The World of Ham Radio CD-ROM From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:04 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news From: Dave Hockaday Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Beacon antenna for 1296 Date: 1 Dec 1995 00:16:47 GMT Organization: News & Observer Public Access Lines: 26 Message-ID: <49lhhf$53f@castle.nando.net> References: <4974o8$jhl@news.dx.net> <8174997628001@lss.humnet.humberc.on.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1111.nando.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) To: hduff@humnet.humberc.on.ca >I hope it is as simple as you suggest. I've had several people tell me >how "simple" it is but nobody can provide me DETAILS on constructing >one. I've had quick "lunch-napkin descriptions" of it but never enough >info to actually build one. I understand that it uses a series of >phased coax within the antenna tubing too !? >I built a 1296 beacon that needs a decent horizontal-omni antenna. >This would really fill the bill. I'd also appreciate more info if you >have it. I'll gladly reimburse your photocopying and postage fees if >you could kindly send the info to me. >Regards..Hugh Duff VA3TO Toronto HI Hugh! I'm a member of the Triangle ATV association here in the Triangle area of NC. We have a pair of Alford slots for the 70 CM rx/tx. I don't know much about them, but there is a regular piece of 50 ohm feedline inside, no funny matching sections that I remember. I'm gonna forward your message to the experts in the club that have worked extensively with these antennas. Although they were for 70 cm, perhaps they can provide the info needed for scaling them to 1.2. Our club experts are: Brian - brianh@excide.com, and Woody - kj4so@msn.com. Hope that helps. 73 de WB4IUY From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:05 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!iglou!iglou2!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou2.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Apartment "Stealth" Solved! X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2.iglou.com Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:29:43 GMT Lines: 14 I've seen the advertised for a long time. One thing that bothered me was the claim that it works on antennas up to 90ft long. Does that mean that somehow it wont work on longer wires? What about something on the order of a center fed zep cut for 160 meters using open wire line and a 4:1 balun at the tuner??? Is there any reason why this wouldn't work or would you have to prune the feeders as we so often do with this type of antenna. What does the manual say about this? Also what is the max power handeling capacity? -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newshub.cts.com!news1.crl.com!nntp.crl.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!news.netins.net!usenet From: crcarlson@netins.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Which HF Vertical Date: 1 Dec 1995 03:43:27 GMT Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA Lines: 30 Message-ID: <0099A2F5.7B8A68E1@netins.net> References: <00999C9B.B70996D1@netins.net> <49j43t$4ef@sally.dma.org> Reply-To: crcarlson@netins.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:21909 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17410 In article <49j43t$4ef@sally.dma.org>, millersg@dma.org (Steve Miller) writes: >In article , >John Seney wrote: >>Just saw an ad in the December '95 CQ magazine for a new vertical from >>Hy-Gain that is 10 - 40 meters, stands 29 feet tall, is self supporting, >>and requires no radials. They also make the claim of 750 watts key down >>for 30 minutes and no problems. They don't mention price but I assume it >>is competitive. > >I would be leery of any vertical which the marketing says 'no radials >required'. Efficiency is lost when verticals are mounted on or slightly >above ground. A proper radial system will reduce the ground losses >allowing better radiation from the antenna. Get a Butternut and put out >radials - That's what I did. > > >-- >Steve Miller >millersg@dmapub.dma.org >WD8IXE - Ridin' the aethereal waves Steve I would differ with you on this. Generally what you say is true, but as one raises the feedpoint of a vertical it becomes more effecient. Granted a common-garden-variety type vertical like my real old 14 AVQ shouldn't be used without radials but some verticals are designed with an elevated feedpoint so as to do away with radials. The ideal case in point would be a dipole, made half wave length, tilted on its side. One would NOT want to put radials on such an antenna. The gap works on the elevated feedpoint principle. Read some of the stuff Kurt N Sterba says in WorldRadio about this. Anybody see any holes in what I say here? Peace WB0FDJ From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:07 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!zib-berlin.de!news.tu-chemnitz.de!irz401!news1.urz.tu-dresden.de!server2.rz.uni-leipzig.de!news.uni-jena.de!news.tu-ilmenau.de!prakinf2.PrakInf.TU-Ilmenau.DE!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Anyone know a source for Yagi antenna parts Date: 1 Dec 1995 11:48:44 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 15 Message-ID: <49mq2s$j9o@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <49i6ih$m8p@news.jf.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11820 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17420 >I want to find a source for element-to-boom fittings so >I can build some 2-Meter and 70-cm yagi antennas. Is there >any place or person that sells these? Doug, Suppliers of (amateur) antennas sell these over here. Maybe they do it also at your end. However, one thing: you have too use exactly the type of mounting specified in your design (through the boom, on top of the boom, isolated or connected..). There are correction factors to the element lengths for each method. A successful method is mounting the elements isolated through the boom with nylon rivets. 73, Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:08 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!hookup!news.umbc.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!iglou!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Mobile antennas for Limited Space X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <49cfmf$i8s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <44D0eD1w165w@jackatak.theporch.com> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:40:40 GMT Lines: 17 : I am today toying with an ungodly idea of a vertical loop: about 2M up : from the bumper, then across the top about 5M+ to the passenger side : front bumper, 2M down, and 4" copper flashing under the car.... (NO : attempt to keep the car separate from the antenna...) This would give : a loop circumference of 15M, which ought to behave well, even on 75M! This reminds me of an article in an old 50's CQ which described the Hidden Mobile Loop. The author owned a a large 2 door coupe which has no door pillars. Using a hacksaw, he made a cut through the metal window support frames that hold the windshield and support the roof. He inserted some sort of strong insulator in the cut and connected the coax feeder at that point. This turned the entire car body into a massive loop antenna. How this would work on todays cars with their steel radial tires and computers remains a question. This idea may work better on convertibles. -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:09 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dx.net!news From: jdear@mail.bayou.com (Jim Dear) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought Date: 1 Dec 1995 14:54:30 GMT Organization: The DataXchange Network, Inc Lines: 23 Message-ID: <49n4v6$fvo@news.dx.net> References: <491qio$kh3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <49j4l1$4f4@sally.dma.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: s101.bayou.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 In article <49j4l1$4f4@sally.dma.org>, millersg@dma.org says... > >In article , >Really, 5 to 7 dB is an awful lot to give up. I certainly wouldn't want a >-7 dB efficiency on my transmit/receive capability, nor the power I >purchase from the utility company. Also, a 5 to 7 dB difference is not >'justified', it is poor agreement between model and measurement and >unacceptable by professional standards. >-- >Steve Miller >millersg@dmapub.dma.org >WD8IXE - Ridin' the aethereal waves Yeah, now he can go out and by a 600 watt amplifier to make up for the 7db loss...That's assuming he is only using 100 watts to start with! Or, if he's using 1500 watts, he's now using about 650 watts! Antenna losses DO effect both transmit and receive so it is a compounded problem. Jim Dear, KG5VE jdear@mail.bayou.com From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!church.dcss!hwfn!james!ac032 From: ac032@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Geoff Barrett) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 2 Meter Antennae Date: 1 Dec 1995 15:42:01 GMT Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada. Lines: 7 Message-ID: <49n7o9$qmt@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN] Wanted to buy 2 m antennae Ringo Ranger type.Cannot use a Beam for lack of space. details to this board or e-mail to Geof.Barrett@Canrem.Com VE3WP Geoff Barrett -- From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Apartment "Stealth" Solved! Date: 1 Dec 1995 15:48:14 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <49n83u$18hh@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article , Tony Stalls (K4KYO) wrote: >I don't know why I haven't heard more about these before now. Maybe it's >because they're relatively expensive and go for about $450-500, but from >what I've seen, it seems to be well worth the money, particularly in an >application like this. Hi Tony, I have one mobile and it is fantastic. With a 13 ft. whip, I cover all bands, 10m-40m. The SGC-230 inserts impedance only when needed, so a resonant antenna can be broad-banded with it with only negilble losses. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!netcad.enet.dec.com!wade From: wade@netcad.enet.dec.com (Paul Wade) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: re: 10 GHz dish feed needed Date: 1 Dec 1995 21:30:19 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, LKG1-3/M07 Lines: 44 Distribution: world Message-ID: <49ns5b$s92@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Reply-To: n1bwt@iii.net NNTP-Posting-Host: kali.enet.dec.com >Article 17561 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna: >Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!caen!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.dx.net!news >From: jdear@mail.bayou.com (Jim Dear) >Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna >Subject: Re: 10 GHz dish feed needed >Date: 25 Nov 1995 13:41:07 GMT .. >In article <495br1$1d6s@ns1-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, c002@Lehigh.EDU says... >> >>Hello, i need some info on an EASY to biuld 10 GHz dish feed >> .. >Use the penny splash feed. It just so happens that 3/4 copper pipe >makes excellent waveguide for 10ghz. A copper disk or pcb board cut >circular to 3/4" mounted 3/4" from the end of the copper tubing will >splash the signal into the tubing. Of course all this mounts thru the >center of the dish and the disc is located 3/4" short of the focus. > >Refer to the ARRL Microwave handbook for more info . . . > >KG5VE jdear@mail.bayou.com very interesting. I can't find this feed in the ARRL book - the only thing similar has a much larger disk. do you have any evidence that the above feed actually works? does the f/D of the dish matter? Not that the original post was concerned about these details, only that it be "EASY to biuld"... now if you want something that's really easy to build and works reasonably well, take a piece of ordinary WR90 waveguide with a flange on the end and point that open end at the dish. set it up so the focal point is a bit inside the guide. we've measured efficiencies around 42% on both square and round flanges, on dishes with f/D around 0.45; should also work with other f/D, but efficiency unknown. of course, significantly higher efficiency is possible, but moving away from easy to build. paul N1BWT n1bwt@iii.net From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cgreenha From: cgreenha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Christopher K Greenhalgh) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 2 Meter Antennae Date: 1 Dec 1995 23:14:58 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 22 Message-ID: <49o29i$lbm@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <49n7o9$qmt@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: beauty.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article <49n7o9$qmt@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca>, Geoff Barrett wrote: >Wanted to buy 2 m antennae Ringo Ranger type.Cannot use a Beam for lack >of space. details to this board or e-mail to Geof.Barrett@Canrem.Com > >VE3WP Geoff Barrett Hello Geoff. I had an ARX-2b for a couple years, worked fine, but is all aluminum. Spend the extra money and get a good fiberglass Comet or Diamond. I have the latter, and it works much better than nthe Ringo...has more gain as well. :) -- +=================================+===================================+ |Christopher K. Greenhalgh, N8WCT |cgreenha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | |Electronic/Computer Tech. @ OSU |radio: n8wct@w8cqk.#cmh.oh.usa.noam| +=================================+===================================+ From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:15 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet From: Ken Florence Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 160 meter delta loop Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 23:16:31 -0800 Organization: Enter.Net Lines: 7 Message-ID: <30BFFD4F.32E1@enter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp24.enter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) I can't find much abt this. Can anyone give me the details on a 160 mtr delta loop? Can it be shaped like an upside down triangle? How high should it be. Where do I feed it? Do I need a matching network? Any info is appreciated. -- Ken Florence KA3PLS kenf@enter.net From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:15 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news From: Dave Hockaday Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: TOPBAND/160m Mail Reflector? Date: 2 Dec 1995 00:39:30 GMT Organization: News & Observer Public Access Lines: 13 Message-ID: <49o782$51@castle.nando.net> References: <49mslk$g7o@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: grail716.nando.