZOOKA > that bost signals to strangely heafty levels that even buffalos the > engineers. bla bla bla etc. Balderdash! > > The Windom in it's original form was fed with a single wire. I tried it > once and put a nice burn on my lip from the microphone. Now, we have this > so -called Windom using balanced line, 300 ohm or 450 or whatever, > feeding a very unbalanced antenna. YES, the feedline will radiate like > crazy! Is this what we desire? > > On 20 meters and above we end up with a very directional antenna with > some gain in certain directions and deep nulls in others. Does anyone > care? > > Line Isolators..... Well depending on feeder length and freq. of > operation you may get a really hot choke with lots of power loss. I know > this because I tried it. You will end up cranking on an antenna tuner > before it's all over anyway so why bother with feeding an antenna > off-center when we know it's asking for trouble? > > He just wants 80 and 40 meters anyway. With parallel dipoles, there is > little concern for RF on the rig, no tuner needed and no baluns required. > > This Windom stuff reminds me of the G5RV hype. Same old thing. A crummy > compromise antenna that can be made to work on all bands using a tuner > and enough lossy coax with a high swr to make tuning easy. Package it as > an all-band antenna kit, charge $49.95 and they sell like hotcakes. > > Time does not prove anything except that...Given enough time, people will > try anything over and over even when it doesn't make good sense. > > 1. Use a balanced antenna > 2. Feed it with a matched feeder > 3. Enjoy operating > > 1. Use a balanced antenna > 2. Feed it with balanced open wire line > 3. Use a tuner > 4. Enjoy operating but cranking the tuner > > 1. Use an unbalanced antenna > 2. Feed it with anything > 3. Use a tuner, line isolator etc. > 4. Anything might happen. Have fun > > > > > > I disagree. What you are looking for is a time-proven antenna called a > > WINDOM. There is a danger of in-shack RFI if you attempt this OCF. The > > feedline becomes a radiator when you have an unbalanced line. You have to > > control it. You MUST use an in-line Isolation Balun (Line Isolator). This > > will turn your feedline into a Vertical Radiator and add another > > dimension to your antenna!!! It will also virtually eliminate RFI > > problems. Write for catalogs from Radio Works, Box 6159, Portsmouth,VA > > 23703 and Antennas West, PO Box 50062, Provo, UT 84605 for antennas, > > pieces/parts and plans. 73 KC8ARO Bruce > > > > > > > > Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky > > > From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:35 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!inews.intel.com!itnews.sc.intel.com!chnews!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: 2 Feb 1996 20:27:08 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 10 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4ets2s$17gc@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <4eoa8b$1b5t@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4er6ue$lvu@spectator.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cmoore.ch.intel.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) "R. Bruce Winchell" wrote: >The antenna is called a WINDOM. Hi Bruce, as I said over email, the original "Windom" did not use twin-lead. T he writeup in my 1957 ARRL Handbook shows "Windom" to be a modern misnomer for twin-lead-fed OC Fs. But trying to keep the language pure seems to be a losing proposition. Like G5RVs without an y coax. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:36 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Transformer for Screwdriver type antenna Date: 2 Feb 1996 20:38:33 GMT Organization: IONet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4etso9$t9d@ionews.ionet.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: osip06.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: paul@n5xcr.ampr.org Paul Reedy wrote: >as a friend of mine tried making a screwdriver ant. and went back to >his Hustler after not being able to get his SWR down. Your friend might as well have used a resistor in series with the antenna for matching as go to a hustler. The reason that a hustler is easy to get the swr down is that it has a very low Q coil that looks like a resistor at Rf. This works good for matching but very bad for antenna efficency. Tell him to go back to the screwdriver and try a little harder. There are many ways to match the base impedance of a mobile antenna some discribed in the ARRL antenna Handbook. You can even use a antenna tuner. Contrary to popular opinion doesn't even need to be at the antenna end of the coax. The losses of coax with moderate swr are very small at hf frequencies. If you are using a old tube rig dont even be concerned with the swr. just tune the antenna for resonance and let the pi network take care of the mismatch. 73 Hank WA5JRH From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:36 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!oitnews.harvard.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news4.ner.bbnplanet.net!news.ner.bbnplanet.net!usenet.continental.com!usenet From: Paul Christensen Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: HELP!!DOUBLE BAZOOKA Date: 2 Feb 1996 22:09:47 GMT Organization: Continental Cablevision Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4eu23b$8ld@usenet.continental.com> References: <4er3sr$i2l@alterdial.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.152.167.72 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: tgaines@datastar.net Avoid this antenna. It's broad bandwidth is achieved with smoke, mirrors and wasted power in the form of stub heating. Read the other Bazooka newsgroup thread. -Paul, N9AZ From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:38 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.wwa.com!news From: lenrev@wwa.com (Len Revelle) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Tower Selection Advice Sought Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 02:46:13 GMT Organization: WorldWide Access (tm) - Chicagoland Internet Services (http://www.wwa.com) Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4euigf$rkk@kirin.wwa.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: vh3-007.wwa.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Tell your friend to check out the U.S. Tower crank up series. I have the 455 (55') and have been very pleased for three years now. majewski@spsd630a.erim.org (Ron Majewski) wrote: >Hello- >A friend of mine is thinking about putting up a new tower and >is looking for advice/information about tower options. His >desire-ments are: > 60-80ft height > self-supporting to avoid guy wires > tilt-over or telescoping for easy installation/service > 20 sqft wind load capacity >Is such a combination possible to achieve? >Please share your thoughts and experiences with him. Please >Email to me and I will forward things to him. >Thanks and 73, >Ron (wb8ruq). >majewski@erim.org > >-- >Ron Majewski (majewski@erim.org) >The Environmental Research Institute of Michigan From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:38 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help calculating transmission power (2 msgs)" Date: 3 Feb 96 04:06:21 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199602030406.UAA20805@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "calculating" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:39 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.orst.edu!news.PEAK.ORG!billn From: billn@PEAK.ORG (Bill Nelson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Inverted V or long wire? Date: 3 Feb 1996 07:16:23 GMT Organization: CS Outreach Services, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR, USA Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4ev247$47i@odo.PEAK.ORG> References: <1771BA38ES86.TJB94002@UConnVM.UConn.Edu> <4ehkld$buo@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: peak.org X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Richard MacDonald (dickmac@ix.netcom.com) wrote: : >I don't have my ticket, but I am listening mostly on 80M using a 160' piece : >of wire strung from my basement window through the trees about 8' high. I a m : >considering putting up an inverted V at about 50' then moving to a full dip ole. : >Is it worth the effort for listening? The long wire runs east to west. Are ther : >there any easy tuner circuits that can improve the long wire performance? I am : >listening on an HW101. : I've never had any reason to go from an inverted V to a "full dipole." All o f : the inverted V's that UI have had were full dipoles but were shaped to match 50 : ohm coax. I don't believe there is any real advantage to a flat dipole over the : V. When you slope the legs of the "V" at about 45 degrees below horizontal, the antenna becomes essentially non-directiona. The obvious advantage of the "flat" dipole is the directivity - which may reduce undesired interference off the ends of the antenna. : A tuner will help a bit but not as much as a higher tuned antenna with some : radials. For DX listening a vertical may work well also because of better lo w I never worried about a tuner on even a "flat dipole". The modest VSWR, due to the mismatch, is not sufficient to harm the rig. You could probably feed it with 75 ohm coax, rather than 50 ohm, to reduce that mismatch at the feedpoint. The transmitter matching network should be able to match to the 75 ohm line without problems. Bill From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:41 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Interference with lamps Date: 3 Feb 1996 12:26:46 GMT Organization: IONet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4evka6$eo9@ionews.ionet.net> References: <4ek79r$a3t@server1.oxford.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: osip36.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: gcollins@Oxford.net gcollins@Oxford.net (Gordon Collins) wrote: > We have a lamp on the second floor of our home. It is one ofthose >lights wich is operated by touching it. (trilight). Whenever I tune up >my rig in the basement the lamp starts to turn on and proceed through >all three cycles. It is very annoying. > My antenna is a centrefed dipole cut for 40M. It is strung >between two treest at approximately the same hight asthe second floor >but about twenty feet away. > Does anyone have any ideas on how to correct this problem? > I had a different problem with one those lamps. It caused interferance on my hf receiver. I found a simple cure that I am sure will work in you case also. Get rid of the lamp. 73 Hank WA5JRH From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:42 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!iglou!iglou.com!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou.com (Kenny Anaskevich SLIP/PPP) Subject: Re: G5RV X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) References: <4eoa8b$1b5t@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4er6ue$lvu@spectator.cris.com> <4ets2s$17gc@chnews.ch.intel.com> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:20:18 GMT Lines: 21 In G5RV's article which is the ARRL Ant. Compendum, G5RV recommends NO COAX as the preferred method of using the antenna for multiple bands. The coax was intended to be used ONLY on 20 meters where there is a reasonable match between the twin lead and the coax. The reason we get low swrs with the magic minimum of 70ft of coax is because of the tremendous attenuation (loss) of coax under high swr conditions. The swr just appears lower at the transmitter because of the excessive loss. Coax loss can make a 10:1 swr read 1.5:1 by the time it travels through 70ft of small coax. Try using some heavy coax like RG-9913 and although your losses will decrease, the swr will appear much higher. G5RV knew this when he wrote the article but he has been ignored because of the HYPE and the MONEY made on G5RV KITS. Oh sure. We get good signal reports etc. Shuck, I get good 599 reports on my mobile rig using an 8ft Hamstick antenna! That doesn't mean a thing folks. If I run inside and fire up the 560ft loop I also get 599 but now I'm 20db stronger! -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:43 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!inquo!vyzynz!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: EWE Antenna Date: 3 Feb 1996 16:21:43 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 30 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4f0jl7$qlc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article , Michael Haydon writes: >Subject: Re: EWE Antenna >From: Michael Haydon >Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:40:46 -0600 > >The 150 lenght is a mistake, the ewe antenna is actually a pair of >extremely short VERTICAL antennas, the top wire being used for phase >delay, NOT a receiving element. > > > I wonder if anyone bothered to tell the flat top it isn't supposed to receive? It may not know that! ;-) What makes the flat top NOT receive substantial signal in any EWE? If we want two short out of phase verticals, why put them up and feed them with coax? Or use a system that looks like a big rectangle with the short side vertical and a 180 degree twist in the middle? From the side it would look like two lazy triangles with the noses touching and the connection between them transposed. (Actually I had a system like that in 1976 that was several WL long that employed many "loops") 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:44 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Loops!!!! From: kg7ck@prostar.com (Kg7ck) Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!clio.trends.ca!io.org!winternet.com!news.minn.net!skypoint.com!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!news3.noc.netcom.net!prostar.com Message-ID: <0000121B0000065B@prostar.com> Date: 3 Feb 96 16:50:28 PDT Organization: ProStar Plus Internet Lines: 6 I have used a horizontal loop for 7years. I feed it with 450 ladder line and mfj 949 tuner. Use it on all hf bands. Is about 160 Meters. Use it more than my th5 beam. Bill KG7CK From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:45 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!news.bu.edu!transfer.stratus.com!news3.near.net!monk.proteon.com!news From: dts@peanut.senie.com (Daniel Senie) Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Message-ID: <4f042o$5gh@peanut.senie.com> Lines: 39 Sender: news@proteon.com Nntp-Posting-Host: peanut.senie.com Organization: Daniel Senie Consulting References: <4eoa8b$1b5t@chnews.ch.intel.com> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:55:52 GMT In article <4eoa8b$1b5t@chnews.ch.intel.com>, Cecil Moore wrote: >ericr@access2.digex.net (Eric Rosenberg) wrote: >> >>I'm looking for information on hte off-center fed dipole, as mentioned by >>Bill Orr in CQ Magazine last year and briefly written up in the ARRL >>Antenna Book. > >Hi Eric, I ran one of these in college. The antenna is 180 degrees (half-wave ) >on 80m and 360 degrees (full-wave) on 40m. Since sin(60deg) = sin(120deg), a >point 1/3 from the end will give approximately the same impedance for 80m and >40m. IMO, it still needs an antenna tuner but is not a bad match for 300 ohm >ladder-line. Radiation pattern favors the long section. I'll agree with Cecil that this antenna design can work just fine. The one I've used was made by Antennas West, but the design is quite simple so if I put up another one, I may just build it myself, instead. The design of the one I use is a 1/2 wave on 40 meters, fed 1/3 of the way from one end, rather than in the center. The feedline is coax, with ferrite bead balun about a foot below the feedpoint, and I add another bead balun where the antenna connects to my remote switching network. Some RF does couple to the shield of the feedline, even with the balun at the feedpoint, so the other choke balun helps keep from having RF come back to the shack on the shield. The antenna tunes within a 2:1 SWR on 40, 20 and 10. This is a GREAT antenna for someone starting out with HF, as in combination with an auto-tuner found in most new rigs, it will perform quite well. I do highly recommend this approach over the "put up as long a dipole as you can" approach, especially for newcomers. It allows for quicker and easier setup. Dan N1JEB -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie Internet: dan@senie.com, Daniel Senie Consulting n1jeb@senie.com http://www.senie.com Packet Radio: N1JEB@KA1SRD.MA From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:47 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!shore!news3.near.net!monk.proteon.com!news From: dts@peanut.senie.com (Daniel Senie) Subject: Re: EWE Antenna Message-ID: <4f04cb$5jn@peanut.senie.com> Lines: 46 Sender: news@proteon.com Nntp-Posting-Host: peanut.senie.com Organization: Daniel Senie Consulting References: <4elpgt$r59@news01.aud.alcatel.com> <4eo236$p21@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:00:59 GMT In article <4eo236$p21@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, W8JI Tom wrote: >In article <4elpgt$r59@news01.aud.alcatel.com>, sander@aud.alcatel.com >(dick sander) writes: > >> >>Has anyone built and tested the EWE 160m receiving >>antenna described in an article by WA2WVL in Feb '95 QST? >> >>How well does it work? >> >>Are there any sources for the 3:1 transformer (kits) >>and any suggestions on a preamp? >> >>73, Dick - K5QY > >Hi Dick, I did a survey on Topband net with users. > >Responses 11. Good or OK 4, poor or no good 7. > >Most comments indicate the EWE was better than a tx antenna, unless the tx >antenna was directional or in a rural location. Even short Beverages >always >seemed to beat the EWE. F/B results ranged from poor to good, but there >was >no way to tell the reason for this from the responses. I suspect proximity >to >other antennas, soil conditions, or failure to de-couple the feedline from >the antenna was the cause. > >73 Tom Did anyone else notice that the recent QST article never once gave a translation for what "EWE" means? Is it a sheepish little antenna? If so, why the caps. If it's an acronym, then Spell the thing out. If it's named after someone, mention it. I was quite disappointed with the article for not bothering to mention the genesis of the design. Anyone here know what it is? Dan N1JEB -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie Internet: dan@senie.com, Daniel Senie Consulting n1jeb@senie.com http://www.senie.com Packet Radio: N1JEB@KA1SRD.MA From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:48 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!mars.hyperk.com!usenet From: kend@srv.net (ken durstine) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: opinions on Diamond antennas?? Date: 3 Feb 1996 17:16:54 GMT Organization: none, if I can help it Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4f05a6$n2k@mars.hyperk.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pm_ras99.srv.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ In article , charlie@netdepot.c om (Charlie Fortner) says: > >I'm thinking about buying a Diamond 2m/440 mobile along with the hideaway >trunk mount. Is Diamond a reputable company, and if so, is the mount and >antenna worth the $120 AES wants? I have a diamond SG2000 (I think) two meter collinear with a folding gutter mo unt I love. It has a hal f wave base section that gives consistent performance when I have a load of stuff on my roof racks. I could be setting out in the desert with 5 or 6 o ther rigs and be the only rig with a clear signal from a distant handheld. works for me From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:48 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ground Radials...? Date: 3 Feb 1996 17:49:20 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4f0770$ck5@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu K8EXF wrote Plan on at least 1/4 wavelength for the lowest band desired. F can only penetrate a few inches of soil. There is litle point in going out 1/4 wave with the 16 to 32 radials metnioned. At 1.9 MHz ONE skin depth is about 20 feet. See ARRL Antenna Book Ch 3 or Terman Radio engineer's Handbook. Charlie, W7XC ###1 ###1 -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:49 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.uoregon.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!inews.intel.com!itnews.sc.intel.com!chnews!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: QST Auto Tuner Date: 3 Feb 1996 20:19:35 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 7 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cmoore.ch.intel.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Finally got to read the auto-tuner article. Does it strike anyone else as overkill when 17 relays and 16 tuning components are used for only 8 bands? 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:50 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.localnet.com!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!xara.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!EU.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.ios.com!usenet From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Free software Date: 3 Feb 1996 21:06:22 GMT Organization: Internet Online Services Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4f0ioe$o0b@news.ios.com> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup24.fwi.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 Hi, I posted a similar note on rec.radio.amateur.homebrew. I placed a program on the ARRL BBS called TEEREV.ZIP. It's TEEREV, because the original TEE.ZIP had become corrupted on the ARRL BBS ? Anyway, if you pulled the original, and it works, your ok. If it doesn't, the replacement TEEREV.ZIP is out there. The program estimates EIRP for a variety of feedline types, length of feed, po wer out, reflected power, indicates loss, calculates SWR, and allows you to simula te the settings dynamically along with imaginary antenna gains. It just about doe s everything but eat. This version will run with Dos/windows 3.1. If any one has tried it out, I'd like some feedback. The ARRL BBS is 860-594-0306. I think the download tim e is like 4 seconds! It's only about 14K in size. You will need the 300K+ VBRUN3 00.DLL that is found on the QRZ CDROM or on the ARRL BBS as well. From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: jastorm@ix.netcom.com (Jim Storm) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: J-Pole Antenna Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 23:18:54 GMT Organization: ix.netcom.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4f0qgv$8gt@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> References: <4f0pbu$ac6@reader2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-smx-ca3-07.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Feb 03 3:18:55 PM PST 1996 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 n6rhl@ix.netcom.com (David Dean) wrote: >Where does the center conductor of the coax connect on a J-Pole >antenna. The 19" stub or the 59" pole? Please help. Thanks. Dave >David Dean >N6RHL >Absolute Communications >N6RHL@ix.netcom.com Dave, I've never used a j-pole but the Antenna Hanbook shows the center conductor going to the long element. 73, Jim WB6LWS From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:52 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dx.net!news From: HS North Library Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Loops!!!! Date: 3 Feb 1996 23:55:00 GMT Organization: The DataXchange Network, Inc Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4f0skk$rb5@news.dx.net> References: <4eh0ck$pnk@news.flinet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: excaliber.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: canksc@tevm2.nsc.com About loops- I just installed a loop, works fine on 80/40 (which is what I wanted, as I have a beam for 20/15/10). A loop can be resonant or non-resonant. If non-resonant (what I did) feed it with 450 ohm ladder line into 4:1 current balun(RadioWorks) and then a short piece of 50ohm coax to your antenna tuner. In my case, I have a Dentron super tuner and an MFJ 949E, both of which work fine. The loop is about 220 long, and it the rectangle sides are not of equal length on opposite sides. Anyway, I think that a non-resonant loop is more forgiving, and can be used with a good tuner on multiple bands with good results. 73 Joe WR2b From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:53 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!venus.sun.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!snooze.ser.bbnplanet.com!news.mountain.net!usenet From: dringer@access.mountain.net (Dan Ringer) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Rooftop ant. for radio? Date: 4 Feb 1996 04:19:05 GMT Organization: D. Ringer, Attorney Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4f1c3q$34h@news.mountain.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip21-15.mountain.net X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) > tvine@teleport.com (PjB) writes: > Hi gang.....I just moved into a new apartment bldg. It was built in the > 50's and it is a rather large structure 12 stories tall. The original TV > antenna system is on the roof and I am told it still works. There is a > jack on the wall in the living room. I am wondering if I might utilise > this with my scanner. > >>>> Why not try it? It might be better than what you've got, but not as good as y ou'd like to have. Antennas are funny. You never know what might work - I had great success using a Ringo Ranger as a 20 meter vertical a few years back. I tried it because I had it and nothing else. A friend of mine ac tually loaded an icicle on HF many years ago. Got his picture in an ARRL antenna book. Ya just never know. Dan, K8WV From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:54 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!eskimo!localhost From: wrt@eskimo.com (Bill Turner) Subject: Re: Interference with lamps X-Nntp-Posting-Host: tia1.eskimo.com Message-ID: Sender: news@eskimo.com (News User Id) Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 References: <4ek79r$a3t@server1.oxford.net> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 04:19:07 GMT Lines: 24 In article <4ek79r$a3t@server1.oxford.net>, gcollins@Oxford.net (Gordon Collins) wrote: > We have a lamp on the second floor of our home. It is one ofthose >lights wich is operated by touching it. (trilight). Whenever I tune up >my rig in the basement the lamp starts to turn on and proceed through >all three cycles. It is very annoying. > My antenna is a centrefed dipole cut for 40M. It is strung >between two treest at approximately the same hight asthe second floor >but about twenty feet away. > Does anyone have any ideas on how to correct this problem? > ------------------------------------------------ I'm pretty sure most of the RF causing the problem is being picked up not by the lamp itself, but by the line cord and the house wiring. If that's the case, try isolating the lamp from the cord by using some ferrite chokes. These come in snap-on and split versions. Radio Shack carries both kinds and no doubt others do too. An added side benefit is reduction of interference radiated FROM the lamp as well. Place them as close as possible to the lamp end of the cord, so the "antenna" connected to the lamp is as short as possible. 73, Bill W7LZP wrt@eskimo.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:55 1996 Message-ID: <485578@280.chatlink.com> From: Gandolff@sys280.chatlink.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!aimnet.com!news.exodus.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.chatlink.com!netaccess Date: 04 Feb 1996 05:36:16 PST Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V96 #29 Lines: 8 look at it from an angle and at a distance ( 10-15 ft) if it looks pink or reddish it has metal in it and thru the glass antennas won't work on them 3s' de wayne N1OFF From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:57 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.orst.edu!engr.orst.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: 4 Feb 1996 06:06:35 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 33 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4f23vr$dvp@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <3113990D.8A95E42@ptd.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <3113990D.8A95E42@ptd.net>, Dave Skarbowski writes: >Where did the notion come from that openwire line radiates? If the SOURCE is >balanced (as you >indicate) it will not radiate. Where you attach it on a dipole should not >matter as far as >balance is concerned. The center of a dipole as a feed point is no different >than the end as >far as balance in the feed is concerned. > >73's Dave, n2fam > > Hi Dave, Proper balance or isolation at BOTH ends is required. If the source is balanced and the load isn't, the parallel wire line will radiate. If the load is balanced and the source isn't it will still radiate. All lines, even coax, require equal and opposite currents on each conductor to prevent radiation. And as Tom B pointed out, even field coupling can make a line radiate even when we take other precautions. Any end fed antenna *without a counterpoise at the antenna and feedline terminal* will have feedline radiation, or you wouldn't even be able to feed the antenna! 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:58 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Interference with lamps Date: 4 Feb 1996 08:01:36 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 10 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4f2ang$fjc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I understand what this man says but maybe Im wrong, These lamps in question are touch senstive due to the potential energy when someone touchs it. This energy field is off balance when you transmit. It (the lamp itself) senses the energy and turns off and on. The Lamp is the one to correct, the wiring will pick up some of the energy, put the lamp itself is the one at fault. N9RLR/2 Syracuse, NY From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:23:59 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet From: "C. J. Hawley" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 09:11:36 -0600 Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 25 Message-ID: <3114CCA8.4DA4@uiuc.edu> References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: berlin-6.slip.uiuc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (Win95; I) Cecil Moore wrote: > > Finally got to read the auto-tuner article. Does it strike anyone > else as overkill when 17 relays and 16 tuning components are used > for only 8 bands? > > 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) What are you thinking...a roller inductor or var cap? The relays are cheap and the position memory is simpler. My Ten-tec auto tuner is prone to forgetting where the roller is. Not related, but the memory chip gets "filled up" according to the factory. It costs about 10 or so to replace it every 6 months. Not to mention the hassle of disassembling the whole front of the damn thing. Has anyone solved this problem? It also does not know where it was when you turn it on from last time....then you have to go to a different antenna position and back. Then it remembers. The factory says not normal but replacing the entire guts with a "new one" from the factory does not behave any differently. The thing is noisy and slow with the roller but improves the resolution. I wish they would fix the bugs and then I would put up with the noise.....and the $1100 cost. -- Chuck, KE9UW From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:00 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!primus.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!pop.gnn.com!PDelpriore From: PDelpriore@gnn.com (Paul Del Priore) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: PC interferes with TV Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 10:12:53 Organization: GNN Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4f2iis$ve@news-e2a.gnn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: www-21-199.gnn.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-GNN-NewsServer-Posting-Date: 4 Feb 1996 15:15:40 GMT X-Mailer: GNNmessenger 1.2 When I use my computer, if someone else is watching TV using off air antenna annoying interference is present on TV, mostly channels 2,4,5. I don't believe due to ac line path since no interference when watching tape from VCR or if watching TV from satellite Dish, whose signal is in the gigahertz range. In addition a portable TV running from my car battery in the garage also shows the same interference. Downlead from off air antenna is coax with antenna on roof three floors up so interference not picked up by downlead. Many thanks for any help with this problem. Paul From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:01 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Interference with lamps Date: 4 Feb 1996 17:56:19 GMT Organization: Internet Oklahoma Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4f2s03$flc@ionews.ionet.net> References: <4f2ang$fjc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: osip03.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) wrote: >I understand what this man says but maybe Im wrong, These lamps in >question are touch senstive due to the potential energy when someone >touchs it. This energy field is off balance when you transmit. It (the >lamp itself) senses the energy and turns off and on. > >The Lamp is the one to correct, the wiring will pick up some of the >energy, put the lamp itself is the one at fault. > You are right, and like it has been said it is easily corrected. TRASH the lamp. 73 Hank WA5JRH From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:02 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.logical.net!mserv.wizvax.net!news From: Bill Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Info Needed on High Efficiency Loops Date: 4 Feb 1996 19:19:07 GMT Organization: Wizvax Communications, Troy, N.Y. 12180 USA Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4f30rb$659@mserv.wizvax.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip38.vgernet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Hi Folks , Good afternoon and tnx for reading this . I'm looking into building a small loop for 160m . I presently have a full-wave at 40' and am very pleased with it . But unfortunately it won't fit into the backyard of the property I plan to buy . The question is ....... has anyone had any experiences with the loop that Robert ( Ted ) Hart W5QJR has published in the 17th edition of the ARRL Antenna Book ? The basic design of the loop is an octagon with 12.5' sides for a total of 100'. The construction material advised is 3/4 inch copper tubing . At the top of the loop has a motor driven air cap. for the tuning network ( due to the very high Q ) and a matching stub at the bottom . The attraction to this antenna is it boasts near equal performance to a a half-wave dipole at a quarter-wave high . Personally , I find that hard to believe . But who knows , if what is said can be confirmed in an actual field test , I'd be game to build one . Thanks to all who respond , I'll be looking foward to any replies . 73 de Bill / AA1NL From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:03 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: otheral@ix.netcom.com(Al Williams ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Interference with lamps Date: 4 Feb 1996 20:56:19 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4f36hj$1t3@cloner4.netcom.com> References: <4f2ang$fjc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-phi4-22.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Feb 04 12:56:19 PM PST 1996 In <4f2ang$fjc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) writes: > >I understand what this man says but maybe Im wrong, These lamps in >question are touch senstive due to the potential energy when someone >touchs it. This energy field is off balance when you transmit. It (the >lamp itself) senses the energy and turns off and on. > >The Lamp is the one to correct, the wiring will pick up some of the >energy, put the lamp itself is the one at fault. > >N9RLR/2 >Syracuse, NY I have one these lamps, and also the same problem. In keeping with this thread, pulling the plug worked ..well! On a more constructive front, I read an artical..(I'm sure in a ARRL book) about fixing this problem. As I recall the fix was rather complex. I just can't find the dog-gone book. Since "Hints & Kinks" is one that is eluding me, I'll assume it's the one. Like I said the fix was quite complex and far in excess of the value of the lamp. Might make an interesting winter project tho. 73's es cul de n3tyd Al From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:04 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!newshost.convex.com!bcm.tmc.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!usenet From: wpresho@ibm.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Help Date: 4 Feb 1996 22:40:06 GMT Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4f3ck6$k00@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> Reply-To: wpresho@ibm.net NNTP-Posting-Host: slip166-72-227-74.nj.us.ibm.net X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5 I recently aquired a AOR 3000a wide coverage receiver, my question is what is a good antenna for the 1000 to 2000 mhz range. The only commercial one have seen advertized is the Dressler ara 2000, But it seems a little high in c ost. I called Gilfer for information on it but they couldn't tell me much about it. Also what can I expect to hear in this frequency range. I have posted to the scanner groups but got no response. Hope you folks can help. thanks in advance. wpresho@ibm.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:05 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!paperboy.ids.net!anomaly.ideamation.com!anomaly.ideamation.com!not-for-mail From: kd1hz@anomaly.ideamation.com (Michael P. Deignan) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City Date: 4 Feb 1996 23:21:25 -0500 Organization: The Ace Tomato Company Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4f40k5$1q9@anomaly.ideamation.com> References: <4efpb3$pt2@alpha.sky.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: anomaly.ideamation.com Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.policy:33006 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18905 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24587 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13144 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13971 In dbaker@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us (Donald I. Baker) writes: >Technical solutions do exist. Using a "TX-ID" board, which uniquely >fingerprints each transmitter and a PC one can "slectively" include or >preclude individual users. > >The board was not meant for that purpose, but with just a little Basic of C >codes, it workd just fine. It is especially easy if you have a single or >limited number of receive site. I too can attest to the helpfulness of the TX-ID system. Coupled with our Doppler Systems DF gear, the TX-ID has allowed us to bag several Drew-like scumbags here in the RI area who have no appreciation for Part 97. MD -- -- -- "Who needs looks when you've got taste?" -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:06 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cybercomm.net!raven.cybercomm.net!richg From: richg@raven.cybercomm.net (Rich Griffiths) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help A New Ham! Date: 5 Feb 1996 00:28:21 GMT Organization: CyberComm Online Services Lines: 36 Message-ID: <4f3iv5$9di@crow.cybercomm.net> References: <3114EF40.3E37@algorithms.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: raven.cybercomm.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Ryan Workman (workman@algorithms.com) wrote: : To All: : Here is my situation: : I recently upgraded to Tech Plus and bought an HF Rig. Kenwood : Ts-450/AT. I constructed a 10 meter dipole. The dipole is reasonant at : 28.400. But, the band seems to be flat. Is it really that dead or could : I have done something wrong???? I also have a R7 I will be installing : when the weather breaks. : Any Suggestions?? Please let me know! : 73, : Ryan, KB2OOP : Email: Workman@Algorithms.Com or Ryan.Workman@Jemsoft.Com Yes, Ryan, it really is that dead. Once in a while, it comes alive, though. We're in a minimum sunspot period right now and probably will be for a few years yet. The minimums seem to be a little longer (broader) than the maximums, and the next maximum is due in (something like) 2002. If you're a patient, persistent listener, you'll occasionally catch some great openings before the next sunspot maximum, and the quality of 10 meters may just blow you away during beginning a couple of years before the maximum. ============================================================ Rich Griffiths richg@raven.cybercomm.net Red Bank, New Jersey W2RG Monmouth County FN20wi From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:07 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gryphon.phoenix.net!usenet From: w5bbr@phoenix.net (Bill Holbert Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Source of wire and cable? Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 03:08:09 GMT Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4f3opm$aov@gryphon.phoenix.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.120.253.10 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 mikem@kite.pd.tgi.plexus.com (Mike Mayer) wrote: >Are there any good sources for wire and cable (besides Radio Shack)? >I'm thinking of 14ga antenna wire, coax and ground wire, connectors, >etc. >thanks >-- >============================================================================= = > Mike Mayer (414) 751-3557 Work: Mike.Mayer@plexus.co m > Technology Group, Inc. Neenah, WI Home: mmayer@athenet.net Mike I would try: The RADIO WORKS, Inc. P.O. Box 6159 Portsmouth, VA 23703 Phone: 804-484-0140 also 800-280-8327 (order hot line) I have had great success ordering from them. Bill Holbert Sr., W5BBR 101 Bluebonnet Hills Brenham, TX 77833 Retired, No Money, No Cares From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:08 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!pacific.net!usenet From: "Mr. Brooke Clarke" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: HELP-Interference Date: 5 Feb 1996 05:11:18 GMT Organization: Rack and Stack Systems Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4f43hn$obm@pacific.pacific.net> References: <4el9in$h@ns2.ptd.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts-22.pacific.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; U; 16bit) To: georgef@postoffice.ptd.net You might try filtering. The noise is getting out of the computer some way. If it is coming out the power line it could be filtered there. This sounds like it since I think you said that you removed everything else. Have Fun, Brooke From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:09 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!newshost.netinfo.com.au!usenet From: rex@netinfo.com.au (Rex Waite) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: SG-230 Smartuner Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 12:02:09 GMT Organization: Netinfo Pty Ltd - Canberra Australia Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4f4o40$111@fred.netinfo.com.au> Reply-To: rex@netinfo.com.au NNTP-Posting-Host: betty-p17.netinfo.com.au X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Has anyone had any experience with these ?? rex@netinfo.com.au From lwbyppp@epix.net Mon Feb 05 21:24:10 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!vulcan.netdepot.com!thebe03.netdepot.com!user From: Wozniac@netdepot.com (Ted Fortner) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: J-Pole qestions Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 20:02:58 -0500 Organization: NetDepot Lines: 10 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: thebe03.netdepot.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.1.3 I have come across a 2m J-pole antenna plan. What are the advantages of a J-pole over, say a rubber duck on a HT or a dipole? Does it requrie a ground plane for good performance, and what wavelength antenna is it? (quarter wave, half wave, etc...) I would also appreciate any other plans for a 2m J-pole. Thanx in advance. 73s, KF4GJR Ted Fortner Wozniac@netdepot.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:18 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.inc.net!news.inc.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.orst.edu!engr.orst.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!psgrain!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@safe.ia.GOV Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 8 Feb 96 18:32:34 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 39 Message-ID: <199602081832.MAA04674@outpost.safe.ia.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu >From /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/ Thu Feb 8 12 :39:51 CST 1996 remote from osiint.safe.ia.gov Date: 08 Feb 1996 12:38:10 -0600 X400-Trace: US*ATTMAIL*IADPS arrival 08 Feb 1996 12:38:10 -0600 action Relayed From: /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@osiint.safe. ia.gov To: "/RFC-822=Ham-Ant(a)ucsd.edu/OU=OSI-INTERNET/O=WALLACE/PRMD=IADPS/ADMD=ATT MAIL/C=US/"@osiint.safe.ia.gov In-Reply-To: <"\"/RFC-822=199602062306.PAA29945(a)mail.ucsd.edu/OU=OSI-INTERNE T/O=WALLACE/PRMD=IADPS/ADMD=ATTMAIL/C=US/\""@osiint.safe.ia.gov> Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V96 a652 Importance: normal Autoforwarded: FALSE Message-Id: P1-Message-Id: US*ATTMAIL*IADPS;IDPS3550 werl0208123654aa UA-Content-Id: werl0208123654aa P1-Content-Type: P2 Priority: normal Received: from osiint.safe.ia.gov by iadpshub.safe.ia.gov; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12 :39 CST Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1013 > >Antennas are funny. You never know what might work - I had great success us ing a Ringo Ranger as a 20 meter vertical a few > >years back. I tried it because I had it and nothing else. A friend of mine actually loaded an icicle on HF many years ago. Got his > >picture in an ARRL antenna book. Ya just never know. > > >Dan, K8WV > > The strangest antenna I ever heard of was a guy I worked on CW using > the steam radiator system in his apartment building. Obviously it > worked, since I talked to him. Anything is worth a try... > > 73, Jim WB6LWS Great articles, guys. New thread? Strangest antenna used on any ham bands. Please post it here for all to enjoy. Here's one to start, friend of mine KF0HY Larry was on a trip to Chicago, stopped in an Illinois interstate rest area, tuned up on 80m on a light pole. Worked some CW on it. Scott N0XZY @ WA0RJT.#EIA.IA.USA.NOAM werling@safe.ia.gov werling@jemm.co m From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:19 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!globe.indirect.com!s92.phxslip4.indirect.com!tracker From: tracker@indirect.com (Mark Saunders) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 1996 ARRL November Sweepstakes Location Needed Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:49:30 UNDEFINED Organization: Amateur Radio Station KJ7BS Lines: 38 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: s92.phxslip4.indirect.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1] Dan Rockhold, AB7AS and Mark Sunders, KJ7BS are looking for a location in North Dakota from which to operate AB7AS during the 1996 ARRL November Sweepstakes. If you are not a contester or know someone who is not a contester, and would be agreeable to having 2 guest operators for the contest, please respond! We are in the planning stages for this expedition, but we need to get a location very soon. We are interested in the station equipment, especially the antennas. We can bring out own radios, power supplies, computers and interfaces, if necessary. However, we can not bring the antenna farm, too. The station owner is more than welcome to join us in out endevor, or just watch, keep up awake, or what ever. WE WANT YOU TO BE PART OF OUR TEAM. Our goal is NOT to win the contest, but to have a good time and gain new operating skills. From Dan's home QTH in Phoenix, AZ, we got all but 7 sections in the 1995 November Sweepstakes. We do have a lot of fun with this hobby. If you are interested, or know someone who is interested, please contact me or Dan at one of the addresses below. Mark Saunders, KJ7BS tracker@indirect.com KJ7BS@KC7Y.AZ.USA.NOAM Dan Rockhold, AB7AS danr@goodnet.com 73 DE Mark Saunders - KJ7BS Glendale, AZ PACKET: KJ7BS@N7MRP.AZ.USA.NOAM INTERNET: tracker@indirect.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:20 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: ac3l@ix.netcom.com(Edward Oros ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 2 ele dir connect for 2 meters Date: 6 Feb 1996 14:08:48 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4f7ndg$sb7@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-pit1-11.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Feb 06 6:08:48 AM PST 1996 This is for those who missed the dimensions for my "TINY 2" two meter beam. | | | | | | | | <----(Feed Point) | | | | | | <----- 1 ' -----> DIRECTOR DRIVEN (Center Fed) 2' 9.25" 1' 7" Each Side GAIN ~ 4 dBd BAND - 2 Meters ED -- AC3L From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:21 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jaxxom@sisna.com Subject: 2-meter Yagi Organization: Source Internet Services North America X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 96 13:35:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup1117.sisna.com Message-ID: <3114b64d.0@news.sisna.com> Lines: 7 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sisna.com!DIALUP1117 I just built a 2-meter yagi for my house. If any one would like a blow by blow account with actual measurments I will send along. It is a six (6) element beam, and it works GREAT!!!! KE6WAU e-mail to Jaxxom@sisna.com 73's to you all ;) From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:22 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnews.wa.com!uw-coco!uw-beaver!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 440 Horizontal Mobile Ant? Date: 3 Feb 1996 16:31:06 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 5 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4f0k6q$qrk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4eo5hm$n8b@nw002.infi.net> Reply-To: denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com You have to be creative use you imagination, I have a Diamond with the hinge base and tye it down! does fine on atv, now! only been doing for short time! N9RLR/2 From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:23 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!msunews!uwm.edu!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!night.primate.wisc.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news From: no6b@no6b.jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Dengler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City/Repeater Use Date: 2 Feb 1996 21:43:49 GMT Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4eu0il$3ub@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <4efpb3$pt2@alpha.sky.net> <310B8C36.5D9@magnum.wpe.com> <4elgqo$q73@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> Reply-To: no6b@no6b.jpl.nasa.gov (Robert Dengler) NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.149.10.55 X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.02 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.policy:33021 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18930 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24650 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13179 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13998 In , rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) writes: >In <4elgqo$q73@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> sparkfel@primenet.com (Mark Fellhauer ) writes: > >>rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) wrote: > >>>In <310B8C36.5D9@magnum.wpe.com> Eddie Caffray wr ites: > >>>> On the 146.85 repeater here in Central NY we had trouble with one user al so. He made it that >>>>no one would even monitor the reapeater anymore. The club voted to ban him and we did. The >>>>reapeater is a great place to be again. > >>>How do you manage to effectively ban malicious users from a repeater? >>>Of course this problem is known all over the world, but at least over >>>here we have not yet found an effective way of stopping them. How do >>>you do that? > Here's what a local repeater club in So. Cal. did: -Changed the status of their repeater from 'open' to 'private', so that only club members are 'supposed' to use it. -Got a restraining order prohibiting the undesired user from using the repeater. The restraining order was enforced & the undesired user was forced off the repeater, along with lots of 'good' non-member users. Bob NO6B From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:24 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail From: kk5ni@rapidramp.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Advice on B&W AP-10 antenna? Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 02:03:45 GMT Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4fbllo$kc7@alterdial.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: pppl39.rapidramp.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 This is a portable antenna with a set of loading coils, a 57" whip, and a counterpoise wire. It's advertised on p. 98 of the latest AES catalog. I'm in a very limited-space/insufficient-RF-ground situation. Is this antenna even worth considering for use with a first HF rig? It seems too good to be true. Also, any comments on the MFJ-949E antenna tuner would be appreciated. Thanks, Rob KK5NI From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:25 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!ub!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!xband.ni.net!user From: blanton@ni.net (J. L. Blanton) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Help Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 23:15:17 -0800 Organization: Network Intensive Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <4f3ck6$k00@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: xband.ni.net In article <4f3ck6$k00@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, wpresho@ibm.net wrote: > I recently aquired a AOR 3000a wide coverage receiver, my question is what > is a good antenna for the 1000 to 2000 mhz range. The only commercial one > have seen advertized is the Dressler ara 2000, But it seems a little high in cost. > I called Gilfer for information on it but they couldn't tell me much about i t. > Also what can I expect to hear in this frequency range. I have posted to the > scanner groups but got no response. Hope you folks can help. > thanks in advance. There is a small discone available that covers that range. I don't remember the price. Or you might want to try something more directional like a small dish with a broadband feed. Don't expect to hear the kind of activity that you hear on the VHF and UHF bands. There are, however, specific signal sources you might want to point an antenna toward such as amateur repeaters in the 1.2 GHz amateur band. Some hobbyists also like to listen to Inmarsat satellite traffic which is around 1.5-1.7 GHz, but you'll need a directional antenna and a preamp for that. Lee, WA8YBT From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:26 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.inc.net!novia!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!tricia!pendragon!ames!niven.ksc.nasa.gov!usenet From: sarosiw (sarosiw) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Help Date: 6 Feb 1996 20:25:16 GMT Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4f8dfc$834@niven.ksc.nasa.gov> References: <4f3ck6$k00@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: n1122503.ksc.nasa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7 In article <4f3ck6$k00@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, wpresho@ibm.net says... > >I recently aquired a AOR 3000a wide coverage receiver, my question is what >is a good antenna for the 1000 to 2000 mhz range. The only commercial one >have seen advertized is the Dressler ara 2000, But it seems a little high in cost. >I called Gilfer for information on it but they couldn't tell me much about it. >Also what can I expect to hear in this frequency range. I have posted to the >scanner groups but got no response. Hope you folks can help. >thanks in advance. >wpresho@ibm.net This is my first time on this net so I hope it all goes well. I usually moderate HAM_TECH on FIDO. This looks a bit similar in nature so here we go... A discone designed for 200 MHz or above will work as the discone has a 10:1 frequency ratio for bandwidth coverage. What to expect ... The 23cm Amateur Radio Band, some telemetry, TACAN, and some TV uplinks. That's about it. -WS From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:27 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Bazooka Antenna Design Date: 1 Feb 1996 16:48:56 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 25 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ercg8$seu@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4er7lo$grs@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4er7lo$grs@news.asu.edu>, hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) writes: > could ask, good in what way? > Since the loss in the quarter wave sections is a function of >the square root of frequency and the length it seems to me that the >loss will be higher on loweer frequency bands such as 160. Tales of >immunity to height etc... are not valid. The increased bandwidth >is more a product of the diameter of teh coax shield forming the >antenna than the small compensation of the shunting stubs. > >Charlie, W7XC Hi Charlie, You're right of course, but you left something else out that increases the BW of the infamious coaxial dipole. The increased bandwidth is also a function of the increased losses. Braided wire has more RF resistive loss than smooth wire, plus there are additional dielectric losses. I get a real chuckle out of an ad in the ham magazines that advertises a "Coaxial dipole with 1.5dB gain over a regular dipole". 1.5 dB more LOSS is more like it, hi. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:28 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!aimnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!not-for-mail From: alf@kaiwan.com (Alfred Lee) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CB to Ham Transformation. Date: 5 Feb 1996 14:01:46 -0800 Organization: KAIWAN Internet (310-527-4279,818-756-0180,909-785-9712,714-638-4133,805-294-9338) Lines: 20 Sender: alf@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com Message-ID: References: <4e9s0c$lbj@tilde.csc.ti.com> <4ee9tt$7f2@news.hal-pc.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com In article <4ee9tt$7f2@news.hal-pc.org>, sid@hal-pc.org wrote: > > Joe Fitter BV/N0IAT writes: > > Also, on cb since i live in > > NY i hear alot of spanish itallian people speaking in other languages on > > most channels and there is alot of profanity. I am wondering is there > > anythink like that on HAm? > > Again, the answer is no. It is against the law and 99.5% of us hams are law abiding. > But profanity is the major reason that cb'ers move up to amateur radio. > Clarification: foreign languages is perfectly legal as long as you identify in English but profanity is definitely out. 73, --- Alfred Lee alf@kaiwan.co m KE6KGV 'The answer is (e^iã + 1) ? "No" : "Yes"' From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:29 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Comet CA HV Antenna - Any Comments? Message-ID: <1996Feb6.183610.26405@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Organization: Destructive Testing Systems References: <4f7n0s$c1g@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:36:10 GMT Lines: 40 In article <4f7n0s$c1g@newsbf02.news.aol.com> k5qq@aol.com (K5QQ) writes: >I noticed that Comet is making an antenna for mobile use that covers >40-20-15-10-6 and 2 meters. Has anyone tried it and have any comments? >Is it fully automatic or do you move jumpers like the outback? Does it >mount on a 3/8-24 thread or does Comet have their own mounting >arrangement? It's a pretty severely compromised antenna. I got one for my Jeep for use with my IC-706. The antenna works on 2 and 6 via just the mast and the base matching network. For 40-10 meters there are 4 top loading coils with stingers. You can install one, two, or all four in a porcupine arrangement. You've probably seen these "spyder" arrangements on Hustlers. The mount is a Comet SO239 style. The antenna base coil has a fixed PL259 type configuration that screws down on the Comet base. The hardware is all nicely done, and should hold up well, and it will even hinge over just above the base network, but as an antenna it leaves a lot to be desired. I'd rate it as similar to a short Hustler on HF, and just Ok on 6 and 2 meters. You're not going to get the performance of a Bugcatcher, or probably even a Hamstick, out of this antenna, but it will cover all the bands without requiring you to get out of the car and make changes. I use mine roof mounted, with just one HF coil and stinger installed at a time (to reduce windload and for asethetics). I can hinge it down when going into low parking structures, or to change resonators. Frankly, I'd have been better off to just bumper mount a good HF antenna and run separate roof mounted 6 and 2 meter antennas. For what it is, it is nicely done, but remember what it is, a severe compromise. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:30 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx04-33 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Defective EZNEC files Date: Tue, 06 Feb 96 10:11:01 GMT Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4f79e6$3n7@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx04-33.teleport.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 Some EZNEC files are archived on ftp.netcom.com/pub/ra/rander/NEC (and also mirrored on ftp.emclab.umr.edu/pub/aces/NEC). A few of these files are defective and will cause EZNEC to crash when recalled or cause it to display its internal "default" description. EZNEC prevents saving defective files, but does little checking when files are recalled. Apparently these files weren't created by EZNEC or were damaged somewhere along the way. The defective files are: 205CA@70.EZ 20RH_STK.EZ 20RHST58.EZ 40M_STAK.EZ 40RHOMBI.EZ They are being deleted from the archives and will probably be gone by the time you read this. Please delete any copies you've downloaded. 73, Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:31 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!noc.nyx.net!nyx.cs.du.edu!not-for-mail From: tkell@nyx.cs.du.edu (ted kell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Dummy load resistor source??? Date: 8 Feb 1996 07:02:08 -0700 Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4fcvp0$mbb@nyx.cs.du.edu> References: <4fbfim$fsg@caesar.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx.nyx.net I took 12 2W resisters, I think 620 ohms, whatever the std value is, hooked them in parallel between two pieces of pcb, attached an so239. Ted In article <4fbfim$fsg@caesar.ultra.net>, Rob Bellville wrote: >Hi! > >I need to make a bunch of low power (< 5W) dummy loads. Where can I find >some 50 ohm 5W non-inductive resistors? Alternatively, I could use 25 and >100 ohm ones, too. > >Thanks! > >- Rob > From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:32 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!news.ossi.com!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!despina.neptune.com!news.atlantic.net!news From: goose@atlantic.net (Richard Zimmerman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Florida Ham Antenna Restrictions - ch125.htm (0/1) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 15:08:06 GMT Organization: Internet Connect Company (atlantic.net) Florida, USA +19043752912 Lines: 42 Message-ID: <4f7v2j$296@news.atlantic.net> References: <199602011849.MAA05482@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> Reply-To: goose@atlantic.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-oca-fl-016.atlantic.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 pat@wf9h.COM (Pat Hamilton) wrote: >> I believe the state of Florida passsed a law that was suposed to >> prevent local zoning from preventing ham towers, anyone have any >> info on it??? If so I would like to get a copy. >> >> thanks >> >> Dave hand wb4hyp >> dhand @ microdes.com >Greetings Dave, >Yes, Florida did indeed enact such a law. Unfortunately it did not >stop the problems. I lived in Florida (Tampa) for a bit over three >years and there was at least one case where some folks put up a >couple towers in a rural area and literally went through hell over >it. >I cannot provide particulars on Florida's law but I think a note to a >fellow I know down there would get you some answers. >His name is Warren and his call is WA1GUD. A really decent guy and >well informed on new developments in that neck of the woods. >His internet address is or not too long ago was elly@gate.net >He can also be reached via packet at WA1GUD@WA1GUD.TPA.FL.USA.NA >He may have some printed matter he could send you. Tell him I said >hello. >Good luck and 73 >Pat I was researching this for something else so I decided to post it here. Please look for the attached file. Richard, KE4RIT From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:34 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!despina.neptune.com!news.atlantic.net!news From: goose@atlantic.net (Richard Zimmerman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Florida Ham Antenna Restrictions - ch125.htm (1/1) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 15:08:07 GMT Organization: Internet Connect Company (atlantic.net) Florida, USA +19043752912 Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4f7v5e$296@news.atlantic.net> References: <199602011849.MAA05482@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> Reply-To: goose@atlantic.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-oca-fl-016.atlantic.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 begin 644 ch125.htm M1FQO2!A(&-O M=6YT>2!W:71H(')E3H\+V(^(',N(#$L(&-H+B`Y,2TR."X- B"@T*3F]T92X\+V(^($9O ` end From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:35 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!iglou!iglou.com!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: G5RV X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2 Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <4er6ue$lvu@spectator.cris.com> <4ets2s$17gc@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4f30go$mpb@chnews.ch.intel.com> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:26:43 GMT Lines: 38 From the looks of these swrs, a tuner will be need for solid state rigs anyway. A recent article in QST proved that many tuners have considerable losses. Add that to the 2 to 4 db lost from the coax and you have even more loss. Why is the G5RV considered a mutliband antenna? Is there some magic swr the qualifies it? Put up any old loop in any configeration that is at least one wavelength around and it will have better matches to coax then this. : Freq. SWR-original SWR-W6SAI version : 102'/26.75' no balun 92.6'/37.25' with balun : 3.5-4.0 6.3-5.67 7.68-4.60 : 7.0-7.3 2.65-4.50 1.72-3.00 : 10.1 8.50 8.11 : 14.00-14.35 1.83-3.28 2.50-1.42 : 18.11 1.84 1.11 : 21.00-21.45 5.90-5.69 4.96-4.70 : 24.95 4.52 2.75 : 28.0-29.7 4.83-1.88 3.38-1.48-2.55 : Take the measured SWRs and use the charts at the end of Chapter 16 : in the ARRL Handbook to find the SWR at the coax/ladder-line : junction and the additional loss caused by standing waves. For : instance, a transmitter end SWR of 3:1 on 40m means an SWR of : about 4:1 at the other end of the coax with a total loss of : about 2dB in RG58, less than half an 'S' unit (Sterbie unit?). : G5RV radiation efficiency can definitely be improved but not by : as much as one might think. Commercial versions are way over- : priced. But it is not bad as an all-band HF antenna. : 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:37 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ifu.net!usenet From: Dean Marzocca Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: GAP Titan DX Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 21:58:49 -0500 Organization: ifu.net Lines: 28 Message-ID: <31157269.6499@ifu.net> References: <4ejocb$lgp@news.ifu.net> <4enm13$jia@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip36.ifu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) To: KB9VU KB9VU wrote: > > Dick, > > It works for me also. I've checked mine against a dipole at 35' and a > longwire (160' X 30' up at is's highest point) and there are both plus and > minus differences. NONE of them shows the GAP worse by more than 1 S > unit. 75 meter performance is 1 to 2 S units better than the dipole! 40 > meter performance is equal to or better than the dipole and slightly worse > than the longwire depending on wether working phone or CW. The GAP is > better in the Phone end. 20 meters is slightly worse than both the other > antennas with the dipole working the best. 15 meters is better than the > long wire and equal to the dipole. 10 meters is worse than both the > dipole and the longwire (less than 1 S unit though). On 17 meters, both > the dipole and the long wire are better. On 12 meters, the long wire is > better, the GAP and dipole are equal. > > From my observations and those of others in the area, folks either like > them or they don't. There is a mind set in the Ham community that ALL > verticals are really tall dummy loads. I have not found that to be the > case. Mine works fine in my installation which is a compromise due to > space and zoning restrictions. My antenna is ground mounted with the 40 > meter counterpoise only 10 to 12" off the grass. > > Mike, KB9VUMike, I agree 100 % and couldn't have put it any better. Receptio n might be down a bit but so is the noise. 73, Dean N2TNN From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:38 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!ub!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!xband.ni.net!user From: blanton@ni.net (J. L. Blanton) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help A New Ham! Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 23:05:29 -0800 Organization: Network Intensive Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <3114EF40.3E37@algorithms.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: xband.ni.net In article <3114EF40.3E37@algorithms.com>, Ryan Workman wrote: > I recently upgraded to Tech Plus and bought an HF Rig. Kenwood > Ts-450/AT. I constructed a 10 meter dipole. The dipole is resonant at > 28.400. But, the band seems to be flat. Is it really that dead or could > I have done something wrong???? I also have a R7 I will be installing > when the weather breaks. Look for F-layer openings for a few hours around mid-day. The band may also liven up a little during sporadic-E season in May through July (although sporadic-E can also occur during other months). 10 meters is a really interesting DX band during sunspot peaks. Good luck. Lee, WA8YBT/6 From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:39 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hideout.emanon.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!guitar.sound.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ee.net!usenet From: capthook@nextek.com (Dr. Henry Hook) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help A New Ham! Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 14:35:15 GMT Organization: eNET News Server 1 Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4f54ep$4l9@news.ee.net> References: <3114EF40.3E37@algorithms.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-127.nextek.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Ryan Workman wrote: >To All: >Here is my situation: >I recently upgraded to Tech Plus and bought an HF Rig. Kenwood >Ts-450/AT. I constructed a 10 meter dipole. The dipole is reasonant at >28.400. But, the band seems to be flat. Is it really that dead or could >I have done something wrong???? I also have a R7 I will be installing >when the weather breaks. >Any Suggestions?? Please let me know! >73, >Ryan, KB2OOP >Email: Workman@Algorithms.Com or Ryan.Workman@Jemsoft.Com Ryan: 10 meters is pretty dead at this point in the sunspot cycle. It will get better in another year or so. Keep on up-grade work and get on to some of the lower freq. bands. They are not perfect but there is traffic there. Best Henry KD8QA From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:40 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!primus.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ee.net!usenet From: capthook@nextek.com (Dr. Henry Hook) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help A New Ham! Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 18:58:48 GMT Organization: eNET News Server 1 Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4f5jt7$jo0@news.ee.net> References: <3114EF40.3E37@algorithms.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-152.nextek.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Ryan Workman wrote: >To All: >Here is my situation: >I recently upgraded to Tech Plus and bought an HF Rig. Kenwood >Ts-450/AT. I constructed a 10 meter dipole. The dipole is reasonant at >28.400. But, the band seems to be flat. Is it really that dead or could >I have done something wrong???? I also have a R7 I will be installing >when the weather breaks. >Any Suggestions?? Please let me know! >73, >Ryan, KB2OOP >Email: Workman@Algorithms.Com or Ryan.Workman@Jemsoft.Com Ryan:Yes, 10 meters is pretty dead right now.It will improve with the change in the cycle in another year or so.South America may be open about 2000UTC and some to S.Pac. Henry KD8QA From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:40 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!box185.ams.vt.edu!user From: pelt@vt.edu (Ranson J. Pelt) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help- 40 Meter Yagis Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 11:12:42 -0500 Organization: Virginia Tech Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: box185.ams.vt.edu I want to purchase a 40 Meter shortened Yagi. Currently looking at the Cushcraft 40-2CD and the Hygain Discover 7-2. Anyone out there using one of these antennas? Would appreciate any input to help me decide which one I should go with. Thanks - 73 -- Ranson J. Pelt pelt@vt.edu QST de nz4i From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:42 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!chaos.aoc.nrao.edu!newshost.nmt.edu!rutgers!fdurt1.fdu.edu!xyzzy.bubble.org!newshost.cyberramp.net!news.iadfw.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!church.dcss!hwfn!james!aa490 From: aa490@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Paul Milawski) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: HELP-Interference Date: 5 Feb 1996 19:27:20 GMT Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <4f5lmo$al0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> References: <4el9in$h@ns2.ptd.net> <4f3d7s$k9e@news.be.innet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN] : georgef@postoffice.ptd.net (George) wrote: : >I'm trying to use my AEAfax to receive FAX/RTTY. But My computer : >generates too much interfercne. I know its not the : >monitor,mouse,keyboard,&modem. I've removed all and powered up CPU and : >still get noise. I've taken CPU to another room (on another electrical : >circuit) and still get a +20dB noise level from CPU. Now I'm on the : >second story of a townhouse and my radios are only grounded to the : >electrical system ground. I'm thinking of running a ground wire from : >second floor window and driving a rod in the ground. Will this help? I : >know nothing about grounding. : >Tnx : >George In my case, the interference was getting into the audio lead from the decoder and flowing back to the receiver. It didn't matter how far away I placed the receiver. What I did to eliminate allmost all of the RFI was to use two small audio transformers "back to back" (8ohm to 1000ohm miniature versions are widely available). Just tie the two 1000ohm sections together and use the 8ohm sides as input/output. Of course this remedy will only be usefull if that's where your interference is coming from. Good luck, Paul -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:43 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!service-2.agate.net!usenet From: John Wilcox/NS1Z Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: HF Magnetic mount? Date: 8 Feb 1996 20:12:28 GMT Organization: Agate Internet Services (AIS) Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4fdlfc$sb7@service-2.agate.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ns1z.sdi.agate.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Well, they look attractive and for versatility it would appear they can't be beat. However, if they fall off while one is careening down the highway they might not be worth it. Anyone have any tales they would like to relate? I am thinking of getting one to use on my old Jimmy/S15 as well as the occaisonal rental car for a Hustler style HF mobile whip. Your experiences would be appreciated. Thanks! -- John Wilcox / NS1Z INTERNET :204.117.6.48 ns1z@agate.net Work :5018901@mcimail.com TCP/IP :44.118.6.4 ns1z@ns1z.ampr.org AX-25 :ns1z@kb1bsc.fn44rn.me.usa.noam From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:44 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: aa5mt@gate.kc5aug.ampr.ORG Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: HI-Q antenna Date: 5 Feb 96 01:46:57 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 22 Message-ID: <47432@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org> Reply-To: 44.42.200.20@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu I am looking for information on antennas with extremely narrow bandwidth for use on a dual frequency packet setup. All antennas I have seen aim for the maximum bandwidth possible. I am looking for the minimum bandwidth possible, for a single frequency. A duplexer has been considered, but I don't think it is a $$$ option. I tried a full wave loop, but the bandwidth was 4 MHz, even with magnet wire. I'm trying to run a gateway, but rx blanking occurs, even 2 MHz away. Ideally, I'd like to run 145.07 and 145.79 together for the APRS crowd. What I'm aiming for is 1200 baud on 145.07 and 9600 baud on 147.57 as a dual entry gateway into internet. I have worked with a loop antenna for hf operation(MFJ) which has a width of only 30 khz. All 2m antennas I have seen are at least a few MHz on average. The hf loop is a natural filter, and rejects all nearby signals, even 100 khz away. The hf loop runs a Q of 50 to 500 depending on the band. I have considered building a scale version of the loop, but I don't know if the capacitor is increased or decreased in value. My ignorance is showing. 73 de Tom S. aa5mt@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:45 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!luzskru.cpcnet.com!not-for-mail From: mannd@candw.com.ai (Dave Mann) Subject: Re: High Quality Dipole Antennas Message-ID: <267cc$10311c.306@luzskru.cpcnet.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 21:48:43 GMT Reply-To: mannd@candw.com.ai References: <4ef1rc$11ta@stealth.mindspring.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Lines: 32 Jack Ray wrote: >I am Distributor for the Fritzel antenna line from Germany. >Fritzel builds very high quality Beams and Dipoles, like nothing else on the market. >These are available from your favorite dealer or direct: > Electronic Switch Company, Inc. > 8491 Hospital Drive, Suite 328 > Douglasville, GA 30134 USA I have two Fritzel 80 meter dipoles which I purchased from them whilst posted in Germany (as DA1BB). This was in 1980 and the antennas are still in excellent condition. They have a plastic covering over the wire and stainless steel screw-on clamps. The only complaint (if it really is one .. hi) is that the UHF connector receptacle on the balun is a bit too long, making it hard to completely tighten the coax plug unless I use pliers. Not really a problem, however. I like the Fritzel folks also, they were extremely helpful to me when I visited their factory in Germany. Another great company over there is Andes Antennas, which manufactures VHF and UHF antennas. I still have a 70cm helical and a 23cm 4-gang helical made by them in 1980. 73's Dave Mann, VP2EHF Dave and Dorothea Mann, Little Harbour, Anguilla, BWI From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:46 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Homebrew 160 Meter Vertical Date: 7 Feb 1996 17:16:27 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Lines: 48 Message-ID: <4fampb$ga4@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu Reference KK5AO proposal for a ballon supported 160 meter vertical. 1 Bil Morrison first 'chooses 0.05 inches for #12 wire'. It isn't. It is 0.08081 inches. His equation for Zo is in error. He has the 'a' in the wrong place. It should be: Zo = 60 [ln(2h/a) - 1] although he appears to have used the correct equation for his calculated 581 ohm Zo with 0.05 radius wire (which is closer to #10) The radius of #12 is not 0.05. Its 0.040405 inches yielding Zo of 593.86 ohms. While the reactance curves of the article are correct they are actually yielded more simply by X = Zo / tan (H) where H is the angular height. X = 581 / tan (30) = 1006.32 His value of 988 ohms of capacitive reactance from the curves assumes X/Zo = 1.7. It is actually 1.732 but lets not quibble about that. Using 0.40405 radius it comes out to X = 1028 by the proper equation rather than the crude curves. He then falls into the same trap as the author of the Vertical Classics article where in Fig. 4 he arrives at 36 ohms for the radiation resistance. That curve is for a simple monopole, NOT a loaded one. A simple but fairly accurate equation for the radiation resistance of a capacitively top loaded vertical is R = 36 sin squared H, where H is the angular height of the vertical, in this case about 27 ohms. Thus, if his estimate of 4 ohms of earth loss resistance is true, adds to 40 ohms, not 44. It appears that he proposes building the capacity hat of wire supported by fiber glass struts. The article from which he quotes used 1/2 inch tubing for the spokes which may approach but not equal a solid disk. Reasonable sized wires certainly will not approach the capacity of a disk unless the number of them is quite large. Check it out with ELNEC. The wind load on such a monstrosity would seem to guarantee that the vertical will be a sloper in anything but a rare dead calm. Maintaining the hat in a fixed position relative to the antenna wire seems a problem that will add still more wind area Lifting the resulting capacity top loading structure would be more difficult than going for a quarter- wave-resonant wire. A thin 90 degree antenna at 1.8 MHz quarter-wave antenna will have radiation resistance of 36.6 + J 42.5. Resonant length would be approxametly .95 X 136. 6 added length of only about 45.6 feet of wire. Less than one pound of weight a t per pound for bare #12. -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:47 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.gi.net!news.mid.net!news.dra.com!news.starnet.net!wupost!dbsun.vitek.com!dbsun.vitek.com!not-for-mail From: landers@dbsun.vitek.com (Rod Landers) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Interference with lamps Date: 1 Feb 1996 18:54:50 -0600 Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo. Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4erncq$cni@dbsun.vitek.com> References: <4ek79r$a3t@server1.oxford.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dbsun.vitek.com In article kell@mpac.jsc.nasa.gov (T ed Kell) writes: > >Take a sledgehammer to the lamp. :) I second that. Those lamps are creations from hell....... 73, WI0T From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:48 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!news.tcst.com!dildog.lgc.com!news.sesqui.net!oitnews.harvard.edu!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: n6rhl@ix.netcom.com (David Dean) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: J-Pole Antenna Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 21:59:28 GMT Organization: Keep-In-Touch Communications Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4f0pbu$ac6@reader2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-den9-20.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Feb 03 2:59:10 PM PST 1996 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Where does the center conductor of the coax connect on a J-Pole antenna. The 19" stub or the 59" pole? Please help. Thanks. Dave David Dean N6RHL Absolute Communications N6RHL@ix.netcom.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:50 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: J-Pole qestions Message-ID: <1996Feb6.044333.23568@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Organization: Destructive Testing Systems References: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 04:43:33 GMT Lines: 47 In article Wozniac@netdepot.co m (Ted Fortner) writes: >I have come across a 2m J-pole antenna plan. What are the advantages of a >J-pole over, say a rubber duck on a HT or a dipole? Does it requrie a >ground plane for good performance, and what wavelength antenna is it? >(quarter wave, half wave, etc...) I would also appreciate any other plans >for a 2m J-pole. Thanx in advance. Ok, a J-pole is a halfwave end fed radiator with a quarterwave matching stub (the J hook). In theory, a halfwave radiator is a halfwave radiator, so the J-pole should be identical to a vertical halfwave dipole. Unfortunately, reality raises its ugly head and it isn't quite that simple. Because of the unbalanced feedpoint connection, the J-pole can exhibit high feedline currents, and thus can sometimes suffer bizarre radiation patterns. A choke balun in the coax at the feedpoint can suppress this to a large extent. Like any halfwave radiator, the J-pole doesn't need a groundplane to function. And like any shorted quarterwave stub, the bottom of the J hook is electrically neutral, so it can be bolted directly to a metallic support structure. That means the antenna is a "plumbers delight" and can be DC grounded for safety. If you make the J-pole out of copper pipe and place a Tee fitting at the bottom of the J hook, you can use that to mount the antenna to the mast, and if you're clever you'll route your coax *inside* the mast and up inside the J, bringing the inner conductor out through a strategically placed hole in the J to connect to the other leg of the J, and soldering the coax shield at the hole. This hides the coax from the antenna near field and forms a sleeve balun, and helps give you a clean pattern, as well as a clean mechanical installation. Practically *any* antenna will be superior to a rubber dummy load, and the J-pole is no exception. The J-pole has 0 dbd of course since it is electrically identical to a vertical dipole. You can stack halfwave sections, however, using a quarterwave hairpin phasing section in between, and turn the J-pole into a gain antenna. A 2 bay has 3 dbd and a 4 bay has 6 dbd. That's about the limit for a self-supporting 2 meter J-pole, but you can go to 8 bays, 9 dbd, on 70 cm with half inch copper pipe construction. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!globe.indirect.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-ulm.de!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!fontane.agnld.uni-potsdam.DE!not-for-mail From: Jan-Martin Hertzsch Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Long wire on VHF - any experiences? Date: 9 Feb 1996 09:43:49 GMT Organization: Max-Planck-Arbeitsgruppe "Nichtlineare Dynamik" Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4ff50l$sd6@fu-berlin.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: fontane.agnld.uni-potsdam.de (141.89.176.21) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Access: 16 51 959 960 X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) X-URL: news://news.fu-berlin.de/rec.radio.amateur.antenna Dear friends of r.r.a.a., not long ago, I found a description of long-wire antennas for VHF and UHF. They were 7 lambda antennas fed 1/4 wave from one end. I'd like to try them for my SSB (and hopefully later telegraphy) operations (running the antenna from my window or from the roof across the garden to a tree). Nevertheless, I'd like to know whether anybody has already tried this kind of antenna, and could give me perhaps some hints. I am aware of the fact that such antennas are strongly directional, but this is even an advantage for my intended application. vy 73 de DG0LFH Jan-Martin From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:52 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!elna.ethz.ch!usenet From: Schwander Peter Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: multi el. quad for 7mhz Date: 5 Feb 1996 23:21:45 GMT Organization: ethz Lines: 32 Message-ID: <4f63e9$2oq@elna.ethz.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: ibkmac13.ethz.ch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna/19724-19824#m0ti9Cq-0006yVC@k2.iserv.net hello dear friend, i am trying to put up for the next ARRL CW contest a 4 or 5 elements quad antenna for the 40 meters band.Maybe it sounds a little bit crazy,but be sure it is not so very difficult.the last year a was working with a 4 el. delta loop on 40 meters,but this time I would like to try the square form.My biggest problem is that I still need to find the real BEST dimensions to optimize the forward gain(of cours it is not a rotatable antenna,but to work USA+CANADA from Europe it is about always in the same direction,i will optimize by bearing exactly the "center of USA ").now,how i said my biggest problem is to have the best dimensions and spacing to have the 50 ohms in my coax cable. My "boom" can be up to 25 meters long(about 70-75 feet). i would like to explain you how i will mount this antenna(believe me :it is not so crazy my idea!),but my english is to poor to let you understand something in my words,hi... the highest part of the squares will be at about 16-18 meters and the lowest about 5-7 meters above the ground,so I think it is not very very low the antenna(of course by higehr heigt would be better...). so,dear friend,if you have the dimensions and best spacing for this antenna,please let me know,by leaving a n answering message to me.mni mni tnx!! (of course i didnt given you many infos about how i will do the antenna,but i think you have my most important parameters to "see"more or less how it looks.i can tell you also that i will use 2 mast distant about 30 meters and they are about 17 meters high). so,hope to read something from you as soon as possible,i will be very very very glad!!!!! vy best 73 es dx es hpecu in the test --... ...-- ...-.- . . !! From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:54 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: aa5mt@gate.kc5aug.ampr.ORG Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Narrow Bandwidth for 2M Date: 5 Feb 96 01:43:22 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 22 Message-ID: <47421@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org> Reply-To: 44.42.200.20@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu I am looking for information on antennas with extremely narrow bandwidth for use on a dual frequency packet setup. All antennas I have seen aim for the maximum bandwidth possible. I am looking for the minimum bandwidth possible, for a single frequency. A duplexer has been considered, but I don't think it is a $$$ option. I tried a full wave loop, but the bandwidth was 4 MHz, even with magnet wire. I'm trying to run a gateway, but rx blanking occurs, even 2 MHz away. Ideally, I'd like to run 145.07 and 145.79 together for the APRS crowd. What I'm aiming for is 1200 baud on 145.07 and 9600 baud on 147.57 as a dual entry gateway into internet. I have worked with a loop antenna for hf operation(MFJ) which has a width of only 30 khz. All 2m antennas I have seen are at least a few MHz on average. The hf loop is a natural filter, and rejects all nearby signals, even 100 khz away. The hf loop runs a Q of 50 to 500 depending on the band. I have considered building a scale version of the loop, but I don't know if the capacitor is increased or decreased in value. My ignorance is showing. 73 de Tom S. aa5mt@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:55 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns From: bbruhns@newshost.li.net (Bob Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Narrow Bandwidth for 2M Date: 6 Feb 1996 04:19:59 GMT Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4f6ktf$fja@linet06.li.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Cavity peak, notch, and peak-notch filters can help. If your problem is other nearby 2 meter stations, you all may have to coordinate with the transmitters notching the receive frequencies, or with very sharp pass filters on the transmitters, as well as the receivers notching out the transmit frequencies, or using very narrow pass filters. Receive-frequency crystal filters are available at 2 meters; these are so selective that you almost don't need a superhet/IF for receive selectivity! Of course they have to be ordered for the frequency to be received. Site management of the antenna locations would help. Also, with multiple frequencies, intermod analysis might show that certain combinations of your available frequencies should not be co-located if it is avoidable. Circulators (sometimes called directional couplers, but not to be confused with a bidirectional wattmeter element) should be used at the transmitter outputs, especially when modern wide-band, solid-state transmitters are used. In tough cases, two or three stage units are required. Unfortunately, circulators can be EXPENSIVE! However, their effect on transmit intermod is very well documented. On the 450-470 MHz band, I have seen one new solid-state commercial paging station of good quality, but which was missing its circulator, clobbering commercial repeaters on another tower 800 feet away. Transmitters on the other tower were intermodulating in the paging TX, and the intermod products were clobbering other receivers on the other tower! Fortunately, the paging transmitter soon got its circulator. Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, bbruhns@li.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:56 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!imci5!suck-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns From: bbruhns@newshost.li.net (Bob Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Narrow Bandwidth for 2M Date: 6 Feb 1996 04:26:51 GMT Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4f6lab$fja@linet06.li.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] One other thing - your best bet in strong signal environments is a crystal controlled (not synthesized) receiver of strong design. (Single freq crystal-controlled transmitters are best, too.) Scanners and amplified HTs or cheap mobiles won't cut it... Those commercial receivers with 5 stage helical front ends work much better. Even so, their mixers are usually not the ultimate; strong double-balanced design would improve things further. Avoid unnecessary preamplification for this reason; even if the RF amp doesn't overload, the mixer certainly can. Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, bbruhns@li.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:57 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: 3 Feb 1996 12:23:39 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 54 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4f05mr$lr9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi ALL, Tom B E-mailed me this. I said.... : The two wire line doesn't have to radiate. He said.... Yes, I agree with this, but ... : If you install a choke balun at : the antenna terminals it won't radiate if the source feeding the line is : balanced. If the line is coax and the balun is used the source has to be : ground independent or a typical unbalanced output. I'm afraid I don't agree with this. I just did a little EZNEC simulation to prove the point. I modeled a simple horizontal .49 wavelength center fed dipole at 1 meter wavelength. I included a second wire not connected to the first. It was also horizontal, in the same plane, same length, but perpendicular to the driven wire. One end was spaced .01 meters from the center of the driven wire. As expected, the model showed an approximately sinusoidal current distribution on the driven element, and zero current everywhere on the parasitic element. But then I moved the parasitic element so it was 1/3 of the way from one end of the driven element, still with the end spaced away from the driven element by 0.01 wavelenths. I claim that's like a feedline, be it coax or balanced, that's isolated from the driven antenna by a perfect balun, and 1/2 wave long. OK, the current induced in the parasitic element was nearly half as large as in the driven element! If you really don't want antenna currents on your feedline in this situation, break the feedline up with two baluns, one at the antenna, and one a quarter wave or so away. Anything that's resonant and not perfectly balanced in the field of the driven element will have a significant current (= antenna current) induced in it. If you make it non-resonant, it very significantly reduces the problem, and if you space it well away from the radiating element that helps too. -- Cheers, Tom tomb@lsid.hp.com That was a great clairification. Of course as Tom pointed out...ANY line will radiate (even a balanced antenna) if the feeder is not a proper angle to the antenna and properly decoupled. An OCF antenna is NO WORSE than any other dipole antenna for putting out a signal. They all require proper installation, most of them are never installed that way...even the dipoles. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:58 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.ptd.net!news From: Dave Skarbowski Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 12:19:09 -0500 Organization: N2FAM Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3113990D.8A95E42@ptd.net> References: <4er6c3$lvu@spectator.cris.com> <4esbfj$b5d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs1-09.hol.ptd.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (X11; I; Linux 1.3.59 i486) W8JI Tom wrote: > > In article , Steve > Ellington writes: > > > > >The Windom in it's original form was fed with a single wire. I tried it > >once and put a nice burn on my lip from the microphone. Now, we have this > > >so -called Windom using balanced line, 300 ohm or 450 or whatever, > >feeding a very unbalanced antenna. YES, the feedline will radiate like > >crazy! Is this what we desire? > > > > The two wire line doesn't have to radiate. If you install a choke balun at > the antenna terminals it won't radiate if the source feeding the line is > balanced. If the line is coax and the balun is used the source has to be > ground independent or a typical unbalanced output. > > Lot's of variables apply when things are mixed and matched! > > 73 Tom Where did the notion come from that openwire line radiates? If the SOURCE is balanced (as you indicate) it will not radiate. Where you attach it on a dipole should not mat ter as far as balance is concerned. The center of a dipole as a feed point is no different than the end as far as balance in the feed is concerned. 73's Dave, n2fam From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:53:59 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!aimnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!not-for-mail From: alf@kaiwan.com (Alfred Lee) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: opinions on Diamond antennas?? Date: 5 Feb 1996 14:01:58 -0800 Organization: KAIWAN Internet (310-527-4279,818-756-0180,909-785-9712,714-638-4133,805-294-9338) Lines: 14 Sender: alf@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com In article , charlie@netdepot.com (Charlie Fortner) wrote: > I'm thinking about buying a Diamond 2m/440 mobile along with the hideaway > trunk mount. Is Diamond a reputable company, and if so, is the mount and > antenna worth the $120 AES wants? If hearsay is to be trusted, Comet is the world largest amateur antenna manufacturer and all Diamond antennas are made by Comet. 73, --- Alfred Lee alf@kaiwan.co m KE6KGV 'The answer is (e^iã + 1) ? "No" : "Yes"' From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:00 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!wellspring.us.dg.com!dg-rtp.dg.com!teton!mead From: mead@rtp.dg.com (Glenn Mead) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: opinions on Diamond antennas?? Date: 6 Feb 1996 15:32:59 GMT Organization: Data General Corp. Lines: 8 Sender: mead@teton (Glenn Mead) Distribution: world Message-ID: <4f7sbb$3t9@dg-rtp.dg.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: teton.rtp.dg.com I own four diamond antennas. About 2 weeks ago one of the twin band mobiles quit working. I called the dealer, he sent a new one, I sent the dead one back. No hassle, no problem. The quality of the parts is very high and the reports I get back are very good. Glenn Mead KE4ZEA From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:01 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!usenet From: dbwillia@uci.edu (Brian Williams) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: opinions on Diamond antennas?? Date: 6 Feb 1996 17:12:41 GMT Organization: UCI Medical Center Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4f8269$d53@news.service.uci.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin9103.slip.uci.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In article , alf@kaiwan.com says... >If hearsay is to be trusted, Comet is the world largest amateur antenna >manufacturer and all Diamond antennas are made by Comet. >73, >Alfred Lee alf@kaiwan.co >KE6KGV 'The answer is (e^iã + 1) ? "No" : "Yes"' Hearsay is wrong. Comet (NGK) does not make the antennas for Diamond. Diamond and Comet are both very good antennas. Diamond generally look a bit "more polished" and Comet seems to put more into the inside. Comet representative in So Cal claims Diamond is completely seperate. Brian From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:02 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!news.net99.net!News.MO.NET!tattoo.sccsi.com!nuchat!lurch.sccsi.com!news.sccsi.com!news.uh.edu!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: opinions on Diamond antennas?? Message-ID: <1996Feb6.041658.23339@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Organization: Destructive Testing Systems References: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 04:16:58 GMT Lines: 38 In article alf@kaiwan.com (Alfred Lee) writes: >In article , >charlie@netdepot.com (Charlie Fortner) wrote: >> I'm thinking about buying a Diamond 2m/440 mobile along with the hideaway >> trunk mount. Is Diamond a reputable company, and if so, is the mount and >> antenna worth the $120 AES wants? > >If hearsay is to be trusted, Comet is the world largest amateur antenna >manufacturer and all Diamond antennas are made by Comet. I don't think that's correct. I had the opportunity to talk with the president of Comet at length at Dayton 3 years ago. My impression was that Comet was a relatively small company (by Japanese standards anyway). Also, in examining the internals of Comet and Diamond base station antennas, I find their design and construction methods very dissimilar. It seems unlikely they are coming from the same source. I don't like Diamond base station antennas because of the series capacitors used in them. Comet antennas use linear loading instead. This means there's DC continuity throughout the Comet antenna, and no capacitors to be blown when lightning comes to call. My repeater uses a Comet antenna, and has numerous burn marks from lightning hits, but no damage. Only one hit usually puts paid to a Diamond. Mobile antennas are somewhat different. I find both Comet and Diamond mobile antennas to be fairly similar in construction. I don't see much wrong with either brand. Again I use a Comet mobile antenna, because I like the mechanicals and aesthetics better than the Diamond or the Larsen (which may be slightly electrically superior to either of the others). I do use Larsen mounts, the Larsen NMO can't be beat. Just drill the hole, put it in, and forget about it. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:04 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!primus.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!newsmaster From: <73412.2660@compuserve.com> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Opportunity Knocks Date: 6 Feb 1996 20:07:46 GMT Organization: CompuServe Incorporated Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4f8cei$fv3@dub-news-svc-1.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hd30-133.compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain Keywords: Antenna,Design, Engineer,Employment, Content-length: 379 X-Newsreader: AIR Mosaic (16-bit) version 4.00.08.32 Hello, I'm an Executive Recruiter in Portland, ME. I currently have several openings around the country for Antenna Design Engineers. Please reply if interested in knowing more. E-Mail would be better than posting to newsgroup. Sincerely, Bill Corrigan Ross Green and Associates PO Box 547 Cumberland, ME 04021 207-829-6595(P) 207-829-6590(F) RGreen2573@AOL.COM From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:06 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!zippy.intcom.net!imci3!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: PC interferes with TV Message-ID: <1996Feb6.033850.22997@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Organization: Destructive Testing Systems References: <4f2iis$ve@news-e2a.gnn.com> <4f2vr1$e18@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 03:38:50 GMT Lines: 65 In article <4f2vr1$e18@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> dickmac@ix.netcom.com (Richard M acDonald) writes: >On Sun, 04 Feb 1996 10:12:53, PDelpriore@gnn.com (Paul Del Priore) wrote: >>When I use my computer, if someone else is watching TV using off >>air antenna annoying interference is present on TV, mostly channels >>2,4,5. [snip] > >1. Check that your computer is FCC Class B certified (home use). If not you m ay >not be able to cure the problems. Sure you can. If the manufacturer can shield to Class B levels, so can you. >2. Check all external connections to the main computer - often signal is >radiated from a cable or an external device. You can generally disconnect cab les >at the computer then, if the interference is gone, replace them one at a time to >sse when it returns. Note that you should generally turn off the computer to >disconnect or connect cables, especially the parallel printer port. Don't for get >the monitor cable - it or the monitor are frequent causes of such interferenc e. > >If you find that a cable is doing it you can often find a cable with better >shielding. Many of the cheaper cables have none at all. > >You can use ferrite beads or the equivalent on many cables to cut down >radiation. > >If it isn't a cable or the problem persists with no external things connected to >the computer then you may need another computer. Don't be *too* quick to write off the computer. You *can* use a noisy computer if you improve the case shielding. Even the noisest motherboard can be brought down to Tempest levels if you use good VHF RF shielding practices on the case. Such things as sanding all joints for metal to metal contact, using a screw at least every 5 cm of seam, covering any ventilation openings with copper screen, etc, will quieten even the noisiest beast down. You've got to make the case a Faraday cage to contain the noise. What can be a bear to quieten is the keyboard. Sometimes it *is* better to just pitch a noisy one and get a quieter keyboard. I use the Focus 2001 on all my machines. It's pretty RF quiet, and has a feel that I like. And don't forget the mouse, some of these can be quite noisy as well. But it usually is the monitor that's the worst culprit. There's lots of high current pulses in there, and RFI shielding is often nonexistant with the plastic cabinets used on most monitors. Again you can improve shielding. GC makes a conductive EMI spray you can use on the cabinet, or you can line it with copper screen. Use fish paper around any HV parts so you won't get flashovers to the shielding. Again, follow good VHF RF practices, a few inches of unbonded seam can make a dandy slot radiator, letting all that contained noise escape and flow over the outside of the case, external wiring shields, or a "ground" connection if you use one. Those all then become antennas, radiating the noise so your radios or TV will hear it. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:07 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!night.primate.wisc.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.pe.net!news.corpcomm.net!maggie.ionsys.com!newspeak.ultratech.net!worldlinx.com!wchat.on.ca!news From: nemo@wchat.on.ca (Joe Nemet) Subject: Portable Quad Antenna Reply-To: nemo@wchat.on.ca Organization: WorldChat / The Online Source, Burlington Ontario. Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 03:40:46 GMT Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 X-Nntp-Posting-Host: g3-p15.wchat.on.ca Sender: news@wchat.on.ca (News Owner) Lines: 27 I am a relatively new ham operator (August 1995). I have just completed my first home project. I have built the collapsable 2 m quad which is set out in the April 1993 issue of 73 Amateur magazine. Surprisingly the thing works great with my HT so I am quite pleased. However, since I am now in making my own antennas I want to redesign it to make it smaller and to also consdier making a dual band model. The one I just made has an 86 inch relector wire which when spread out on the spreaders makes for a 30 inch lenth. While it is portable by collapsing it is still nonetheless rather awkward to move around with when it is up and running. I would like to redesign it so that the quad elements are shorter but I am uncertain as to how to make the changes to the calculations. Does anyone know of the formulas to calculate length, boom length etc. to accommodate this? Also if I want to add more elements how do I calculate where to put it along the boom? Also, any ideas as to how to make it dual band? Thanks. Joe Nemet VA3JNE Campbellville, Ontario, Canada From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:08 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!treasure.coastalnet.com!usenet From: wind@coastalnet.com (Kent Fulton) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Proper lead in to marine SSB backstay Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 06:25:16 GMT Organization: Global Information Exchange Corp. Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4esai6$dok@treasure.coastalnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm-wsh1-5.coastalnet.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I'm completing the commissioning of a new sailboat for a customer. Boat has factory installed SGC-2000 radio. I have varying advice on what the lead-in cable from the autotuner to the insulated backstay should be. Everything from number 6 primary wire to high voltage spark plug cable has been suggested. Backstay length is approx. 50 ft. Output nominal 150 watts. Radio covers USB, LSB, CW, voice, etc. (not my field. . . hard to guess huh !!). What's the concensus of those in the know about the proper cable? All replies appreciated. From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:09 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!efjohnson From: mallen@efjohnson.com (Mark Allen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Q: Info on low temp coax cable Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 20:56:23 GMT Organization: Minnesota Regional Network (MRNet) Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4er9qn$rfg@news.mr.net> Reply-To: mallen@efjohnson.com (Mark Allen) NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.220.11.134 I am looking for information on a coax cable to use as a jumper from hardline to my HF beam that won't crack in this -30 degree (F) Minnesota weather. As the beam rotates, the current RG-xx always seems to crack on the outer cover. Anybody got ideas for something that would work in these types of temperatures? Mark Allen (WJ7X) (Please e-mail replies to mallen@efjohnson.com) From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:09 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!efjohnson From: mallen@efjohnson.com (Mark Allen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Q: Low temp coax cable Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 21:03:54 GMT Organization: Minnesota Regional Network (MRNet) Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4era5u$rjf@news.mr.net> Reply-To: mallen@efjohnson.com (Mark Allen) NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.220.11.134 I am looking for some low temperature coax cable that will surive the - 30 degree (F) weather here in Minnesota. The jumper loop around my rotor to the HF beam antenna (which is currently RG-8) keeps cracking as I rotate the antenna in this weather. Any suggestions? Mark Allen (WJ7X) (please e-mail to mallen@efjohnson.com) From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:12 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!luzskru.cpcnet.com!not-for-mail From: gmfoster@cpcnet.com (Garry Foster) Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Message-ID: <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 05:00:43 GMT Reply-To: gmfoster@cpcnet.com References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Lines: 24 Cecil Moore wrote: >Finally got to read the auto-tuner article. Does it strike anyone >else as overkill when 17 relays and 16 tuning components are used >for only 8 bands? >73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) Well I guess I need to reread this article as I thought it was "supposed" to be a full spectrum(hf) tunner. In other words functionally equal to the SGC, Icom and Kenwood tuner. Why would it be any more over kill than one of these commerical tuners? In fact the schamatic of the tuner is almost a copy of the ICOM AH2 tunner that was reviewed in the April 1987 issue of CQ. Actually that tuner uses 21 relays (if I didn't miscount),10 coils and 7 caps. The sensing circuit on the ICOM seems somewhat more complex and it sens a signal back to the rig to keep the level down during tunning. I have never seen a schematic of the SGC tuner but assumed it followed the same arangement. 73 Garry WB0NNO From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:13 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!condor.acc.iit.edu!uchinews!ncar!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!shore!news From: jjmartin@shore.net (JJ Martin) Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,alt.radio.scanner,alt.radio.scanner.uk Subject: Re: R7100 Modification Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 06:44:47 GMT Organization: WK1V Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4fbrjo$qs0@shore.shore.net> References: <4ejqb8$6e5@news.ios.com> <4ek51g$chl@grouper.Exis.Net> Reply-To: jjmartin@shore.net NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-7-20.shore.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: news.epix.net uk.radio.amateur:10724 rec.radio.shortwave:69891 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18975 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24771 rec.radio.amateur.misc:97908 rec.radio.scanner:45283 alt.radio.scanner:27357 alt.radio.scanner.uk:2129 >In article <4ejqb8$6e5@news.ios.com>, . says... >>Ever since ICOM decided to delete the 800 - 900 MHZ coverage from its IC-R71 00 >>receiver, Just fer the record...ICOM didn't just decide to delete the 800-900 MHz coverage from any of their radios. It was our folks in Washington D.C. who made it illegal to listen to the cellular telephone frequencies when they modified the Communications Act of 1934. I believe the cutoff date for the manufacture of equipment openly capable of receiving cellular freqs is April of 1994. Just some gee whiz info. :) Cheeers! jjm From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:14 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!condor.acc.iit.edu!uchinews!ncar!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!shore!news From: jjmartin@shore.net (JJ Martin) Newsgroups: uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,alt.radio.scanner,alt.radio.scanner.uk Subject: Re: R7100 Modification Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 06:44:49 GMT Organization: WK1V Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4fbrjp$qs0@shore.shore.net> References: <4ejqb8$6e5@news.ios.com> <4ek51g$chl@grouper.Exis.Net> <4elqh2$p71@pegasus.starlink.com> Reply-To: jjmartin@shore.net NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-7-20.shore.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: news.epix.net uk.radio.amateur:10725 rec.radio.shortwave:69892 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18976 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24772 rec.radio.amateur.misc:97909 rec.radio.scanner:45284 alt.radio.scanner:27358 alt.radio.scanner.uk:2130 Bill Funk wrote: >Hmmm... If you can buy a new R9000 (since you are in a business that will >allow you to do so), then you can get an un-restricted R-7100. The manufacturers will not deliver an unrestricted radio within the confines of the U.S. unless they are delivering it to a government agency. >Me, I'm lucky. I have an older R-7100, full coverage! (No, it's *not* for >sale!!) :-) This law sucks!! jjm From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:15 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: jastorm@ix.netcom.com (Jim Storm) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Rooftop ant. for radio? Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 08:28:13 GMT Organization: ix.netcom.com Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4f73ev$he8@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4f1c3q$34h@news.mountain.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: smx-ca2-06.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Feb 06 12:28:15 AM PST 1996 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 dringer@access.mountain.net (Dan Ringer) wrote: >> tvine@teleport.com (PjB) writes: >> Hi gang.....I just moved into a new apartment bldg. It was built in the >> 50's and it is a rather large structure 12 stories tall. The original TV >> antenna system is on the roof and I am told it still works. There is a >> jack on the wall in the living room. I am wondering if I might utilise >> this with my scanner. >> >>>>> >Why not try it? It might be better than what you've got, but not as good as you'd like to have. >Antennas are funny. You never know what might work - I had great success usin g a Ringo Ranger as a 20 meter vertical a few >years back. I tried it because I had it and nothing else. A friend of mine a ctually loaded an icicle on HF many years ago. Got his >picture in an ARRL antenna book. Ya just never know. >Dan, K8WV The strangest antenna I ever heard of was a guy I worked on CW using the steam radiator system in his apartment building. Obviously it worked, since I talked to him. Anything is worth a try... 73, Jim WB6LWS From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:16 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.localnet.com!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!primus.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!news.fhg.de!usenet From: behrens@ita.fhg.de (Volker Behrens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: SG-230 Smartuner Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 07:48:33 GMT Organization: Fraunhofer ITA Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4f7149$a1f@news.fhg.de> References: <4f4o40$111@fred.netinfo.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 153.96.224.32 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 rex@netinfo.com.au (Rex Waite) wrote: >Has anyone had any experience with these ?? ...in witch way ? (:)) My SG-230 is working well with 5m- wire... Volker Behrens behrens@ita.fhg.de From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:17 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: SG-230 Smartuner Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 23:12:32 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <4f4o40$111@fred.netinfo.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com X-To: Rex Waite Rex Waite writes: >Has anyone had any experience with these ?? >rex@netinfo.com.au I've got one for mobile work. It's mounted outside on the rear bumper of my S10. I don't have to change taps on the bugcatcher for 10m-20m coverage. And I only ever use a single tap for 75m and 40m. It's great for mobile, expecially maritime mobile. I hear it's also good for single-ended fixed antennas although I've never tried it. Something that seems like a natural is to tie a long wire to the top of the mobile whip and run it through the trees for portable operation when camping. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:18 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ee.net!usenet From: capthook@nextek.com (Dr. Henry Hook) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Shortened dipoles Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 16:13:51 GMT Organization: eNET News Server 1 Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4f5a86$ajc@news.ee.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-161.nextek.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Interested in building shortened dipoles for specific frequencies limited by overall lengths? If so, I may have information which may be helpful to you. Henry Hook KD8QA From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:19 1996 From: Vance Campbell Organization: Novell, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Shortened dipoles References: <4f5a86$ajc@news.ee.net> X-URL: news:4f5a86$ajc@news.ee.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <3119465b.0@news.provo.novell.com> Date: 8 Feb 96 00:39:55 GMT Lines: 10 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.fpk.novell.com!uel!news.provo.novell.com! capthook@nextek.com (Dr. Henry Hook) wrote: >Interested in building shortened dipoles for specific frequencies >limited by overall lengths? If so, I may have information which may be >helpful to you. >Henry Hook KD8QA > Can you post it? Email it? From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:20 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!quiknet3.quiknet.com!calweb!jolt.pagesat.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news.ossi.com!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!ra.cgd.ucar.edu!tomas From: tomas@ra.cgd.ucar.edu (Bob Tomas) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: shortwave listening antenna suggestions sought Date: 6 Feb 1996 14:21:29 GMT Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4f7o59$9mo@ncar.ucar.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.cgd.ucar.edu I appologize that this is not an amateur radio question but I thought that posting here was still appropriate since it involves hobbiest and hf radio. I have a friend in Mexico who is an avid shortwave listener and he asked me for advice on how to construct a simple and effective antenna for shortwave listening. He listens to frequencies throughout th hf band. My first thought was to string a wire as long as possible and as high as possible. At the receiver this would be run against an earth ground (ground rod) through an antenna tuner. I would appreciate any comments on this idea or alternatives. Thanks Bob n7nd From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:21 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!istar.net!news1.ottawa.istar.net!fonorola!news.ottawa.istar.net!Rezonet.net!altitude!usenet From: Denis Lachapelle Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Small antenna matching Date: 3 Feb 1996 20:21:06 GMT Organization: Sysacom enr. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4f0g3i$ke4@tandem.CAM.ORG> NNTP-Posting-Host: dynamicppp-166.hip.cam.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) I am developping a portable RF transmitter working around 180Mhz, the all RF circuit is holded in a single IC, and it's work fine. But ..., we can't figure out how to match the antenna, which is a simple piece of wire of about 7". As soon as we put the antenna the output circuit lose all it's gain, and the harmonics and noise take over the desired signal. I guess the problem is that the output circuit tank is changing it's frequency of resonnance when we place the antenna. We need more info on the small antenna to fixe-up our problem, can somebody suggest where to find this info, like a textbook or any other technical document? Thank you very much for your help, Denis Lachapelle From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:22 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!xpat.postech.ac.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsrelay.netins.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!webb.ultranet.com!user From: webb@ultranet.com (Spencer Webb) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Small antenna matching Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 21:11:20 -0500 Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 54 Message-ID: References: <4f0g3i$ke4@tandem.CAM.ORG> NNTP-Posting-Host: webb.ultranet.com Denis, I am afraid that a textbook will not help you much with this problem. As a professional designer of antennas, allow me to describe how I would approach this problem. First, I would use a network analyzer to measure the impedance of the antenna. This will require a properly decoupled feedline to the attachment point on the actual piece of equiment. In this way, you can take into account the effects of the equipment's size and wiring, etc. in the antenna impedance. Once you know the impedance, you can design an appropriate matching network for the output of your transmitter. This is a simplified description of the process that I use frequently in the work that I do. If this is a commercial application, it may be cheaper to use a consultant (like me, but not necessarily me), to finish the antenna portion of your project. It also is important to know the impedance range that your transmitter can tolerate. It may be that the "harmonics" that you are suddenly noticing are really spurious oscillations of your final amplifier due to severe mismatch. Good luck, Spencer In article <4f0g3i$ke4@tandem.CAM.ORG>, Denis Lachapelle wrote: > I am developping a portable RF transmitter working around 180Mhz, > the all RF circuit is holded in a single IC, and it's work fine. > But ..., we can't figure out how to match the antenna, which is a > simple piece of wire of about 7". > > As soon as we put the antenna the output circuit lose all it's > gain, and the harmonics and noise take over the desired signal. I > guess the problem is that the output circuit tank is changing > it's frequency of resonnance when we place the antenna. > > We need more info on the small antenna to fixe-up our problem, > can somebody suggest where to find this info, like a textbook or > any other technical document? > > Thank you very much for your help, > > Denis Lachapelle -- Spencer Webb webb@ultranet.com "A dill pickle makes a soggy bookmark" -Anon. From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:24 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!Tagada.grolier.fr!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!swsbe6.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!satisfied.apocalypse.org!news2.near.net!charlotte.wellesley.edu!sallie.wellesley.edu!wlegee From: wlegee@sallie.wellesley.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Thru Tinted Glass Ants. Date: 1 FEB 96 20:02:15 GMT Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER Lines: 5 Message-ID: <1FEB96.20021529@sallie.wellesley.edu> References: <4e31eh$dgi@news.nstn.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: sallie.wellesley.edu I have a thru the glass antenna on my wifes car and it doesn't work well at al l it is a chevy s10 blazer with tinted side glass. The same antenna on my truck works well. No tinted glass. Thats all I can add. 73 WARREN KD1BC From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:26 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.spss.com!uchinews!ncar!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!news.tamu.edu!news From: mluther@tamu.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: WANTED : GREAT 80 METER DX ANTENNA Date: 2 Feb 1996 02:16:32 GMT Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX Lines: 53 Message-ID: <4ers60$958@news.tamu.edu> References: <4elaj2$j89@usenet.continental.com> Reply-To: mluther@tamu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.194.44.221 X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In , "Ian White, G3SEK" writes: >In article <4ep8v4$8rl@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, W2FOE wrote: >>I think the 1/2 wave vertical is ideal for the really long haul dx. >>Unfortunately I don't think there is that much "really long haul" dx. I >>just ran a quick plot (using Beezley's AO) on a 4 square - the maximum >>elevation angle for 1/4 wave elements is 24 degrees; for 1/2 wave elements >>is 16 degrees. > >Unfortunately AO won't give you the right answer, because it's a MININEC >derivative and ignores ground losses when calculating the gain. It does >take account of ground losses when calcuating the far-field pattern, but >that still does not include the efficiency penalty. The pattern will >have about the right shape, but the maximum gain figure needs to be >scaled-down by several dB. > > >73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' > 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) >Professionally: >IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. I talked to Brian about this. He told me that one of the things that would be corrected in a future (that was two years ago) release of MN and MNC, was this very point. He told me at the time it would be at least two years before it would show up. I was told that there were versions of MININEC that did have the correct routines in them to account for this, however, these versions of the code were classified. They are not available to the general public in that some of the so-called secrets as to the ability of the USA to handle communications with their submarine fleet while under water are part of this effort. I was told that there are, indeed, MININEC versions that can handle the actual ground effects and, indeed certain undergound antenna setups that, especially at VLF, are modelable with the code! My cousin is Bob Dunkin, the ex-international service support manager for Continetal Electronics in Dallas. I believe you will find that they are one of about a half dozen really competent firms that do know VLF and, especially the VLF arrays that can and do use these techniques. Bob wouldn't talk, but he didn't deny this either. I was under the impression that the new site and plant modeling version that Brian was to release that has now been released, would at least have a better way of looking at this, including the use of elevated radials. Anyone here have any comments on it? Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tamu.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:28 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.spss.com!uchinews!ncar!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!news.tamu.edu!news From: mluther@tamu.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: WANTED : GREAT 80 METER DX ANTENNA Date: 2 Feb 1996 01:58:34 GMT Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX Lines: 74 Message-ID: <4err4a$8b3@news.tamu.edu> References: <4elaj2$j89@usenet.continental.com> <4ep8v4$8rl@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: mluther@tamu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.194.44.221 X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <4ep8v4$8rl@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, w2foe@aol.com (W2FOE) writes: >I think the 1/2 wave vertical is ideal for the really long haul dx. >Unfortunately I don't think there is that much "really long haul" dx. I >just ran a quick plot (using Beezley's AO) on a 4 square - the maximum >elevation angle for 1/4 wave elements is 24 degrees; for 1/2 wave elements >is 16 degrees. I believe the optimum angle from the east coast to Europe >most of the time is closer to 40 degrees. The 24 degrees seems to be >about right into Asia. The only time I wish it was lower is long path to >Asia and for me thats only about 15 minutes each Saturday and Sunday >afternoon. > >Regards, Merv I use Beezley's MNC and did all the work on my 40M version of the thing to worl out that one for basic playing around. I did a lot of playing with both different ground conductivity and stair stepped layers of different ground conductivity. I think, from memory, I say that his program confirmed, for my location, what ON4UN asserts, that the gain and the most gain at a given take off angle depend largely on both the near and far field ground conductivity. The array, and all ground referenced verticals, I assume, improves as to efficiency and also the angle at which maximum gain is had, lowers, as the efficiency of the ground system goes up. I do not have all the dozens of plots I made here to look at them. I believe that I remember, that were I to have been able to flood my 260 foot above sea level QTH that is about 170 miles from the Gulf of Mexico with salt water for many wavelengths around me, my performance from the 4 square as to overall efficiency would go way up, and the angle at which maximum radiation would occur would lower from what I have. I am not in the sand pits of East Texas; they are about 20 mile south- south east of me just across the fault line that extends from Palestine, TX, all the way through Navasota, north of Brenham, over to Austin and then on into the hill country. I haven't actually tried to measure it (is, is, si? ) but I think it is going to come out above 6 and below 13 mickeys (slang, eat your heart out Big Gates.) I am in the big middle of a creek bottom area, with soil that has been undisturbed since before the USA became the USA and still with virgin timber in it. One day I'll plot it for a few months and I'll know. For a long time I have sort of questioned if anyone really knows what the "optimum" angle is on 80 meters. I have wondered if it actually is less than the suggested 18-24 degrees. I wonder if that figure is really spouted out on the basis of what reality is for most even good antennae on 80 meteres, and the real optimum angle is lower than that! As I get time, I will try to get up some other antennae to see what they perform like in relation to this thing. My intention is to use whatever I do with a 160 meter vertical array to try horizontal stuff on 80 at the first decent height I will ever have had to play with. A properly oriented dipole up there for reference should help honestly answer all this at MY location. My pocketbook is relatively modest. The goal for all this was to first get up the most for the buck I could. Once the low badns are covered with that composite, there may or may not be time and funds to play some more! Hiram Percy Maxim - "The goal is to communicate...." Right now I'll take my 8Q7 80 CW card and be glad I got it in W5 land! Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tamu.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:29 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.comm.net!imci3!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: WTD: Leaky Coax Message-ID: <1996Feb9.055634.9473@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Organization: Destructive Testing Systems References: <4fbfeg$fsg@caesar.ultra.net> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:56:34 GMT Lines: 39 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:97929 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18983 In article <4fbfeg$fsg@caesar.ultra.net> Rob Bellville writes: >I've got a communications need that requires intra-building >communications. Since the building is steel and concrete and is rather >long end-to-end, I'd like to install some type of leaky or radiating coax >down the long hallways so that signal strengths will be somewhat >consistant. I need low-power base to portable communications throughout >the building. > >Questions: > >1) Can I modify normal coax (like RG-8/U) by cutting slots or some other >method to achieve "leaky-ness"? Not practically. >2) Where can I buy leaky coax at a reasonable price? The trade name for what you want is "Radiax". I believe it is made by Andrew. It is not cheap (around $2 a foot). There is another way. You can use drop fittings in the line and dipole antennas at intervals. Use 30 db couplers for your drop fittings near the transmitter, and increasingly larger coupling factors as you get further away from the transmitter, IE use a 12 db coupler, a 6 db coupler, a 3 db coupler, and finally just put an antenna directly on the end of the line. This probably isn't as good as using Radiax, but it might be cheaper if you ignore installation costs. When you consider professional installation costs, which can range up to $2 a foot themselves when you start talking about drop fittings, then the cost of the Radiax doesn't look quite so bad. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:30 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.zeitgeist.net!cygnus.com!cambridge-news.cygnus.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!fconvx.ncifcrf.gov!mack From: mack@ncifcrf.gov (Joe Mack) Subject: Re: Yagi design and tuning ?'s Message-ID: Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center References: <4ehe6i$25f2@news.doit.wisc.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 17:17:41 GMT Lines: 46 In article <4ehe6i$25f2@news.doit.wisc.edu> lumkes@cae.wisc.edu (John Lumkes) writes: > I just built a Yagi using the design software packaged with the >latest antenna handbook. Question is this: I design it for a center >frequency of 146 but when I tune it I get a perfect match at 144 MHz. >I built a T-match with a 4:1 coaxial balun. (6-ele). I started >shortening the driven element but the perfect match seemed to >still occur around 144. Before I shorten the DE more, what is the >correlation between the surrounding element lengths as far as >tuning freq. is concerned? Should I just keep shortening the DE >and a assume the design software is correct for the other element >lengths or will shortening the DE not produce the desired effect. >Do I need to shorten all the elements to produce a good match at a >slightly higher frequency? (Non-conducting boom, 3/8" dia alum. ele) > >Welcome any hints and insights, > >Thanks alot, John Lumkes AA9QP lumkes@cae.wisc.edu > Building ygais is not easy - a few points - I don't have the exact answer for your qusetion The yagi as designed is a set of elements. It will have a pattern and a feed impedance as a function of ferqunxy You then have to feed it. You cannot alter the antenna design to handle problems wiht the feed (like changing the DE - you'll affect the design). In princliple you can feed anything. Just because the SWR is perfect at 144MHz, it doesn't mean that your antenna is off by 2MHz, you could have a perfect match to the feed impedance 2MHz off freq. You could tell if you had a network analyser and watched the feed imp as a function of freq, but a spot SWR doesn't tell you anything. Your antenna could be low in freq, ie the elements could be 1.5% too long - you know beeter than I do, whether they are likely to be out by that much. If your elements are out by this much and it's random, then you'll have a poor antenna. Are you elements the same diam as the design, was the design a non-coducting boom - these all cause changes of about the scale you see. Joe NA3T EME(B) on home designed and built yagis From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:32 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet From: kr4tg@mindspring.com (mike del pozzo) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Yagi design and tuning ?'s Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 06:28:58 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 69 Message-ID: <4f969o$c9f@brickbat.mindspring.com> References: <4ehe6i$25f2@news.doit.wisc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: kr4tg.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 mack@ncifcrf.gov (Joe Mack) wrote: >In article <4ehe6i$25f2@news.doit.wisc.edu> lumkes@cae.wisc.edu (John Lumkes) writes: >> I just built a Yagi using the design software packaged with the >>latest antenna handbook. Question is this: I design it for a center >>frequency of 146 but when I tune it I get a perfect match at 144 MHz. >>I built a T-match with a 4:1 coaxial balun. (6-ele). I started >>shortening the driven element but the perfect match seemed to >>still occur around 144. Before I shorten the DE more, what is the >>correlation between the surrounding element lengths as far as >>tuning freq. is concerned? Should I just keep shortening the DE >>and a assume the design software is correct for the other element >>lengths or will shortening the DE not produce the desired effect. >>Do I need to shorten all the elements to produce a good match at a >>slightly higher frequency? (Non-conducting boom, 3/8" dia alum. ele) >> >>Welcome any hints and insights, >> >>Thanks alot, John Lumkes AA9QP lumkes@cae.wisc.edu >> >Building ygais is not easy - a few points - I don't have the >exact answer for your qusetion >The yagi as designed is a set of elements. It will have >a pattern and a feed impedance as a function of ferqunxy >You then have to feed it. You cannot alter the >antenna design to handle problems wiht the feed (like changing >the DE - you'll affect the design). In princliple you >can feed anything. Just because the SWR is perfect >at 144MHz, it doesn't mean that your antenna is off by >2MHz, you could have a perfect match to the feed impedance >2MHz off freq. You could tell if you had a network >analyser and watched the feed imp as a function of freq, >but a spot SWR doesn't tell you anything. > Your antenna could be low in freq, ie the elements >could be 1.5% too long - you know beeter than I do, whether they >are likely to be out by that much. If your elements are out by this >much and it's random, then you'll have a poor antenna. > Are you elements the same diam as the design, was the design >a non-coducting boom - these all cause changes of about the scale you see. > Joe NA3T EME(B) on home designed and built yagis all good points.... you might check again the lengths of the directors - they do tend to shift frequency from time t time. A few tips on design: 1. spacing adjustment = +/- Front to back 2. Reflector length slightly produces forward gain as does the directors 3. director lengths = input impedence & enhances forward gain 4. you should not have to adjust the driven element but slightly in extreme situations it is not easy to balance between the two F/B and Forward endeavours but you will find a good setting to suit your needs. I always try to adjust for maximum F/B gain on my yagis. a good antenna design program can help minimize the snip , snip - oh !@#$% I like the Yagimax program , and also YO from brian B. both are great time savers. Also is this the best matching for a yagi ? I know folks will hash me for that...... Gud Luck es 73 de KR4TG , Mike From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:33 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "faq" Date: 2 Feb 96 04:57:14 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 14 Message-ID: <199602020457.UAA17708@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Index of Frequently Asked Questions hem-onc_seminars iamslic info-hams kelptank mmc nel novell packet-radio qigong socal-raves-calendar socal-raves-digest socal-raves soul From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:34 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "faq" Date: 8 Feb 96 05:39:29 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 14 Message-ID: <199602080539.VAA16435@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Index of Frequently Asked Questions hem-onc_seminars iamslic info-hams kelptank mmc nel novell packet-radio qigong socal-raves-calendar socal-raves-digest socal-raves soul From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Feb 09 16:54:34 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help calculating transmission power" Date: 2 Feb 96 04:57:15 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199602020457.UAA17714@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "calculating" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:48 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!usenet From: Jean-Guy Moreau Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (no subject) Date: 13 Feb 1996 14:21:01 GMT Organization: Inter-Acces Communications Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4fq6od$tmg@rcogate.rco.qc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: tty42.lino.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna Hi, Everybody will understand that I am a newee on antenna building, but here it i s: Why can't I use galvanized steel wire to make antennas? Answer and comments appreciated, thanks From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:49 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!southlin.demon.co.uk!graham From: graham@southlin.demon.co.uk (Graham Seale) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:42:29 GMT Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <19960213.164229.04@southlin.demon.co.uk> References: <4fq6od$tmg@rcogate.rco.qc.ca> Reply-To: graham@southlin.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: southlin.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: southlin.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Archimedes TTFN Version 0.36 In message <4fq6od$tmg@rcogate.rco.qc.ca> Jean-Guy Moreau wrote: > Hi, > > Everybody will understand that I am a newee on antenna building, but here it is: > > Why can't I use galvanized steel wire to make antennas? > > Answer and comments appreciated, thanks > > Hi Jean You can if you like! Most antenna builders would avoid using steel because of the weight, and that steel is a very poor conductor compared to copper. There can be high current nodes (anti-nodes?) where one would try to avoid heating losses. There are corrosion issues too. Galvanic zinc coating on steel protects the steel because the zinc has a positive electro-potential compared to iron, and thus will oxidise first. The oxidation is self-limiting. This chemistry is upset at the junction to copper (you have to join to copper conductors somewhere!) Any moisture will set up a nasty green "verdigris" corrosion at the joins. The nice thing all antenna copper is the brown "patina" does not badly affect connections, and it stays stable. Have fun buuilding antennae + my regards 73's G4WNT -- Graham Seale From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:50 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!twizzler.callamer.com!antares-1 From: shell@callamer.com (William Shell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 402BA Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 23:51:34 GMT Organization: Antares C.S. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4flvde$nd4@twizzler.callamer.com> References: <9602110031.aa02250@blkbox.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: max0-046.snlo.dialup.callamer.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #0 In article <9602110031.aa02250@blkbox.COM>, w5robert@blkbox.COM (Robert) wrote : >I recently read in a contest magazine that >a 3 element 40 would have a better SWR than 2 element? >The 3 element SWR was published with 3:1 at the band edges, >my 402ba has about 2:1 at the band edges and fairly flat >from 7.1 to 7.2 , Is my 402BA detuned?? or just working fine? >-- >73 Robert WB5CRG w5robert@blkbox.com Hi Bob, I don't know where you read that, but it sounds like it was specifically referencing two antennas. The bandwidth of my two element full-sized 40 meter Telrex is much greater than my three element shortened 40 meter KLM. If you are satisfied with the performance of your 402, then you should leave it alone. 73, Bill WA6IET shell@callamer.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news2.ee.net!news.ee.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: BColenso@aol.COM Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 440 Horizontal Antenna Date: 12 Feb 96 03:00:17 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 1 Message-ID: <960211220017_319354198@emout07.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Get ahold of Dave, W6OAL, at The Ol Antenna Labs in Denver area. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:52 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!swsbe6.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!newshost.vu.nl!cs.vu.nl!sun4nl!rnzll3!sys3.pe1chl!rob From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City Reply-To: pe1chl@wab-tis.rabobank.nl Organization: PE1CHL Message-ID: References: <4efpb3$pt2@alpha.sky.net> <310B8C36.5D9@magnum.wpe.com> <4ete1q$b0o@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:41:41 GMT Lines: 17 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.policy:33052 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18989 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24803 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13253 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14059 In <4ete1q$b0o@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca> ddenter@bnr.ca (Dean Denter) writes: >Every radio has a "unique" pattern when you key it (due to differences >in the components etc), this pattern can be used to identify a radio. >There is no encrypted signal or anything that fancy. I have my doubts about the uniqueness of the pattern generated by same-type transmitters... and the stability of the pattern as a function of temperature, time etc. But it seems another sub-thread starts to discuss this. Rob -- +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Rob Janssen rob@knoware.nl | BBS: +31-302870036 (2300-0730 local) | | AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU | +------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:53 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.crosslink.net!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!wb3ffv!ppp16.bcpl.lib.md.us!dbaker From: dbaker@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us (Donald I. Baker) Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City, TXxID-1 Sender: usenet@abs.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:17:48 GMT X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ppp16.bcpl.lib.md.us References: <4efpb3$pt2@alpha.sky.net> <4ete1q$b0o@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca> <4fgm3h$7n3@abyss.West.Sun.COM> Organization: Reville Engineering Services X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Lines: 94 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.policy:33071 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19022 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24862 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13288 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14097 In article <4fgm3h$7n3@abyss.West.Sun.COM> myers@West.Sun.COM (Dana Myers) wri tes: >From: myers@West.Sun.COM (Dana Myers) >Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City, TXxID-1 >Date: 9 Feb 1996 23:41:37 GMT >In article , >Donald I. Baker wrote: >>In article rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) wri tes: >>>From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) >>>Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City >>>Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:41:41 GMT >> >>>In <4ete1q$b0o@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca> ddenter@bnr.ca (Dean Denter) writes: >> >>>>Every radio has a "unique" pattern when you key it (due to differences >>>>in the components etc), this pattern can be used to identify a radio. >>>>There is no encrypted signal or anything that fancy. >> >>>I have my doubts about the uniqueness of the pattern generated by >>>same-type transmitters... and the stability of the pattern as a >>>function of temperature, time etc. >>>But it seems another sub-thread starts to discuss this. >> >>>Rob >>>-- >>>+------------------------------------+------------------------------------- -+ >>>| Rob Janssen rob@knoware.nl | BBS: +31-302870036 (2300-0730 local) | >>>| AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU | >>>+------------------------------------+------------------------------------- -+ >>Lots of ways exist to "fingerprint" transmitters. One such Ham class produc t >>is the >> >>TxID-1 from Motron Electronics in Eugene, Oregon. It works well. The >>hardware is GREAT and the software protion is ok. >> >>Basically (without re-describing the whole world): >> >>When radios are first keyed up they each have a unique "ramp-up" to full pow er >>and frequency stability. >Since the Motron TXiD system connects to discriminator output, it is >only sensitive to variations in carrier phase/frequency, and >insensitive to variations in amplitude. >>Gine Motron a call and they will send literature. I believe they sell a ful l >>manual for $10.00 which has both a good technology description as well as th e >>usual "how to use theirs" stuff. >I had an excellent chat with Don Moser of Motron on this topic, and >he mentioned his new web page: http://www.motron.com. >Bottom line is: not every radio is certain to have a unique ID, TXiD >is a very powerful tool as part of evidence collection but can not be >treated as infallible. >-- > * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ, DoD#: j | Views expressed here are * > * (310) 348-6043 | mine and do not necessarily * > * Dana.Myers@West.Sun.Com | reflect those of my employer * I was avoiding going into a lot of detail. Of course you are correct in that the TxID-1 does not "read" any amplitude information, and is absolute by any interpatation, but it is a GOOD tool to hope "prove" abuse by a given user. Additional information like DF'ed location, attenuated readings (lots of signal strength with attenuators in front of the guys house), recordings (TxID-1) of the same trasnmitter when properly used (talking with ID/callsign) are all inporatant pieces. Also tools like APRS to let multiple stations plot a signal bearing and share the data "quickley" over packet can also be of greate use. The problems in Kansas are, sigh, not unique. I can tell you that the same or similar problems exist in the Balt / Wash area as well. It is unfortunate that we must spend time dealing with these issues, but they do keep coming back. We are also istalling seperate doppler type direction locators at all of our recieve sites (12 +) and will be able to "localize" via the basic system before real DF work with beams and similar comes into play. Don Donald I. Baker Reville Engineering Services 4619 Schenley Road Baltimore, MD 21210-2525 (410) 467-7163 Custon Harsh Environment Computers and RF Products "Where no PC has gone before..." From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:54 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!nntp-ucb.barrnet.net!cellnet.com!usenet From: Jim Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Help Date: 9 Feb 1996 20:07:59 GMT Organization: CellNet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4fg9iv$8pj@mirrors.cellnet.com> References: <4f3ck6$k00@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: smoke-2.cellnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Windows; U; 16bit) wpresho@ibm.net wrote: >I recently aquired a AOR 3000a wide coverage receiver, my question is what >is a good antenna for the 1000 to 2000 mhz range. The only commercial one >have seen advertized is the Dressler ara 2000, But it seems a little high in cost. >I called Gilfer for information on it but they couldn't tell me much about it . >Also what can I expect to hear in this frequency range. I have posted to the >scanner groups but got no response. Hope you folks can help. >thanks in advance. >wpresho@ibm.net What you need is the "Spectrum Guide", by Bennett Kobb. New Signals Press, P. O. Box 435, Falls Church VA 22040. e-mail: spectrum@newsignals.com. I have the book and it is EXCELLENT. It's at a ham price, too -- something li ke $29. Cheers. Jim, WU0I From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:55 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnews.wa.com!uw-coco!uw-beaver!cornellcs!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!primus.ac.net!news.cais.net!news1.radix.net!xcitor From: xcitor@saltmine.radix.net (xcitor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Plans Date: 12 Feb 1996 15:07:23 GMT Organization: People's Republic of Laurel, MD, USA Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4fnl3b$bef@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I'm looking for plans to build a j pole antenna for 2 meters. Anyone know of any web pages or ftp site with a good amount of homebrew antenna plans? TIA From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:56 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!mel.dit.csiro.au!news.bhp.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux7.cso.uiuc.edu!r-clay From: r-clay@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu (Rudolf T Clay) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Best wire antenna Opinions? Date: 9 Feb 1996 20:18:30 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4fga6m$t35@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <4fe9jh$ema@news.rain.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux7.cso.uiuc.edu allenm@rain.org (Allen) writes: >I was about to put up a wire antenna today >and i was wondering if there were any new >tricks out there or would a regular dipole >be my best shot, >i have a yaesu 101ee >300 watt transmatch >500 feet #14 copper >plenty of scrap pvc pipe for insulators >coax, >and enough room for a full size 160m dipole It all depends on what kind of vertical supports you have. Trees? Tower? Do you operate mostly on one band, or all hf bands? Mostly low bands, or 20 and up? 73, Tor N4OGW/9 Urbana, IL n4ogw@uiuc.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:57 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!inews.intel.com!itnews.sc.intel.com!chnews!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Dummy load resistor source??? Date: 9 Feb 1996 16:27:10 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 10 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4ffsku$8ru@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <4fbfim$fsg@caesar.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cmoore.ch.intel.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:97965 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18998 Rob Bellville wrote: >I need to make a bunch of low power (< 5W) dummy loads. Where can I find >some 50 ohm 5W non-inductive resistors? Alternatively, I could use 25 and >100 ohm ones, too. Hi Rob, four 200 ohm 2 watt carbon resistors in parallel sounds just right. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:58 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!newshost.convex.com!news.dfw.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!wb3ffv!ppp61.bcpl.lib.md.us!dbaker From: dbaker@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us (Donald I. Baker) Subject: Re: Dummy load resistor source??? Sender: usenet@abs.net Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:37:24 GMT X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ppp61.bcpl.lib.md.us References: <4fbfim$fsg@caesar.ultra.net> <4ffsku$8ru@chnews.ch.intel.com> Organization: Reville Engineering Services X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Lines: 32 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:97971 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19002 In article <4ffsku$8ru@chnews.ch.intel.com> Cecil Moore writes: >From: Cecil Moore >Subject: Re: Dummy load resistor source??? >Date: 9 Feb 1996 16:27:10 GMT >Rob Bellville wrote: >>I need to make a bunch of low power (< 5W) dummy loads. Where can I find >>some 50 ohm 5W non-inductive resistors? Alternatively, I could use 25 and >>100 ohm ones, too. >Hi Rob, four 200 ohm 2 watt carbon resistors in parallel sounds just right. >73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) Try radio shack (model 21-506) dc-500Mhz 15 watt dummy load. I just bought 2 from a local RS who claims there are super discounted becuase they are being discontinued. They cost me $4.80 each. Great little widget and cheap. Don Donald I. Baker Reville Engineering Services 4619 Schenley Road Baltimore, MD 21210-2525 (410) 467-7163 Custon Harsh Environment Computers and RF Products "Where no PC has gone before..." From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:53:59 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!nntp.inc.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!redwood.shu.ac.uk!news From: Mark Pettigrew Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Dummy load resistor source??? Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 17:46:58 -0800 Organization: Sheffield Hallam University Lines: 20 Message-ID: <311BF912.1F70@shu.ac.uk> References: <4fbfim$fsg@caesar.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lti-03.lti.shu.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:98024 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19034 Rob Bellville wrote: > > Hi! > > I need to make a bunch of low power (< 5W) dummy loads. Where can I find > some 50 ohm 5W non-inductive resistors? Alternatively, I could use 25 and > 100 ohm ones, too. > > I have looked quite hard for 5W non-inductive resistors, and they are not easy to find. 2W ones are relatively easy. There are some higher wattage ones (20W, I think) in TO220 packages. However, if you only want about 5W, you could simply put two 100 ohm resistors in parallel. It'll give you 4W. However, for showrt periods, provided the resistors are well spaced from each other and any mounting so there is a decent air flow round them, 5W shouldn't be a problem. You could try series-parallel for larger power ratings. Mark G0WLR From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:00 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!usenet From: Dave Booth Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feed Line - Ethernet Coax Date: 7 Feb 1996 04:51:19 GMT Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4f9b47$lek@nntp.crl.com> References: <01I0UK8D2JUA00201O@uthscsa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.113.223.131 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12 (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP19) X-URL: news:01I0UK8D2JUA00201O@uthscsa.edu Hum i think i might have to try that!!! thanks de dave kc6wfs. http://www.lookup.com/Homepages/65348/home.html From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:01 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.gate.net!news-adm From: donstone@gate.net (Don Stoner) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Florida Ham Antenna Restrictions - ch125.htm (0/1) Date: 13 Feb 1996 19:47:42 GMT Organization: CyberGate, Inc. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4fqpsu$143k@news.gate.net> References: <199602011849.MAA05482@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> <4f7v2j$296@news.atlantic.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: stpfl-29.gate.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 Richard....you can find a copy of the Florida law in my Restrictive Antenna Covenants home page. The address is: http://www.webcom.com/~sjl/STONER/ANTENNA.html From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:02 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: G5RV Date: 9 Feb 1996 11:52:10 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 58 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ffu3q$dsm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Steve, Are you paying attention? In article , n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) writes: > >From the looks of these swrs, a tuner will be need for solid state rigs >anyway. A recent article in QST proved that many tuners have considerable >losses. Add that to the 2 to 4 db lost from the coax and you have even >more loss. I test new tuner designs several times a year. I find the WORSE CASE losses are ~20% on 160 and ten, and much less at the mid ranges. I have no idea what the QST test indicated, but my method was accurate. Let me say this, if the loss is 20% with 1000 watts, 200 watts of heat is generated. That makes for a very hot tuner even with very little loss! But what does that have to do with the constant hacking away at the G5RV? The open wire dipole so "wildly" endorsed needs a tuner also, and it can be (and often is) at an extreme impedance that maximizes tuner loss. The loss in the G5RV coax isn't 2 to 4 dB in the coax on 80, 40 or 20. It can be lower than that on the high end of the HF spectrum! >Why is the G5RV considered a mutliband antenna? Because the SWR is low on 80, 40 and 20 (for an 80 meter basic design). >Is there some magic swr the qualifies it? No, just the right things coming together at those points. >Put up any old loop in any configeration that is at least one wavelength around and it >will have better matches to coax then this. So you are saying I can squish up a loop, and weave it in and out of other conductors, and it will always have a low SWR? Or that it can be 1-1/4 wl circum and have a low SWR? Almost any loop like you describe won't be better on 80, 40 and 20. The SWR is still in the 2:1 range (+ or - losses or ground effects that make the SWR look better or worse). The loop is fine in some applications, and so is the G5RV. The loop becomes BW restricted on higher overtones, plus the impedance rises. For my application (DX'ing), the pattern stinks. Every antenna has advantages and disadvantages. The best antenna is determined by what the user wants. I want a clean predictable low angle pattern and reasonable SWR on the lower bands. The G5RV provides that quite nicely in less space. I can keep my G5RV antenna centered over a good ground system and away from other stuff. I can load it like a T on 160 and work Europeans almost the same as I can with my 135 ft vertical. I get 160, 80, 40 and 20 with a low SWR and great DX performance with only two supports! A loop is better? Not for me. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:03 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!aimnet.com!news.exodus.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!jaring.my!usenet From: chongws@bpahat.pl.my (Cheong Wai Seng) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: G5RV Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 03:05:06 GMT Organization: Unconfigured Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4fjmv6$cig@jaring.my> NNTP-Posting-Host: j7.srg2.jaring.my X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I am interested to know the theory behind the G5RV long wire antenna. Can anybody e-mail me or post it in this Newsgroup please? From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:04 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bga.com!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx02-47 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ground Radials...?ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 09:07:37 GMT Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4ff2r8$mhg@maureen.teleport.com> References: <8BA5237.02CF000724.uuout@cencore.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-47.teleport.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 In article <8BA5237.02CF000724.uuout@cencore.com>, forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) wrote: >. . . >"Good luck with 16 or 32" radials? That presumes some special >definition of luck, I suppose. But keep in mind that 40 to >50 1/4 wavelength radials will produce about 50 ohms >resistive for self impedance of a 1/4 wavelength vertical. >Recall that a perfect ground screen will find it to be 36.5 ohms. >The percentage higher than that represents loss of RF energy >that won't be radiated but will only warm up the surrounding >ground. Are you sure you have these numbers right, Forrest? Brown, Lewis, and Epstein show about one ohm of loss resistance for 60 99-degree radials, and about two ohms for 30 99-degree radials. (Ref. fig. 26, p. 772.) I've measured feedpoint resistances of less than 50 ohms on verticals with seven radials. 73, Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:05 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ground Radials...?ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ Message-ID: <8BA5237.02CF000724.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 09:27:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 18 JK> 2. As far as RF is concerned, you are simulating a conductive JK> surface, and the more conductors the better--up to a point. AM JK> broadcasters figure 120 radials is good, but hams have good luck JK> with 16 or 32. As you add wires, you need to double the previous JK> number to get a significant result. Plan on at least 1/4 wavelength JK> for the lowest band desired. "Good luck with 16 or 32" radials? That presumes some special definition of luck, I suppose. But keep in mind that 40 to 50 1/4 wavelength radials will produce about 50 ohms resistive for self impedance of a 1/4 wavelength vertical. Recall that a perfect ground screen will find it to be 36.5 ohms. The percentage higher than that represents loss of RF energy that won't be radiated but will only warm up the surrounding ground. * RM 1.3 02583 * while (forever) { day++; dollar--; } From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:06 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.accessone.com!news From: vbook@vbook.com (Ed Mitchell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave Subject: Ham Radio Online goes Interactive! Check us out! Date: 12 Feb 1996 16:20:22 GMT Organization: Virtual Publishing Co. Lines: 44 Message-ID: <4fnpc6$38f@news.accessone.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vbook.accessone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:98010 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14099 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13295 rec.radio.amateur.space:6310 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19025 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24869 rec.radio.amateur.policy:33073 rec.radio.scanner:45431 rec.radio.shortwave:70000 INTRODUCING HAM RADIO ONLINE INTERACTIVE! Now you can post free classified ads, DX openings, VHF band openings and much more. And with over 10,000 readers stopping by last month, your thoughts will actually get read at this ham radio web site! We are not just pointers to cyberspace - we've got actual content - feature articles, newsletters, product reviews, real-time propagation conditions and more. The February 1996 edition of Ham Radio Online International Magazine is available at http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm Some of the NEW February stories include a review of SkyTel's "2-way paging" s ystem, radio surveillance frequencies, and the effects of two-way radio operation in blasting zones. Ham Radio Online has been selected as a featured web site by America Online and a Top 100 web site for the month of January by Planet Earth, Inc. New articles are available now and we add articles throughout the month. Ham Radio Online has up-to-date news about Amateur Radio from around the world , feature stories, real-time propagation and auroral condition reports, real-tim e earthquake and severe weather conditions for emergency communications planning , online humor section and the Ham Radio Online Library with fully indexed (find any section with just a mouse click) Part 97 rules and regulations. Plus we cover broadcasting, shortwave, scanning generally anything having to do with radio telecommunications. And we plan to offer some totally cool new services during the coming months. As always its free and free of ads. Thanks to you, we had over 10,000 readers stop by during January! Please enjoy! 73, Ed Mitchell KF7VY vbook@vbook.com http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm ------------------------ personal email to vbook@vbook.com Visit Ham Radio Online, it's free, at http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline .htm From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:07 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.accessus.net!news.one.net!news From: Jim Nance Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hazer for Rohn 25G Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 15:09:07 -0500 Organization: OneNet Communications HUB News Server Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3120EFE3.7786@mail.one.net> References: <4fm89g$4m5@news.cais.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: port-5-6.access.one.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) To: David Whitehurst I used one with a 50 ft. rohn 25g tower for over 9 years. Sold it with the tower when I moved. It worked very well; However sometimes it did hang up and I would have to climb the tower to free it up. An easy process. I felt like kicking myself many times for selling it. 73 de KE4WY David Whitehurst wrote: > > Anyone have any experience with the "Hazer" tram system ??? I was looking in to > putting one on my Rohn 25G tower(they have a kit built for the 25G Rohn). > I'm hopping this will be the solution to climbing my tower :) . > -David. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:08 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: COMUNICA@mvax1.red.cinvestav.MX (ESTUDIANTES DE COMUNICACIONES) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: re:help calculating transmission power Date: 9 Feb 96 20:42:00 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 17 Message-ID: <199602092044.MAA14215@UCSD.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Considering that at the receiveng point fo the antena you will have -120 dBm and that at the transmitting point of the antena you will have -80 dBm, and finally at the output of the transmitter you will need -90 dBm (1 pW). This result was calculated taking 40 dB of transmission losses (free space model, because of the frequency). You need to have a line of sight, so that there are no obstructions neither reflecting paths that would increment your losses. Also you maybe need to increment your power so that the losses in mismatches and other losses are taking into account. I hope this could be helpful for you. bye, Benjamin. . From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:09 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!news.jsums.edu!despina.neptune.com!news From: Eduardo Artigas Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help on uses for automatic antenna tuner. Date: 9 Feb 1996 20:08:38 GMT Organization: United Nations in Guatemala Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4fg9k6$ljk@despina.neptune.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 200.12.63.145 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) I have access to a few automatic antenna tuners similar to the SGC one, but made (?) by Motorola. Other than using it with a vertical or long wire I read somenthing about using with a dipole or a loop. Any ideas, variations or information will be appreciated either to my E-Mail or here. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:10 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!newsfeed.gsfc.nasa.gov!usenet From: parise@gelato.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ron Parise) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: HF Magnetic mount? Date: 9 Feb 1996 15:43:50 GMT Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center -- Greenbelt, Maryland USA Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4ffq3m$r5a@post.gsfc.nasa.gov> References: <4fdlfc$sb7@service-2.agate.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: astrolap.gsfc.nasa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7 In article <4fdlfc$sb7@service-2.agate.net>, ns1z@agate.net says... > >Well, they look attractive and for versatility it would appear they can't >be beat. However, if they fall off while one is careening down the >highway they might not be worth it. Anyone have any tales they would like >to relate? I am thinking of getting one to use on my old Jimmy/S15 as >well as the occaisonal rental car for a Hustler style HF mobile whip. >Your experiences would be appreciated. Thanks! I have used a large 3 magnet mount for HF mobile for many years. I use the 8ft tall ham stick type antennas and have never had any problems. In my experience the problem is not having the antenna come loose while you are driving but trying to get it off when you are done! Mine requires a lot of force to get the magnets loose and you have to be very careful not to slide it around and scratch the roof when trying to get it off. Ron wa4sir From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:11 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.inc.net!novia!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uchinews!ncar!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Homebrew 160 Meter Vertical Date: 7 Feb 1996 20:56:56 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4fb3mo$j0t@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu Correction on my previous message on same subject. Feedpoint impedance of a thin quarter wave vertical over perfect earth is 36.56 + j 22.25. Charlie, W7XC -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:11 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-ulm.de!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!jacobi.agnld.uni-potsdam.DE!not-for-mail From: Jan-Martin Hertzsch Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Long wire on VHF - again Date: 13 Feb 1996 17:11:35 GMT Organization: Max-Planck-Arbeitsgruppe "Nichtlineare Dynamik" Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4fqgo7$5em@fu-berlin.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: jacobi.agnld.uni-potsdam.de (141.89.176.25) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Access: 16 51 959 960 X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) X-URL: news://news.fu-berlin.de/rec.radio.amateur.antenna Dear YLs and OMs, recently, I asked whether anybody has experiences with long wire antennas on VHF because I wanted to try one. Now I have read again the description of this antenna and found that some details are missing there (in the German translation). Can anybody help me to locate the original article? It was published in OM 49 (1981) no. 3 p. 18, unfortunately no library in my area has got this journal. I am also interested in an article in OM 49 (1981) No. 9 where a rhombic antenna for UHF is proposed. By the way, which kind/brand of resistors are suitable as terminating resistors of a rhombic antenna (I intend to use about 25 W TX output power)? Thanks in advance for any help. Jan-Martin From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:12 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dimensional.com!winternet.com!news From: sholisky Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Loop Skywire Date: 10 Feb 1996 23:41:36 GMT Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4fjafg$b7k@blackice.winternet.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-67-19.dialup.winternet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:DMJApo.K5o@iglou.com I've had a few winters of using a full size horz.80 meter loop. My results at 30 feet ( in the clear ) are very positive. Coax & balun or 450 ohm line both work well. As for results some of the strongest signals I have ever heard ! Great choice for qrp work... 73's Scott WB0ATR From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:13 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!guitar.sound.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Loop Skywire Date: 9 Feb 1996 04:42:25 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 10 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ff4u1$8vb@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I have a 15 meter horizontal loop in the attic, fed at one corner with RG-58. A tuner is used on 20,15, and 10 meters. I have even made a few contacts on 40 meters with it. It is the best indoor antenna I have ever had, and it compares well on 15 and 10 meters with a Butternut vertical, ground mounted in a crummy location. I would think that a full sized version, outside, in the clear, and at a reasonable height, would perform very well. However, theoretically, you would expect it to radiate upward (a cloud warmer antenna). --Wayne W5GIE / Redlands, CA From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:14 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!primus.ac.net!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!newspost1.alt.net!NewsWatcher!user From: dragonsl@scn.org (Ralph Lindberg & Ellen Winnie) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mac software for antenna analysis Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 08:04:18 -0700 Organization: Home Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <4fbmb9$u4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.2.0b4 In article <4fbmb9$u4@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, swaincw@aol.com (SWAINCW) wrote: >Does anyone have suggestions regarding Mac programs for antenna analysis >which are capable of modeling multielement quads? I haven't tried it for quads, but NEC2(mac) should do it. I down loaded it from one of the Mac FTP sites Ralph -- Ralph Lindberg N7BSN e-mail to dragonsl@scn.org (read daily) RV and Camping FAQ Reply-To: aw638@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu My friend Quinlan, W0GLG, wants me to ask the group a question. He has an 80 foot tower erected over poor ground (decomposed granite). He can mount a beam at 80 feet and another beam 6 feet lower. That is, beams will be separated by 6 feet. He has a 10/15/20 tribander and he has a 40M monobander. Given above data, which he says he will not change...... which antenna should be on top?? Should he have the monobander at 80 feet and the tribander at 74 feet??? Should he have the tribander at 80 feet and the monobander at 74 feet??? He lives in Colorado and is a dx chaser. Tnx.....Lee KA0FPJ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:16 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!news.uoregon.edu!news.orst.edu!news.PEAK.ORG!engr.orst.edu!osshe.edu!internet!oconneld From: Dan O'Connell Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: nec documentation Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 18:22:51 -0800 Organization: Oregon State System of Higher Education Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <4eq1tt$r3a@thebes.waikato.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: internet.oit.osshe.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: oconneld@internet In-Reply-To: <4eq1tt$r3a@thebes.waikato.ac.nz> On 1 Feb 1996 spearce@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz wrote: > > Is there any documentation describing the use etc of NEC available > via the internet? > Yes, I believe I saw it on a ftp? in the SF area that has lots of ham programs. look under the downloadable programs for NEC and you can print out the instructions. I have them but not currently with me. hope this helps. Dan WA7TDZ oconneld@mail.oit.osshe.edu> > > From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:17 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!redwood.shu.ac.uk!news From: Mark Pettigrew Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 10:18:09 -0800 Organization: Sheffield Hallam University Lines: 14 Message-ID: <311F8461.A0C@shu.ac.uk> References: <199602012003.PAA08421@franklin-fddi.cris.com> <4f2uad$174m@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4fdcqk$pfr@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lti-03.lti.shu.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) > I thought it wasn't > working until I read a G5RV application note from Antennas West and > realized that my N/S orientation was at fault. Rotating it by 15 degrees > made all the difference in the world, e.g. Europe, Pacific Rim, S.America. > > 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) Do you have a copy of the relevant bits from the app note, or more details of the source? Thanks Mark G0WLR From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:18 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail From: kk5ni@rapidramp.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Opinions on portable antennas? Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 01:17:49 GMT Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4foorh$5hp@alterdial.UU.NET> Reply-To: clarkc2@rpi.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: pppl25.rapidramp.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Does anyone have an opinion on the: 1) MFJ-1621 2) Barker & WIlliamson AP-10 portable antennnas? Any response would be _greatly_ appreciated! Robert From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:19 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!news From: Paul Moller Subject: Re: Passive mobile antennas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: MOTOROLA Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 12:34:20 -0600 Message-ID: <311F882C.596D@csg.mot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4figaa$9qn@feenix.metronet.com> Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account) Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.188.36.8 Lines: 28 David de Schweinitz wrote: > > 3. Finally, I've been toying with the idea of using a 1/4-wave pickup > duct-taped to to the phone to couple to a coax-fed antenna. I don't have > much hope, both because decent coupling would still be a problem and yes coupling is still an issue, in that I would expect to get around -10dB co upling. But, the path from the inside of the vehicle to the outside can easily exceed 10dB, you might have something here. Try making a dipole with the top half next to the phones whip, and the bottom half next t o the other half of the phones antenna, namely its case. > because I'm worried about the direct signal from the phone beating > against the coax-fed phone signal. This might not be too bad if the > coax-fed phone has a lot more gain than the internal antenna (such as the > portable log-periodic that a friend built me that works great when > screwed in to a phone with a real antenna jack). The signal that has made its way out of the vehicle is very highly cross polar ized as well as full of phase distortion as it is. Not to mention what the highly reflective path does to the signal on it wa y to the base station. Don't worry in the least about extra phase or amplitude distortions that you may add! > It MIGHT do some good in mobile applications. > > I'd appreciate any comments from people who have tried any passive > coupling schemes. > > TNX > Dave KD5KZ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:20 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!news.ecn.bgu.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!xmission!provo3 From: fmajeure@xmission.com (Force Majeure) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PC interferes with TV Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 15:30:50 GMT Organization: XMission Internet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4fl1ra$ebg@news.xmission.com> References: <4f2iis$ve@news-e2a.gnn.com> <4f2vr1$e18@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <1996Feb6.033850.22997@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: provo3.xmission.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 In article <1996Feb6.033850.22997@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) wrote: >Don't be *too* quick to write off the computer. You *can* use a >noisy computer if you improve the case shielding. Even the noisest >motherboard can be brought down to Tempest levels if you use good Dont' use "Tempest" levels as an overall EMI spec. They are very far from it. Using a Tempest-compliant computer as a catch-all cure for RFI may work, but it is no guarantee. Any class B-complaint computer can also be considered a catch-all cure for RFI. Force Majeure fmajeure@xmission.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:21 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Message-ID: <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Organization: Destructive Testing Systems References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:52:17 GMT Lines: 39 In article Cecil Moore writes: >Garry Foster writes: > >>Well I guess I need to reread this article as I thought it was >>"supposed" to be a full spectrum(hf) tunner. In other words >>functionally equal to the SGC, Icom and Kenwood tuner. Why would it > >I'm thinking if someone goes to that much trouble to build an auto >tuner that matches no better than a commercial unit, why bother? Perhaps because commercial tuners fill a need, and a homebrew version might be cheaper? You could build tuning networks into each antenna you use, or you could use an autotuner to handle matching the various antennas to the radio. The former case isn't as flexible or generically useful as the latter. >If you match your auto-tuner design to your antenna, it will accomplish >perfect matching as opposed to "full-spectrum" matching, be lower loss >on the average, and require half the components. Thus my original question. Yeah, but then the "tuner" is only useful with one antenna. You have to build another tuner if you want to tune a different antenna. The commercial tuners, and this "homebrew" auto tuner, allow you to use it with a *variety* of different antennas. You could even add a switch so that the tuner selects the best antenna for a particular frequency (as some of the commercial tuners do). >One of the advantages to an auto-tuner is that it can be located anywhere >in the system. It seems ridiculous not to locate it at an optimum position. This increased flexibility doesn't negate the ability to mount the tuner in an advantageous location. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:22 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.inc.net!imci3!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 00:34:44 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com X-To: Gary Coffman Gary Coffman writes: >might be cheaper? You could build tuning networks into each antenna >you use, or you could use an autotuner to handle matching the various >antennas to the radio. The former case isn't as flexible or generically >useful as the latter. Based on the signal strength measurements from my antenna system, the customized tuner performs up to 2 'S' units better than my MFJ-949. That seems downright useful to me. >This increased flexibility doesn't negate the ability to mount the >tuner in an advantageous location. Unfortunately, with my 102 ft. centerfed, there is no advantageous location for all the bands. The best I could do was at 82 ft for 40m, 20m, 15m, and 10m. The balun was stressed on 75m, 30m, 17m, and 12m. With my present tuning system, the balun always sees close to 300 ohms resistive. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:24 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 20:45:30 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <1996Feb12.225254.29664@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com X-To: Gary Coffman Gary Coffman writes: >12 db? Hmmm, that means that if you're transmitting with 100 watts >the tuner is dissipating 93.75 watts. Must get pretty hot. I'd >suggest the tuner is broken. Hi again, Gary. I don't know how many dB in an 'S' unit on N5AQM's receiver. Could be 4. Not all the loss is occuring in the tuner. The balun sees 120+j1000 ohms on 75m and I suspect most of the loss is there. The tuner is not broken. The signal strength increase is because the balanced tuner deals with 300 plus j1500 ohms and the balun deals with 300 plus j0 ohms. I kid you not - the results are amazing compared to my previous configuration with the same antenna. My previous configuration is what a lot of "experts" recommend. 102 ft dipole fed with 300 ohm ladder-line into a 4:1 balun into an antenna tuner. For all of the hams who are using that configuration, there is a much better way to go. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:25 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 21:05:15 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4fokfv$poa@usenet.pa.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com X-To: Todd Little Todd Little writes: >This seems a little hard to accept if in fact both provide an >equally good or poor match and the feed line/antenna in both >cases are the same. Even with a generous S meter, 2 S units It has been hard for me to accept also. In fact, the improvement is close to unbelievable. The matches are obviously not equal. The feedline/ antenna is the same in both cases. Here are the differences. 1. 102 ft centerfed with 300 ohm ladder-line. 4:1 balun into coax into MFJ-949. Balun sees 120+j1000 on 75m. Don't know what the tuner sees. 2. Same antenna and feedline. Series toroidal inductors at the 300-j1500 point drops the impedance to 300 ohms which is what the 4:1 balun sees. How many hams are throwing away most of their power with configuration 1 and don't realize it? 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:25 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!nntp.inc.net!news.sol.net!uniserve!van-bc!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail From: David Nulton Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Screwdriver Ant. Plans Wanted Date: 10 Feb 1996 00:03:01 GMT Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4fgnbl$5f6@alterdial.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: node094.axiom.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13270 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19005 Does anyone know of a resource for building a screwdriver antenna? Perhaps a net resource, magazine article etc. Thanks and 73s de KI5XW From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:27 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.sol.net!solaria.sol.net!garyk9gs From: garyk9gs@solaria.sol.net (Gary Schwartz) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Telrex tribanders and spinning elements Date: 10 Feb 1996 06:44:37 GMT Organization: Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI Lines: 37 Message-ID: <4fhesl$2tj@hummin.sol.net> References: <311BB812.69AA@intermediainc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: solaria.sol.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Jeff DePolo WN3A (depolo@intermediainc.com) wrote: : We've got a Telrex 5-element tribander at one of our club stations. We, : like several other hams I've talked to that have this antenna, have had : a chronic problem with the 20 meter reflector "tilting" with respect to : the rest of the elements and the boom. The design of the yagi is that : the elements go through the boom. The 20 meter reflector has an : additional collar that surrounds the boom and is supposed to provide : additional mechanical reinforcement. What happens is that, over time, : the hole in the boom and the collar through which the element passes : becomes enlarged from wind/rotor motion, allowing the whole element to : tilt out of the plane of the other elements. The collar itself also : rotates around the boom with the element motion. Basically the design : of the whole assembly is pretty poor. : Anyone else had this problem with the Telrex tribanders, and have you : come up with a good fix? : --- Jeff Hi Jeff. I would suggest either pop-riveting the collar to the boom in SEVERAL places or, and I'm not kidding, have the whole collar/boom heli-arc welded together. -- 73, Gary K9GS (You have to STOP the Q-Tip when there's resistance !) ________________________________________________________________ | | | Gary Schwartz K9GS E-Mail: garyk9gs@solaria.sol.net | | Society of Midwest Contesters Packet:K9GS@WA9KEC.WI.USA.NOAM | | Greater Milwaukee DX Association Secretary/Treasurer | |________________________________________________________________| From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:28 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.localnet.com!intac!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!ub!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!oleane!nntp.coast.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!news From: jm@drsmesh.com (Joe Mesh) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Telrex tribanders and spinning elements Date: 12 Feb 1996 00:01:05 GMT Organization: DRs. Mesh, P.C. Lines: 54 Message-ID: <4fm001$2hn@pravda.aa.msen.com> References: <311BB812.69AA@intermediainc.com> <4fhesl$2tj@hummin.sol.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmesh.pnet.msen.com X-Newsreader: OUI 1.0.3 B1 >> have the whole collar/boom heli-arc welded together. << Exactly! I have followed Telrex products for years. The 6 element 20m and the 3 element 40m yagis definitely have this problem. Many modifications have been tried to overcome this problem in an attempt to extend the useful service free life of these fine antennas. Some who have encountered this problem and tried to counter it have even been fine mechanical engineers. Most solutions fail at 200ft with ice over a period of many years. Only the welding seems to be a permanent solution for the high wind, 200ft radial ice loaded application. I have never seen a welded solution fail. I have seen pins drilled through vertically that have failed. Some engineers have specified various diameters and tempers of stainless alloys. Some people include rope in the elements in an attempt to fabricate a harmonic dampener of some sort (meaning without a mathematical approach or testing). Only the welding seems to last. The problem with the welded solution is that it eliminates disassembly for movement to a new QTH or resale to another user. It also requires a welder with good skill to keep the whole structure straight and aligned. He must have portable equipment and inert gas tanks to weld this in the field near the place of erection. If one intends to weld the element pieces as well they really should fabricate a method of trial erection to examine loading, SWR, and band width at the desired frequencies as after the welds little opportunity remains for change. -- Thanks....AA8NF - Joe from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA 02/11/96 19:00 _______________________________________ Always available at: jm@drsmesh.com -or- AA8NF@drsmesh.com Please visit our Web Page at: http://www.drsmesh.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.1 mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/ PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4 vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg== =+hd/ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:29 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!news From: jm@drsmesh.com (AA8NF) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Telrex tribanders and spinning elements Date: 13 Feb 1996 04:54:29 GMT Organization: DRs. Mesh, P.C. Lines: 45 Message-ID: <4fp5i6$cvu@pravda.aa.msen.com> References: <4fhesl$2tj@hummin.sol.net> <4fm001$2hn@pravda.aa.msen.com> <311EBE71.70FF@interramp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmesh.pnet.msen.com X-Newsreader: OUI 1.0.3 B1 >> Does the Telrex 40-meter yagi have this problem at all heights << 40m is a special problem. Welding is not a clear cut solution on 40m as the elements are slightly shortened and brought to resonance with wires down the boom. This means that the element halfs are insulated from the boom. So you need to weld but you need to machine a collar to weld first! All 40m antennas require special considerations in erection and design. Greater height usually translates to greater mechanical loading and requires consideration for any design. There is a 3 element 40 Telrex that has been at 120ft for thirty years near my QTH and it looks and performs perfectly and has never been serviced. It may be the exception though! >> anyone who put an antenna up at 150-plus feet was a little wacky anyway << Well... tell that to the guy who wants to stack 40s! -- Thanks....AA8NF - Joe from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA 02/12/96 23:53 _______________________________________ Always available at: jm@drsmesh.com -or- AA8NF@drsmesh.com Please visit our Web Page at: http://www.drsmesh.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.1 mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/ PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4 vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg== =+hd/ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:31 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!usenet From: leonz@ibm.net (Leon D. Zetekoff) Newsgroups: fl.forsale,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.swap Subject: Tower, antenna, and rotator for sale Date: 11 Feb 1996 13:03:52 GMT Organization: Z&K Enterprises Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4fkpfo$4f76@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip37-229-74.ibm.net X-Newsreader: NeoLogic News for OS/2 [version: 4.2] Xref: news.epix.net fl.forsale:10832 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19006 rec.radio.swap:57292 I have a Tri-Ex W36 (36 foot) steel crank-up tower as well as a KLM KT34 yagi, and HAM IV rotator (with feedline and cable) for sale. It is located in Boca Ratom and is down ready for pickup. I am asking $550.00 OBO for the entire package. All items are in good shape. I will not separate items from the package. I have the original prints for the tower as well as a Florida architects seal on the base blueprints. The tower was put up in November 1985 and taken down in April 1995 when I moved. If interested, please send me e-mail at the below address. I am open to any reasonable offer for the entire package. 73, Leon D. Zetekoff, N.C.E. Z&K Enterprises 1338 SW 3 Street Boca Raton, FL 33486 E-mail: leonz@ibm.net CompuServe: 74015,674 AMPRnet: wa4zlw@wa4zlw.#bcr.fl.us.na, wa4zlw@wa4zlw.ampr.org From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:32 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Travelling Wave Antennas & Terminating Resistors for same Date: 9 Feb 1996 11:52:24 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 54 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ffu48$dst@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Jim, I'd like to caution you about something. Don't trust NEC based calculations of performace near real earth. Expect it to be worse than estimated. In article , James_Chance@lastdx.blkcat.com (James Chance) writes: >In the November '95 issue of QST is an article describing a travelling wave >multi-band antenna that appears to be perfect for my lot size (especially >since >I live a covenant restricted area). The article covered the subject quite >well, >with an exception or two :-). Main one for me is, as it is fed at one end, >and >terminated with a matching impedance at the other end, what does one use to >build a terminating load that can dissipate either 50 watts (when operating >without an amplifier) or 750 watts (when using one). And it must be able to >handle these amounts of power for quite some time, as I'm not simply tuning a >transmatch. The article (nor the ARRL Antenna Handbook) mentions whether the >load must be non-inductive. I assume it should not be. Would be nice if that >wasn't a factor, as big wire-wound resistors are not too difficult to come >by. You can'y use wire wound, it has to be non-inductive like resistors made for big dummy loads. They are available for a few dollars each in the hundred watt range. >If this *is* a factor, would an oil-filled dummy load (maybe sealed up in >some way as to be completely weather-proofed) be the way to go? Yes, you could use a 9:1 transformer and a 50 ohm load. >Another minor question, what if I wanted to use ladder-line (450 ohm) as the >feedline? That would seem to shoot down the idea of using a large dummy >load... No, not easily. You would need a choke balun at the antenna's feedpoint plus a balanced output from the tuner in the house. I suspect the antenna will be a large dummy load no matter what you do. But give it a try, you never know. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:33 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.crosslink.net!news1.agis.net!agis!news.walltech.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!wb3ffv!blkcat.blkcat.com!f41.n109.z1.fidonet.org!f42.n109.z1.fidonet.org!p2.lastdx.blkcat.com!not-for-mail Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 19:12:14 -0500 From: James_Chance@lastdx.blkcat.com (James Chance) Subject: Travelling Wave Antennas & Terminating Resistors for same Message-ID: Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway Lines: 25 X-Gateway: FIDO .. blkcat.fidonet.org [FIDOGATE 3.9.6] X-FTN-Tearline: X-FTN-Origin: Remnants of The Last Relay (1:109/582.2) X-FTN-Domain: Z1@fidonet X-FTN-Seen-By: 109/41 42 239 582 X-FTN-Path: 109/582 42 Hello All! In the November '95 issue of QST is an article describing a travelling wave multi-band antenna that appears to be perfect for my lot size (especially sinc e I live a covenant restricted area). The article covered the subject quite well , with an exception or two :-). Main one for me is, as it is fed at one end, an d terminated with a matching impedance at the other end, what does one use to build a terminating load that can dissipate either 50 watts (when operating without an amplifier) or 750 watts (when using one). And it must be able to handle these amounts of power for quite some time, as I'm not simply tuning a transmatch. The article (nor the ARRL Antenna Handbook) mentions whether the load must be non-inductive. I assume it should not be. Would be nice if that wasn't a factor, as big wire-wound resistors are not too difficult to come by. If this *is* a factor, would an oil-filled dummy load (maybe sealed up in some way as to be completely weather-proofed) be the way to go? Another minor question, what if I wanted to use ladder-line (450 ohm) as the feedline? That would seem to shoot down the idea of using a large dummy load... As I'm really interested in giving this a shot, any help would be greatly appreciated... Jim N3TKD From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:34 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.gdbnet.ad.jp!news.hebel.net!news.sics.se!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!primus.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.wko.com!visuallink.com!usenet From: Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Verticals Work! Date: 11 Feb 1996 10:08:59 GMT Organization: Visual Link Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4fkf7r$qv@visuallink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp5.visuallink.com Content-Type: text/plain Keywords: antennas, ham, radio Content-length: 551 X-Newsreader: AIR Mosaic (16-bit) version 4.00.08.08 I have good results from a vertical.--- top loaded with a horizontal wire on 1 60 meters. meters. This is usually called a T, but really it is a top loaded vertical as radiation from the horizontal part cancels, and the radiation pattern is essentiallly that of any vertical--- low angle and circular. Of course I have a radial system, 24 wires 66 feet long (except where structures are in the way. The T is 50 feet of wire connected to the center of 132 feet, and there is a tuner at the base. 73 Guy W4PSJ email at wpsj@visuallink.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:35 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.channel1.com!wizard.pn.com!sundog.tiac.net!jflood.tiac.net!user From: jflood@tiac.net (John Flood) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: WTB UHF Log periodic Date: 12 Feb 1996 02:40:33 GMT Organization: The Internet Access Company Lines: 4 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: jflood.tiac.net Looking for a mil. surplus log periodic in the 200 - 400 MHZ range. Please send details via e-mail. John From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:36 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!munnari.OZ.AU!mel.dit.csiro.au!actcsiro!news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!wabbit.cc.uow.edu.au!news.une.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!tmx!news.tmx.com.au!news.acay.com.au!news From: spiro evagelakos (spiroe@acay.com.au) Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.amateur.wicen,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: WTB:5KW AM Transmitter Date: 12 Feb 1996 10:19:25 GMT Organization: ACAY Network Computing P/L, Sydney AUSTRALIA. Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4fn47d$j76@www.acay.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: spiroe.acay.com.au X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) Xref: news.epix.net aus.radio.amateur.misc:428 aus.radio.amateur.wicen:67 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19019 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14094 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24856 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13283 rec.radio.amateur.misc:98001 rec.radio.scanner:45416 rec.radio.swap:57330 This time I am after a second hand 5KW AM Transmitter Regards Spiro From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:37 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!ns.saard.net!yarrina.connect.com.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!munnari.OZ.AU!mel.dit.csiro.au!actcsiro!news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!wabbit.cc.uow.edu.au!news.une.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!tmx!news.tmx.com.au!news.acay.com.au!news From: spiro evagelakos (spiroe@acay.com.au) Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.amateur.wicen,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: WTB:AMATURE TRANSMITTER @ 160MTRS Date: 12 Feb 1996 10:15:25 GMT Organization: ACAY Network Computing P/L, Sydney AUSTRALIA. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4fn3vt$j76@www.acay.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: spiroe.acay.com.au X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) Xref: news.epix.net aus.radio.amateur.misc:427 aus.radio.amateur.wicen:66 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19018 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14093 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24855 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13282 rec.radio.amateur.misc:98000 rec.radio.scanner:45415 rec.radio.swap:57329 Hi , I am after a second hand amature transmitter for the 160mtr band Regards Spiro From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:38 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!munnari.OZ.AU!mel.dit.csiro.au!actcsiro!news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!wabbit.cc.uow.edu.au!news.une.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!tmx!news.tmx.com.au!news.acay.com.au!news From: spiro evagelakos (spiroe@acay.com.au) Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.amateur.wicen,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: WTB:LINEAR AMPLIFIER FOR 160MTR BAND Date: 12 Feb 1996 10:17:15 GMT Organization: ACAY Network Computing P/L, Sydney AUSTRALIA. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4fn43b$j76@www.acay.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: spiroe.acay.com.au X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) Xref: news.epix.net aus.radio.amateur.misc:426 aus.radio.amateur.wicen:65 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19017 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14092 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24854 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13281 rec.radio.amateur.misc:97999 rec.radio.scanner:45414 rec.radio.swap:57328 Hi , I am after a second hand linear Amplifier for the 160mtr band Regards Spiro From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:39 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!a3bsrv.nai.net!mgate.arrl.org!news From: Zack Lau Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: WTD: Leaky Coax Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:32:45 -0500 Organization: American Radio Relay League Lines: 33 Message-ID: <311CF2DD.A2C@arrl.org> References: <4fbfeg$fsg@caesar.ultra.net> <1996Feb9.055634.9473@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: zlau.arrl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6b (Win16; I) To: Gary Coffman Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:97961 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18996 Gary Coffman wrote: > > >1) Can I modify normal coax (like RG-8/U) by cutting slots or some other > >method to achieve "leaky-ness"? > > Not practically. It looks to me like Andrew takes ordinary Heliax and mills slots in the cable. "Holes are milled in the corrugation peaks of the outer conductor to form the radiating cable." p.564 of their catalog 36. I also recall that you considered Heliax to be ordinary coax, and not something exotic. > >2) Where can I buy leaky coax at a reasonable price? > > The trade name for what you want is "Radiax". I believe it is > made by Andrew. It is not cheap (around $2 a foot). > > There is another way. You can use drop fittings in the line and > dipole antennas at intervals. Use 30 db couplers for your drop > fittings near the transmitter, and increasingly larger coupling > factors as you get further away from the transmitter, IE use a > 12 db coupler, a 6 db coupler, a 3 db coupler, and finally just > put an antenna directly on the end of the line. Why the need for different value couplers? After all, with the commercial product aren't all the slots the same size, so that the coupling factor is the same? Of course, you probably want to feed it in the center and perhaps vary the coupling in a couple spots to optimize coverage. Zack KH6CP/1 zlau@arrl.org From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:40 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help calculating transmission power" Date: 10 Feb 96 15:39:48 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199602101539.HAA11177@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "calculating" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:40 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on uses for automatic antenna tuner." Date: 11 Feb 96 07:37:19 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199602110737.XAA16169@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "on" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 13 20:54:41 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail From: zawodny@primenet.com (David D. Zawodny) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ~~~? What is the best coax cable for CB's?~~~~ Date: 10 Feb 1996 16:51:01 -0700 Organization: Huuda Thunkit Lines: 36 Sender: root@primenet.com Message-ID: <4fjb15$8jb@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> References: <4dpris$qhs@hgea01.hgea.org> <4dr03e$n1l@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ebt3g$fkn@news.mcn.net> <4fh4tv$ah5@zeus.crosslink.net> X-Posted-By: ip201.tol.primenet.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 chestert@crosslink.net (Chester Alderman) wrote: >In message - js@ibbs.av.org (Jeff Stillinger) writes : >:> >:>Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL (vfiscus@mcn.net) wrote: >:> >:>: Best Coax for CB is one that ends in a dummy load. >:> >:> >:>It is VERY important that when using CB radio to mount your coax in a >:>strait line, placing a nail though the coax every 3 feet. Roofing nails >:>work best. This will keep the cable from flopping about in the wind. >:> >:>-- >:>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >:>Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB js@ibbs.av.org >:>PSC Box 3429 js@red-eft.la.ca.us >:>Edwards AFB, CA 93524 +1 805 258 7303 8N1 >:>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >If you listen to the ham bands during a pile-up, or if you listen to some of >the 'broadcast' on the ham bands, or if you listen to the cussin and >inexcuseable operation on the ham bands, you certainly could apply the above >'advice' to a hell of a lot of ham radio operators. >Tom / W4BQF >chestert@crosslink.net Also, try using RG-174/U. That way, you can use staples instead of nails. It is small enough to double knot when you tie it around supports like water pipes, TV masts, etc. You get the idea:-) Dave WD8DZB From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:35:57 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@safe.ia.GOV Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 16 Feb 96 14:10:35 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 39 Message-ID: <199602161410.IAA10342@outpost.safe.ia.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu >From /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/ Fri Feb 16 0 8:18:14 CST 1996 remote from osiint.safe.ia.gov Date: 16 Feb 1996 08:09:15 -0600 X400-Trace: US*ATTMAIL*IADPS arrival 16 Feb 1996 08:09:15 -0600 action Relayed From: /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@osiint.safe. ia.gov To: "/RFC-822=Ham-Ant(a)ucsd.edu/OU=OSI-INTERNET/O=WALLACE/PRMD=IADPS/ADMD=ATT MAIL/C=US/"@osiint.safe.ia.gov In-Reply-To: <"\"/RFC-822=199602140528.VAA04987(a)mail.ucsd.edu/OU=OSI-INTERNE T/O=WALLACE/PRMD=IADPS/ADMD=ATTMAIL/C=US/\""@osiint.safe.ia.gov> Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V96 667 Importance: normal Autoforwarded: FALSE Message-Id: P1-Message-Id: US*ATTMAIL*IADPS;IDPS3550 werl0216080744aa UA-Content-Id: werl0216080744aa P1-Content-Type: P2 Priority: normal Received: from osiint.safe.ia.gov by iadpshub.safe.ia.gov; Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08 :18 CST Content-Type: text Content-Length: 782 > Date: 7 Feb 1996 20:21:43 GMT > From: Cecil Moore > Subject: G5RV > > I've been chastised for not ragging on the G5RV. IMO, saying it's not a bad > antenna falls short of endorsing it. The common advice is to replace the coa x > with ladder-line, use a 4:1 balun, and an antenna tuner. Let's see where > following that advice can lead. > > 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) > ------------------------------ Hi Cecil, I see in the rest of your message u mention using 300 ohm line. I've used 450 ohm line on my G5RV. By taking the coax out of the line, my antenna seems to work better now. My question: does the use of the 450 ohm line require a balun? Scott N0XZY werling@safe.ia.gov From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:35:58 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.charm.net!news.cais.net!primus.ac.net!news.serv.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ios.com!usenet From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 2m antenna Date: 11 Feb 1996 17:32:01 GMT Organization: Internet Online Services Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4fl96h$4km@news.ios.com> References: <4fk658$pk2@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup73.fwi.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <4fk658$pk2@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>, mlamb@sunny.ncmc.cc.mi.us (Mark Lambers on) writes: >I'm looking for a 2m vertical antenna >to buy for use with my family's 2m >base station. Any suggestions? A couple of ways to go. You can't beat the old Ringo Ranger for Dependability. I've had one up for nearly 20 years. Worked the MIR satellite twice with it last ni te. Another real inexpensive way to go is to build yourseff a 1/4 wave ground plan e by using a SO-239 connector. It'd the female end of a PL-239 Coax connector. I t has a square flange mount. Where the four predrilled holes are, run a 8-32 bol t, lock washer, and nut. At that point, fasten a 1/4 wavelength piece of #8 or #9 solid wire. You'll have one mounted at each corner. Bend then down at a 45 degree angle. The part that the PL-239 plugs into, is the 'bottom'. Find yours elf a quarter wave length, (about 19 inches to start) piece of solid copper wire. Again about #8 or #9. Solder this to the center pin of the SO-239. This is the 'radi ator' and points up. It's pretty flimsy at this point, but 'cheap'. if it was in an attic, you could suspend it from a string, and you have a 1/4 wave vertical ground plane for about 3-4 bucks. Good Luck Jim WD9AHF From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:35:58 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!chaos.aoc.nrao.edu!newshost.nmt.edu!rutgers!fdurt1.fdu.edu!xyzzy.bubble.org!newshost.cyberramp.net!news.consultix.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!caen!nas From: mlamb@sunny.ncmc.cc.mi.us (Mark Lamberson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 2m antenna Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 07:33:13 GMT Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4fk658$pk2@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: @pm023-00.dialip.mich.net Summary: Antenna Suggestions X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #0 Keyword: antenna I'm looking for a 2m vertical antenna to buy for use with my family's 2m base station. Any suggestions? From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:35:59 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!tech.cftnet.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!news.u-net.com!news From: garry@bonney.u-net.com (Garry Walker) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 4 ele Gem Quad Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 10:00:33 GMT Organization: Garry Walker Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4g1kh4$84@nuntius.u-net.net> Reply-To: garry@bonney.u-net.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bonney.u-net.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 I am trying to find out about the performance/problems with a 4 ele Gem Quad. I have used a 2 ele quad in the past on 10 metres only, but would like further info. I am interested in the feed arrangement for a 5 band version of the quad, interaction problems, etc etc. Any info would be most appreciated. Regards Garry ---------------------------------- G0IHB, GX0TEN, F/G0IHB/P Internet:garry@bonney.u-net.com Packet: G0IHB@F6KBO.FBRE.FRA.EU ---------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:01 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!news From: gpritcha@vanieee.wimsey.bc.ca (Gordon Pritchard) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 4 ele Gem Quad Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 22:27:18 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 74 Message-ID: <4g30fv$mih@fountain.mindlink.net> References: <4g1kh4$84@nuntius.u-net.net> Reply-To: gpritcha@vanieee.wimsey.bc.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: line241.nwm.mindlink.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 garry@bonney.u-net.com (Garry Walker) wrote: >I am trying to find out about the performance/problems with a 4 ele >Gem Quad. I have used a 2 ele quad in the past on 10 metres only, but >would like further info. I am interested in the feed arrangement for >a 5 band version of the quad, interaction problems, etc etc. >Any info would be most appreciated. Hey, I put up a brand-new Gem Quad last summer! I know this.. :-) First, let me say that I'm young, fit, and smart enough (to say nothing of modest :-) ), but a two-element Gem Quad was all two of us and a lawn tractor could handle. If you're cotemplating a 4-element quad, all I can say is: you'd better have a crank-down and tilting tower, or a good friend at a crane company. Getting it up is only half the (very major) battle, actually getting at the tuning stubs will be a second very major battle. FWIW, I have a fixed tower, and no crane-operator friends (and a nice lawn :-( ). The Gem Quad arrives as a kit. The documentation is dated, and sorta thin (thankfully, I got enough information from the owner before I made any mistakes!). For instance: the boom has a welded-on stub, and I got a 10' aluminum mast from Gem. I was a bit taken aback that the stub was a very loose fit inside the pipe, and thought a couple of orthogonal pinning bolts would take care of things - good thing I phoned, though, because the wobbling would fatigue and break these bolts! Turned out that I wound up cutting 4 wide slots and using a muffler clamp for a secure fit. As a kit, the two-el version was a bit time-consuming to assemble (or maybe I'm kind of slow?!). I used a 7-foot ladder to support the antenna (facing upward) as I assembled the second half. Don't know how you'd support and assemble a 4-element one. The fiberglass arms are secured to the spider stubs using stainless band clamps - seemed kind of hokey at the time, but they've stayed together during some 100 km/h winds OK this past winter. The arms are restrained fore and aft using fiberglass rods and tie-straps. First wind gust, and these came apart on me! Subsequent very-strong winds did no further damage, however. Kinda disappointing, really. I cut the wire elements "by the notes", and I dread the thought of actually trying to separate out the one band's wires to trim (I twisted and soldered them all together at the feedpoint :-( ). Basic match is OK across most bands, but a tad higher than I'd like on a couple. Front-to-back ratio adjustments are the biggest pain in the ass you'll ever run across! Get a friend to help, both of you will need handhelds or something, and keep a sense of humour and perspective - good luck! When all is said and done, you wind up with an antenna which looks like a good home-made job, not as clean/crisp as a professional antenna. My Gem Quad works fine (I'm feeding it through an Amidon 2:1 balun, trying to match 50-ohms to somewhere around 100-ohms. Seems OK. Mounting this was an exercise in ABS plumbing pipe ingenuity, though - Gem doesn't provide any way of accomplishing this, so you're on your own). Performance is fine. Turning circle is tight and small. Inertia is low (easy on rotator). Wind torque is very low. Would I do it again? NO. My buddy's 3-element Yagi may be slightly lower performance (although we've consumed much beer during attempts at comparing, and found no substantive differences), but mechanically it a far sight easier. _______________________________ |\ _,,,--,,_ ,) _______________ gpritcha@vanieee.wimsey.bc.ca /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;' Gordon Pritchard |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\ don't ever disturb ______________________________ '---''(_/--' (_/-'_____a sleeping cat! From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:02 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!oronet!uniserve!news.sol.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: hakan.ericsson@mbox3.swipnet.SE (sm3lbn) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 40 M yagis Date: 12 Feb 96 00:23:43 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 7 Sender: m-33357@mailbox.swipnet.se Message-ID: <199602111820.TAA00606@mailbox.swip.net> Reply-To: sm3lbn NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Anyone who knows how the Mosley 2el S-402 compares to the Cushcraft 2el 40-CD ? Both electrical and mechanical. Have the offer to buy the Mosley, but don't know much about it. -------------- 73 de SM3LBN From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:02 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!ub!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: pauls90212@aol.com (PaulS90212) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 440 Horizontal Ant? Date: 10 Feb 1996 01:50:24 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 3 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4fhf7g$2of@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <960208212939_316766617@emout10.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: pauls90212@aol.com (PaulS90212) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com M2 antennas has a small horizontally polorized omnidirectional antenna. 73 - N6DN From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:03 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Relay?? Date: 16 Feb 1996 07:08:23 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 19 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4g1s3n$kvk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <824406814snz@microvst.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader >In article n4lq@iglou.com "Steve Ellington" writes: > > Has anyone tried using a mercury wetted relay for an antenna changeover > switch between transmitter and receiver? I'm considering this because I > want QSK and have been looking at some 2pdt mercury relays for keying the > transmitter. They are rated for 2 amps at 500 volts but are physically > very small. The goal here is to make a very quiet, fast breakin system. > Can mercury relays handle RF? I tried some years back and they didn't work. I suspected the skin effect slowly ate away at the mercury, because the contact resistance climbed rapidly after a short period of use. I assume the current rating you specified was at dc or LF ac, and not at RF. Contacts are generally derated like crazy at RF. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:04 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.agt.net!news From: smason@agt.net (Steve Mason) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ball mount strong enough for screw driver antenna? Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:36:33 GMT Organization: AGT Ltd. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <31224003.182388385@news.agt.net> References: <4foria$qjj@usenet.pa.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clgrpx03-port-19.agt.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99d/32.182 On 13 Feb 1996 02:03:54 GMT, little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) wrote: >I have a screw driver HF antenna that I'd like to mount on >my Taurus and Grand Voyager. I puchased a Radio Shack ball Pardon my ignorance, but I've seen this mentioned a few times now, what exactly is a "screw driver" antenna? As for the ball mount, I don't know the details but there are a few manufacturers (Hustler rings a bell) who make good heavy-duty ball mounts that are much better than the RS unit. Steve VE6STV From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:05 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.tacom.army.mil!ulowell.uml.edu!jupiter.cs.uml.edu!bcharbon From: bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonneau) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Best areas of New England (especially VT) to erect large TOWER Date: 14 Feb 1996 19:36:41 GMT Organization: UMass-Lowell Computer Science Lines: 5 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <4ftdk9$5br@ulowell.uml.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: jupiter.cs.uml.edu Hi! Name here is Brad NZ1Y. I am looking to move to Vermont in the near future, a nd would like to install a large tower (perhaps 150ft high or so). Does anyon e know of the best towns that allow this size tower in VT or in New England? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks a lot! Brad NZ1Y From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:07 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bison.alfred.edu!kato.theramp.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!interramp.com!usenet From: "ir003432@interramp.com" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Best wire antenna Opinions? Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:55:03 -0500 Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link Lines: 34 Message-ID: <311D6897.4282@interramp.com> References: <4fe9jh$ema@news.rain.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.12.1.165 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) To: Allen Allen wrote: > > I was about to put up a wire antenna today > and i was wondering if there were any new > tricks out there or would a regular dipole > be my best shot, > > i have a yaesu 101ee > 300 watt transmatch > 500 feet #14 copper > plenty of scrap pvc pipe for insulators > coax, > and enough room for a full size 160m dipole > > what works good for you guys? windoms, G5RV, loops, > multielement, zepps? > the ground here is old riverbed and extreamly rocky > so a good radial system for verticals is a no go.. :( > > any suggestions would be greatly appriciated! > > tnx 73's KB6PQG allenm@rain.orgGet 100' or more of ladder line. Call Ra dio Works in Chesapeake, VA and have him send you 2-300' and have him send you a Ladder Lock center connector. When you get all that stuff, look at it and you can figure it out. Then, build a 270'-long dipole. Split it in the center and use the ladder lock to attach the ladder line. Run the ladder line to the balanced line output of the tuner and you got it. Keep the ladder line as clear of metal objects like towers, gutters, etc, as you can but don't make a fetish of it. I have been licensed since 1958. Last year I finally put up 135' dipole fed with ladder line. It runs through a hole drilled in my concrete block basement wall, upp beside my aluminum siding, and to the antenna. Loads on every band, even 160. Why didn't I do this 30 years ago?? From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:09 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet From: chuck Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.noncomm,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: Broadcasting Radio Station Database for you...... Date: 12 Feb 1996 04:04:46 GMT Organization: Orchid City Software Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4fme8u$bsf@news.flinet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb46.flinet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; U; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.shortwave:70065 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19052 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14132 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24923 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13323 rec.radio.amateur.misc:98059 rec.radio.amateur.policy:33090 rec.radio.amateur.space:6321 rec.radio.noncomm:5156 rec.radio.scanner:45512 rec.radio.swap:57465 Friend, A fully functional standalone Broadcasting Radio Station Database for IBM and compatibles with more than 4,000 Radio Station records already. This program covers stations on Longwave, Mediumwave, and Shortwave. Each record contains the Station name, Frequencies, Schedule, Languages, Country, and Continent. The program sorts in same order. What's needed to get it? Your EMail address and your Postal Mailing address for registration and future information via Post of other Radio Related Database programs. This information will be kept confidential. If you can read a document written in MS Word(extension is DOC), request the operating instructions for the Radio Station Database Program called Voyageur. You'll get an idea from reading this document of the Voyageur Database and what it does. Incidently, the program offered with this notice is valid until June 6, 1996. Hope to hear from you.. Chuck KA4PRF From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:10 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub2!ncrcae!news From: Tom Skelton Subject: C3 vs TH6 comparison? Message-ID: Sender: news@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM (news) Reply-To: Tom.Skelton@ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM (skeltt) Organization: NCR X-Newsreader: DiscussIT 2.5.1.3 for MS Windows [AT&T Software Products Division] Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:36:42 GMT Lines: 35 I have been off this newsgroup for a few months, so please forgive me if someone has already asked this. I am getting ready to plunk down some cash for a new tribander. I finished rebuilding the TH5 before we moved, but I am still not a trap fan. (HyGain's prices for replacement traps are obscene, IMHO.) I've blown them in TH3jr and TH5 antennas. The Force12 C3 looks good, the price is good, the write - up in QST was good, KC2X's write-up in NCJ was good, the C3 seems far easier to put together, and the feedback from users has been good. Heck, it was good enough for N7ML to stack 6 of them on a 200 ft tower! (Don't take me as anti-Hygain. I have TH3jr, TH5, TH6, and 203BA antennas in storage that will be put to use in some location.) HOWEVER, what I haven't seen is a side-by-side performance comparison of the C3 versus a TH5/6/7 series HyGain antenna. Anybody been there / done that??? Many thanks in advance. 73, tom WB4iUX WB4iUX@AOL.COM disclaimer: I obviously have no financial interest in Force12. My only interests are family and ham radio. Yes, in that order! ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ HUMILITY IS A CRUEL TASKMASTER. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:11 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!comp.vuw.ac.nz!usenet From: Richard Hulse Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CCD antennas..how do I scale them (dowm!) ??? Date: 13 Feb 1996 19:36:51 GMT Organization: Radio New Zealand Lines: 26 Message-ID: <4fqp8j$fnc@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz> References: <4epn4c$bei@linet02.li.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: kgill.dialup.netlink.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: bbruhns@newshost.li.net Thanks Bob... I had already built and 80 m version of the CCD which worked very well at my last place. It was folded back on itself and ran very close to a large tree and part of the roof. Unfortunately the houses next to where I now live are very close together....a CCD folded back on itself 4 times would no doubt upset the neighbours. Having just writen that I wonder if the antenna could be folded _on_top_ of itself to reduce the length? > I found this in an article by Harold Wheeler on HF antennas >designed to be mounted UNDERGROUND! Could you let me know where this was? > Some day I will buy a bunch of 1100 >pF 1000V 5% dipped micas and rebuild the thing, and try again. The problems is they are so time consuming to make! I took a week off work to make my 80m one about ten years ago. If the performance hadn't been so good I wouldn't be contemplating doing it again. Perhaps I should wait until my kids grow up a bit more and get them to help! Regards Richard Hulse ZL2AJC From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:12 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.i2020.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!news.minn.net!MinnNet From: jhill@minn.net (John Hill) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CCD antennas..how do I scale them (dowm!) ??? Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 04:59:11 GMT Organization: Minn Net Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4fue91$9mo@cobra.Minn.Net> References: <4epn4c$bei@linet02.li.net> <4fqp8j$fnc@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-43.minn.net X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 In article <4fqp8j$fnc@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz>, Richard Hulse wrote: >Thanks Bob... > >I had already built and 80 m version of the CCD which worked very well at -snip- >> Some day I will buy a bunch of 1100 >>pF 1000V 5% dipped micas and rebuild the thing, and try again. -snip- If the performance hadn't >been so good I wouldn't be contemplating doing it again. I thought I had heard of just about every kind of antenna, but this one eludes me. Could you post some reference articles from magazine info, or textbook titles on it? Thanks...John, NJ0M. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:13 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns From: bbruhns@newshost.li.net (Bob Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: CCD antennas..how do I scale them (dowm!) ??? Date: 15 Feb 1996 06:35:23 GMT Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Lines: 33 Message-ID: <4fuk7b$8jj@linet06.li.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] A few CCD articles: Harold A. Wheeler, "Useful Radiation From An Underground Antenna", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards - Department of Radio Propagation, Volume 65D, Number 1, January-February, 1961, Pg. 89. (Presented at Conference on the Propagation of ELF Radio Waves, Boulder, CO, January 26, 1960.) Harry A. Mills, W4FD, and Gene Brizendine, W4ATE, "Antenna Design: Something New!", Pg. 282 (???), 73 Magazine, October, 1978. (I think). Harry A. Mills, W4FD, and Gene Brizendine, W4ATE, "The CCD Antenna - Another Look", 73 Magazine, July, 1981, Pg. 50. Harry Longerich, W4ANL, "The CCD Antenna Revisited", 73 Magazine, May, 1982, Pg. 40. David Atkins, W6VX, "the high-performance, capacitively loaded diploe", ham radio, May 1984, Pg. 33. James E. Taylor, W2OZH, "The RASER", 73 Amateur Radio Today, September, 1992, Pg. 8. James E. Taylor, W2OZH, "The RASER Revisited", 73 Amateur Radio Today, October, 1993, Pg. 29. Also see: F. E. Terman, Radio Engineers Handbook, McGraw-Hill, New York, 1943, Pg. 773. Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, bbruhns@li.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:14 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnews.wa.com!uw-coco!uw-beaver!cornellcs!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: bobjr@ix.netcom.com(Bob Kusnirik, Jr. ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Cellular Passive Repeater Antennas Date: 12 Feb 1996 15:14:28 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4fnlgk$dmt@reader2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atc-nj1-13.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Feb 12 7:14:28 AM PST 1996 I am seeking information on Repeater Antennas for portable phones. I have seen three different types advertised and would like to know if they are worth the investment. The three types are: 1. A rear window mount that looks similar to a hard wire antenna. 2. A window clip that clips onto any door window and has a small 6" antenna on the outside of the window. 3. A suction cup mount antenna approx. 8" in length that is placed on the inside of a window and transmits through the car window. I have tried the "patch" antenna and found no improvements in reception or broadcasting. I realize that a 3 watt booster is the best way to go, but they are expensive. Are these products worth the investment or more hype than substance. Any replies will be appreciated. Bob From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:15 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.frontiernet.net!news.his.com!news.akorn.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub2!ncrcae!news From: Bob Archer N4ECO Subject: Re: Cubical Quad Antennas for HF Message-ID: Sender: news@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM (news) Reply-To: Bob.Archer@columbiaSC.ncr.com (archer) Organization: NCR GPGSC, Columbia X-Newsreader: DiscussIT 2.5.1.3 for MS Windows [AT&T Software Products Division] References: <4fsgkr$2v3@btr0x6.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:40:18 GMT Lines: 30 I had a CUBEX Tri-Band Quad that I purchased used in 1980. I used it for 10 years at 50 feet. I would still be using it had it not been for not having a place to install it when I moved. >==========Karl-Heinz Merscher,,,, 2/14/96========== > > > >Hi out there, > >is there anybody who operats with a LBA (Lightning Bolt Antennas) or a >cubical quad antenna made by CUBEX?? > >The LBA antennas are cheaper than the Cubex antennas. In the catalogues >it seems that the CUBEX antennas are better in stability. > >Any exerperiences with that antennas?? > >I'm searching for a supplier of a good cubical quad antenna ... > >Thanks in advance! > >Charlie > >DL6RDE Bob Archer N4ECO From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:16 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnews.wa.com!uw-coco!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hpg30a.csc.cuhk.hk!news.cuhk.edu.hk!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!Dortmund.Germany.EU.net!nntp.gmd.de!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!zrz.TU-Berlin.DE!cs.tu-berlin.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsserv.uni-bayreuth.de!btr0x7.hrz.Uni-Bayreuth.DE!a0378 From: a0378@btr0x7.hrz.Uni-Bayreuth.DE (Karl-Heinz Merscher,,,) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Cubical Quad Antennas for HF Date: 14 Feb 1996 11:22:03 GMT Organization: Universitaet Bayreuth Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4fsgkr$2v3@btr0x6.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: btr0x7.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de Hi out there, is there anybody who operats with a LBA (Lightning Bolt Antennas) or a cubical quad antenna made by CUBEX?? The LBA antennas are cheaper than the Cubex antennas. In the catalogues it seems that the CUBEX antennas are better in stability. Any exerperiences with that antennas?? I'm searching for a supplier of a good cubical quad antenna ... Thanks in advance! Charlie DL6RDE From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:17 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.fast.net!news From: n3itn@fast.net (Tony) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Dummy load resistor source??? Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 03:24:53 GMT Organization: FASTNET(tm) PA/NJ/DE Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4fu9ag$gsu@nn.fast.net> References: <4fbfim$fsg@caesar.ultra.net> <4ffsku$8ru@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: abe-ppp322.fast.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.misc:98096 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19087 Cecil Moore wrote: >Rob Bellville wrote: >>I need to make a bunch of low power (< 5W) dummy loads. Where can I find >>some 50 ohm 5W non-inductive resistors? Alternatively, I could use 25 and >>100 ohm ones, too. >Hi Rob, four 200 ohm 2 watt carbon resistors in parallel sounds just right. >73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) STACKPOLE is the source !!! From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:17 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.frontiernet.net!gollum.kingston.net!news4.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!news1.vancouver.istar.net!news.vancouver.istar.net!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news5.ner.bbnplanet.net!news.ner.bbnplanet.net!usenet.continental.com!usenet From: Paul Christensen Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Florida Ham Antenna Restrictions - ch125.htm (0/1) Date: 14 Feb 1996 20:27:24 GMT Organization: Continental Cablevision Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4ftgjc$jtf@usenet.continental.com> References: <199602011849.MAA05482@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> <4f7v2j$296@news.atlantic.net> <4fqpsu$143k@news.gate.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.152.167.73 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: donstone@gate.net Don: I'll be starting law school this fall. Perhaps I'll carve my niche in this area after graduating! -Paul, N9AZ From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:18 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sover.net!news.monad.net!usenet From: Chester Bowles Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: G5RV vs. 130' Dipole Date: 13 Feb 1996 19:42:16 GMT Organization: Crotched Mountain Foundation Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4fqpio$8mj@news.monad.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bowles.cmf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) For years I've used a 130' dipole fed with 450 ohm line. I use a Dentron tuner, so the antenna works great on all bands (including an occasional 160 meter contact). I've never used a G5RV, but I hear lots of good signals from folks who use them. So, all other things being equal, I'd appreciate any comments about the merits of a G5RV versus my existing 130'dipole. Should I make the switch? 73, Chet, AA1EX -- *---------------------------------------------------------------------* | CHESTER S. BOWLES | Education, rehabilitation, housing, | | Vice President | and managed care for children, | | Crotched Mountain Foundation | adolescents and adults with physical | | One Verney Drive | and developmental challenges. | | Greenfield, NH 03047 | http://www.cmf.org | | 603.547.3311 ext. 404 | bowles@cmf.org | *---------------------------------------------------------------------* From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:19 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news2.interlog.com!ra.isisnet.com!news From: Charles Thompson Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Gannett antennas Date: 12 Feb 1996 15:03:01 GMT Organization: isis, Incorporated Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4fnkr5$m8e@ra.isisnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: s3_trurong.desktop.ns.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) I'm looking for information on a gannett multi band antenna. I neen the company adress or the specs for their multi band wire antenna. It is something like a G5RV. Any help would be great. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:20 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.supernet.net!news.cais.net!news.cais.com!news From: fwhitehurst@ezdial.com (David Whitehurst) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Hazer for Rohn 25G Date: 12 Feb 1996 02:22:40 GMT Organization: Centauri War Fund, Inc. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4fm89g$4m5@news.cais.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup_31.ezdial.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 Anyone have any experience with the "Hazer" tram system ??? I was looking into putting one on my Rohn 25G tower(they have a kit built for the 25G Rohn). I'm hopping this will be the solution to climbing my tower :) . -David. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:21 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bison.alfred.edu!kato.theramp.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!interramp.com!usenet From: "ir003432@interramp.com" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help- 40 Meter Yagis Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:46:44 -0500 Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link Lines: 23 Message-ID: <311D66A4.5D64@interramp.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.12.1.165 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Ranson J. Pelt wrote: > > I want to purchase a 40 Meter shortened Yagi. Currently looking at the > Cushcraft 40-2CD and the Hygain Discover 7-2. > > Anyone out there using one of these antennas? Would appreciate any input > to help me decide which one I should go with. > > Thanks - 73 > > -- > Ranson J. Pelt > pelt@vt.edu > QST de nz4iIn a reply to your request, another reader said that his Cushcraf t 40-2CD worked great but that he recommended some survivability mods. I do not know the dates but the mods of which he speaks were in two or three issues of the NCJ (National Contest Journal, published by ARRL). If you get the NCJ, or know someone who does, have them look through the 1994 and 1995 issues; there are two or three articles on mdofiying the 40-2CD to make it tougher. Without those mods, lots of guys have problems with them in the long run. Have you considered a Telrx antenna? Theirs are manufactured for military. Don't remember address but they are in Asbury Park, NJ. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:22 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bofh.mi.org!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!night.primate.wisc.edu!relay!relay-wo!dtix.dt.navy.mil!navair2.nalda.navy.mil!avalon.chinalake.navy.mil!harwoodmac.chinalake.navy.mil!user From: harwood@sirius.chinalake.navy.mil (Bill Harwood) Subject: Re: HI-Q antenna Message-ID: Sender: usenet@avalon.chinalake.navy.mil (NAWS news admin) Organization: NAWC/WD 416000D References: <47432@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 00:23:11 GMT Lines: 48 In article <47432@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org>, 44.42.200.20@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org wrote: > I am looking for information on antennas with extremely narrow bandwidth > for use on a dual frequency packet setup. All antennas I have seen aim > for the maximum bandwidth possible. I am looking for the minimum bandwidth > possible, for a single frequency. A duplexer has been considered, but I > don't think it is a $$$ option. > > I tried a full wave loop, but the bandwidth was 4 MHz, even with magnet wire . > I'm trying to run a gateway, but rx blanking occurs, even 2 MHz away. > Ideally, I'd like to run 145.07 and 145.79 together for the APRS crowd. > What I'm aiming for is 1200 baud on 145.07 and 9600 baud on 147.57 as a > dual entry gateway into internet. > > I have worked with a loop antenna for hf operation(MFJ) which has a width > of only 30 khz. All 2m antennas I have seen are at least a few MHz on > average. The hf loop is a natural filter, and rejects all nearby signals, > even 100 khz away. The hf loop runs a Q of 50 to 500 depending on the band. > > I have considered building a scale version of the loop, but I don't know if > the capacitor is increased or decreased in value. My ignorance is showing. > > 73 de Tom S. > aa5mt@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org SInce bandwidth is a percentage of frequency and we are at 146MHz area you are not likely to get a high enough Q antenna to solve your problem. You appear to have a 720KHz spread betwen signals. That is similar to the 600KHz split for 2 Meter repeaters in amateur service. You probably do not need the full 80 to 100 db isolation needed to protect a sensitive reciever on a repeater since digital is more forgiving. You have two possible solutions. One is to get distance between your two antennas and possibly help this by using directional antennas. You will prbably still need some cavity filters (cans) to provide isolation. If you are on a single antenna you will prbably need three cans on each side (will look like the duplexor cans on a repeater). For seperate antennas one or two cans should suffice. remember what you are tradeing offf is reviever sensitivity. i.e. the less filtering the more de-sensitization you will experience. Lots of signal into the reciever from directional antennas or high power transmitters at the sending end will allow the signal to get through. The solution will be to find some cans and put them in line. It aint good news but it is the news. Good Luck From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:23 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!usenet From: tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 13 Feb 1996 22:52:38 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 5 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tboza.ch.intel.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? What tool would best be used to make the hole? WB7ASR... From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:24 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!arlut.utexas.edu!news.eden.com!usenet From: jmb@eden.com (John Bradley/KK5MH) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 02:55:35 GMT Organization: Adhesive Media, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4friof$gm8@boris.eden.com> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: net-3-008.austin.eden.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wrote: >What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? >What tool would best be used to make the hole? >WB7ASR... I used a 3/4" hole saw with a built-in pilot drill. The instructions are included with the NMO mount. I recommend using a high quality saw to avoid messing up the car. 73, John From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:25 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!netcom10!faunt From: faunt@netcom10.netcom.com (Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604) Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? In-Reply-To: Bob Wilson's message of Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:14:59 -0800 Message-ID: Sender: faunt@netcom10.netcom.com Organization: at home, in Oakland References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <3122B343.56D9@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:34:03 GMT Lines: 32 From: Bob Wilson Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:14:59 -0800 WB7ASR wrote: > > What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? > What tool would best be used to make the hole? > > WB7ASR... Tom, A 3/4" hole is the typical requirement...although other "special" bases are available...such as 3/8". A 3/4" hole saw on an electric drill has worked just fine for the dozen or so I've installed. You just have to be mindful of the headliner! Good Luck Bob Wilson WA4PUJ I'd also suggest covering the area near the hole with tape. The hot metal chips from the sawing can melt their way into the clearcoat and be unremovable. They then rust, and make a mess. 73, doug From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:26 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nrtphba6.bnr.ca!brtph500.bnr.ca!rlukas From: rlukas@bnr.ca (Bob KB9MS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 14 Feb 1996 12:31:17 GMT Organization: Ham Radio Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4fskml$312@brtph500.bnr.ca> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: brtph8db.bnr.ca Originator: rlukas@brtph8db In article <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7AS R) writes: |> What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? |> What tool would best be used to make the hole? |> |> WB7ASR... |> I use a 3/4" chassis punch to make the hole. Its nice and clean. They do mak e a hole saw but you tend to put too much pressure downward and wrinkly the roof . First make a pilot hole bigh enought for the chassis punch screw, then under the hole scrape a little of the metal so there is a good ground connection. Best antenna mount Ive ever used. Good Luck.. 73 de Bob KB9MS Raleigh -- ****************************************************************************** Bob Lukaszewski KB9MS Replies to Internet 'rlukas@bnr.ca' or 'kb9ms@nando.net' The views expressed here do not reflect the opinions of BNR or Nortel.. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:27 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.av.qnet.com!ibbs!js Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <30@ibbs.av.org> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com><3122B343.56D9@ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: js@ibbs.av.org (Jeff Stillinger) From: js@ibbs.av.org (Jeff Stillinger) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 14:30:07 GMT Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Lines: 28 In article <3122B343.56D9@ix.netcom.com>, Bob Wilson (wa4puj@ix.netcom.com) wr ites: >WB7ASR wrote: >> >> What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? >> What tool would best be used to make the hole? >> >> WB7ASR... > >Tom, > A 3/4" hole is the typical requirement...although other "special" >bases are available...such as 3/8". > > A 3/4" hole saw on an electric drill has worked just fine for the >dozen or so I've installed. You just have to be mindful of the >headliner! > >Good Luck > >Bob Wilson >WA4PUJ > Remove the headliner when doing the install. I have also found that the 3/8" hole and mounts are much easier to install. -- Jeff Stillinger From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:28 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!satisfied.apocalypse.org!news2.near.net!cronkite.xyplex.com!usenet From: Gary Thorburn Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08:50:52 -0500 Organization: Xyplex, Inc. Littleton, Massachusetts Lines: 26 Message-ID: <31248BBC.41C67EA6@xyplex.com> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4friof$gm8@boris.eden.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: gwt.xyplex.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) John Bradley/KK5MH wrote: > > tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wrote: > > >What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? > >What tool would best be used to make the hole? > > >WB7ASR... > > I used a 3/4" hole saw with a built-in pilot drill. The instructions > are included with the NMO mount. I recommend using a high quality saw > to avoid messing up the car. > > 73, > John Best tool is a "Greelee Punch", 3/4-inch size. Nice, Neat job, you just drill a pilot hole first. However, the "punch" only works if you have access to both sides of the metal you are cutting thru, for example if you can drop the dome lite and access the inside. /**** * Gary W. Thorburn KD1TE * email address: gthorburn@xyplex.com ****/ From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:29 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!louie.disney.com!root From: Jim Markle Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: I need hf wire antenna help......... Date: 13 Feb 1996 19:35:41 GMT Organization: Walt Disney Company InterNetNews site Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4fqp6d$m6t@louie.disney.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 153.7.141.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 32bit) Briefly (cw version): Can I add coils of wire to a tuner/ladderline fed dipole to increase wire lenght and thus performance on 75M without hurting 10M-40M? Not so briefly (ssb version): I have a ladder line fed flattop dipole (approx 33'/side) I'm tuning it for pretty acceptable outputs (except on 75m) with an MFJ tuner. On 75m it loads up but I know not much is actually being radiated. And I want better "real" performance on 75m. I can't add any more length to either side of the dipole without practically doubling back the wire on itself. Very small lot...... I have some open coils that are about 2" dia at 1/8" spacing. Can I add a piece of this coil to each side of the dipole and effectively increase my total wire length, even though a chunk of it is all coiled up? Would it be better to insert the coil at the feedpoint? Midpoint? Endpoint of the dipole??? Using a good tuner, will I be able to still get a good amount of signal past the feedline and up into the air? Or will the coil's inductance somehow cancel any benefit I'm hoping for and leave me with a very short, high freq resonant dipole with the coils acting as traps? Thanks very much in advance for any help, it's much appreciated. Jim Markle KB5OB/6 From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:30 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: I need hf wire antenna help......... Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 22:00:07 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <4fqp6d$m6t@louie.disney.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com X-To: Jim Markle Hi Jim, If 75m is the only band with which you are concerned, how about considering establishing a Z0-match with components that don't dissipate much power. Some simple measurements will yield the information needed. The components can be switched remotely if desired. If you're interested, email me. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:31 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!math.arizona.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!nemo.as.arizona.edu!hlester From: hlester@nemo.as.arizona.edu (Howard Lester) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: I need hf wire antenna help......... Date: 13 Feb 1996 22:47:41 GMT Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4fr4ed$1052@news.ccit.arizona.edu> References: <4fqp6d$m6t@louie.disney.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nemo.as.arizona.edu In article <4fqp6d$m6t@louie.disney.com> Jim Markle writes: > >Not so briefly (ssb version): >I have a ladder line fed flattop dipole (approx 33'/side) I'm tuning it for >pretty acceptable outputs (except on 75m) with an MFJ tuner. On 75m it >loads up but I know not much is actually being radiated. And I want better >"real" performance on 75m. I can't add any more length to either side of Jim, the following will help greatly, but still might not be great: ;-) Tie the ends of the feedline, at the transmatch end, together. Attach the tied end to the transmatch using the "random wire" configuration. Attach a suitable counterpoise (i.e. appropriate length of wire) to the transmatch's ground terminal, and you're all set to operate 75m. The counterpoise is to alleviate/eliminate RF feedback and other hazards at the transmitter; typically a 1/4 wavelength wire will do, or the use of one of those "artificial ground" boxes will also work well. When the counterpoise wire is of the correct length, the wire's end is VERY "hot", so take all precautions. Howard Lester KE7QJ hlester@as.arizona.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:32 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!nntp.inc.net!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!chilesp From: chilesp@intrepid.net (Pat Chiles) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: IDEAS FOR HAZER TYPE SYSTEM? Date: 9 Feb 1996 23:06:43 GMT Organization: Texas Networking, Inc. Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4fgk23$g6k@nntp.texas.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chilesp.intrepid.net Summary: Anyone have some good ideas or reference articles on build a hazer type system To: REC.RADIO.AMATEUR.ANTENNA X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 for a tower. One suggestion has been steel cables with water pipe riding up and down them. A construction article reference would be great. Thanks Pat, AA8NY - Chilep@intrepid.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:33 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!a3bsrv.nai.net!mgate.arrl.org!news From: Zack Lau Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Info on 2414.5 mhz Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 09:57:12 -0500 Organization: American Radio Relay League Lines: 17 Message-ID: <312349C8.5CA0@arrl.org> References: <31221D8E.7EF6@slic.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zlau.arrl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6b (Win16; I) Chris Tabor wrote: > > Hello, > I would like info on max radiation antenna configurations for 2414.5 > mhz. Can anyone help? For maximum signal strength in a particular direction at 2.4 GHz, nothing really competes with a large reflecting surface (typically a parabolic dish, though spherical approximations can also work well if properly fed). I think all the amateur moonbounce work between 2 and 10 GHz has been with parabolic dish antennas--nothing else is as practical in achieving the required gain. For a lightweight portable 12 ft dish design, see page 19-16 of the ARRL antenna book. Zack KH6CP/1 From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:34 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.slic.com!usenet From: Chris Tabor Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Info on 2414.5 mhz Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:36:14 -0500 Organization: Edwards Productions Lines: 10 Message-ID: <31221D8E.7EF6@slic.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nich_dial12.slic.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (Win95; I) Hello, I would like info on max radiation antenna configurations for 2414.5 mhz. Can anyone help? -- -C --H ---R ----I -----S ______________________________________________________________________ From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:36 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!xpat.postech.ac.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!mdisea!pilchuck!news From: tomz@premier1.net (Tom Zoch) Subject: Information on equipment sought by new Tech X-Nntp-Posting-Host: inet-gw Message-ID: Sender: news@data-io.com (Usenet news) Reply-To: zoch@data-io.com Organization: Sosiity fer spelen exalanse X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 02:20:34 GMT Lines: 50 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19106 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14183 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24986 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13362 rec.radio.amateur.misc:98126 rec.radio.amateur.policy:33110 rec.radio.amateur.space:6337 Hi, I am going to be taking my Tech tests on Saturday (2/17) and am now starting to look in to what type of radios to get. I plan to put a 2M Mobile in my truck and get a more substantial base for home. For home I'm looking into Base Multiband / Multimode Transceivers and trying to decide what will be my best bet. I was thinking of one that would cover at least 2M and perhaps 70cm. I am interested in working into Satellite and EME as well as FM and perhaps some local CW, 12V operation would be a plus but not a major requirement. I do plan on upgrading to at least General with in the next year and expanding also into some HF as well. So I would want to take that into consideration as well. possibly using Transverters get to the higher freqs for satellite and EME and going with a more basic UHF/VHF base unit. For the mobile unit I was thinking of a rather simple 2M unit for repeater and simplex FM. I live in a rather remote area in the western foothills of the Cascades so I think one of the higher output power units would be in order. I was considering picking up one of the new Radio Shack units. As far as I can tell it has most everything I am looking for at a reasonable price. From the cross talk I have seen on the net and the write up in CQ (VHF) it seems to be a good choice. I would like to take advantage of the wealth of experience of those out here on the net and get some input from you as to what you think. Suggestions on equipment to get or avoid as well as things to look for or useless features to not even consider. For me price, value and reliability are important, I have a modest but hopefully adequate amount set aside for starting up and want to use it wisely. The Base unit I'll be looking for used at up coming Ham fests so any information about current or older equipment would be helpful. I was thinking of picking up the Mobil new ( if it is in or around the same price range as the Radio Shack unit ) but am vary open to suggestions. I would also welcome comment on other accessory gear that you feel would be useful as well as thoughts on band selection (pros and cons of the diffrent amature bands ) or what ever info. you would like to pass on to a newbie like myself. I know there are lots of books and other sources around and would not mind pointers to the better source like that, but I am primarily looking for personal insights and experience. Thanks TZ Reply here or by e-mail to tomz@premier1.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:37 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!news.net99.net!premier1.premier1.net!news From: tomz@premier1.net (Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.swap,alt.radio.amateur.club.clarc,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space Subject: Information sought by new Tech Date: 16 Feb 1996 18:13:31 GMT Organization: none of the above Lines: 48 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4g2hgb$f06@premier1.premier1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dynamic-39.premier1.net Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19125 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:25002 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13372 rec.radio.swap:57676 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14200 rec.radio.amateur.misc:98147 rec.radio.amateur.policy:33120 rec.radio.amateur.space:6339 Hi, I am going to be taking my Tech tests on Saturday (2/17) and am now starting to look in to what type of radios to get. I plan to put a 2M Mobile in my truck and get a more substantial base for home. For home I'm looking into Base Multiband / Multimode Transceivers and trying to decide what will be my best bet. I was thinking of one that would cover at least 2M and perhaps 70cm. I am interested in working into Satellite and EME as well as FM and perhaps some local CW, 12V operation would be a plus but not a major requirement. I do plan on upgrading to at least General with in the next year and expanding also into some HF as well. So I would want to take that into consideration as well. possibly using Transverters get to the higher freqs for satellite and EME and going with a more basic UHF/VHF base unit. For the mobile unit I was thinking of a rather simple 2M unit for repeater and simplex FM. I live in a rather remote area in the western foothills of the Cascades so I think one of the higher output power units would be in order. I was considering picking up one of the new Radio Shack units. As far as I can tell it has most everything I am looking for at a reasonable price. >From the cross talk I have seen on the net and the write up in CQ (VHF) it seems to be a good choice. I would like to take advantage of the wealth of experience of those out here on the net and get some input from you as to what you think. Suggestions on equipment to get or avoid as well as things to look for or useless features to not even consider. For me price, value and reliability are important, I have a modest but hopefully adequate amount set aside for starting up and want to use it wisely. The Base unit I'll be looking for used at up coming Ham fests so any information about current or older equipment would be helpful. I was thinking of picking up the Mobil new ( if it is in or around the same price range as the Radio Shack unit ) but am vary open to suggestions. I would also welcome comment on other accessory gear that you feel would be useful as well ( for example band selection for Satellite and EME ), or what ever info you would like to pass on to a newbie like myself. I know there are lots of books and other sources around and would not mind pointers to the better source like that, but I am primarily looking for personal insights and experience . Reply here or by e-mail to tomz@premier1.net Thanks TZ From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:38 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: fhays@agt.NET (Franklin M. Hays VE6NU) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: IntelliRotor Date: 13 Feb 96 18:32:40 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 9 Message-ID: <199602131832.LAA08609@agt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Hi all...is there anyone out there who is using the IntelliRotor HD 1780 by Heath? I have lost my manual and need the basic setup commands. If anyone can help, please e-mail the setup commands to fhays@agt.net. Tu es 73 de Frank VE6NU (ex VE6INA) From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:39 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.dacom.co.kr!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!usenet From: rgeifman@netins.net (Richard Geifman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Inverted "V" Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:30:20 GMT Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, Iowa, USA Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4fqsdb$h0q@insosf1.netins.net> Reply-To: Rgeifman@netins.net NNTP-Posting-Host: eldr-01-04.dialup.netins.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I have a chance to put up an inverted V at a respectable height. Do they fire broadside or off the ends or omni-directional? I haven't been able to find any authority claiming one way or the other. Any opinions? Thanks. Rgeifman@netins.net KB0KRO From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:40 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Inverted "V" Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 22:12:59 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <4fqsdb$h0q@insosf1.netins.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com X-To: Richard Geifman Richard Geifman writes: >I have a chance to put up an inverted V at a respectable height. Do >they fire broadside or off the ends or omni-directional? I haven't I'm no authority but I have played around with ELNEC. Above 2 times 5/8 WL long, the radiation pattern of a horizontal antenna becomes multi-lobed with 4 major lobes. The same thing happens with inv-Vs with some of the power in the 4 major lobes having a very steep take off angle which may be good for DX to the moon. In other words, inv-Vs don't work nearly as well as horizontal antennas when the es 5/8 WL long. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:40 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx03-06 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Inverted "V" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 09:47:57 GMT Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4fsb2s$3pt@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4fqsdb$h0q@insosf1.netins.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx03-06.teleport.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 In article <4fqsdb$h0q@insosf1.netins.net>, rgeifman@netins.net (Richard Geifman) wrote: >I have a chance to put up an inverted V at a respectable height. Do >they fire broadside or off the ends or omni-directional? I haven't >been able to find any authority claiming one way or the other. Any >opinions? > >Thanks. >Rgeifman@netins.net >KB0KRO The radiation is stronger broadside, although they radiate more off the ends than a dipole. Expect roughly an 8 dB side-to end ratio. (This is from about 1-1/2 to 3 "S-Units" depending on what kind of rig you have, what band you're on, and where on the S-meter scale you're measuring.) 73, Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:41 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!Dortmund.Germany.EU.net!news.mch.sni.de!horus.mch.sni.de!news From: frits.jensen@mch.sni.de (Frits Jensen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Inverted L for 160M Date: 14 Feb 1996 14:50:13 GMT Organization: SNI Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4fssr5$oap@horus.mch.sni.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: potd1231.mch.sni.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7 Dear OMs I am planning to put up an inverted L for 160. How about putting it up parallel to a 80M full size vertical and use the same radial net, plus adding some 120 ft radiall. say 10 or so? How long shall the L be cut, given the vertical part is 65 ft? I will probably need a capacitor in the feedpoint? - Is it clever to connect my 500 ft of chickenwire fence to the groundplane? Look forward to get a lot of answers to these Qs. 73 Frits DL4MHU in Munich From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:42 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: J-Pole antenna Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 21:28:35 GMT Organization: Inlink Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4fqv5j$qr6@news1.inlink.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip133.inlink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 xcitor@radix.NET (xcitor) wrote: >I am planning on building a J-Pole antenna and wondered if anyone can point >me to a WWW page or ftp site where I can find plans for this and various >other antennas. >TIA Check out my web page http://www.inlink.com/~raiar for J-Pole, Stacked-J's and Mirror-Image J's plus K-Factor charts. Page also includes plans for the Copper Cactus single or multi-band J-Poles. TTUL Gary - KG0ZP From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:43 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!guardian.up.edu!gateway.sequent.com!news.orst.edu!engr.orst.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!psgrain!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tuegate.tue.nl!news.IAEhv.nl!pm2d14.IAEhv.nl!pac From: pac@iaehv.nl (pac) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: logaritmic period antenna Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 14:13:06 Organization: Stichting Internet Access Eindhoven Lines: 5 Distribution: all Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: pm2d14.iaehv.nl Keywords: logaritmic X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Hello, who can help me for detailed description or formulas to build an Logaritmic period antenna to measure EM immunity between 30Mhz-1Ghz ? TNX in advance from Hans de Pa3gpw, please send e-mail to hans@eela.nl best 73's From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:44 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!fish.pond.com!kd3bj!jolt.pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news.exodus.net!imci4!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: pauls90212@aol.com (PaulS90212) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Loop Skywire Date: 11 Feb 1996 17:14:58 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 4 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4flpp2$e8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <19960211.133448.57@southlin.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: pauls90212@aol.com (PaulS90212) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I use to use an 80 meter horizontal loop at a low elevation. Best antenna I ever had at my house. ('Course I haven't had an hf beam) - Paul, N6DN From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:45 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!interactive.net!winternet.com!visi.com!news2.mr.net!mr.net!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!southlin.demon.co.uk!graham From: graham@southlin.demon.co.uk (Graham Seale) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Loop Skywire Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 13:34:48 GMT Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <19960211.133448.57@southlin.demon.co.uk> References: <4fjafg$b7k@blackice.winternet.com> Reply-To: graham@southlin.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: southlin.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: southlin.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Archimedes TTFN Version 0.36 In message <4fjafg$b7k@blackice.winternet.com> sholisky wrote: > I've had a few winters of using a full size horz.80 meter loop. My > results at 30 feet ( in the clear ) are very positive. Coax & balun or > 450 ohm line both work well. As for results some of the strongest > signals I have ever heard ! Great choice for qrp work... > > 73's Scott WB0ATR > > *Sigh* There's just no logic nor even poetic justice in it. I put up a tree mounted strut with pulleys for a friend. It was intended to be the high anchor for a cage vertical. Before we get the vertical together he hooks up an indifferent 80m loop out of thin old wire draped around his yard on 7m sticks and ending on the high strut. Then he starts working DX in enviable fashion. We still haven't got around to the vertical - he's having too much fun! Graham G4WNT -- Graham Seale From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:46 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!sun!oucsboss!gw2.att.com!gw1.att.com!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!iafrica.com!diakonos!rusty From: rusty@diakonos.iafrica.com (Rusty Lotter) Date: 12 Feb 96 19:53:15 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Loop Skywire Message-ID: X-FTN-To: trevor.holmes @ diakonos.iaccess.za Organization: Diakonos BBS Lines: 52 Hi Trevor, How are things going? This antenna for all bands sounds great! -=> Quoting UUCP to All <=- UU> @MSGID: mid__DMJApo.K5o@iglou.com 29b80001 UU> From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) UU> Subject: Re: Loop Skywire UU> Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) UU> I've been using my loop skywire for 5 years now. Its cut for 160 and UU> up 60ft. Does a great job. I feed it with a 4:1 balun and RG8x. SWRs UU> are low on 80-10 except WARC which are only 3:1 there. 160 requires UU> some tuning because mine resonates at 1750kc in order to make the UU> multiples come out in the cw sections of the upper bands. I tried UU> feeding it with coax like the author suggested but that requires UU> constant use of a tuner if you have a SS rig plus I was plagued with UU> RF problems on the rig. I recommend one of the new 4:1 current baluns UU> made from 200 ferrite beads on two strands of RG62 teflon coax. Don't UU> expect miracles if you only put it up 15ft or something though. Thats UU> a buch of hog-wash. Mine is omnidirectional on all bands or at least UU> the lobes overlap enough that I can't tell anything. Very low angle UU> radiation will occure on bands above 40 meters with the 160m loop. UU> Typical for most any antenna anyway. Lightning doesn't bother it much UU> since its at dc ground potential at all times, a geat feature! UU> cowanr@isma8.monmouth.army.mil wrote: UU> : Hi Group UU> : Is there anyone out there that uses or has used this antenna? UU> : How does it compare to a dipole on 4 MHz? UU> : 73, Roland UU> : AAR2AA/WF4P UU> -- UU> Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky UU> -!- UU> ! Origin: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) (8:79/1) ... JUNK: Stuff we throw away. STUFF: Junk we keep. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.1 -- |FMLYNET: Rusty Lotter 8:79/0 |Internet: rusty@diakonos.iafrica.com | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. | FMLYNET SA <> INTERNET GATEWAY at Diakonos BBS From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:47 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!ra.nrl.navy.mil!usenet From: David Drumheller Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Low profile, 2-meter antenna Date: 12 Feb 1996 12:34:21 GMT Organization: Naval Research Laboratory Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4fnc4d$kuh@ra.nrl.navy.mil> References: <4fk658$pk2@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> <4fl96h$4km@news.ios.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: claudette.nrl.navy.mil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) X-URL: news:4fl96h$4km@news.ios.com Just some unsolicited advice to those looking for a good low-profile, 2-meter antenna... My brother and sister-in-law (N3UMY and N3SYE) wanted to put their 2-meter radio in the dining room of their house, but needed to use a low-profile antenna. The highest spot in the dining room is on the top of two free-standing bookshelves, and has about fourteen inches of clearance from the ceiling. We constructed an antenna using a metal baking pan, a plastic coated coat hanger, and a female, chassis mount PL-259 connector. The baking pan is approximately twelve by fourteen inches. A hole for the connector was drilled in the center of the pan. The wire coat hanger was unwrapped, and straightened by rolling it between a flat surface and a piece of scrap wood. A twenty inch piece of the coat hangar was used for the vertical radiator which was soldered to the connector. The radiator is unoticeble because of the white coating. The finished antenna was place on top of the bookshelf, but because there is only fourteen inches of clearance, the last 6 inches of the antenna was bent horizontally. The antenna was tuned by progressively cutting back the tip of the antenna until we obtained an acceptable match. The highest SWR was 2:1 at the low end of the band. At this ratio only eleven percent of the power is reflected, so it's an acceptable match. I'm sure a better match could be obtained if the radiator was vertical, and was place away form a wall with an aluminum siding exterior. -Dave -- David Drumheller, KA3QBQ phone: (202) 767-3524 Acoustics Division, Code 7140 fax: (202) 404-7732 Naval Research Laboratory Washington, DC 20375-5350 e-mail: drumhell@claudette.nrl.navy.mil From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:49 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!primus.