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) >I understand that there is a TOPBAND Mailing List / email reflector >dealing with 160 Meter operation, but the address (listserv@frontier.net) I >was given is bouncing. >Can someone give me the correct address and instructions for registering >for this mailing list? >73, Jeff Maass NW of Columbus Ohio Amateur Radio K8ND >USPSA/IPSC # L-1192 NROI/CRO PLease post this, if you get it, Jeff. I'd love to subscribe, too. 73 de Dave WB4IUY From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!rkarlqu From: rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 10 GHz dish feed needed Date: 2 Dec 1995 01:30:50 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Lines: 45 Message-ID: <49oa8a$pt0@hpscit.sc.hp.com> References: <49ns5b$s92@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com In article <49ns5b$s92@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, Paul Wade wrote: > >>Article 17561 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna: >>Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!caen!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.dx.net!news >>From: jdear@mail.bayou.com (Jim Dear) >>Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna >>Subject: Re: 10 GHz dish feed needed >>Date: 25 Nov 1995 13:41:07 GMT >.. >>In article <495br1$1d6s@ns1-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, c002@Lehigh.EDU says... >>> >>>Hello, i need some info on an EASY to biuld 10 GHz dish feed >>> >.. >>Use the penny splash feed. It just so happens that 3/4 copper pipe > >do you have any evidence that the above feed actually works? does the f/D >of the dish matter? Not that the original post was concerned about these >details, only that it be "EASY to biuld"... > >now if you want something that's really easy to build and works reasonably >well, take a piece of ordinary WR90 waveguide with a flange on the end >and point that open end at the dish. set it up so the focal point is >a bit inside the guide. we've measured efficiencies around 42% on both >square and round flanges, on dishes with f/D around 0.45; should also >work with other f/D, but efficiency unknown. > >of course, significantly higher efficiency is possible, but moving away >from easy to build. > >paul N1BWT >n1bwt@iii.net Splash plate feeds do work, but to get high efficiency you need to contour the splash plate and surround it with a choke ring plate. You also need some extra bells and whistles for matching. And yes it has to be optimized for a certain f/D. The feed invented during WWII by (now) Stanford Professor Chapin Cutler is a splash plate feed. Efficiencies of over 70% have been claimed for that feed. The military used it to get low profile feeds to replace the goose-neck waveguide feed you described. If you don't need low profile, the goose-neck feed is a lot easier to optimize. Probably for ham radio, you want the goose-neck feed. Rick Karlquist N6RK rkarlqu@scd.hp.com From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet From: Danie Brynard Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: snr for am tv ? Date: 2 Dec 1995 07:47:21 GMT Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change Lines: 5 Message-ID: <49p0a9$5f0@hawk.pix.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: net-8.pta.pix.za Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) What SNR is required for normal vestigial sideband AM TV ? Is there perhaps a ATV usergroup ? From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!ames!waikato!midland.co.nz!usenet From: John Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Gap Titan Date: 2 Dec 1995 08:29:07 GMT Organization: Midland Internet Limited, Network Services Lines: 5 Message-ID: <49p2oj$mro@midland.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: johnw.enternet.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: johnw@enternet.co.nz This antenna is designed for the SSB sections of each band and the manufacturer gives no tuning info. Has anyone tried tweaking the tuner rods etc. to bring it down to the CW frequencies? Any details much appreciated. ZL1AH . From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:19 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought Date: 2 Dec 1995 09:44:15 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 46 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <49ponv$i65@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Russ, In article , alster@micron.net (Russ Ellsworth) writes: >MIKE,Tom that depends on what you are trying to achieve. What is good >enough?? Gosh, if we want to be practical then we might as well all use dipoles. After all, a yagi is only five to seven dB better! >If perfection is the only criteria of performance than the guy >with a 50x100 ft lot is in real troubel and should just give up on 75/160 >if perfection is the only criteria. I don't think the question was about perfect (as most aren't). Wasn't it more "how it works" or is "one thing better than another"? >I stand by the practical measurement >of how good can I get within the limitations of my time, space and money. >The "perfect" 120 radial system all 1/4 wave long and evenly distributed, >evenly placed in the ground certainly sounds nice. Actually the perfect system is a solid silver sheet extending to infinity. With 120 radials, the ideal length is ~.4 wl long for a short vertical. I totally agree with your point. The best that can be done is the best that can be done. But isn't discussing theory and building things fun? IMO, understanding how something really works is the most satisfying!!!!! >I picked the height of >my radial system to not interfere with carrying my ladder in a vertical >position to paint my house. I don't like buried radials because then I >wouldn't have much good gardening space.That isn't very scientific but is >very practical. That's a great idea and a good scheme. I thought about that here. Especially if the staion isn't a max effort deal. I needed a lot of radials for maximum performance, and to use in a test area. I just laid the wires on the earth and pinned them down with steel hooks every few feet. >The 4 inch high system sounds good to train NFL running >backs to pick up their feet. It probably would give you some advantage >compared to the ground losses of buried radials...at least I have read >that in the literature. Ahhh, that's my interest. All the elevated data is based on NEC models alone. I can't find a single real world verification by actual field strength. Stuff like this keeps me from stealing hubcaps for a living! 73 Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.u.washington.edu!root From: Nina West Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna for TV channel 28 Date: 2 Dec 1995 14:33:47 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 13 Message-ID: <49po4b$577@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs21-12.u.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news://news/rec.radio.amateur.antenna/17964-18063#DIpr1C.D31@janus.border.com I hope that this is not too far off-topic. I wouldlike to build a simple, but effective antenna for TV channel 28. This is a frequency of 554 to 560 mHz. (wavelength = 21.2 inches) I have seen many designs in antenna references for yagis, helicals, etc., but I would like to ask the opinion of this group for what they consider to be a easily built and adjusted design. The antenna would be located just under the eaves of the house with about 15 feet of coax to the TV. At present I use a loop taped to the window with about 5 feet of coax. I receive 4,5,7,9,11,13,22, quite well, but 28 is snowy. Thanks for your help. From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.ramlink.net!news From: subich@ramlink.net (Joe Subich) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: TOPBAND/160m Mail Reflector? Date: 2 Dec 1995 14:46:09 GMT Organization: RAMLink Internet Access Service Lines: 21 Message-ID: <49porh$pfh@ram2.ramlink.net> References: <49mslk$g7o@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> <49o782$51@castle.nando.net> Reply-To: subich@ramlink.net (Joe Subich) NNTP-Posting-Host: hun25.ramlink.net X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <49o782$51@castle.nando.net>, Dave Hockaday writes: > >PLease post this, if you get it, Jeff. I'd love to subscribe, too. > The Topband reflector is: topband@frontier.net Administrative traffic (subscription, etc.) should go to: topband-request@frontier.net To subscribe send an e-mail message containing the single line "subscribe" in the text to "topband-request@frontier.net." Further information is available by sending an e-mail message containing the single line "info" to the same address. ... Joe Subich, AD8I (subich@ramlink.net) From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:22 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!news3.noc.netcom.net!zdc!zippo!usenet From: Dave Hayes Subject: Re: NEC 4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: usenet@news.zippo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nntp-Posting-Host: pm-lo-36.terminus.com Organization: Zippo Message-ID: <30C08ECA.47ED@seldon.terminus.com> References: <48qc76$h0j@trog.dra.hmg.gb> <49fuiq$ij$2@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:37:14 GMT Lines: 1 NEC4PC is available from several FTP sites. From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.nic.surfnet.nl!news.sara.nl!news.pi.net!news From: assault@pi-user.pi.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Programmmm CODE30 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 95 23:24:00 PDT Organization: Planet Internet Lines: 8 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: arn27.pi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage Can somebody help me to get the program CODE30 assault@pi.net Thanks...... From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:28 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.Edu.TW!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!serv.HiNet.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.midplains.net!gw2.att.com!pacbell.com!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: lelanda@ATCON.COM (Leland Anderson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (no subject) Date: 8 Dec 95 05:16:42 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512080118.VAA31011@loki.atcon.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu add ham-ant From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mv!barney.gvi.net!news.netrail.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bctel.net!news.island.net!ham!rs From: rs@ham.island.net (Robert Smits) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 160 meter delta loop Message-ID: <120495103858Rnf0.79b6@ham.island.net> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 10:38:00 PST References: <30BFFD4F.32E1@enter.net> Reply-To: rs@ham.island.net Distribution: world Organization: The Curmudgeon's Cottage X-Newsreader: Rnf 0.79b6 Lines: 55 Ken Florence writes: >I can't find much abt this. Can anyone give me the details on a 160 mtr >delta loop? Use the same formula as for any full wave loop - for the length of the antenna in feet, use 1005/f(MHz) - so that, for example, a loop at 1.830 MHz you make a loop 1005/1.830 = 549.18 feet. >Can it be shaped like an upside down triangle? Yes, it can. >How high should it be. Well, if you use a delta loop with equal sides, each side will be 183 feet or so long, and simple trig tells us that makes the height about 158 feet. Add a few feet to keep the antenna out of people contact and you need supports at about 160-165 feet. Most of us have real difficulty getting antenna supports over a hundred feet and flatten the antenna out a bit - for example if you make the top 210 feet long, each of the remaining sides is only about 170 feet long and you only need supports at 140 feet or so. Increase the length of the top still further to 250 feet, and the height required is only about 90 feet (the antenna itself only needs 82 feet). >Where do I feed it? I suggest that if you are looking for long range communications you feed it at one of the upper corners for the lowest radiation angle. Feeding this at the bottom will change the radiation angle from 20 degrees to about 47 degrees, assuming equal length arms of the delta loop. John Heys, G3BDQ, suggests in his fine book, Practical Wire Antennas, that the feed line should NOT drop down vertically beside the antenna, as that will unbalance the system and detune the antenna. >Do I need a matching network? No. A equilateral delta loop has an impedance of about 70 ohms, which rises to about 100 ohms as the antenna is "flattened" by lengthening the top and shortening the sides. I've had good success using an electrical quarter wave of RG-11 to connect to the delta loop, and then using RG-213 to connect to the transmitter. This does make it, though, a single band antenna. >Any info >is appreciated. My experience with delta loops has been mostly on 80 metres, where I found the delta loop to perform well and be quite low noise in comparison to a dipole or vertical. You may also want to look at horizontal loops in delta or quad configurations. -- rs@ham.island.net From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.wco.com!news From: elewis@dsp.com (Edward Lewis) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 440 yagi mounting Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 23:56:08 GMT Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4a059a$3od@news.wco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.4.121.242 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I have a 440 mhz yagi yhat I would like to mount about 2 feet below a cushcraft AR-6 vertical. Whould this affect the performance of either antenna? thank you. Ed KE6KEP From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet From: Danie Brynard Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 6m yagi in arrl handbook verification Date: 3 Dec 1995 21:10:43 GMT Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change Lines: 16 Message-ID: <49t3oj$smi@hawk.pix.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: net-1.pta.pix.za Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) I want to build a 3element Yagi for the 6m band. I have been attempting to simulate the 6m 3element Yagi antenna design descibed in the 1995 ARRL Amateur radio handbook. (page 20.60) I am using EZNEC. According to my simulation the antenna has only 1.9dB gain ! :-( I think I misunderstand the dimensions given, are the distances given the distances between the elements or rather (which is mostly the case) the distance from the reflector ? Did somebody perhaps do a ELNEC/EZNEC simulation that is OK ? Danie zs6awk From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:32 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!xetron.com!news From: timh@xetron.com (Timothy W. Huster) Subject: Re: a question re a 2 meter mag mount problem Message-ID: Sender: news@xetron.com Nntp-Posting-Host: gate129.xetron.com Organization: Xetron Corporation X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14 References: Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:41:43 GMT Lines: 36 What kind of connector did you put on your mag mount??? If it was a bnc on the radio end of the cable, chances are that the connector failed when you pulled the coax/connector off the Handheld. Why did you have to put a connector on the 2 meter in the first place?? What happened to the original connector? Did it fail, because of being removed from the radio. Maybe this connector suffers the same affliction as its predeccessor!! In article , bap@storm.atms.purdue.edu says... > >I have a strange problem. I put a new connector on my 2 meter >mag mount and it tested fine Saturday afternoon. This morning >the antenna was NOT working. I know all esle was ok because >I could get out with my rubber duck ok, all else being equal. > >The vehicle was outside overnight and we had a heavy frost with >22 degrees. > >1. Could the frost have done something? >2. Could the cold have "shrunk" the radiator just enough to break contact? > > >BRET A. PENNINGTON / COMPUTER TECHNICIAN /EARTH AND ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCES >CIVL 4252 317-494-0678 / PURDUE UNIVERSITY / WEST LAFAYETTE, INDIANA 47907 >bap@storm.atms.purdue.edu / speaking only for myself. >/\/\/\/\/\/ __... /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ N9ZFF /\/\/\/\/\/ ...__ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > -- Timothy W. Huster husterty@ucunix.san.uc.edu kb8bnk@kc8tw.#cin.oh.usa.na "Dad! Mom's truck just ran your little car over!" Andrew H. age 3 From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!reeve.research.aa.wl.com!decwrl!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!storm.atms.purdue.edu!bap From: BRETSKI Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: a question re a 2 meter mag mount problem Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:55:01 -0500 Organization: Purdue University Lines: 17 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.atms.purdue.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have a strange problem. I put a new connector on my 2 meter mag mount and it tested fine Saturday afternoon. This morning the antenna was NOT working. I know all esle was ok because I could get out with my rubber duck ok, all else being equal. The vehicle was outside overnight and we had a heavy frost with 22 degrees. 1. Could the frost have done something? 2. Could the cold have "shrunk" the radiator just enough to break contact? BRET A. PENNINGTON / COMPUTER TECHNICIAN /EARTH AND ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCES CIVL 4252 317-494-0678 / PURDUE UNIVERSITY / WEST LAFAYETTE, INDIANA 47907 bap@storm.atms.purdue.edu / speaking only for myself. /\/\/\/\/\/ __... /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ N9ZFF /\/\/\/\/\/ ...__ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:35 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!news.tamu.edu!news From: mluther@tamu.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought Date: 5 Dec 1995 06:20:55 GMT Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX Lines: 60 Message-ID: <4a0oc7$ovk@news.tamu.edu> References: <49j4l1$4f4@sally.dma.org> <49n2bd$kfu@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: mluther@tamu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.194.44.211 X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <49n2bd$kfu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) writes: >Hi Mike, > >In article , >mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (Mike, KN6IS) writes: > >>Tom, Russ, Just how high do the radials need to be above the ground. >>Will 4" be as good as 12'?? >> >>-- >>Mike, KN6IS > >I'm positive of one thing, if only a few radials are used the ans is no. >Efficiency increases with height above ground. As the number and length of >radials increases, the height becomes less critical. > >There is a shortage of measured data, >By the way, I am searching desperately for **measured** data to verify NEC >models close to a lossy media......it amazes me there isn't any, just >computer models verified by other computer models. If anyone has any, >please let me know. > >73 Tom Tom, I've got both types of arrays in service in practice. My 40 meter 4 square is elevated with the radials at 9 feet high. My 80 meter 4 square is on the ground. I am positive of one thing after hard gotten experience. Where the tips of the elements are below the tree line and other things that can take the lightning hits, elevated stuff is fine. However, regardless of how much less the work is for the ground mounted stuff, when the tips of the elements start getting up there, the hit loss mounts BIG TIME. The really clincher for me to go to the ground when I put up the 80 meter one that was on the basis of the nice experience I got with the 40 meter one, was that I just could not afford to take the step voltage into the shack from the elevated feed point if the tall one took a direct hit. I've been using all shunt fed totally grounded mast stuff for years now. The entire arrays are all solid DC grounded and gamma match fed for all of the elements. All the radials are bonded to the poles, even in the fully elevated 40 meter unit. It all works VERY well and tunes up VERY nicely. However, I am in tornado alley down here in Texas. We take MANY hits and near hits all the time, even in the commercial BC biz here. I found out that in order to sink the hits and surges on even the elevated unit, I still had to go on and carry the discahrge to ground under it anyway to keep it off the feed lines and out of the phase box upstairs. Thus, if I had to put in the entire ground grid under the fool thing anyway to sink the lightning, I was just wasting my time fooling myself that 4 radials upstairs was as good or good enought to keep up with say 16 decent ones on the ground. When time came to put up the 80 meter array, all four Rohn 25G towers went in a yard apiece. They are all bonded to the discharge radials. That is the same thing as my RF radial network too, of course. All of the towers are shunt fed and it keeps the lightning OUT of the shack! Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tame.edu From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.micron.net!cs016p10.boi.micron.net!user From: alster@micron.net (Russ Ellsworth) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:54:48 -0700 Organization: Alster Communications Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <49ponv$i65@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs016p10.boi.micron.net ...snip > > I totally agree with your point. The best that can be done is the best > that can be done. But isn't discussing theory and building things fun? > IMO, understanding how something really works is the most satisfying!!!!! > I do enjoy discussing both the theoretical as well as the practical. When I hear about or see what some Ham has achieved with necessary time/space/money I am amazed but what some achieve without some of those assets is truly wondrous!! > > Ahhh, that's my interest. All the elevated data is based on NEC models > alone. I can't find a single real world verification by actual field > strength. Stuff like this keeps me from stealing hubcaps for a living! > 73 Tom Now you are really getting interesting. I too have not seen much in the way of real info. A friend of mine modeled my system and sent me the results. EZNEC says the system is too good to be true. I should be working the antipodes on 75 meters every morning with 599 each way at a bare minimum. The real world is something less than that...a whole lot less. If you do find any real info on elevated radials I am very interested in the subject...Nice to meet another screwball antenna nut, Tom...73..Russ From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought Date: 6 Dec 1995 09:47:08 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 49 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4a4adc$ngc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4a0oc7$ovk@news.tamu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article , mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (Mike, KN6IS) writes: > >Tom, what if I am using a multiband vertical (Cushcraft AP8A) with four >1/4 wl radials for each of the eight bands, do I need to elevate all 32 >radials from the ground or are there some benifits from the other radials, >even though they are not a 1/4 wl for a specific band? Or another way to >say it is the 30 to 10 meter radials helping my radials on 75 meters? > >-- >Mike, KN6IS I'm sure it all helps Mike, even though not as much as a full size radial. I see no reason to use a 40 meter radial group, and then add a shorter 15 meter group. The 40 meter group would work well on 15. I've had some experience with multi-band system with counterpoises using 6 or 8 single length radials cut for the lowest band. The problem that cropped up was when the radials were resonant in a mode that presented a high impedance (i.e. 1/2 wl long, 1 wl long, etc.) at the common point. That problem was cured by adding tie wires from radial to radial at a few points out from the base. It looked like a spider web, hi. Mike wrote: >When time came to put up the 80 meter array, all four Rohn 25G towers >went in a yard apiece. They are all bonded to the discharge radials. That is >the same thing as my RF radial network too, of course. All of the towers are >shunt fed and it keeps the lightning OUT of the shack! >Mike W5WQN That is a big concern at WVNJ with it's elevated system. The firm looking at the system claims "RF is everywhere". They are fearful of lightning damage, since there is no real earthing system. Anyway, the elevated radials are being pulled out and a conventional system installed. We'll see exactly what FS tests show in a month or so, and the system will be lightning safe in the future. I'm suprised by the number of Ham antennas with feedlines leaving the tower up above the earth level and coming into the shack, or worse yet guy lines or towers bracketed to a dwelling! God must truly love some of these people, or they would be gone after the first thunderstorm. ;-) 73 Tom From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:38 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials so˙˙˙˙˙ Message-ID: <8B63449.02CF0000A0.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 95 18:17:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: <49j4l1$4f4@sally.dma.org> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 17 SM> Really, 5 to 7 dB is an awful lot to give up. I certainly wouldn't SM> want a -7 dB efficiency on my transmit/receive capability, nor the SM> power I purchase from the utility company. Also, a 5 to 7 dB SM> difference is not 'justified', it is poor agreement between model SM> and measurement and unacceptable by professional standards. On receive it doesn't matter much; you have only to look at your S meter to prove that. A signal going from, e.g. s9 to s8 or s7 isn't going to take it below readability. But on transmit, especially in a dx pileup you will have that 5 to 7 db loss proved to you very quickly while everybody else but you gets answered. In the HF bands, do some serious DX-ing if you want to find out how good your antenna is. ;-) --k2bt * RM 1.3 02583 * Radio operators do it with frequency. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech2!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!gpu1!rsemenof From: rsemenof@gpu1.srv.ualberta.ca (Raymond Semenoff) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: AEA SWR-121V/U Problems anyone? Date: 7 Dec 1995 21:08:46 GMT Organization: University of Alberta Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4a7l4u$bfk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: gpu1.srv.ualberta.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Hello All! My AEA SWR121V/U antenna analyzer has developed a strange problem. It's frequency readout is correct but the SWR and RL readings are out to lunch! I've gone through the bridge setup procedure, etc. and can't resolve the problem. I've gone to AEA's tech support and they seem to be asleep (or out to a VERY long lunch). Has anyone had similar problems? If so, what was the solution? Thanks in advance! 73, Ray VE6RHS -- ==================================================================== Raymond H. Semenoff | Amateur radio call sign VE6RHS Chief Engineer (and bottle washer) | CJSR 88.5 FM | rsemenof@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca University of Alberta | Compu$erve: 73637,341 Edmonton, Alberta | Amateur Packet Radio: CANADA | VE6RHS@VE6MC.#EDM.AB.CAN.NOAM ------------------------------------------------------------------- "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." - Ken Olson, President, Chairman, and Founder of DEC, 1977. ==================================================================== From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet From: mbarts@vt.edu (Michael Barts) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna Design Liturature Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 17:52:48 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4a6o2o$3m7@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <4a5cdp$8o1@natasha.rmii.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mbarts.bevb.blacksburg.va.us X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 sibert@vader (Steve J. Sibert) wrote: >Can anyone direct me to the best books on Antenna theory >and design? Best books? That's a subjective call but I'll put in a plug for my boss's book Antenna Theory and Design Stutzman and Thiele Good coverage of basic antenna theory with a good survey of antennas. Also, for a wide breath of antenna topics consider Antenna Engineering Handbook Jasik (or Johnson and Jasik, depending on edition) One of the 'bibles" of antenna engineering but a bit pricey (~$120) Mike KB4NT mbarts@vt.edu Michael Barts mbarts@vt.edu Amateur Radio: KB4NT From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!ucsnews!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!vader!sibert From: sibert@vader (Steve J. Sibert) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Design Liturature Date: 7 Dec 1995 00:27:37 GMT Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet Inc. Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4a5cdp$8o1@natasha.rmii.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vader.dsai.com Can anyone direct me to the best books on Antenna theory and design? Thanks in advance! Steve Sibert sibert@dsai.com -- Steve J. Sibert From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:42 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!news.uoregon.edu!