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!news.uh.edu!lurch.sccsi.com!news.sccsi.com!tattoo.sccsi.com!nuchat!News.MO.NET!usenet From: aa0yt@mo.net (Colin Wright) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: M2 6 meter halo Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 13:10:55 GMT Organization: -=MO.NET=- MVP-Net, Inc's Missouri Operations Lines: 13 Message-ID: <30e14f27.226455@news.mo.net> References: <4b467v$hot@madeline.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm3x21.dialip.mo.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99d/16.182 I just finished working through the pileups with my new IC-706 and M2 6m SQLoop and was VERY impressed. It's not the same as working with a beam, but it certainly is a nice antenna for small/no space situations. I was only running 90w into it (the antenna was mounted on my balcony), and had a ball. I *highly* recommend it! The only complaint I could possibly have is with the bandwidth; it is not possible to work SSB (around 50.125) and switch to FM (52.525) with a decent SWR reading. I should probably have a vertically polarized antenna for FM work anyway! Colin, AA0YT http://walden.mo.net/~aa0yt From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:49 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.uwa.edu.au!classic.iinet.com.au!hades.omen.com.au!news From: worf@omen.com.au (Klingon Empire) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: need : a Yagi Antenna design program for 477 Mhz (pictorial type) Date: 14 Feb 1996 12:16:03 GMT Organization: Omen Computer Services, Perth, Western Australia Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4fsjq3$4pd@hades.omen.com.au> Reply-To: worf@omen.com.au NNTP-Posting-Host: worf.omen.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 Greetings, I am in desperate need of a Yagi antenna design program for the frequency of 477 Mhz preferably between 8 to 23 elements and folded dipole fed. If you have any info please Email me.... thankyou for taking the time to read this message... regards worf@omen.com.au From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!usenet From: crawford@uniserve.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Need Handheld Doppler Ant Circuit Date: 16 Feb 1996 00:21:13 GMT Organization: UNIServe Online Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4g0ilp$dsj@atlas.uniserve.com> Reply-To: crawford@uniserve.com NNTP-Posting-Host: abb0229.tvs.net X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 Hello: It never fails, you keep a magazine for years and one day decide you should toss it out. Within seconds of the garbage man taking it away, you NEED an article from it!!! I'm looking for an article on building a handheld D.F. antenna with a small doppler circuit on the handle. This particular one looked like a bow tie antenna on a short handle with a 9vdc battery and PCB doppler circuit attached. I can't remeber which mag it was in, but it was a few years old. If you have the article or a similar circuit, can you PLEASE contact me and I'll pay for costs to get a copy. If you wish, you could fax it to me, call my voice phone number and I'll arrange for the fax to be collect. Steve Crawford, VE7IIF Ph: (604) 826-6295 Fax: (604) 826-4930 PGP Fingerprint: 31 CD 7E DA 1B E3 8A 14 E2 9B 0D D8 C5 27 23 38 Finger: crawford@uniserve.com for PGP Public Key Steve Crawford PGP Fingerprint: 31 CD 7E DA 1B E3 8A 14 E2 9B 0D D8 C5 27 23 38 Finger: crawford@uniserve.com for PGP Public Key From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!thunder.mgl.ca!granite.sentex.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-Center Fed (OCF) Dipole?? Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 20:51:43 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <199602012003.PAA08421@franklin-fddi.cris.com> <4f2uad$174m@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com X-To: Mark Pettigrew Mark Pettigrew writes: >Do you have a copy of the relevant bits from the app note, or more details of the >source? Hi Mark, I think Antennas West still sells the application not. It is worth the $7.50 price IMO. Antennas West, Box 50062-C, Provo, UT 84605, (800)926-7373 Of particular interest are the radiation patterns for all bands 75m-10m. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:52 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet From: otterson@mindspring.com (Jeff Otterson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Opinions on 6/2 or 6/2/.7Ant Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 00:12:25 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4frakc$5jp@firebrick.mindspring.com> References: <4fq31p$68k@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> Reply-To: otterson@mindspring.com NNTP-Posting-Host: otterson.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 lstolz@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Lynn Stolz) wrote: >I need some guidance on what you are using for 6/2 meters FM. The Larson NMO-150 will load up on 6 and 2 meters. The pattern's not the best on 6 though.... Jeff Otterson ------------- otterson@mindspring.com Maker and user of tools PGP key available at http://www.mindspring.com/~otterson/pgp.htm From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:53 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!news From: Paul Moller Subject: Re: Opinions on 6/2 or 6/2/.7Ant Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: MOTOROLA Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:55:50 -0600 Message-ID: <31225A66.773B@csg.mot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4fq31p$68k@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account) Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.188.36.8 Lines: 31 Lynn Stolz wrote: > > I need some guidance on what you are using for 6/2 meters FM. > > Comet makes a GP-15, Diamond makes a V-2000. There may be others, like > a new MFJ 1764 dual bander. Opinions? > > Thanks, > Lynn > -- > Lynn Stolz N8AJ --lstolz@freenet.columbus.oh.us Dual band and Tri band antennas are almost always a compromise! When you make a longer than 1/2 wave vertical antenna, say stacked half waves to give some gain, you have to watch the phase angles very carefully in order to get the magnitudes to add in the horizontal plane. It is EASY to get the phase wrong and get a butterfly pattern sending much of your energy into space. The demands of multiband operation cause the designer to either overlook such issues, or to make a very complicated antenna. My advise is: 1) Choose a multiband antenna based on someone who has simulated the model in question and can verify the design. (I can speak to 2m/70cm thru the glass antennas only) Looking at the antenna in the store is only a guess!, or 2) Choose one which does not used stacked elements and only uses a "fore-shortened" element on the lowest freq. This may be the choice for a 6m mobile antenna. Paul_Moller@csg.mot.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:54 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!not-for-mail From: lstolz@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Lynn Stolz) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Opinions on 6/2 or 6/2/.7Ant Date: 13 Feb 1996 08:17:45 -0500 Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4fq31p$68k@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I need some guidance on what you are using for 6/2 meters FM. Comet makes a GP-15, Diamond makes a V-2000. There may be others, like a new MFJ 1764 dual bander. Opinions? Thanks, Lynn -- Lynn Stolz N8AJ --lstolz@freenet.columbus.oh.us From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:55 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!news.mind.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: st90004@jaguar1.USouthal.EDU (Craig A. Warnol (KB5UEJ)) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Phasing Two Quagi's on 446.1 Date: 15 Feb 96 21:32:19 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 16 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu How would I go about making an array with two 8 element quagis on 446.1? I have two of them and would like to put both of them up. Is the proper way of doing this to use 1/4 wave 75 ohm coax to one antenna and a 3/4 wave 75 ohm coax to the second, and have 1 wavelength separation at the feedpoint. They are going to be vertical polarized so I know the feed should be in the center of the vertical side of the drive element. Also what about a balun. The author in the ARRL antenna handbook states any balun he added only introduced problems. Can anyone give me any advise??? 73 de Craig (KB5UEJ) st90004@jaguar1.usouthal.edu --- I-net E-mail kb5uej@maf.wa4wbi.ampr.org --- AMPRnet E-mail KB5UEJ@WA4WBI.#MOBAL.AL.USA.NOAM --- packet E-mail From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:56 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.channel1.com!wizard.pn.com!sundog.tiac.net!shore!news From: jjmartin@shore.net (JJ Martin) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 08:52:46 GMT Organization: WK1V Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4frtbm$ad4@shore.shore.net> References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <1996Feb12.225254.29664@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: jjmartin@shore.net NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-7-20.shore.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Cecil Moore wrote to Gary Coffman:: Some stuff deleted by me... >... My previous configuration is what a lot of "experts" >recommend. 102 ft dipole fed with 300 ohm ladder-line into a 4:1 >balun into an antenna tuner. For all of the hams who are using >that configuration, there is a much better way to go. Okay...I have a 102' dipole up 45' high in the back yard. Fed with 450 Ohm ladder line, about 50' of it, to a 4:1 balun then a run of about 40' of RG8X to an MFJ-941C tuner (don't knock it). If it works fairly on all HF amateur bands, save 160 - and I can get it to do that too without melting too much of the plastic -what's left of it anyway - around the torriodal balun - does that mean I'm better off changing it? jjm :) From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:58 1996 Date: 12 Feb 1996 11:28:08 EDT Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!istar.net!infoshare!whome!gts!feline!humnet.humberc.on.ca!hduff Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: hduff@humnet.humberc.on.ca (Hugh Duff) Message-ID: <824142491601@lss.humnet.humberc.on.ca> Organization: HumberNet LSS, Humber College, Canada References: Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Lines: 64 > Garry Foster writes: > > >Well I guess I need to reread this article as I thought it was > >"supposed" to be a full spectrum(hf) tunner. In other words > >functionally equal to the SGC, Icom and Kenwood tuner. Why would it > > I'm thinking if someone goes to that much trouble to build an auto > tuner that matches no better than a commercial unit, why bother? > If you match your auto-tuner design to your antenna, it will accomplish > perfect matching as opposed to "full-spectrum" matching, be lower loss > on the average, and require half the components. Thus my original question. > > One of the advantages to an auto-tuner is that it can be located anywhere > in the system. It seems ridiculous not to locate it at an optimum position. > > 73, Cecil, KG7BK Re: AT-11 This IS a "full spectrum" HF tuner. It will bring an out-of-tune antenna for a particular band back to 50 ohms for the radio to 'see'. Where do you come up with the idea that it is an "8 band" tuner only ? It is essentially equivalent to an ICOM or KENWOOD tuner (not familiar with the SGC model) from a functional point of view. It may not be any better but is sure is a lot cheaper. Have you priced a commercial autotuner lately ? The difference between the AT-11 and say a Kenwood model is that it uses discrete caps and coils whose values can be combined to make up for 256X256X2 combinations in a stepped switched method whereas most of the commercial units use stepped coils (or one big tapped coil) and variable capacitors that are controled by motors and servo loop circuitry. They may be configured as PI networks instead of the simpler L but in most cases the the L config. will do the trick. The tradeoff of using the switched method with 17 relays versus the linear variable cap method is that the latter requires motor linkages and mounting plates that are more difficult to fabricate for most Hams who don't have access to a machine or metal fab. shop. Then you get into the requirement of a standardized enclosure if you want to offer descriptions of the motor mounting details. And you have to offer a source for standardized motors which can be relatively 'not cheap'. Not to mention more difficult circuitry for the servo loop circuit. Just as a matter of interest, there have been commercially made tuner that use similar circuitry to the AT-11 I propose that the AT-11 circuit is much more easily reproduceable than the linear variable cap method. The switched method with its 131072 various combinations for all intents and purposes offers "linear-like" tuning resolution with a much simpler construction. There really aren't that many components involved. You tell me which method you'd prefer to tackle ? I welcome the AT-11 article from a technical interest as well as an economically competitive perspective. 73 de Hugh Duff VA3TO Toronto --- þ NFX v1.3 [000] From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:36:59 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!not-for-mail From: muphaus@cris.com (Marv Uphaus) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 14 Feb 1996 02:07:42 -0500 Organization: Not Organized Lines: 13 Sender: Muphaus@galileo.cris.com Message-ID: References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> Reply-To: muphaus@cris.com NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.cris.com On Sat, 10 Feb 96 19:46:31 -0500 Cecil Moore wrote: >I'm thinking if someone goes to that much trouble to build an auto >tuner that matches no better than a commercial unit, why bother? Check the prices of SGC and ICOM auto-tuners... This one is obviously a compromise that errors on the side of low price... I think that the design is excellent... If I didn't already have an ICOM AH2 I'd buy a kit... Marv... ----------------------------------------------------------- Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --Bertrand Russell From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:00 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 21:32:57 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4fokfv$poa@usenet.pa.dec.com> <4fq8u4$1a9@usenet.pa.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com X-To: Todd Little Todd Little writes: >I'm missing something. At the end of the ladder line, you said >above the impedance of the antenna and feedline on 75m was 120+j1000. >Where is 300-j1500 coming from? The inductors are trying to do what? Sorry for the typo. The impedance in (1) should have been 120-j1000. Back up the line a bit at 300-j1500 is where I put the series toroids which neutralized the -j1500 ohms and caused 100% re-reflection resulting in an SWR of 1:1 on the 300 ohm ladder-line and a 300 ohm resistive load for my 4:1 balun. >Also, is the tuner in the loop in this picture to at least see what >SWR the transmitter is seeing? The transmitter sees a 50 ohm SWR of less than 1.3:1 in either case. >I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out where the >power is going. Either something must be getting hot, or you I do plan to track it down. I suspect the balun, which is 20 ft. from the tuner is getting hot. I could probably track it down fast if I threw the amp on there. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:01 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 21:52:36 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <824142491601@lss.humnet.humberc.on.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com X-To: Hugh Duff Hugh Duff writes: >Where do you come up with the idea that it is an "8 band" tuner only ? Last time I checked, there were only 8 HF amateur bands between 3 and 30 MHz. IMO, it should take no more than 8 relays to tune 8 bands. My all-band auto tuner uses 6 relays, 3 toroids, and one motor-driven air variable cap for all eight bands. How does the auto-tuner like 1+j1000 ohms or 2000-j3500 ohms? I'll bet not very much. >You tell me which method you'd prefer to tackle ? >I welcome the AT-11 article from a technical interest as well as >an economically competitive perspective. For sure ones hands are tied for mobile installations. The logical place for an auto tuner is at the base of the mobile antenna since coax is required. The possibilities for fixed antennas are almost unlimited. Tuners in ladder- line systems should go in the ladder-line for maximum . How does one use the AT-11 with ladder- line? 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:02 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.comm.net!imci3!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!news From: burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com (Bruce Burke Redi) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 14 Feb 1996 12:34:26 GMT Organization: Motorola RPG I.C. Technology Center Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4fsksi$noq@brokaw.comm.mot.com> References: <1996Feb12.225254.29664@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com NNTP-Posting-Host: md20.comm.mot.com In article 29664@ke4zv.atl.ga.us, gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) writes: }In article Cecil Moore writes: }>Gary Coffman writes: }> }>Based on the signal strength measurements from my antenna system, the }>customized tuner performs up to 2 'S' units better than my MFJ-949. That }>seems downright useful to me. } }12 db? Hmmm, that means that if you're transmitting with 100 watts }the tuner is dissipating 93.75 watts. Must get pretty hot. I'd }suggest the tuner is broken. } }Gary Hold it Gary, That 6dB/S-Unit is a standard not very well followed by amateur manufaturers. The only real way to be sure is to connect a signal generator and measure it. The last manufacturer that I know actually followed the 6dB/S-Unit was Signal-One. 73, Bruce From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:03 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!egsner!convex!newshost.convex.com!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!shore!news3.near.net!monk.proteon.com!news From: dts@peanut.senie.com (Daniel Senie) Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Message-ID: <4fl43k$e19@peanut.senie.com> Lines: 33 Sender: news@proteon.com Nntp-Posting-Host: peanut.senie.com Organization: Daniel Senie Consulting References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 16:05:08 GMT In article , Cecil Moore wrote: >Garry Foster writes: > >>Well I guess I need to reread this article as I thought it was >>"supposed" to be a full spectrum(hf) tunner. In other words >>functionally equal to the SGC, Icom and Kenwood tuner. Why would it > >I'm thinking if someone goes to that much trouble to build an auto >tuner that matches no better than a commercial unit, why bother? >If you match your auto-tuner design to your antenna, it will accomplish >perfect matching as opposed to "full-spectrum" matching, be lower loss >on the average, and require half the components. Thus my original question. > >One of the advantages to an auto-tuner is that it can be located anywhere >in the system. It seems ridiculous not to locate it at an optimum position. I guess one argument would be that I'd have to build a half dozen different auto tuners, then, one for each of my antennas. I presently use the auto tuner in my FT990 with an A3S beam (which is not 1:1 across the entire 3 bands), a G5RV, a 160 meter inverted L, an R7, etc. Practicality dictates a tuner that's somewhere centralized. This similarly argues against feeding some of the antennas with ladder line, as I'd have to switch the function of a manual tuner from one to the other of these antenna types (not all tuners have antenna switches built in, either). Dan -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie Internet: dan@senie.com, Daniel Senie Consulting n1jeb@senie.com http://www.senie.com Packet Radio: N1JEB@KA1SRD.MA From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:04 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx03-06 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 09:38:49 GMT Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4fsaho$3pt@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4fokfv$poa@usenet.pa.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx03-06.teleport.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 In article <4fokfv$poa@usenet.pa.dec.com>, little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) wrote: >. . . >Even with a generous S meter, 2 S units >should be at least 8 dB. . . Don't count on it! My ICOM 730 S-meter is 7.1 dB from S7 to S9 but only 2.9 from S2 to S4 (preamp out, 40 meter band). 2.9 is a far cry from 8. So now we have a couple of data points for how much an "S-Unit" is. 2.9? 8? 12 dB? What would you like it to be? Sorry, Cecil, the statement that one tuner is "two S-units better" than the other is seriously lacking in information content. Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:05 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bga.com!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!news.radio.org!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Message-ID: <1996Feb12.225254.29664@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Organization: Destructive Testing Systems References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 22:52:54 GMT Lines: 23 In article Cecil Moore writes: >Gary Coffman writes: > >>might be cheaper? You could build tuning networks into each antenna >>you use, or you could use an autotuner to handle matching the various >>antennas to the radio. The former case isn't as flexible or generically >>useful as the latter. > >Based on the signal strength measurements from my antenna system, the >customized tuner performs up to 2 'S' units better than my MFJ-949. That >seems downright useful to me. 12 db? Hmmm, that means that if you're transmitting with 100 watts the tuner is dissipating 93.75 watts. Must get pretty hot. I'd suggest the tuner is broken. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:06 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 14 Feb 1996 08:37:06 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 16 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4fsoi2$slr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article , Cecil Moore writes: >Hi again, Gary. I don't know how many dB in an 'S' unit on N5AQM's >receiver. Could be 4. Not all the loss is occuring in the tuner. >The balun sees 120+j1000 ohms on 75m and I suspect most of the >loss is there. Could be two dB also Ceil. Why does does "six" keep coming back? Someone please drive a stake through it's heart! Using six dB as an "S" unit is about like a surveyor using a "stones throw" on a land map. As I said in the amplifier thread, people commonly tell me my 1500 watt PA picks up 20 dB over a 90 watt exciter! 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:07 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: ka9nyn@ix.netcom.com(David R. Mohr ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 17 Feb 1996 03:50:00 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 47 Message-ID: <4g3j98$83i@cloner3.netcom.com> References: <5JHKy4Y.cecilmoore@delphi.com> <4g247m$o92@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-roc-il1-10.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Feb 16 7:50:00 PM PST 1996 In Cecil Moore writes: > >W8JI Tom writes: > >>What distance was he from you? How "sanitary" was his installation? If the > >He's about 15 miles away. His wife is a good housekeeper. > >>The best way to do the test is by measuring the differential current and >>common mode in the feedline!!!! Then there would be no guessing!l > >Dang, you mean I have to do some work? > >>I expect things got a tiny bit better. The tuner probably lost 1/2 dB if >>it was tuned at an extreme of Q (much more L, much less C than needed) and >>the balun perhaps another fraction of a dB. I hope you use the more >>efficient 1:1 configuration in the tuner, and not the 4:1. > >It was not simply a perception. Things got appreciably better. I have avoided >75m in the past because most gave me poor signal reports. Think about it - >the 4:1 balun sees about 5k ohms. It's got 7 turns on it. That just ain't >gonna work. I have no idea what the balun was doing but I can guarantee that >it was not efficiently converting 5k ohms to 1250 ohms AND the tuner >efficientll(I hate this editor) efficiently converting 1250 ohms to 50 ohms at >the same time. > >What does a 4:1 balun do with 5k ohms? What does a tuner do with 1250 ohms? I >don't know but whatever it is, it ain't worth ritin' home 'bout. > >73, Cecil, KG7Bk, OOTC Ok, guys, if you don't like the design/layout/theory of operation of this particular tuner, don't buy the kit or build the thing. Don't you think you've beaten this thing to death already?? 73 Dave. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:08 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,fm.announce Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nexusprime.org!not-for-mail From: jbranard@nexusprime.org Subject: request for help building simple AM antenna, and maybe FM? Message-ID: <2e7cc$102411.175@news.nexusprime.org> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 21:31:49 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Lines: 12 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19141 fm.announce:19 Pardon my low tech interruption but can anyone tell me how to build an AM antenna to hookup to a standard stereo receiver? Is it better to just buy a powered AM/FM antenna? What is the best brand of indoor FM antenna on the market for under $75 (the dipole just isn't cutting it any more)? I'm surrounded by my neighbor's receiver's, sat dishes, microwave TV, elect. wires, etc. Any help is appreciated Thanks for your time jbranard@nexusprime.org From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:09 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bison.alfred.edu!kato.theramp.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!interramp.com!usenet From: "ir003432@interramp.com" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Requesting help with a 6-section Rohn tower. Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:50:41 -0500 Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link Lines: 22 Message-ID: <311D6791.199D@interramp.com> References: <4fdsin$8l4@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.12.1.165 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) To: Riza Akturan Riza Akturan wrote: > > We are trying to re-erect a (>25-year old?) 6-section Rohn tower. > Each section is 20 feet long and the 6 pieces > fit into each other. There is a winch to crank > up the tower, but all information on how to > rig the steel cable to accomplish this is lost. > If you have such a tower, would you mind getting > us the rigging instructions? > > Please reply to this e-mail address, > Riza_Akturan@mail.utexas.edu > > Thanks!Stop right there!!! Now, I recognize you folks are at U of Texas and probably operatingon a budget. But, what's the price of your life? the ability to walk? a couple of arms and legs? Towers are not to play with and a 25-yr-old Rohn is a deathtrap. Contact Rohn directly. Look in QST. They have an ad in each issue. Call them, write them, but stay off that tower until you hear from them. You can screw around with high voltage and such, but don't mess with a tower. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:10 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!primus.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!ra.cgd.ucar.edu!tomas From: tomas@ra.cgd.ucar.edu (Bob Tomas) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: short wave antenna reference sought Date: 9 Feb 1996 14:03:41 GMT Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4ffk7t$nm5@ncar.ucar.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.cgd.ucar.edu Hello all, I am searching for a reference containing plans/advice on the construction of antennas for s/w radio listening. Thanks, Bob n7nd From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:11 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!intac!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!ub!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!monster.cibola.net!buffalo.utep.edu!cs.utep.edu!rgfn.epcc.edu!ad118 From: ad118@rgfn.epcc.edu (Roy A Griffin) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Slide Rule Wanted Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:56:14 GMT Organization: The Rio Grande Free-Net, El Paso Community College, El Paso, TX Message-ID: <1996Feb13.185614.22597@rgfn.epcc.edu> X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 9 Wanted: K & E Decilon slide rule. Either long or short version. Instruction book for above. I was forced to sell mine to finish college in the 60's and I still miss it. -- Roy Griffin From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:12 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!noc.nyx.net!nyx.cs.du.edu!not-for-mail From: tkell@nyx.cs.du.edu (ted kell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Slide Rule Wanted Date: 14 Feb 1996 12:55:12 -0700 Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4ften0$jb1@nyx.cs.du.edu> References: <1996Feb13.185614.22597@rgfn.epcc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx.nyx.net Well, I have a K&E LOg-Log Decitrig that I got in highschool in the late 50's, and no you can't have it. :) I would like to get one of those demonstator jobs, the ones that hung over the blackboard and were about 10 feet long. I still drag my rule out now and then, much to the kids amazement. They cannot even begin to understand how I get answers out of it. Ted In article <1996Feb13.185614.22597@rgfn.epcc.edu>, Roy A Griffin wrote: > >Wanted: >K & E Decilon slide rule. Either long or short version. >Instruction book for above. >I was forced to sell mine to finish college in the 60's >and I still miss it. > >-- >Roy Griffin From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:13 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!ctrask From: Christopher Trask Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Slide Rule Wanted Date: 15 Feb 1996 07:32:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet (602)395-1010 Lines: 31 Sender: root@primenet.com Message-ID: <4fvg51$rhr@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> References: <1996Feb13.185614.22597@rgfn.epcc.edu> <4ften0$jb1@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Posted-By: ctrask@usr5.primenet.com In article <1996Feb13.185614.22597@rgfn.epcc.edu>, Roy A Griffin wrote: > > Wanted: > K & E Decilon slide rule. Either long or short version. > Instruction book for above. > I was forced to sell mine to finish college in the 60's > and I still miss it. > >-- > Roy Griffin I have found numerous K & E and Post instruction books in used books stores, ham fests, and the VNSA book sale here in Phoenix. And no, sorry to say, I won't part with them, unless I can find dup- licates. Myself, I would like to find one of the Post circular slide rules. They were about 10" in diameter, and I've only ever seen one of them, a long time ago. -- Regards, Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris Trask / N7ZWY Circuit Design for the RF Impaired ATG Design Services __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ ctrask@primenet.com _~_ /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / (@ @) / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / ----------------------ooO~(_)~Ooo--------------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:14 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: Steven B Reed Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Small antenna matching Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 04:35:51 -0500 Organization: Netcom Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3122FE77.E5@ix.netcom.com> References: <4f0g3i$ke4@tandem.CAM.ORG> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-day-oh1-01.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Feb 15 1:38:11 AM PST 1996 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (Win95; I) > > In article <4f0g3i$ke4@tandem.CAM.ORG>, Denis Lachapelle > wrote: > > > I am developping a portable RF transmitter working around 180Mhz, > > the all RF circuit is holded in a single IC, and it's work fine. > > But ..., we can't figure out how to match the antenna, which is a > > simple piece of wire of about 7". > > > > As soon as we put the antenna the output circuit lose all it's > > gain, and the harmonics and noise take over the desired signal. I > > guess the problem is that the output circuit tank is changing > > it's frequency of resonnance when we place the antenna. > > > > We need more info on the small antenna to fixe-up our problem, > > can somebody suggest where to find this info, like a textbook or > > any other technical document? > > > > Thank you very much for your help, > > > > Denis Lachapelle > > -- > Spencer Webb > webb@ultranet.com > > "A dill pickle makes a soggy bookmark" -Anon. how about adjusting the ant. lenth A quarter wave ant. at 180 mhz is about 15.5 inches or you could load the short ant. with a coil -- Steven Reed KB8STB From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:15 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news2.interlog.com!winternet.com!fury.berkshire.net!usenet From: David Robbins Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Telrex tribanders and spinning elements Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:27:02 -0800 Organization: KY1H Lines: 21 Message-ID: <312180B6.4835@berkshire.net> References: <311BB812.69AA@intermediainc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp18.berkshire.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote: > > We've got a Telrex 5-element tribander at one of our club stations. We, > like several other hams I've talked to that have this antenna, have had > a chronic problem with the 20 meter reflector "tilting" with respect to > the rest of the elements and the boom. This is a common problem with Telrex antennas. I have fixed a TB5EM that had the 20m reflector torn off it completely twice in storms. Each time i added better attachments of the collar to the boom. The third time it came off I gave up on the thru the boom stuff and made up a mounting plate with u-bolts. So far it has survived more wind than it did the last time. This also makes disassembly for sale easier. 73, dave -- ky1h@berkshire.net or robbins@berkshire.net http://www.berkshire.net/~robbins/ky1h.html WWW Page now has New England Flea Market list from W1GSL From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:16 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news5.ner.bbnplanet.net!news.ner.bbnplanet.net!usenet.continental.com!usenet From: Paul Christensen Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Telrex tribanders and spinning elements Date: 14 Feb 1996 20:20:01 GMT Organization: Continental Cablevision Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4ftg5h$jtf@usenet.continental.com> References: <311BB812.69AA@intermediainc.com> <4fhesl$2tj@hummin.sol.net> <4fm001$2hn@pravda.aa.msen.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.152.167.73 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: jm@drsmesh.com Is Telrex still in Business? -Paul, N9AZ From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:17 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!fish.pond.com!kd3bj!jolt.pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news.exodus.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!interramp.com!usenet From: My name Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Telrex tribanders and spinning elements Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 23:13:37 -0500 Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link Lines: 63 Message-ID: <311EBE71.70FF@interramp.com> References: <311BB812.69AA@intermediainc.com> <4fhesl$2tj@hummin.sol.net> <4fm001$2hn@pravda.aa.msen.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.12.1.188 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Joe Mesh wrote: > > >> have the whole collar/boom > heli-arc welded together. << > > Exactly! > > I have followed Telrex products for years. The 6 element 20m and the 3 > element 40m yagis definitely have this problem. > Many modifications have been tried to overcome this problem in an > attempt to extend the useful service free life of these fine antennas. > Some who have encountered this problem and tried to counter it have even > been fine mechanical engineers. Most solutions fail at 200ft with ice > over a period of many years. Only the welding seems to be a permanent > solution for the high wind, 200ft radial ice loaded application. I > have never seen a welded solution fail. > > I have seen pins drilled through vertically that have failed. Some > engineers have specified various diameters and tempers of stainless > alloys. Some people include rope in the elements in an attempt to > fabricate a harmonic dampener of some sort (meaning without a > mathematical approach or testing). Only the welding seems to last. > > The problem with the welded solution is that it eliminates disassembly > for movement to a new QTH or resale to another user. It also requires a > welder with good skill to keep the whole structure straight and aligned. > He must have portable equipment and inert gas tanks to weld this in > the field near the place of erection. If one intends to weld the > element pieces as well they really should fabricate a method of trial > erection to examine loading, SWR, and band width at the desired > frequencies as after the welds little opportunity remains for change. > > -- > Thanks....AA8NF - Joe > from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA > 02/11/96 19:00 > _______________________________________ > Always available at: > jm@drsmesh.com -or- AA8NF@drsmesh.com > Please visit our Web Page at: > http://www.drsmesh.com > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: 2.6.1 > > mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk > ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/ > PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br > LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4 > vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR > ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs > bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg== > =+hd/ > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----I have read the same thing about the Telre x 40-meter antennas. In fact, a few years back in either CQ or 73 magazine, quite a debate raged. Finally, the guy from Telrex claimed that anyone who put an antenna up at 150-plus feet was a little wacky anyway and deserved to have it slip and slide. Or words to tht effect. Anyway, I am planning to put up a 100' tower and 40 meter beam in a year or so. Does the Telrex 40-meter yagi have this problem at all heights, or just when you get on up there? I will be living in East Tennessee, not exactly known for ice storms. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:19 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w2foe@aol.com (W2FOE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals in Trees/Radials Date: 13 Feb 1996 18:17:41 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 22 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4fr66l$bn8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <9602122023.AA11448@adphdw20> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Dennis, I have a 4square vertical array on 80 meters which sits in the middle of fairly dense woods - mostly oak and maple trees. My radiating elements are #14 insulated wire pulled up in the trees. I've tried to keep them away from the trees where possible, but one is about 4 feet from the trunk of the tree and the others are all within 10 feet of the tree supporting them. The system works well at all times, although I believe it to be somewhat better after the leaves fall. However, it should be noted that conditions on 80 meters begin to get conisderably better as the leaves fall and colder weather arrives, so I'm not sure the leaves really have anything to do with it. One other observation is that the best balance frequency (that is the frequency at which the currents in the four radiators are most balanced) is about 3825 in the summer time, and about 3790 in the winter time. The further I move from this frequency the less front to back I see. Bottom line, I think the trees have minimal affect. Can't comment on your choice of radial wire. Mine are old surplus coax laying on top of the ground - 32 on each antenna. (You can do that when you live in the woods) Good luck, Merv From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:19 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!usenet From: tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Verticals, how many radials? Date: 13 Feb 1996 23:12:23 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tboza.ch.intel.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) At what pratical point does adding more radials to a 40 meter 1/4 wave (33 ft) vertical make no more significant difference in gain, impedance and/or take-off angle? Im looking for the pratical cross-over point investment vs cost/construction per performance trade off. Im assuming adding radials is some sort or logarithm forumla and the return on investment will diminish after some significant point. Does all the radials need to be 1/4 wavelength in length or does a 3-5 ft long radial give the same effect when adding radials? WB7ASR... From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:21 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals, how many radials? Date: 13 Feb 1996 19:21:06 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 37 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Tom, In article <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) writes: >At what pratical point does adding more radials to a 40 meter 1/4 wave >(33 ft) vertical make no more significant difference in gain, impedance >and/or take-off angle? The was an extensive study done in 1937 by three engineers at RCA. With 1/8 wl radials you may as well quit at 15 or 20 but the efficiency will be pretty low. With 1/4 wl radials, the improvement stops at around 60 wires, and the antenna will be within a couple dB of the maximum possible. With 1/2 wl radials, the efficiency improves up to 110 radials. The antenna will be within a dB of perfect. Radials DO NOT change the "take-off angle" unless they are many wavelengths long, so the waveangle will be the same with any system. >Im looking for the pratical cross-over point >investment vs cost/construction per performance trade off. Im assuming >adding radials is some sort or logarithm forumla and the return on >investment will diminish after some significant point. I think 50 or so radials 1/4 wl long is a good compromise for a 1/4 wl vertical. The shorter the vertical, the more important the radials become. A short vertical needs many very long radials. >Does all the radials need to be 1/4 wavelength in length or does >a 3-5 ft long radial give the same effect when adding radials? If they are short, they don't need to be as dense. Try to make them as long as you can. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:22 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!ifwtech.demon.co.uk!G3SEK From: "Ian White, G3SEK" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals, how many radials? Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 07:39:17 +0000 Organization: IFW Technical Services Lines: 48 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 1.11 <9qI82xurdT5+z2vSgnCPFcKgQL> In article <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com>, WB7ASR wrote: >At what pratical point does adding more radials to a 40 meter 1/4 wave >(33 ft) vertical make no more significant difference in gain, impedance >and/or take-off angle? Im looking for the pratical cross-over point >investment vs cost/construction per performance trade off. Im assuming >adding radials is some sort or logarithm forumla and the return on >investment will diminish after some significant point. > The wave angle is created by ground reflections much farther out than most people's radial systems extend. The value of radials is in reducing local ground losses, immediately around the antenna, and thus improving the feedpoint efficiency. As ground losses decrease, the feedpoint imedance will fall towards the perfect-ground value of about 35 ohms, and the VSWR bandwidth will decrease. As you suspect, it's diminishing returns after a certain point. The longer the radials are, the more you can use before returns (in terms of feedpoint efficiency) start to diminish. Conversely, with shorter radials you reach the point of diminishing returns quite rapidly and the efficiency levels off at a relatively lower value. >Does all the radials need to be 1/4 wavelength in length or does >a 3-5 ft long radial give the same effect when adding radials? Resonance disappears when the radials are very close to or on the ground. Think of it more in terms of "metal-plating" the ground as extensively as you can. There's a useful table on page 3-13 of the current ARRL Antenna Handbook. There are also graphs in an article by Sevick, W2FMI in QST for April 1978. Analysing the graphs, it seems that - whatever length of radials you use - returns start to diminish when you've laid enough radials that the open ends are about 0.05 wavelengths apart. From which you may gather that 3-5ft radials are almost useless for 40m. On the other hand, there is some value in intensively "metal-plating" the first 0.05-0.1 wavelengths radius because the ground return currents are higher at distances very close to the antenna. 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:24 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!daffy.ldp.com!usenet From: rolfe@ldp.com (Rolfe Tessem) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals, how many radials? Date: 16 Feb 1996 17:43:27 GMT Organization: Lucky Duck Productions, Inc. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4g2fnv$i5a@daffy.ldp.com> References: <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: excalibur.ldp.com X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7 In article <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, w8jitom@aol.com says... > > >With 1/4 wl radials, the improvement stops at around 60 wires, and the >antenna will be within a couple dB of the maximum possible. > >With 1/2 wl radials, the efficiency improves up to 110 radials. The >antenna will be within a dB of perfect. I'm putting up one of the MFJ top-loaded models for 80 and 40 after recommendations from several users. Physical length is 33 ft. Any thoughts on the number and length of radials needed to optimize for 80m? Thoughts on a chicken wire screen vs. regular wire? Thoughts on phasing two of them? Rolfe W3VH -- Rolfe Tessem | Lucky Duck Productions, Inc. rolfe@ldp.com | 96 Morton Street (212) 463-0029 | New York, NY 10014 From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:25 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!news.jsums.edu!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!ip-pdx06-20 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals, how many radials? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 18:14:21 GMT Organization: EZNEC Antenna Software Lines: 36 Message-ID: <4g2hgc$qml@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ftscq$orn@hpscit.sc.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx06-20.teleport.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 In article <4ftscq$orn@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist) wrote: >In article <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, >W8JI Tom wrote: >>Hi Tom, >> >>Radials DO NOT change the "take-off angle" unless they are many >>wavelengths long, so the waveangle will be the same with any system. >> >>73 Tom > >Is anyone aware of any data as to how long the radials have to be for >a given take off angle? Is there any way to simulate this with NEC >or whatever? "Takeoff angle" is a misleading term to use for this. Actually, it's usually a misleading term to use to describe an antenna pattern at any time, because it reduces a pattern shape to a single number. Like "average" or "peak", a lot of information is lost in the reduction. (Remember the statistician who drowned while crossing a creek whose average depth was only three feet!) "Takeoff angle" usually means the elevation angle at which the radiation is maximum. The radiation at low angles (or any other angle, for that matter) can change a great deal without any effect on the "takeoff angle". Antennas with the same "takeoff angle" can have vastly different performance at other, possibly more important elevation angles. Putting out moderately long radials (1/2 wavelength or so) does have some effect on the field strength from a vertical at very low angles. The amount of the effect depends on the ground conductivity and permittivity, the antenna height, and of course the number and length of radials and the elevation angle in question. Both MININEC and NEC do a good job of modeling this effect, provided that the ground is flat well beyond the ends of the radials. Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:26 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ghgcorp.com!usenet From: Serious Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: WANTED: TOWER/ANTENNAE Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:39:22 -0800 Organization: GHG Corporation Lines: 24 Message-ID: <311D1E9A.5DD9@ghgcorp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialupline23.ghgcorp.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Hi. Due to a tornado, my tower and antennae are now junk. STATE FARM INSURANCE REFUSES TO PAY CLAIM!!!!! DETAILS UPON REQUEST. I am wanting to buy the following: a used TRI-EX/HYGAIN LM-354 tower or at the very least, the center section thereof. HYGAIN TH-7DXS OR TH-11. CUSCHCRAFT 2 METER BOOMER. M2 1.2 gig atv antenna. AEA OR M2 434 mhz. atv antenna. Please send prices and condition. Thank you. W5BRY, Ros. my email is rstjohn@ghgcorp.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:27 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!aimnet.com!news.exodus.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail From: Burt Fisher Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.amateur.wicen,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: What about ham radio that is on the cutting edge. Date: 13 Feb 1996 00:12:27 GMT Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4fol1b$nrj@alterdial.UU.NET> References: <4fn47d$j76@www.acay.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: s202.ccsnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 32bit) Xref: news.epix.net aus.radio.amateur.misc:437 aus.radio.amateur.wicen:70 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19061 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14142 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24936 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13330 rec.radio.amateur.misc:98072 rec.radio.scanner:45535 rec.radio.swap:57485 From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:27 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.icon.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news5.ner.bbnplanet.net!news.ner.bbnplanet.net!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!baack Organization: University of Maine System Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 09:37:24 EST From: Message-ID: <96047.093724BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: What is good for 6m? Lines: 8 Hello, just want to get some info. on what antennas seem to "do the job" on 6 meters. What is good, what is not. Thanks, Jason N1RWY FN54 baack@maine.maine.edu http://www.umecut.maine.edu A.T. hiking is a poor products nightmare..... From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:28 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ghgcorp.com!usenet From: Ros Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: WTB: TOWER/ANTENNAE Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:00:51 -0800 Organization: GHG Corporation Lines: 24 Message-ID: <31213443.24C1@ghgcorp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialupline18.ghgcorp.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) Hi. Due to a tornado, my tower and antennae are now junk. STATE FARM INSURANCE REFUSES TO PAY CLAIM!!!!! DETAILS UPON REQUEST. I am wanting to buy the following: a used TRI-EX/HYGAIN LM-354 tower or at the very least, the center section thereof. HYGAIN TH-7DXS OR TH-11. CUSCHCRAFT 2 METER BOOMER. M2 1.2 gig atv antenna. AEA OR M2 434 mhz. atv antenna. Please send prices and condition. Thank you. W5BRY, Ros. my email is rstjohn@ghgcorp.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:29 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jrosariojr@aol.com (JRosariojr) Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.amateur.wicen,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: Re: WTB:5KW AM Transmitter Date: 14 Feb 1996 03:49:49 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 1 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4fs7nd$por@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4fn47d$j76@www.acay.com.au> Reply-To: jrosariojr@aol.com (JRosariojr) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Xref: news.epix.net aus.radio.amateur.misc:446 aus.radio.amateur.wicen:71 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:19099 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:14179 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:24980 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:13359 rec.radio.amateur.misc:98120 rec.radio.scanner:45613 rec.radio.swap:57615 good luck From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:30 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.onramp.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!in2p3.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!dsi.unimi.it!aix1.cdc.polimi.it!cdc8g5.cdc.polimi.it!piu1884 From: piu1884@cdc8g5.cdc.polimi.it (Claudio (IN3OTD)) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Yagi elements correction factor Date: 14 Feb 1996 17:00:30 GMT Organization: Centro di Calcolo POLITECNICO di MILANO Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4ft4fe$qek@aix1.cdc.polimi.it> NNTP-Posting-Host: cdc8g5.cdc.polimi.it X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Hi, all! Does anyone know about the difference between correction factors for Yagis with square cross-section boom and with circular cross-section boom ? I found some literature on the latter type but nothing on the former... Thanks in advance! Claudio, IN3OTD. From lwbyppp@epix.net Sat Feb 17 13:37:31 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!lori.albany.net!news.sover.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!news.crosslink.net!usenet From: chestert@crosslink.net (Chester Alderman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ~~~? What is the best coax cable for CB's?~~~~ Date: 10 Feb 1996 03:54:39 GMT Organization: CrossLink Internet Services Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4fh4tv$ah5@zeus.crosslink.net> References: <4dpris$qhs@hgea01.hgea.org> <4dr03e$n1l@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ebt3g$fkn@news.mcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn016a.springfield.va.us.crosslink.net X-Newsreader: NeoLogic News for OS/2 [version: 4.2] In message - js@ibbs.av.org (Jeff Stillinger) writes: :> :>Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL (vfiscus@mcn.net) wrote: :> :>: Best Coax for CB is one that ends in a dummy load. :> :> :>It is VERY important that when using CB radio to mount your coax in a :>strait line, placing a nail though the coax every 3 feet. Roofing nails :>work best. This will keep the cable from flopping about in the wind. :> :>-- :>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - :>Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB js@ibbs.av.org :>PSC Box 3429 js@red-eft.la.ca.us :>Edwards AFB, CA 93524 +1 805 258 7303 8N1 :>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - If you listen to the ham bands during a pile-up, or if you listen to some of the 'broadcast' on the ham bands, or if you listen to the cussin and inexcuseable operation on the ham bands, you certainly could apply the above 'advice' to a hell of a lot of ham radio operators. Tom / W4BQF chestert@crosslink.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:03 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: (no subject) Message-ID: <1996Feb17.184546.22791@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4fq6od$tmg@rcogate.rco.qc.ca> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 18:45:46 GMT In article <4fq6od$tmg@rcogate.rco.qc.ca> Jean-Guy Moreau writes: > >Why can't I use galvanized steel wire to make antennas? Steel is ferromagnetic. That has the effect of making the skin resistance of the wire *very* much greater than copper or aluminum. Increased skin resistance is increased heat loss which means less signal radiated. OTOH it's really easy to get a good SWR with this setup because the extra losses make the antenna look "flat" (that is to say, look like a dummy load). Always be wary of an antenna with a flat SWR curve. It usually means that it's inefficient. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:05 1996 From: rcrgs@regcon.syr.servtech.com (Robert G. Strickland) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 4 ele Gem Quad Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 12:29:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4gfhmn$5ph@murphy.servtech.com> References: <4g1kh4$84@nuntius.u-net.net> garry@bonney.u-net.com (Garry Walker) wrote: >I am trying to find out about the performance/problems with a 4 ele >Gem Quad. I have used a 2 ele quad in the past on 10 metres only, but >would like further info. I am interested in the feed arrangement for >a 5 band version of the quad, interaction problems, etc etc. >Any info would be most appreciated. >Regards Garry >---------------------------------- >G0IHB, GX0TEN, F/G0IHB/P >Internet:garry@bonney.u-net.com >Packet: G0IHB@F6KBO.FBRE.FRA.EU >---------------------------------- Just read the comments of [hmmm, forgot to get his name/call before closing the window], and thought i'd throw some wood on the fire. I have a Lightning Bolt, five band, two element quad, also advertised in the usual places. This quad does NOT use a central spider for the spreaders, but rather an 8ft boom with spreader mounts on each end. The spreaders are the usual fiberglass, etc, etc, etc. The advantages of this construction, observed after the fact, are as follows. [1] each bay can be assembled laying flat on the ground. I did both in one, long day. It wasn't hard, just time consuming as things usually are. [2] since the boom and two bays are separate items, they can each be hauled up in the air separately. I installed the boom and then slid it back and forth to bring each end within easy reach. I then "flew" each bay up using a jin pole for lift and friends on the ground holding cords that "held" the bay away from everything on the way up. Once bolted to the boom, the cords were slipped off. No problem. I didn't tune the thing (see below), but have muscled it back and forth several times doing one thing or another. It's a bit of a sweat job, but in the end, not so hard to do. Accordingly, tuning would be easy to accomplish, since the tuning stubs can be brought within eash reach. Quads built with a central spider will not have this flexibility. This quad is also built with all driven elements tied together to one 2:1 balun and fed with 52ohm coax. SWR is low across all bands except 15m where it is higher but still under 2:1. Performance is fine, especially when you compare it to other 5-band antennas. I've become interested in studying quads and have been using EZNEC to teach myself about them. Nice program, and very instructiive. What I have learned to date is that there are many subtilties of design with the quad, all of which alter its performance in significant ways. A good design can be achieved to deliver whatever performance profile one desires. What is clear is that wire lenghts, spacing, driver-reflector ratio and operating freq all play a part. Sooooo, it's clear to me that my initial wire cutting was rather casual compared to what I would do now. Also, I think that separate feeds would increase performance. Accordingly, I'm going to redesign this thing and "reconstruct" it this summer. Up and down should go as easy as the original installation. It has been up through four winters without incident, two of which were the worst on record here in Central New York. At this point, I'm not looking to yagi's, especially in light of wanting 5-band performance. Now, 5-elements would be an entirely different question, and then a crane/etc probably becomes mandatory. Robert Robert G. Strickland KE2WY rcrgs@regcon.syr.servtech.com Syracuse, New York From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:07 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc From: dbaker@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us (Donald I. Baker) Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City, TXxID-1 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 02:18:32 GMT References: <4efpb3$pt2@alpha.sky.net> <4ete1q$b0o@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca> <4fgm3h$7n3@abyss.West.Sun.COM> <4g6ard$han@news.pacifier.com> In article <4g6ard$han@news.pacifier.com> narc@pacifier.com () writes: >From: narc@pacifier.com () >Subject: Re: 82 Repeater in Kansas City, TXxID-1 >Date: 18 Feb 1996 04:44:29 GMT >I WRITE: > Of course if you are a smart jammer like myself. You simply >construct a simple automatic rf sensing switch box. Simply made from rip >off shack parts. What it does is for the first 100mills on the tx my rf >output is directed into a small 10 watt 50 ohm dumy load, after the cap >charges up it causes the relay to swithc me over to my antenna. >VAWALLLLAAAAA NO fingerprint. Of course no fingerprint is a fingerprint. >but now i cant give out all my secrets can I? >jeff aa7up >PDX, or of course you could just mod the radio so that the final is "up" all the time and just switch the link between the driver and final........... Donald I. Baker Reville Engineering Services 4619 Schenley Road Baltimore, MD 21210-2525 (410) 467-7163 Custon Harsh Environment Computers and RF Products "Where no PC has gone before..." From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:08 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 9:1 Baluns Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 21:22:38 -0500 Message-ID: References: <199602172201.RAA21907@soho.ios.com> writes: >Seveal recent articles in QST and other magazines describe antennas >requiring 9:1 baluns. I understand Palomar makes a ground mount 9:1 Hi Bob, for you to need a 9:1 balun your antenna impedance would need to be 450 ohms. I haven't kept up with the articles you mention, but that impedance is rare for an antenna. If your antenna system has appreciable reflections, you probably don't need a 9:1 balun. If you have an SWR much different from 1:1, you will never see 450 ohms using 450 ladder- line. You will see resistive impedances of SWR times 450 and SWR divided into 450 but never 450+j0. Are the antennas you describe high SWR configurations? 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:09 1996 From: thompson@atl.mindspring.com (David L. Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: a slinky antenna? Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 04:03:08 GMT Message-ID: <4g3jjo$8rv@firebrick.mindspring.com> References: <4g3b0f$1kea@lamar.ColoState.EDU> Reply-To: thompson@atl.mindspring.com curt@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Curtis Brown) wrote: >I've heard before about ham antennas being made out of slinkys. Is this a >rumor, or has anybody actually done this? If so, are there any 'construction >plans' available? >Thanks in advance. > Curtis > curt@lamar.colostate.edu There was a commercial Slinky antenna made from heavy 4" coils several years ago. There have been articles over the past 10 or 15 years in QST, CQ, 73. Consider a Slinky as a helical antenna! 73, Dave K4JRB From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:10 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: a slinky antenna? Message-ID: References: <4g3b0f$1kea@lamar.ColoState.EDU> <4g3jjo$8rv@firebrick.mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 12:06:46 GMT : >I've heard before about ham antennas being made out of slinkys. Is this a : >rumor, or has anybody actually done this? If so, are there any 'constructio n : >plans' available? Slinky antennas have been around since the late 60's. They were designed to be used as indoor antennas for obvious reasons. They require adjusting for each band change. Always looked like a lot of trouble to me but a novel idea. Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:10 1996 From: cjpratsj@aztec.asu.edu (CAMILLE J. PRAT, SJ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: a slinky antenna? Date: 19 Feb 1996 03:54:51 GMT Message-ID: <4g8sab$sk9@news.asu.edu> References: <3127EA14.27FF@compuserve.com> <4g3b0f$1kea@lamar.ColoState.EDU> Reply-To: cjpratsj@aztec.asu.edu (CAMILLE J. PRAT, SJ) >Curtis Brown wrote: >> >> I've heard before about ham antennas being made out of slinkys. Is this a >> rumor, or has anybody actually done this? If so, are there any 'constructio n >> plans' available? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> There have been a couple of posts about slinkys a good while back. For those interested, Antennas West markets an antenna kit involving 2 slinkys. For their address, check 73 magazine and/or QST, where they've advertised regularly. They may be in other ham magazines; I just haven't noticed them there..... 73, ..... Camille Prat KB7LBN -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:12 1996 From: curt@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Curtis Brown) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: a slinky antenna? Date: 16 Feb 1996 18:28:47 -0700 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4g3b0f$1kea@lamar.ColoState.EDU> I've heard before about ham antennas being made out of slinkys. Is this a rumor, or has anybody actually done this? If so, are there any 'construction plans' available? Thanks in advance. Curtis curt@lamar.colostate.edu -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Curtis Brown Curt@Lamar.ColoState.Edu http://lamar.colostate.edu/~curt From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:12 1996 From: johnn0isl@aol.com (John N0ISL) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: a slinky antenna? Date: 17 Feb 1996 20:11:26 -0500 Message-ID: <4g5ubu$b1d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4g3jjo$8rv@firebrick.mindspring.com> Reply-To: johnn0isl@aol.com (John N0ISL) The Slinky was marketed by KK4WW from Floyd, VA. He still has the technical data. It was the Balckwell group if I remember correctly... John Douglas, N0ISL AX.25 N0ISL@KZ7I.#MSP.MN.USA.NOAM I'm in Minnesota only because I must be somewhere! From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:14 1996 From: little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Information For C.B. Radio Date: 20 Feb 1996 18:01:35 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gd29v$kb5@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: <4gbcf4$4rn@news-2.ccinet.ab.ca> Reply-To: little@pecan.enet.dec.com In article n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) wrote: > For CB radio we highly recomment a good underground antenna. Bury it at > least 6ft. The copper tubing will make good plumbing material. Use tubing > large enough to pass the CB radio through, about 6" is large enough. > Connect the far end to the drain pipe of your house and insert the CB. > Follow up with a large bucket of water. > : Does anyone know how to make an antenna for a base C.B. radio > : unit, I have a lot of copper wire,copper tubing that type of > : stuff, would like to know suggested height if that matters. > : Will be using this in a city. I've seen several posts along this line recently and have to ask "What are you trying to prove?" Is your sense of self worth so low that your only answer to someone is to denigrate them because they aren't a licensed amateur? Do you make snide comments to the public when they come to your Field Day station? Our bands are granted to us not by just the amateur population but the entire population of the country. I'm sure responses such as above really help our cause when the country looks to us as a pool of trained technical resources. I guess your view is that those trained resources can only be counted on to help themselves and not the general public? Nice attitude and interpretation of Part 97.1. :-( In answer to the original question, a 1/4 wave ground plane antenna would work fine. The higher the better. A 1/4 wave CB ground plane antenna would have a vertical element (piece of 1/2" copper tubing would do fine) that is attached to the center conductor of your coax and it should be about 8 1/4 feet high. The ground plane should be 3 or 4 radials (also of tubing if you like) that are about the same length and attached to the braid of your coax. I'd start with 8 1/2 of tubing for the vertical element and trim it as necessary to lower your SWR. Also, please forgive the rather boorish response given by the previous poster. He is definitely *not* representative of all amateurs (just a loud vocal minority.) Another source of information on antennas and their construction is the ARRL Antenna Book. Should be available at a public library near you or you can order it directly from the ARRL at 860-594-0200. 73, Todd N9MWB From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:15 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Antenna Information For C.B. Radio Message-ID: References: <4gbcf4$4rn@news-2.ccinet.ab.ca> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:15:35 GMT For CB radio we highly recomment a good underground antenna. Bury it at least 6ft. The copper tubing will make good plumbing material. Use tubing large enough to pass the CB radio through, about 6" is large enough. Connect the far end to the drain pipe of your house and insert the CB. Follow up with a large bucket of water. : Does anyone know how to make an antenna for a base C.B. radio : unit, I have a lot of copper wire,copper tubing that type of : stuff, would like to know suggested height if that matters. : Will be using this in a city. : Thank-you,if you have any info. Email me waynem@ccinet.ab.ca -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:15 1996 From: jwg6@cornell.edu (Joel Govostes) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Placement on Vehicles? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 19:07:35 -0500 Message-ID: I work at a university that has a fleet of buses to move everyone around. Each bus has an FM transceiver for dispatching purposes. It always bugged me that the 3-4 ft. whip antenna on each bus is mounted on the side just behind where the driver is, and about 2" away from the side of the bus running vertically parallel to it. I presume the bus is the ground plane. Question is, how can those antennas possibly work correctly when they are so close to the metal side of the bus for practically their whole length? The same problem arises with vans which have bumper-mounted vertical whips. Doesn't the proximity to the auto body ruin the feed-point impedance and radiation??? Thanks to anyone with ideas on this... N1AEP From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:16 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Antenna Relay?? Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 15:58:22 GMT Has anyone tried using a mercury wetted relay for an antenna changeover switch between transmitter and receiver? I'm considering this because I want QSK and have been looking at some 2pdt mercury relays for keying the transmitter. They are rated for 2 amps at 500 volts but are physically very small. The goal here is to make a very quiet, fast breakin system. Can mercury relays handle RF? -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:17 1996 From: "Anthony R. Gold" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Relay?? Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 17:53:34 GMT Message-ID: <824406814snz@microvst.demon.co.uk> References: Reply-To: tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk In article n4lq@iglou.com "Steve Ellington" writes: > Has anyone tried using a mercury wetted relay for an antenna changeover > switch between transmitter and receiver? I'm considering this because I > want QSK and have been looking at some 2pdt mercury relays for keying the > transmitter. They are rated for 2 amps at 500 volts but are physically > very small. The goal here is to make a very quiet, fast breakin system. > Can mercury relays handle RF? In a perfectly matched 50 ohm transmission line, the current will exceed 2 amps peak above 100 watts. Regards, -- Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM email: tgold@panix.com tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:19 1996 From: mluther@tamu.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Relay?? Date: 19 Feb 1996 06:03:04 GMT Message-ID: <4g93qo$pdj@news.tamu.edu> References: <4g3t7r$ddd@news.tamu.edu> <4g8r01$tb9@news1.sunbelt.net> Reply-To: mluther@tamu.edu In <4g8r01$tb9@news1.sunbelt.net>, flanders@znet.groupz.net (Jerry Flanders) w rites: >mluther@tamu.edu wrote: >================Concerning a QSK antenna relay system============ >snip... > >>There are a whole set of vaccuum RF relays made by several shops. The >>little RJ-1 relay which is a double pole single throw relay is VERY quiet. >>This is a Jennings part, available off the shelf from RF shops all over. > >SNIP... > >>Now comes the fun part. Toggle the relay so that when the relay snaps shut, >>it is grounding your receiver antenna, but at the same time, through an RF >>choke setup, that same ground circuit actually is your KEY line to the >>transmitter. No grounded RX input; no RF output either. > >>Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tamu.edu >================================================================== >Mike, > >What happens upon key-up? At the instant the relay starts to open, >there is still RF being generated, and will continue for a few MS >(from the usual tailing-off we all see in the rig tests of qsk >performance). How do you deal with this? > >Jerry W4UKU flanders@groupz.net > Key line is in series with the closure as well. It comes up FIRST, silencing the RF generation. Relay drags it's feet for the time required, or so it seem s. I've never had any noticable problem with it. All the RF is gone by the time the armature is back on contact for the RX side of the house. Getting it to snap shut quickly is no problem. The decay time is slower than the closure time pulsed like this anyway. You can pad the circuit with a little capacitance and even get the relay to drag on and cover up the dots if you like. It's really VERY quiet, but if you like, you can tune it so that it doesn't fully drop out between the dots and dashes. My plate transformer from Pete Dahl makes more noise from the core chatter than the relay! There is an article in a very old QST on building the little box. About 1960 or so, I think. I'm not at my library, so I can't pull it up from memory. If you can get to the December QST index lists for the 60's or so and look forward, you can get the schematic for it from QST. Next time I am out at the fixed site for W5WQN, I'll get the article citations for you and post it to your email address, or will try to. The site is my FidoNet site 1:117/3000, however, there are gateway problems right now. I think I can get a reply to you before the gateway goes down, but you can't reply to me here for email and the gate may be closed by the time you try to reply to my mail to you... Cheers, Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tamu.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:20 1996 From: dave.des@metronet.com (David de Schweinitz) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Software Date: 18 Feb 1996 15:27:40 GMT Message-ID: <4g7ghc$74@feenix.metronet.com> References: <4g59va$ck7@news.asu.edu> To: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Subject: Re: Antenna Software Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Organization: Texas Metronet, Inc (login info (214/488-2590 - 817/571-0400)) In article <4g59va$ck7@news.asu.edu> you wrote: : G4WNT asked about NEC based antenna software : I have read som articles mentioning NEC, and the development of it that : runs on PC's (MININEC), and versions with graphical goodies (ELNEC). There : may be others. : : ftp.netcom.com/pub/ra/rander/NEC MININEC is a BASIC implementation of NEC, first written when the FORTRAN-based full-up NEC was too much for PCs. The full-up NEC runs fine on decent computers now. I haven't messed with MININEC lately. I use NEC2, which I believe is the latest public-domain (free) version. You might want to try both. Executables and source are available, as well as several utilities to make input/output more friendly. Check out the "00-index.txt" (or something like that) file for descriptions of the available files. I think that the PC executable package is called something like nec-pc.zip. There's also a nec2pc.zip package that's more appropriate for older machines with less memory (but it seems much slower on my machine). Some folks are working on a html manual. Check out my nv and nov input and output geometry/color-coded current map programs. NEC is a great tool, and it's possible to analyze quite realistic models now. 300-segment models run on a 486DX within 5 meg. of memory in a minute or so. Dave From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:21 1996 From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Software Date: 17 Feb 1996 19:23:22 GMT Message-ID: <4g59va$ck7@news.asu.edu> G4WNT asked about NEC based antenna software I have read som articles mentioning NEC, and the development of it that runs on PC's (MININEC), and versions with graphical goodies (ELNEC). There may be others. From where can any of this software be obtained? See Roy Lewallen ads in QST for ELNEC and EZNEC Charlie , W7XC -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:22 1996 From: rcrgs@regcon.syr.servtech.com (Robert G. Strickland) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Software Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 12:06:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4gfgbq$5f8@murphy.servtech.com> References: <4g59va$ck7@news.asu.edu> hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) wrote: >G4WNT asked about NEC based antenna software >I have read som articles mentioning NEC, and the development of it that >runs on PC's (MININEC), and versions with graphical goodies (ELNEC). There >may be others. >From where can any of this software be obtained? > See Roy Lewallen ads in QST for ELNEC and EZNEC >Charlie , W7XC >-- Some further comments... I recently bought Roy's EZNEC, and I am finding it both easy to use and a good teaching/research tool. I give it a very good evaluation. I'm running it on a 486DX75 with 8Mgs mem, and it perks right along. Robert Robert G. Strickland KE2WY rcrgs@regcon.syr.servtech.com Syracuse, New York From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:23 1996 From: mlazaroff@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ball mount strong enough for screw driver antenna? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 21:38:12 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4foria$qjj@usenet.pa.dec.com> <31224003.182388385@news.agt.net> <4fvns3$pmu@usenet.pa.dec.com> Todd Little writes: >By powering the screw driver one way or the other, you can move the inner >coil up or down. If more loading is required, you simply push more coil out, if >less is needed, then you pull the coil further into the outer tube. They are >available pre-assembled or you can home brew one yourself. They are >supposed to work quite well. We'll see. :-) > >73, >Todd >N9MWB They sure do...I've used one for nearly a year now and would not go back to any of the other HF mobile antennas I've used (Hustlers, Bugcatcher, whips, etc.). The screwdriver is a fantastic performer and is by far the most convenient for all band (80 to 10m) use. Haven't tried it yet on 160 but that's next :) 73 de Mike, KB3RG From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:24 1996 From: little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ball mount strong enough for screw driver antenna? Date: 15 Feb 1996 16:43:47 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4fvns3$pmu@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: <4foria$qjj@usenet.pa.dec.com> <31224003.182388385@news.agt.net> Reply-To: little@pecan.enet.dec.com In article <31224003.182388385@news.agt.net> smason@agt.net (Steve Mason) wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, but I've seen this mentioned a few times now, what > exactly is a "screw driver" antenna? A "screw driver" antenna is a mobile HF antenna that gets its name from using a hand held power screw driver to adjust the setting of a coil. Basical ly the antenna is a roughly 2" diameter tube with a disemboweled hand held power screw driver mounted inside. In the chuck of the screw driver is a piece of threaded rod. Riding on that threaded rod is a smaller diameter tube that has a coil wound around it. At the top of the outer tube is some finger stock (or other wiper material) that grips the coil wound on the inner tube. Attach ed to the top of the inner tube (and the coil wrapped around it) is a whip. So t he thing looks like a variable base loaded whip. By powering the screw driver one way or the other, you can move the inner coil up or down. If more loading is required, you simply push more coil out, if less is needed, then you pull the coil further into the outer tube. They are available pre-assembled or you can home brew one yourself. They are supposed to work quite well. We'll see. :-) 73, Todd N9MWB From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:25 1996 From: pgerba@crl.com (Peter Gerba) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Best 1.2 GHz repeater beam ? Date: 14 Feb 1996 21:14:38 -0800 Message-ID: <4fuffu$7e4@crl2.crl.com> I'm looking for a short (4 FT or so) 1.2 GHz beam for the repeater band. I want to buy an antenna that is well made; loop or vert polar yagi. Thanks for any advice. A friend has had an M2 on order for more than a year and is still waiting...no M2 ! pete pgerba@crl.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:26 1996 From: Roland S Geter PhD Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.noncomm,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: Re: Broadcasting Radio Station Database for you...... Date: 17 Feb 1996 07:47:44 GMT Message-ID: <4g4170$hl2@news1.goodnet.com> References: <4fme8u$bsf@news.flinet.com> To: chuck@mail.flinet.com Hi Chuck, Let's try to get the database over here on this provider, OK? Thanks Roland S Geter PhD roland@mycronet.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:27 1996 From: little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Butternut HF Multiband Vertical Date: 21 Feb 1996 18:34:05 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gfoit$2f@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: Reply-To: little@pecan.enet.dec.com In article John M Sonley wrote: > I've heard good reports of it's efficiency wrt other types but it looks > pretty flimsy and is probably a real pain to tune. Would welcome anyones > experiences of buying, building, tuning-up and using - - - > or should I go for a vertical using the linear resonator principle? I have one and really like it. I usually keep it lightly guyed above the top set of coils, but that is mostly because we can get some pretty good icing here. As for tuning, I don't think it is more of a pain to tune than any other multi-band antenna. You start with the lowest frequency and then work up from there. Each coil is adjusted for lowest SWR and then you move on. The biggest problem I had was that I installed the 160 meter coil and still wanted a DC grounded antenna. In talking with the manufacturer, we determined a way to provide a similar feed as is used without the 160 meter coil, but it means I need to readjust my antenna, which is a pain given the weather here now. Also, I have mine mounted about 8-10' up with a set of elevated radials. Most people I have talked to that use this arrangement really like it! As for using it, the only complaint I have is narrow bandwidth. The 160 meter coil further reduces the bandwidth on 80 and a little on 40. If you don't install radials or have lousy ground, you might get better bandwidth, but you are trading off efficiency. Personally I'll take the narrow bandwidth on the lower bands instead of the increased ground losses 73, Todd N9MWB From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:29 1996 From: EMAIL-NAME@quantum.net (YOUR NAME) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Cubical Quad Antennas for HF Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 22:01:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4g8p7f$hi5@news.paonline.com> References: <4fsgkr$2v3@btr0x6.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de> Bob Archer N4ECO wrote: >I had a CUBEX Tri-Band Quad that I purchased used in 1980. I >used it for 10 years at 50 feet. >I would still be using it had it not been for not having a place >to install it when I moved. > >>==========Karl-Heinz Merscher,,,, 2/14/96========== >> >> >> >>Hi out there, >> >>is there anybody who operats with a LBA (Lightning Bolt Antennas) or a >>cubical quad antenna made by CUBEX?? >> >>The LBA antennas are cheaper than the Cubex antennas. In the catalogues >>it seems that the CUBEX antennas are better in stability. >> >>Any exerperiences with that antennas?? >> >>I'm searching for a supplier of a good cubical quad antenna ... >> >>Thanks in advance! >> >>Charlie >> >>DL6RDE >Bob Archer N4ECO I used a GEM Quad 2ele on 15 meters during CQWW 1993 test, following year I used a Cushcraft A3S at same height. The GEM Quad out performed the yagi by a mile. Stan AH6JR From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:30 1996 From: bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonneau) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Does anyone know of tower legislation in Vermont? Are there any VT hams out there that could give me some info? Date: 20 Feb 1996 19:46:59 GMT Message-ID: <4gd8fj$527@ulowell.uml.edu> References: <4gd87t$235@ulowell.uml.edu> Hello, Name is Brad NZ1Y, and I am looking to build a home in Vermont in the nea r future. I am looking to set up a decent tower there. Does anyone know of t he tower legislation in any of the rural towns in VT tends to be? In general, are the rural areas more accepting of a ham tower? If anyone could help me w ith any info regarding this subject, I'd greatly appreciate it. Or, if anyone could direct me to someone who could help me with this info, I'd also appreci ate that. Thanks in advance! Brad NZ1Y From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:31 1996 From: goose@atlantic.net (Richard Zimmerman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Florida Ham Antenna Restrictions - ch125.htm (0/1) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 20:32:55 GMT Message-ID: <4g5e8k$mm@lal.interserv.net> References: <199602011849.MAA05482@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> <4f7v2j$296@news.atlantic.net> <4fqpsu$143k@news.gate.net> <4ftgjc$jtf@usenet.continental.com> Reply-To: goose@atlantic.net Paul Christensen wrote: >I'll be starting law school this fall. Perhaps I'll carve my niche in >this area after graduating! >-Paul, N9AZ Although a good idea, and I'm sure many hams would thank you, would there ready be enough "Business" in 1 state to warrent specializing in Antenna restrictions? Curious question, I know.... Richard, KE4RIT From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:32 1996 From: Al Konschak Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: G5RV on 160 meters Date: 19 Feb 1996 00:05:16 GMT Message-ID: <4g8ers$1to@news.voicenet.com> Does anyone have the dimensions for a G5RV to be used on 160. I've tried the method of shorting out the input and driving it as a "T" but have had limited success. There must be a longer design that will work on 160. Thanks WI3Z Al From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:32 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: G5RV on 160 meters Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 21:29:13 -0500 Message-ID: <5nFIKU5.cecilmoore@delphi.com> References: <4g8ers$1to@news.voicenet.com> Al Konschak writes: >Does anyone have the dimensions for a G5RV to be used on 160. Hi Al, if I remember the Antennas West G5RV ap note correctly, just doubling all dimensions will yield a (what else?) double-size G5RV. Halving the dimensions yields a half-size G5RV for 40m. It stands to reason that the harmonically related bands would scale (160m,80m,40m,20m,10m) but the different sized antennas may have completely different characteristics on the WARC bands. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:33 1996 From: Michael Haydon Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: G5RV on 160 meters Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 17:11:01 -0600 Message-ID: References: <4g8ers$1to@news.voicenet.com> Currently use a Double g5rv, 204foot on 160, fed with 450 ohm twinlead, driving it with a knwd ts-830, works fb On 19 Feb 1996, Al Konschak wrote: > Does anyone have the dimensions for a G5RV to be used on 160. > I've tried the method of shorting out the input and driving > it as a "T" but have had limited success. There must be a longer > design that will work on 160. > > Thanks > WI3Z > Al > > > From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:34 1996 From: thompson@atl.mindspring.com (David L. Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: G5RV vs. 130' Dipole Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 03:56:44 GMT Message-ID: <4g3j7p$8rv@firebrick.mindspring.com> References: <4fqpio$8mj@news.monad.net> Reply-To: thompson@atl.mindspring.com Chester Bowles wrote: >For years I've used a 130' dipole fed with 450 ohm line. I use a Dentron >tuner, so the antenna works great on all bands (including an occasional >160 meter contact). >I've never used a G5RV, but I hear lots of good signals from folks who >use them. So, all other things being equal, I'd appreciate any comments >about the merits of a G5RV versus my existing 130'dipole. Should I make >the switch? Stay with the dipole. The G5RV does not work as well on 80 and your antenna is simplier to maintain. One thing you might want to consider for 160 is to load 1/2 of the antenna as a 1/4 L and use the other as a counterpoise. Drake tells of this scheme in their 2700 tuner and there is no reason why it cannot be used with any tuner. Hook one side to the long wire connection of the Dentron and hook the other side to the ground. WA2SRQ is one that does well in contests with an 80 meter dipole thus connected. You can't do this with the G5RV. 73, Dave K4JRB From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:36 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: G5RV vs. 130' Dipole Date: Sat, 17 Feb 96 11:44:37 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4fqpio$8mj@news.monad.net> <4g3j7p$8rv@firebrick.mindspring.com> David L. Thompson writes: >>I've never used a G5RV, but I hear lots of good signals from folks who >>use them. So, all other things being equal, I'd appreciate any comments >>about the merits of a G5RV versus my existing 130'dipole. Should I make >>the switch? > >Stay with the dipole. The G5RV does not work as well on 80 and your >antenna is simplier to maintain. How do you know Chester's dipole works better on 80 than a G5RV? His SWR on 80 will be close to 9:1 on the ladder-line. If he is feeding his antenna with an odd multiple of quarter-wavelengths, his balun will see about 4000 ohms. Slightly shorter or longer will result in high reactance in addition to high resistance. How are you going to design a balun to handle those impedances? The G5RV feedpoint impedance on 80m is around 10 ohms which is pretty easy to match. IMO, to put his mind at rest, Chester should make some simple ladder- line measurements that yield the impedance at the balun or tuner. Knowing that impedance will tell him if he needs to do something different. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:37 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: G5RV vs. 130' Dipole Date: 18 Feb 1996 13:08:34 -0500 Message-ID: <4g7pv2$128@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4g3j7p$8rv@firebrick.mindspring.com> In article <4g3j7p$8rv@firebrick.mindspring.com>, thompson@atl.mindspring.com (David L. Thompson) writes: > >Stay with the dipole. The G5RV does not work as well on 80 and your >antenna is simplier to maintain. The poor G5RV doesn't deserve such a reputation.;-) I had both a G5RV (up `80-90 feet) and a dipole fed with ladder line (up 130-135 ft) here. They were about 100 feet apart (end to end). Truthfully, no one I talked to caould tell the difference between them on 80, 40, or 20 when I A-B'ed the antennas! On 15 and ten the ladder line fed dipole was a bit better, but the G5RV was easier to match on 80, 40 and 20 and gave me less problems with windload from the feedline. The G5RV SWR was less than 3:1 on 80, 40 and 20 without a tuner. >One thing you might want to consider for 160 is to load 1/2 of the >antenna as a 1/4 L and use the other as a counterpoise. Drake tells >of this scheme in their 2700 tuner and there is no reason why it >cannot be used with any tuner. Hook one side to the long wire >connection of the Dentron and hook the other side to the ground. >WA2SRQ is one that does well in contests with an 80 meter dipole thus >connected. You can't do this with the G5RV. This ceratinly CAN be done with a G5RV, as long as the balun is accessable. 160 operation can be obtained by connecting either the shield or the center (alone or in parallel) to the tuner's unbalanced output. I bring the G5RV's short ladder line feeder down to coax, and the coax down to ground level. At the ground, I installed a choke balun and a ground system. I can load the G5RV as a "T" on 160, and the normal way on the other bands by changing a jumper connection at the balun. By the way, there is very little difference connecting to one feedline wire or both in parallel. The antenna still acts like a T, and not an L. There is so much coupling from conductor to conductor over the length of the feedline, both halves of the flat-top are active on 160 no matter how they are connected at the feedpoint. 73, Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:38 1996 From: mike.groves@memousa.ericsson.se (Mike Groves) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help Needed: UHF, H-Polarize, Omni Dir. antenna with *GAIN*. HOW? Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 22:00:54 GMT Message-ID: <4gask1$1f3@erinews.ericsson.se> OK you guys (gals), I've got a problem in need of an answer. If money were no object, how would one go about getting any kind of gain from an antenna at a repeater sight that was horizontal polarized and "semi" omni directional? (I actually only need about 160 degrees of coverage as the repeater is located part-way up a hillside, overlooking a valley.) This will be used on the 440 MHz band. I'm currently using an egg-beater, but it has little or no gain to speak of. Could I co-phase a few of these? How about if I had four 10 dB gain yagi's stacked with each one being pointed about 40 degrees over from the one below it in a "spread" barber-pole type pattern. Anyone played with this? What about 2 corner reflectors mounted wing-to-wing to cover the valley floor? I know someone out there has had a similar problem, I would appreciate hearing your solutions/suggestions. Thanks, Mike Groves (KD6PKJ) From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:40 1996 From: graham@southlin.demon.co.uk (Graham Seale) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: HI-Q antenna Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:41:27 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <19960214.104127.85@southlin.demon.co.uk> References: <47432@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org> Reply-To: graham@southlin.demon.co.uk In article <47432@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org>, 44.42.200.20@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org wrote: > I am looking for information on antennas with extremely narrow bandwidth > for use on a dual frequency packet setup. All antennas I have seen aim > for the maximum bandwidth possible. I am looking for the minimum bandwidth > possible, for a single frequency. A duplexer has been considered, but I > don't think it is a $$$ option. > > I tried a full wave loop, but the bandwidth was 4 MHz, even with magnet wir e. > I'm trying to run a gateway, but rx blanking occurs, even 2 MHz away. > Ideally, I'd like to run 145.07 and 145.79 together for the APRS crowd. > What I'm aiming for is 1200 baud on 145.07 and 9600 baud on 147.57 as a > dual entry gateway into internet. > > I have worked with a loop antenna for hf operation(MFJ) which has a width > of only 30 khz. All 2m antennas I have seen are at least a few MHz on > average. The hf loop is a natural filter, and rejects all nearby signals, > even 100 khz away. The hf loop runs a Q of 50 to 500 depending on the band . > > I have considered building a scale version of the loop, but I don't know if > the capacitor is increased or decreased in value. My ignorance is showing. > > 73 de Tom S. > aa5mt@gate.kc5aug.ampr.org A past RadCom (uk) article I recall describes the use of collinear elements mounted in a vertical line, one directly over the other. I don't have detail on the separation, but apparently done by putting a little signal into one while listening the other, then move the lower one about in the null to get optimum lowest coupling. I don't recall the numbers, but the coupling loss was useful enough to allow the use of fewer cavity filters in the diplexer. You will need to ensure two things are right. a) The amount of unwanted Tx that couples back into your Rx (even if shifted by 720kHz) must not cause the front end stages to go non-linear and act as a mixer, giving a huge crowd of unwanted sigs going thru the Rx as if they were legit. b) The (conflicting) requirement that the insertion loss of any filtering in the receiver path, to reject the unwanted Tx, does not also make the receiver deaf. The limit of what it can hear is decided by the front end noise figure. Cable and filter loss add directly to that figure. The guys with the collinears did not want to put in yet another cavity filter because of cost and rig deafness, so they exploited the null. (70cm kit) 73's -- Graham Seale From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:41 1996 From: Bob Wilson Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:14:59 -0800 Message-ID: <3122B343.56D9@ix.netcom.com> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> WB7ASR wrote: > > What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? > What tool would best be used to make the hole? > > WB7ASR... Tom, A 3/4" hole is the typical requirement...although other "special" bases are available...such as 3/8". A 3/4" hole saw on an electric drill has worked just fine for the dozen or so I've installed. You just have to be mindful of the headliner! Good Luck Bob Wilson WA4PUJ From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:42 1996 From: doneal@tcac.com (Dave O'Neal) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 17 Feb 1996 17:23:02 GMT Message-ID: <4g52tm$had@jupiter.tcac.com> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4friof$gm8@boris.eden.com> In article <4friof$gm8@boris.eden.com>, jmb@eden.com says... > >tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wrote: > >>What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? 3/4" >>What tool would best be used to make the hole? If possible, use a 3/4" hole saw with a stop (available through larsen). This will keep you from dropping the bit into the head- liner. Also, before you drill, LOOK UNDERNEATH! Usual access is via dome lamp. Make sure that you are not drilling on top of a support beam. Make sure that the head liner and wires are out of the way. Make sure there is a path for your coax... some cabs have a double metal roof or other obstacles. Remember that the hole is PERMANENT... make sure it's where you want it. good luck From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:43 1996 From: "Mark Herson, N2MH" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 17 Feb 1996 20:47:49 GMT Message-ID: <4g5etl$bp7@uucp.intac.com> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4friof$gm8@boris.eden.com> jmb@eden.com (John Bradley/KK5MH) wrote: >tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wrote: > >>What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? >>What tool would best be used to make the hole? > >>WB7ASR... > >I used a 3/4" hole saw with a built-in pilot drill. The instructions >are included with the NMO mount. I recommend using a high quality saw >to avoid messing up the car. > >73, >John > An even better suggestion is a 3/4" Greenlee hole punch. Makes really nice clean holes for NMO mounts. 73, Mark From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:44 1996 From: Rod Dinkins Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 17 Feb 1996 18:26:32 GMT Message-ID: <4g56ko$l15@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4friof$gm8@boris.eden.com> <4g52tm$had@jupiter.tcac.com> To: doneal@tcac.com I agree with the hole saw comment. DO NOT USE A PUNCH such as Greenlee it will buckle the sheet metal -- I know I did it,\.%#@*&% not bad tho Hi Hi Using these mounts gets a nice ground plane for the antenna. I use a 1/4 wave around town (low garage door) and a 5/8 while travelling. Good sawing Rod -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:45 1996 From: woodybozak@aol.com (Woodybozak) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 19 Feb 1996 15:18:30 -0500 Message-ID: <4galum$1a7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <3128B8A6.58F2@intermediainc.com> Reply-To: woodybozak@aol.com (Woodybozak) The NMO nut makes "no (electrical) connection to the vehicle body"??? An o-ring flattens out when compressed. Thus, the brass nut does indeed make a good electrical connection to the vehicle, from the OUTSIDE, if the 1/16" ring of paint/primer is removed by use of the proper hole saw (or carefully removed by some other means). The teeth of the underside mount are, as you indicated, required to keep the mount from spinning when the brass nut is tightened. However, when Motorola engineers developed the NMO mounting system, they recognized that the underside of automobile roofs, fenders, trunk lids, etc., are often corroded, coated with oils and other compounds from the die-stamping process at the factory, so they needed a way to ensure positive electrical connection would be possible from the OUTSIDE of the vehicle. The o-ring will not only compress and facilitate an electrical connection, but the o-ring also will protect the grounding area (now bare paint) from rust, etc., as the o-ring is on the outside of the grounding area! Good job, Motorola. As a side note, the 3/8" NLA mount can be used with NMO antennas by use of an NLA/NMO adapter ring (if they're still available). From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:47 1996 From: "Richard G. Slavens" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 19 Feb 1996 06:49:39 GMT Message-ID: <4g96i3$ma2@taz.napanet.net> References: <199602180646.WAA22627@mail.ucsd.edu> <31275EDC.3330@ideanet.doe.state.in.us> I agree with John, the Motorola antenna tool is the best way to go. Try one and be prepared for a easy installation. It will also scrape away a small ring of paint for a good antenna ground connection. You might be able to borrow/rent one from a local Commercial Radio shop. 73, Dick WA6TMF ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gianotti@ideanet.doe.state.IN.US (John Gianotti) wrote: >And now to add my 2 cents worth. The best way (IMHO) to drill the 3/4" >hole for an NMO antenna mount is with a genuine Motorola hole saw. This >nifty device combines a hole saw with a colar that prevents you from >going through the headliner of the car when the saw punches through. Get >on from a Motorola Service Center (but be prepared to pay). Best idea is >get your club to buy one they can loan to members. >-- > ____. .__ > | | ____ | |__ ____ > | |/ _ \| | \ / \ >/\__| ( <_> ) Y \ | \ >\________|\____/|___| /___| / > \/ \/ > __________________________________________________________ >| John L. Gianotti KF9GW gianotti@ideanet.doe.state.in.us| >| Dir Computer Services VOICE: (219) 365-8551 x260| >| Lake Central School Corp. FAX: (219) 365-6414 | >|__________________________________________________________| > From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:48 1996 From: ka9nyn@ix.netcom.com(David R. Mohr ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 17 Feb 1996 03:44:13 GMT Message-ID: <4g3iud$2l2@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <3122B343.56D9@ix.netcom.com> In <3122B343.56D9@ix.netcom.com> Bob Wilson writes: > >WB7ASR wrote: >> >> What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? >> What tool would best be used to make the hole? >> >> WB7ASR... > >Tom, > A 3/4" hole is the typical requirement...although other "special" >bases are available...such as 3/8". > > A 3/4" hole saw on an electric drill has worked just fine for the >dozen or so I've installed. You just have to be mindful of the >headliner! > >Good Luck > >Bob Wilson >WA4PUJ A 3/4" Greenlee Chassis punch works well also. From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:49 1996 From: burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com (Bruce Burke) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 20 Feb 1996 13:41:41 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gcj2l$ju6@brokaw.comm.mot.com> References: <14c_9602181355@woodybbs.com> Reply-To: burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com In article 9602181355@woodybbs.com, Chris.Boone@f4267.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Chr is Boone) writes: } }a PUNCH will distort the metal around the hole.....and the mount may never }seat correctly....causing water leaks etc.... } }73 }Chris }-- }|Fidonet: Chris Boone 1:106/4267 }|Internet: Chris.Boone@f4267.n106.z1.fidonet.org }| }| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. } That is incorrect. The design of the punch prevents this as the metal is supported around the outside perimeter of the hole being punched. Actually, if it didn't, you wouldn't have a punch. If the metal becomes distorted, it is because the user of the punch has placed a lateral force on it deflecting the punch from a perpendicular position to the metal being punched. If the punch is damaged or worn out, that too could warp the metal being punch ed. Like any other tool, it must be in good shape. Greenlee punches are especially nice because they have a beveled punch. This design makes it act more like a shear than a punch, ensuring the metal isn't stretched by the punching action. 73, Bruce From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:51 1996 From: Ginsberg Family Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 19 Feb 1996 23:45:38 GMT Message-ID: <4gb232$vib@netport.com> References: <4fr4nm$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4friof$gm8@boris.eden.com> <31248BBC.41C67EA6@xyplex.com> To: tom_boza@com.ch.intel.com Gary Thorburn wrote: >John Bradley/KK5MH wrote: >> >> tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wrote: >> >> >What is the hole size is required for the Larson NMO antenna mount? >> >What tool would best be used to make the hole? >> >> >WB7ASR... >> >> I used a 3/4" hole saw with a built-in pilot drill. The instructions >> are included with the NMO mount. I recommend using a high quality saw >> to avoid messing up the car. >> >> 73, >> John > >Best tool is a "Greelee Punch", 3/4-inch size. Nice, Neat job, you >just drill a pilot hole first. However, the "punch" only works >if you have access to both sides of the metal you are cutting >thru, for example if you can drop the dome lite and access >the inside. > >/**** >* Gary W. Thorburn KD1TE >* email address: gthorburn@xyplex.com >****/ If you have acces to top and bottom you need not drill a 3/4 inch hole there are NMO fittings that I purchased that only require a 3/8 hole, I used one and they work fine. I purchased mine at the Queen Mary convention but there are other source I am sure if you check around. A 3/8 inch hole can be done with not much more effort then the pilot for larger 3/4 inch NMO Hope that helps. Ed Ginsberg KE6BNL From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:52 1996 From: Zack Lau Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Horizontal Omni Antenna Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:30:41 -0500 Message-ID: <312B3AA1.FBB@arrl.org> Horizontal Omni Antenna References in QST The Big Wheel on Two Sept 1961 pp 42-45 Three full wave loops--one of the best mobile performers. The Two-Meter Eggbeater April 1971 pp 44-46 Originally for 2M mobile, now popular for satellite work. No, the authors didn't analyze its satellite performance. 10 GHz Omni Slot antenna March 1983 p. 73 Simple phased array using WR-90 waveguide. Reprints are available from the ARRL Technical Department Secretary ($3/article/issue, $5/article/issue for non-members.) From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:53 1996 From: "C. J. Hawley" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 12:16:06 -0600 Message-ID: <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: > > In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wri tes: > >How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming > >when in use? > > > >Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of it , measure > the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the pow er > out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. > > 73's WD9AHF - JimWell, the wattmeter wil l have to work at the output impedance of the tuner....... Did anyone read the series of articles last year on tuner losses? Some of the comments posted here are contrary to the findings of the author. One that comes to mind is that the loss is independent of the impedance being matched. The articles usually s howed that losses were greater for the same SWR when the impedance of the load was low ra ther than high. The author, Frank Witt AI1H, used the fact that the SWR measured at the input of a tuner with loss will not correctly report the mismatch at it's output. The los ses are proportional to the error in the reported SWR. For example, he adjusts a tuner to 1:1 for a 100 ohm load. Then he replaces the load with a 50 ohm load, and then a 2 00 ohm load. The deviation of the SWR from 2:1 in both cases is due to the loss in th e tuner. Read the articles April,May 1995. What do you guys think? -- Charles Jack Hawley Jr. Amateur Radio KE9UW (A.K.A. 'Chuck' in Ham Radio) BMW K100RS, BMWMOA #224 (A.K.A. 'Jack' in Motorcycles) hawley@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Sr. Research Engineer Emeritus Univ of Ill, Urbana-Champaign From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:54 1996 From: "Tom V. Pfaffenbach" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 19 Feb 1996 21:05:17 GMT Distribution: usa Message-ID: <4gaomd$b2v@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> To: tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com Hi Tom; An easy way is to use an RF ammeter and a resistive dummy load. Tune your transmitter into the load directly and set it for highest reading on the ammeter. P=I*I*R. Now go thru your coupler and tune again for maximum ammeter reading. Again P=I*I*R. P1-P2=lOSS. We are assuming that your best power output occurs at approximately the same power input level, in both cases. Generally this is valid, but you can also verify the input level independently. It is important that you make the measurements with a resistive load. DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF YOU FIND LOSSES IN THE ORDER OF 15-30%. Happy DXing 73-K9JDU From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:56 1996 From: cunliffe@frontiernet.net (John R. Cunliffe) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 02:35:09 GMT Message-ID: <4gbc12$1rh4@cheatum.frontiernet.net> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4gaomd$b2v@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> Reply-To: cunliffe@frontiernet.net "Tom V. Pfaffenbach" wrote: >Hi Tom; >An easy way is to use an RF ammeter and a resistive dummy load. Tune your >transmitter into the load directly and set it for highest reading on the >ammeter. P=I*I*R. >Now go thru your coupler and tune again for maximum ammeter reading. >Again P=I*I*R. P1-P2=lOSS. >We are assuming that your best power output occurs at approximately the >same power input level, in both cases. Generally this is valid, but you >can also verify the input level independently. It is important that you >make the measurements with a resistive load. >DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF YOU FIND LOSSES IN THE ORDER OF 15-30%. >Happy DXing 73-K9JDU Well guys, I do matching for a living. I generally tune loads from 15 to 2000 ohms and with phase angles from 0 to +- 88 deg. As a rule of thumb.... the lower the impedance is and the higher the phase angle the higher the loss. Now... there is one exception for that. EVERY load can be matched with reasonable low loss ( abt 10-15 %) if the tuner is built with high quality components AND the tune range is small. Generally there is an inverse relationship between efficiency and tunerange. The larger the tunerange is the lower the efficiency for a given frequency. The closer the phase angle is to 0 deg the lower the loss is. So it is no problem to tune a 10 ohm 0 deg load with a wide tune range tuner and get reasonable low loss. But as soon as the phase angle changes from 0 deg the loss will rise very fast . We have a auto tuner for 13.56 mhz in our program that tunes from 10 ohm -89deg to 2000 ohm +60deg and everything in between. The average loss is around 50% and can go up to 70%;a lot of heat for a 1kW tuner. We also have tuners that have only 10% loss but a very narrow tune range. For the average ham tuner I have measured everything from 5-15% in to "nice" loads to 50% loss into short 160 and 80m verticals. The best way to find out is to calculate the exact impedance for a given frequency of interest and build a "load simulator " for this frequency with capacitors or coils and using a 50 ohm load to take the power. With this you could then measure the power into the tuner and also measure the power into the 50 ohm loss. A program like ECA (TM) could be used to do this. ===================================== John R. Cunliffe N2NEP cunliffe@frontiernet.net http://www.frontiernet.net/~cunliffe From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:57 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: mai@iquest.net (Patrick Croft) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:39:29 GMT "C. J. Hawley" wrote: >macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: >> >> In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wr ites: >> >How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming >> >when in use? >> > >> >Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of i t, measure >> the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the po wer >> out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. >> >> 73's WD9AHF - JimWell, the wattmeter wi ll have to work at the output impedance of the tuner....... >Did anyone read the series of articles last year on tuner losses? Some of the comments >posted here are contrary to the findings of the author. One that comes to min d is that >the loss is independent of the impedance being matched. The articles usually showed that >losses were greater for the same SWR when the impedance of the load was low r ather than >high. The author, Frank Witt AI1H, used the fact that the SWR measured at the input of a >tuner with loss will not correctly report the mismatch at it's output. The lo sses are >proportional to the error in the reported SWR. For example, he adjusts a tune r to 1:1 >for a 100 ohm load. Then he replaces the load with a 50 ohm load, and then a 200 ohm >load. The deviation of the SWR from 2:1 in both cases is due to the loss in t he tuner. >Read the articles April,May 1995. What do you guys think? >-- > > >Charles Jack Hawley Jr. >Amateur Radio KE9UW (A.K.A. 'Chuck' in Ham Radio) >BMW K100RS, BMWMOA #224 (A.K.A. 'Jack' in Motorcycles) >hawley@aries.scs.uiuc.edu >Sr. Research Engineer Emeritus >Univ of Ill, Urbana-Champaign > > Chuck - One small hint needed - April and May of which publication? Patrick WB9IQI From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:57:59 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 20 Feb 1996 16:15:04 GMT Message-ID: <4gcs28$srg@news.ios.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com In <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu>, "C. J. Hawley" writes: >macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: >> >> In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wr ites: >> >How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming >> >when in use? >> > >> >Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of i t, measure >> the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the po wer >> out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. >> >> 73's WD9AHF - JimWell, the wattmeter wi ll have to work at the output impedance of the tuner....... >Did anyone read the series of articles last year on tuner losses? Some of the comments >posted here are contrary to the findings of the author. One that comes to min d is that >the loss is independent of the impedance being matched. The articles usually showed that >losses were greater for the same SWR when the impedance of the load was low r ather than >high. The author, Frank Witt AI1H, used the fact that the SWR measured at the input of a >tuner with loss will not correctly report the mismatch at it's output. The lo sses are >proportional to the error in the reported SWR. For example, he adjusts a tune r to 1:1 >for a 100 ohm load. Then he replaces the load with a 50 ohm load, and then a 200 ohm >load. The deviation of the SWR from 2:1 in both cases is due to the loss in t he tuner. >Read the articles April,May 1995. What do you guys think? >-- > > >Charles Jack Hawley Jr. >Amateur Radio KE9UW (A.K.A. 'Chuck' in Ham Radio) >BMW K100RS, BMWMOA #224 (A.K.A. 'Jack' in Motorcycles) >hawley@aries.scs.uiuc.edu >Sr. Research Engineer Emeritus >Univ of Ill, Urbana-Champaign > > Hi again, I think you are complicating a pretty basic problem. Why not just put a non reactive load that matches what you think is your feed point impedance and measure Current and voltage there, and back at the transmitter, again using a non reactive load do the same. If the two power readings don't match, that's the loss. Did you ever build an amplifier and tune the inductor for the maxim um efficiency? Maybe I've landed in the middle of a thread that I don't know wh ats gone on before, but I can't see what your hung up on. Sorry Jim From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:02 1996 From: "C. J. Hawley" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:10:16 -0600 Message-ID: <312B43E8.736E@uiuc.edu> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> Patrick Croft wrote: > > "C. J. Hawley" wrote: > >macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: > >> > >> In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) writes: > >> >How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming > >> >when in use? > >Did anyone read the series of articles last year on tuner losses? Some of t he comments > >posted here are contrary to the findings of the author. One that comes to m ind is that > >the loss is independent of the impedance being matched. The articles usuall y showed that > >losses were greater for the same SWR when the impedance of the load was low rather than > >high. The author, Frank Witt AI1H, used the fact that the SWR measured at t he input of a > >tuner with loss will not correctly report the mismatch at it's output. The losses are > >proportional to the error in the reported SWR. For example, he adjusts a tu ner to 1:1 > >for a 100 ohm load. Then he replaces the load with a 50 ohm load, and then a 200 ohm > >load. The deviation of the SWR from 2:1 in both cases is due to the loss in the tuner. > >Read the articles April,May 1995. What do you guys think? > >-- > Chuck - > One small hint needed - April and May of which publication? > > Patrick WB9IQI Sorry! It was QST. Chuck, KE9UW From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:04 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: I need hf wire antenna help......... Message-ID: <1996Feb17.185333.22870@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4fqp6d$m6t@louie.disney.com> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 18:53:33 GMT In article <4fqp6d$m6t@louie.disney.com> Jim Markle writes: > >Briefly (cw version): Can I add coils of wire to a tuner/ladderline fed >dipole to increase wire lenght and thus performance on 75M without hurting >10M-40M? Yes. Add the loading coils to each end of the dipole. Allow about 6 feet of wire to dangle beyond the coils for adjusting resonance on 75 meters. The coils will have negligible effects on operation on the higher bands. You can add stubs for each of the other bands so that the dipole looks resonant on them too. This was the basis of the famous Lattin antenna. It can be coax fed, no tuner required 80 thru 10. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:05 1996 From: Jeff Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: ICOM INFO. NEEDED Date: 17 Feb 1996 00:33:09 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4g37o5$h15@atlas.uniserve.com> My friend located a very good deal on a Icom 740 and it has the WARC bands marked on the band selector but after a look through the owners manual is says for recieve only ( on 17 & 12 mtrs.) I`ve looked at radio TX mods around the net and they seem to jump from the Icom 735 right to the 751. Does anyone know if you can do the mod on the 740 so it will work on the WARC bands ? This radio is a good deal only if its workable on 12 and 17. Can anyone help ? THANKS Jeff From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:06 1996 From: kg0wx@southwind.net (Ken Bessler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Information abouth propagation in 27MHz (11metros) Date: 16 Feb 1996 13:24:38 GMT Message-ID: <4g20im$54h@opal.southwind.net> References: In article , Eduardo Luiz Barbin says: > > >Helo all, > > I am from Brasil, state of Sao Paulo, city Ribeirao Preto. > I am to make amatheur radio in 27MHz and I lake to know >information abouth propagation. > >Tanks! We are currently approaching the lowest period of sunspot activity in 11 years.The conditions on 27 Mhz won't improve untill summertime and won't really be great untill the summer of 2000! If you want good DX, then I suggest you drop the toy radio stuff, get a Ham license and some real equipment and call me on 14.185..... Good luck! KG0WX From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:06 1996 From: Eduardo Luiz Barbin Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Information abouth propagation in 27MHz (11metros) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 19:31:47 -0300 Message-ID: Helo all, I am from Brasil, state of Sao Paulo, city Ribeirao Preto. I am to make amatheur radio in 27MHz and I lake to know information abouth propagation. Tanks! From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:07 1996 From: Jeff Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Information abouth propagation in 27MHz (11metros) Date: 17 Feb 1996 00:41:55 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4g388j$h15@atlas.uniserve.com> Start looking for propagation on this band near the end of 1997 Things will be slow until then.I know this was`nt your question but " oh well ". From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:08 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Kinda disappointed Date: 18 Feb 1996 01:44:45 GMT Message-ID: <4g60ad$qgb@news.ios.com> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com A couple of weeks ago, I posted 'free software' in this category. The program: TEEREV.ZIP is on the ARRL BBS. I was looking for a little feedback as to wheth er the program was worthwhile or not. I guess that's relative considering it's 'f ree'. The program although only taking 4 seconds to download, Calculates Effective Radiated power, SWR, loss, at varying feedline types, length of run, Input pow er, antenna gain, and reflected power. To date, I have received exactly 0 (nada, z ip, nil,zilch) responses. Has anybody even tried it? Jim WD9AHF From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:09 1996 From: tuckertf@aol.com (TuckerTF) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Marine SSB antenna help!! Date: 19 Feb 1996 02:04:32 -0500 Message-ID: <4g97e0$h5c@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: tuckertf@aol.com (TuckerTF) I wish to use one of the backstays on my 42' sailboat as a marine SSB antenna. I have gotten conflicting answers to several questions. One person says I need 2 insulators, top & bottom, and 35' between. The other says only one insulator, bottom, to insure people don't touch antenna portion, and based on transmitting freqs, the upper portion of the backstay needs to be >23 feet. Both say I need considerable copper screen connected by copper foil low down in boat for counterpoise...help??? TuckerTF From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:10 1996 From: graham@southlin.demon.co.uk (Graham Seale) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: monoband/triband separation ??? Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:26:51 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <19960214.102651.96@southlin.demon.co.uk> References: <199602132241.PAA22518@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU> Reply-To: graham@southlin.demon.co.uk In message <199602132241.PAA22518@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU> Louise Carkenord wrote: > > > My friend Quinlan, W0GLG, wants me to ask the group > a question. He has an 80 foot tower erected over poor > ground (decomposed granite). > He can mount a beam at 80 feet and another beam 6 feet > lower. That is, beams will be separated by 6 feet. > He has a 10/15/20 tribander and he has a 40M monobander. > Given above data, which he says he will not change...... > which antenna should be on top?? > Should he have the monobander at 80 feet and the tribander > at 74 feet??? > Should he have the tribander at 80 feet and the monobander > at 74 feet??? He lives in Colorado and is a dx chaser. > Tnx.....Lee KA0FPJ 80 feet is about 24 metres. The tribander's lowest wavelength is 20m. The tribander would not care if it were mounted a bit lower. The wave would launch at a satisfactory low angle. The 40m antenna, being so large, cannot be mounted at a similar fraction of its wavelength high, but you do the best you can and put it at the top. There may be good mechanical reasons not to do this, and DX or not, I am not sure anyone would notice it on their S-Meter! -- Graham Seale From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:12 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: davek@medphys.ucl.ac.uk (Dave Kirkby) Subject: Re: need : a Yagi Antenna design program for 4 Message-ID: <1996Feb15.165726.15325@ucl.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:57:26 GMT Reply-To: davek@medphys.ucl.ac.uk References: <4fsjq3$4pd@hades.omen.com.au> In article 4pd@hades.omen.com.au, worf@omen.com.au (Klingon Empire) writes: > Greetings, > I am in desperate need of a Yagi antenna design program for the > frequency of 477 Mhz preferably between 8 to 23 elements and folded > dipole fed. If you have any info please Email me.... > > thankyou for taking the time to read this message... > > > regards worf@omen.com.au > I have written something that can design, analyse and optimise a Yagi. Its kno wn as the YagiUda project and can be ftp'ed from medphys.ucl.ac.uk in the directory /pub/users/davek/YagiUda Look for a file yagiu109.zip. You should f ind some DOS executables as well as source code which will compile under DOS or un ix systems. The optimiser needs a bit of work and is likely to be slow with 23 elements, b ut the only limits are on time and memory size. I have analysed a 500 element bea m. --- Dave Kirkby Dept of Medical Physics, University College London, 11-20 Capper St, London WC1E 6JA Tel: 0171-209 6406 Fax: 0171-209 6269 From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:13 1996 From: David Nulton Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Need Contact for Don Johnson RE: Screwdriver Antenna Date: 19 Feb 1996 16:29:36 GMT Message-ID: <4ga8hg$k9a@alterdial.UU.NET> If anyone knows an email address, snail mail address, phone number, callsign, anything...please forward. I want to enquire about his "screwdriver antenna" design. 73s de KI5XW From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:13 1996 From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Need Contact for Don Johnson RE: Screwdriver Antenna Date: 19 Feb 1996 22:27:00 GMT Message-ID: <4gatfk$cba@ionews.ionet.net> References: <4ga8hg$k9a@alterdial.UU.NET> To: dnult@axiom.net David Nulton wrote: >If anyone knows an email address, snail mail address, phone >number, callsign, anything...please forward. I want to enquire >about his "screwdriver antenna" design. > >73s >de KI5XW > Callsign is W6AAQ. 73 Hank WA5JRH From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:14 1996 From: bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonneau) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Optimum VHF QTH Date: 20 Feb 1996 19:42:53 GMT Message-ID: <4gd87t$235@ulowell.uml.edu> Hi there, I am interested in setting up a nice VHF station up in Vermont in the nea r future. I was thinking of trying to build a house on the largest reasonable hill I could find, and set up a tower with some long boom yagis set-up in 2 x 2 fashion for at least 2m and 440 to start. I am especially interested in DX on these bands, and taking advantage of band openings. In order to do this, is a large hill the optimum location? Or is a high tower and good beams all you need, regardless of your elevation abo ve sea level? I would greatly appreciate any VHF'ers or anyone's response and any help that you can give. Thanks in advance! Brad NZ1Y From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:15 1996 From: Tim Brown Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PC interferes with TV Date: 19 Feb 1996 10:55:48 GMT Message-ID: <4g9kvk$k23@twizzler.callamer.com> References: <4f2iis$ve@news-e2a.gnn.com> <4f2vr1$e18@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> jdc@cci.com (James D. Cronin) wrote: > > In article <4f2vr1$e18@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, > Richard MacDonald wrote: > >On Sun, 04 Feb 1996 10:12:53, PDelpriore@gnn.com (Paul Del Priore) wrote: > > > >>When I use my computer, if someone else is watching TV using off > >>air antenna annoying interference is present on TV, mostly channels > >>2,4,5. > >>... > > >Paul: > > > >1. Check that your computer is FCC Class B certified (home use). If not you may > >not be able to cure the problems. > > All of them are, but there are companies that actually (oh no!) cheat. Dial > into the FCC BBS (don't remember the number, call a field office) and check. > My 486 DX2/66 had the FCC number from a 386. > > 73..Jim N2VNO From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:16 1996 From: Tim Brown Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PC interferes with TV Date: 19 Feb 1996 11:00:27 GMT Message-ID: <4g9l8b$k23@twizzler.callamer.com> References: <4f2iis$ve@news-e2a.gnn.com> <4f2vr1$e18@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> jdc@cci.com (James D. Cronin) wrote: > > In article <4f2vr1$e18@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, > Richard MacDonald wrote: > >On Sun, 04 Feb 1996 10:12:53, PDelpriore@gnn.com (Paul Del Priore) wrote: > > > >>When I use my computer, if someone else is watching TV using off > >>air antenna annoying interference is present on TV, mostly channels > >>2,4,5. > >>... > > >Paul: > > > >1. Check that your computer is FCC Class B certified (home use). If not you may > >not be able to cure the problems. > > All of them are, but there are companies that actually (oh no!) cheat. Dial > into the FCC BBS (don't remember the number, call a field office) and check. > My 486 DX2/66 had the FCC number from a 386. > > 73..Jim N2VNO Paul: With the t.v. and computer both on, unplug your mouse. I recently purchased an inexpensive (cheap) mouse due to desireable shape and features. Unfortunately, it bled RF interference as far away as the guest house t.v. 30 feet away! Stick with "name brands" and you should have no problem. Even if your mouse is a good one, heavy use may have caused a break down in its ability to insulate against RF bleed. Good Luck! From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:17 1996 From: "Ken (KC6TEU)" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Phasing Two Quagi's on 446.1 Date: 16 Feb 1996 18:32:14 GMT Message-ID: <4g2ije$ecf@fmsu03.fm.intel.com> References: st90004@jaguar1.USouthal.EDU (Craig A. Warnol (KB5UEJ)) wrote: >How would I go about making an array with two 8 element >quagis on 446.1? I have two of them and would like >to put both of them up. Is the proper way of doing this >to use 1/4 wave 75 ohm coax to one antenna and a 3/4 wave >75 ohm coax to the second, and have 1 wavelength separation >at the feedpoint. They are going to be vertical polarized >so I know the feed should be in the center of the vertical >side of the drive element. Also what about a balun. The >author in the ARRL antenna handbook states any balun he >added only introduced problems. Can anyone give me any advise??? > >73 de Craig (KB5UEJ) >st90004@jaguar1.usouthal.edu --- I-net E-mail >kb5uej@maf.wa4wbi.ampr.org --- AMPRnet E-mail >KB5UEJ@WA4WBI.#MOBAL.AL.USA.NOAM --- packet E-mail > Craig, I've done exactly what your doing years ago. Use a 5 turn loop of rg58 type coax about 2.5 inches in dia. I had used the radio shack stuff for this as connectors were allready connected. Without this you will find the SWR moving around as the antenna moves. As for the 75 ohm coax, use odd 1/4 wave lengths for each leg of the antenna. I don't think your idea will work, use 3/4 wave lengths for each matching section. The results... It worked on the frequency that I was using but accross the FM portion of the band the SWR was up and down depending on the frequency. With about 35 mW (yes thats 0.035 watts, I was hitting the repeater I wanted to get into reliably in all seasons with good audio -- and it was 75 miles away and I was behind a dirt hill of about 150 feet. Good Fun... 73, Ken KC6TEU - CM98LQ From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:19 1996 From: brienzi@uniserve.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Problems with reception using TV antenna in vertical plane Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 02:34:47 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <31253de9.3577027@news> I know this isn't a HAM antenna question but.... This is what I have done: 1. Mounted my TV antenna that was on our roof in the vertical plane. (the muffler shop bent the tube for no charge) 2. Hooked a matching transformer to the antenna 3. Used RG6/U cable to run to a F-BNC adapter, which I hooked to my scanner (AOR AR1500). Now the problem, when I use my RS telescopic, I can get the 46-50MHz chatter no prob. When I switch to the roof top antenna, I lose them--just static. I live in a semi-rural area and I would have thought that the TV antenna in the vertical plane should have increased my reception? Could the antenna be not working (it came with the house), is the AR1500 just a crappy scanner... ...I'm baffled-- it seems that everyone else gets way better reception with TV antennae. I am keeping my eyes peeled for a 2006 anyways--if that will even help. I have pulled that antenna down so many times now, I'm sure I'm due to drop it off the roof soon. I have an Archerator too--turning it hasn't helped yet. Right now I want to get the most range in the 46-50 MHz range. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. brienzi@uniserve.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:20 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 18 Feb 1996 06:49:41 -0500 Message-ID: <4g73ol$nf9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4g3j98$83i@cloner3.netcom.com> Hi Gary, In article <1996Feb17.183221.22593@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) writes: >There *is* a standard (two of them actually), but unfortunately >most amateur gear doesn't adhere to it. An S-unit is defined as >6 db, and S9 is defined as 50 uV across 50 ohms at the receiver >input. (The second standard is for VHF where S9 is equal to 5uV.) > If most (actually ALL current production ) amateur gear doesn't adhere to it, what makes it a standard? Is there a professional reference book that defines the 6 dB standard? I can't find that "standard" in any of my reference books! 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:21 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 02:34:12 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4fsoi2$slr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> W8JI Tom writes: >Using six dB as an "S" unit is about like a surveyor using a "stones >throw" on a land map. As I said in the amplifier thread, people commonly >tell me my 1500 watt PA picks up 20 dB over a 90 watt exciter! Hi Tom, Note I reported a 2 'S' unit improvement, not a 12 dB improvement. Don't really know how many "Sterbies" improvement it was. Looks like "Sterbies" is going to stick thanks to Roy, W7EL. KNSterba gave Roy credit for it in this month's Worldradio and started using it himself. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:22 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 02:42:22 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <1996Feb12.225254.29664@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> JJ Martin writes: >- around the torriodal balun - does that mean I'm better off >changing it? I think you probably would be better off on a couple of bands if you fine tuned it like I did. I have distilled my homebrew tuner down to 4 switches, 3 toroids, and one variable cap all mounted on a piece of plexiglas at the operating position. I'm going to run some tests using a number of receivers and report the results. The contraption cost next to nothing and gives SWRs of less than 1.3:1 on all HF bands. The real advantage of my configuration is that the 4:1 balun sees nothing but 300 ohms resistive and there is no 50 ohm antenna tuner. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:23 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 02:29:08 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <1996Feb11.215217.23429@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4fokfv$poa@usenet.pa.dec.com> <4fsaho$3pt@maureen.teleport.com> Roy Lewallen writes: >What would you like it to be? Sorry, Cecil, the statement that one tuner is >"two S-units better" than the other is seriously lacking in information >content. Hi Roy, you're right, but that's the only information content that I have except N5AQM said I was a lot louder with one configuration. On 20m where there is no terrific mismatch, the configurations were equal on the 'S' meter. On 75m where there is a terrific mismatch adding two toroids in series at the proper point resulted in better performance than an antenna tuner. We will run the experiment with a number of receivers next time. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:24 1996 From: burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com (Bruce Burke) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 15 Feb 1996 13:17:06 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4fvboi$gfq@brokaw.comm.mot.com> References: <4fsoi2$slr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com In article slr@newsbf02.news.aol.com, w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) writes: }In article , Cecil Moore } writes: } } }Could be two dB also Ceil. Why does does "six" keep coming back? Someone }please drive a stake through it's heart! } }Using six dB as an "S" unit is about like a surveyor using a "stones }throw" on a land map. } }73 Tom Well Tom, It goes like this. Since the meter is calibrated in microVOLTS, 6dB/S-Unit would mean you have twice the signal power differential per S-Unit. 73, Bruce From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:25 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 16 Feb 1996 09:27:02 -0500 Message-ID: <4g247m$o92@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <5JHKy4Y.cecilmoore@delphi.com> Hi Cecil, I think you have to be careful with this test! In article <5JHKy4Y.cecilmoore@delphi.com>, Cecil Moore writes: > >N5AQM and I just ran the signal strength measurements in a (hopefully) >more acceptable way. Using an MFJ-949 into a 4:1 balun into the ladder- >line, I was S9 with 100w into the tuner. Taking the output of the >transmitter directly into the 4:1 balun into the ladder-line with two >series toroids (17 uH each) I was S9 with 30w into the balun. Sounds >like the first configuration has about 5dB more loss than the second. What distance was he from you? How "sanitary" was his installation? If the common mode feedline current increased the groundwave signal signal also would have increased with almost no change in system efficiency. The best way to do the test is by measuring the differential current and common mode in the feedline!!!! Then there would be no guessing!l >In configuration number one, the same one that a lot of hams run, the >4:1 balun sees a 300-j800 ohm load. Assuming a perfect transformation, >the tuner sees a 75-j200 ohm load. I would guess the additional loss >is primarily in the balun. Do you agree. I don't. Did the balun temperature change? Can you measure the temp rise and do a dc test for the same rise and calculate the power dissipation for that temp rise? >In configuration number two, with the toroids in the ladder-line, the >4:1 balun sees a 300 ohm resistive load which is probably a low-loss >highly efficient point. Then nothing between the balun and the transmitter >except an SWR/power meter. When I switched over to this configuration >on 75m, my signal reports got a lot better. Same for 40m. No difference >on 20m betwee the tuner in or out. I expect things got a tiny bit better. The tuner probably lost 1/2 dB if it was tuned at an extreme of Q (much more L, much less C than needed) and the balun perhaps another fraction of a dB. I hope you use the more efficient 1:1 configuration in the tuner, and not the 4:1. Even knowing an S unit is *****NOT***** 6 dB (as some people keep insisting), I suspect something else went on. One dB I'll buy, more than that....no sale. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:26 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 16 Feb 1996 06:50:03 -0500 Message-ID: <4g1r1b$kdv@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4fvboi$gfq@brokaw.comm.mot.com> In article <4fvboi$gfq@brokaw.comm.mot.com>, burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com (Bruce Burke) writes: > >Well Tom, >It goes like this. Since the meter is calibrated in >microVOLTS, 6dB/S-Unit would mean you have twice the signal power >differential >per S-Unit. 3 dB change in voltage is 3 dB change in power. 3 dB change in power is 3 dB change in current. 3 dB change in current is 3 dB change in voltage. When it's voltage or current it's 20 log10 (ratio), when it's power it's 10 log10 (ratio). An "S" unit is not anything, because there never was a standard that came into common use. Even the dB scale on most "S" meters is pathetic. It's more dream than real. Years ago "S" stood for sorta'. If you were S7 and he was S9 I'd say you were sorta' louder. It sure as hell isn't 12 dB. The most recent use of S units is in "Sterba" units, an esoteric pedonecrobeastohomogrouchopheliac type of unit. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:27 1996 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 17:42:45 GMT Message-ID: <4fvr94$60m@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4fsoi2$slr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> In article <4fsoi2$slr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: ;. . . ;Using six dB as an "S" unit is about like a surveyor using a "stones ;throw" on a land map. As I said in the amplifier thread, people commonly ;tell me my 1500 watt PA picks up 20 dB over a 90 watt exciter! My ICOM will show just about exactly that. S9 to S9 + 20 is 12.9 dB on its meter. 6 dB isn't an S-Unit -- it's a "Sterby". So what should we call the "dB" above S9 on an S-meter? (Other than "wishful thinking. . .") Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:28 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Sat, 17 Feb 96 11:30:20 -0500 Message-ID: References: <5JHKy4Y.cecilmoore@delphi.com> <4g247m$o92@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4g3j98$83i@cloner3.netcom.com> David R. Mohr writes: > Ok, guys, if you don't like the design/layout/theory of operation >of this particular tuner, don't buy the kit or build the thing. > Don't you think you've beaten this thing to death already?? Hi Dave, you're right, the subject has broadened to tuners/baluns losses in general. It sure is easy to evolve from one subject to another without changing the thread title. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:29 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 22:08:48 -0500 Message-ID: <5JHKy4Y.cecilmoore@delphi.com> References: <4fsoi2$slr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4fvr94$60m@maureen.teleport.com> Roy Lewallen writes: >My ICOM will show just about exactly that. S9 to S9 + 20 is 12.9 dB on its >meter. 6 dB isn't an S-Unit -- it's a "Sterby". So what should we call the >"dB" above S9 on an S-meter? (Other than "wishful thinking. . .") Hi Roy, how about S10, S11, S12 etc. S9+18dB would be S12. Have you ever got an S12 report before? :-) N5AQM and I just ran the signal strength measurements in a (hopefully) more acceptable way. Using an MFJ-949 into a 4:1 balun into the ladder- line, I was S9 with 100w into the tuner. Taking the output of the transmitter directly into the 4:1 balun into the ladder-line with two series toroids (17 uH each) I was S9 with 30w into the balun. Sounds like the first configuration has about 5dB more loss than the second. In configuration number one, the same one that a lot of hams run, the 4:1 balun sees a 300-j800 ohm load. Assuming a perfect transformation, the tuner sees a 75-j200 ohm load. I would guess the additional loss is primarily in the balun. Do you agree. In configuration number two, with the toroids in the ladder-line, the 4:1 balun sees a 300 ohm resistive load which is probably a low-loss highly efficient point. Then nothing between the balun and the transmitter except an SWR/power meter. When I switched over to this configuration on 75m, my signal reports got a lot better. Same for 40m. No difference on 20m between the tuner in or out. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:30 1996 From: "C. J. Hawley" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner, balun losses, and accurate antenna measurements Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 12:19:46 -0600 Message-ID: <3128BF42.6AF@uiuc.edu> References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <4g26q0$14oo@chnews.ch.intel.com> James R. Duffey wrote: > > This thread on the QST auto tuner and losses in the tuner/balun system has g one on too long for me to ignore. I cannot resist commenting on several points ; > > 1. The place for a balun with a multiple band ladder line fed antenna is bet ween the tuner and the transmitter, not between the tuner and the antenna. The auto > ork fine in this configuration as well. > > 2. Accurate antenna measurements are not difficult to make, particularly whe n relative measurements are all that are required. Interpreting them does requ ire s > You may wish to make field strength readings at various locations in case t he feed line radiation is different in the two cases, and you probably want ha ms ac > them are given in the ARRL Antenna Anthology. RF ammeters in the output lin e should also give a good relative indication of the performance of different anten > rn more about their antenna. > > 3. The high radiation resistances and impedances which give the most problem s in matching can be significantly reduced by the paralleling of wires in the anten > urrents. More improvement can be obtained by using a third wire, but you beg in to get into the point of diminishing returns, that is, it is harder to keep the > will also improve the performance of the commonly used 3/2 wavelength on 20 meters antenna, also known as the G5RV, when used on other bands. > > Just my $0.02 worth. This has grown past my origninal intent and I have refr ained from starting another controversy by saying that my favorite multiple ba nd an > -Duffey KK6MC/5 What the heck kind of editor do you have? I can't even find the ends of the lines. -- Charles Jack Hawley Jr. Amateur Radio KE9UW (A.K.A. 'Chuck' in Ham Radio) BMW K100RS, BMWMOA #224 (A.K.A. 'Jack' in Motorcycles) hawley@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Sr. Research Engineer Emeritus Univ of Ill, Urbana-Champaign From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:32 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: mai@iquest.net (Patrick Croft) Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner, balun losses, and accurate antenna measurements Message-ID: References: <4g26q0$14oo@chnews.ch.intel.com> <3128BF42.6AF@uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:37:11 GMT "C. J. Hawley" wrote: >James R. Duffey wrote: >> >> This thread on the QST auto tuner and losses in the tuner/balun system has gone on too long for me to ignore. I cannot resist commenting on several point s; >> >> 1. The place for a balun with a multiple band ladder line fed antenna is be tween the tuner and the transmitter, not between the tuner and the antenna. Th e auto >> ork fine in this configuration as well. >> >> 2. Accurate antenna measurements are not difficult to make, particularly wh en relative measurements are all that are required. Interpreting them does req uire s >> You may wish to make field strength readings at various locations in case the feed line radiation is different in the two cases, and you probably want h ams ac >> them are given in the ARRL Antenna Anthology. RF ammeters in the output li ne should also give a good relative indication of the performance of different anten >> rn more about their antenna. >> >> 3. The high radiation resistances and impedances which give the most proble ms in matching can be significantly reduced by the paralleling of wires in the anten >> urrents. More improvement can be obtained by using a third wire, but you be gin to get into the point of diminishing returns, that is, it is harder to kee p the >> will also improve the performance of the commonly used 3/2 wavelength on 2 0 meters antenna, also known as the G5RV, when used on other bands. >> >> Just my $0.02 worth. This has grown past my origninal intent and I have ref rained from starting another controversy by saying that my favorite multiple b and an >> -Duffey KK6MC/5 > >What the heck kind of editor do you have? I can't even find >the ends of the lines. >-- > > >Charles Jack Hawley Jr. >Amateur Radio KE9UW (A.K.A. 'Chuck' in Ham Radio) >BMW K100RS, BMWMOA #224 (A.K.A. 'Jack' in Motorcycles) >hawley@aries.scs.uiuc.edu >Sr. Research Engineer Emeritus >Univ of Ill, Urbana-Champaign > > Chuck - You may need to open up your setup width. Many people are going to 17" or lar ger monitors, and with most news readers (I'm using News Express and a 17" - your post only abou t 25% width) allow wide spaces. It has been my understanding that one should attempt to maintain width of original sender, ie: hit the return key! 73 Patrick WB9IQI From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:34 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner, balun losses, and accurate antenna measurements Date: 20 Feb 1996 06:37:55 -0500 Message-ID: <4gcbqj$juc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4g73ol$nf9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Hi Jim, In article , ji3m@scubed.com (James R. Duffey) writes: >1. The place for a balun with a multiple band ladder line fed antenna is >between the tuner and the transmitter, not between the tuner and the antenna. >The auto tuner described in the QST article will work fine in this fashion. >Connect the ladder line to the tuner, don't ground the tuner, and feed the >tuner from the transmitter through a 1:1 transmission line balun. This >configuration should result in low losses if the tuner is not grounded and >kept at least 6 inches or so from ground. A manual tuner will w >ork fine in this configuration as well. We have to be careful here! If the tuner is a single ended tuner, or is "balanced" and has a floating common point, common mode impedance isn't transformed any appreciable amount. The common mode impedance remains essentially the same, and moving a balun to the tuner input does nothing to relieve common mode voltage problems or improve system balance. It does control differential mode voltages, but most of the time differential mode voltages aren't the real problem! With a properly designed choke balun, differential voltages aren't a problem at all and moving the balun to the input is a complete waste of time! >2. Accurate antenna measurements are not difficult to make, particularly when >relative measurements are all that are required. Interpreting them does >require some expertise however. <> I think that accurate methods of >making relative antenna performance measurements are available to nearly all >hams with a minimum of technical ability and a desire to lea >rn more about their antenna. Those suggestions work well with vertical antennas. I want to point out the horizontal component is attenuated rapidly by propagation along the earth, while any vertically polarized radiation (from the feedline) is attenuated **much** less. Accurate measurement of a horizontal antenna in the far field requires nothing short of a test range type system system that allows "direct wave propagation" measurements, and on low frequency bands accurate comparisons require very careful planning. Accurate measurement requires a receiving antenna that responds only to horizontal signal components. If the receiving antenna responds to the vertical components (even with considerable attenuation), a false conclusion can be reached. Feedline radiation can dominate the measurement! >3. The high radiation resistances and impedances which give the most problems >in matching can be significantly reduced by the paralleling of wires in the >antenna. Thus instead of a single 14 gauge wire for each leg, use two such >wires spaced a foot or so apart. That's a good suggestion, and a bow tie also works nicely. The ideal antenna for constant impedance bandwidth is a tapered transmission line of constant impedance (the center and the shield both flare out),. The line eventally becomes infinitely wide and radiates (like a horn antenna). The next most desirable is a constant impedance cone that expands on the open end worked against an infinite groundplane. The least desirable is an inverted cone wide at the feedpoint and pointed at the open end. In order of BW: tapered line, conical or bi-conical antennas (like a bow tie), thick linear antennas, thinner linear antennas, reverse tapered antennas (backwards cones, like self supporting towers). 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:35 1996 From: "C. J. Hawley" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner, balun losses, and accurate antenna measurements Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 10:07:34 -0600 Message-ID: <312B4346.11DC@uiuc.edu> References: <4g26q0$14oo@chnews.ch.intel.com> <3128BF42.6AF@uiuc.edu> Patrick Croft wrote: > > "C. J. Hawley" wrote: > >James R. Duffey wrote: > >> > >> This thread on the QST auto tuner and losses in the tuner/balun system ha s gone on too long for me to ignore. I cannot resist commenting on several poi nts; > >> > >> 1. The place for a balun with a multiple band ladder line fed antenna is between the tuner and the transmitter, not between the tuner and the antenna. The a > >> ork fine in this configuration as well. > >What the heck kind of editor do you have? I can't even find > >the ends of the lines. > >-- > > > > > >Charles Jack Hawley Jr. > Chuck - > You may need to open up your setup width. Many people are going to 17" or l arger monitors, and > with most news readers (I'm using News Express and a 17" - your post only ab out 25% width) allow > wide spaces. It has been my understanding that one should attempt to mainta in width of original > sender, ie: hit the return key! > 73 > > Patrick WB9IQI Well that's the thing. I use a 17 inch monitor and I usually open up to where the lines don't wrap on the post that I am responding to. I the above case, I could never get the f ew words on the ends of the lines. I use Netscape, and I scrolled to the end of the window and the lines just ended resulting in missing words. No big deal, but it's happened before and I wonder how it could be. Chuck KE9UW From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:36 1996 From: Eduardo Luiz Barbin Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: short wave antenna reference sought Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 19:24:20 -0300 Message-ID: References: <4ffk7t$nm5@ncar.ucar.edu> On 9 Feb 1996, Bob Tomas wrote: > Hello all, > > I am searching for a reference containing plans/advice on the construction > of antennas for s/w radio listening. > > Thanks, > > Bob > n7nd > Helo Bob Tomas, I am have reference of one spanish book with very plans/adivice for the construction of antennas of any waves. If you want this references, write for me. From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:37 1996 From: tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Spacing between stacked yagis Date: 20 Feb 1996 20:30:08 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gdb0g$i6g@chnews.ch.intel.com> Im making plans on installing a Cushcraft A3 3-element 20/15/10 meter yagi on the same mast section with a homebrew 2-element 12/17 meter yagi. I need to determine what length of mast section will be acquired. What is the mimimum required spaceing between the two yagis to prevent an interaction. Tom... From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:38 1996 From: tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Spacing between stacked yagis Date: 20 Feb 1996 18:29:21 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gd3u1$p7h@chnews.ch.intel.com> Im making plans on installing a Cushcraft A3 3-element 20/15/10 meter yagi on the same mast with a homebrew 2-element 12/17 meter yagi. What minimum spacing is required between the two yagis to pervent interaction? Tom... From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:39 1996 From: dross@sirinet.net (Donald M. Ross) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: SQLoop Antenna ? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 03:37:55 GMT Message-ID: <4geos0$118@panther.sirinet.net> I'm just getting back to 2m SSB and am reading N6CL's book. In it he mentions the SQLoop antenna. What is it? What are it's spec's? Where can I get one? Don, NL7CO, EM04 From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:40 1996 From: little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: SQLoop Antenna ? Date: 21 Feb 1996 05:22:39 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gea6v$o0f@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: <4geos0$118@panther.sirinet.net> Reply-To: little@pecan.enet.dec.com In article <4geos0$118@panther.sirinet.net> dross@sirinet.net (Donald M. Ross) wrote: > I'm just getting back to 2m SSB and am reading N6CL's book. > In it he mentions the SQLoop antenna. What is it? What > are it's spec's? Where can I get one? I believe this is a half wave length loop that is fed on one side and open on the other side. It can be built in the form of a loop or a square. Roughly it looks like: +-------| |-------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------+====-----+ If fed at the bottom of this picture, the opposite side of the loop is open. Usually there is some capacitive loading at the open point. One design I saw showed construction made from 1/4" copper tubing with pennies soldered to the open ends. The feed was a simple gamma match. Tuning the antenna was simply a matter of moving the pennies closer or farther apart. They work fine. You can build one or you can buy on from M squared (I believe their designs are half wave length loops.) They call their antennas SQLoops, so I imagine that is what the book was referring to. 73, Todd N9MWB From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:40 1996 From: sco@sco-inc.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: SWR=3:1 How do I lower it? Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 20:18:58 -0400 Message-ID: I have a small 6m SQLOOP antenna and my meter says I have a 3:1 SWR. What can I do to lower the SWR? From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:41 1996 From: Jeff DePolo WN3A Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Telrex tribanders and spinning elements Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:45:03 -0500 Message-ID: <312265EF.3E52@intermediainc.com> References: <311BB812.69AA@intermediainc.com> <4fhesl$2tj@hummin.sol.net> <4fm001$2hn@pravda.aa.msen.com> <4ftg5h$jtf@usenet.continental.com> To: Paul Christensen Paul Christensen wrote: > > Is Telrex still in Business? > > -Paul, N9AZ Yeah, they're still in business. If you've ever tried to deal with them directly, it's not a pleasant experience. We had an element get damaged by ice loading on a Telrex antenna that we couldn't find the manual for. They wanted money just to pull the drawings for the series antenna we had before they would tell us how much it would cost for a replacement piece of tubing! Has anyone else dealt with Telrex for replacement parts? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-J eff DePolo WN3A Twisted Pair: H:610-337-7383 W:215-387-3059 x300 depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu RF: 442.1 442.2 442.4 443.45 443.8 444.15 linked Claim to Fame: I got the 1st speeding ticket on the information superhighway From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:42 1996 From: rpmccoy@usa.pipeline.com(Richard P. McCoy) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals in Trees/Radials Date: 15 Feb 1996 11:24:01 GMT Message-ID: <4fv54h$9ia@news1.usa.pipeline.com> On Feb 12, 1996 20:23:15 in article , 'ashworth@plaza.ds.adp.COM (Dennis Ashworth)' wrote: >So, from a performance standpoint, does anyone see a problem using >small gauge steel galv wire versus expensive copper? Try using aluminum electric fence wire. Steel is a poor conductor compared to copper. (Although I have used steel fence wire with pretty good success for antennas) Aluminum conducts almost as well as copper ( i.e. lots of antennas use it) A couple of thousand feet is $ 15 to $ 20 at WalMart. If you need to solder to it, try using 'Solder It' for aluminum available from AES, etc. Good luck, Dick, N4UN From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:43 1996 From: rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals, how many radials? Date: 14 Feb 1996 23:48:42 GMT Message-ID: <4ftscq$orn@hpscit.sc.hp.com> References: <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> In article <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, W8JI Tom wrote: >Hi Tom, > >Radials DO NOT change the "take-off angle" unless they are many >wavelengths long, so the waveangle will be the same with any system. > >73 Tom Is anyone aware of any data as to how long the radials have to be for a given take off angle? Is there any way to simulate this with NEC or whatever? Rick Karlquist N6RK rkarlqu@scd.hp.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:45 1996 From: millersg@dma.org (Steve Miller) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals, how many radials? Date: 15 Feb 1996 18:12:20 GMT Message-ID: <4fvt24$4kt@sally.dma.org> References: <4fr5sn$17i7@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ftscq$orn@hpscit.sc.hp.com> In article <4ftscq$orn@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, Richard Karlquist wrote: >In article <4fr9ti$db8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, >W8JI Tom wrote: >> >>Radials DO NOT change the "take-off angle" unless they are many >>wavelengths long, so the waveangle will be the same with any system. > >Is anyone aware of any data as to how long the radials have to be for >a given take off angle? James R. Wait has published some research on this topic. For a _very_ crude, first order approximation - you can employ ray optics image theory. For a given takeoff angle, find the reflection point of the highest portion of the antenna. At 5 degrees elevation, this point is 2.9 wavelengths away for a 1/4 wave vertical. To be effective, it would also require a _lot_ more radials. A fairly dense grid of radial wires is required to significantly alter the reflection coefficient. Unfortunately wire spacing increases with radial distance. A 0.1 wavelength radial spacing (which won't alter the reflection coefficient that much) at r=2.9 wavelengths would require over 180 radials! You can extend a sector of radials in a preferred direction to improve low angle efficiency (Wait has also published on this), but you still would need a lot of wire and a pretty good chunk of real estate to notice any difference. > Is there any way to simulate this with NEC or whatever? Not really. -- Steve Miller WD8IXE millersg@dma.org From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:45 1996 From: bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonneau) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: What are the optimum heights for Yagi ant's for 40,20,15,&10 mtrs? Date: 20 Feb 1996 19:37:21 GMT Message-ID: <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu> Could someone please help me with the optimum heights to install HF yagis on a tower in New England? I have read a couple of antenna handbooks and fro m what I read it seems that the following heights would work. However, I have no practical experience with these beams and how they actually perform at dif ferent heights...Here are the proposed heights of each beam: 40 mtr 3 or 4 ele at = 115ft 20 mtr long boom 4 or 5 el = 100ft 15 mtr 6 ele = 100ft 10 mtr 6 ele = 110ft My goal is to get an optimum setup for DX. If anyone could tell me what they think of these proposed heights, I'd really appreciate any info I could get. Thanks in advance! Brad NZ1Y From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:46 1996 From: John Wilcox/NS1Z Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What is good for 6m? Date: 19 Feb 1996 00:31:35 GMT Message-ID: <4g8gd7$1li@service-2.agate.net> References: <96047.093724BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> To: BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU what works? not much with condx like they are! But if they ever do start working again I have a Cushcraft 5 el (the short 12 footer) at 40 feet. -- John Wilcox / NS1Z INTERNET :204.117.6.48 ns1z@agate.net Work :5018901@mcimail.com TCP/IP :44.118.6.4 ns1z@ns1z.ampr.org AX-25 :ns1z@kb1bsc.fn44rn.me.usa.noam From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:47 1996 From: "Anthony R. Gold" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Why free space path loss? Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 10:53:05 GMT Message-ID: <824727185snz@microvst.demon.co.uk> References: <4g8n5l$dvg@utopia.hacktic.nl> Reply-To: tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk In article <4g8n5l$dvg@utopia.hacktic.nl> nobody@flame.alias.net "Anonymous" writes: > Even if the power from your isotropic radiator (or other antenna) > is completely absorbed in a surrounding sphere, implying zero > power loss, the theoretical path loss is still there and can be expressed in > terms of decibels. What on earth (or indeed in Free Space) does this mean? And why does tomaz@utopia.hacktic.nl pretend to be nobody@flame.alias.net? Regards, -- Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM email: tgold@panix.com tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:48 1996 From: Roland S Geter PhD Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.amateur.wicen,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: Re: WTB:5KW AM Transmitter Date: 17 Feb 1996 07:58:55 GMT Message-ID: <4g41rv$ica@news1.goodnet.com> References: <4fn47d$j76@www.acay.com.au> To: spiroe@acay.com.au What are you going to do with it? Roland S Geter PhD Internet: roland@mycronet.com Packer: WB6LNA@kc7y.az.usa.noam From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:49 1996 From: Roland S Geter PhD Newsgroups: aus.radio.amateur.misc,aus.radio.amateur.wicen,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.swap Subject: Re: WTB:5KW AM Transmitter Date: 17 Feb 1996 07:57:37 GMT Message-ID: <4g41pi$ica@news1.goodnet.com> References: <4fn47d$j76@www.acay.com.au> To: spiro,evagelakos What are you going to do with it? Roland S Geter PhD Internet: roland@mycronet.com Packer: WB6LNA@kc7y.az.usa.noam From lwbyppp@epix.net Wed Feb 21 15:58:50 1996 Message-ID: <505394@280.chatlink.com> From: Phantom@sys280.chatlink.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: 16 Feb 1996 21:28:07 PST Subject: Re: WTD: Leaky Coax You can buy leaky coax at radio shack! Phantom From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:35 1996 From: wday@dfw.net (Wayne Day) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 10m mobile ant recommendations Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 23:43:33 -0600 Message-ID: References: <4geos0$118@panther.sirinet.net> <4gea6v$o0f@usenet.pa.dec.com> <312DFEBE.2053@kodak.com> In article <312DFEBE.2053@kodak.com>, John Spoonhower wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations for 10m mobile antennas? > I am interested in mobile operation with a radio of <100w and > am I'm looking for either plans for a 10 m antenna or > recommendations for a commercial product. Remembering the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid)... take a 108" CB whip antenna and start bringing the length down till the antenna is resonant where you want it. Simple, effective, inexpensive. 73 Wayne KF5ZC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wayne Day KF5ZC Fort Worth,Texas,USA kf5zc@amsat.org | CompuServe: 76703,376 76703.376@CompuServe.Com | ,__o wday@dfw.net |--\_<, Member: Bicycle Mobile Hams of America (*)/'(*) For info on BMHA or the BIKEHAM mailing list: Finger KF5ZC@dfw.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:36 1996 From: Ken Harrison Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 3 Repeaters, 1 Antenna?? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 23:05:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Anyone know of someone who has tried this one? Our club, in an effort to consolidate antennas up on the hill, is purchasing a Comet Tri-band antenna (144/220/440) and a Comet triplexor and will be running the 2 meter repeater, 220 repeater, and the 440 repeater on it. Each of the repeaters already has it's own duplexors so we will be tying those in to the triplexor and then to the antenna. Sound feasible? Any hints or kinks that we might want to aware of or look out for? If this works, our next move will be for another of the same set-ups for a 2 meter digipeater, a 220 digipeater, and the 440 control link. Ken __________________________________________________________________________ Ken Harrison --- ken@cs.sonoma.edu --- Amateur Radio: N6MHG ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:37 1996 From: tsoliver@tir.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 3 Repeaters, 1 Antenna?? Date: 22 Feb 1996 07:48:40 GMT Message-ID: <4gh74o$3th@ramp2.tir.com> References: Our group has tried this same thing with prety much the same result in the end-failure of the triplexer. case 1 220 repeater with remote bases on 2 and 440 worked ok for awhile seems the triplexer could not handle 100 watt pa on repeater continous. case 2 diferent repeater 65 watt pa antena was shared with person downstairs who was using 160 watt amp for fm voice on two meters and repeater 220 mhz. was using antena at same time. worked ok for a while but triplexer failed probably because it couldnt take both transmiting at same time. conclusion: from a reliability standpoint I would not recomend this unless combined power of the repeaters is less than half the max power handling capability of the device. tom n8ies From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:40 1996 From: Ken Harrison Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 3 Repeaters, 1 Antenna?? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 23:02:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <4gh74o$3th@ramp2.tir.com> <312C8E6F.5ED0@intermediainc.com> On Thu, 22 Feb 1996, Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote: > I'd stay away from any of the ham-grade diplexers/triplexers. You should lo ok > at commercial models - they have higher power handling capabilities, and in > some cases, better isolation. Now that the 220 MHz commercial band has been > around for a few years, you should be able to find a commercial diplexer tha t > splits VHF-hi (2m) and 220 MHz. That diplexer would be connected to the > low-pass side of another diplexer that splits VHF from UHF. I'd suggest > calling TxRx - even if they don't have a stock model that will split 2m and > 220, they should be able to make one to your specifications. I can't rememb er > ever seeing any commercial-grade triplexers. OK, thanks for the reply. I'll bring this idea up. I wasn't aware that there were commercial grade diplexers available. It stands to reason, though. 73, Ken __________________________________________________________________________ Ken Harrison --- ken@cs.sonoma.edu --- Amateur Radio: N6MHG ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:41 1996 From: Jeff DePolo WN3A Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 3 Repeaters, 1 Antenna?? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 10:40:31 -0500 Message-ID: <312C8E6F.5ED0@intermediainc.com> References: <4gh74o$3th@ramp2.tir.com> I'd stay away from any of the ham-grade diplexers/triplexers. You should look at commercial models - they have higher power handling capabilities, and in some cases, better isolation. Now that the 220 MHz commercial band has been around for a few years, you should be able to find a commercial diplexer that splits VHF-hi (2m) and 220 MHz. That diplexer would be connected to the low-pass side of another diplexer that splits VHF from UHF. I'd suggest calling TxRx - even if they don't have a stock model that will split 2m and 220, they should be able to make one to your specifications. I can't remember ever seeing any commercial-grade triplexers. You'll lose a few tenths of a dB in each diplexer (typically 0.2 to 0.5 dB) Obviously you'll take a performance hit in switching to a multi-band antenna for the repeater as well. At one of my sites I use a pair of Telewave diplexers to share a run of 1 5/8" line between my 440 repeater and an 800 MHz LTR system. I have a diplexer at each end of the line -- at the top of the tower there are two antennas: the 800 MHz stick for the LTR system (transmitters) and my Decibel 2x4 440 antenna. It has worked out well performance-wise, and it was a whole lot cheaper than another 600' run of 1 5/8" line, hi! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jeff DePolo WN3A Twisted Pair: H:610-337-7383 W:215-387-3059 x300 depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu RF: 442.1 442.2 442.4 443.45 443.8 444.15 linked Claim to Fame: I got the 1st speeding ticket on the information superhighway From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:42 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 4 ele Gem Quad Date: 19 Feb 1996 14:01:51 GMT Message-ID: <4g9vsf$dho@news.ios.com> References: <4g1kh4$84@nuntius.u-net.net> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com In <4g1kh4$84@nuntius.u-net.net>, garry@bonney.u-net.com (Garry Walker) writes : >I am trying to find out about the performance/problems with a 4 ele >Gem Quad. I have used a 2 ele quad in the past on 10 metres only, but >would like further info. I am interested in the feed arrangement for >a 5 band version of the quad, interaction problems, etc etc. > >Any info would be most appreciated. > >Regards Garry > >---------------------------------- >G0IHB, GX0TEN, F/G0IHB/P > >Internet:garry@bonney.u-net.com >Packet: G0IHB@F6KBO.FBRE.FRA.EU > >---------------------------------- > Hi Garry, I am a former owner of a similar aray. Mine was only the 3 band version. The only reason I'm a former owner was that after 12 years in two different locations. A good old midwest tornado destroyed the quad. It had held up under 1/2 inch ice storms, 70 mph wind gusts, 100 degree to -20 degree temps. Extremely rugged. In fact, a part of it still lives as a 2 element 10 meter quad at a friends QT H. The force of the tornado twisted the top 3 sections of Rohn 25G to look like a lic orice stick. The helioarced welds on the aluminum spreader on the driven/reflector elements sheared and then it was the end of the line for the rest of the anten na. No Yagi antennas survived that day either. Performance wise, absolutely dynamite. I replaced it with a TH6DXX and it was n't even close to the performance. I had thought GEM was out of business at that time but was wrong about that. You will love the performance and be very competiti ve on the bands. I sold the TH6DXX and replaced it with a two element quad, sti ll seems better. As far as I'm concerned, there is only one way to feed a multiband wire array . Use separate feedlines. Don't tie all the driven elements together. The interacti on is too darn aggravating to deal with. Get yourself a remote antenna switch, Amer itron makes two, one with a single feedline ( I use it ) and one that requires a co ntrol cable. The control cable version will switch 8 antennas. I currently have a 4 band quad up with the Ameritron 4 position remote switch . I feed it with 75 ohm coax all the way. The quad has an approximate 100 ohm feedpoint and the 75 ohm coax seems to work very well. With the separate feed lines, you are more easily able to tune the array at lower heights before put ting it up at the operating height. Anyway, it's just my opinion. 73's de WD9AHF Jim From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:43 1996 From: n0nas@hamlink.mn.org (Doug Reed) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 440 Horizontal ant? Message-ID: <824976546.AA05443@hamlink.mn.org> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 06:30:22 -0100 to: BColenso@aol.COM BC>Date: 9 Feb 96 02:29:40 GMT BC>> BC>>Does anyone know where I can get a 440 horizontal mobile antenna? Our ATV BC>>repeater is horizontal so I need an omni 440 horizontally polarized BC>>mobile antenna for mobile atv. BC>> BC>>TNX & 73 BC>> BC>>Barry - KT4DQ BC>I reposted this on the HAM-L list, and this is the only response i have so BC>far. BC>Bob KD8WU The two best omni antennas for ATV are the Alford Slot or the Mini-Wheel antennas. The slot antenna can easily be made from a 2 foot square piece of 1/2" hardware cloth but will look like heck on your car. The mini-wheel antenna is a 440 MHz version of the 144 mHz Big Wheel antenna design. The easiest way to get one is to send $45 to Olde Antenna Lab in Denver CO (303) 798-5926. He even makes a mag mount version for $60. Most other omni horizontal designs don't provide the very wide bandwidth required for ATV. I highly recommend Amateur Television Quarterly for ATV info although you'll have to buy a bunch of back issues to find all the antenna designs. Hope this is what you want. 73's. Doug Reed, N0NAS email: n0nas@hamlink.mn.org * SLMR 2.1a * My reality check just bounced. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:44 1996 From: kninectf@mo.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 6 meter halo Date: 22 Feb 1996 15:29:21 GMT Message-ID: <4gi24h$14l@Twain.MO.NET> I am looking for information on a three ring 6 meter halo. I have a friend wh o wants build one and need any information you can supply. 73 Alan 'K9CTF' From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:45 1996 From: Rod Dinkins Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 6 meter halo Date: 22 Feb 1996 15:51:14 GMT Message-ID: <4gi3di$1vj@reader2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4gi24h$14l@Twain.MO.NET> To: kninectf@mo.net See ARRL Publication "The Radio Amateur's VHF Manual" -- 1968. Covers a halo big wheel for 2 meters which probably could be scaled to 6 Meters. Hope this helps. BTW: the article doesn't speak favorably ofthe halo's gain Rod -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:46 1996 From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 6 meter halo Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 14:27:47 GMT Message-ID: <4gkibb$ngk@news1.inlink.com> References: <4gi24h$14l@Twain.MO.NET> <4gi3di$1vj@reader2.ix.netcom.com> Rod Dinkins wrote: >See ARRL Publication "The Radio Amateur's VHF Manual" -- 1968. Covers a >halo big wheel for 2 meters which probably could be scaled to 6 Meters. >Hope this helps. >BTW: the article doesn't speak favorably ofthe halo's gain >Rod Hey Rod By your callsign, I will assume you were around in the 60's! We used to use 6-m halo's on our cars for our Heathkit Sixer Lunchboxes. 3 watts and talked the world. Local simplex communications on AM were equivalent to the range of our 2-m FM repeaters these days, hmmmmmmmm. well almost in retrospect! You don't want to know what it did to our trunk decks, Hi Hi.... TTUL - 73+ de Gary - KG0ZP From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:47 1996 From: little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 900 MHz phones Date: 25 Feb 1996 04:19:42 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4goo0u$5nd@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: <960224201719_430839032@mail02.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: little@pecan.enet.dec.com In article <960224201719_430839032@mail02.mail.aol.com> BColenso@aol.COM wrote: > Our test team at work is considering buying a 900 MHz cordless phone. I see m > to remember a few years ago there was some health concerns regarding cordles s > of cellular phones operated in this frequency range. > > Can anyone tell me the latest on this, or am I completely off base? There were some lawsuits a year or two ago that claimed people were developing cancers as a result of using hand held cellular phones. In at least one case, a women developed a brain tumor on the side of her head where she normally held her cellular phone and supposedly spent a great deal of time on the phone. To the best of my knowledge, none of these cases have found in favor of the plaintiff (which given the sorry state our legal system is in is pretty amazing!) The medical reports I've seen so far can find nothing conclusive. There have been some studies that show varying magnetic fields can change the movement of calcium in cells (this is from memory so I may not have this exactly correct), but nothing that indicates any potential risk. There is also the issue of tissue heating once you start reaching UHF and microwave frequencies, but at the levels a cordless phone uses, there shouldn't be a problem. This can be a problem at 2-5 GHz where the eyeball starts becoming a resonant cavity. Plus the eye has no nerves to sense heat. As a result, it is possible to cause permanent eye damage and be totally unaware of it at the time. Again, this is usually at higher frequencies and at higher power levels than a 900 MHz cordless phone is going to use. 73, Todd N9MWB From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:48 1996 From: Bill Crocker Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 900 MHz phones Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 12:57:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3130A315.55AB@mail.rust.net> References: <960224201719_430839032@mail02.mail.aol.com> Bob: The health concerns were related to the hand-held Cellular telephones that ope rate in the mid to high 800 MHz area. There was concern because they operate at ar ound 6/10'ths of a watt. Nobody has died yet. To my knowledge, there was only one case of a women who developed a brain tumor sometime after she started using her Ce llualar phone. There was never any proof it was caused by the phone. 900 MHz. cordless telephones, used in the home and office produce much less po wer. I'm not sure what the output is, but it's much less. I've been using both for sometime now, and nothing has gone wrong...gone wrong ...gone wrong...gone wrong...gone wrong... :) Bill Crocker p.s. The guys in the blue helmets will get you before your phone does! From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:50 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dts@peanut.senie.com (Daniel Senie) Subject: Re: 900 MHz phones Message-ID: <4gqpq6$42a@peanut.senie.com> References: <960224201719_430839032@mail02.mail.aol.com> <3130A315.55AB@mail.rust.net> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:02:30 GMT In article <3130A315.55AB@mail.rust.net>, Bill Crocker wrote: >Bob: > >The health concerns were related to the hand-held Cellular telephones that op erate >in the mid to high 800 MHz area. There was concern because they operate at a round >6/10'ths of a watt. Nobody has died yet. To my knowledge, there was only on e case >of a women who developed a brain tumor sometime after she started using her C ellualar >phone. There was never any proof it was caused by the phone. > >900 MHz. cordless telephones, used in the home and office produce much less p ower. I'm >not sure what the output is, but it's much less. > >I've been using both for sometime now, and nothing has gone wrong...gone wron g...gone >wrong...gone wrong...gone wrong... The early handheld cell phones ran 3 watts into a rubber duckie right next to the user's head. The newer phones run 600 mW. All cell phones can be reduced in power output automatically by the cell sites. If the signal is strong, the cell site will tell the phone to reduce power, which improves frequency re-use . The 900MHz cordless phones used on the 902-928 band are FCC Part 15 devices, which limits their output to around 150mW normally, or 1 watt if spread spectrum. The better 900MHz cell phone are indeed spread spectrum devices, making eavesdropping unlikely. Dan -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie Internet: dan@senie.com, Daniel Senie Consulting n1jeb@senie.com http://www.senie.com Packet Radio: N1JEB@KA1SRD.MA From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:51 1996 From: rpmccoy@usa.pipeline.com(Richard P. McCoy) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: a slinky antenna? Date: 22 Feb 1996 09:08:38 GMT Message-ID: <4ghbqm$oh9@news1.usa.pipeline.com> Curtis: I built one of these many years ago while in school. I believe there was an article in QST in the early to mid 70s. Some people suspend them from the ceiling along one wall. I used two collapsing fiberglass fishing poles, which when extended allowed the slinky to be stretched along its length. One slinky per side. The poles were mounted in a three feet long 2" PVC pipe. The vertical support pipe used 3 metal angle brackets inserted in the base to act as a tripod. Not real stable, but it worked. Feed it with a short length of ladder line and use an antenna tuner. I used coax at the time. I used this in a second floor apartment and was able to work into Europe on SSB with 100 watts on 20 and 15 meters. Hope that helps. 73s, Dick, N4UN From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:52 1996 From: marktaint@aol.com (MARKTAINT) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: a slinky antenna? Date: 21 Feb 1996 02:09:27 -0500 Message-ID: <4gegf7$dku@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4g3b0f$1kea@lamar.ColoState.EDU> Reply-To: marktaint@aol.com (MARKTAINT) Antennas West does sell the slinky antenna and they also sell a booklet giving some technical details about the antenna as well as construction details. You can e-mail them at radventr@itsnet.com. They've been very helpful whenever I've contacted them. Mark, N0YRW From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:53 1996 From: bstrme@stromer.pp.se (Bengt Stromer) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Active SW antenna circuit diagram Date: 24 Feb 1996 19:05:14 GMT Message-ID: <4gnnhb$3lm@stella.tip.net> Does anyone have a circuit diagram/description of a wideband active antenna which can be built from ordinary components? I want to know if you have seen any magazine articles, or even something that can be downloaded on the net. Answer by email preferred. Thank you Bengt /SM6ALA From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:54 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Mike Morris) Subject: Advice please - hf end fed antenna... Message-ID: <1996Feb23.082438.28635@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> Distribution: usa Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 08:24:38 GMT A friend has his tech plus license, and wants to get on HF CW for the first time. He has an unusual antenna situation: He has CC&Rs that limit hin to low profile antennas. He is tentatively planning an endfed long wire about 120', from the chimney on the house to the garage roof peak, pretty flat at 15' in the air. Alternately he can go from a tree in the front yard to the garage roof peak, for about 180' sloping from 30' at the tree to 15' at the garage. The antenna will be about 15' in the air. The total distance from the mounting points on the structures is about 140'. He was musing about a relay box at each end of the antenna and two feedlines so he could have the ham station in the garage attic (correct - a 2 story garage - cars and auto workshop on the first f loor, electronics workshop/computer room on the second), and a SWL receiver in the house. Only one end would be active at a time, naturally. I told him to forget it in the begining - the coax relays would cost too much. Center feeding the antenna is almost a non-issue; the coax would have to be strung horizontal to about 10' off center, making the antenna almost a horizontal shallow V shape. I figure 120-140' of wire carefully measured (and then tweaked with the aid of a noise bridge) should get him on the air on the CW portions of 160m through 10m without traps. With only 15' off the ground, his efficiency and performance won't be the best, but he should have some fun. What are his chances of working Europe (or even WAS) from the west coast of the USA with 100w PEP? Anyway, the radio he has is a barefoot Heathkit HW series that is in good shape, he can borrow a FT-101EE, and he may inherit an S-line (in complete but very tired shape) in a couple of years. Comments? all of the above is strictly off of theory and reading - my HF experience has been 90% on my (still running well on all but one of the factory tubes!) SX-28. Please reply via EMAIL as well as posting - the ham newsgroups expire rapidly on this system - sometimes morning postings are gone in the evening before I can read them. Thanks in advance - Mike Morris, WA6ILQ. -- --- Mike Morris morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us #include I have others, but this works the best. This message assembled from 100% recycled electrons (and pixels). From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:55 1996 From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: antenna couplers Date: 22 Feb 1996 20:10:04 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4giiis$he0@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us A transmatch output is conjugately matched to the antenna feedline. But two identical transmatches with identical Ls and Cs back to back *may* not be conjugately matched to each other. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:55 1996 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Design Software Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 02:55:27 GMT Message-ID: <4gtrpb$ocl@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4gqgpj$iek@atlas.uniserve.com> In article <4gqgpj$iek@atlas.uniserve.com>, Jeff wrote: >Can anyone tell me if there are evaluation or demo versions >of antenna design software available on the internet ? >I want to build a antenna and would like a program to >consult with . THANKS Jeff VE7 GMX A demo version of ELNEC is available at ftp.teleport.com/pub/vendors/w7el. The file name is ELNECDEM.EXE. After downloading, type ELNECDEM and it will expand to a number of files, including a READ.ME file. Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:56 1996 From: mvenable@aol.com (MVenable) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Information For C.B. Radio Date: 21 Feb 1996 19:04:42 -0500 Message-ID: <4ggbuq$ip2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4gd29v$kb5@usenet.pa.dec.com> Reply-To: mvenable@aol.com (MVenable) Well said, Todd. 73 Mark Venable From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:57 1996 From: Rod Dinkins Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Information For C.B. Radio Date: 22 Feb 1996 14:59:22 GMT Message-ID: <4gi0ca$16a@reader2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4gbcf4$4rn@news-2.ccinet.ab.ca> To: n4lq@iglou.com See Article titled "Goofy Antennas" for a serious discussion of underground antennas. No joke it has been done. Plans are included in the reference. You can get out further with a Wet Noodle and a Linear than you can with just a Wet Noodle -- Big Al in Chicago! -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:58 1996 From: Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Information For C.B. Radio Date: 20 Feb 1996 02:42:44 GMT Message-ID: <4gbcf4$4rn@news-2.ccinet.ab.ca> Does anyone know how to make an antenna for a base C.B. radio unit, I have a lot of copper wire,copper tubing that type of stuff, would like to know suggested height if that matters. Will be using this in a city. Thank-you,if you have any info. Email me waynem@ccinet.ab.ca From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:56:59 1996 From: KNCJ39A@prodigy.com (Glen Reifsnyder) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Length Date: 22 Feb 1996 00:54:50 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4ggesq$29pe@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> I am in Princeton, NJ and want to receive CBC Radio out of Toronto, Ontario at 740 on the AM band. I have a GE Super Radio with external connections for an AM antenna. How long should the antenna be to receive 740? Is there a formula to determine the antenna length knowing the frequency? What type of wire do I use? I can only have the antenna inside the house, first floor or basement. Should the wire run around the baseboard of a room? Do the number of angles or turns in the length or wire make a difference? Thanks! - GLEN REIFSNYDER KNCJ39A@prodigy.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:00 1996 From: Steve Beyers <103107.3704@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna location program Date: 21 Feb 1996 03:03:50 GMT Message-ID: <4ge22m$4j5$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> I recently read an article about a computer program that finds the best location for an antenna, taking into account the topography of the potential locations, and antenna parameters. The trouble is, I can't remember where I read it. Can anybody help? Thanks. Steve W9HJW -- Steve Beyers W9HJW From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:01 1996 From: Pierre-Andre Rovelli Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna location program Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:59:27 +0100 Message-ID: <312DAC1F.5AA7@bi.swissptt.ch> References: <4ge22m$4j5$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> Steve Beyers wrote: > > I recently read an article about a computer program that finds the > best location for an antenna, taking into account the topography > of the potential locations, and antenna parameters. The trouble > is, I can't remember where I read it. Can anybody help? Thanks. > > Steve W9HJW > > -- > Steve Beyers W9HJWDear Steve, please contact N6BV from ARRL technical staff (ANTENNA BOOK editor) 73 de HB9FMN Pierre-André parovelli@spectraweb.ch From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:02 1996 From: donstone@gate.net (Don Stoner) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Rotator Date: 24 Feb 1996 23:58:04 GMT Message-ID: <4go8mc$466@news.gate.net> I hope to put up a 7-30 MHz log periodic antenna. I'd like recommendations on a suitable rotator. Cost not important but am interested in strength of casting because of high windloading. Appreciate ur comments and suggestions. 73 W6TNS From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:02 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dts@peanut.senie.com (Daniel Senie) Subject: Re: Antenna Rotator Message-ID: <4gor6j$khn@peanut.senie.com> References: <4go8mc$466@news.gate.net> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 05:13:55 GMT In article <4go8mc$466@news.gate.net>, Don Stoner wrote: >I hope to put up a 7-30 MHz log periodic antenna. I'd like recommendations on a >suitable rotator. Cost not important but am interested in strength of casting >because of high windloading. Appreciate ur comments and suggestions. 73 W6TNS > Don, is THIS the antenna you're fighting the condo association over? :-) -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie Internet: dan@senie.com, Daniel Senie Consulting n1jeb@senie.com http://www.senie.com Packet Radio: N1JEB@KA1SRD.MA From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:03 1996 From: amman@airmail.net (McCarthy) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna rotator Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 05:08:28 GMT Message-ID: <4gr871$f9o@news-f.iadfw.net> Radio shack antenna rotator for small to med. beams. Works great, will test before ship. $40.00 plus $5 shipping. 73 Robert KC5RYI amman@airmail.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:04 1996 From: Roger A. Cox <75052.3037@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Software Date: 19 Feb 1996 14:34:25 GMT Message-ID: <4ga1ph$d55$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> References: <4g59va$ck7@news.asu.edu> Here is some general information on where to find NEC information: The Numerical Electromagnetic Code (Version 2), also called NEC-2 can be downloaded from: ftp.netcom.com/pub/ra/rander/NEC or ftp.emclab.umr.edu/pub/ACES or ftp.funet.fi/pub/ham/antenna/NEC The Applied Computational Electromagnetics Society (ACES) has a WEB home page at: http://www.emclab.umr.edu/ACES The NEC Internet mailing list is at: davem @ ee.ubc.ca (requests for additions/deletions) nec-list @ ee.ubc.ca (postings) A preliminary NEC Manual can be found at: http://www.cici.com/~richesop/nec/index.html 73, Roger WB0DGF From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:05 1996 From: smason@agt.net (Steve Mason) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ball mount strong enough for screw driver antenna? Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 19:54:44 GMT Message-ID: <3128ccec.611741857@news.agt.net> References: <4foria$qjj@usenet.pa.dec.com> <31224003.182388385@news.agt.net> <4fvns3$pmu@usenet.pa.dec.com> On 15 Feb 1996 16:43:47 GMT, little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) wrote: >> Pardon my ignorance, but I've seen this mentioned a few times now, what >> exactly is a "screw driver" antenna? > >A "screw driver" antenna is a mobile HF antenna that gets its name from >using a hand held power screw driver to adjust the setting of a coil. Basica lly >the antenna is a roughly 2" diameter tube with a disemboweled hand held > They are >available pre-assembled or you can home brew one yourself. They are Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I guess I should read the ham magazines more often. Steve VE6STV From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:06 1996 From: rs@ham.island.net (Robert Smits) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CB antenna to 2m 5/8? Message-ID: <022196222004Rnf0.79b6@ham.island.net> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 22:20:00 PST References: <4gf5um$lmk_001@news.marble.net> Reply-To: rs@ham.island.net Distribution: world benw@fesi.com (Benjamin J. Weiss)KE6HRM writes: >Hi! > >I bought a used CB mag-mount antenna, as I had hear that it >was easy to convert one to a 2m 5/8 whip. I went down to >the local library and looked at W1FB's Antenna Notebook, >the ARRL Antenna Compendium Vol 1, and the 1994 ARRL Handbook. >None of these had the modification. > >Is a file available on the net that explains how to do this? I don't know. There is an article in an old version of the ARRL's FM and Repeaters (1972) that talks about modifying a Radio Shack 21-908 CB antenna to a 5/8 antenna for 2 M. The antenna consists of a clamp on trunk mount, a base coil, and a 39 inch spring-mounted stainless steel whip. The mod involves removing the loading coil inductance, winding a new coil and mounting a 3-30 pf trimmer in the bottom housing (it used a trunk mount). 1. Remove the weather proof covering from the coil. Remove the base housing and clamp the whip side of antenna in a vise. Insert a knife blade between the edge of the whip base and the covering. Gently tap the knife edge with a hammer to force the housing away from the whip section. Work around the edge 'til the covering loosens. 2. Remove the coil turns and wind a new coil using No 12 wire. The new coil should have 9 turns, equally spaced. Tap the coil 2 turns up from the base (ground) end on the antenna. 3. The 3-30 pf trimmer is connected between the inner conductor of the coax cable and the tap on the coil. It was mounted on a terminal strip inside the trunk mount, with a hole drilled in the trunk mount to allow adjustment with the cover reinstalled and antenna mounted. -- rs@ham.island.net Dave Lister: We want no moo'fins, no toast, no tea cakes, no boo'ns, baps, baggets, or bagels, no cra'ssants, no croo'mpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes, and no hot cross boo'ns, and *definitely* -- no smeggin' flapjacks! Talkie Toaster: Ahhhh -- so you're a *Waffle* man. -- "Red Dwarf" From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:07 1996 From: Dan O'Connell Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CB antenna to 2m 5/8? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 13:45:26 -0800 Message-ID: References: <4gf5um$lmk_001@news.marble.net> <022196222004Rnf0.79b6@ham.island.net> B On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Robert Smits wrote: > benw@fesi.com (Benjamin J. Weiss)KE6HRM writes: > > >Hi! > > > >I bought a used CB mag-mount antenna, as I had hear that it > >was easy to convert one to a 2m 5/8 whip. I went down to > >the local library and looked at W1FB's Antenna Notebook, > >the ARRL Antenna Compendium Vol 1, and the 1994 ARRL Handbook. > the article was in CQ magazine sometime before 1988, because I used the article to modify a mag cb antenna. Also used it on 6 meters! Dan WA7TDZ oconneld@mail.oit.osshe.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:09 1996 From: Ken Harrison Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CB antenna to 2m 5/8? Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 15:52:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <4gf5um$lmk_001@news.marble.net> <022196222004Rnf0.79b6@ham.island.net> On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Dan O'Connell wrote: > On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Robert Smits wrote: > > > benw@fesi.com (Benjamin J. Weiss)KE6HRM writes: > > > > >Hi! > > > > > >I bought a used CB mag-mount antenna, as I had hear that it > > >was easy to convert one to a 2m 5/8 whip. I went down to > > >the local library and looked at W1FB's Antenna Notebook, > > >the ARRL Antenna Compendium Vol 1, and the 1994 ARRL Handbook. > > > the article was in CQ magazine sometime before 1988, because I used > the article to modify a mag cb antenna. Also used it on 6 meters! > Dan WA7TDZ oconneld@mail.oit.osshe.edu I took an old Radio Shack mag mount CB antenna and cut the radiator down and rewound the coil for a 5/8 on 220. Works just fine. It just happened that the coil form was already the same size as the plans in the ARRL Handbook and Antenna Book for their 220 5/8 antenna. Ken __________________________________________________________________________ Ken Harrison --- ken@cs.sonoma.edu --- Amateur Radio: N6MHG ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:10 1996 From: Ken Harrison Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CB antenna to 2m 5/8? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:14:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <4gf5um$lmk_001@news.marble.net> <022196222004Rnf0.79b6@ham.island.net> <199602270051.UAA13463@Fox.nstn.ca> On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, nstn2527 wrote: > There was a program for the Commodore 64 that helped one design a mobile > antenna by calculating no. of turns, coil diameter and length, length and > diameter of whip to accommodate a desired frequency. But who uses the > Commodore anymore? I don't know of a similar program for the PC but it > would be nice to have for experimentation. I've seen a program for the PC that will help design coils, but never the whole ball of wax... i.e. the whole antenna. It would be nice to play with. If I could work up some formulas and had a little more spare time, it wouldn't be too hard to get a program going. Might make a nice summer project... Ken __________________________________________________________________________ Ken Harrison --- ken@cs.sonoma.edu --- Amateur Radio: N6MHG ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:11 1996 From: henrypol@aol.com (HENRYPOL) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Communications Quarterly Magazine Date: 22 Feb 1996 08:56:00 -0500 Message-ID: <4ghslg$728@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: henrypol@aol.com (HENRYPOL) Saw a recent cumulative index of this mag. There have been numerous interesting articles on antennas. Does anyone have back issues that they would like to sell or let me borrow (I pay shipping both ways)? 73, Henry Pollock - WB4HFL henrypol@aol.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:13 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Connector losses Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 12:23:40 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <199602250258.UAA10487@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> In article <199602250258.UAA10487@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> pat@wf9h.COM (Pat Ha milton) writes: >From: pat@wf9h.COM (Pat Hamilton) >Subject: Connector losses >Date: 25 Feb 96 01:58:11 GMT >To: Ham-Ant@ucsd.edu >Subject: Connector losses >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 07:09:57 >> >> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:33:11 GMT >> From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) >> Subject: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? >> >Big Snip >> >> Anyhow, my only reason for replying is to bring up another loss that I >> find more relevant in my antenna installations. The number quoted is >> not proper, but the effect is very real. I consider every connector >> between my rig and antenna to be a 1 db loss, and every component or >> device, like an swr meter left inline to be an equivalent loss. [snipped] >Hello Gary, >I have heard that opinion many times before and could never quite >understand it. While I would agree that there certainly is some >degree of loss in each connection between the rig and it's antenna, >but a db each? >I would find that very hard to believe. Me too, although Gary hedged by saying the number quoted wasn't correct. I would say that each connector, etc. is an opportunity for something to go wrong and we know what Murphy says about that. Also, we must consider the frequency before issuing any blanket statements and use caution even then. Each interface does introduce a mismatch (reflection) as well as some attenuation due to normal losses. Each of these reflections is complex, ie has both a magnitude and a phase. As frequency is changed, the phases of each reflection change as well. Because the mismatches are distributed at various places down the line, the electrical distances between them also vary with frequency. Consequently, at the input to the line, what is seen is the vector sum of all of these individual reflections which are changing with frequency. Sweeping the input frequency and measuring the input reflection coefficient (VSWR) will show a ripple pattern caused by the constructive and destructive summing of the various mismatches. This mismatch ripple will cause a related transmission loss variation over and above the inherent network attenuation. Also, note that the higher frequency and the greater the electrical length or distances between mismatches, the more rapidly the ripple changes. Therefore, at UHF/uW, these effects become much more bothersome. One interesting (and sometimes overlooked) aspect of this is that with two identical mismatches, the composite reflection can be either completely canceled or twice as large as either of the two or anywhere in between. Stub and other types of conjugate matching are special cases where this phenomenon is used to advantage. The bottom line is, as in most things, it depends. 73, Wes -- N7WS From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:14 1996 From: John Wightman Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Cubical Quad Antennas for HF Date: 22 Feb 1996 09:16:49 GMT Message-ID: <4ghca1$31f@midland.co.nz> References: <4fsgkr$2v3@btr0x6.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de> <4g8p7f$hi5@news.paonline.com> I used wide spaced 2 el tri-band quads for 25 years and loved them! Two foot boom with angled spiders and 17 foot fi-glass spreaders enabled me to use 0.2 wavelength spacing. Very easy to tune and good bandwidth. Having to move house only reason I had to part with them. John, ZL1AH. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:15 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Al Koblinski (W7XA)" Subject: Re: Cubical Quad Antennas for HF Message-ID: To: a0378@btr0x7.hrz.Uni-Bayreuth.DE References: <4fsgkr$2v3@btr0x6.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 00:03:09 GMT I've used Cubex hardware for 20 years and never had a mechanical problem. I currently use a 3 el Quad for 20 mtrs, 5 el on 15mtrs and 5 el on 10, all on a 8.5 meter boom (convenient available length here in CA). All 3 are better than the 5 element monobanders (Hygain types) that they replaced and at 20 feet lower. The cubex fiberglass and cast aluminum spiders have never failed in winds up to 140 kph in Arizona dust storms and California rainstorms. I could not be happier with the performance. With less than maximum legal power (800W out) I have worked 300+ countries on 10, 15, and 20 mtrs. You could do the same. Regards, Al From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:16 1996 From: jwg6@cornell.edu (Joel Govostes) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: DIPOLE acting fishy Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:21:43 -0500 Message-ID: I have a dipole up for 10 meters (coax-fed, half wave). The SWR is fine. Yesterday I attached two more "legs," at the center insulator, to make a half-wave for 40 meters fed by the same coax. The 40 meter ant is about perpendicular to the 10 meter ant. SWR looks sweet on 40 meters, all is good so far. Problem is, I try to apply power on 15 meters, and I can't get an SWR below 3:1. I double checked my math, and found that the antenna was about 10 inches short for the bottom of 40 meters. I just added 5" wire to each end. Resonant still at bottom of 40 meters, but on 15 still 3:1 at lowest point. What might be causing the lack of resonance on 15?? BTW feed point is about 20 feet up. THANKS... N1AEP From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:17 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: rod@border.com (Rod Adkins) Subject: Re: Drae Trident 8 Multiband Vertical Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 19:15:13 GMT >Has anyone bought this newish UK made HF vertical >I'm looking for a vertical and am uncertain of whether to go for this >one, a Butternut or one of the GAP models >Please e mail direct as well as replying here to >john@jmsknars.demon.co.uk >Thanks >G3XZV >-- >John M Sonley I have a Butternut HF6V with WARC and B'nut radials. Generally very satisfied. Tunes up as per manual. Low SWR on regular bands; not so low on 18/24 but sti ll usable. Very good reports on 30m. Bear in mind that the radials are essential, and one's real estate is indeed a n antenna farm by the time you have finished. The narrow bandwidth on 80m is a fact of life unless you can figure out a way of remote tuning the coil (I have a design in my head - doesn't seem to have reached the top of the list...) The ant sways alarmingly, but has survived 3 Canadian winters... I did fit a truss to limit bending as I hauled it in the air (I have a homebre w tilt-up). The radials do break off through flexing, and you need to work out some more robust attachment method. Rod, VE3INE From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:18 1996 From: John M Sonley Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Drae Trident 8 Multiband Vertical Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 09:09:23 +0000 Distribution: world Message-ID: Has anyone bought this newish UK made HF vertical I'm looking for a vertical and am uncertain of whether to go for this one, a Butternut or one of the GAP models Please e mail direct as well as replying here to john@jmsknars.demon.co.uk Thanks G3XZV -- John M Sonley From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:19 1996 From: Rod Dinkins Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Drae Trident 8 Multiband Vertical Date: 21 Feb 1996 14:44:21 GMT Message-ID: <4gfb45$8gn@cloner4.netcom.com> References: To: john@jmsknars.demon.co.uk Hello John. Would suggest that you also consider the Cushcraft R5 or R7 and the new Hy-Gain DX-77. Here on the West Coast in San Diego several of us have tried them as well as the conventional 1/4 wave verticals and have found these "half-wave end feds" to perform very very well. -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:20 1996 From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Eggbeater Antenna ??? Date: 26 Feb 1996 22:06:39 GMT Message-ID: <4gtatf$s7g@ionews.ionet.net> References: <321@yebbs.com> To: samir_khayat@yebbs.com samir_khayat@yebbs.com (SAMIR KHAYAT) wrote: >Hi, >I read an Article about the M2 EB-432 Eggbeater Antenna in QST January >96 and would like to know if anyone has the Schematic diagram of the >Antenna so that I can try to make one myself ( I like Home brew antennas) >Any Idea about its DB gain ?? ( Not been mentioned in the Article). > >Best 73's > >Samir ( OD5SK / KC5RYL ) >QTH: JEDDAH - SAUDI ARABIA > >--- > =FE QMPro 1.53 =FE =B0=B1=B2=DB CQ CQ CQ DE OD5SK =DB=B2=B1=B0 > The eggbeater is simply 2 full wave loops (about 100 ohms impedance) feed 90 degrees out of phase. Attach the antennas together with 1/4 wavelength of rg 62 (93 ohm coax) then feed one of them with some 50 ohm coax. Use some ferite beads for a current balun on the feed line. Gain depends on how high above ground you put the antenna. mounted high it has about 3db gain at low angles of radiation. Mounted low (about 1/8 wave) it has gain at very high angles of radiation. Polarazation is horizantal at low angles and circular at high angles (right or left depending on feed arrangment) 73 Hank WA5JRH From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:21 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <321@yebbs.com> Reply-To: samir_khayat@yebbs.com (SAMIR KHAYAT) From: samir_khayat@yebbs.com (SAMIR KHAYAT) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:04:00 GMT Subject: Eggbeater Antenna ??? Hi, I read an Article about the M2 EB-432 Eggbeater Antenna in QST January 96 and would like to know if anyone has the Schematic diagram of the Antenna so that I can try to make one myself ( I like Home brew antennas) Any Idea about its DB gain ?? ( Not been mentioned in the Article). Best 73's Samir ( OD5SK / KC5RYL ) QTH: JEDDAH - SAUDI ARABIA --- þ QMPro 1.53 þ °±²Û CQ CQ CQ DE OD5SK Û²±° From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:21 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Message-ID: <324@yebbs.com> Reply-To: samir_khayat@yebbs.com (SAMIR KHAYAT) From: samir_khayat@yebbs.com (SAMIR KHAYAT) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 00:04:00 GMT Subject: Eggbeater Antenna ??? Hi, I read an Article about the M2 EB-432 Eggbeater Antenna in QST January 96 and would like to know if anyone has the Schematic diagram of the Antenna so that I can try to make one myself ( I like Home brew antennas) Any Idea about its DB gain ?? ( Not been mentioned in the Article). Best 73's Samir ( OD5SK / KC5RYL ) QTH: JEDDAH - SAUDI ARABIA --- þ QMPro 1.53 þ °±²Û CQ CQ CQ DE OD5SK Û²±° From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:22 1996 From: Paul Christensen Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Florida Ham Antenna Restrictions - ch125.htm (0/1) Date: 19 Feb 1996 14:03:26 GMT Message-ID: <4g9vve$dd8@usenet.continental.com> References: <199602011849.MAA05482@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> <4f7v2j$296@news.atlantic.net> <4fqpsu$143k@news.gate.net> <4ftgjc$jtf@usenet.continental.com> <4g5e8k$mm@lal.interserv.net> To: goose@atlantic.net >Although a good idea, and I'm sure many hams would thank you, would >there ready be enough "Business" in 1 state to warrent specializing in >Antenna restrictions? Richard: My statement wasn't altogether serious, but upon graduation, I would like to assist other amateurs in these matters. My legal education will focus on both telecommunications and intellectual property law. -Paul, N9AZ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:23 1996 From: Paul Christensen Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Florida Ham Antenna Restrictions - ch125.htm (0/1) Date: 19 Feb 1996 14:02:14 GMT Message-ID: <4g9vt6$dd8@usenet.continental.com> References: <199602011849.MAA05482@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> <4f7v2j$296@news.atlantic.net> <4fqpsu$143k@news.gate.net> <4ftgjc$jtf@usenet.continental.com> <4g5e8k$mm@lal.interserv.net> To: goose@atlantic.net >Although a good idea, and I'm sure many hams would thank you, would >there ready be enough "Business" in 1 state to warrent specializing in >Antenna restrictions? Richard: My statement wasn't altogether serious, but upon graduation, I would like to assist other amateurs in these matters. My legal education will focus on both telecommunications and intellectual property law. -Paul, N9AZ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:25 1996 From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: re: G5RV Date: 22 Feb 1996 16:44:45 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gi6ht$kad@chnews.ch.intel.com> >Hi Cecil, I see in the rest of your message u mention using 300 >ohm line. I've used 450 ohm line on my G5RV. By taking the coax >out of the line, my antenna seems to work better now. My >question: does the use of the 450 ohm line require a balun? >Scott N0XZY werling@safe.ia.gov Hi Scott, according to my simulations, taking the coax out of the line results in better performance on some bands and worse on others unless a good balanced antenna tuner is used. Since commercially available balanced antenna tuners are in short supply, many hams settle for a lossy situation involving a balun and an unbalanced antenna tuner. Remember, "balun" means balanced to unbalanced. The G5RV dipole is balanced and the 450 ohm line is balanced. Your transmitter is probably 50 ohms, unbalanced. To keep RF off your shack ground (chassis) you need a balun of some sort even if it is a 1:1 choke-type balun. Your antenna has a relatively high SWR on all bands and therefore will never exhibit a 450 ohm resistive impedance. Unless you somehow measure the actual impedances, you will never really know if your system is optimized. The necessary measurements are very easy to make with ladder-line. Ask TechnoLogic Concepts about their "ladder lizard". IMO, the best thing one can do is replace the unbalanced tuner with a switchable balanced network that achieves a Z0-match before any reflected energy can get to the balun. TechnoLogic Concepts is preparing a "how-to" application note on the subject. They can be reached at tlcdhconsult@delphi.com I have no monitary connection to TLC but Don, KE6AJH, of DHConsulting is a personal friend of mine. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:26 1996 From: Al Konschak Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: G5RV on 160 meters Date: 22 Feb 1996 01:00:11 GMT Message-ID: <4ggf6r$7m2@news.voicenet.com> References: <4g8ers$1to@news.voicenet.com> To: mhaydon@olivet.edu Michael Haydon wrote: >Currently use a Double g5rv, 204foot on 160, fed with 450 ohm twinlead, >driving it with a knwd ts-830, works fb > > >On 19 Feb 1996, Al Konschak wrote: > >> Does anyone have the dimensions for a G5RV to be used on 160. >> I've tried the method of shorting out the input and driving >> it as a "T" but have had limited success. There must be a longer >> design that will work on 160. >> >> Thanks >> WI3Z >> Al >> Question? Do you use the same length of twinlead? Al From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:28 1996 From: Rod Dinkins Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: GOOFY ANTENNAS -- RF GOTTA GO SOMEWHERE! Date: 22 Feb 1996 14:48:54 GMT Message-ID: <4ghvom$t0q@reader2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4gfgi7$ajb@cloner4.netcom.com> Almost forgot about my neighbor Paul who back many years ago loaded up a garbage can lid -- six meters I think -- it was published in Ham magazines. Oh yes the legendary 2M stacked beer can antenna (required a hardy beer lover to drink all the beer prior to construction) The ARRL Antenna Handbook makes reference to bedspring antennas as well as an apartment dweller who loads up the nearest fire escape. Recently in a Ham magazine an enterprising Amateur loaded up (as I recall) a Dodge Station Wagon!! Or was it 2 of em?? Dodge Dipole ??? And of course you can load up a flagpole -- except in California where many CC&R's forbid flag poles -- durn un-patriotic sez I! One can audio modulate a light beam and demodulate it on the other end-- haven't tried modulating with RF tho. Disclaimer EFFICIENCY OF ALL GOOFY ANTENNAS NOT GUARANTEED If it is metal -- load it! RF Gotta Go Somewhere!--- AC6V -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:29 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: James Mills Subject: GPS Satellite Coverage Message-ID: <1996Feb22.133349.59573@ucl.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 13:33:49 GMT Hi All Does anybody know what the signal level at the user would be in dB/sq meter for a GPS satellite. I playing around with some antennas. Thanks Jon Mills j.mills@ee.ucl.ac.uk From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:30 1996 From: jchol@aol.com (JCHol) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hazer for Rohn 25G Date: 25 Feb 1996 17:19:55 -0500 Message-ID: <4gqnab$632@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <3120EFE3.7786@mail.one.net> Reply-To: jchol@aol.com (JCHol) I am now using the steel heavy duty hazer for a fifty ft. Rohn 25 tower. I have one set of guys attached to the hazer. I have an A-3 stacked about 8 ft. above a 40 meter beam (KLM). Am very happy with it and have had no problems, no hanging up, etc. Solved my tower climbing problems! 73 de John, WA5TWL From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:31 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Help Needed: UHF, H-Polarize, Omni Dir. antenna with *GAIN*. HOW? Message-ID: <1996Feb24.113636.22922@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4gask1$1f3@erinews.ericsson.se> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 11:36:36 GMT In article <4gask1$1f3@erinews.ericsson.se> mike.groves@memousa.ericsson.se (M ike Groves) writes: >OK you guys (gals), I've got a problem in need of an answer. > >If money were no object, how would one go about getting any kind of >gain from an antenna at a repeater sight that was horizontal polarized >and "semi" omni directional? (I actually only need about 160 degrees >of coverage as the repeater is located part-way up a hillside, >overlooking a valley.) This will be used on the 440 MHz band. Since you need less than a hemisphere of coverage, why not just use a stacked colinear array of horizontal dipoles in front of a reflector? The horizontal pattern will be similar to a single dipole, but the vertical pattern is compressed, giving you gain toward the horizon. I assume this is to be an ATV repeater given the requirement for horizontal polarization. This type of antenna used to be common for TV reception and is called a stacked bowtie array. (Fanned dipoles, IE looked like a bowtie, were used to broaden the VSWR bandwidth for TV.) Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:32 1996 From: mnewton@ici.net (Mike) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner Subject: Help on finding/creating custom? mobile antenna. Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 15:16:11 GMT Message-ID: <4ga39g$a4m@crusher.ici.net> I'm looking to add a multi-band scanner antenna (30Mhz - 900Mhz) to my car (station wagon with LOTS of ground-plane area!!). The thing I would like to accomplish is to keep it under 24" in length so I don't destroy my new garage doors every time I pull the car in. I know this may be a dumb reason to some of you, but the less painting I have to do, the better :-) I'm willing to try and experiment with making one or if you know of one that already exists, great. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks. (e-mail is appreciated too). Mike From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:33 1996 From: jafinlay@aol.com (Jafinlay) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help to receive LA 90.7FM in SD Date: 21 Feb 1996 04:11:46 -0500 Message-ID: <4genki$fbe@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: jafinlay@aol.com (Jafinlay) Folks, I used to live in LA and enjoyed listening to KPFK 90.7 FM. I moved to San Diego and I can get KPFK in my car pretty well around town, esp. if I head North, but I can't get it at all in my condo. I have tried several power FM antennas I bought at radio shack but none work on my stereo in my home. Does anyone have any ideas of what kind of anntenna I can install in my condo in order to get this station? It is pretty strong but I think it is getting lost in all the others. Tx for any help you can give me. Judith From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:34 1996 From: rlc@soho.ios.COM Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: HF Mobile Magnetic Mount Date: 25 Feb 96 12:22:54 GMT Message-ID: <199602251723.MAA11927@soho.ios.com> Can anyone give me feedback on using any type of HF antenna with the extra large multi-pad magnetic mounts? Bob AA2UV (rlc@soho.ios.com) From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:35 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dts@peanut.senie.com (Daniel Senie) Subject: Re: HF Mobile Magnetic Mount Message-ID: <4gqq0j$449@peanut.senie.com> References: <199602251723.MAA11927@soho.ios.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:05:55 GMT In article <199602251723.MAA11927@soho.ios.com>, wrote: >Can anyone give me feedback on using any type of HF antenna with the >extra large multi-pad magnetic mounts? Bob AA2UV >(rlc@soho.ios.com) I've had good luck with a mount that has four 5-inch magnets in an H pattern. On this I've mounted a quick disconnect and run a Carolina bug Katcher (40 meters through 10 meters), and alternate that with a 75 meter hamstick. All this was mounted on the roof of my Pathfinder, so I had to watch bridges under 13 feet. Looked pretty neat, though! Dan -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie Internet: dan@senie.com, Daniel Senie Consulting n1jeb@senie.com http://www.senie.com Packet Radio: N1JEB@KA1SRD.MA From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:36 1996 From: ptracy@aol.com (PTracy) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 21 Feb 1996 18:03:41 -0500 Message-ID: <4gg8cd$h8r@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ga68v$pao@newsbf02.news.aol.com> In article <4ga68v$pao@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, woodybozak@aol.com (Woodybozak) writes: > However, if you want to use what Larsen recommends, they >sell (or used to sell) their own 3/4" saw that also removed a 1/16" area >of paint beyond the hole to provide a good ground connection for the brass >nut/vehicle body. Yes, I believe they still do. I borrowed on from a buddy of mine. The Larsen hole saw did a real nice job, much better than the typical Lennox / hardware store variety. As I recall the "blade" had a much finer pitch than the typical hole saw. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:36 1996 From: mitch@primenet.com (mlmitchell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 25 Feb 1996 18:00:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3130f769.9798758@news.primenet.com> References: <4ga68v$pao@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4gg8cd$h8r@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: mitch@primenet.com ptracy@aol.com (PTracy) wrote: >In article <4ga68v$pao@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, woodybozak@aol.com >(Woodybozak) writes: > >> However, if you want to use what Larsen recommends, they >>sell (or used to sell) their own 3/4" saw that also removed a 1/16" area >>of paint beyond the hole to provide a good ground connection for the >brass >>nut/vehicle body. > >Yes, I believe they still do. I borrowed on from a buddy of mine. The >Larsen hole saw did a real nice job, much better than the typical Lennox / >hardware store variety. As I recall the "blade" had a much finer pitch >than the typical hole saw. MOTOROLA also makes and sells a similar unit for the 3/4" hole for the NMO mount, which, by the way, was a Motorola original, long before Larsen thought of it . From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:38 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 22:17:33 LOCAL Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> In article "Ian White, G3SEK" writes: >From: "Ian White, G3SEK" >Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 20:14:38 +0000 [snip snip snip] >One way around this problem would be to borrow a second, identical >tuner. Tune the first one into the antenna system as usual, for minimum >VSWR at the TX end. Then connect the second tuner back-to-back into a >50-ohm absorption wattmeter (or Bird 43 and dummy load) and tune that >one also for minimum VSWR at the TX end. The power loss (in dB) in a >single tuner will be one-half of the total. See below. >That would get around the problem of measuring output power into an >arbitrary complex impedance, and also get around the problem that the >loss in any tuner will depend on the impedance to be matched. >Note also that the loss in a tuner that has more than two independent >adjustments (eg two variable Cs and a variable L) will also depend on >which combination of settings you choose. Even though there will be many >ways to achieve a 1:1 match, different combinations of settings will >affect the loaded Q and hence the loss. I have mentioned this in this group before. Without an OUTPUT indicator of some kind, you can effect a match with an infinite number of settings (of three variables). Only one will be the lowest loss condition. With components of reasonable unload Q, the differences between optimum an worst case can be many dB. Unfortunately, this is also true when running the above experiment. Therefore, the loss in one tuner may not be one half of the total. Some of the blanket statements (not Ian's) in this thread cry out for rebuttal. To say a tuner is lossless is absurd. To say that an arbitrary tuner will be more efficient when the load Z is higher than lower or the converse is just not true or that the left side of the Smith chart is better than the right (which way are you holding it BTW?). Without more specificity as to the configuration of the tuner one cannot justify statements such as these. [snip] Wes -- N7WS From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:39 1996 From: chestert@crosslink.net (Chester Alderman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 22 Feb 1996 05:24:24 GMT Message-ID: <4ggum8$cg7@zeus.crosslink.net> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> Reply-To: chestert@crosslink.net In message <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> - tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7AS R) writes: :> :>How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming :>when in use? :> :> All depends on the RF loss within your tuner. Two way you can find out for sure: 1) Connect a RF power meter on the tuner input and output and read the difference between the two.; 2) Use a signal generator and calibrate its output power into a power meter. Have your tuner tuned to the input and output impedance you want to match. Connect your signal generator to the input of the tuner and connect a power meter to the output connector of the tuner. Measure the loss through the tuner, in dB, and that is your losses through your tuner. It should be less than a half a dB (and if not, you need to fix it or get a better tuner). Using the dB loss figure, you can calculate the power loss through your tuner (tuned for the specific conditions under which you made the measurement), no matter what the RF power level is. Tom/W4BQF chestert@crosslink.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:40 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 06:59:35 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <4genna$208@maureen.teleport.com> <4ghj93$4uh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> In article <4ghj93$4uh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) writ es: >From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) >Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? >Date: 22 Feb 1996 06:15:47 -0500 >Hi All, >[snip] >With only 5% power loss, the coil became so hot it smelled and gave off a >little smoke after a few minutes of 1500 watt carrier. The heat was >confined to the inductor. The tuner arced (the caps) at 1400 watts with >the ten ohm load, 1600 watts with the 50 ohm load, and 2300 watts with the >800 ohm load. The arcing was rather inconsistant, so those values are only >approximate and show a trend only. They were made with a 500 uS pulsed >carrier. >I find it very difficult to understand how a large tuner can dissipate >more than 100-150 watts without blowing some serious smoke out! Especially >since this tuner had a good open coil (air wound, no form) that allowed >air to circulate. Something is going on that we are missing here. Does >anyone know what the QST article gave for loss? Your numbers are as good as theirs. I think maybe duty cycle is the difference. Assuming a 50% trans/rec factor and the intermittent nature of SSB or CW, the average dissipation is way down from what you measured. Besides, we often forget that 75 W (your example) into a 75 W light bulb makes it too hot to touch rather quickly. When we speak of fractions of a dB, we can lose sight of this. >And more important, I wonder if RF is bad for the brain? Maybe I should >turn the power off when I sniff the coil next time. Brain? I thought your head was ferrite-loaded. Keeping the common-mode current choked you know... You bent over that coil, and detuned it. That's where your efficiency went. >73 Tom 73, Wes From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:42 1996 From: k4kxo@netside.com (Kenneth Ferguson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 01:28:46 GMT Message-ID: <4gfk3h$ktd@nntp.netside.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> Theoretically, an antenna tuner does not dissipate power, de k4kxo. macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: >In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) writ es: >>How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming >>when in use? >> >>Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of it, measure > the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the powe r > out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. > 73's WD9AHF - Jim From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:44 1996 From: "Ian White, G3SEK" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 20:14:38 +0000 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> In article <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com>, Roy Lewallen wrote: >In article <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com>, macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: >>In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) >writes: >>>How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming >>>when in use? >>> >>>Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of >it, measure >> the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the >power >> out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. >> >> 73's WD9AHF - Jim > >The problem with doing that, Jim, is that the impedance on the output of >the tuner may not be anywhere near 50+j0 ohms. (After all, that's why we >need tuners, no?) If you know where I can get a wattmeter I can insert into >a feedline looking into 2000 - j600 or 2 + j750 ohms and get an accurate >(or even approximate!) reading, please let me know! One way around this problem would be to borrow a second, identical tuner. Tune the first one into the antenna system as usual, for minimum VSWR at the TX end. Then connect the second tuner back-to-back into a 50-ohm absorption wattmeter (or Bird 43 and dummy load) and tune that one also for minimum VSWR at the TX end. The power loss (in dB) in a single tuner will be one-half of the total. That would get around the problem of measuring output power into an arbitrary complex impedance, and also get around the problem that the loss in any tuner will depend on the impedance to be matched. Note also that the loss in a tuner that has more than two independent adjustments (eg two variable Cs and a variable L) will also depend on which combination of settings you choose. Even though there will be many ways to achieve a 1:1 match, different combinations of settings will affect the loaded Q and hence the loss. All you need to do is find someone else who has the same kind of tuner and is equally keen to know the losses. 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:45 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: References: <4genna$208@maureen.teleport.com> <4gi1oa$f4q@zippy.cais.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 16:25:16 GMT What about measuring the rise of temperature within the tuner to determin the btu's produced and converting btus into watts? I suppose a thick layer of insulation would be necessary to keep the heat in. Maybe that would be the most conclusive way to settle this. Radio Shack has a cheap digital thermometer with a probe. Sufficient care would have to be taken to guard against RFI on the probe though. -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:46 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 19:03:41 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <4gista$3lta@theory.tc.cornell.edu> In article <4gista$3lta@theory.tc.cornell.edu> Kevin Schmidt writes : >From: Kevin Schmidt >Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? >Date: 22 Feb 1996 23:06:18 GMT >"Ian White, G3SEK" writes: >>One way around this problem would be to borrow a second, identical >>tuner. Tune the first one into the antenna system as usual, for minimum >>VSWR at the TX end. Then connect the second tuner back-to-back into a >>50-ohm absorption wattmeter (or Bird 43 and dummy load) and tune that >>one also for minimum VSWR at the TX end. The power loss (in dB) in a >>single tuner will be one-half of the total. >This can work if the load to be matched is resistive, but the >tuners will otherwise be tuned to complex conjugate impedances. >You can see this by imagining you are matching a 50 ohm resitor in >series with a 50 capacitive reactance. An L network tuner would be >a 50 ohm inductive reactance in series and no parallel component. >The other tuner would have to be a 50 ohm capacitive reactance in series to >tune out this inductance. By the way, the method given in the QST >article also only works for resistive loads. This is the exact example I was ready to use to respond to Ian's response to my response:-) Kevin beat me to it. Even in this case, the losses will probably not be the same in both tuners. The series cap should have an unloaded Q much higher than the series inductor. Therefore, the inductive side will have (slightly in this case) higher loss than the capacitive side. This just goes to show that this measurement is NOT trivial, QST articles not withstanding. Wes -- N7WS >Kevin w9cf@ptolemy.la.asu.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:48 1996 From: Jeff DePolo WN3A Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 01:02:27 -0500 Message-ID: <312D5873.708B@intermediainc.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> Roy Lewallen wrote: > >The other impedance, 2 + j750 is a 50-ohm SWR of 5650, requiring the Bird >to read a forward power of 141,300 watts forward and 141,200 watts reverse. >This isn't really a realistic impedance, since even a tiny bit of feedline >loss would lower the SWR below this value. I'd be hard-pressed to resolve a 100 watt difference on a 250kW Bird slug ;-) I would think a calorimetric measurement would provide more accurate results, although the technique for doing such that doesn't require submersion may not be all that easy to do at home. I would imagine that it would be more difficult to make and use an air-based calorimeter, especially one that would yield results as accurate as a submersion-based one. Maybe the tuner could be placed in a thermally-conductive, liquid-tight container and then submerged? Anyone with more knowledge on the subject care to comment? Also, this all may be for naught as the losses in the tuner will vary greatly with load impedance and frequency among other things, so a few data points would only give a general picture of the efficiency of a particular tuner. --- Jeff From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:49 1996 From: "Ian White, G3SEK" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 16:13:36 +0000 Distribution: world Message-ID: <2B5xCCAwYJLxEwzU@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> In article , Wes Stewart wrote: >In article "Ian White, G3SEK" > writes: > > >>One way around this problem would be to borrow a second, identical >>tuner. Tune the first one into the antenna system as usual, for minimum >>VSWR at the TX end. Then connect the second tuner back-to-back into a >>50-ohm absorption wattmeter (or Bird 43 and dummy load) and tune that >>one also for minimum VSWR at the TX end. The power loss (in dB) in a >>single tuner will be one-half of the total. > >See below. > >>That would get around the problem of measuring output power into an >>arbitrary complex impedance, and also get around the problem that the >>loss in any tuner will depend on the impedance to be matched. > >>Note also that the loss in a tuner that has more than two independent >>adjustments (eg two variable Cs and a variable L) will also depend on >>which combination of settings you choose. Even though there will be many >>ways to achieve a 1:1 match, different combinations of settings will >>affect the loaded Q and hence the loss. > >I have mentioned this in this group before. Without an OUTPUT indicator of >some kind, you can effect a match with an infinite number of settings (of >three variables). Only one will be the lowest loss condition. With components >of reasonable unload Q, the differences between optimum an worst case can be >many dB. Unfortunately, this is also true when running the above experiment. >Therefore, the loss in one tuner may not be one half of the total. Wes is absolutely right, of course! When using two identical tuners with three adjustments each, you'd need to set one (any one) adjustment in the tuner 2 to exactly the same as in tuner 1. The other two adjustments in tuner 2 should then come out the same when you tune for minimum VSWR. Buddhist master says: You can never adjust your antenna tuner the same twice. Zen Buddhist master says: You can never adjust your antenna tuner the same even once! 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:51 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 22 Feb 1996 06:15:47 -0500 Message-ID: <4ghj93$4uh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4genna$208@maureen.teleport.com> Hi All, I did some long hand calculations on a T network. I've got to get one of these new spice programs, hi. Anyway, my figgers are rownded. As I recalled, a traditional T net falls apart with low Z -j loads on 160. Here's what I calculated for a typical 225 pF maximum C roller inductor tuner at 1500 watts: Load 10 ohms, Cin 100pF(5.5a, 4800v), Cout 225pF(12a, 4800v), L 24.1uH (17.5a, 4800v). Load 10 ohms -200j, Cin 67pF(5.5a,7300v), Cout 225pF(12.3a, 7300v), L 36.2uH (17.9a,7300v). Load 3000 ohms, Cin 225pF(5.5a,2170v), Cout 125pf(.7a,502v), L 34.3uH (5.6a,2188v). From this it is easy to see the best loads are high Z, the poorest loads are low z capacitive reactive loads. By the way, I was looking at a proto-type roller inductor tuner today using 225 pF caps and a 12 ga roller coil. I used a Delta Electronics operating RF bridge with internal ammeter option to measure the load. Into a non-reactive ten ohm load the efficiency was ~92%, a 50 ohm load ~95%, and an 800 ohm load produced ~98% eff. This tuner followed expectations as calculated above. With only 5% power loss, the coil became so hot it smelled and gave off a little smoke after a few minutes of 1500 watt carrier. The heat was confined to the inductor. The tuner arced (the caps) at 1400 watts with the ten ohm load, 1600 watts with the 50 ohm load, and 2300 watts with the 800 ohm load. The arcing was rather inconsistant, so those values are only approximate and show a trend only. They were made with a 500 uS pulsed carrier. I find it very difficult to understand how a large tuner can dissipate more than 100-150 watts without blowing some serious smoke out! Especially since this tuner had a good open coil (air wound, no form) that allowed air to circulate. Something is going on that we are missing here. Does anyone know what the QST article gave for loss? And more important, I wonder if RF is bad for the brain? Maybe I should turn the power off when I sniff the coil next time. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:52 1996 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 21:51:32 GMT Message-ID: <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> In article <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com>, macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: >In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) writes: >>How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming >>when in use? >> >>Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of it, measure > the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the power > out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. > > 73's WD9AHF - Jim The problem with doing that, Jim, is that the impedance on the output of the tuner may not be anywhere near 50+j0 ohms. (After all, that's why we need tuners, no?) If you know where I can get a wattmeter I can insert into a feedline looking into 2000 - j600 or 2 + j750 ohms and get an accurate (or even approximate!) reading, please let me know! 73, Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:54 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 23 Feb 1996 10:26:57 -0500 Message-ID: <4gkmc1$4a2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: In article , n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) writes: >Some of the blanket statements (not Ian's) in this thread cry out for >rebuttal. To say a tuner is lossless is absurd. To say that an arbitrary >tuner >will be more efficient when the load Z is higher than lower or the converse >is >just not true or that the left side of the Smith chart is better than the >right (which way are you holding it BTW?). Without more specificity as to the > >configuration of the tuner one cannot justify statements such as these. > >[snip] > >Wes -- N7WS Hi Wes, I disagree with you on something (finally, it took years!). ;-) We can make a general statement that applies to traditional T net tuners on low frequencies (as I did). The main limitation in the efficiency is a lack of sufficent output C range (too little C) for matching low Z loads. The lack of sufficent C causes the tuner to operate at higher Q than necessary. The voltages and currents in the tuner components become MUCH higher than necessary for a given to match the load, and so do losses. This condition is aggrivated by a capacitive load. Such a load requires more output C than a resistive load, and there allready is a shrt fall! The operating Q and losses are forced even higher by this condition! In the practical world of traditional low band T network tuners efficiency is always lowest with low Z capacitive loads. Do a spead sheet on a T network, and you'll see what I mean. (Unless a tuner with a LCL T or huge capacitors is assumed!) 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:55 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: dstock@hpqmdla.sqf.hp.com (David Stockton) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 10:12:10 GMT References: <2B5xCCAwYJLxEwzU@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> Ian White, G3SEK (G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk) wrote: : Zen Buddhist master says: You can never adjust your antenna tuner the : same even once! Hey! you *can* calculate the capacitance of a capacitor with only one plate! a true Zen antenna tuner is a possibility. In a world where anything different sells.... (You've not heard rumours of a certain "Global Domination" class ATU from 'ROO, have you?) Cheers David From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:56 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: <1996Feb24.092314.22293@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gfk3h$ktd@nntp.netside.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 09:23:14 GMT In article <4gfk3h$ktd@nntp.netside.com> k4kxo@netside.com (Kenneth Ferguson) writes: >Theoretically, an antenna tuner does not dissipate power, de k4kxo. Snicker. And theoretically a bumble bee can't fly. When reality doesn't match your theory, your theory is wrong (or at best is being misapplied). No tuner has infinite unloaded Q, so all tuners dissipate power. The question of interest is "how much?" Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:57 1996 From: jsutton@erols.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 22 Feb 1996 15:22:50 GMT Message-ID: <4gi1oa$f4q@zippy.cais.net> References: <4genna$208@maureen.teleport.com> > w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: > In article <4gaomd$b2v@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com>, > "Tom V. Pfaffenbach" wrote: > >Hi Tom; > > > >An easy way is to use an RF ammeter and a resistive dummy load. Tune your > >transmitter into the load directly and set it for highest reading on the > >ammeter. P=I*I*R. > > > >Now go thru your coupler and tune again for maximum ammeter reading. > >Again P=I*I*R. P1-P2=lOSS. > > > >We are assuming that your best power output occurs at approximately the > >same power input level, in both cases. Generally this is valid, but you > >can also verify the input level independently. It is important that you > >make the measurements with a resistive load. > > > >DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF YOU FIND LOSSES IN THE ORDER OF 15-30%. > > > >Happy DXing 73-K9JDU > > The problem here is that the tuner loss can vary dramatically depending on > the load impedance. The suggested method will tell you the loss when > the tuner is presented with a purely resistive load, but not by the actual > load presented by the feedline. If you know the load Z and have an RF > ammeter you can calculate the output power as I^2*R where I = the magnitude > of the output current and R = the resistive part of the load impedance. Or > you can measure the RF output voltage and calculate the output power as > V^2/R where V is the magnitude of the output voltage and R is the parallel > equivalent R of the output Z. But you have to know the output Z. > > Roy Lewallen, W7EL > >>>> If you wish to get an idea of the loss expected from a theoretical view get a copy of TL.Zip from ARRL. This is a program that will calculate the optimum component values for a T - L or Pi net work given the Z of the antenna, transmission length and transmissio n line Z. It will also calculate the max voltage on the line and the location of the peak v oltage. Of course to be accurate you must know the component parts of the antenna Z. You can guess - or calculate it from one of the antenna programs - or measure it with some of the test equipment available from several sources. 73/Jim/AC4CZ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:58 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 22 Feb 1996 16:30:26 GMT Message-ID: <4gi5n2$lhb@news.ios.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com In <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com>, w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: >In article <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com>, macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: >>In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) >writes: >>>How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming >>>when in use? >>> >>>Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of >it, measure >> the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the >power >> out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. >> >> 73's WD9AHF - Jim > >The problem with doing that, Jim, is that the impedance on the output of >the tuner may not be anywhere near 50+j0 ohms. (After all, that's why we >need tuners, no?) If you know where I can get a wattmeter I can insert into >a feedline looking into 2000 - j600 or 2 + j750 ohms and get an accurate >(or even approximate!) reading, please let me know! > >73, >Roy Lewallen, W7EL I think I'd reexamine my antenna choice. Jim WD9AHF From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:57:59 1996 From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 23 Feb 1996 18:29:44 GMT Message-ID: <4gl12o$ldj@news.asu.edu> As somewhat a deviation from this thread, consider the absurdity of the tuner similar to the conventioanal T with the capacitors in series across the top BUT with a variable capacitor ACROSS the inductor. The circulating currents in the inductor in this absurdity can be disasterous. Charlie, W7XC -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:00 1996 From: Kevin Schmidt Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 22 Feb 1996 23:06:18 GMT Message-ID: <4gista$3lta@theory.tc.cornell.edu> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> "Ian White, G3SEK" writes: >One way around this problem would be to borrow a second, identical >tuner. Tune the first one into the antenna system as usual, for minimum >VSWR at the TX end. Then connect the second tuner back-to-back into a >50-ohm absorption wattmeter (or Bird 43 and dummy load) and tune that >one also for minimum VSWR at the TX end. The power loss (in dB) in a >single tuner will be one-half of the total. This can work if the load to be matched is resistive, but the tuners will otherwise be tuned to complex conjugate impedances. You can see this by imagining you are matching a 50 ohm resitor in series with a 50 capacitive reactance. An L network tuner would be a 50 ohm inductive reactance in series and no parallel component. The other tuner would have to be a 50 ohm capacitive reactance in series to tune out this inductance. By the way, the method given in the QST article also only works for resistive loads. Kevin w9cf@ptolemy.la.asu.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:02 1996 From: kb2rmi@pop3.frontiernet.com (robbin decker) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 17:21:41 GMT Message-ID: <4gkif3$ev0@cheatum.frontiernet.net> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <312D5873.708B@intermediainc.com> Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote: My thoughts are that it has always been exceedingly difficult to properly configue the ants to accept coaxial connecting devices, and in order to do so the proper surgical equipment is very difficult to obtain without a certificate of authority from the State Board of Entomology, although the policy probably varies from State to State. It is my understanding that there is a degree of inductance variance between different factions of Army ants, the Clintonian variety being particularly difficult to induct. The carpenter would afford the largest hardware interface but could be detrimental to wood burning test equipment. A solid warning is that any such tests should be done in strict secrecy as the possibility of disruption by factions of PETA, Greenpeace, ASPCA, Handgun Control International, and other organizations dedicated to prevent such unscrupulous activities exists. Measuring the loss of RF power when using an ant tuner, not to mention the mere act of tuning an ant to begin with, would surely disrupt the morning tofu and granola indulgences of the membership. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:03 1996 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 01:48:12 GMT Message-ID: <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> In article <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) wrote: >In article <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: >>The problem with doing that, Jim, is that the impedance on the output of >>the tuner may not be anywhere near 50+j0 ohms. (After all, that's why we >>need tuners, no?) If you know where I can get a wattmeter I can insert into >>a feedline looking into 2000 - j600 or 2 + j750 ohms and get an accurate >>(or even approximate!) reading, please let me know! > >Ahem. Roy, the wattmeter only has to have the same impedance as the >*characteristic* impedance of the line, regardless of what load impedance >may be terminating the line. If the output coax is 50 ohms (the usual >case), then your trusty Bird 43 will work just fine. Of course, since >the line won't have a unity VSWR, you'll have to calculate true output >power from the forward and reverse readings on the wattmeter. > >Gary Gary's right -- I shouldn't have dismissed the directional wattmeter out of hand. Using the impedances I snatched from the air: 2000 - j600 is an SWR of 43.6 in a 50 ohm system. This probably isn't an unreasonably high SWR to see with a multi-band antenna fed with ladder or open wire line. With 100 watts of power, the trusty Bird should read a forward power of 1141 watts and reverse power of 1041 watts. It might be possible to resolve the difference well enough to get an idea of the actual power being transmitted. The other impedance, 2 + j750 is a 50-ohm SWR of 5650, requiring the Bird to read a forward power of 141,300 watts forward and 141,200 watts reverse. This isn't really a realistic impedance, since even a tiny bit of feedline loss would lower the SWR below this value. So, the Bird 43 with a high-power slug might, after all, be adequate for measuring the output power to determine loss, as long as the SWR (in the 50 ohm wattmeter) isn't too outrageous. Thanks for the correction, Gary. Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:04 1996 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 18:23:52 GMT Message-ID: <4gstq5$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> In article <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) wrote: >For a balanced tuner, we'd want to use hot wire ammeters, and a RF >voltmeter that we could move along the line, to determine power out. >The RF voltmeter would let us directly determine VSWR and give us >a direct tuner output voltage reading. Combined with the RF current >readings of the hot wire ammeters (one in each leg) we could then >determine power out by cranking the formulas. It's not obvious to me how this would work. Wouldn't we have to know the phase angle between the voltage and current to determine the power? Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:05 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 23:17:38 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> Wes Stewart writes: >just not true or that the left side of the Smith chart is better than the >right (which way are you holding it BTW?). Without more specificity as to the >configuration of the tuner one cannot justify statements such as these. Hi Wes, maybe I was assuming too much. With a Smith chart normalized to 300 ohms and a 50 ohm input tuner, it is best to operate the tuner on the low impedance side of the Smith chart rather than on the high impedance side. Doesn't everybody know that infinity is on the right? :-) The general neighborhood of 50 ohms on a 300 ohm Smith chart is a circle centered at 0.167, on the low impedance side. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:06 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:28:19 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> In article Cecil Moore writes: >From: Cecil Moore >Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 23:17:38 -0500 >Wes Stewart writes: > >>just not true or that the left side of the Smith chart is better than the >>right (which way are you holding it BTW?). Without more specificity as to th e >>configuration of the tuner one cannot justify statements such as these. > >Hi Wes, maybe I was assuming too much. With a Smith chart normalized to >300 ohms and a 50 ohm input tuner, it is best to operate the tuner on >the low impedance side of the Smith chart rather than on the high >impedance side. Doesn't everybody know that infinity is on the right? :-) >The general neighborhood of 50 ohms on a 300 ohm Smith chart is a circle >centered at 0.167, on the low impedance side. On the other hand... with a Smith chart normalized to 50 ohm, 300 is on the right (infinity) side. So this must make the right side the right side . Unless of course, infinity is to the left in which case the right side is the wrong side. I suggest a new convention. If the antenna is horizontal and greater than a half wavelength long, we hold the chart with infinity to the right. If the antenna is horizontal and 1/2 lambda or less in length, we hold the chart with infinity to the left. Verticals; infinity is up, loops; it's down. End of confusion. Then for more fun, let's always normalize the chart to the load impedance. Think of how much fun we can have if the chart center represents say--- 17 + j47. Philip Smith would be proud. Regards, Wes -- N7WS (76% of an OOT) > >73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:07 1996 From: pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: how to build a simple Hi-Q loop antenna Date: 22 Feb 1996 02:42:29 -0500 Message-ID: <4gh6p5$2g2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4gb8b5$qeb@oskgw.osk.sony.co.jp> Reply-To: pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw)
Sounds like a nice design...very interesting. How critical is tuning of the variable capacitor? Can you tune the antenna without sandpapering your fingertips first? --Wayne W5GIE in Redlands, CA From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:08 1996 From: Vance Campbell Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: how to build a simple Hi-Q loop antenna References: <4gb8b5$qeb@oskgw.osk.sony.co.jp> Message-ID: <312d011b.0@news.provo.novell.com> Date: 22 Feb 96 23:49:47 GMT Peter, Sounds interesting. What sort of performance, (Bandwidth, SWR, gain, directionality, etc.) do you get? 73 WA7ROI From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:09 1996 From: bigtrain9@aol.com (BigTrain 9) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Isoloop HF 10-30 Date: 23 Feb 1996 14:23:44 -0500 Message-ID: <4gl480$8e8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: bigtrain9@aol.com (BigTrain 9) Any comments out there in the nether land concerning this antenna for us condo covenant challanged individuals? Ron, KB7WC From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:10 1996 From: Jim Daneke Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Isoloop HF 10-30 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 15:23:25 -0700 Message-ID: <312E3E5D.6DE7@ix.netcom.com> References: <4gl480$8e8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> BigTrain 9 wrote: > > Any comments out there in the nether land concerning this antenna for us > condo covenant challanged individuals? > > Ron, KB7WC only works 10-30. Who works 10-30? From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:11 1996 From: AC6V Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Isoloop HF 10-30 Date: 23 Feb 1996 22:39:50 GMT Message-ID: <4glfnm$an9@cloner3.netcom.com> References: <4gl480$8e8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <312E3E5D.6DE7@ix.netcom.com> One of our Hams here in San Diego has worked DXCC with an AEA Isoloop. Another has worked 50+ countries just recently on the bands (bad as the band are). I talked to a US Ham who claimed 100+ countries on all its bands. A station in Haiti used one on his balcony with 50 watts in and would chide the USA Hams for running kilowatts. Yep they work -- perhaps not as well as outdoor types -- but Ms Clipboard of the HOA don't "lough" no antennas round here!!! 73 -- Rod -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:13 1996 From: wb6siv@cyberg8t.com (Raymond Sarrio) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Large Searchable Ham Classifieds @ http://www.csz.com/sarrio.html Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 21:19:45 -0800 Message-ID: The Raymond Sarrio Company¹s Ham Radio WWW site is proud to announce a FREE Ham Radio classified advertising page at http://www.csz.com/sarrio.html. This new classified page will allow Hams to find equipement with the help of a search engine--no need to scroll through 100¹s of listing before you find that special piece of gear. Plus, when you find the gear you'er interested in, you are also provided with easy point-and-click e-mail access, directly to the Ham that listed the item. For those Hams with gear to sell, take note! there is NO charge to list your equipment within Ham Classifieds, and there will be no posting time delays. Your posting(s) will go on-line in our classified search engine within about 1 hour. All you need do is fill out a simple forms page, and upon its (point-and-click) submission your ³For Sale² classified is immediately on-line. I will be purging the classified listings initially, about once every month, but that timeline will shorten as our classified numbers grow. 73¹s, Ray -- The Raymond Sarrio Co. a full feature Ham Radio Storefront on tth WWW at http: //www.csz.com/sarrio in association with Brillar Enterprises http://win-win.co m/brillar an Extensive Discount CD-Rom Catalog! From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:13 1996 From: drw1@aol.com (DRW1) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Loop Skywire Ant Date: 23 Feb 1996 14:07:29 -0500 Message-ID: <4gl39h$862@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: drw1@aol.com (DRW1) Looking for information on building, installing, operating on a loop skywire. What is best position for minimum radiatin angle? What is best point to attach coax? etc. any help will be greately appreciated. Don KB5QPN From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:14 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Loop Skywire Ant Message-ID: References: <4gl39h$862@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 00:58:55 GMT Make it resonant at the lowest operating frequency. For 80 meters, I recommend 3530kc or so. This will enable the multiples to fall within the higher bands. I feed mine with a 4:1 current balun and RG8x coax. Results show a very low, less than 1.5:1 swr on all multiples. You will need a tuner on the WARC bands. I tried using coax directly to the loop and RFI problems ensued. Also the swr was too high. Don't do this. I tried using 300 ohm balanced line with the balun in the shack. This worked quite well but on the warc bands I did experience some rfi on the computer. Coax and balun seems like the most tame choice. DRW1 (drw1@aol.com) wrote: : Looking for information on building, installing, operating on a loop : skywire. What is best position for minimum radiatin angle? What is best : point to attach coax? etc. any help will be greately appreciated. : Don KB5QPN -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:16 1996 From: AC6V Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 24 Feb 1996 05:01:52 GMT Message-ID: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> References: <1996Feb23.201810.11807@schbbs.mot.com> To: efs003@email.mot.com Hi Frank, I have had an R5 for several years now and it is a real winner for DX. On the long haul it really performs well. Around the US -- its just OK. Don't compare an R5 with a dipole at 20 to 30 feet working domestically. Dipoles at these heights, depending on the band, can have a quite high angle of radiation and bomb into close in stations (several hundred miles) Check out the R5, R7's on the long haul (DX as it were). Here the R5 is mounted on an eight foot water pipe secured to the rear concrete block fence. HOA problems prevent height. I feel that the "half wave end fed" R5 has a very low angle of radiation and is highly efficient compared with a 1/4 wave with a few skimpy radials. I have had several 1/4 wave verticals ground mounted with six or more radials and there is just no comparison. At my previous QTH, I had inverted vees and dipoles at 25-30 feet -- great for working USA, but forget DX, I'll take em at 80 feet tho. Brag tape for the R5 follows: (got the qsl's for em) 106 countries with 6 watts into the R5 (early 90's) not easy but achievable. Longest QRP Haul -- was Mozambique on 15 Meters -- 17,020 kilometers from San Diego with six watts!! With 600 Watts (AL-811A) and the R5: -- A61, 3W, C9, 5X, A92, R1FJL, 9U, 9H, ZA, SU, 5T, Trindade, XT, S92, 3D2 Conway, Eritrea, 5R, XW, ZL8 Kermadec, Peter Isle and many log pages more -- these were the tough ones and they are mostly long haul DX from here. Interestingly I have a heck of a time getting to Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas with an R5 -- suspect I'm going right over em. Bombs into W1, W2 and the Carribean tho. As in the previous reply, ground conditions and obstructions can make or break you. Another San Diego Ham here had the R5 at about 25 feet on his house and switched to 8 or 9 feet to reduce TVI and saw very little difference. E-Mail me if you want to correspond with him, he is not on the internet. A station in Nevada tested the Gap, the R7 and the DX-77. The R7 and DX-77 were clear winners at HIS QTH with the R7 and DX-77 a push except for 40M where the DX-77 had a slight edge. Half wave, end fed, ground mounted - verticals do function very well -- but they "ain't no beam" even tho they may think so. Excuse the brag tapes, but offered as proof of the pudding. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You can get more respect with a wet noodle and a linear than just a wet noodle --- Big Al from Chicago. (The Untouchables Movie quote) 73 Rod -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:18 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Message-ID: References: <1996Feb23.201810.11807@schbbs.mot.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 00:53:57 GMT Frank, I can tell you this. I had an R7 installed on a 6ft metal post. it was way out in the clear on 2 acres of flat land. 40 meter performance was amazingly close to that of my 160 meter loop at 65 feet. 30 meters was good but 20 and above was way down in comparison. I then put it on top of my 60ft tower. 40 meter performance was horrible for any distance. The higher bands only slightly improved. In my opinion, If you install one of these little verticals, no matter which kind, in an open area above a decently reflective ground, it will outperform one that is mounted high. However, if you have a lot of surrounding buildings, trees, power lines etc. it will probably do better at greater heights due to less absorbtion. Last. Almost any resonant wire without traps will outperform a trap vertical at any practical height. On 20 meters, a dipole mounted only 30 feet above ground has a very nice low angle lobe for dx work. Verticals do too but the angle of radiation is soooooo low that a lot of signal is lost in the ground and in surrounding objects not to mention the losses in the traps. Consider also that if a vertical has several traps, a certain amount of RF will be lost in every trap, not just one. That all adds up. Personally I tend to think the Butternut is the best choice. Just from experience over the years, I seems like the strongest signals come from them. Gap antennas are too weird for my liking. BTW, putting the R7 on the tower was a frightful experience. I tilted the tower over and bolted it on the top. The antenna sagged so badly in that position that I was surprised it survived. I was extreemely flimbsey up there and I doubt that it would have lasted through a stiff breeze. I don't recomment trying this with out guying the antenna which would be a real mess. I only did this as an experiment. Once I was satisfied, I sold the R7 to someone who needed it worse than I. Your R5 may be a bit more rugged due to it's shorter length. -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:19 1996 From: AC6V Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 25 Feb 1996 15:31:42 GMT Message-ID: <4gpvcu$nbn@reader2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4gn6du$qus@cloner3.netcom.com> My original motivation for the R5 ground mount post was: If u can't get an antenna up in the air (CC&R's etc) try an R5, R7 or DX-77 they work! We restricted Calif Hams love em. Listen for us in the pileups 73 Rod -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:20 1996 From: woodybozak@aol.com (Woodybozak) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 24 Feb 1996 02:49:22 -0500 Message-ID: <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> Reply-To: woodybozak@aol.com (Woodybozak) Hmmmmm.....how much Cushcraft stock does this guy own anyway? This is the first time I have heard any amateur rave about an R-series antenna. Maybe I and the dozen or so hams I hang out with all bought the R5-L version...L for LOUSEY! We've done many, many side-by-side tests with the R5 vs. dipoles at various heights. The R5 was ALWAYS at least 3 to 6 db down from the dipoles on both local and DX. I did better with an MFJ tuner and a random wire INSIDE my attic (and I have the QSLs to prove it) than the R5 at different heights outdoors. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:21 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Message-ID: References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4gn6du$qus@cloner3.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:23:30 GMT Dont' take this wrong but I want to make a very clear statement here. Measuring antenna performance by the number of dx stations worked and their location means absolutely NOTHING. Remember the old Gotham Vertical advertisements from the 60's? "I worked the world with my Gotham Vertical"!!! THIS MEANS NOTHING. Period....... Only direct comparison test, A-B switching done several times or field strength measurements give any meaningful data. Thanks. Have a nice day. :*) -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:27 1996 From: woodybozak@aol.com (Woodybozak) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 24 Feb 1996 02:39:32 -0500 Message-ID: <4gmfbk$ng0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: woodybozak@aol.com (Woodybozak) I agree with N4LQ ! Also, from my experience with an R5 (in a box in my garage...anyone want to buy it?) a random wire will out perform an R5 on most any band - a dipole cut to the resonant frequency will do even more. I think $200 for an antenna tuner plus a few dollars for a long-wire antenna or simple dipole is a MUCH better use of funds, compared with the $279 or so that Cushcraft wants for the R5. Don't get me wrong, I think Cushcraft makes some good antennas, such as their 2 meter amateur & commercial units. However, I think the R-series is WAY over rated in the Cushcraft ads. But, if you don't have room for a random wire, dipole or beam, I guess the R-antennas are better than nothing. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:28 1996 From: jjo@tekla.fi (Jari Jokiniemi) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 26 Feb 1996 06:04:08 GMT Message-ID: References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> The problem being that when you do not make field strength measurements or have an opportunity to switch between the antennas to be compared, the differences must be outstanding in order to be properly notified. When you have two antennas within, say 3 dB (which is a lot), random variables may hide the true results. This is the way you get opinions like "it works great", which truly means that the fellow is satisfied with his antenna. It does not actually say much about the antenna itself. It is like measuring fever with a hand. You notice that yes indeed, the poor fellow has fever, but you don't know how much. -- Jari Jokiniemi, jari.jokiniemi@tekla.fi, OH2MPO, OH3BU Tekla Oy, Koronakatu 1, 02210 Espoo, 90-8879 474 From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:30 1996 From: Joe Fitter BV/N0IAT Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 26 Feb 1996 07:17:11 GMT Message-ID: <4grmpn$a0n@tilde.csc.ti.com> References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4gn6du$qus@cloner3.netcom.com> n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) wrote: >Dont' take this wrong but I want to make a very clear statement here. > >Measuring antenna performance by the number of dx stations worked and >their location means absolutely NOTHING. >Only direct comparison test, A-B switching done several times or field >strength measurements give any meaningful data. > >Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky I disagree in-part. While field-strenght indications may be useful to determine the amount of RF leaving the antenna, it alone tells little about the angle of maximum radiation. Angle of radiation is important when "working DX". I'd rather have an antenna of 50% efficiency optimized for maximum raddiation angle of 16 to 18 degrees with a 5 degree beamwidth, than an antenna of 95% efficiency with a radiation angle of 45 degrees and same beamwidth. The high angle is ineffective. Now the problem....how does one measure field strength at a specific angle of radiation? Anyone have some ideas? Thanks, Joe ---------------------------------------------------------- Amateur Radio: BV/N0IAT Taipei TAIWAN Republic of China ex. 7J1AOF (Japan) YU3/N0IAT (Slovenia) KA0ZDH (Novice) Licensed Radio Amateur since 1986. Comments are mine only. ---------------------------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:31 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Message-ID: References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4gn6du$qus@cloner3.netcom.com> <4grmpn$a0n@tilde.csc.ti.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:05:37 GMT : Now the problem....how does one measure field strength at a specific : angle of radiation? Anyone have some ideas? : It's simple if you have a helicopter and a good FS meter -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:32 1996 From: AC6V Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 26 Feb 1996 16:00:09 GMT Message-ID: <4gsle9$ina@reader2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> To: woodybozak@aol.com Woody -- just got a reply from Frank the original writer of the R5 Height question. He reported improved results with the R5 compared to a dipole at 40 feet. Son of a Gun! What can one say ? R5's ARE! DX IS! ---- AC6V 73 IT WAS AN INTERESTING ROUND ROBIN -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:33 1996 From: tomcar@newshost.li.net (Tom Carrubba) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 24 Feb 1996 11:56:52 GMT Message-ID: <4gmue4$c8m@linet06.li.net> References: <1996Feb23.201810.11807@schbbs.mot.com> Frank Scutch (efs003@email.mot.com) wrote: : Hi fellas: : I just picked up an R5 to play with and initially have it mounted on a : 10 ft mast in my back yard. I think it works fine considering it's : size. I have noticed that it doesn't really perform any better than : some of the wire arrays I'm already using in the yard. : Question: Would the antenna perform any differently at maybe 30 or 40 : feet than it does at 10 ft? Before I go through the trouble of putting : it up higher... can someone tell me if will even matter? Seems I : remember a post where someone mentioned that there is no diffence in : performance. I'm not looking for a beam's performance out of a vertical : but just want to know if it's worth it. Thanks. : Frank, WB4AYJ Hi frank, I went through the routine with my R5, it works well at 10 or 20ft.. I tried 30 and 40ft, but the swr match started to get flakey. I finally settled for 20ft....it worked fine, and the swr match was as published. 73-- ============================================================================ Tom Carrubba "To err is human, but to really foul N. Babylon, NY things up requires a computer......" KA2DFO packet radio| ka2dfo@kc2fd.ny.usa.na ============================================================================ From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:34 1996 From: tomb@lsid.hp.com (Tom Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite.tvro,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.ham-radio,alt.support.turner-syndrom,alt.radio.digital Subject: Re: Need : IF/RF Detectors Date: 21 Feb 1996 16:33:06 GMT Message-ID: <4gfhg2$f92@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> References: mecc@mb.fukuoka.infoweb.or.jp wrote: : Hi there, I am looking for IF/RF detectors/detector diodes for micropower : measurements (100 MHz - 2 GHz). Has anybody had any good or bad experiences : whith this products ? Has anybody know manufactures which produce such parts . My employer, and I'm sure others, make detector diodes intended for use at zero bias. There is a pretty good article about them in the December, 1995, "Hewlett Packard Journal." If you would be happy with an SOT-23 package, the HSMS-2850 might be worth looking at. At low power levels, the output into the proper load is nearly linear in voltage versus input power; that diode has about 100mV/uW sensitivity in the frequency range you are interested in. You should be able to measure down to nanowatt levels with homebrew stuff; that's a fraction of a millivolt of RF. -- Cheers, Tom tomb@lsid.hp.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:35 1996 From: mecc@mb.fukuoka.infoweb.or.jp Newsgroups: rec.video.satellite.tvro,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.ham-radio,alt.support.turner-syndrom,alt.radio.digital Subject: Need : IF/RF Detectors Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 09:32:09 PDT Message-ID: Hi there, I am looking for IF/RF detectors/detector diodes for micropower measurements (100 MHz - 2 GHz). Has anybody had any good or bad experiences whith this products ? Has anybody know manufactures which produce such parts. Thanx in advance for any help. N. Alexander e-mail: mecc@mb.fukuoka.infoweb.or.jp From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:35 1996 From: rickcrider@aol.com (RICKCRIDER) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Need Info: Trylon Tower.....? Date: 22 Feb 1996 18:55:33 -0500 Message-ID: <4givpl$i1g@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: rickcrider@aol.com (RICKCRIDER) Seeking information on a tower that has been donated to us, to be dissassembled and removed. Made by Trylon Mfg. Co., possibly from Ontario/Canada...... It is freestanding, triangular, 44" leg to leg at base. Nine eight foot sections. Top section is missing. Base buried in slab. Will have to cut at base. Trylon still in business? Any U.S. distributors? Top section still available? Currently mounted in a 5 1/2 foot square concrete base.....any idea how deep the slab would need to be? Any contact information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Rick Crider KD4FXA UCARS (Union County Amateur Radio Society) (704) 289-6303 From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:36 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: shelj@holli.com (Jeffery Shelton) Subject: need mod for ft1000mp Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 03:11:47 GMT need gen transmit mod for yeasu ft1000mp can anyone help???? any help would be apprieciated jeff at j&s electronics e-mail= shelj@holli.