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newsfeed.cit.cornell.edu!cornellcs!rochester!news.csug.rochester.edu!rit!sunsrvr6!jdc From: jdc@cci.com (James D. Cronin) Subject: Re: Antenna for TV channel 28 Message-ID: Sender: root@sunsrvr6.cci.com (Operator) Organization: Northern Telecom, Network Application Systems References: <49po4b$577@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:02:35 GMT Lines: 24 In article <49po4b$577@nntp4.u.washington.edu>, Nina West wrote: >I hope that this is not too far off-topic. >I wouldlike to build a simple, but effective antenna for TV channel 28. >This is a frequency of 554 to 560 mHz. (wavelength = 21.2 inches) >... >The antenna would be located just under the eaves of the house with >about 15 feet of coax to the TV. At present I use a loop taped to the >window with about 5 feet of coax. I receive 4,5,7,9,11,13,22, quite >well, but 28 is snowy. >Thanks for your help. How far away is channel 28? Any decent outdoor antenna should beat a loop of wire on the window. Check out Radio Shack; they are regularly vilified by hams, but the antennas aren't too bad. Rolling your own antenna can be fun. Helicals have the broadest bandwidth and are easy to build. Quads are broadband enough for a receive application and easy to build. Yagis can be fussy, especially at higher frequences. Best bet is to build an antenna of some type, try it out, and go from there. You never know until you try... 73..Jim N2VNO From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: lscotth@aol.com (LScottH) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna for TV channel 28 Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:10:42 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 24 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4a0go2$5tg@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <49po4b$577@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi: Assuming you've got separate inputs for UHF and VHF I've got an odd, but effective antenna for you. It's called the Hentenna. It's from a Japanese ham where hen means funny. Basic design is as follows: 1/2 wave high by 1/6 wave wide rectangle of wire. Divide the 1/2 wave length by 4.28, attach the feed across the hentenna this far up from the bottom, feed at the center like a dipole. __________ l l l l l l l l l l l l l------- -------l l l l l ----------------- You may want to shoot for a frequency half way between channel 22 and 28, this is a broadband antenna. I use one for UHF reception, you'll be surprised at the performance. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:44 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!delta.misha.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!condor.ic.net!news.cic.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!iglou!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <48veer$kg2@news.tamu.edu> <818148838.12251@pinetree.microserve.com> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:50:30 GMT Lines: 6 Beware of antennas in trees. I had a trap vertical with 1/4 wave ground plane wire elements. The voltage at the ends of the radials while running a kw were high enough to arc arcross a 2" insulator and melt the nylon rope which supported it. You could set your favorite tree on fire! -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:46 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.PBI.net!agis!news3.noc.netcom.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!intac!usenet From: bjones@intac.com (Bill Jones) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Apartment "Stealth" Solved! Date: 4 Dec 1995 02:12:37 GMT Organization: INTAC Access Corporation - An Internet Service Provider Lines: 54 Message-ID: <49tlel$r7k@uucp.intac.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: wfld-s9.intac.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 I recently set up a "stealth" shack in my Brownstone. The antenna setup was a long wire draped out the window and up over the roof - about 100 feet. But I also used a "smart" tuner device, one that I am surprised has not received more attention because it worked so well. It is the Match-All from Terramar Systems. It cost me $99. The price shortly went up from their, but it seems well worth it to me. I get a near flat SWR, decent receive and transmit reports. In article , j38@clark.net says... > >Some of us have been trying to help a handicapped (blind) ham with his >antenna for the past two years, but we've had very little success since >he's one of those unfortunate folks who lives in a high-rise apartment >with a no antenna policy. We've tried dangling wires, loops, mobile whip >dipoles, and lots of other things, but not until this past week did we >find something that worked well. > >His Kenwood TS-440 had a built in tuner, but not surprisingly, it didn't >help, so on advice from a couple of local folks, he bought a SGC SG-230 >"Smartuner". We connected it to a 50 or so foot random length wire >running out of one window and pulled around the corner of the building to >another and fed with a single wire connected at about the midpoint. We >used the apartment's hot water heating system as a counterpoise. Well, >he's now getting out with respectable signal reports on all bands down to >160 meters. > >If you're not familiar with this tuner, it doesn't use an external control >circuit, but instead senses the RF and tunes on that. You just QSY and >start talking/keying the rig. It performs as advertised and really does >tune an antenna in two seconds, and much quicker if the frequency happens >to have been one of 500 stored previously in it's memory. > >I looked at the schematic briefly and (from memory) it is essentially a >pi-type antenna tuner a la the ARRL Handbook's "Ultimate Transmatch" that >uses a microprocessor to control relays to switch inductors and capacitors >in and out. It seems I recall the inductor values as being .25, .5, 1, 2, >4, 8, 16, and 32 uh. The capacitors are a similar binary scheme, but I >can't recall for sure how it was set up. > >I don't know why I haven't heard more about these before now. Maybe it's >because they're relatively expensive and go for about $450-500, but from >what I've seen, it seems to be well worth the money, particularly in an >application like this. > >73, >Tony >K4KYO >J38@clark.net > > > From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Apartment "Stealth" Solved! Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 19:40:04 GMT Lines: 13 Message-ID: <818149483.12251@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <49tlel$r7k@uucp.intac.com> <49u21n$m1m@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote: >One way to decrease the SWR is to increase the losses. That's what >these "magic" devices do. But $99 for a resistor seems a little >excessive. Reminds me of when I was a novice and a couple of us made a potato antenna. It probably didn't work quite as well as a resistor, but it didn't cost $99.00 either. ;) 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: balanced antenna tuner(s) Date: 5 Dec 1995 21:50:28 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 6 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4a2er4$rmb@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com Has anybody ever tried taking two identical antenna tuners and using one for one side of a balanced transmission line and using the other tuner for the other side of the transmission line? One possible schematic for my balanced antenna tuner looks like two pi-network coaxial tuners. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: balanced tuners Date: 7 Dec 1995 20:24:46 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4a7iie$a6v@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu Cecil wrote: Has anybody ever tried taking two identical antenna tuners and using one for one side of a balanced transmission line and using the other tuner for the other side of the transmission line? One possible schematic for my balanced antenna tuner looks like two pi-network coaxial tuners. Sounds reasonable if feed each tuner from opposite endfs of a balun but might be a bear to tune unless line is free of common mode currents and tuners are kekpt i/// kept in track either visually or by coupling . Perhaps an ammeter in each line could be a n addtional complexity that would indicate proper tracking. Charlie, W7XC -- From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: Daniel Calzaretta Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Baluns Date: 7 Dec 1995 01:30:04 GMT Organization: Pacific Crest Community School Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4a5g2s$69h@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx05-39.teleport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) This may sound like a dumb question, but what are baluns used for? Someone told me that he used one for the coax feed on an inverted vee. Thanks, Dan From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!bcm.tmc.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!wizard.pn.com!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Baluns Date: 7 Dec 1995 18:21:27 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4a7bb7$lr2@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <4a5g2s$69h@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article <4a5g2s$69h@maureen.teleport.com>, Daniel Calzaretta wrote: >This may sound like a dumb question, but what are baluns used for? >Someone told me that he used one for the coax feed on an inverted vee. Hi Dan, "balun" stands for balanced-to-unbalanced transformation. An inverted vee is a balanced dipole which performs better with a balanced feed line. Coax is an unbalanced feed line. So in this case, the balun performs a 50 ohm balanced antenna to 50 ohm unbalanced transmission line transformation. A balun can also perform an impedance transformation as in a 300 ohm balanced folded dipole to 75 ohm coax transformation which is a 4:1 balun. There are generally two types of baluns - a "voltage" type which delivers balanced voltages and a "current" type which delivers balanced currents. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:51 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!lince.lander.es!news From: jagon@lander.es (Jose Antonio Gonzalez) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Cushcraft R-7 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 09:53:48 GMT Organization: Lander Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <49rs6q$vd0@lince.lander.es> Reply-To: jtpjatae@bi.ehu.es NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp001.lander.es X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Hello! I am looking for expertise about the best installation for a Cushcraft R-7, I would like know you experience. Please any comment via e-mail to jtpjatae@bi.ehu.es Many tahnks in advance. Best 73 -- _________________________________________________________________________ Jose Antonio Gonzalez Lorenzo -- jagon@lander.es -- Amateur Radio: EA2BSN ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: directional couplers Date: 7 Dec 1995 03:54:01 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4a5ogp$124b@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com Help - stupid question - When the voltage from a voltage divider is vectorally added to the voltage from the toroidal pickup, is the resultant vector proportional to power or voltage? If "A" is the angle between the voltage and the current, it appears that the resultant vector sum is: K1*volts*cos(A/2)+K2*current*cos(A/2) When the voltage and current are in phase, they each contribute half the reading. When they are 180 deg out of phase, they cancel each other. How does one calculate SWR knowing the forward vector sum voltage and the reverse vector sum voltage? SWR = (Vf+Vr)/(Vf-Vr) ??? thanks and 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:53 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: directional couplers Date: 7 Dec 1995 15:49:10 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4a72dm$lqi@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <4a5ogp$124b@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de In article <4a5ogp$124b@chnews.ch.intel.com>, Cecil A. Moore~ wrote: >Help - stupid question - When the voltage from a voltage >divider is vectorally added to the voltage from the toroidal >pickup, is the resultant vector proportional to power or >voltage? For the foreward wave V and I are in phase. So the voltage from the curent pickup (foreward side) can simply be added to the voltage sample, and the sum is proportional to the *voltage* or *currnt* of the forward traveling wave. (Both being related to another by 50 Ohms) Contributions from a backward travelling wave are 180 degree out of phase and will cancel. --> it is the result of how the two directions "foreward" and "backward" are defined, that the foreward wave travels with current and voltage in phase and the backward wave with I and V 180 degree out of phase. 73, Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: krin135@aol.com (Krin135) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Field day antenna Date: 4 Dec 1995 06:02:06 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 30 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <49ukfe$dos@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <49clnp$1c8l@ns3-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader While at the last HamFest in West Monroe, LA (Second Sat in November, mark your calender and join the Twin City Ham Club next year!), I picked up an "Incredi Bull" 1/8 wave (19" radiator) ground plane for use with my 2 m rigs. Had a chance to put it up today. Had some problems with it at first, as the SO239 is in the base of the sucker, and it is designed to use a set screw to sit on top of a pole. Spent some time finagling through my junk box, when I happened on some PVC odds and ends. A 3/4 sched 40 PVC coupler fits nicely up inside the base of the antenna, with room to spare for the connection. This fits snugly down into the tail piece of a 1 1/4" sink "Tee" connector, which in turn will attach to a standard 5' or 10' antenna mast with the one of the standard compression ring adaptors that come with the piece. Here's the trick- a PL 259 will not fit through the baffle on the side arm of the "Tee" connector- either you will have to cut away the baffle, or thread your coax through and then attach the 259. Either way will work- I used the second, as I was making this cable on site, and did not have a long enough bit for my Dremel. I will be using this rig for Field Day type activities, as well as when in emergency service. The "Incredi Bull" antenna did nicely at a 10' height, allowing me to get through to the WB5SOT repeater in Monroe, about 30 miles from my home QTH here in Mangham, LA. Signal report was good readability, with mild to moderate hiss. As I was running about 3-5 W out of my HTX 202 and the 9 volt battery pack, I thought that I was doing fairly well, especially with all of the 90' oak trees that are between my location and the repeater. Hope that this helps some one! 73, de KC5EVN, Doc From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:55 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!usenet From: dbwillia@uci.edu (Brian Williams) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Field day antenna Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:33:51 GMT Organization: UCI Medical Center Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4a00gv$dcg@news.service.uci.edu> References: <49clnp$1c8l@ns3-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> <49ukfe$dos@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin9053.slip.uci.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In article <49ukfe$dos@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, krin135@aol.com says... >I picked up an "Incredi Bull" 1/8 wave (19" radiator) ground plane for >use with my 2m rigs. Had a chance to put it up today. Had some >problems with it at first, as the SO239 is in the base of the sucker, >and it is designed to use a set screw to sit on top of a pole. Spent >some time finagling through my junk box, when I happened on some PVC >odds and ends. CUT HERE 19" Radiator is 1/4 wave on 2 meters. Is this antenna available in any ham stores? Does is use radials? What's the cost? Does it appear to be built ruggedly? From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:56 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.mailorder.com!news.avatar.com!avatar.avatar.com!kory From: Kory Hamzeh Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gap Titan Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 21:59:34 -0800 Organization: Avatar Consultants, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <49p2oj$mro@midland.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: avatar.avatar.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <49p2oj$mro@midland.co.nz> On 2 Dec 1995, John wrote: > This antenna is designed for the SSB sections of each band and the > manufacturer gives no tuning info. Has anyone tried tweaking the tuner > rods etc. to bring it down to the CW frequencies? Any details much > appreciated. ZL1AH . I just ordered this antenna. I haven't received it yet, but my understanding it that you get full band coverage on all bands except 80m, which you need to tune to. Kory KE6VWO From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!waikato!midland.co.nz!usenet From: John Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gap Titan Date: 8 Dec 1995 09:01:55 GMT Organization: Midland Internet Limited, Network Services Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4a8uu4$nmm@midland.co.nz> References: <49p2oj$mro@midland.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: johnw.enternet.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Kory, KE6VWO. Yes, the antenna will work on any frequency in the bands for which it is designed but my rig is not very welcoming towards an SWR of 2:1. My antenna has lowest SWR on 14250 and 21350 which is not what I want as I work exclusively on CW. I was hoping maybe someone had played with the tuner rods to vary resonant frequencies. ZL1AH . From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.agt.net!news From: smason@agt.net (Steve Mason) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.noncomm,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio Subject: Re: Hams please read .... Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:36:07 GMT Organization: AGT Ltd. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4a00l7$5r5@news.agt.net> References: <492ab0$jfm@alterdial.UU.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: clgrpt01-port-18.agt.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17456 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:12933 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22035 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11854 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95082 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32112 rec.radio.amateur.space:5857 rec.radio.cb:24784 rec.radio.noncomm:5033 rec.radio.scanner:41464 In article , croaker@access.digex.netđ says... >Internet lore: the term was derived from the Monty Python skit, were 'spam' >was said/sung numerous times. It was a really funny skit, too. Bloody Vikings!! I guess Nye Vikings to get back on topic... Steve From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!usenet From: donb@Direct.CA (Don Boekenkruger) Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: http://www.burnabyradio.com/ham/brc.html Date: 6 Dec 1995 06:51:18 GMT Organization: Internet Direct Inc. Lines: 36 Message-ID: <4a3eh6$9p1@grid.direct.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.174.244.165 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 Hello to all who read this message. I am letting you all know that the Burnaby Radio communications WWW page is now running stable, you should be able to check it out at any time. Some of you had problems before accessing our WWW page, but that problem should be over now. We have changed servers so our WWW Page should work all the time now. The page is at "http://www.burnabyradio.com/ham/brc.html" We are: Burnaby Radio Communications Ltd. 4257 E. Hastings Street Burnaby, B.C. Canada V5C 2J5 Phone: (604)298-5444 Fax: (604)298-5455 BBS: (604)298-3283 WWW: http://www.burnabyradio.com/ham/brc.html Please visit us!!! And please fill out our form, and you will receive our latest price list. Thanks. Don Boekenkruger ve7cbt@intergate.bc.ca From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nwnews.wa.com!news.halcyon.com!usenet From: "Gary P. Fiber" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ICOM 706 Date: 4 Dec 1995 13:20:05 GMT Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 8 Message-ID: <49usi5$bll@news.halcyon.com> References: <1995Dec1.110533.1@evax01.d51.lilly.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blv-pm2-ip20.halcyon.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) The IC-706 does have a CTCSS tone encoder built into the radio, how ever it comes with the HM-103 mic which does NOT have DTMF tones. If you reqiore DTMF then you purchase a HM-77 mic and run the compressor in FM as to get the DTMF level jigh enough to operate the repeater, or remove the backof the mic and adjust the DTMF level. Gary From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.netline.net!usenet From: burch@netline.net (The Metal Head) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ICOM 706 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:03:46 GMT Organization: Netline Communications, Inc. Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4a1qdn$iu7@tesla.netline.net> References: <1995Dec1.110533.1@evax01.d51.lilly.com> <49usi5$bll@news.halcyon.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: srq06.netline.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Does the ICOM 706 have any Satallite features? KE4ZQV burch@netline.net From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:01 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.eznet.net!news.enterprise.net!btnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!iglou!iglou2!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou2.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: ICOM 706 X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2.iglou.com Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <1995Dec1.110533.1@evax01.d51.lilly.com> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:04:50 GMT Lines: 17 I have a 706 and sure didn't know it had touch tones! No buttons makes it kinda hard to dial! WHere are they???/ : GARRY : Both issues have been addressed in the equipment newsgroup, which has had a ton : of postings regarding the 706. Yes to both questions (my 706 is on backorder). : There are also some good summaries of the 706 floating around on the Internet : pages... use a good search engine to find them. : Mel KJ9C -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:02 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.Edu.TW!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!serv.HiNet.net!news.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!sparky!nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us!usenet From: mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us (Gary McDuffie, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ICOM 706 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 04:30:36 GMT Organization: AG0N's Radio Ranch Lines: 23 Message-ID: <30c4f8b0.39133732@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us> References: <1995Dec1.110533.1@evax01.d51.lilly.com> <49usi5$bll@news.halcyon.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.206.239.244 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 I don't have, have never seen a 706. However, let's use a little common sense here. On 4 Dec 1995 13:20:05 GMT, "Gary P. Fiber" wrote: > The IC-706 does have a CTCSS tone encoder built into the radio, how ever it > comes with the HM-103 mic which does NOT have DTMF tones. If you reqiore > DTMF then you purchase a HM-77 mic and run the compressor in FM as to get > the DTMF level jigh enough to operate the repeater, or remove the backof > the mic and adjust the DTMF level. If you adjust the level in the microphone, the encoder is IN THE MICROPHONE! It is highly unlikely they would have the encoder in the radio and then run 8 wires just for the pad to the radio. That hasn't been done since Galena! You would also have to run at least 2 wires from the pot to control the level. C'mon, folks, THIMK! By the way, let's take this to the right newsgroup. Please? __ _ __ __ / _ _ _ __ /_| / _ / )/| ) (__)(// (/ ( |(__)(__// |/ / mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:03 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!afn17891 From: "Thomas W. Castle" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ICOM 706 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 03:12:19 -0500 Lines: 36 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.afn.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: afn17891@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu In-Reply-To: <30c4f8b0.39133732@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us> On Wed, 6 Dec 1995 mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us wrote: > I don't have, have never seen a 706. However, let's use a little common sense > here. > On 4 Dec 1995 13:20:05 GMT, "Gary P. Fiber" wrote: > > The IC-706 does have a CTCSS tone encoder built into the radio, how ever it > > comes with the HM-103 mic which does NOT have DTMF tones. If you reqiore > > DTMF then you purchase a HM-77 mic and run the compressor in FM as to get > > the DTMF level jigh enough to operate the repeater, or remove the backof > > the mic and adjust the DTMF level. > If you adjust the level in the microphone, the encoder is IN THE MICROPHONE! > It is highly unlikely they would have the encoder in the radio and then run 8 > wires just for the pad to the radio. That hasn't been done since Galena! You > would also have to run at least 2 wires from the pot to control the level. > C'mon, folks, THIMK! > By the way, let's take this to the right newsgroup. Please? Start thinking is a good starting point, I know after you wrote your reply; it probably dawned on you... CTCSS AN DTMF are "NOT" the same.... Yes the CTCSS board is built into the radio; so you can program it via the CPU It is the same method used in normal 2 mtr radios... Yes the DTMF chip can be in the mic, where 8v, gnd, up, down, ptt, Audio and other leads terminate. Yes you also adjust the DTMF level inside the mic... The message may be in the wrong group; but at least it is in the right prospective... Better luck next time. De Tom KD4QHH. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:05 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!iglou!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: ICOM 706 X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <1995Dec1.110533.1@evax01.d51.lilly.com> <49usi5$bll@news.halcyon.com> <4a1qdn$iu7@tesla.netline.net> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:45:22 GMT Lines: 14 Yes Metal Head but it requires a Saturn 5 to get it in orbit. The Metal Head (burch@netline.net) wrote: : Does the ICOM 706 have any Satallite features? : KE4ZQV : burch@netline.net -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cioeserv.cioe.com!alpha.comsource.net!snow.snowhill.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.unb.ca!scratchy.mi.net!fougereg From: fougereg@mi.net (fougereg) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: INFO WANTED Date: Wed, 06 Dec 95 20:28:15 GMT Organization: MIS Saint John Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4a4ucv$78s_001@fougereg.mi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fougereg.mi.net To: ALL X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 I need information on how to build a four element beam antenna! Geoff _____________________________________________________ Geoff Fougere Email fougereg@mi.net _____________________________________________________ From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!sun4nl!news.euro.net!p028.ztm.euronet.nl!pb0aiu From: pb0aiu@euronet.nl (Peter) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Invisible bevarage? Need experience! Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 08:43:00 Organization: Euronet Internet Lines: 29 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: p028.ztm.euronet.nl Keywords: beverages X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Hi there, At the present moment we are using a 2 wire switchable beverage to NE (Japan) and SW (South America) and a single bevarage to the west (america). There are 3 meter up in the air and work very well!!. The neithbours started complaining about the wires (not on the towers ant verticals( HI HI)). Get some in info on snake antennes and EWE. The EWE is not the right solition to put up. The snake antenne seems to work well at some stations (those have no beverage tested) and other says those antennes don't work. My question: Has ANY one put down the beverage down to the ground (or 1 inch below)? How do they work? What kind of resistor for temination? 73 Peter Pb0aiu Pi4cc http://euronet.nl/users/pb0aiu/homepage.html From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:08 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!usenet From: dbwillia@uci.edu (Brian Williams) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: J-pole antenna: how to prevent coupling to mast support Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:42:08 GMT Organization: UCI Medical Center Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4a010g$dcg@news.service.uci.edu> References: <49vlls$5ic@minox.tripnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin9053.slip.uci.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 In article <49vlls$5ic@minox.tripnet.se>, Ulf.Lange@tripnet.se says... >Does anyone know how to prevent coupling between a J-pole antenna and >the mast tube support? It may distort the antenna radiation pattern. >Will it help to add e.g. a ground plane to the J-pole antenna? >A choke at the coax feeder will stop the coax from radiating, but how >to prevent the mast tube from radiating? >Ulf Ulf, Are you sure the support tube is creating a problem? You stated that "It may distort the antenna radiation pattern". This is true, but if the J is mounted above the mast, the coupling is extremely minimal. If the J is mounted to the side of the mast, the radiation pattern is definately affected. Try to mount the J on a stand-off that is at least a 1/2 wavelength away and that will help greatly. Good Luck, Brian N6ZAU From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:08 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!news1.transpac.net!news2.transpac.net!news.tripnet.se!news From: Ulf.Lange@tripnet.se (Ulf Lange) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: J-pole antenna: how to prevent coupling to mast support Date: 4 Dec 1995 20:28:44 GMT Organization: Tripnet AB Lines: 10 Message-ID: <49vlls$5ic@minox.tripnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: heron4.tripnet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7 Does anyone know how to prevent coupling between a J-pole antenna and the mast tube support? It may distort the antenna radiation pattern. Will it help to add e.g. a ground plane to the J-pole antenna? A choke at the coax feeder will stop the coax from radiating, but how to prevent the mast tube from radiating? Ulf From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:09 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!avalon.chinalake.navy.mil!usenet Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: J-pole antenna: how to prevent coupling to mast support Message-ID: From: Bill Harwood Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:34:14 GMT Sender: usenet@avalon.chinalake.navy.mil (NAWS news admin) References: <49vlls$5ic@minox.tripnet.se> Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: Ulf.Lange@tripnet.se Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-Url: news:49vlls$5ic@minox.tripnet.se Lines: 12 A ground plane is always a good idea for a vertical antenna. Even if one is "not required". It will add effciency of radiation and provide RF decoupling from the feedpoint. When in doubt add a ground plane if practical. \------------------------------------------------------/ \ Bill Harwood U play it, I'll dance it / \ AB6DY or / \ I'll play it, U dance it / \----------------------------------------------/ From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech2!