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:37 1996 From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: need plans for 6m antenna Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 19:42:03 GMT Message-ID: <4gfs0e$cjv@news1.inlink.com> References: <4gaqpe$884@news-e2a.gnn.com> <4gasnj$3vp@newsbf02.news.aol.com> denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) wrote: >are you looking for a ground plane or other? >N9RLR/2 Check my web page under Copper Cactus multi-band antenna, it can be constructed as a monobander using the same numbers. http://www.inlink.com/~raiar TTUL - 73+ de Gary - KG0ZP From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:38 1996 From: MMcanally@gnn.com (Mark McAnally) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: need plans for 6m antenna Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 15:43:54 Message-ID: <4gaqpe$884@news-e2a.gnn.com> Does anyone know of a source for a simple yet effective dipole or vertical 6m homebrew antenna? Thanks in advance KE4QKN in Milton, FL From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:39 1996 From: denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: need plans for 6m antenna Date: 22 Feb 1996 16:33:11 -0500 Message-ID: <4ginen$f90@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4gfs0e$cjv@news1.inlink.com> Reply-To: denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) actully someone before was inquiring on how to construct a 6 m antenna and I was only asking what type...etc. I never saw a response from him. It is nice to see someone actually reads these postings. N9RLR/2 From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:40 1996 From: sid@hal-pc.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: need plans for 6m antenna Date: 26 Feb 1996 17:53:35 GMT Message-ID: <4gss2v$riu@news.hal-pc.org> References: <4gaqpe$884@news-e2a.gnn.com> The ARRL Antenna Book has many antennas for 6 meters; such as, dipoles, yagis, loops, etc. All easy to build yourself. Just remember the formula length = 468/(frequency in Mhz) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sid George, CPA sid@hal-pc.org ._ _... ..... _.._ .._ http://www.hal-pc.org/~sid ------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:41 1996 From: Dennis Doonan Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: NVIS Antenna Question Date: 22 Feb 1996 15:29:28 GMT Message-ID: <4gi24o$dvf@ns.oar.net> Hello, I am trying to dig up some information on the NVIS (Near Vertical Incident Skywave) antenna. As I understand it, it was used by the military for short range (100 -- 300 mile) communications on hf (4 MHz). Variations appear to be permanent installations, field installations, and vehicular installations. Is this similiar to the old "Cloud Warmer" antenna? Are there any published references? Will this function as a "short" antenna for 80/75? TNX 73 de KG9DO, Dennis doonan@cordmc.dnet.etn.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:42 1996 From: Glenn.Schultz@f100.n282.z1.fidonet.org (Glenn Schultz) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Patch antenna Message-ID: <824919777.AA05435@hamlink.mn.org> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 13:43:25 -0100 QST did an article on building a patch antenna for GPS units. My brother-in-law built it and it works great. Not sure which issue, but I think it was Nov95 Good luck! Glenn, N0VYK From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:43 1996 From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: power and voltage Date: 22 Feb 1996 19:17:40 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gifgk$14ao@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us About power, voltage and dB: 1) Consider two "test" points within a circuit or equipment. 2) Point 1 has a voltage E1 Volts across R1 Ohms 3) Point 2 has a voltage E2 Volts across R2 Ohms. 4) The power ratio in dB=20*log(E1/E2)+10*log(R2/R1) 5) If R1=R2 then the power ratio is 20*log(E1/E2) 6) The practical problem is that very often R1 and R2 are unknown and may even be difficult to measure or calculate. 7) But quite often we can use a voltmeter to compare E1 and E2 with the values that were measured in a circuit that was known to be functioning correctly (a reference circuit). 8) This is a "diagnostic" or "troubleshooting" tool that is very useful. It is often convenient to express the ratio E1/E2 as a voltage dB ratio. This practice had its roots in high impedance vacuum tube gear, but it is still used and is practical in low impedance solid state circuits. For example voltage ratios at every stage of a receiver can be measured and tabulated in dBs using instruments that do not disturb the circuits. 9) If a problem is discovered then it may be necessary to measure R1 and R2 as well as many other things. 10) There is nothing wrong with this practice as long as the ground rules are understood. There was never any intention to equate voltage ratios with power ratios. 11) On a power basis when *designing* equipment the concepts of "available power", "available gain", and "transducer" gain are preferred methods for analyzing and tabulating system performance. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:44 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner Date: 22 Feb 1996 10:05:44 -0500 Message-ID: <4gi0o8$883@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4gbmqc$bo0@news.asu.edu> In article <1996Feb21.170053.10833@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) writes: > >[I wrote] >>The step was set at 6 db because that represented a doubling of power, >>IE a 3 db power change is a 6 db voltage change, and that was the >>smallest *significant* signal strength change detectable by the ear. >>(I *know* that's a corruption of db, but that's the way they did it >>then. They talked about voltage db and power db. Today we'd use 20*log >>and 10*log and get power db every time.) > >Now very carefully read the parenthetic remark. The OTs in the >literature I was referencing tended to be a bit sloppy in what >they called a "db". I'm curious about the sources of information. If you knew all that, why did you tell Cecil two S units was 12 dB? Do you still use voltage dB, has that stuck in some area of the industry? I thought that comment just stemmed from common but UNTRUE misconceptions that: 1.) S units are defined as 6dB by an industry standard. 2.) S meters are calibrated and can actually be used to indicate the actual improvement. Where does the UHF-VHF standard you mentioned (something like 5 mV for S9???) come from? I'm curious of the history of these standards, because for years I've always had to answer "I dunno, sometime in the 40's but it never caught on." 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:45 1996 From: lyle@MadVax.mo.ti.com (Lyle Murphy) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Question about AM/SW Date: 22 Feb 1996 14:56:15 GMT Message-ID: <4gi06f$9s5@superb.csc.ti.com> I enjoy listening to AM and Short Wave (SW) talk shows. But I never can get good reception (if I can get reception at all.) The radios I am using are cheap. So I have this question: Should I build a crystal radio making a major large (1 to 2 foot) coil/variable capacitor trap antenna with a schotky diode (for the lowest forward bias of .3v). The large trap circuit I hope will bring in a very strong signal (question here is can I reach SW?) to make it work. Someone please help me out. This would be a fun project but don't know if it will work. Regards, Lyle (the inventor) From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:46 1996 From: Rod Dinkins Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Question about AM/SW Date: 22 Feb 1996 15:17:26 GMT Message-ID: <4gi1e6$1jv@reader2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4gi06f$9s5@superb.csc.ti.com> To: lyle@MadVax.mo.ti.com Probably the most critical element for receiving any radio signal is the antenna. Take a look at "Easy-Up Antennas for Radio Listeners and Hams" by Edward M. Knoll, ISBN 0-672-22495-X. Lots of antennas here made out of inexpensive easily obtained parts such as PVC Pipe. Covers Broadcast Band, Short Wave Bands (By Meters), Ham, VHF etc. The plans are simple and easy to construct and they work. Good SWLing Rod -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:47 1996 From: deanap@teleport.com (Dean) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Rabbit ears better than roof top tv antenna? Date: 25 Feb 1996 16:09:33 GMT Message-ID: <4gq1jt$2t7@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> I know that must sound rather stupid but this is the problem I am having. I recently moved into a new house. It has no cable service. When I first set up my TV I hooked up a cheap set of rabbit ears. I received a few stations fairly well and a couple others not as well. I also picked up a UHF station I had never seen before. (I only moved about a mile from where I lived before) Anyway, I figured if I could pick these stations up this good with rabbit ears, with a roof top antenna they should be perfect. I bought a 59 element VHF/UHF/FM antenna. I mounted it in the attic for now just to see how much better the reception would be. To my utter surprise it was not much better than the rabbit ears! One of the stations came in a little better, most of the others about the same. The one UHF channel that I had never seen before does not come in at all???? Now I realise that mounting it on the roof would be better and should increase the performance, but the rabbit ears were laying on their side on top of my set. The attic of my house is much higher than that. I am using RG6 cable for the roof top antenna straight into the TV. The rabbit ears use twin lead. Could I possibly have a bad matching transformer? Or is the antenna being in the attic the problem? Or maybe I just have a crappie antenna. But anything has got to be better than rabbit ears, right? As you may be able to tell I am not real knowledgeable about antennas. And I know this is not a radio antenna problem, but this seemed like the place to go for an educated opinion. Thanks for any help you may be able to give me with this matter. Dean deanap@teleport.com P.S. Could you please send e-mail as well as post any comments here. I would like to make sure I don't miss anyones messages. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:49 1996 From: Per Stangeland Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.noncomm,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.swap Subject: Re: Radio Database Program LW, MW, SW coverage for YOU..... Date: 22 Feb 1996 19:50:43 GMT Message-ID: <4gihej$3q6@nms.telepost.no> References: <4gduns$sio@news.flinet.com> To: chuck@mail.flinet.com Charles Bolland wrote: >FRIENDS, > >If you would like a free copy of a radio database program that covers >longwave, mediumwave, and shortwave with at least 4,000 of records, send >your NAME, POSTAL ADDRESS, and EMAIL address to chuck@flinet, and I will >return the program to you via EMAIL. > >The program is not up to date! It is a program used during 1994 and >hasn't be updated since. However, many of the records are still current >for stations that do not change every quarter. > >The program is good until June 6, 1996. After that it will not function. > >Hope to hear from you and don't forget your Postal Address for >registration and future information via mail.. > >All addresses will be kept confidential! > >Chuck > >chuck@flinet.com > > My address is: Per Stangeland Luftfartsverket Luftveien 16 N-3440 Royken Norway. Best Regards Per From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:50 1996 From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: S Units Date: 21 Feb 1996 20:03:22 GMT Message-ID: <4gftqa$251@news.asu.edu> Gary writes (Gary Coffman) writes: >There *is* a standard (two of them actually), but unfortunately >most amateur gear doesn't adhere to it. An S-unit is defined as >6 db, and S9 is defined as 50 uV across 50 ohms at the receiver >input. (The second standard is for VHF where S9 is equal to 5uV.) The service manual for my TS940 says to calibrate the S meter by setting a specific signal generator to 8 dB and adjust to ra// read S1 on the meter then set to 40 db for S9 Repeat as they interact of course. This indicates that 9 - 1 = 8 and 40 - 8 = 32 dB for about 4 dB per S unit. I believe this to be closer to whhat manufacturerers use than the much discussed 6 dB.  Excuse wrong call on previous posting, please. Charlie, w7XC -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:52 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: S Units Date: 23 Feb 1996 10:29:02 -0500 Message-ID: <4gkmfu$4b2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: In article , jjo@tekla.fi (Jari Jokiniemi) writes: > >It is quite unfortunate that few radios adhere to 6 dB / S unit. My >IC-751 is one of the worst. From S1 to S9 a S unit is about 1 >dB. Above S9 each dB in the meter is pretty close to 1 true dB. >-- >Jari Jokiniemi, jari.jokin Hi Jari, The reason they don't is because there is NO 6 dB standard! It's just a popular rumor. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:53 1996 From: jjo@tekla.fi (Jari Jokiniemi) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: S Units Date: 23 Feb 1996 06:00:55 GMT Message-ID: References: <4gftqa$251@news.asu.edu> It is quite unfortunate that few radios adhere to 6 dB / S unit. My IC-751 is one of the worst. From S1 to S9 a S unit is about 1 dB. Above S9 each dB in the meter is pretty close to 1 true dB. -- Jari Jokiniemi, jari.jokiniemi@tekla.fi, OH2MPO, OH3BU Tekla Oy, Koronakatu 1, 02210 Espoo, 90-8879 474 From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:54 1996 From: Michael Valentine Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: S-meter Calibration Rumors Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 11:57:33 -0800 Message-ID: <312E1C2D.3E59@ix.netcom.com> > > Where does the UHF-VHF standard you mentioned (something like 5 mV for > S9???) come from? I'm curious of the history of these standards, because > for years I've always had to answer "I dunno, sometime in the 40's but it > never caught on." > > 73 Tom Hi all, I used to work for R.L. Drake in the late '60s and early '70s in engineering. We used the 50 microvolts as S-9 standard and I never did hear where it came from. The 5 microvolts at VHF/UHF, I speculate, comes from having a 20 dB conversion gain transverter ahead of the HF receiver being used as the IF. We used to giggle about how some of the lower-priced manufacturers would calibrate their S-meters to make the receiver look "hot". If my receiver reads S-9 on a signal that your 75S3-B reads as S-6, my radio is better than a Collins rig, right? Oh well, the world was ever thus. Cheers! Mike WA8MSF From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:54 1996 From: barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) Subject: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: 23 Feb 96 22:28:20 -0800 Message-ID: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. Any ideas? Barry Himes KF6AZU From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:55 1996 From: suther@atcon.com (Sutherland) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 14:55:53 GMT Message-ID: <4gn95k$in4@thor.atcon.com> References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> Reply-To: suther@atcon.com VE1EA suther@atcon.com Don't believe everything you hear I also worked W5LFL and got him with 45 watts with a home built 9 elementquad 15 db gain element pacing is 11 5/8 ... cut your driven element for the freq that you want to work most ...but the ant is very forgiving .. reflector is 5% larger each director 1 through 5 each go down 5% and the last two 6 7&7 are tyhe same size. Mine is built on an 8 ft piece of 2x2 and dowels support the elements are cross drilled vertically to hold elements made of 1/8 in aluminum ground wire bought from Radio Shack If you figure the gain at 15 db ...that gives me an effective 1440 watts with 45 watts input Which repeater do you want me to melt down today??? HI HI Another friend of mine worked th the american on MIR mobile in his car from a shopping center parking lot while waiting for his wife IT CAN BE DONE and it doesn't take a kilowatt have fun es 73 de Brett n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) wrote: >In article <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) write s: >>From: barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) >>Subject: shuttle communication on 2 meter >>Date: 23 Feb 96 22:28:20 -0800 >>I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want >>to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be >>built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. >>Any ideas? >>Barry Himes KF6AZU >As one of only about 350 hams who contacted the first shuttle op, W5LFL, I >suggest that you forget trying with an HT. There will be hundreds of people >calling and on FM, it's the big guy that captures the receiver. I recommend >1500W and 20 dB of antenna gain. Worked for me:-) >73, Wes -- N7WS From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:56 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: 26 Feb 1996 00:13:37 GMT Message-ID: <4gqtvh$dpl@news.fwi.com> References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com In , n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) writes: >In article <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) write s: >>From: barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) >>Subject: shuttle communication on 2 meter >>Date: 23 Feb 96 22:28:20 -0800 > >>I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want >>to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be >>built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. > >>Any ideas? >>Barry Himes KF6AZU > > >As one of only about 350 hams who contacted the first shuttle op, W5LFL, I >suggest that you forget trying with an HT. There will be hundreds of people >calling and on FM, it's the big guy that captures the receiver. I recommend >1500W and 20 dB of antenna gain. Worked for me:-) > >73, Wes -- N7WS > Barry, Looks like Wes there is teasing you a little. Maybe he can come with a 50 db antenna design for you that'll boost your 2 watt HT to 200,000 Watts Effectiv e Radiated Power output. Just be careful who you point that thing at! P.S. I see you've 'hamming' for just about a month. Welcome to the zoo. Jim WD9AHF From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:57 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: greg@core.rose.hp.com (Greg Dolkas) Subject: Re: Slide Rule Wanted Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 20:37:47 GMT References: <3127A50C.661B@tir.com> "Bill C." (wrc@tir.com) wrote: : Heh, : : I love watching jaws drop at Field Day when I whip out a baterry-less : slide rule to assist with antenna problems ;) : : Bill You should have seen them when I used mine to take the Advanced test... Greg KO6TH From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:58 1996 From: jemac@mail.carol.net (Jeffery L. McMahan) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Slide Rule Wanted Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 05:24:44 UNDEFINED Message-ID: References: <1996Feb13.185614.22597@rgfn.epcc.edu> <4ften0$jb1@nyx.cs.du.edu> <3127A50C.661B@tir.com> In article <3127A50C.661B@tir.com> "Bill C." writes: >Heh, > I love watching jaws drop at Field Day when I whip out a baterry-less >slide rule to assist with antenna problems ;) > Bill I love the expression on people's faces when I whip out the spare batteries for my HP-48 :D Jeff From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:58:59 1996 From: Richard Kiefer Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Spacing between stacked yagis Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 17:09:18 -0800 Message-ID: <312FB6BE.7F0A@athena.csdco.com> References: <4gd3u1$p7h@chnews.ch.intel.com> Ranson J. Pelt wrote: > > In article <4gd3u1$p7h@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com > (WB7ASR) wrote: > > > Im making plans on installing a Cushcraft A3 3-element 20/15/10 meter > > yagi on the same mast with a homebrew 2-element 12/17 meter yagi. > > > > What minimum spacing is required between the two yagis to pervent > > interaction? > > > > Tom... > > I have a 10/12/17 Yagi combination stacked over a 20/15 yagi about 5 or 6 > feet- never had any problems > > -- > Ranson Pelt > pelt@vt.edu > nz4iIf you would really like to check the interaction model a couple of similar antennas using EZNEC. You can try all kinds of spacing and guywires in a couple hours, saving lots of time on the tower. Dick Kiefer, K0DK From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:00 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: charles1@netcom.com (charles copeland) Subject: Re: SWR=3:1 How do I lower it? Message-ID: References: Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 03:52:57 GMT In article , wrote: >I have a small 6m SQLOOP antenna and my meter says I have a 3:1 SWR. >What can I do to lower the SWR? Don't know about your particular loop antenna, but: 492/54mhz = 9.11 feet for 1/2 dipole end to end should have good SWR. Better yet make a 1/4 wave ground plane. One element 4.55 feet vertical, three 4.55 foot elements pointing 45 degrees down from horizontal plane. You can adjust 45 degree angle to get exactly 1:1 SWR. This antenna would be 6.4 feet tall, small enough to fit in a room. You could make it out of wire. Hang from ceiling, tie off lower elements with string. From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:01 1996 From: Edward Lawrence Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: SWR=3:1 How do I lower it? Date: 26 Feb 1996 21:33:06 GMT Message-ID: <4gt8ui$ofl@fcnews.fc.hp.com> References: <4gkshn$5u5@fcnews.fc.hp.com> <4gst78$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) wrote: >In article <4gkshn$5u5@fcnews.fc.hp.com>, Edward Lawrence wrote: >>sco@sco-inc.com wrote: >>>I have a small 6m SQLOOP antenna and my meter says I have a 3:1 SWR. >>>What can I do to lower the SWR? > >Just out of curiosity, why do you want to lower the SWR? > >Roy Lewallen, W7EL Roy, I responded to this, I did not originate it. I suggested that he set the size to bring it into resonance, then adjust his matching network to match it to the 50 ohm coax. WA5SWD Ed From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:01 1996 From: "James M. Toney, Jr." Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: T2FD Date: 24 Feb 1996 19:27:59 GMT Message-ID: <4gnorv$3sq@news2.widomaker.com> To: all Does anyone have a list of references for the Tilted Terminated Folded Dipole? I've built a couple but am looking for some more refs. Jim From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:02 1996 From: Rich Griffiths Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Verticals in Trees/Radials Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 08:58:45 -0500 Message-ID: <312F1995.364F@shell.monmouth.com> References: <4fv54h$9ia@news1.usa.pipeline.com> Richard P. McCoy wrote: > > On Feb 12, 1996 20:23:15 in article , > 'ashworth@plaza.ds.adp.COM (Dennis Ashworth)' wrote: > > >So, from a performance standpoint, does anyone see a problem using > >small gauge steel galv wire versus expensive copper? > > Try using aluminum electric fence wire. Steel is a poor conductor compared > to copper. > > Good luck, > Dick, N4UN Also, galvanized steel corrodes amazingly fast in loamy soil, so don't plan on burying it. Aluminum is a good idea, and copper wire isn't all that expensive if you buy it in 500 or 1000 ft spools. Rich Griffiths, W2RG From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:03 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What are the optimum heights for Yagi ant's for 40,20,15,&10 mtrs? Date: 22 Feb 1996 16:20:34 GMT Message-ID: <4gi54i$lhb@news.ios.com> References: <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com In <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu>, bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonneau ) writes: > Could someone please help me with the optimum heights to install HF yagi s on a tower in New England? I have read a couple of antenna handbooks and fr om what I read it seems that the following heights would work. However, I hav e no practical experience with these beams and how they actually perform at di fferent heights...Here are the proposed heights of each beam: > > 40 mtr 3 or 4 ele at = 115ft > 20 mtr long boom 4 or 5 el = 100ft > 15 mtr 6 ele = 100ft > 10 mtr 6 ele = 110ft > >My goal is to get an optimum setup for DX. If anyone could tell me what they think of these proposed heights, I'd really appreciate any info I could get. Thanks in advance! > Brad NZ1Y > > I think your going to "do real good". Just make sure you have a good ground system on that tower. Those heights should give you some outstanding signals don't skimp on the feedline, You'll lose that great height advantage. For the heck of it, if you have a PC with windows, snag my program down from the internet address in the post "Kinda dissapointed II' and you can see what different feedlines will cost you, as you vary the type and length of coax. Jim WD9AHF From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:04 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What are the optimum heights for Yagi ant's for 40,20,15,&10 mtrs? Date: 22 Feb 1996 16:33:02 GMT Message-ID: <4gi5ru$lhb@news.ios.com> References: <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com In <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu>, bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonneau ) writes: > Could someone please help me with the optimum heights to install HF yagi s on a tower in New England? I have read a couple of antenna handbooks and fr om what I read it seems that the following heights would work. However, I hav e no practical experience with these beams and how they actually perform at di fferent heights...Here are the proposed heights of each beam: > > 40 mtr 3 or 4 ele at = 115ft > 20 mtr long boom 4 or 5 el = 100ft > 15 mtr 6 ele = 100ft > 10 mtr 6 ele = 110ft > >My goal is to get an optimum setup for DX. If anyone could tell me what they think of these proposed heights, I'd really appreciate any info I could get. Thanks in advance! > Brad NZ1Y > > P.S. The program can be ftp'ed from: 137.80.1.2 /pub/hamradio/incoming/TEEREV.ZIP Jim From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:06 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Al Koblinski (W7XA)" Subject: Re: What are the optimum heights for Yagi ant's for 40,20,15,&10 mtrs? Message-ID: To: bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu References: <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 23:54:03 GMT I think your 10,15,20 meter antennas are too high if you only use 1 antenna on each band. When the band is "open" yopu will get whipped by the guys with antennas at 1 wavelength or so. I suggest that you consider phasing two yagis with the lower one near 1 wavelength high. You can use one or the other or both to suite the conditions. The 40 mtr ant sounds good at 110 feet. (Wish I could do it!) I used to kick the butt of W7KW at 180 ft on 20 and W7NA at 100ft on 20mtrs with my little quad at 50 feet when the band was open. They would both kick my butt when long path was in due to their very low angle of radiation. It is possible to have antenna too high for certain conditions. 73, Al From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:07 1996 From: Richard Kiefer Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What are the optimum heights for Yagi ant's for 40,20,15,&10 mtrs? Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 17:15:00 -0800 Message-ID: <312FB814.5319@athena.csdco.com> References: <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu> <4gi5ru$lhb@news.ios.com> macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: > > In <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu>, bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonne au) writes: > > Could someone please help me with the optimum heights to install HF ya gis on a tower in New England? I have read a couple of antenna handbooks and from > > > > 40 mtr 3 or 4 ele at = 115ft > > 20 mtr long boom 4 or 5 el = 100ft > > 15 mtr 6 ele = 100ft > > 10 mtr 6 ele = 110ft > > > >My goal is to get an optimum setup for DX. If anyone could tell me what th ey think of these proposed heights, I'd really appreciate any info I could get. Th > > Brad NZ1Y > > > > P.S. The program can be ftp'ed from: > 137.80.1.2 /pub/hamradio/incoming/TEEREV.ZIP > > JimYou really should model thos e antennas, or just simple dipoles at those heights with EZNEC. You will easily see what the take off angles are, as these are determined primarily by height above ground. Then you can use MiniProp to decide what take off angles you need to work what ever paths you desire. It's lots of fun Dick Kiefer, K0DK From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:08 1996 From: darrellm@drmoody.demon.co.uk (Darrell Moody) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What is good for 6m? Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 09:20:00 GMT Message-ID: <825239825.24637@drmoody.demon.co.uk> References: <96047.093724BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> wrote: >Hello, >just want to get some info. on what antennas >seem to "do the job" on 6 meters. >What is good, what is not. As usual, the bigger the better. I've worked stations at 1000 miles+ with half a watt to a dipole via Sporadic E, but I reckon a 3 ele yagi is a minimum for reasonable performance - worked 70 DXCC countries on mine until I replaced it with a 5 ele. If I had the space it would be a 6 ele Crushcraft but most of us in the UK do not have much land. Propagation isn't too hot at the moment, mainly summer Sporadic E, but last year we had 2 weeks of short UK-US openings so don't give up. -------------------------------------- Darrell G0HVQ UKSMG#353 Loc IO81VV darrellm@drmoody.demon.co.uk -------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:09 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Why free space path loss? Message-ID: <1996Feb24.120912.23318@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <312B2CA2.5D2E@csg.mot.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 12:09:12 GMT In article <312B2CA2.5D2E@csg.mot.com> Paul Moller w rites: >> By the way, the inverse-D-squared characteristic does not hold when you >> get closer than 1/2 wavelength from an antenna. There are so-called >> "near-fields" which fall off even more rapidly, at the fourth and sixth >> powers of distance. The near-field and the inverse-D-squared field are >> equal at about 1/6 wavelength from the antenna. >> > >This is correct. There is a distance refered to as the "radian sphere", >which is a distance of 1 radian around the antenna, inside which one is >in the near field and outside which one is more or less in the far >field. Be very carefull though, although this distance is related to >wavelength of course, this is only an approximation as the fields make a >smooth transition, and for quite some distance have properties of both! The rule of thumb I've seen expressed many times is that you should make your measurements at least 10 wavelengths from the antenna in order to be reasonably free of near field effects. In AM broadcast, we start our field strength measurements at 1 mile which is a bit inside that rule of thumb limit. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:11 1996 From: jmatk@tscm.com (James M. Atkinson, Communications Engineer) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew Subject: Wiretapping and Telephone Bugging Web Page tscm.com Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 15:34:56 -0500 Message-ID: Reply-To: jmatk@tscm.com Keywords: Counterintelligence Debugging Surveillance Counter-Terrorism Finally the tools and test equipment page is finished, and we have updated our frequency tables/lists. Check out our updated tool and TSCM test equipment list. http://www.tscm.com/ http://www.tscm.com/tmde.html <--- TSCM Test Equipment http://www.tscm.com/tools.html <--- TSCM Hand Tools http://www.tscm.com/stu.html <--- Secure Telephones and Scramblers Upcoming Topics to watch for in March... Any interest?? Wired Microphones and Pinhole devices... tons of pictures The Computer Audio/Video Threat... tons of pictures Join us for a real world TSCM sweep... Feel free to suggest topics... =============================================================== James M. Atkinson "...Shaken, not Stirred..." TSCM.COM 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 URL: http://www.tscm.com/ E-Mail: jmatk@tscm.com =============================================================== The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and the Most Complete TSCM Counterintelligence Site on the Internet =============================================================== From lwbyppp@epix.net Tue Feb 27 19:59:12 1996 From: carlosr@csulb.edu (Carlos Ramirez) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: WTB: MFJ-1796 Date: 26 Feb 1996 07:27:59 GMT Message-ID: <4grndv$hfu@garuda.csulb.edu> I am looking for this antenna, state price and condition. Only reasonable prices would be answered. New I think is $170. 73's Carlos From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:18 1996 From: John Spoonhower Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 10m mobile ant recommendations Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:51:58 -0500 Message-ID: <312DFEBE.2053@kodak.com> References: <4geos0$118@panther.sirinet.net> <4gea6v$o0f@usenet.pa.dec.com> Does anyone have any recommendations for 10m mobile antennas? I am interested in mobile operation with a radio of <100w and am I'm looking for either plans for a 10 m antenna or recommendations for a commercial product. Thanks & 73, John, kc2du, spoon@kodak.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:19 1996 From: Kent Winrich Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Kiwa Loop Wanted Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:57:51 -0800 Message-ID: <312E2A4F.28DF@execpc.com> I am looking for a Kiwa MW loop for my BCB Dx adventures. Anyone out there have one to part with?? Kent Winrich, NI9U Waukesha, WI From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:20 1996 From: Zack Lau Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Optimum VHF QTH Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 13:29:27 -0500 Message-ID: <312E0787.358F@arrl.org> References: <4gd87t$235@ulowell.uml.edu> <1996Feb21.174122.11069@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonneau) writes: >Hi there, >I am interested in setting up a nice VHF station up in Vermont >I am especially interested in DX on these bands, and taking > advantage of band openings. In order to do this, is a large > hill the optimum location? (Edited by ZL) For long paths, the critical factor is your horizon angle--how low in the sky can you see stars from the antenna location in the important directions? Obviously, a large hill helps by reducing the number of obstructions (taller hills) but you run into several problems as you go up higher. 1) How to you intend to get there? Will the winter access problems hurt or help operating time? 2) My experience is that the higher the hill, the worse the weather. I wouldn't count on the typical stacked array surviving even a weekend on Mt Washington. (100 mph+ winds every month) 3) Increased interference from LOS stations. You can't work DX you can't hear. Contest operating is different in the USA--you want to maximize the LOS paths, so a good contest site isn't necessarily the best DX site. OTOH, the higher elevations seem to do OK during recent tropo openings I'm familiar with---people have worked hundreds of miles on 10 GHz with under 100 mW from Mt Washington. Zack KH6CP/1 From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:22 1996 From: Edward Lawrence Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: SWR=3:1 How do I lower it? Date: 23 Feb 1996 17:12:23 GMT Message-ID: <4gkshn$5u5@fcnews.fc.hp.com> References: sco@sco-inc.com wrote: >I have a small 6m SQLOOP antenna and my meter says I have a 3:1 SWR. >What can I do to lower the SWR? If this is similar to the old SQALOW antenns, that is to say, a diploe bent in to a square configuration, I might be able to help. 1. Disconnect the feedline. 2. Use a grid Dip meter (GDO)to set the size of the Antenna to the freq. of cinterest. Use your 6 mtr receiver to listen for the 'blip' as you tune the GDO to locate the dip that indicates the resonance. 3. Remember to couple the GDO as loosely as possible for the final size adjustments. 4. Now connect the feedline with an SWR Bridge at tha antenna. Adjust the matching system for lowest SWR at the freq. of interest. This worked for me in the '60's, should work for you now. WA5SWD From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:23 1996 From: Jeff DePolo WN3A Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:26:23 -0500 Message-ID: <312E4D1F.1C9A@intermediainc.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <312D5873.708B@intermediainc.com> <4gkif3$ev0@cheatum.frontiernet.net> To: robbin decker robbin decker wrote: > > Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote: > > My thoughts are that it has always been exceedingly difficult to > properly configue the ants to accept coaxial connecting devices, > and in order to do so the proper surgical equipment is very difficult > to obtain without a certificate of authority from the State Board of > Entomology, although the policy probably varies from State to State. > It is my understanding that there is a degree of inductance variance > between different factions of Army ants, the Clintonian variety being > particularly difficult to induct. The carpenter would afford the > largest hardware interface but could be detrimental to wood burning > test equipment. A solid warning is that any such tests should be done > in strict secrecy as the possibility of disruption by factions of > PETA, Greenpeace, ASPCA, Handgun Control International, and other > organizations dedicated to prevent such unscrupulous activities > exists. Measuring the loss of RF power when using an ant tuner, not to > mention the mere act of tuning an ant to begin with, would surely > disrupt the morning tofu and granola indulgences of the membership. You're wrong, I didn't write that. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-J eff DePolo WN3A Twisted Pair: H:610-337-7383 W:215-387-3059 x300 depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu RF: 442.1 442.2 442.4 443.45 443.8 444.15 linked Claim to Fame: I got the 1st speeding ticket on the information superhighway From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:24 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:33:42 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <4gkmc1$4a2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> In article <4gkmc1$4a2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) writ es: >From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) >Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? >Date: 23 Feb 1996 10:26:57 -0500 >In article , n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes >Stewart) writes: [snip] >> Without more specificity as to the >>configuration of the tuner one cannot justify statements such as these. >> >>[snip] >Hi Wes, I disagree with you on something (finally, it took years!). ;-) Easy now...:-) >We can make a general statement that applies to traditional T net tuners >on low frequencies (as I did). The main limitation in the efficiency is a >lack of sufficent output C range (too little C) for matching low Z loads. >The lack of sufficent C causes the tuner to operate at higher Q than >necessary. The voltages and currents in the tuner components become MUCH >higher than necessary for a given to match the load, and so do losses. True but I wasn't limiting my statement to just tee networks. We weren't thinking alike this time. >This condition is aggrivated by a capacitive load. Such a load requires >more output C than a resistive load, and there allready is a shrt fall! >The operating Q and losses are forced even higher by this condition! >In the practical world of traditional low band T network tuners efficiency >is always lowest with low Z capacitive loads. >Do a spead sheet on a T network, and you'll see what I mean. (Unless a >tuner with a LCL T or huge capacitors is assumed!) Ah Ha... now you're seeing it my way . >73 Tom 73, Wes From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:25 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:42:54 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> In article <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) writes : >From: barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) >Subject: shuttle communication on 2 meter >Date: 23 Feb 96 22:28:20 -0800 >I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want >to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be >built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. >Any ideas? >Barry Himes KF6AZU As one of only about 350 hams who contacted the first shuttle op, W5LFL, I suggest that you forget trying with an HT. There will be hundreds of people calling and on FM, it's the big guy that captures the receiver. I recommend 1500W and 20 dB of antenna gain. Worked for me:-) 73, Wes -- N7WS From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:26 1996 From: myers@West.Sun.COM (Dana Myers) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 23 Feb 1996 18:44:37 GMT Message-ID: <4gl1ul$22m@abyss.West.Sun.COM> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <312D5873.708B@intermediainc.com> In article <312D5873.708B@intermediainc.com>, Jeff DePolo WN3A wrote: > >I would think a calorimetric measurement would provide more accurate >results, although the technique for doing such that doesn't >require submersion may not be all that easy to do at home. Hey, I was gonna post this, but I couldn't think of a suitable liquid to submerse the tuner in. >I would imagine that it would be more difficult to make and use >an air-based calorimeter, especially one that would yield results >as accurate as a submersion-based one. Maybe the tuner could be >placed in a thermally-conductive, liquid-tight container and >then submerged? Anyone with more knowledge on the subject care to >comment? The thermal latency resulting from "insulating" the tuner in another container would complicate taking the reading. I'd be more interested in finding a suitable dielectric liquid. ;-) -- * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ, DoD#: j | Views expressed here are * * (310) 348-6043 | mine and do not necessarily * * Dana.Myers@West.Sun.Com | reflect those of my employer * From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:27 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Frank Scutch Subject: Mounting height of R5? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 20:18:10 GMT Message-ID: <1996Feb23.201810.11807@schbbs.mot.com> Hi fellas: I just picked up an R5 to play with and initially have it mounted on a 10 ft mast in my back yard. I think it works fine considering it's size. I have noticed that it doesn't really perform any better than some of the wire arrays I'm already using in the yard. Question: Would the antenna perform any differently at maybe 30 or 40 feet than it does at 10 ft? Before I go through the trouble of putting it up higher... can someone tell me if will even matter? Seems I remember a post where someone mentioned that there is no diffence in performance. I'm not looking for a beam's performance out of a vertical but just want to know if it's worth it. Thanks. Frank, WB4AYJ From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:28 1996 From: ELBV14A@prodigy.com (William Pulvermacher) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Apartment Antenna Date: 23 Feb 1996 20:58:06 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gl9ou$rc4@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> Anyone know of a reliable antenna to be used in an apartment. Preferrably something that I dont have to sneek into the attic for. I live on the second floor and have a balcony outside. I don't want to kill the nieghbors either. It's a stock Galaxy DX88HL. Mostly used on 11m. Thanks Snoshu. . . From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:29 1996 From: pelt@vt.edu (Ranson J. Pelt) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Spacing between stacked yagis Date: 24 Feb 1996 03:30:30 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <4gd3u1$p7h@chnews.ch.intel.com> In article <4gd3u1$p7h@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wrote: > Im making plans on installing a Cushcraft A3 3-element 20/15/10 meter > yagi on the same mast with a homebrew 2-element 12/17 meter yagi. > > What minimum spacing is required between the two yagis to pervent > interaction? > > Tom... I have a 10/12/17 Yagi combination stacked over a 20/15 yagi about 5 or 6 feet- never had any problems -- Ranson Pelt pelt@vt.edu nz4i From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:30 1996 From: little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: 24 Feb 1996 04:35:38 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gm4iq$qrl@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> Reply-To: little@pecan.enet.dec.com In article <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) wrote: > I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want > to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be > built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. I'm not sure I should ask, but why an HT? A very directional antenna with respect to a long boom yagi would only be either a *very* large dish (as dishes aren't very effective at 2 meters) or an array of yagis. 8 long boom yagis and an HT might do the job, but a much cheaper alternative would be a 10-25 watt rig into a 150-300 watt amplifier and a single OSCAR class steerable antenna. The cost and hassle of making a "more focused" antenna system than a long yagi is considerable. But the flip side is that if you add an amp and an all mode rig, you'd be able to work moon bounce! :-) 73, Todd N9MWB From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:31 1996 From: jbmitch@vt.edu (John Mitchell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 24 Feb 1996 05:55:21 GMT Message-ID: <4gm989$2bl@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <1996Feb23.201810.11807@schbbs.mot.com> In article <1996Feb23.201810.11807@schbbs.mot.com>, efs003@email.mot.com says... > >>Question: Would the antenna perform any differently at maybe 30 or 40 >feet than it does at 10 ft? Before I go through the trouble of putting >it up higher... can someone tell me if will even matter? Seems I >remember a post where someone mentioned that there is no diffence in >performance. I'm not looking for a beam's performance out of a vertical >but just want to know if it's worth it. Thanks. > I always used my R5 on a chimney mount with a 10 foot mast, raising it to about 50 feet above the ground.,. Works better than near the ground, I'd say, altho never actually tested it on the ground. Good Luck, John From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:31 1996 From: Jeff Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: ANTENNA WANTED Date: 24 Feb 1996 06:42:43 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gmc13$e7l@atlas.uniserve.com> I HAVE A FRIEND WHO IS LOOKING FOR A CUSHCRAFT A3S OR SIMILAR ANTENNA . THANKS.. From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:33 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 10:54:30 GMT In article <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: >Gary's right -- I shouldn't have dismissed the directional wattmeter out of >hand. > >Using the impedances I snatched from the air: > >2000 - j600 is an SWR of 43.6 in a 50 ohm system. This probably isn't >an unreasonably high SWR to see with a multi-band antenna fed with >ladder or open wire line. With 100 watts of power, the trusty Bird should >read a forward power of 1141 watts and reverse power of 1041 watts. It >might be possible to resolve the difference well enough to get an idea of >the actual power being transmitted. Yeah, that's about a 10% difference in reading. Now a Bird is only rated for 3% of full scale accuracy, but we aren't concerned about that here. That will cancel out when we subtract the relative readings. In this case, depending on the slug chosen, we should be able to resolve down to between 3% to 6% of true power out (the real limitation being how well we can interpolate the meter scale, which we *could* expand if we wanted to take the trouble). If the tuner has less loss than that, we won't be able to resolve it, IE if tuner loss is less than 0.27 db, we won't be able to see it on the Bird. I don't think we'd care too much about that anyway. However, the *coax* tuner that started this thread wouldn't be used with that high a VSWR anyway. Line losses, and even the possibility of flashover, would limit the impedances we'd try to tune with a coax tuner to a range that produced VSWRs more on the order of 10:1 or less. For that sort of measurement, the Bird is just fine. For a balanced tuner, we'd want to use hot wire ammeters, and a RF voltmeter that we could move along the line, to determine power out. The RF voltmeter would let us directly determine VSWR and give us a direct tuner output voltage reading. Combined with the RF current readings of the hot wire ammeters (one in each leg) we could then determine power out by cranking the formulas. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:34 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: QST Auto Tuner, balun losses, and accurate antenna measurements Message-ID: <1996Feb24.112841.22818@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4f0g0n$18q8@chnews.ch.intel.com> <287cc$173a2f.3d2@luzskru.cpcnet.com> <4g26q0$14oo@chnews.ch.intel.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 11:28:41 GMT In article ji3m@scubed.com (James R. Duffey) writes: >This thread on the QST auto tuner and losses in the tuner/balun system has >gone on too long for me to ignore. I cannot resist commenting on several >points; > >1. The place for a balun with a multiple band ladder line fed antenna is >between the tuner and the transmitter, not between the tuner and the antenna. >The auto tuner described in the QST article will work fine in this fashion. >Connect the ladder line to the tuner, don't ground the tuner, and feed the >tuner from the transmitter through a 1:1 transmission line balun. This >configuration should result in low losses if the tuner is not grounded >and kept at least 6 inches or so from ground. A manual tuner will >work fine in this configuration as well. While a manual tuner might work fine in this configuration (I'd be careful making tuning adjustments under power), the QST autotuner would not be a happy camper used this way. In the first place, it has power and control cabling that would have to be carefully RF isolated. But more importantly it is a simple L network and would be asymmetrically driving the two legs of the balanced line. Common mode rejection would be severely compromised. >3. The high radiation resistances and impedances which give the most >problems in matching can be significantly reduced by the paralleling >of wires in the antenna. Thus instead of a single 14 gauge wire for >each leg, use two such wires spaced a foot or so apart. These wires >should be bonded together electrically at the feed point, at the end >points, and at points between that are less than a half wavelength >on the highest frequency to be used, or 15 feet or so apart for 10 M. >this will prevent circulating currents. > >More improvement can be obtained by using a third wire, but you begin >to get into the point of diminishing returns, that is, it is harder to >keep the antenna in the air,and teh improvement in going from 2 wires >to 3 is less than going from 1 wire to 2. The addition of the extra wire >should reduce the radiation resistance by approximately a factor 4. >This should increase the bandwidth and the efficiency of the antenna, >particualrly at low frequencies and low antenna heights. What you've described is a "fat" or caged dipole. This is an old and well established way of broadening the VSWR curve of a dipole. However, I don't understand how this gives you a reduction in radiation resistance by a factor of 4. Please explain. Also, since Q=X/R, a reduction in radiation resistance should result in higher Q and narrower bandwidth (and lower efficiency since loss resistances now tend to dominate). That's what we see in other antennas with low radiation resistance, such as HF whips on autos. Is the relationship between radiation resistance, efficiency, and Q somehow different for a fat dipole? Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:36 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Help to receive LA 90.7FM in SD Message-ID: <1996Feb24.114852.23107@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4genki$fbe@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 11:48:52 GMT In article <4genki$fbe@newsbf02.news.aol.com> jafinlay@aol.com (Jafinlay) writ es: >I used to live in LA and enjoyed listening to KPFK 90.7 FM. I moved to >San Diego and I can get KPFK in my car pretty well around town, esp. if I >head North, but I can't get it at all in my condo. I have tried several >power FM antennas I bought at radio shack but none work on my stereo in my >home. Does anyone have any ideas of what kind of anntenna I can install >in my condo in order to get this station? It is pretty strong but I think >it is getting lost in all the others. Your auto setup has two very important advantages. First the antenna is *outside*, and second the auto radio has better RF sensitivity and better selectivity than most home tuners. These two factors should give you an idea what you need to do. First you need to locate the FM antenna *outside*, as high and in the clear as possible. A directional antenna like a yagi would be best, but any outside antenna is going to work better than anything you have inside. Second, you may need to use a preamp/preselector in front of the house radio in order to gain the sensitivity and selectivity missing from home units. This is a tricky balancing act, and won't be met by something you find at Radio Shack. The preamp needs to be able to resist strong adjacent channel signals, hence the preselector part. You may have to build this to get exactly what you need. Another option, that I've used frequently in this sort of situation, is to simply go to the junkyard and get a good Delco auto radio, bring it back and use it in the house powered by a 12 volt supply. It already has the good features built in that you need. Just hook it to an outside antenna and you'll have reception at least as good as you get in the car. Now don't go to Radio Shack for the auto radio, they suck, get a good OEM radio like the Delco from the junkyard. It'll be cheaper, and work better too. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:37 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: <1996Feb24.120241.23229@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> <4gcs28$srg@news.ios.com> <4gd2b8$k3m@cloner4.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 12:02:41 GMT In article Cecil Moore writes: >Steve Ellington writes: > >>Could the bottom line here be: >> >>You are better off with an antenna that requires no tuner i.e. >>parallel dipoles, seperate antennas that require no matching etc. > >Hi Steve, IMO the bottom line is whatever your antenna configuration, >achieve a Z0-match before the balun or tuner. If no reflections are >allowed to reach the balun or tuner and the transmission line is low >loss, there is nowhere else for the power to go except to be radiated. Well, Cecil, that does appear to be a tautology. If you have a Zo match, you don't *need* the tuner. But that seems to beg the question, what *is* achieving that Zo match if it isn't a tuner? Just because you distribute its parts in a different location, is it not doing the same function as a traditional tuner? Whether you match at the antenna, at the transmitter, or at some point or points in between, aren't you doing conceptually the same thing? Which end of the feedline you match wouldn't seem to matter except in so far as the line may show greater losses with high VSWR, but that isn't a great concern with balanced open wire feeders, or in so far as the transmission line transformer action of the feedline may present you with a more convienent impedance to match at one end rather than the other (that can make a difference, but can be dealt with by adjusting feed line length). Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:39 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Message-ID: <1996Feb24.123547.23438@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 12:35:47 GMT In article <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) writes : >I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want >to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be >built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. > >Any ideas? To work the Shuttle or Mir, you need a 2 meter antenna. About the only thing with a tighter pattern than a yagi on 2 meters is going to be a *huge* parabolic dish. OTOH, Shuttle and Mir move *fast* across the sky, an antenna with too small a beamwidth is a tracking nightmare. Even a KLM-22C is approaching the limit of practicality for use with the Shuttle or Mir, computer driven tracking is almost a must. If you're going to hand track, something with about 10 elements is probably near ideal. Neither Shuttle nor Mir are weak signal targets, so huge amounts of antenna gain aren't necessary. Circular polarization is a big help, however. (CP dramatically reduces spin modulation of the signal.) If I were building an antenna specially for Shuttle and Mir, I'd use a 5 element long boom design with cross elements staggered a quarterwave up the boom for circular polarization (yielding a total of 10 elements in a 6 element length). That would be manageable with hand steering, and should offer enough gain to boost the HT signal to respectable level. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:39 1996 From: AC6V Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 24 Feb 1996 14:13:18 GMT Message-ID: <4gn6du$qus@cloner3.netcom.com> References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Sorry your R5 doesn't perform well --- mine does (qsl's not withstanding) 73 Rod -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:41 1996 From: glawson@inav.net (Gayle Lawson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna location program Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 14:50:34 GMT Message-ID: <4gn8pl$gfq@composer.inav.net> References: <4ge22m$4j5$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> <312DAC1F.5AA7@bi.swissptt.ch> Pierre-Andre Rovelli wrote: >Steve Beyers wrote: >> >> I recently read an article about a computer program that finds the >> best location for an antenna, taking into account the topography >> of the potential locations, and antenna parameters. The trouble >> is, I can't remember where I read it. Can anybody help? Thanks. >> >> Steve W9HJW >> >> -- >> Steve Beyers W9HJWDear Steve, >please contact N6BV from ARRL technical staff (ANTENNA BOOK editor) >73 de HB9FMN >Pierre-André parovelli@spectraweb.ch Steve: The software that Pierre is talking about was discussed in QEX. It called Yagi Terain Analysis with Diffraction. I used it and it gave some very interesting results. It's available from the ARRL BBS or on the internet @ ftp.cs.buffalo.edu. and is located in the PUB.HAM-RADIO /QEX directory. Have fun. Gayle W0FO Gayle Lawson W0FO From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:42 1996 From: dman@isd.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Where to buy a tower? Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 17:06:22 GMT Message-ID: <4gnd0p$97i@usamrid.innovsoftd.com> Reply-To: dman@isd.net I am looking to install a 40-60' tower in my back yard and want to know where to buy a used one inexpensively. I am also interested in building one if there are plans available. Appreciate any ideas. From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:43 1996 From: Gary Davidson Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 25 Feb 1996 01:29:41 GMT Message-ID: <4goe25$e0n@miwok.nbn.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> With all the fuss over technical aspects of power loss thru an antenna tuner (FEEDLINE TUNER!), couldn't we just sidestep all the BS by just stating that a well designed tuner, operating properly, will consume *NEGLIGIBLE* power. so little as to be difficult to measure, and IMPOSSIBLE to detect at the receiving end? SEE, that wasn't hard... -- Gary... KJ6Q... I am the NRA | Annoy a Liberal - say NO to gun control! ============================ | Annoy a Democrat - say BYE BYE CLINTON! "Did you come here to *LEARN*|================================== or to nose around, make rude | "It's *EASY* to be a liberal, it's noises & provide proof our | OTHER people's money you are giving educational system stinks?" | away! (or living off of!) From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:44 1996 From: AC6V Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 25 Feb 1996 14:41:48 GMT Message-ID: <4gpsfc$i9e@reader2.ix.netcom.com> References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4gn6du$qus@cloner3.netcom.com> To: n4lq@iglou.com Hi Steve. I have read most of your recent posts and replies and like your style and objective approach, very much enjoy your posts and replies. RE: Data and comparisons --- right on -- only way to compare em for sure. Here in San Diego, we have had several Hams who did just that -- and the R5 holds up very well. I have CC&R's so can't put anything above the roof line so haven't personnally made comparisons. I don't collect data, however, just QSL's from the aforementioned and tis good enough for me. Maybe its like analyzing the specs on a Corvette and then driving one!! 73 Keep up the excellent posts Rod -- ***************************************************************** Hark! I Have Hurled My Words To The Far Reaches Of The Earth! What King Of Old Could Do Thus ? --- AC6V ***************************************************************** A Man May Know Of The World Without Leaving The Shelter Of His Own Home! Loa-Tsze ***************************************************************** From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:45 1996 From: mulveyr@ll.aa2ys.ampr.org (Rich Mulvey) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 25 Feb 1996 15:40:39 GMT Message-ID: References: <4gm640$2vr@cloner3.netcom.com> <4gmfu2$nn5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4gn6du$qus@cloner3.netcom.com> Reply-To: mulveyr@vivanet.com On Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:23:30 GMT, Steve Ellington wrote: >Dont' take this wrong but I want to make a very clear statement here. > >Measuring antenna performance by the number of dx stations worked and their >location means absolutely NOTHING. > >Remember the old Gotham Vertical advertisements from the 60's? > >"I worked the world with my Gotham Vertical"!!! > >THIS MEANS NOTHING. Period....... > >Only direct comparison test, A-B switching done several times or field >strength measurements give any meaningful data. > Well, I have to disagree. :-) While field-strength measurements are useful indicators, the end result that most amateurs are looking for is "can I make contacts?" If the antenna they use permits them to do so, then I could consider the antenna to be effective, even if it just happens to be the gutters on the house. :-) - Rich --- Rich Mulvey, aa2ys Rochester, NY USA mulveyr@vivanet.com aa2ys@net.wb2psi.ampr.org aa2ys@wb2psi.#wny.ny.us From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:46 1996 From: dave.des@metronet.com (David de Schweinitz) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Why free space path loss? Date: 25 Feb 1996 16:23:04 GMT Message-ID: <4gq2d8$gml@feenix.metronet.com> References: <4g8n5l$dvg@utopia.hacktic.nl> : >Please excuse me fellow radio hams, but can I ask a very stupid : >question ? : >Why is the free space path loss different for different frequencies : >Thus every time you double the frequency the pathloss increase by : >6dB. I know what the mathematical formulae say but can somebody : >just give a plain gutfeel common sense answer for this dummy ? If you express the TX and RX antenna gain in effective aperture, the path loss is independant of frequency. For a link consisting of two horns or dishes or arrays with effective apertures of many square wavelengths (roughly proportional to their physical apertures), the link transmission loss is flat with frequency. Links involving antennas like dipoles vary with frequency because the effective aperture of these antenna types varies with frequency. "Antennas" by Kraus has a very good discussion of effective aperture in Ch. 1 or 2. Dave From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:47 1996 From: jchol@aol.com (JCHol) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Carolina Windom Date: 25 Feb 1996 18:24:41 -0500 Message-ID: <4gqr3p$72q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4fn6p6$a0j@news.voicenet.com> Reply-To: jchol@aol.com (JCHol) I have the 80 meter version installed as a flat top in the clear at 40 ft. It works very well on 80 and well on the other bands. I would say it is better than the G5RV's I have had but have not tried one in the same location, so can't be certain. It is a very good "one solution" antenna. It was equal to my 80 meter loop skywire and takes up less space. 73 de John, WA5TWL From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:48 1996 From: ac6v@ix.netcom.com (AC6V) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Test (No need to Read) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 20:11:18 GMT Message-ID: <4gqfot$oi3@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> V21AS - Buro: Not Active - Source: unknown - Since: Wed Aug 8 17:18:06 1990 JOSPEH HADEED BOX 750, ANTIGUA These can be found at the following WWW page http://promet12.cineca.it/htlzh/search.html From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:49 1996 From: Jeff Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Design Software Date: 25 Feb 1996 20:28:35 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gqgpj$iek@atlas.uniserve.com> Can anyone tell me if there are evaluation or demo versions of antenna design software available on the internet ? I want to build a antenna and would like a program to consult with . THANKS Jeff VE7 GMX From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:50 1996 From: donstone@gate.net (Don Stoner) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Rotator Date: 25 Feb 1996 21:15:05 GMT Message-ID: <4gqjgp$1chk@news.gate.net> References: <4go8mc$466@news.gate.net> <4gor6j$khn@peanut.senie.com> In article <4gor6j$khn@peanut.senie.com>, dts@peanut.senie.com says... > >In article <4go8mc$466@news.gate.net>, Don Stoner wrote: >>I hope to put up a 7-30 MHz log periodic antenna. I'd like recommendations o n a >>suitable rotator. Cost not important but am interested in strength of castin g >>because of high windloading. Appreciate ur comments and suggestions. 73 W6TN S >> > >Don, is THIS the antenna you're fighting the condo association over? :-) > > >-- >--------------------------------------------------------------- >Daniel Senie Internet: dan@senie.com, >Daniel Senie Consulting n1jeb@senie.com >http://www.senie.com Packet Radio: N1JEB@KA1SRD.MA I WISH! No, my fight is over a simple longwire antenna. I'm on the air with it and association has not been able to force me to take it down. But you know th e problems associated with using a longwire on, say, 20 meters and trying to wor k DX. I am investigating the possiblity of a remote station using an AEA HAMLINK . Appreciate ur interest! 73 Don, W6TNS From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:51 1996 From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 25 Feb 1996 22:06:58 GMT Message-ID: <4gqmi2$lr7@news.asu.edu> The pattern of a vertical half wave antenna depends on its height abobve ground. See ARRL Antenna Book chapter 3 Fig 15 on page 3-10 of the 16th edition. As the height is increased higher angle lobes appear. These may imporove short skip signals and make the added height desirable but the power has to come out of the lower angle lobe. The nulls in the pattern of an elevated antenna might also make sinals near these wave angles very fade suseptable. Charlie, W7XC -- From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:51 1996 From: dandr@pgh.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: monoband/triband separation ??? Date: 25 Feb 1996 23:17:47 GMT Message-ID: <4gqqmr$1pu@dropit.pgh.net> References: <199602132241.PAA22518@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU> Hello.... I tried the same thing a few years ago....I had the mono-bander on top at firs t... it worked and worked well.....after a bit of wind I lost a mast, when I put things back up the tri-bander was on top... I noticed a difference in receive...It seemed the mono-bander was shadowing th e tri-bander.... Plus it was a lot easier to put up that way. Good Luck Chet KA3NUM From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:53 1996 From: jmb@eden.com (John Bradley/KK5MH) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Slide Rule Wanted Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 03:40:58 GMT Message-ID: <4gra3c$oh2@boris.eden.com> References: <1996Feb13.185614.22597@rgfn.epcc.edu> <4ften0$jb1@nyx.cs.du.edu> tkell@nyx.cs.du.edu (ted kell) wrote: >Well, I have a K&E LOg-Log Decitrig that I got in highschool in the late >50's, and no you can't have it. :) >I would like to get one of those demonstator jobs, the ones that hung over >the blackboard and were about 10 feet long. >I still drag my rule out now and then, much to the kids amazement. They >cannot even begin to understand how I get answers out of it. >Ted Well, I have one of those demonstrator jobs, the ones that hung over the blackboard and ... :) No, you can't have it! It's actually about 8 feet long and is labeled on the back with "Property of the Real Math Department". Probably sold by UT-Austin in a suplus auction. My wife found it at an antique store and bought it for my birthday last year. My K&E is safely tucked away as well. 73, John From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:53 1996 From: Jesse Touhey Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Test (do not read) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:47:18 -0800 Message-ID: <31320E46.3FE5@frazmtn.com> Test From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:54 1996 From: terrybu@netman.ens.tek.com (Terry Burge) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What are the optimum heights for Yagi ant's for 40,20,15,&10 mtrs? Date: 26 Feb 1996 16:32:02 -0800 Message-ID: <4gtje2$2ig@netman.ens.tek.com> References: <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu> <4gi54i$lhb@news.ios.com> In article <4gi54i$lhb@news.ios.com> macino@mail.fwi.com writes: >In <4gd7th$3ac@ulowell.uml.edu>, bcharbon@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Brad Charbonnea u) writes: >> 40 mtr 3 or 4 ele at = 115ft Good average height for a 40 meter beam. 40 meters is a strange band and I suspect different heights have different advantages to different areas of the world. >> 20 mtr long boom 4 or 5 el = 100ft Excellent height for 20 meters. Should work very well. Much higher probably won't buy you a whole lot. >> 15 mtr 6 ele = 100ft Will work but why so high? A wavelength is about 45 feet and if you get much over that without stacking and phasing multiple beams I don't see that it buys you a whole lot. 60 feet would do very well. >> 10 mtr 6 ele = 110ft Not a good idea funny as it may sound. I found this out running from W7NI's place during CQWWPHN a few years back. Having a 10 meter beam at 45-55 feet is about optimum for 'most' contacts. We also had one at 110 feet about and I just didn't use it cause everyone was stronger on the beam at 45 feet, even into Africa. All a matter of takeoff angel. >> >>My goal is to get an optimum setup for DX. If anyone could tell me what the y think of these proposed heights, I'd really appreciate any info I could get. Thanks in advance! >> Brad NZ1Y Check out the plots for horizontal dipoles at different heights in the ARRL Antenna Handbook. You will find that with a takeoff angel of around 8-15 degrees is best for working DX. This means an antenna of about 7/8 to 1 or 1.25 wavelengths (best I recall from memory). I remember thinking that 7/8 wavelength was very good. When you stack and phase beams you can improve it some but is it worth it for all the trouble? Terry KI7M From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:56 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: 9:1 Baluns Message-ID: References: <4gspst$riu@news.hal-pc.org> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:29:18 GMT Try Amidon Associates. I don't have their number handy but they advertise in QST every month. -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:57 1996 From: tmaldred@mail.comox.island.net (Thomas M. Alldread) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Need Info: Trylon Tower.....? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 20:36:38 GMT Message-ID: <3131e20f.4201707@news.comox.island.net> References: <4givpl$i1g@newsbf02.news.aol.com> On 22 Feb 1996 18:55:33 -0500, rickcrider@aol.com (RICKCRIDER) wrote: >Seeking information on a tower that has been donated to us, to be >dissassembled and removed. Made by Trylon Mfg. Co., possibly from >Ontario/Canada...... > >It is freestanding, triangular, 44" leg to leg at base. Nine eight foot >sections. Top section is missing. Base buried in slab. Will have to >cut at base. > >Trylon still in business? Any U.S. distributors? Top section still >available? Currently mounted in a 5 1/2 foot square concrete base.....any >idea how deep the slab would need to be? > >Any contact information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. > >Rick Crider >KD4FXA >UCARS (Union County Amateur Radio Society) > >(704) 289-6303 Greetings Rick: I have been using a Trylon tower for the last 8 years. A friend of mine just bought one last year so I presume Trylon is still in business. I have a brochure titled "TRYLON ABC TOWERS" which describes their tower wind load capacity and base requirements. Their address on the brochure I have (which is at least 8 years old) was given as follows: TRYLON MANUFACTURING CO. LTD. P.O. BOX 186 ELMIRA, ONTARIO, CANADA N3B-2Z6 TEL (519) 669-5421 I suggest you contact them to obtain a copy of their current brochure information. The brochure I have is quite informative as it provides their tower wind load capacities for various heights for wind loads of 70, 85 and 100 MPH. Good luck and 73 de VE7TMA E-mail: tmaldread@mail.comox.island.net packet: VE7TMA@VE7KGW.#NVI.BC.CAN.NA From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:58 1996 From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,alt.radio.scanner,rec.radio.scanner Subject: Re: Help on finding/creating custom? mobile antenna. Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:19:29 GMT Message-ID: <4gtb4g$lgi@news1.inlink.com> References: <4ga39g$a4m@crusher.ici.net> mnewton@ici.net (Mike) wrote: >I'm looking to add a multi-band scanner antenna (30Mhz - 900Mhz) to my car >(station wagon with LOTS of ground-plane area!!). >The thing I would like to accomplish is to keep it under 24" in length so I >don't destroy my new garage doors every time I pull the car in. I know this >may be a dumb reason to some of you, but the less painting I have to do, the >better :-) >I'm willing to try and experiment with making one or if you know of one that >already exists, great. >Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks. (e-mail is appreciated too). >Mike Hi Mike I used to have an old UPS truck with the fiberglass top and built an antenna that tuned from about 20 MHz all the way up to about 1500 MHz, just guessing at the numbers, more likely a little less, let's say 30 MHz up to 1200 MHz to be on the safe side. The antenna was very very simple and included it's own ground plane, out of necessity to the fiberglass top of the truck, but assume it would work on a metal vehicle as well since the ground plane was to shield. The antenna consists primarily of two metal disks, the bottom disk is 32 inches in diameter and the top disk is 22-3/4 inches in diameter. The space between the bottom disk and top disk is exactly 5/8 inch. The coax is connected to the very center of each disk, center conductor to the top disk and shield to the bottom disk. I used 1/4 inch welded wire fabric for construction, however, solid aluminum or even wire to a loop frame would work as well. The two plates do not connect electrically, they are separated by insulators, either one in the center on rigid material or around the perimiter on flimsy material. I used nylon bolts with pieces of 3/8 diameter PVC tube for the insulators between the plates. This antenna cannot be used for transmission purposes as constructed, however a similar version using a 32 inch diameter by 32 inch high cone measured on the hypontenous as the bottom plate (now cone) will work fine on both 2 meters and 440 with an SWR under 1.8 - 1 Again, the cone can be constructed of welded wire fabric, solid aluminum or even wire to a formed ring. TTUL Gary From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:00:59 1996 From: bio2.com (David P. van De Kerk, KE6GXD) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Why long wire TVI Date: 27 Feb 1996 01:01:15 GMT Message-ID: <4gtl4r$12n@globe.indirect.com> Reply-To: davev@bio2.com Simple question: why do long wire antennas cause more TVI than most other types of antennas? All responses appreciated. Correct answers appreciated even more. davev@bio2.com. From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:01 1996 From: sid@hal-pc.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Information For C.B. Radio Date: 27 Feb 1996 01:30:30 GMT Message-ID: <4gtmrm$t7@news.hal-pc.org> References: <4gsr1m$riu@news.hal-pc.org> > sid@hal-pc.org writes: > The simplest antenna might be a half-wave dipole. > I'm not sure what frequency the CB band is, but > the formula is : > the length of wire in feet = 468/(the frequency in Mhz) > For the CB band that might be: > 18 feet = 468/26.0 Mhz. > > Take this 18 feet of wire and cut it in half. Attach (solder is best) > one end to the center feed point and attach the other > 9 foot wire to the ground feed. Then connect the antenna > feed line to you CB radio. Place the 18 foot antenna as high > up as you can get it. The higher the better, but at least, 9 feet > up. > > If this confussing, go to the library and check out an > antenna book, "The ARRL Antenna Book" is best, and look > up DIPLOES. > > Good luck and don"t be put off by some of the idiot answers. > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Sid George, CPA sid@hal-pc.org > ._ _... ..... _.._ .._ > http://www.hal-pc.org/~sid > ------------------------------------- > > >>>> That should be - look up DIPOLES. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sid George, CPA sid@hal-pc.org ._ _... ..... _.._ .._ http://www.hal-pc.org/~sid ------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:02 1996 From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 27 Feb 1996 11:37:46 GMT Message-ID: <4guqea$4kfe@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gstq5$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> <31328D67.27B2@athena.csdco.com> In article <31328D67.27B2@athena.csdco.com>, Richard Kiefer wrote: >1. Tune a tuner to its operating point to match a tranmitter to an >antenna. >2. Then, disconnect the tuner and measure its complex input impedance >with its output open. Richard, It is easy to show that your method does not work: Imagine someone had incorporated (without your knowledge) a resistor in your tuner just before the output connector in series with the coax inner, you would not detect its losses, because it carries no current when the output is open circuit. The way around is to measure all four scattering parameters, if you want a result more accurate than what can be got from a reflectometer. 73, Moritz DL5UH From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:03 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: ecosens@iquest.net (Eric Cosens) Subject: Good Mobile Antenna Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:51:51 GMT I'm finally ready to get a 2m mobile rig in my car, but what's the antenna to get. I'd like to get a high quality one; "professional" quality if you will. How does the voice of experience speak on: Larson Cushcraft Comet etc? Is any mfg. regarded as producing a superior product? I'd sure appreciate some advice. It'd help me avoid an expensive mistake. Regards, Eric '73 From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:04 1996 From: gherbst@msn.com Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: [Q] Frequency of Jupitor emissions Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 13:51:35 PDT Message-ID: Hi All: Anyone know what frequence emissions from Jupitor may be picked up on. Also, is there equipment that can be bought or built cheaply to do such. As I recall I thought I saw mentioned in a trade rag 18Mhz - 22Mhz... Thanks, Gary- From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:05 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: dstock@hpqmdla.sqf.hp.com (David Stockton) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:22:20 GMT References: <4gstq5$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> Roy Lewallen (w7el@teleport.com) wrote: : In article <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, : gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) wrote: : >For a balanced tuner, we'd want to use hot wire ammeters, and a RF : >voltmeter that we could move along the line, to determine power out. : It's not obvious to me how this would work. Wouldn't we have to know the : phase angle between the voltage and current to determine the power? : Roy Lewallen, W7EL Hmm, well, if he could slide the ammeters AND the voltmeter along the line and find the positions of the respective maxima, and know the length to the load end as well, he can get the velocity factor from the distance between current and voltage maxima, then get the reflection phase shift from the distance between a maximimum and the end. It could be done, but I can't imagine anyone would want to do it this way. I think I'd build myself a vector voltmeter before I got desperate enough to use lecher lines on a regular basis Cheers David From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:07 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 27 Feb 1996 17:22:38 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gveku$k9l@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4goe25$e0n@miwok.nbn.com> Gary Davidson wrote: >With all the fuss over technical aspects of power loss thru an antenna >tuner (FEEDLINE TUNER!), couldn't we just sidestep all the BS by just >stating that a well designed tuner, operating properly, will consume >*NEGLIGIBLE* power. so little as to be difficult to measure, and >IMPOSSIBLE to detect at the receiving end? Hi Gary, if well designed *balanced* tuners were readily available, this thread would probably be moot. How many hams do you think use the following configuration? Xmtr---unbalanced----balun----ladder-line----non-resonant length tuner balanced antenna This is the configuration some of us are worried about. IMO the tuner function should be moved to the ladder-line side of the balun implying balanced tuning techniques including balanced tuners, stubs, and/or parallel or series reactances. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:08 1996 From: mauricea@glo.be (Maurice Andries) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:31:45 GMT Message-ID: <4gvjcr$46f@rhea.glo.be> References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) wrote: >>I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want >>to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be >>built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. >>Barry Himes KF6AZU >As one of only about 350 hams who contacted the first shuttle op, W5LFL, I >suggest that you forget trying with an HT. There will be hundreds of people >calling and on FM, it's the big guy that captures the receiver. I recommend >1500W and 20 dB of antenna gain. Worked for me:-) >73, Wes -- N7WS Right, go for the power..... this is ridicoulous. It's because of 'big guns' that no one else gets a chance. I worked almost all shuttles in packet for the last 2,5 years and some in fone with 8 (yes eight) watts on a dualband colinear COMET antenna with 6dB gain. The only thing you achieve with high power is 'hogging' the frequency. Don't forget that the shuttle itself only uses a 2 watt transmitter and omnidirectonal antenna.. they are ALWAYS well over S9 here. bye, Maurice (mauricea@glo.be) PGP key on request From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:09 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Tom Skelton Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Message-ID: Reply-To: Tom.Skelton@ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM (skeltt) References: <4grmpn$a0n@tilde.csc.ti.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:49:22 GMT >==========Joe Fitter BV/N0IAT, 2/25/96========== > >n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) wrote: >>Dont' take this wrong but I want to make a very clear statement here. >> >>Measuring antenna performance by the number of dx stations >worked and >their location means absolutely NOTHING. >>Only direct comparison test, A-B switching done several times or field >>strength measurements give any meaningful data. >> >>Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky > > >I disagree in-part. While field-strenght indications may be useful >to determine the amount of RF leaving the antenna, it alone tells little >about the angle of maximum radiation. Angle of radiation is >important when "working DX". I'd rather have an antenna of 50% >efficiency optimized for maximum raddiation angle of 16 to 18 degrees >with a 5 degree beamwidth, than an antenna of 95% efficiency with a >radiation angle of 45 degrees and same beamwidth. The high angle is >ineffective. > >Now the problem....how does one measure field strength at a specific >angle of radiation? Anyone have some ideas? > >Thanks, Joe >---------------------------------------------------------- >Amateur Radio: BV/N0IAT Taipei TAIWAN Republic of China > >ex. 7J1AOF (Japan) YU3/N0IAT (Slovenia) KA0ZDH (Novice) >Licensed Radio Amateur since 1986. Comments are mine only. >---------------------------------------------------------- > > JOE! Please say hello to my former host Tony BV2TA. I visited Tony in November of 1994 for an evening, and had the pleasure of operating his station to work some W/K, UA and JA's on 40 meter CW. If he has email, please let me know his address. 73, Tom WB4iUX Tom.Skelton@ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:11 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:54:46 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> <4gvjcr$46f@rhea.glo.be> In article <4gvjcr$46f@rhea.glo.be> mauricea@glo.be (Maurice Andries) writes: >From: mauricea@glo.be (Maurice Andries) >Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:31:45 GMT >n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) wrote: >>>I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want >>>to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be >>>built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. >>>Barry Himes KF6AZU >>As one of only about 350 hams who contacted the first shuttle op, W5LFL, I >>suggest that you forget trying with an HT. There will be hundreds of people >>calling and on FM, it's the big guy that captures the receiver. I recommend >>1500W and 20 dB of antenna gain. Worked for me:-) >>73, Wes -- N7WS >Right, go for the power..... this is ridicoulous. It's because of 'big >guns' that no one else gets a chance. I worked almost all shuttles in >packet for the last 2,5 years and some in fone with 8 (yes eight) >watts on a dualband colinear COMET antenna with 6dB gain. The only >thing you achieve with high power is 'hogging' the frequency. >Don't forget that the shuttle itself only uses a 2 watt transmitter >and omnidirectonal antenna.. they are ALWAYS well over S9 here. Somebody's got to hog it ;-) I hogged it for about 10 seconds, just long enough for Owen to say "N7WS, 5x9 one of the loudest signals heard in the spacecraft." heh heh heh. I have this on tape from my end and his because I bought from the ARRL the complete set of tapes of what he heard. There were approximately four hours worth and I believe over 10000 SWL cards were sent out. So, 3.5% of those calling made QSOs and I "Hogged the frequency" for .07% of the time available. Shame on me, I'm going off to stand in the corner. Bye, N7WS From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:12 1996 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: NVIS Antenna Question Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 18:48:23 GMT Message-ID: <4gvjk3$ndr@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4gi24o$dvf@ns.oar.net> <5TPISlo.eartigas@delphi.com> In article <5TPISlo.eartigas@delphi.com>, eartigas@delphi.com wrote: >AHa!, you pick an interesting subject. >am for short range communications and the only professional refence I can >recall was in a British book call HF Communications Systems which of course I >do not have now. >I am working in Guatemala for an International Organization and this is a >subject that is extremely importaqnt for me. >So far any cloud warmer antenna should be suitable, lika a dipole close to >ground or a short vertical. >Any other info will be welcome. There have been a number of articles in _Army Communicator_, a magazine of the Army Signal Corps. "NVIS Propagation at Low Solar Flux Indices" in the Spring 1994 issue (Vol 19 No 1) contains several references. Public distribution is permitted; you might try finding it in a library or calling them at 706-791-7204. There was a good article in _QST_ just about a year ago about NVIS by Ed Farmer, AA6ZM. Low dipoles work well for NVIS, but I don't think a short vertical would. 73, Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:13 1996 From: paidukas@mlb.semi.harris.com (Paul Aidukas) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: G5RV on 160 meters Date: 27 Feb 1996 20:07:28 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4gvoa0$3pp@hearye.mlb.semi.harris.com> References: <4g8ers$1to@news.voicenet.com> Reply-To: paidukas@mlb.semi.harris.com Keywords: G5RV In article 1to@news.voicenet.com, Al Konschak () writes: >Does anyone have the dimensions for a G5RV to be used on 160. >I've tried the method of shorting out the input and driving >it as a "T" but have had limited success. There must be a longer >design that will work on 160. >Thanks >WI3Z >Al Hi Al, sure you can use a G5RV on 160M but not sure if you have the room. A double-sized G5RV works great on 160 and tunes up easily. Just double all th e dimensions... 204 feet dipole with 65 feet stub of 450 ohm ladder line. I boug ht one of these on sale and am very happy with it. works great on 80 meters too. --... ...-- -.. . Paul KT4DI Weekdays: 407-724-7879 Email: PAidukas@Harris.com Packet: KT4DI @ KT4DI.#MLBFL.FL.USA.NA From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:14 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Tom Skelton Subject: Re: Why long wire TVI Message-ID: Reply-To: Tom.Skelton@ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM (skeltt) References: <4gtl4r$12n@globe.indirect.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 22:15:57 GMT >==========David P. van De Kerk, KE6GXD, 2/26/96========== > >Simple question: why do long wire antennas cause more TVI than most >other types of antennas? > >All responses appreciated. Correct answers appreciated even >more. > >davev@bio2.com. IMHO, they don't cause more TVI than most other types of antennas. However, the ones I have used and seen used had no solid ground. And, the tuner is usually in the shack. Thus, you have a higher ambient RF level in the shack which couples onto house AC and telephone wiring. Compare this to the ambient RF level with a resonant antenna 60 feet away fed by high quality coax. Or, a properly designed dipole with open wire feeders and a tuner. I haven't tried it, but I would bet you could use a random/long wire antenna, good short ground strap, complete in-shack grounding, and some resonant 1/4 radials from the tuner, and basically not have a problem. I will remember for many years the RF burns on my lip from a Yaesu FTdx560 transceiver into an "ultimate" tuner and a 100 ft piece of wire (with no ground, poor interstation grounding, etc). OUCH! It still hurts.... 73, Tom WB4iUX Tom.Skelton@ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:15 1996 From: gary Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 27 Feb 1996 23:59:56 GMT Message-ID: <4h05ts$k1o@miwok.nbn.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <4gi5n2$lhb@news.ios.com> > I think I'd reexamine my antenna choice. > Jim WD9AHF Obviously, but that wasn't the *QUESTION*, was it! -- Gary....KJ6Q *** I AM THE NRA! *** From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:16 1996 From: gary Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 28 Feb 1996 00:06:07 GMT Message-ID: <4h069f$k1o@miwok.nbn.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> <4gcs28$srg@news.ios.com> <4gd2b8$k3m@cloner4.netcom.com> >You are better off with an antenna that requires no tuner i.e. >parallel dipoles, seperate antennas that require no matching etc. > >Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky SIGHHH - AGAIN, *OBVIOUSLY*, but that was NOT the question, and may not be practical for ALL situations. Some folks using tuners are operating from restricted locations such as apartments. Telling these folks they should be using a resonant dipole or beam 80 ft. in the air may be TRUE, but for them, totally impossible! Stick to the subject! -- Gary....KJ6Q *** I AM THE NRA! *** From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:18 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: n4lq@iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> <4gcs28$srg@news.ios.com> <4gd2b8$k3m@cloner4.netcom.com> <4h069f$k1o@miwok.nbn.