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop From: hamop@aztec.asu.edu (CHARLES J. MICHAELS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Ladder Line Date: 7 Dec 1995 20:15:07 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4a7i0b$a59@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu Cecil wrote: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote: >This leads me to conclude that one doesn't need an antenna tuner >for this type of antenna. One only needs to vary the length of >the transmission line to obtain an SWR of 2:1 or less with a 1:1 >choke balun to ensure current balance. While indeed the impedance seen along an unmatched line will vary with length, the SWR is relatively constant (small reduction with increasing length for relatively low loww/// loss lines). Charlie, W7XC -- From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newshub.cts.com!news1.crl.com!nntp.crl.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ladder Line Date: 8 Dec 1995 15:38:40 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4a9m60$1gr1@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <4a7i0b$a59@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article <4a7i0b$a59@news.asu.edu>, CHARLES J. MICHAELS wrote: > cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote: >>One only needs to vary the length of the transmission line to obtain an SWR >>of 2:1 or less with a 1:1 choke balun to ensure current balance. > > While indeed the impedance seen along an unmatched line will vary >with length, the SWR is relatively constant (small reduction with increasing >length for relatively low loww/// loss lines). Sorry Charlie, that I wasn't clear. I should have said: One only needs to vary the length of the ladder-line to obtain an SWR of 2:1 or less on the 50 ohm SWR meter between the transmitter and the 50 ohm 1:1 choke balun. The SWR on the ladder-line is relatively constant but the 50 ohm SWR seen by the transmitter certainly varies enormously with changes in the length of the ladder-line. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: ladder-line thoughts Date: 4 Dec 1995 06:16:02 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <49u3n2$fin@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com Assume our goal is to keep the SWR seen by the transmitter to less than 2:1, i.e. the impedance between 25 and 100 ohms. If we plot the 300 ohm SWR on the Smith Chart we see we can accomplish this for any ladder-line SWRs between 12:1 and 3:1 These are the ranges of SWRs that we would expect from a multi-band dipole. We can usually trim any non-resonant antenna so that the SWRs fall within these ranges. Note 300/12=25 and 300/3=100. This leads me to conclude that one doesn't need an antenna tuner for this type of antenna. One only needs to vary the length of the transmission line to obtain an SWR of 2:1 or less with a 1:1 choke balun to ensure current balance. The trick is to measure the ladder-line SWR and locate the nearest current or voltage node. Everything else is duck soup. I did it for my 88 ft dipole today on 20m, 17m, and 10m. Worked like a charm. Thoughts? 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts Date: 4 Dec 1995 17:36:40 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <49vbj8$pdq@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <49u3n2$fin@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article <49u3n2$fin@chnews.ch.intel.com>, Cecil A. Moore~ wrote: >Assume our goal is to keep the SWR seen by the transmitter to >less than 2:1, i.e. the impedance between 25 and 100 ohms. One additional thought: If the 300 ohm ladder-line SWR is between 1:1 and 3:1, use a 4:1 balun at a current node for a 50 ohm SWR of less than 2:1 If the 300 ohm ladder-line SWR is between 3:1 and 12:1, use a 1:1 balun at a current node for a 50 ohm SWR of less than 2:1 SWRs above 12:1 are unlikely in the real world unless one likes full-wave centerfed antennas. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts Date: 5 Dec 1995 18:01:28 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 46 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4a21do$18i3@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <49u3n2$fin@chnews.ch.intel.com> <818155712.15631@pinetree.microserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article <818155712.15631@pinetree.microserve.com>, WB3U wrote: >I think Steve Ellington posted something along these lines some time >ago. His suggestion wasn't aimed at eliminating the tuner altogether, >but he proposed using a rolled-up length of ladder line, with taps. Thanks, I couldn't remember who posted that. Seems to me, tapping a rolled-up length of ladder line would create un-predictable stubs on one side of the tap. However, it's the same concept and I admit that I didn't read that posting closely. >Regarding the use of a balun to feed this system, is it safe to >assume that the same feedline length that provides an appropriate >feedpoint impedance will serve to mitigate common mode voltage? No, but it may be safe to assume that common mode currents are neglible. However, it's a good idea to measure common mode currents and it's easy since it can be done by passing the ladder-line through a single toroidal pickup. The majority of hams for a hundred years have assumed that common mode currents are neglible. I was a lot more satisfied with my antennas before I heard about the common mode problem. Thanks a lot, Tom!!! :-) >Maybe the >rolled-up ladder line would have an advantage in this area - it >might act as a choke to parallel voltage. That's an idea. Inductance seen by the parallel currents but not by the differential currents. What would need to be the diameter of the coil and spacing of the conductors for 300 ohm ladder-line? >Also, tuner settings in my ladder-line system change considerably >when it rains. I don't have that problem in Arizona. :-) >Another thing that might cause similar problems is the rise in SWR >that takes place at the band edges. Since the impedance at the band edges is relatively close to the resonant impedance, an antenna tuner used for touch-up should work without too much of a strain on the balun. It's not as if the band edges result in SWR's of 20:1 - more like 3:1 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts Date: 5 Dec 1995 21:13:46 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 17 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4a2cma$tns@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <49u3n2$fin@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article , Steve Ellington wrote: >... I wrapped 35 >feet of this feeder around a wooden frame, spacing it about 1" apart, and >put this in line with my feeder. I was able to tap my coax/1:1 balun >arrangement at various places to locate the low swr point for any band 40 >through 10. Hi Steve, thanks for the info. What was the diameter of the wooden frame? On the unused part of the "coil" did you short it out or let it float as a stub? Seems like one would need to short it out to make things predictable. I'm thinking of a single horizontal loop paralleled about a foot apart and shorted across at the proper point per band. By some strange coincidence my 20m and 10m lowest SWR points are the same. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 21:23:51 GMT Lines: 43 Message-ID: <818155712.15631@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <49u3n2$fin@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote: >This leads me to conclude that one doesn't need an antenna tuner >for this type of antenna. One only needs to vary the length of >the transmission line to obtain an SWR of 2:1 or less with a 1:1 >choke balun to ensure current balance. Hi Cecil, This seems workable, but I have a few comments and questions (just food for thought): I think Steve Ellington posted something along these lines some time ago. His suggestion wasn't aimed at eliminating the tuner altogether, but he proposed using a rolled-up length of ladder line, with taps. Seems like the same concept, just different mechanics. Regarding the use of a balun to feed this system, is it safe to assume that the same feedline length that provides an appropriate feedpoint impedance will serve to mitigate common mode voltage? If not, feedline balance, balun heating, and tuner loss (under actual conditions) would have to be checked on every band before it could be assumed that the system is working correctly. Maybe the rolled-up ladder line would have an advantage in this area - it might act as a choke to parallel voltage. Also, tuner settings in my ladder-line system change considerably when it rains. It would be interesting to know what the actual change is in terms of SWR (on the ladder line) and feedpoint impedance. For a fixed length of line, this might throw the feedpoint impedance into a region the balun can't tolerate. Another thing that might cause similar problems is the rise in SWR that takes place at the band edges. Have you tried this approach on 80M yet? I'm curious what the impedance will be across the band when the feeder is used to tune the system. Hope the preceding doesn't sound too negative. This is all you-know-who's fault though. ;-) 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts Date: 6 Dec 1995 09:48:38 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 8 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4a4ag6$nhc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4a2cma$tns@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader What about a gradually tapering line, that eventually reaches the desired impedance? I used a line that had 600 ohm into 450 ohm into 300 ohm into 225 ohm into 150 ohm into 100 ohm into....well you get the idea! Stick that in your Smith chart and smoke it. 73, Tom From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:19 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!iglou!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <49u3n2$fin@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4a2cma$tns@chnews.ch.intel.com> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:12:18 GMT Lines: 42 Make the frame from two pieces of lumber about 3/4" thick X 2" wide X 24" long. Space these about 2ft apart using two pieces of 3/4 pvc pipe. Nothing is critical here. All we are doing is making a frame big enough to hold the desired amount of wire. ideally, the space between turns of the feeder should equal or exceed the spacing between the idividual wires in the feeder i.e. about 1" for 450 ohm wire. Connect the antenna's feeder on one end and the balun/rig on the other. Cut a hunk of feeder long enough to reach any point on the form and connect it to one end of the coil, it doesn't matter which end. All we are doing is changing the overall distance the rf must travel. Now before you go to all the trouble to do this. Try to make things come out right on the lowest freq. band with no shorting of the feeder. This reduces the number of taps you need to fool with by ONE. If you resonate the whole system for 80 meters, wrap 33ft of feeder around the form. Somewhere along the way, you will find a "ballpark match" for any freq. A tuner usually isn't required but even on tough bands, the auto-tuner in almost rig can clean up the left-overs. SPACE SAVER MODEL Make a box shapped form and reduce the length accordingly. OUTDOOR MODEL Put it outside anywhere along the feeder. AUTOMATIC MODEL Use relays to do your switching. NOTE: Using 300 open line instead of 450 ohm results in less drastic impedance excursion. This makes matching much easier! NOTE:2 If you use BARE wire for the feeder thats wrapped around the form, it sure makes finding taps a lot easier! -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet From: Danie Brynard Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Looking for 23cm yagi design Date: 3 Dec 1995 21:11:26 GMT Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change Lines: 20 Message-ID: <49t3pu$smi@hawk.pix.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: net-1.pta.pix.za Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Hi OM I am looking for the antenna dimensions or alternatively references to literature describing antenna designs for the 23cm band. I am particularly interested in building a yagi antenna with a boom length of between 1 and 2.5m maximum. (a gain of between 10 and 20dB) Any programs for the design of it is also welcome. I can be contacted at: danie.brynard@pixie.co.za zs6awk@zs6ai.tvl.zaf.af Thanking You & 73 Danie zs6awk From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Looking for 23cm yagi design Date: 5 Dec 1995 08:00:39 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4a0u77$uj6@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <49t3pu$smi@hawk.pix.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de >I am looking for the antenna dimensions or alternatively references >to literature describing antenna designs for the 23cm band. A very good description of such antennas was given recently in the DUBUS magazine. Dimensions for several boom length and radiation patterns (NEC-2) were given. It is the transfer of the DL6WU desitgn to 23. 73, Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:21 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!jazz!butch From: butch@maestro.maestro.com (' ALLAN W. BART) Subject: looking for Info on Vlf Active Antenna Design Message-ID: Organization: Maestro Technologies, Inc. X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:52:50 GMT Lines: 7 Hello, I have seen several of the articles out there by Burhans and other authors on the subject that were published in the 80's. Now I wishing to get newer info on the subject. so what do you know of. allan From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:22 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!io.salford.ac.uk!aber!bath.ac.uk!bell.ukonline.co.uk!usenet From: pat.mellors@ukonline.co.uk Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: mobile aerial for hf Date: 6 Dec 1995 16:04:11 GMT Organization: UK Online Lines: 2 Message-ID: <4a4etr$oc4@bell.ukonline.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: turing.ukonline.co.uk I wish to construct a mobile aerial can someone provide a design From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile antennas for Limited Space Date: 4 Dec 1995 12:07:35 GMT Organization: IONet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <49uoa7$b8m@ionews.ionet.net> References: <49i6jp$ndn@chnews.ch.intel.com> <49shlr$idn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: osip25.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: w8jitom@aol.com Hello Tom, A friend of mine is going to mount 3 whips above his coil (one straight up and the other two at about 30 degrees to either side). What do you thing will be the effect of this arrangement on current distubution. Just looking to for ways to overcome the problem of mounting hat high on the antenna on a mobile...73 Hank WA5JRH From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile antennas for Limited Space Date: 4 Dec 1995 12:09:12 GMT Organization: IONet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <49uod8$bcj@ionews.ionet.net> References: <49i6jp$ndn@chnews.ch.intel.com> <49shlr$idn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: osip25.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: w8jitom@aol.com Hello Tom, A friend of mine is going to mount 3 whips above his coil (one straight up and the other two at about 30 degrees to either side). What do you thing will be the effect of this arrangement on current distubution. Just looking to for ways to overcome the problem of mounting hat high on the antenna on a mobile...73 Hank WA5JRH From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile antennas for Limited Space Date: 5 Dec 1995 05:09:24 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 27 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4a15ok$djv@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <49uod8$bcj@ionews.ionet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <49uod8$bcj@ionews.ionet.net>, Hank Blackstock writes: >A friend of mine is going to mount 3 whips above his coil > (one straight up and the other two at about 30 degrees to >either side). What do you thing will be the effect of this >arrangement on current distubution. Hi Hank, I don't really know for sure. It would seem reasonable to expect it would look something between a cone and a whip. A cone is better than a linear conductor (whip), but not as good as a top hat loaded linear conductor. The goal with a short radiator is to have linear current distribution throughout the radiator, and to not increase resistive losses faster than radiation resistance normalized to the same point in the antenna (say the current loop). My puzzlement is exactly where three whips would fall in efficiency. Sounds like a job for a FS meter! The system could be compared to a whip the same height with enough "hat" at the top to resonate on the same frequency with the same coil. 73 Tom From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:26 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.eznet.net!news.enterprise.net!btnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.suba.com!qni.com!gwatts From: Gary Watts Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Modified 160 Antenna - 160-ant.txt (1/1) Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 19:28:49 -0600 Organization: Suba Communications Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: qni.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Jay, It would had been nice just to read your message instead of DECODING IT ! Here it is for others ! ------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, The name here iJay and the QTH is Annville, PA. I would just like to contribute the modifications that I made to my Spiro 160 meter shortend antenna. Since moving into town I didn't have the spce for a full half wave 160 antenna so I put up a Spiro shortened single band 160 meter antenna. This worked fine and being only 100 feet long fit my lot. This antenna has a loading coil,(Spiro calls them shortners), half way out each leg. Wanted to possible improve the perfromance I decided that I had enough room to make half the antenna a full 1/4 wave and let the other side think it wa a 1/4 wave. This worked well and not only broadened the bandwidth but allowed the antenna to be tuned up on the other bands. Previously the only other band that it would tune on was 10 meters, I suspect it was loading the 50 feet between the coils. I work a sched with a friend about 150 miles away and got consistantly better reports than with the shorter antenna. The latest change that i have made is due the fact that I had a lot of extra RG8X coax and wanted to neaten things up a bit i wound a coax balun that just happend to be about 30 feet from the feed point. This is the point where the feedline makes the turn from the fence post to the antenna. That has made another significant improvement in the signal strength. I figure that this 1/16 wavelength of coax going at about a 45 degree angle is now radiating. Being in town with close neighbors I do not run an amp and these signal reports are over a period of several months. 73 de N3DMU  From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:28 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.suba.com!qni.com!gwatts From: Gary Watts Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Modified 160 Antenna - 160-ant.txt (1/1) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:50:56 -0600 Organization: Suba Communications Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: qni.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Jay, Your message was uuencoded. I dont know what you did wrong if anything.... other than the message was encoded. Encoded the message was about 1/3 larger than the unencoded message anyone who would want to glance/read your message would have to export that message to a file, then run uudecode filenemae, then load it into a text reader just to read your message. Did you do anything wrong < I guess not I just made it easier for WHO EVER wanted to READ your message to do so Good luck on your next post Gary Watts de N0OXV Kansas City Mo 81 GL1100I PS... Jay What is your correct email address... The postmaster at your site dont know you ?? See message at END On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Jay K Bell wrote: > Hi Gary, > Thanks for decoding the message. It would have really been nice if > you wouod have passed along what it possibly was that I did wrong. > Thanks > > > > From Postmaster@main.cpcnet.comThu Dec 7 09:47:14 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:42:31 -0500 From: Mail Administrator To: gwatts@qni.com Subject: Mail System Error - Returned Mail This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: The following destination addresses were unknown (please check the addresses and re-mail the message): SMTP Please reply to Postmaster@main.cpcnet.com if you feel this message to be in error. [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:29 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!usenet From: jwhac4ca@atl.mindspring.com (John Huecksteadt) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: N4PC LOOP ANTENNA Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 13:07:48 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <49s7g8$hu8@firehose.mindspring.com> References: <49bcvs$8d7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: jwhac4ca@atl.mindspring.com NNTP-Posting-Host: jwhac4ca.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 lormarsco1@aol.com (LORMARSCO1) wrote: >I have the article that was published in CQ antenna guide a couple of >years ago regarding a folded loop that was designed by N4PC called the "PC >Loop". The side length is about 55 feet. Is there any other combinations >of lengths or shapes that I can use on this interesting antenna. The area >that I have presents a problem for the size and shape described. I can go >bigger or with a diamond shape. I cannot find any programs that can >generate dimensions for this antenna. Please help. TNX. WBOHNS. Dave Fisher (W0MHS) had an article in "QST" about nine years ago. I believe it was called "The Loop Skywire". He had dimensions, etc. I will look around and see if I can find the issue. -John (AC4CA) From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.intelenet.com!news.service.uci.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!medtronic.com!usenet From: Toby Markowitz Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: NEC 4 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 16:00:36 -0800 Organization: Medtronic Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <30BF9724.754E@medtronic.com> References: <48qc76$h0j@trog.dra.hmg.gb> NNTP-Posting-Host: liang.pace.medtronic.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) CC: toby.markowitz@medtronic.com Chris Eilbeck wrote: > > Where can I get a copy of NEC 4? Is it still written in very VAX-specific > fortran or is NEC 4 more portable? > > TIA > > Chris > > -- > Chris Eilbeck, ceilbeck@taz.dra.hmg.gb > Room PC126, DRA Malvern. Tel +44 1684 896083. Fax +44 1684 896121 hello test From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!Dortmund.Germany.EU.net!nntp.gmd.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: NEC 4 Date: 3 Dec 1995 14:28:22 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 7 Message-ID: <49sc66$gu4@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <48qc76$h0j@trog.dra.hmg.gb> <49fuiq$ij$2@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> <30C08ECA.47ED@seldon.terminus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de >NEC4PC is available from several FTP sites. This will be surely NEC for PC and not NEC version 4. Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:31 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Re: New Office, No Reception! Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:06:51 GMT Lines: 24 Sender: slwork@netcom5.netcom.com Bob Berken (berken@collemcvoy.com) wrote: : I recently started a new job and I'm having problems picking up any a.m. : stations. The radio I'm using is a portable Sony CDF-450, your standard : small stereo. The building I'm in is a 24 floor complex. Any suggestions? 1) Move the radio close to a window. 2) There are devices which "boost" AM stations, typically they contain a coil of wire and you place them next to the radio without connecting anything. 3) Try to listen to stations at the higher end of the AM dial. There is a huge difference in how they travel through buildings. Once, I heard a broadcast engineer say that AM signals are "fatter" than FM ones and have a harder time getting into small spaces. Somewhat of a simplistic way of stating the case, but the signals are less "fat" at the upper end of the dial. I've noticed that a station on 570 disappears totally inside my parking garage, but one on 1310 comes in perfectly OK. The difference in wavelength is more than 2 to 1. I'm somewhat in the same boat, but with FM reception. If anyone has any advice for me, I'd appreciate it. Like how to build an antenna with 12db gain I can hold in my hand. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.netalliance.net!NewsWatcher!user Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: New Office, No Reception! Message-ID: From: berken@collemcvoy.com (Bob Berken) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:25:04 -0500 Organization: Colle & McVoy, Inc. Nntp-Posting-Host: 205.242.4.32 Lines: 3 I recently started a new job and I'm having problems picking up any a.m. stations. The radio I'm using is a portable Sony CDF-450, your standard small stereo. The building I'm in is a 24 floor complex. Any suggestions? From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:33 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!herbr From: herbr@netcom.com (Herb Rosenberg) Subject: Opinions on Force12 Antennas? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 23:48:34 GMT Lines: 28 Sender: herbr@netcom7.netcom.com I am interested in getting comments from any hams out there that have had any experience with the Force 12 antennas. I am in the early planning stages of designing a new antenna system for HF operations, and I would like to get a top quality and top performing solution. It was been suggested that many contesters and dx'ers consider Force 12 to be a leading design, and I would appreacite any comments. The last ime I was seriously looking for HF antennas was more than 20 years ago,. At that time, it seemed that most of the world class stations were using Telrex antennas. telrex no longer makes HF antennas for hams. I know that yhgain, cushcraft, and KLM still make excellent antennas for HF, but I would like to know, what is currently considered the "best" I will be setting up a 71 foot tower on a standard city lot, and would like to high a competitive Dx and contest station for all hf bands. I am not looking to compete with world class antennas farms, but still would like to be competive. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly apprecaited. Thanks and vy 73's. Herb - KG6OK -- herbr@netcom.com From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!usenet From: John M Taylor Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Opinions on Force12 Antennas? Date: 6 Dec 1995 22:12:55 GMT Organization: UCSF, ITS Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4a54h7$174c@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: gicd-mac15.ucsf.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) To: herbr@netcom.com X-URL: news:herbrDJ1BGy.2Ly@netcom.com I use a Force 12 Dxer and I am quite happy with it. It is exceptionally well designed, made with 6061T aluminum, and telescoping sections are put together with rivets -- a hand riveter is cheap and easy to use -- and rivets can be drilled out easily. This design is vastly superior to stainless steel bolts or hose clamps. Assembly is easy since all rivet holes are predrilled, and essentially no alignment is required. Element positions on the boom are located by brackets already riveted in place. I have not found a better engineered or stronger commercial antenna than those made by Force 12 -- many other companies produce junk by comparison. The gain and f/b ratios for Force 12 antennas also appear to be accurate, not the advertising nonsense perpetrated by some other companies. Force 12 probably has the greatest selection of antennas available, and they also custom build for you -- sometimes a customer's request becomes part of the product line. Everyone associated with the company is friendly and helpful. As you can tell, I am enthusiatic about their antennas. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:36 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Re: PVC booms Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <4a50n5$2ei@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:32:27 GMT Lines: 27 Sender: slwork@netcom17.netcom.com HENRYPOL (henrypol@aol.com) wrote: : Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter : gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for : 6 or 10 meters? Especially interested in how to attach elements and : hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to : fail. Are you trying to put the elements INSIDE the plastic? Or is just the boom itself made of plastic and you will do something like drill holes through the pipe and shove metal rods through at various points. If you are doing the latter, perhaps you could cut the (boom) pipe where you want to attach elements and splice in some type of plastic fitting for added strength. I might be interested in doing something similar and have a couple of questions (which are probably "dumb"). 