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 00:47:59 GMT : be practical for ALL situations. Some folks using tuners are operating : from restricted locations such as apartments. Telling these folks they : should be using a resonant dipole or beam 80 ft. in the air may be TRUE, : but for them, totally impossible! May be but there are thousands of hams out there that have been led to believe that using a tuner and open wire feeders is more efficient. Over the years there have been many QST articles, especially back in the 70's, written by Lew Mccoy and others which claimed great and mighty things for tuners. Never was there any mention of loss in the tuner! I personally know several hams who swear that because they use open line and a tuner their signals are superior and they scoff at anyone using coax. One fellow I know has plenty of space for resonant dipole. Instead, he snakes the ladder line up the side of his house, across a gutter then up the tower to his CF zepp. Using a $2000+, new solid state rig, he carefully adjust his tuner for a dip in the swr, meantime causing qrm while tweeking the thing up. He brags; NO COAX HERE OM! -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:19 1996 From: stan Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Home brew antenna towers Date: 28 Feb 1996 00:52:05 GMT Message-ID: <4h08vl$uk2@nuacht.iol.ie> References: To: merhar@ct.picker.com Hi Rich, do'nt know if this idea will be of any use to you however I am constructing this mast which I designed myself after looking at many diffrent commercial types which did not suite. A 25ft square pole 2" dia, is pernemently bolted to the wall using standoff brackets at top and bottom, A 2nd section of 4"x 3ft square pole with a base plate for a rotator weilded at the bottom and a support bearing at the top is fitted over the 2" mast before it is bolted into place. This section supports the antenna, rotator and another 10ft pole which are fitted into the rotator and are raised and lowered to the ground by means of a winch.The use of a square pole is what makes the desihn simple to build no guieds are necessary to prevent thr lift section from twisting. The system works similar to the Hazier for lattice towers. hope this makes sense to you, 73's de Stan EI7DGB From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:20 1996 From: waynekrob@aol.com (Waynekrob) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Slide Rule Wanted Date: 28 Feb 1996 01:08:02 -0500 Message-ID: <4h0rg2$gs4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ften0$jb1@nyx.cs.du.edu> Reply-To: waynekrob@aol.com (Waynekrob) I am a new ham in possession of two slide rules: a K&E Decilon and a Pickett log log slide rule, but no radio gear! Will consider swaps for anything a T+ could use. From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:21 1996 From: dinod@deltanet.com (OrangeCounty) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 3 Repeaters, 1 Antenna?? Date: 28 Feb 1996 02:55:45 GMT Message-ID: <4h0g7i$798@news2.deltanet.com> References: In article , ken@cs.sonoma.edu says... > >Anyone know of someone who has tried this one? > >Our club, in an effort to consolidate antennas up on the hill, is >purchasing a Comet Tri-band antenna (144/220/440) and a Comet triplexor >and will be running the 2 meter repeater, 220 repeater, and the 440 >repeater on it. Each of the repeaters already has it's own duplexors so >we will be tying those in to the triplexor and then to the antenna. > >Sound feasible? Any hints or kinks that we might want to aware of or >look out for? > >If this works, our next move will be for another of the same set-ups for >a 2 meter digipeater, a 220 digipeater, and the 440 control link. > >Ken > >__________________________________________________________________________ >Ken Harrison --- ken@cs.sonoma.edu --- Amateur Radio: N6MHG >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hello Ken. First off....STAY AWAY FROM THE COMET ANTENNA! Spend the extra money and have Austin Antennas make you an antenna cut for your frequencies! As far as the triplexors go, you will just need to get then tuned up. I suggest talking to Chip Angle of Angle Linear (Southern CA). Be prepared if you do, he is BRUTTALLY honest. You will not regret it! Dino Darling KC6RiX dinod@deltanet.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:22 1996 From: linville@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Butternut HF Multiband Vertical Date: 28 Feb 1996 05:23:33 GMT Message-ID: <4h0osl$ihq@news.sas.ab.ca> References: <4gvhk7$i70@news2.realtime.net> I have the older HF6V and I am completely happy with it. it works well, although 80 m is narrow. The vertical is mechanically strong, having withstood two tornados in the area, and about 9 years worth of Canadian winters. From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:23 1996 From: "David W. Knisely" Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: [Q] Frequency of Jupitor emissions Date: 28 Feb 1996 05:49:22 GMT Message-ID: <4h0qd2$p2u@iac2.ltec.net> References: To: gherbst@msn.com Hi there. The Decameter radio bursts do not stay on a particular frequency. They are quite broad banded and move in frequency as time goes on. 22 Mhz is a goo d place to look, but it also has some broadcast stations on when the ionosphere is refractive to those freqencies. It is best heard on a broad band AM shortwave receiver with a directional antenna (like a Yagi or a loop) pointed at Jupiter . The emissions are very irregular, and seem to be most often observed when the moon IO is in certain positions around the planet. David Knisely, Prairie Astronomy Club, Inc. From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:24 1996 From: rmccoy@alb.asctmd.com (Russ McCoy) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: TRISATO Crankup Tower Info?? Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:51:50 Message-ID: I recently acquired a crankup tower from TRISATO. It is 80 feet fully extended and 20 feet cranked down. I understand that TRISATO was in the Visalia, CA area, but is no longer in business. I would like to obtain any information about this tower including a copy of the original manual if possible: wind loading, recommended guying, capacity, base configurations, parts availability, anything. Thanks for any help. Russ - AA5FP rmccoy@alb.asctmd.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:25 1996 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 09:19:39 GMT Message-ID: <4h16ln$q3v@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> <4gcs28$srg@news.ios.com> <4gsn5j$k9b@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> In article <4gsn5j$k9b@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com>, REMAPC05@ wrote: >. . . >Why not just use the intended antenna as the load and measure the RF voltage >and current at the input and output of the tuner - period? Maybe I am >overlooking something and the issue is not as simple as this? It is that simple, provided you have the means to measure not only the magnitudes of the voltage and current but also the phase angle between them. Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:26 1996 From: Kent Winrich Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Kiwa Loop Wanted Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:38:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3134AF2C.28A3@execpc.com> Still looking for a Kiwa MW loop. Anyone out there have one to part with? Kent, NI9U From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:27 1996 From: Francis Lyn Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 900 Mhz Beam needed Date: 28 Feb 1996 12:49:25 GMT Message-ID: <4h1j0l$hm1@shpk1.candu.aecl.ca> References: <4gvr1b$5ur@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com> To: brayl@boi.hp.com I saw several (at least 10+ boxes) commercial Yagi antennae at the local surplus store that covers about 840 to lower part of 900 MHz band for sale at Can$14.95 the other weekend. I think they were made by Antenna Specialists, and they were of commercial quality, solid elements, welded construction, and gold anodized. Call: From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:28 1996 From: Francis Lyn Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 900 Mhz Beam needed Date: 28 Feb 1996 12:54:23 GMT Message-ID: <4h1j9v$hm1@shpk1.candu.aecl.ca> References: <4gvr1b$5ur@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com> I saw several (at least 10+ boxes) commercial Yagi antennae at the local surplus store that covers about 840 to lower part of 900 MHz band for sale at Can$14.95 the other weekend. I think they were made by Antenna Specialists, and they were of commercial quality, solid elements, welded construction, and gold anodized. Call Active Surplus Annex in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I don't have the phone # handy, but they're on Queen Street and the area code is 416. Send me email if you need more info and I'll get Active's telephone number for you. I don't think the items are big sellers, so you should have enough time. 73 Francis Lyn - VE3TDL From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:29 1996 From: denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What's your favorite 6mt FM mobile antenna? Date: 28 Feb 1996 14:47:43 -0500 Message-ID: <4h2bgv$8j@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4gu1e8$fqq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: denoid95x@aol.com (DeNoid95X) just take a 10-11 m antenna and cut it for the freq you want. I did it and works great. I cut mine for 51 MHz and boom. I drilled mine thru the roof of my car and used a standard mount dor it, the threaded base and i beleive it was 5/16X28, the mount can be bought at any ham shop or rat shack. any questions just email me! N9RLR/2 denoid95x@aol.com syracuse, NY From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:30 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: <1996Feb28.173004.12349@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4gstq5$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:30:04 GMT In article dstock@hpqmdla.sqf.hp.com (David St ockton) writes: > > I think I'd build myself a vector voltmeter before I got desperate >enough to use lecher lines on a regular basis The problem with that, David, is that the vector voltmeter would need resolution even better than that required to use the Bird we were originally discussing, IE too many significant figures, at the extreme load impedances Roy was suggesting. That would cost big bucks, if it were practical to do at all. It seems better to me to take advantage of the characteristics of the existing feedline to yield the information needed without resorting to elaborate or expensive measuring equipment. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:31 1996 From: chideste@xvnews.unconfigured.domain (Dale Chidester) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Good Mobile Antenna Date: 28 Feb 1996 18:07:01 GMT Message-ID: <4h25k5$n3f@igate2.pt.cyanamid.com> References: Reply-To: chideste@xvnews.unconfigured.domain Get a good 5/8 wavelength antenna and mount it smack in the center of the roof of the car. You can use a mag-mount if your queasy about drilling holes or just put a permanent mount in... call it cellular ready when your ready to sell it! I use a Diamond dual band and have never had any problems with it. 73, Dale ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dale H. Chidester, PhD N3HAL "Against stupidity, even the Cyanamid Agricultural Research Center Gods in vain doth contend." Agricultural Products Research Divison Schiller PO Box 400, Clarksville Rd. Phone: (609) 716-2430 Princeton, NJ 08543-0400 Email: chidesterd@pt.cyanamid.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:32 1996 From: Richard Kiefer Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 20:44:21 -0800 Message-ID: <31352F25.7006@athena.csdco.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gstq5$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> <31328D67.27B2@athena.csdco.com> <4guqea$4kfe@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de wrote: > > In article <31328D67.27B2@athena.csdco.com>, > Richard Kiefer wrote: > > >1. Tune a tuner to its operating point to match a tranmitter to an > >antenna. > >2. Then, disconnect the tuner and measure its complex input impedance > >with its output open. > > Richard, > > It is easy to show that your method does not work: > Imagine someone had incorporated (without your knowledge) a resistor > in your tuner just before the output connector in series with the > coax inner, you would not detect its losses, because it carries no current > when the output is open circuit. > > The way around is to measure all four scattering parameters, if you want a > result more accurate than what can be got from a reflectometer. > > 73, Moritz DL5UH Moritz, I see your point, yes if there was a reactive element in series with the output connector it's losses would not contribute to the resistive part of the complex impedance measurement. So, it seems that you could short the output connector of the tuner, making it a one port device. Then a measurement of the complex impedance at the input connector would contain a real part representing the total loss that would disipate power inside the box and a complex part. When some complex impedance is connected to the ouput connector in the form of an antenna some other real part will appear in parallel with what you measure but the power disipated inside the tuner should remain the same unless the losses of the components is power dependent. What do you think? From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:34 1996 From: Gary Davidson Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 28 Feb 1996 20:50:46 GMT Message-ID: <4h2f76$sre@miwok.nbn.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4goe25$e0n@miwok.nbn.com> <4gtrdg$6ht@miwok.nbn.com> <4gu8i4$oib@usenet.pa.dec.com> >Feel free to ignore the issue. I don't believe anyone is losing >sleep over this, but that doesn't mean it is pointless to discuss. > >73, >Todd >N9MWB > THIS all reminds me of the current TV commercial, where the customer in the restaurant orders coffee, and when asked "regular, or decaf?", stares blankly off into space as endless scenarios of risk flash thru his mind - and all activity in the restaurant screeches to a halt. All the technobabble this *SIMPLE* question presented has *YET* to offer even the simplest estimate! Meanwhile, the questioner has NO idea whether his potential tuner will merely perform like a big dummy load, or actually result, for HIM, in a usable system allowing him reasonable operation of his station. *I* can personally state that *MY* past experience with tuners has ALWAYS provided me with improved operation of equipment that would either function POORLY without the tuner, or not at all! The fact that the tuner was used did not magically "improve" the radiating efficiency of my antenna, it only made my transmitter operate more efficiently. Tuners are almost always a compromise for a properly designed and installed antenna, but sometimes these poor antenna situations are all that is available. What would you rather do, operate your rig into an inefficient antenna direct, resulting in 25 watts out of a 100 watt rig, or use the compromise available with the tuner, increase your output power to 100 watts, and *ACCEPT* whatever reasonable loss the tuner caused to provide an overall system improvement? Or are you *STILL* standing there puzzled by "regular, or decaf?"... -- Gary... KJ6Q... I am the NRA | Annoy a Liberal - say NO to gun control! ============================ | Annoy a Democrat - say BYE BYE CLINTON! "Did you come here to *LEARN*|================================== or to nose around, make rude | "It's *EASY* to be a liberal, it's noises & provide proof our | OTHER people's money you are giving educational system stinks?" | away! (or living off of!) From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:35 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:31:45 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4goe25$e0n@miwok.nbn.com> <4gveku <4h05jt$k1o@miwok.nbn.com> gary writes: >a better match. While I personally feel this is a "standard" scenario, I >have no better idea of what sort of setup the original poster had in mind >than anyone else responding to the question - so why attempt to "make up" >all sorts of difficult scenarios, complete with correspondingly complex >ways to check out power loss, when it may simply be stated for the one >ASKING the question "power loss thru a reasonably designed tuner, >properly adjusted, will range from 5 to 15 percent, depending on antenna >and feedline type" Hi again Gary, I have a slight advantage over you. Tom, WB7ASR and I had lunch together the day after he asked the question. He had previously used the unbalanced tuner/balun/ladder-line configuration which is why I turned it that direction. FYI, I think it's the ARRL Antenna Book that says in a reasonably well matched system, an antenna tuner shouldn't soak up more than about 0.5dB. While running 100w, the coil in my MFJ949 melted the plastic supports and the coil kinda sagged. Seems that might have been more than 5 to 15 percent. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:37 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 9:1 Baluns Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 23:45:16 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4gspst$riu@news.hal-pc.org> writes: >If I have 50 ohm coax feeding into a 450 ohm ladder line, wouldn't I need a >9:1 balum? Say, the ladder line connects to a long centerfeed dipole. I don't know of any 450+j0 impedance antennas. If your SWR is not 1/1 then your 9/1 balun will *never* see 450 ohms. The higher the SWR on the 450 ohm line the further away from 450 ohms will be the impedances on the ladder-line. The SWR on ladder-line can be measured with a pickup loop and a voltmeter. Why not just measure it and ease your mind? I have done it for all HF bands and now I have an accurate estimate of the SWR and terminating impedance of my ladder-line for all bands of interest. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:37 1996 From: armond@delphi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Quads Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 02:11:28 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4h2m17$rc8@opal.southwind.net> Lee Buller writes: >the thing would stand up to Kansas wind, rain, sleet and snow? A Since the Gem Quad was invented in Canada! I do think it has stood up to [D From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:39 1996 From: gcouger@master.ceat.okstate.edu (COUGER GORDON) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Why long wire TVI Date: 29 Feb 1996 02:26:49 GMT Message-ID: <4h32t9$jpg@news.cis.okstate.edu> References: <4gtl4r$12n@globe.indirect.com> <1996Feb28.175020.12571@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: Gordon Couger >In article <4gtl4r$12n@globe.indirect.com> davev@bio2.com writes: >>Simple question: why do long wire antennas cause more TVI than most >>other types of antennas? >> >>All responses appreciated. Correct answers appreciated even >>more. At the risk of being over simplistic have you tried rotating the tv antenna. A high gain antenna gets that gain in one direction at the expense of others. Gordon AB5DG Gordon Couger Biosystems & Agricultural Engineering. 114 AG Hall Stillwater, OK 74075 gcouger@master.ceat.okstate.edu 405 744 8392 day 625-2855 evenings From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:41 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Strange Phenonomon on G5RV Date: 29 Feb 1996 02:46:59 GMT Message-ID: <4h3433$2nb@news.fwi.com> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com Wow, This one will get ya thinking. I live in Northern Indiana and last nite we h ad thunderstorms and relatively spring like weather. I have an 80 meter length G 5RV strung between two trees. The antenna is stretched pretty taut and is about 3 5' average in height. Well, the thunderstorm left the area about midnight. By this morning the wea ther changed drastically and we had a wind chill of -30 degrees. In other words it was in Hoosier parlance 'whooping it up!' I had pulled the PL-259 out of my HF rig last night and left it laying acro ss a book. About 7:30 this morning I started hearing a 'snapping sound' about ever y 15 seconds. It was loud enough that the Jethro Tull CD that I had playing was be ing interrupted by this 'snapping'. Low and behold I looked over in the direction of the PL-259 and the 'snapping' was actually an arc between the center pin and the barrel of the connector. I lifted the end of the cable away from the book, an d isolated it from anything combustible. The phenonomon continued on for about 35 more minutes. During this time, it was snowing, cleared, and flurried agai n. I guess the reason for the post, is that even in a weather situation where it was not 'lightning and thunder' conditions, and ungrounded open end feedline can bring you a real surprise. If I had been working with combustibles, this coul d have been a 'post mortem'. Anybody else ever see this? Jim WD9AHF From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:42 1996 From: little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 29 Feb 1996 02:59:53 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4h34r9$3ef@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4goe25$e0n@miwok.nbn.com> <4gtrdg$6ht@miwok.nbn.com> <4gu8i4$oib@usenet.pa.dec.com> <4h2f76$sre@miwok.nbn.com> Reply-To: little@pecan.enet.dec.com In article <4h2f76$sre@miwok.nbn.com> Gary Davidson wrote: >>Feel free to ignore the issue. I don't believe anyone is losing >>sleep over this, but that doesn't mean it is pointless to discuss. > THIS all reminds me of the current TV commercial, where the customer in > the restaurant orders coffee, and when asked "regular, or decaf?", stares > blankly off into space as endless scenarios of risk flash thru his mind - > and all activity in the restaurant screeches to a halt. > What would you rather do, operate your rig into an inefficient antenna > direct, resulting in 25 watts out of a 100 watt rig, or use the > compromise available with the tuner, increase your output power to 100 > watts, and *ACCEPT* whatever reasonable loss the tuner caused to provide > an overall system improvement? > Or are you *STILL* standing there puzzled by "regular, or decaf?"... Well, given that I rarely drink decaf, I don't believe I am "standing there puzzled...". I don't recall the originator of this thread giving enough information to make a reasonable guess. If the tuner is using a coil wound with 40 gauge nichrome wire and really lossy capacitors, any estimate based upon a reasonable design would be meaningless. Personally, I'd rather operate into a resonant antenna that provided a reasonable match to begin with. Lacking that, I'd try to understand the load I was trying to match and work to convert it into a load my transmitter could handle. Both require knowledge instead of ignorance. That was the only point of my post, i.e., a debate that uncovers the issues to be considered is a worthwhile debate. Ignoring the issues to be considered accomplishes nothing. 73, Todd N9MWB From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:44 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:43:25 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4goe25$e0n@miwok.nbn.com> Gary Davidson writes: >From: Gary Davidson >Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? >Date: 28 Feb 1996 20:50:46 GMT >>Feel free to ignore the issue. I don't believe anyone is losing >>sleep over this, but that doesn't mean it is pointless to discuss. >> >>73, >>Todd >>N9MWB >> [Oops, I spilled (regular) coffee on some of this] >What would you rather do, operate your rig into an inefficient antenna >direct, resulting in 25 watts out of a 100 watt rig, or use the >compromise available with the tuner, increase your output power to 100 >watts, and *ACCEPT* whatever reasonable loss the tuner caused to provide >an overall system improvement? OK, enough nonsense. The question was how much power does a tuner consume. The answer is 6 dB. There, a definitive answer. I can give you (easily) a real world example where this is true. So in your example, you can get 25 watts out of the bare radio or 25 watts out of the tuner. Which do you prefer? (As his eyes glaze over, he's thinking, "Do I want bare or tuner? Hmm. Darn. Lemme see now, if I don't buy a tuner, I could spend the money on some more ammo...") From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:45 1996 From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Connector losses Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 06:46:02 LOCAL Message-ID: References: <199602250258.UAA10487@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> <1996Feb28.180453.12779@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> In article <1996Feb28.180453.12779@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) writes: >From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) >Subject: Re: Connector losses >Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:04:53 GMT >In article n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) >writes: >> >>The bottom line is, as in most things, it depends. >At HF, however, I'd suggest that about the only thing that >"depends" is the quality of the soldering job done to install >the connector. If you're getting noticable loss from a coax >connector at HF, it's almost certainly due to poor installation, >not due to any mismatch it may be introducing. Agreed. But as I said, more connectors equal more opportunities for Murphy;-) 73, Wes -- N7WS From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:46 1996 From: Kent Winrich Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Apartment Antenna Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 09:21:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3135E091.5A77@execpc.com> References: <4gub8i$k8m@newsbf02.news.aol.com> I have used a downspout as well. I even tuned it up on 160 and made a contact with a HK0! Just watch out for the ol' TVI! Kent Winrich, NI9U Waukesha, WI Bill Starkgraf wrote: > > I am in the same situation. I tried the wire around inside, but > with all the mesh > in the stucco, I couldn't really get out. Since I live on the > first floor, I ran > the coax out my patio door hidden in all the ground cover and > when I get to the > downspout, I clip the center lead to this and the shield to the > copper tubing > of the large air conditioner unit in front of the downspout. It > seemed strange that > at the bottom of the downspout there was some missing paint > (HI-HI). This works > OK but boy is it directional. Living just NW of LA I can hit > Northern California > real well (579 running 30 watts), but anything a few miles in > the other direction, I > have no luck. I was wonderering if anyone out there had any other ideas? > > The small guage wire with a weight on the end would work if I > pitched it onto > the roof. I am not sure what the apartment management would > say. They did catch > me hooking my downspout/rain gutter antenna. I explained that > it was to improve > what I can receive on my radio. Sorry I forgot to tell them > that I was also > transmitting. The next thought that came into their minds was > the ugly wire connection. > I explained that it was already connected and showed then the > coax. They had to really > look for it. Actuall when the coax comes out of the ground > cover and comes onto the > air conditioner pad, I cnaged the coax from black to white. > Hides it a little more even though > it is in the open. > > 73 > > Bill, KD6UQB > > Bill Starkgraf, KD6UQB > wps@elsegundoca.attgis.com > AT&T Global Information Solutions > El Segundo, CA From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:48 1996 From: ed@fore.com (Ed Bathgate) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 29 Feb 1996 11:47:05 -0500 Message-ID: <4h4la9$rb6@baleen.fore.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4goe25$e0n@miwok.nbn.com> <4gtrdg$6ht@miwok.nbn.com> <4gu8i4$oib@usenet.pa.dec.com> <4h2f76$sre@miwok.nbn.com> Correct me if Im wrong, but impedance transformation networks are normally not very lossy. And all the losses will be as heat. And that the power ratings of tuners are not when they overheat, but when they start to arc between the capacitor plates or the internal connections. In my actual tests, I believe a tuner is worth its weight in lost hair trying to get a dipole to resonate correctly, add to that the problems of tuning more than 1 band, and bandwidth / swr factors for 1 band. I also am a great believer in feedline loss under high swr conditions. I was using a ANTRON 99 /solarcon 10m vertical with 50' rg58 on 10m with no problems. The manual says that you can use a tuner to get it clear to 40m. Well I tried it. It does tu ne, but... signal loss was tremendous! about s1 on cw portion of 40. I switched to a 300 ohm twin lead fed, semi inverted vee dipole, retuned, and the same signals that were s1 were now s9+20! And the highest point on the V/dipole is 5' below the base of the A-99. 73 Ed N3SDO From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:48 1996 From: rice@ttd.teradyne.com (John Rice) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Alarm decal antenna. Date: 29 Feb 96 14:08:29 CDT Message-ID: <1996Feb29.140829.1@ttd.teradyne.com> References: <4gv3hm$oou@oldsuna.gmr.com> In article <4gv3hm$oou@oldsuna.gmr.com>, dstuben@rcsuna.gmr.com (David Stuben) writes: > I would like to know if anyone is using the patch type antenna that was > advertised in QST some months ago. This antenna is disguised as a alarm > decal, and is for the 2m band. I am interested in this type of an antenna > for a new truck that I have on order. I have a glass mount antenna now, > but the performance is somewhat marginal. NOTHING you can put finside the cab is going to outperform (or perform nearly as well) as an external 1/4wave antenna. -------- John Rice - K9IJ | "I speak for myself, not my employer". k9ij@avsoft.com | Miracles, Magic and Sleight-of-hand done here. k9ij@amsat.org | Licensed since 1959 (708)-438-5065 - (bbs ) | Ex: K8YZR, KH6GHC, WB9CSP, W9MMB, WA1TXV From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:49 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (Mike, KN6IS) Subject: Re: Cubical Quad Antennas for HF Message-ID: References: <4fsgkr$2v3@btr0x6.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de> <4gu415$797@B1FF.mindspring.com> <4gur91$3rl@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 15:34:21 GMT > > > Could anyone Post a way to contact both Cubex and LBA (Lighting Bolt Ant) > > Thanks and 73's > > Mike Mike, you can reach Cubex on the internet at http://www.cubex.com/cubex.htm Good Luck. -- Mike, KN6IS From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:50 1996 From: gmp@tl.KRakow.PL (Grzegorz Brzozowski) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Anteny Date: 29 Feb 96 16:46:45 GMT Message-ID: Czy posiadasz schematy dotyczace anten i sprzetu do nich.Jezeli tak to prze slij je na adres gmp@.tl.krakow.pl From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:51 1996 From: rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Quads Date: 29 Feb 1996 17:30:10 GMT Message-ID: <4h4nr2$ca0@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> References: <4h2m17$rc8@opal.southwind.net> armond@delphi.com writes: >Lee Buller writes: >>the thing would stand up to Kansas wind, rain, sleet and snow? A >Since the Gem Quad was invented in Canada! I do think it has stood up to Mine (a 4-el) stands up to northern Alberta wind, snow, and cold just fine, but the thought of heavy icing (as you often get in warmer climates) gives me the willies. Quads don't like ice loads. GQ spreaders are open fibreglass lattice trusses, with a lot of surface area, and they'd pick up a *lot* of ice in the right circumstances. Fortunately, ice storms are almost unknown around here - doesn't get warm enough, and winters are dry. (It was -32 on Monday AM.) In a slightly more theoretic vein, the GemQuad is an "X" quad; the spreaders are all at 45o from the vertical, and the wires are either horizontal or vertical. But there's a good case from mechanical considerations to build a quad in the "+" configuration instead, with the *wires* at 45o and the spreaders either vertical or horizontal. One advantage is that in icing conditions, the water tends to run down the sloped wires and drip off; and the second is that a vertical spreader can carry much more weight than one that's at 45o. I've considered rotating my GQ 45o to get into a "+" position, but it would be a major pain in the low back to haul it down and do the work. And, as I've mentioned, icing isn't much of a concern at my QTH. The other reason against the mod is that the hubs of a GQ are angled like squat pyramids; even if you twisted the boom to get into the "+" configuration, the spreaders would still be tilted outwards. That's the price you pay for getting a shorter boom - everything's a tradeoff. regards, Ross ve6pdq -- Ross Alexander, ve6pdq -- (403) 675 6311 -- rwa@cs.athabascau.ca From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:52 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: dstock@hpqmdla.sqf.hp.com (David Stockton) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 17:44:21 GMT References: <1996Feb28.173004.12349@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Gary Coffman (gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us) wrote: : The problem with that, David, is that the vector voltmeter would need : resolution even better than that required to use the Bird we were : originally discussing, IE too many significant figures, at the extreme : load impedances Roy was suggesting. That would cost big bucks, if it : were practical to do at all. It seems better to me to take advantage : of the characteristics of the existing feedline to yield the information : needed without resorting to elaborate or expensive measuring equipment. I think it's a general problem with ultra high VSWR, whatever way you do it you wind up with nasty measurement accuracy requirements. Still, immense VSWR on any feedline is probably a more deserving case for antenna/line redesign than it is for precision measurement. The answer to the original question of how much power an antenna tuner consumes is simple.... "It depends!" Most tuners have control redundncy and have an infinite number of settings that will transform the same impedence, what varies across this range is the amount of power dissipated in the radiation resistance of the antenna and the amount of power dissipated in the losses (mostly the ESR of the inductor) of the tuner. Added to this is the 2 dimensional infinities of impedence that the unit could be working into. Efficiency will degrade dramatically into extreme load Z's. The range of possible efficiency will be getting close to the 0 and 100% limits Cheers David GM4ZNX From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:53 1996 From: gary Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 29 Feb 1996 18:46:39 GMT Message-ID: <4h4sag$dhb@miwok.nbn.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gdfng$4ov@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4goe25$e0n@miwok.nbn.com> <4gtrdg$6ht@miwok.nbn.com> <4gu8i4$oib@usenet.pa.dec.com> <4h2f76$sre@miwok.nbn.com> <4h4la9$rb6@baleen.fore.com> ed@fore.com (Ed Bathgate) wrote: > >Correct me if Im wrong, but impedance transformation networks are normally no t >very lossy. >In my actual tests, I believe a tuner is worth its weight in lost hair trying >to get a dipole to resonate correctly, add to that the problems of tuning >more than 1 band, and bandwidth / swr factors for 1 band. > >Ed N3SDO THANKS ED! My point *EXACTLY!* Why agonize over what is in MOST cases a minimal, and acceptable power loss thru a tuner when the overall gain in power output and efficiency provided to the transmitter is potentially so great? Some of the proposals offered here would have the original questioner adding to his tuner purchase, a duplicate tuner (for direct side by side comparison), a precision wattmeter for readings on both sides of the tuner (sort of tough when the antenna is an end fed wire!), and assorted RF ampmeters. By this time, the questioner has either spent nearly $1000 in measuring equipment, or given up in disgust, and *STILL* has NO answer, or even an educated GUESS to his question! -- Gary....KJ6Q *** I AM THE NRA! *** From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:54 1996 From: Richard Kiefer Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 4 ele Gem Quad Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:21:29 -0800 Message-ID: <31366D39.5EBD@athena.csdco.com> References: <4g1kh4$84@nuntius.u-net.net> <4gfhmn$5ph@murphy.servtech.com> > Robert G. Strickland KE2WY > rcrgs@regcon.syr.servtech.com > Syracuse, New York Hi Bob, Interesting to read that you have been modeling quads with EZNEC, same here. Wondering what you are discovering. For example, I find that a two element quad has about 2 db more gain than a two element yagi, and about 1-2 degrees lower take off angle for the same height of 80 feet. And, I find that a pair of stacked quads seems to perform about the same as a pair of stacked yagis. In practice do you find that the quad is any more quiet during atmospheric noise events like thunder storms? I am putting up a tower in the spring and wondering what kind of antennas to put on it. Will be rotating the tower. Dick Kiefer, K0DK From lwbyppp@epix.net Fri Mar 01 21:01:55 1996 From: Richard Kiefer Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 900 Mhz Beam needed Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 19:25:34 -0800 Message-ID: <31366E2E.3F81@athena.csdco.com> References: <4gvr1b$5ur@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com> Brian Rayl wrote: > > I am building some link radios on 900 MHz for point to point > and plan to use low power (about 10 MW). Who has some good deals > on these. I used to get stuff from Down East Microwave. They > used to have some nice loop yagi antana for 900 and 1200 MHz. > they no longer seem to be around. > Any info would be a great help. > > Brian Rayl N7MOE Larsen makes a 6 element yagi for the 902-928 MHz band, cost about $100. I have two of them here. Seem to work well in the experiments I have run. Dick Kiefer, K0DK From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:13 1996 From: Richard Kiefer Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 900 MHz phones Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:38:54 -0800 Message-ID: <31312B4E.7F0D@athena.csdco.com> References: <960224201719_430839032@mail02.mail.aol.com> BColenso@aol.COM wrote: > > Hi all: > > Our test team at work is considering buying a 900 MHz cordless phone. I see m > to remember a few years ago there was some health concerns regarding cordles s > of cellular phones operated in this frequency range. > > Can anyone tell me the latest on this, or am I completely off base? > > Thanks > > Bob KD8WUI believe that the currently available 900 MHz cordless phones ar e spread spectrum transmitters running a maximum of 1 watt, if that much. Probably not a problem. The cell phone band is down around 850 +/- Mhz. Dick Kiefer, K0DK From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:14 1996 From: kb2sca@aol.com (KB2SCA) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Wanted: Crank-Up Tower Date: 25 Feb 1996 21:48:55 -0500 Message-ID: <4gr72n$ane@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: kb2sca@aol.com (KB2SCA) Hi, Paul, K2DB here, and I am looking for a fairly NEW 55 to 72 foot crank-up. Must be rated at 18 SQ FT. Whatcha got and how many green-stamps ya need ?? Willing to pick up in the northeast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 73 From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:15 1996 From: Mat Eshpeter Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Looking for manual, Mosley Classic 33 Date: 26 Feb 1996 03:44:57 GMT Message-ID: <4grabp$ss8@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> I am looking for a manual for a Mosley Classic 33 antenna. If you can help me, please email me. Thanks. Mat mat@clearnet.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:16 1996 From: little@pecan.enet.dec.com (Todd Little) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: 26 Feb 1996 04:06:15 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4grbjn$dpt@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> <4gqtvh$dpl@news.fwi.com> Reply-To: little@pecan.enet.dec.com In article <4gqtvh$dpl@news.fwi.com> macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: > Looks like Wes there is teasing you a little. Maybe he can come with a 50 db > antenna design for you that'll boost your 2 watt HT to 200,000 Watts Effect ive > Radiated Power output. Just be careful who you point that thing at! Just to make sure this doesn't propogate a common myth, it matters little where he points that thing. The 2 watt HT is still only producing 2 watts. Even concentrated in a small area, it is unlikely to be harmful. So while 200,000 watts ERP sounds like a lot, it would be little worse than placing your hand over the rubber duck on the HT and transmitting. And although he may be teasing a little, my experience with trying to cut through the chaos of a random voice QSO pass of the shuttle seems to indicate there is a *LOT* of QRM to deal with. After all, the shuttle sees a significant portion of the USA at a time. Line of sight from 200-400 km of altitude is pretty far. 73, Todd N9MWB From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:17 1996 From: sholisky Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 26 Feb 1996 05:20:00 GMT Message-ID: <4grfu0$1rs@blackice.winternet.com> References: <1996Feb23.201810.11807@schbbs.mot.com> I have tried heights up to 40 feet with the R5. Higher just meant the local noise was lower. Get it away from those "detuning objects" and enjoy. As a compromise antenna, I don't think you could ask for more. No turning the rotor, just grab the key and "pounce on em'". This is the BIG advantage of the antenna. 73's Scott PS- loads on 80..but..the noise... From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:18 1996 From: stransmann@aol.com (Stransmann) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mounting height of R5? Date: 26 Feb 1996 13:26:42 -0500 Message-ID: <4gsu12$9i@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4gmfbk$ng0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: stransmann@aol.com (Stransmann) I have to agree, Woody. My R5 ain't worth the powder to blow it to hell! I worked with the factory & ended up shortening it a foot and a half before the SWR would even begin to come down! As for the "pileups" someone mentioned in another post, I think the only "pile" is the line of BS Cushcraft spews forth in its ads about the R5. Thank God for my TA-33 Mosley beam. Now THAT'S an antenna!!! From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:18 1996 From: zoom@willow.sps.mot.com (Chris Terwilliger) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Universal Towers-opinions? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:04:51 -0700 Message-ID: Fishing for opinion, experiences, etc. with Universal Towers before I order one... tnx 73 -- Chris Terwilliger, AA7WD zoom@willow.sps.mot.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:20 1996 From: richardm@advance.COM.AU (Richard Murnane x2175) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: RE: Organic verticals Date: 26 Feb 96 15:12:00 GMT Message-ID: <3130FB36@central.advance.com.au> > Date: 21 Feb 1996 16:17:11 GMT > From: Rod Dinkins > Subject: GOOFY ANTENNAS -- RF GOTTA GO SOMEWHERE! : : > During WWI, a Signal Corp Manual recommended loading up a frazzled tree > when all antennas had been knocked down. Another article suggests that > Palm Trees load well. Run to your nearest juicy tree with some ladder > line! The British mag "Electronics World & Wireless World" did a feature on the wartime loading of banana trees. Sorry I don't recall the date, but it was sometime in the last five years. 73 Richard VK2SKY ================================================================ Wireless Institute of Australia (VK2) on the Web: http://sydney.dialix.oz.au/~wiansw ================================================================ From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:21 1996 From: REMAPC05@ Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 26 Feb 1996 16:29:39 GMT Distribution: usa Message-ID: <4gsn5j$k9b@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu> <4gcs28$srg@news.ios.com> Reply-To: REMAPC05@ In <4gcs28$srg@news.ios.com>, macino@mail.fwi.com writes: >In <3128BE66.60B0@uiuc.edu>, "C. J. Hawley" writes: >>macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: >>> >>> In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) w rites: >>> >How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming >>> >when in use? >>> > >>> >Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of it, measure >>> the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the p ower >>> out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. >>> >>> 73's WD9AHF - JimWell, the wattmeter w ill have to work at the output impedance of the tuner....... >>Did anyone read the series of articles last year on tuner losses? Some of th e comments >>posted here are contrary to the findings of the author. One that comes to mi nd is that >>the loss is independent of the impedance being matched. The articles usually showed that >>losses were greater for the same SWR when the impedance of the load was low rather than >>high. The author, Frank Witt AI1H, used the fact that the SWR measured at th e input of a >>tuner with loss will not correctly report the mismatch at it's output. The l osses are >>proportional to the error in the reported SWR. For example, he adjusts a tun er to 1:1 >>for a 100 ohm load. Then he replaces the load with a 50 ohm load, and then a 200 ohm >>load. The deviation of the SWR from 2:1 in both cases is due to the loss in the tuner. >>Read the articles April,May 1995. What do you guys think? >>-- >> >> >>Charles Jack Hawley Jr. >>Amateur Radio KE9UW (A.K.A. 'Chuck' in Ham Radio) >>BMW K100RS, BMWMOA #224 (A.K.A. 'Jack' in Motorcycles) >>hawley@aries.scs.uiuc.edu >>Sr. Research Engineer Emeritus >>Univ of Ill, Urbana-Champaign >> >> >Hi again, > I think you are complicating a pretty basic problem. Why not just put a non > reactive load that matches what you think is your feed point impedance and > measure Current and voltage there, and back at the transmitter, again using a > non reactive load do the same. If the two power readings don't match, that's > the loss. Did you ever build an amplifier and tune the inductor for the maxi mum > efficiency? Maybe I've landed in the middle of a thread that I don't know w hats > gone on before, but I can't see what your hung up on. Sorry > Jim Jim, I think that you have offered the most common sense approach to this issue. However, is it even necessary to use a nonreactive load approximating the impedance of an intended antenna? Why not just use the intended antenna as the load and measure the RF voltage and current at the input and output of the tuner - period? Maybe I am overlooking something and the issue is not as simple as this? Regards, Roy K9ER From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:22 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: choffman@pelican.davlin.net (Charles Hoffman) Subject: Re: CCD antennas..how do I scale them (dowm!) ??? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:48:04 GMT Reply-To: choffman @pelican.davlin.net References: <4epn4c$bei@linet02.li.net> <4fqp8j$fnc@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz> I have considerable experience designing and building variations on antennas similar to the one you call CCD. It is possible to reduce the physical length required for the antenna. You should be able to form the length into something of a compressed square wave design or a sine wave design without difficulty. A 40m amateur version may be reduced to lengths ten to twelve feet long and spaced two or three feet apart. Do this with each half of the dipole configeration so that all long lengths are parallel. DO NOT FORM THE LENGTH INTO A COIL. This arrangement may be placed directly on the ground or on the non metallic rooftop without difficulty. While the antenna sensitivity is of course reduced, you will be able to use it for many general amateur radio purposes. Even better results may be expected with this configuration if suspended inside four poles at about ten feet of height, and construct a poultry netting wire counterpoise on the ground under it. You may attach the counterpoise to the rig with a half wave long piece of insulated wire sucessfully. I have built dozens of various antenna designs using magnetic wave component phasing with remarkable sucess on frequencies from 1 mHz to over 800 mHz. You have a good project there. Just persue with a specific mission and you will be much happier with the result. You willl have some fun and just remember, if this project makes you sick, I am not a real doctor. 73 Ric K5SBU Richard Hulse wrote: >Thanks Bob... >I had already built and 80 m version of the CCD which worked very well at >my last place. It was folded back on itself and ran very close to a large >tree and part of the roof. Unfortunately the houses next to where I now >live are very close together....a CCD folded back on itself 4 times would >no doubt upset the neighbours. Having just writen that I wonder if the >antenna could be folded _on_top_ of itself to reduce the length? >> I found this in an article by Harold Wheeler on HF antennas >>designed to be mounted UNDERGROUND! >Could you let me know where this was? >> Some day I will buy a bunch of 1100 >>pF 1000V 5% dipped micas and rebuild the thing, and try again. >The problems is they are so time consuming to make! I took a week off >work to make my 80m one about ten years ago. If the performance hadn't >been so good I wouldn't be contemplating doing it again. Perhaps I should >wait until my kids grow up a bit more and get them to help! >Regards >Richard Hulse >ZL2AJC From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:23 1996 From: REMAPC05@ Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Feedpoint impedance - Extended double Zepp Date: 26 Feb 1996 16:49:20 GMT Distribution: usa Message-ID: <4gsoag$lqc@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> Reply-To: REMAPC05@ None of the references I have state the feedpoint impedance of this type of antenna - only that it is high. I would like to go for the 3 db gain advantage of this antenna but an open wire feeder is out of the question at my site. Can a balun and coax feed be used or is the recommended open feed an integral part of the operation of the antenna and not subtitutable? What ya think? Regards, Roy K9ER From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:24 1996 From: sid@hal-pc.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 9:1 Baluns Date: 26 Feb 1996 17:16:13 GMT Message-ID: <4gspst$riu@news.hal-pc.org> References: OK, you are getting close to something I have never really understood. If I have 50 ohm coax feeding into a 450 ohm ladder line, wouldn't I need a 9:1 balum? Say, the ladder line connects to a long centerfeed dipole. If the answer is no, please explain why. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sid George, CPA sid@hal-pc.org ._ _... ..... _.._ .._ http://www.hal-pc.org/~sid ------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:25 1996 From: sid@hal-pc.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Information For C.B. Radio Date: 26 Feb 1996 17:35:50 GMT Message-ID: <4gsr1m$riu@news.hal-pc.org> References: <4gbcf4$4rn@news-2.ccinet.ab.ca> The simplest antenna might be a half-wave dipole. I'm not sure what frequency the CB band is, but the formula is : the length of wire in feet = 468/(the frequency in Mhz) For the CB band that might be: 18 feet = 468/26.0 Mhz. Take this 18 feet of wire and cut it in half. Attach (solder is best) one end to the center feed point and attach the other 9 foot wire to the ground feed. Then connect the antenna feed line to you CB radio. Place the 18 foot antenna as high up as you can get it. The higher the better, but at least, 9 feet up. If this confussing, go to the library and check out an antenna book, "The ARRL Antenna Book" is best, and look up DIPLOES. Good luck and don"t be put off by some of the idiot answers. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sid George, CPA sid@hal-pc.org ._ _... ..... _.._ .._ http://www.hal-pc.org/~sid ------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:26 1996 From: aw638@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU (Louise Carkenord) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: protecting fiberglass pole vault poles Date: 26 Feb 96 17:40:31 GMT Message-ID: <199602261740.KAA03849@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU> Reply-To: aw638@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU I am using several fiberglass pole vault poles in antenna applications. What is the best protective "paint" for the poles?? Fiberglass resin, polyurethane......what would best protect these poles from UV, smog, etc????? Lee KA0FPJ From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:27 1996 From: sid@hal-pc.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Apartment Antenna Date: 26 Feb 1996 17:45:41 GMT Message-ID: <4gsrk5$riu@news.hal-pc.org> References: <4gl9ou$rc4@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> > ELBV14A@prodigy.com (William Pulvermacher) writes: > Anyone know of a reliable antenna to be used in an apartment. > Preferrably something that I dont have to sneek into the attic for. I > live on the second floor and have a balcony outside. I don't want to > kill the nieghbors either. It's a stock Galaxy DX88HL. Mostly used on > 11m. > > Thanks Snoshu. . . > The simplest would be a half-wave dipole. The best bang for the buck would be a two or three element yagi, but it would take more room than a dipole. Both are very simple to build yourself, see "The ARRL Antenna Book". Your interference is more a function of the power you use, assuming you have a good commercial grade radio, i.e., not homebrew. The lower the power, the less chance of interference. A good antenna can increase your output 200 to 300 percent. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sid George, CPA sid@hal-pc.org ._ _... ..... _.._ .._ http://www.hal-pc.org/~sid ------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:28 1996 From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: SWR=3:1 How do I lower it? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 18:13:48 GMT Message-ID: <4gst78$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4gkshn$5u5@fcnews.fc.hp.com> In article <4gkshn$5u5@fcnews.fc.hp.com>, Edward Lawrence wrote: >sco@sco-inc.com wrote: >>I have a small 6m SQLOOP antenna and my meter says I have a 3:1 SWR. >>What can I do to lower the SWR? Just out of curiosity, why do you want to lower the SWR? Roy Lewallen, W7EL From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:29 1996 From: MandD@ix.netcom.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: question on propogation Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 18:42:01 GMT Message-ID: <4gsutu$i5a@cloner3.netcom.com> I am not in ham radio but thought maybe someone out there could answer a question for me. I am an RF tech working in satellite communications. Can someone give me a good definition of PROPOGATION...(propogation delay, RF propogation or whatever) We were having a discussion one day at work and cant agree on it....Yes, I guess we got a liitle to much time on our hand. Your definition would be greatly apreciated. Please Email me if you can help. Thanks in advance, Mike MANDD@ix.netcom.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:30 1996 From: Scott Rosen Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: test Date: 26 Feb 1996 20:40:10 GMT Message-ID: <4gt5ra$ral@ns.kern.com> This is a test message, please ignore, sorry From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:30 1996 From: n9kvx@hsonline.net (jim anderson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: mobile antennas Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 22:07:07 GMT Message-ID: <4gshk3$o5@news.hsonline.net> does anyone have any suggestions on mobile antennas for 2meter and 440 for motorcycles..tnxs will get into hf later..jim From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:32 1996 From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: need plans for 6m antenna Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:35:02 GMT Message-ID: <4gtc1j$lgi@news1.inlink.com> References: <4gaqpe$884@news-e2a.gnn.com> MMcanally@gnn.com (Mark McAnally) wrote: >Does anyone know of a source for a simple yet effective dipole or >vertical 6m homebrew antenna? Thanks in advance KE4QKN in >Milton, FL Hi Mark Check out my home page under Copper Cactus at http://www.inlink.com/~raiar The numbers you need to construct a single band 6-m J-Pole are the same as for the multi-band. I use J-Poles almost exclusively now, most are the mirror image J's which for 6-m I installed it such that I can turn horizontal if need be. TTUL Gary From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:33 1996 From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: a slinky antenna? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:44:36 GMT Message-ID: <4gtcjl$lgi@news1.inlink.com> References: <4g3b0f$1kea@lamar.ColoState.EDU> <4gb583$79n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> johnn0isl@aol.com (John N0ISL) wrote: >Got this reply from Clark.. I had to smile because it greatly parallels >the experience I had with the slinky.... >>Subj: Re: a slinky antenna? >>Date: 96-02-18 22:03:27 EST >>From: turner@safety.ICS.UCI.EDU (Clark Savage Turner WA3JPG) >>To: johnn0isl@aol.com >>Most of the comments seem to have been on the "commercial" >>version, the "slinky" antenna. However, as usual, I feel >>the hype was a bit loud back then..... >>Just buy a pair of slinky's at your local toy store! What, >>$8 or something? OK. Now get some short clip leads from >>Radio Shack. Another $1. Fine. Now get some cheap TV >>twin lead or some coax. Strip the ends and feed the clip >>leads to the ends of the slinky's. Hang them as high as >>you can and stretch them out to fit your space. Put it all >>into a tuner and there you are. >>It works fine. I have done it. I had a small apartment on the >>3rd floor of a building where no antennas were allowed. However, >>there was a clothesline that went through a pulley to a pole >>about 40 feet away and 20 feet in the air. I hung one slinky >>onto the line and pulled it out when it got dark and fed it from >>the end. It worked great. I pulled it back when I was done >>operating. Kept me on the air. Worked DX. Had fun. Cheap. >>73 >>Clark >>WA3JPG >Has anybody tried the Telex "adjustable dipole" It was two steel measuring >tapes >that unrolled to the lengths reuired for the frequency selected. I also >remeber a military antenna that worked the same way.. Any of you SF folks >bring one home?.. >73 John N0ISL >John Douglas, N0ISL >AX.25 N0ISL@KZ7I.#MSP.MN.USA.NOAM >I'm in Minnesota only because I must be somewhere! I just finished building a small adjustable antenna similar to the Telex using those itsy bitsy slinkies. 1-1/4 inch diameter jobs. Construction was similar to a mirrored-J rather than dipole type, using 1/2 inch PVC construction for the mast surrounded by the slinkies that extended each direction from center and cut to 440 MHz. within the 1/2 PVC was 3/8 PVC so I could telescope the slinkies out to 2-meters. A single pinhole was drilled after the SWR was adjusted to insure the same length of extension each use. A small stainless steel rod was used for the matching element and PVC for the mount. Previous to this antenna, I had used slinkies as end fed vertical dipoles with great success. A string was tied inside the slinky to limit its extension and a second line was used to toss the topside over an existing object on field trips. For VHF/UHF work, I prefer the small diameter slinkies and for HF work, the larger standard size slinkies. TTUL Gary PS - mirror image J's can be found on my web page at http://www.inlink.com/~raiar From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:35 1996 From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What is good for 6m? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 22:53:26 GMT Message-ID: <4gtd44$lgi@news1.inlink.com> References: <96047.093724BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <825239825.24637@drmoody.demon.co.uk> darrellm@drmoody.demon.co.uk (Darrell Moody) wrote: > wrote: >>Hello, >>just want to get some info. on what antennas >>seem to "do the job" on 6 meters. >>What is good, what is not. >As usual, the bigger the better. I've worked stations at 1000 miles+ >with half a watt to a dipole via Sporadic E, but I reckon a 3 ele yagi >is a minimum for reasonable performance - worked 70 DXCC countries on >mine until I replaced it with a 5 ele. If I had the space it would be >a 6 ele Crushcraft but most of us in the UK do not have much land. >Propagation isn't too hot at the moment, mainly summer Sporadic E, but >last year we had 2 weeks of short UK-US openings so don't give up. >-------------------------------------- >Darrell G0HVQ UKSMG#353 Loc IO81VV >darrellm@drmoody.demon.co.uk >-------------------------------------- For local use, I stick with verticals, I have a 6-m ringo that I don't particularly like too well. And several home brew J-Pole types of various designs. For daily repeater use, a standard J-Pole is great, for mobile to mobile I use a stacked-J and when band conditions are just right for DX I have a mirror image J that I installed in such a way that I can flip it from vertical to horizontal polarization at the push of a button. Needless to say, Js are omni-directional, therefore a beam or yagi would be more appropriate for the serious DXer. However, I would like to say that when the band is open, the type of antenna doesn't seem to matter all that much. It's those times that are just marginal that a 32 element yagi sure would be nice, Hi Hi.... TTUL Gary From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:37 1996 From: nstn2527@fox.nstn.ca (nstn2527) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: CB antenna to 2m 5/8? Date: 27 Feb 1996 00:53:03 GMT Message-ID: <4gtklg$mvn@news.nstn.ca> References: <4gf5um$lmk_001@news.marble.net> <022196222004Rnf0.79b6@ham.island.net> Reply-To: nstn2527@fox.nstn.ca In article , ken@cs.sonoma.edu says... > >On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Dan O'Connell wrote: > >> On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Robert Smits wrote: >> >> > benw@fesi.com (Benjamin J. Weiss)KE6HRM writes: >> > >> > >Hi! >> > > >> > >I bought a used CB mag-mount antenna, as I had hear that it >> > >was easy to convert one to a 2m 5/8 whip. I went down to >> > >the local library and looked at W1FB's Antenna Notebook, >> > >the ARRL Antenna Compendium Vol 1, and the 1994 ARRL Handbook. >> > >> the article was in CQ magazine sometime before 1988, because I used >> the article to modify a mag cb antenna. Also used it on 6 meters! >> Dan WA7TDZ oconneld@mail.oit.osshe.edu > >I took an old Radio Shack mag mount CB antenna and cut the radiator down >and rewound the coil for a 5/8 on 220. Works just fine. It just >happened that the coil form was already the same size as the plans in the >ARRL Handbook and Antenna Book for their 220 5/8 antenna. > >Ken > >________________________________________________________________________ __ >Ken Harrison --- ken@cs.sonoma.edu --- Amateur Radio: N6MHG >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There was a program for the Commodore 64 that helped one design a mobile antenna by calculating no. of turns, coil diameter and length, length and diameter of whip to accommodate a desired frequency. But who uses the Commodore anymore? I don't know of a similar program for the PC but it would be nice to have for experimentation. Les Hiltz Kingston, Nova Scotia > > > From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:39 1996 From: sid@hal-pc.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Length Date: 27 Feb 1996 01:38:51 GMT Message-ID: <4gtnbb$t7@news.hal-pc.org> References: <4ggesq$29pe@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> > KNCJ39A@prodigy.com (Glen Reifsnyder) writes: > I am in Princeton, NJ and want to receive CBC Radio out of Toronto, > Ontario at 740 on the AM band. I have a GE Super Radio with external > connections for an AM antenna. How long should the antenna be to receive > 740? Is there a formula to determine the antenna length knowing the > frequency? Yes, the formula is L = 468/F where L is the length of a half-wave dipole and F is the frequence in Mhz. F for 740 kilohertz would be 0.74, which would make your antenna a little long, but good. For you, the longer the wire, the better. What type of wire do I use? Basicly, it does not matter. I can only have the antenna > inside the house, first floor or basement. The higher, the better. Should the wire run around > the baseboard of a room? Does not matter. Do the number of angles or turns in the length > or wire make a difference? Not really. > > Thanks! > > > - > GLEN REIFSNYDER KNCJ39A@prodigy.com > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sid George, CPA sid@hal-pc.org ._ _... ..... _.._ .._ http://www.hal-pc.org/~sid ------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:40 1996 From: pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Apartment Antenna Date: 27 Feb 1996 02:18:42 -0500 Message-ID: <4gub8i$k8m@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4gsrk5$riu@news.hal-pc.org> Reply-To: pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) > ELBV14A@prodigy.com (William Pulvermacher) writes: > Anyone know of a reliable antenna to be used in an apartment. > Preferrably something that I dont have to sneek into the attic for. I > live on the second floor and have a balcony outside. I don't want to > kill the nieghbors either. It's a stock Galaxy DX88HL. Mostly used on > 11m. You might try a horizontal loop inside. Start by stringing a wire near the ceiling, all the way around a room. Feed the antenna with coax at a corner, through a tuner. The antenna will work best on bands where the loop is a significant part of a full wavelength, or longer. Experiment with feedlines and baluns for best results. A cheap and unobtrusive way of getting started is to use small gauge solid wire, say #26-#36 gauge. Wayne W5GIE From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:41 1996 From: mchasse@primenet.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Cubical Quad Antennas for HF Date: 27 Feb 1996 04:52:01 -0700 Message-ID: <4gur91$3rl@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> References: <4fsgkr$2v3@btr0x6.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de> <4gu415$797@B1FF.mindspring.com> Reply-To: mchasse@primenet.com In <4gu415$797@B1FF.mindspring.com>, kr4tg@mindspring.com (mike del pozzo) wri tes: >a0378@btr0x7.hrz.Uni-Bayreuth.DE (Karl-Heinz Merscher,,,) wrote: > > > >>Hi out there, > >>is there anybody who operats with a LBA (Lightning Bolt Antennas) or a >>cubical quad antenna made by CUBEX?? > >>The LBA antennas are cheaper than the Cubex antennas. In the catalogues >>it seems that the CUBEX antennas are better in stability. > >>Any exerperiences with that antennas?? > >>I'm searching for a supplier of a good cubical quad antenna ... > >>Thanks in advance! > >>Charlie > >>DL6RDE >Hello Charlie, like the other gentlemen , Another happy Quad owner >here. I have replaced the Hygain 5 el monobands with the Cubex 4 >element tribander. Very Heavy-duty stuff. It has since survived Ice >loading ( even in Atlanta ) 70+ MPH wind and even My installation... >The tuning is a bit touchy but will come around OK . Performs best if >elements are fed seperately. 1st QSO on 20 was with KC4AAA in >Antarctica. Signals are incomparable with Yagis . Hope all goes well >with yours and well see you durring CQWW WPX somewhere >73's de KR4TG , Mike > > Could anyone Post a way to contact both Cubex and LBA (Lighting Bolt Ant) Thanks and 73's Mike From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:42 1996 From: dstuben@rcsuna.gmr.com (David Stuben) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Alarm decal antenna. Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 14:32:02 GMT Message-ID: <4gv3hm$oou@oldsuna.gmr.com> I would like to know if anyone is using the patch type antenna that was advertised in QST some months ago. This antenna is disguised as a alarm decal, and is for the 2m band. I am interested in this type of an antenna for a new truck that I have on order. I have a glass mount antenna now, but the performance is somewhat marginal. A quarter wave magmount works better! I could just drill a hole in the roof, but something inside seems neat too. Also any information on loop type antennas for 2m/440, such as feeding, mounting,etc would be great. Thanks!! David C. Stuben dstuben@rcsuna.gmr.com Electronic Data Systems, Advanced Computing Center From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:43 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: mai@iquest.net (Patrick Croft) Subject: ROHN 45 & 55 TOWERS Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:02:21 GMT I'm hunting sections of Rohn 45 and/or 55 towers, and the various hardware acc essories that go with them. Additionally, I'm interested in buying a RTS (Dick Weber) rotating tower sy stem or parts for Rohn 25,45,55. PLEASE EMAIL ME WHAT YOU HAVE - EVEN A SINGLE SECTION OF TOWER CONSIDERED ! With all the swap nets, corners of garages holding 'spares', and plans that ge t changed, keep this WTB in mind when you hear someone looking to sell! Somebody's got to have some somewhere! Thanks! WB9IQI - Patrick Croft Daytime Tel:(317)257-6811 Fax:(317)257-1590 email:mai@iquest.net From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:44 1996 From: macino@mail.fwi.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 27 Feb 1996 16:15:57 GMT Message-ID: <4gvant$t4u@news.fwi.com> References: <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4ga0lt$dho@news.ios.com> <4gfk3h$ktd@nntp.netside.com> Reply-To: macino@mail.fwi.com In <4gfk3h$ktd@nntp.netside.com>, k4kxo@netside.com (Kenneth Ferguson) writes: >Theoretically, an antenna tuner does not dissipate power, de k4kxo. >macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: > >>In <4g2j6u$12e1@chnews.ch.intel.com>, tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) wri tes: >>>How can you tell how much RF power an antenna tuner is consuming >>>when in use? >>> >>>Is this a trick question? How about putting a wattmeter just in front of it , measure >> the power in, then put the wattmeter on the output side and measure the pow er >> out. The difference should be WATT your loosing in the tuner. > >> 73's WD9AHF - Jim > > Ken, Theoretically, a bumble bee can't fly. Jim From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:45 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Message-ID: <1996Feb27.171924.7810@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <1996Feb21.161918.10531@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gj6ba$f95@maureen.teleport.com> <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> <4gstq5$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:19:24 GMT In article <4gstq5$6l5@maureen.teleport.com> w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: >In article <1996Feb24.105430.22651@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, > gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) wrote: > >>For a balanced tuner, we'd want to use hot wire ammeters, and a RF >>voltmeter that we could move along the line, to determine power out. >>The RF voltmeter would let us directly determine VSWR and give us >>a direct tuner output voltage reading. Combined with the RF current >>readings of the hot wire ammeters (one in each leg) we could then >>determine power out by cranking the formulas. > >It's not obvious to me how this would work. Wouldn't we have to know the >phase angle between the voltage and current to determine the power? > >Roy Lewallen, W7EL Yeah, we do. We need another bit of information to get that don't we? If we knew the terminating load impedance, we'd be home free, but we don't know that. We discovered the voltage peak with the RF voltmeter, but we need to find the current peak too. Then the phase angle can be determined by the length of line between the two peaks. Looks like we need a current probe, can be relative, that we can move along the line too. That could be as simple as a NE-2 and a small loop, mounted on a wooden stick we could move along the line. Or we could get fancy and use a split ferrite, a diode, and a meter. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:47 1996 From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Transmatch Loss Date: 28 Feb 1996 16:31:09 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4h200d$t16@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us I would like to offer a suggestion for finding transmatch loss: 1) Assume the following: a) T, Pi or L circuit or the different variations. b) For simplicity, no Xfmrs or link coupling. c) Neglect common mode currents (usually OK). 2) Using a digital capacitance meter, temporarily disconnect each capacitor and get a capacitance vs dial reading calibration for each. 3) Using a known capacitor and a grid dipper, get the coil inductance vs its dial setting. 4) If it is not possible to measure coil Q, assume a value, say 300 or whatever you feel comfortable with. At low values of L the Q may drop off, say 10 percent. 5) Connect transmatch to feedline and tune for *exactly* 1.0 SWR. Measure the power. 6) We now know the following: a) input resistance Rin = 50 Ohms b) power input c) input voltage Vin d) input current Iin *in phase* with Vin 7) We now have the info to find the following: a) all voltages b) all currents c) the power dissipation in the coil or coils (estimate?) d) the value of the complex load impedance. e) the power to the load. f) transmatch efficiency. 8) Set up a Mathcad work sheet or a spreadsheet to perform ladder circuit analysis equations to solve for these quantities. If you are not comfortable with the mathematics, get help from your neighborhood rocket scientist. 9) Once this is set up it can be used as often as desired to completely understand what's going on. 10) If the coil Q is not known precisely, at least we can get an approximation and some *comparative* answers. If at all possible, try to get Q values for each ham band. Maybe the coil manufacturer can be helpful. 11) If desired, the effects of stray C and L values can be included to get a small improvement in accuracy. For extremely reactive loads the accuracy of the load impedance calculation will degrade somewhat, no doubt. From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:48 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bill Starkgraf Subject: Re: Apartment Antenna Message-ID: Reply-To: wps@ElSegundoCA.attgis.com (WPS) References: <4gub8i$k8m@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 16:34:44 GMT I am in the same situation. I tried the wire around inside, but with all the mesh in the stucco, I couldn't really get out. Since I live on the first floor, I ran the coax out my patio door hidden in all the ground cover and when I get to the downspout, I clip the center lead to this and the shield to the copper tubing of the large air conditioner unit in front of the downspout. It seemed strange that at the bottom of the downspout there was some missing paint (HI-HI). This works OK but boy is it directional. Living just NW of LA I can hit Northern California real well (579 running 30 watts), but anything a few miles in the other direction, I have no luck. I was wonderering if anyone out there had any other ideas? The small guage wire with a weight on the end would work if I pitched it onto the roof. I am not sure what the apartment management would say. They did catch me hooking my downspout/rain gutter antenna. I explained that it was to improve what I can receive on my radio. Sorry I forgot to tell them that I was also transmitting. The next thought that came into their minds was the ugly wire connection. I explained that it was already connected and showed then the coax. They had to really look for it. Actuall when the coax comes out of the ground cover and comes onto the air conditioner pad, I cnaged the coax from black to white. Hides it a little more even though it is in the open. 73 Bill, KD6UQB Bill Starkgraf, KD6UQB wps@elsegundoca.attgis.com AT&T Global Information Solutions El Segundo, CA From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:49 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Why long wire TVI Message-ID: <1996Feb28.175020.12571@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4gtl4r$12n@globe.indirect.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:50:20 GMT In article <4gtl4r$12n@globe.indirect.com> davev@bio2.com writes: >Simple question: why do long wire antennas cause more TVI than most >other types of antennas? > >All responses appreciated. Correct answers appreciated even >more. The short answer is that they don't. However, if you bring the antenna into the house in order to attach it directly to the station, you'll have higher RF potentials in the house than you would with an antenna whose feedpoint is outside the house, and that can lead to greater fundamental overload problems with TVs in the house. It isn't the antenna design, it's how you feed it that makes the difference. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:51 1996 From: Dan O'Connell Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ARRL Ant Handbook VHF Quagi Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:55:32 -0800 Message-ID: References: <4gtg5v$ni8@murrow.corp.sgi.com> On 26 Feb 1996, Jim Fellows wrote: > Hi, > > I was planning on constructing some quagi antennas and noticed a couple of > strange things about the plans in the ARRL Antenna Handbook 17th ed. 1994 > pg18-33. > > Now I thought that it might be a typo and looked at the plans for the 1296 > version and saw some strangeness there also. > > Here we see the element taper as as least *I* would expect it (always gettin g > shorter), but the spacing goes up from 2.92 to 4.75 then down again to 3.94. > This I don't expect. > > Well, if it works, then it works and I'll give it a try. But before I waste my > time and money following a plan that may have been mistyped or something, I' d > like to know if anybody else has constructed either of these with success or if > my edition has faulty plans. Or anything else that someone might have to ad d > about these designs. > > > Thanks, > > Jim > KF6AGJ > > The lengths etc. are correct. have built MANY quagis as they are dirt cheap, and give lots of gain, but you pay for it in a fairly poor pattern; side lobes. Great for portable use, as I dont mind to much when they get broken ( I used to take spare parts on my Grid dxpeditions) I could give you reasons for the spacing difference etc, but I am at school and all my ref. is at home. Have fun with them! Dan WA7TDZ oconneld@mail.oit.osshe.edu From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:52 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: HF Mobile Magnetic Mount Message-ID: <1996Feb28.175552.12660@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <199602251723.MAA11927@soho.ios.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:55:52 GMT In article <199602251723.MAA11927@soho.ios.com> rlc@soho.ios.COM writes: >Can anyone give me feedback on using any type of HF antenna with the >extra large multi-pad magnetic mounts? Bob AA2UV >(rlc@soho.ios.com) Be *very* careful where you drive. I bought one of these things to mount a Comet HF antenna on the roof of my Cherokee. Works fine until you drive under the first bridge. The magnets won't give, but the antenna sure does. Now rigging up a bumper mount. :-) Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:53 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Connector losses Message-ID: <1996Feb28.180453.12779@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <199602250258.UAA10487@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:04:53 GMT In article n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) w rites: > >The bottom line is, as in most things, it depends. At HF, however, I'd suggest that about the only thing that "depends" is the quality of the soldering job done to install the connector. If you're getting noticable loss from a coax connector at HF, it's almost certainly due to poor installation, not due to any mismatch it may be introducing. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:54 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Rabbit ears better than roof top tv antenna? Message-ID: <1996Feb28.181358.12882@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) References: <4gq1jt$2t7@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 18:13:58 GMT In article <4gq1jt$2t7@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> deanap@teleport.com (Dean) writes: >I know that must sound rather stupid but this is the problem I am having. > >I recently moved into a new house. It has no cable service. When I first se t >up my TV I hooked up a cheap set of rabbit ears. I received a few stations >fairly well and a couple others not as well. I also picked up a UHF station I >had never seen before. (I only moved about a mile from where I lived before) >Anyway, I figured if I could pick these stations up this good with rabbit >ears, with a roof top antenna they should be perfect. I bought a 59 element >VHF/UHF/FM antenna. I mounted it in the attic for now just to see how much >better the reception would be. To my utter surprise it was not much better >than the rabbit ears! One of the stations came in a little better, most of >the others about the same. The one UHF channel that I had never seen before >does not come in at all???? > >Now I realise that mounting it on the roof would be better and should increas e >the performance, but the rabbit ears were laying on their side on top of my >set. The attic of my house is much higher than that. > >I am using RG6 cable for the roof top antenna straight into the TV. The >rabbit ears use twin lead. > >Could I possibly have a bad matching transformer? Or is the antenna being in >the attic the problem? Or maybe I just have a crappie antenna. But anything >has got to be better than rabbit ears, right? > >As you may be able to tell I am not real knowledgeable about antennas. And I >know this is not a radio antenna problem, but this seemed like the place to g o >for an educated opinion. Dean, your new yagi antenna is *directional*. You have to *point* it at the desired station. If you aren't pointing it toward the desired station, it will be *worse* than the rabbit ears. In most locations, not all the stations will be in the same direction, so you need a way to *rotate* the antenna so that it points at the station you are watching at the time. With an antenna as large as you describe, I doubt that's possible in your attic, so you need to get it outside and mounted above a *rotator* so that you can point it toward the various stations. Gary Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | Due to provider problems Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | with previous uucp address es 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | Email to ke4zv@radio.org Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:56 1996 From: tom_boza@ccm.ch.intel.com (WB7ASR) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: shuttle communication on 2 meter Date: 28 Feb 1996 23:51:34 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <4h2pq6$jav@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> <4gqtvh$dpl@news.fwi.com> macino@mail.fwi.com wrote: >In , n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) writes: >>In article <00001fea+0000208c@msn.com> barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) writ es: >>>From: barryhimes@msn.com (Barry Himes) >>>Subject: shuttle communication on 2 meter >>>Date: 23 Feb 96 22:28:20 -0800 >> >>>I am interested in building an antenna to contact the Shuttle. I want >>>to use my HT and a very directional antenna. What sort should be >>>built? I fear that a yagi my not be focused enough to do the job. >> >>>Any ideas? >>>Barry Himes KF6AZU >> >> >>As one of only about 350 hams who contacted the first shuttle op, W5LFL, I >>suggest that you forget trying with an HT. There will be hundreds of people >>calling and on FM, it's the big guy that captures the receiver. I recommend >>1500W and 20 dB of antenna gain. Worked for me:-) >> >>73, Wes -- N7WS >> > > Barry, > > Looks like Wes there is teasing you a little. Maybe he can come with a 50 d b > antenna design for you that'll boost your 2 watt HT to 200,000 Watts Effecti ve > Radiated Power output. Just be careful who you point that thing at! > > P.S. I see you've 'hamming' for just about a month. Welcome to the zoo. > > Jim WD9AHF Unless you have the "BIG" station, forget about working the shuttle. They only talk with pre-determined scheduled contacts (schools), or stations with the loudest signals ( EME arrays with 1KW amps). When their above your horizon, there are about 200+ stations on the average all calling them at the same time you are. The BIG signal will win!!! WB7ASR... From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:57 1996 From: Cecil Moore Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feedpoint impedance - Extended double Zepp Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 01:17:55 -0500 Message-ID: References: <4gsoag$lqc@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> writes: > None of the references I have state the feedpoint impedance of this >type of antenna - only that it is high. I would like to go for the 3 db >gain advantage of this antenna but an open wire feeder is out of the question >at my site. Can a balun and coax feed be used or is the recommended open Hi again Roy, I quit the other posting too soon. The most logical way to feed an EDZ may be ala G5RV style. A 0.22 wavelength 300 ohm matching section should transform the antenna impedance to about 30 ohms. Feed it at that point with coax through a 1:1 choke. 0.22 WL of 300 ohm ladder- line on 14.2 MHz is about 12 ft. Hope 12 ft of ladder-line is not out of the question. What band are you interested in? 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:58 1996 From: aa6eg@tmx.COM (Pat Barthelow) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Rotator Date: 29 Feb 96 03:40:51 GMT Message-ID: From: donstone@gate.net (Don Stoner) Subject: Antenna Rotator In article <4gor6j$khn@peanut.senie.com>, dts@peanut.senie.com says... > >In article <4go8mc$466@news.gate.net>, Don Stoner wrote: >>I hope to put up a 7-30 MHz log periodic antenna. I'd like recommendations on a suitable rotator. Cost not important but am interested in strength of casting because of high windloading. Appreciate ur comments and suggestions. 73 W6TNS Hi Don, I am using a Hy-Gain 1017 Log Periodic, good from 6.2 to 30 Mhz. A spinoff benefit of the base clousres arond the country, as we were able to save for amateur radio re-use, the Ft. Ord Army Mars Station. The antenna is described in the Hy-Gain Commercial/Military catalog, and is a monster. (Even though the catalog describes it as a smaller, compromise LP, both in price and size, compared to it's huge big brothers.) It weighs 382 lbs, has 33 sq feet of area, a 38 foot boom, and max element length of 50 feet. Mounted at 65 feet, on a standard, cookie cutter design structure common to MARS installations (3 wooden poles, triangular orientation, about 15 feet on a side, with a wooden platform on top, and guyed.) It is rotated using a Hy-Gain 3501 rotator, itself a 250 lb monster, that has 23,000 inch pounds braking torque, and 9000 inch-pounds rotating torque. It is beautiful to a ham, visually, but would raise screams of protest from any nearby neighbors, if put up in a residential neighborhood. Such an installation is not a trivial project, and you should have a PE (engineer) validate the design of any such structure. I wish you luck on your antenna project, and would like to hear how it turns out. 73 de Pat, AA6EG@tmx.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:57:59 1996 From: n8kwx@email.starnetinc.com (Marc Holdwick) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hole size for NMO ant mount? Date: 29 Feb 1996 04:07:27 GMT Message-ID: References: <4ga68v$pao@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4gg8cd$h8r@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3130f769.9798758@news.primenet.com> There is a company (I believe MaxRad) that makes a 3/8" NMO mount. Now we're in the territory of a twist drill... I've used one for several years with great results. Plus a 3/8" hole is bound to be easier to "repair" if ever need be. 73 Marc - N8KWX/9 In article <3130f769.9798758@news.primenet.com>, mitch@primenet.com wrote: > ptracy@aol.com (PTracy) wrote: > > >In article <4ga68v$pao@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, woodybozak@aol.com > >(Woodybozak) writes: > > > >> However, if you want to use what Larsen recommends, they > >>sell (or used to sell) their own 3/4" saw that also removed a 1/16" area > >>of paint beyond the hole to provide a good ground connection for the From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:58:01 1996 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: How much RF pwr does an ant tuner consume? Date: 29 Feb 1996 15:38:54 -0500 Message-ID: <4h52su$s50@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4h4tns$dhb@miwok.nbn.com> In article <4h4tns$dhb@miwok.nbn.com>, gary writes: >I think that by now, faced with all the proposed work to "measure and >evaluate tuner losses" to feed my miserable random length end fed wire, >and the expense of all those wattmeters, RF meters, Bridges and duplicate >tuners, I would just sell my radios, and take up stamp collecting - it's >*FAR* less stressful... >-- >Gary....KJ6Q Actually not Gary. The rules are simple. Most power loss is in the inductor or balun. 1. Use the lowest Q possible when adjusting the network. With a T type tuner this is the maximum capacitance that permits a match. 2. Avoid 4:1 baluns, especially if the load is very reactive and has a very low or high resistive component. 1:1 choke baluns are always more efficient. 3. (At more than a few hundred watts) If the tuner's inductor, case (from inductive heating), or balun doesn't get *real* hot efficiency is almost certainly good. In one tuner I tested, the loss was very low yet the inductor got pretty hot. Someone else mentioned it before, think of how hot a 100 watt bulb gets! 4. With any commercial T net amateur grade tuner, capacitive and low resistance loads on the lowest frequencies always produce the most loss. Avoid them. See, no big deal. 73 Tom From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:58:02 1996 From: maillet@ensm-douai.fr (MAILLET.D) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: help me for choise antenna in seal boat Date: 29 Feb 1996 15:53:45 GMT Message-ID: <4h4i69$4p1@netserver.univ-lille1.fr> in juin y travel baleare in seal. wich sort of antenna and equiment do you instaled ? tnx. maillet@ensm-douai.fr /MM From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:58:03 1996 From: Christopher Trask Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feedpoint impedance - Extended double Zepp Date: 29 Feb 1996 18:22:01 -0700 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <4h5jfp$okf@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> References: <4gsoag$lqc@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> In article <4gsoag$lqc@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> you wrote: : None of the references I have state the feedpoint impedance of this : type of antenna - only that it is high. I would like to go for the 3 db : gain advantage of this antenna but an open wire feeder is out of the questio n : at my site. Can a balun and coax feed be used or is the recommended open : feed an integral part of the operation of the antenna and not subtitutable? Look at the Fall 1995 issue of "Communications Quarterly." In the article "Modeling and Understanding Small Beams: Part 3 (The EDZ Family of Antennas)," you will find a good deal of discussion on this topic, as well as feedpoint impedances. The references cited at the end of the article would probably be well worth looking into as well. BTW: There is nothing sacred about open feed line. A coax line with a balun at the antenna feedpoint will work just fine, although coax is a bit more lossy than open line. -- Regards, Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris Trask / N7ZWY Circuit Design for the RF Impaired ATG Design Services __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ ctrask@primenet.com _~_ /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / (@ @) / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / ----------------------ooO~(_)~Ooo--------------------------------------------- From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:58:04 1996 From: Jim Jennings Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: RFD Antenna Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 18:42:16 -0600 Message-ID: <313647E8.541A@spindletop.tamu.edu> Does anyone have experience with the RFD antenna shown on p 20.17 of the 95 ARRL Handbook? I would like to use it on 80/75 meters. What about using a current balun rather than the 8 turn coil at the 1/2 wave point? Any comments about using 2 wires at the end to try to broadband the antenna? The alternatives would probably be an inverted vee (broadbanded by putting 2 elements on each end). The midpoint of the inverted vee (or top of the RFD) would be at about 150 ft. Thanks for any discussion. 73 Jim, KE5HE From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:58:06 1996 From: mcross@cv.hp.com (Minor_Cross) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Connector losses Date: 29 Feb 1996 21:09:59 GMT Message-ID: <4h54n7$74@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> References: <199602250258.UAA10487@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> Concerning losses in the connectors, here's an article that was posted by Alan Bloom back in 1992 -------------8< cut here >8--------------------------------------- From: alanb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Alan Bloom) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 Subject: The Truth about UHF Connectors Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA Ya gotta feel sorry for UHF connectors. Recent strings on this notes group lambasted them as worthless at VHF and above, and barely tolerable at HF. One poster called them "5 dB attenuators", and many agreed that there must be some sort of conspiracy among ham equipment manufacturers to inflict such garbage connectors on the amateur community. Today I finally remembered to bring some UHF adapters from home so I could do some relative measurements of UHF versus type-N. As expected, the type-N showed lower insertion loss at high frequencies, but the UHF connectors were hardly "5 dB attenuators." For the test I connected an HP8753 RF network analyzer through two short BNC cables into the following arrangement: _______ ____________ ___________ ____________ _______ | | | BNC female | | N female- | | N male to | | | __| 10 dB |__| to N male |__| N female |__| BNC female |__| 10 dB |__ | Atten.| | adapter | | adapter | | adapter | | Atten.| |_______| |____________| |___________| |____________| |_______| Then I repeated the measurement with the N adapters replaced with UHF. I normalized the measurements by replacing the 3 adapters with a BNC double-female. (That is, this was assumed to have 0 dB loss.) Since two N or UHF adapters were used, I assume the loss per connector is half the total. The vertical scale was .1 dB/division, so I estimated the insertion loss to the nearest .01 dB or so: --------- Type N ---------- ---------- UHF ------------ FREQ (MHz) TOTAL LOSS PER CONNECTOR TOTAL LOSS PER CONNECTOR 1.8 0 dB 0 dB 0 dB 0 dB 30 0 0 0 0 100 0 0 0 0 150 0 0 .02 .01 200 0 0 .03 .015 450 0 0 .18 .09 600 0 0 .26 .13 900 0 0 .66 .33 1000 .05 .025 .8 .4 1300 .1 .05 .86 .43 1600 .05 .025 .5 .25 2000 .05 .025 .02 .01 Insertion loss increases until about 1200 MHz, and then starts to decrease until it is almost zero for the UHF connector at 2 GHz! At this frequency, the connectors are about 1/4 wave long (1 inch, assuming .66 velocity factor), so I assume that the two adapters are providing a conjugate match to each other. This confirms my assumption that the insertion loss is due to reflections (impedance mismatch), not absorption (true power loss). Bottom line: UHF connectors work fine through the VHF range, and are not too bad even on the 420 MHz band if you can stand about .1 dB mismatch loss per connector. By the way, I did not do the full 2-port calibration on the HP8753, so there is a couple hundredth's dB ripple in the plots. I averaged this out by eye to come up with the numbers in the above chart. AL N1AL -------------8< cut here >8--------------------------------------- Hope this helps some. 73 Minor Insert Standard Disclaimer notice here: Minor Cross KD7YJ e-mail: mcross@cv.hp.com From lwbyppp@epix.net Thu Mar 07 09:58:07 1996 From: bumski@ix.netcom.com (Gregory K. Dawson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Looking for Broadband Linear Amplifier Operating in 20 to 1000megahertz Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 21:41:33 GMT Message-ID: <4h56m6$f4r@cloner4.netcom.com> I'm looking for a broadband linear operating from 20 to 1000 megahertz range. The minimum final output must be 50 watts. Please, e-mail me at bumski@ix.netcom.com if you have one. Please send asking price, phone number, and address. Thanks, Greg