1. If the boom is plastic and you shove metal rods (i.e. directors) through it, does it matter that the boom itself is not conductive? I know that the drive element has to be insulated from everything else but do the other elements need to be electrically connected? 2. If the elements were INSIDE plastic pipes (for added strength), would there be an appreciable effect on the performance of the antenna? I would think not because, although the dielectric constant is higher in the plastic, it is not a significant part of the path of the signal. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PVC booms Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 16:02:24 GMT Organization: Inlink Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4a7346$h05@news1.inlink.com> References: <4a50n5$2ei@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip27.inlink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 henrypol@aol.com (HENRYPOL) wrote: >Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter >gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for >6 or 10 meters? Especially interested in how to attach elements and >hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to >fail. I have made two yagi's from PVC. One used 3/8 inch elements and the boom was drilled. The other used 1/2 inch copper for the elements and I used X-Fittings over the boom. Rather than cut the boom, I honed out the fittings so they would slide over the boom, the boom is not drilled. Because of the length I was leary about drilling also. I did have to support both ends of the boom and mount the antenna 10 feet below the top of the mast and run guys from just inside the tip of each boom to the tip of the mast to support the boom straight, else it looked like a horseshoe. TTUL Gary - KG0ZP From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:38 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!fconvx.ncifcrf.gov!mack From: mack@ncifcrf.gov (Joe Mack) Subject: Re: PVC booms Message-ID: Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center References: <4a50n5$2ei@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4a7346$h05@news1.inlink.com> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:44:09 GMT Lines: 33 In article <4a7346$h05@news1.inlink.com> raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) writes: >henrypol@aol.com (HENRYPOL) wrote: > >>Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter >>gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for >>6 or 10 meters? Regular antenna grade Al tubing (6061-T or whatever) is MUCH lighter for the same strength Joe NA3T mack@ncifcrf.gov >>Especially interested in how to attach elements and >>hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to >>fail. >I have made two yagi's from PVC. One used 3/8 inch elements and the >boom was drilled. The other used 1/2 inch copper for the elements and >I used X-Fittings over the boom. Rather than cut the boom, I honed >out the fittings so they would slide over the boom, the boom is not >drilled. Because of the length I was leary about drilling also. > >I did have to support both ends of the boom and mount the antenna 10 >feet below the top of the mast and run guys from just inside the tip >of each boom to the tip of the mast to support the boom straight, else >it looked like a horseshoe. > >TTUL >Gary - KG0ZP > > From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gate.net!gate.net!not-for-mail From: jaywward@gate.net (Jay Ward) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PVC booms Date: 8 Dec 1995 11:05:19 -0500 Organization: CyberGate, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <4a9nnv$n1s@hopi.gate.net> References: <4a50n5$2ei@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4a7346$h05@news1.inlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hopi.gate.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr. (raiar@inlink.com) wrote: : henrypol@aol.com (HENRYPOL) wrote: : : >Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter : >gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for : >6 or 10 meters? Especially interested in how to attach elements and : >hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to : >fail. I use 1.5" white PVC to build yagis on 70cm, 2m, and 6m with no problem. The longest boom is about 6' on the 6m 3element yagi. I use the thick wall PVC with 1/4" aluminum bar stock for my elements. Just drill 1/4" holes through the widdle and lide them in. I cut the 6m into to pieces, placing a T connector in the middle attached to the support mast. This makes longest unsupported length 3'. It's only been up about a month so not sure about longevity but as an experimental platform it's fast cheap and easy. Bar stock costs me $4 per 12 ft. PVC is $1.79 per 12', Most expensive component is the UHF connector and coax. I just tapped the two ends of the driven element and used nuts to lock'em to the boom. It took longer to model on my computer than it did to build. Not sure how this would work on 10m but that's next on my list to tackel. 73, KE4ZOG Jay From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!delta.misha.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!multiverse!library.erc.clarkson.edu!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: henrypol@aol.com (HENRYPOL) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: PVC booms Date: 6 Dec 1995 16:07:49 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 5 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4a50n5$2ei@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: henrypol@aol.com (HENRYPOL) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for 6 or 10 meters? Especially interested in how to attach elements and hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to fail. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!xyberlynx.net!zenox.com!grumpy.insinc.net!sparky.insinc.net!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!usenet From: John Passaneau Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Q: Antenna impedence? Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 09:53:21 -0800 Organization: Penn State University Lines: 14 Message-ID: <30C33591.27F5@leps.phys.psu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: thing-two.phys.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) jbeens@silver.sdsmt.edu wrote: > > How can I determine the impedence of an antenna at its feed point? > > I would like to construct a 1/2 wave dipole for the 2 meter band. > > Thanks, > Jason Beens KB0CDNTwo ways: 1- put the measuring device your using at the feed point of the antenna that means puting it up in the air. 2- Use a length of coax thats an multiple of a half wave length to move the measuring device to a easer place to reach. There may need to make a correcton for the loss in the coax. John Passaneau WB8EIY, State College Pa. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!granite.sentex.net!p15.silicon.sentex.ca!user From: rich@sentex.net (Rich Fortnum) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Q: Antenna impedence? Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 10:56:27 -0400 Organization: F & M Breweries Limited Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p15.silicon.sentex.ca In article , jbeens@silver.sdsmt.edu wrote: >How can I determine the impedence of an antenna at its feed point? > >I would like to construct a 1/2 wave dipole for the 2 meter band. > >Thanks, >Jason Beens KB0CDN Get yourself a SWR meter, I believe. It is an antenna tuner, which you place between your antenna and tuner, so that you can match the two. Cheers. -- ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ Rich Fortnum (aka BeeRich) F&M Breweries Guelph, Ontario rich@sentex.net (temporary) Renaissance Brewers of Fine Ales and Lagers From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!INbe.net!innet.be!usenet From: Hilde Hofkens Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Radio Vlaanderen Internationaal on-line ! Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 10:00:03 +0100 Organization: iM@Gic Lines: 17 Message-ID: <30C55B93.4A@imagic.be> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.7.28.67 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (Windows; I; 32bit) Finally the day has come : the new Website of Radio Vlaanderen Internationaal, BRTN's world service, is on line since December 1. The old Website was refurnished and contains a wealth of information on RVI, its 50th anniversary, programmes, reception, International Listeners' Club and much more. RVI also puts you on the way to a series of interesting Websites. Information on our Website is available in six languages : Dutch, French, German, English, Spanish and Arabic. Shortly you will be able to read the RVI news on our Website, or listen to it via Real Audio. It is worth your while to call on http://www.brtn.be/rvi/ For more information rvi@brtn.be From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:44 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!ub!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!in2p3.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!ghiscox From: "George L. Hiscox" Subject: Re: rain gutter ant. feed point? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: To: wdzeares@ix.netcom.com Sender: ghiscox@netcom18.netcom.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <49qppq$80b@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 02:44:50 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Lines: 28 wdzeares@ix.netcom.com (W. Dennis Zeares ) wrote: >If you are going to try the rain gutter as an antenna, where would you >feed it, top, middle, bottom....??? Let me know your ideas. I rigged a rain gutter antenna for a friend of mine who lives in a condo. Used water to sink a 10' long 1/2" copper pipe into the ground beneath the downspout. Put a couple of solder lugs on the end of a **SHORT** piece of coax and pop riveted the center conductor to the downspout with the shield going to the ground. Ran a couple of insulated wire radials along the edge of the condo wall on top of the ground, also attached to the ground rod. The business end of the **SHORT** (probably 10-12') coax went to a tuner. The rain gutter was in the configuration of an inverted L. The antenna was "invisible" and allowed world wide HF communication. 73 and good luck, George -- | George L. Hiscox | Very funny Scotty... Now | | ghiscox@netcom.com | beam down my clothes !!! | | WA6RIK @ WB6YMH.#socal.ca.usa.na | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!southwind.net!symbios.com!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!yuma!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!fhw.ee.ubc.ca!not-for-mail From: davem@ee.ubc.ca (Dave Michelson) Newsgroups: sci.electronics.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: RF Coverage Prediction Software? Date: 7 Dec 1995 17:00:40 -0800 Organization: University of BC, Dept. of Electrical Engineering Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4a82no$bo9@fhw.ee.ubc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: fhw.ee.ubc.ca In recent years, several government and commercial UHF/VHF coverage prediction software hace been introduced including: Comsearch EDX MSI Planet (a special version used by Ericsson is called EET) NPS/X (Nokia) Predict (Industry Canada) Tornado (Siemens) There are undoubtedly others. If you can provide me with some info (or pointers to info) on the capabilities, price, and availability of such software, I'll summarize the results and post them to the group. -- Dave Michelson University of British Columbia davem@ee.ubc.ca Radar Remote Sensing Group From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:46 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!psgrain!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!agis!news3.noc.netcom.net!zdc!zippo!usenet From: Harold or Leonella Akong Subject: Re: rhombic design freeware Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: orrin@redshift.com Sender: usenet@news.zippo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nntp-Posting-Host: 196.32.32.35 Organization: Zippo Message-ID: X-Url: news:49npp9$qg1@wing.redshift.com References: <49npp9$qg1@wing.redshift.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 01:17:33 GMT Lines: 15 Hello Orin, Just had a look at your posting and was wondering if you had a similar program for the Macintosh. In fact I am interested in any freeware for the Mac. Just newly got on to the Internet and still learning. Thanks and 73s de Leon ... 9y4rl From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.PBI.net!agis!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.alt.net!news.redshift.com!usenet From: "Orrin C. Winton WN1Z" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: rhombic utility: bug fix (already!) Date: 5 Dec 1995 00:39:37 GMT Organization: Redshift Online Service Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4a04c9$52g@wing.redshift.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: red115.redshift.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Today i posted bug-fixed versions of my RHOMBIC UTILITY (111rhom.exe for dos, 202wrhom.exe for Win3.1) at my ftp site. The fix allows the utility to design rhombics positioned less than 0.26 wavelength above the ground. site: redshift.com whoops that's host: redshift.com site: /ftp/orrin or /home/ftp/orrin (depends on what your ftp program sees) login: anonymous passwd: your email address See also my Web page, http://www.redshift.com/~orrin Thanks for reading. orrin@redshift.com From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!News.MO.NET!usenet From: aa0yt@mo.net (Colin Wright) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Saturn SW2 Wagon and Antennae Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 16:50:48 GMT Organization: -=MO.NET=- P-Net, Inc's Missouri Operations Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4a4la5$nco@Twain.MO.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm3x1.dialip.mo.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.113 Has anyone out there had experiences (good/bad/indifferent) with mounting antennas (antennae?) to Saturn SW2 (all plastic body) wagons? I have a Saturn SW2; I have an Icom IC-706; I have no antenna on the car. Any clues/hints/etc would be GREATLY appreciated! Colin R. Wright, AA0YT aa0yt@mo.net http://walden.mo.net/~aa0yt From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Saturn SW2 Wagon and Antennae Date: 7 Dec 1995 13:14:50 GMT Organization: IONet Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4a6pca$3rj@ionews.ionet.net> References: <4a4la5$nco@Twain.MO.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: osip48.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: aa0yt@mo.net For HF have a trailer hitch installed. Henry the Texas Bugcatcher guy has mounts designed that utilize a trailer hitch besides this is the best location to mount an HF antenna because it allows you to use the longest antenna thereby having a higher radiation resistance. 73 Hank WA5JRH From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!avalon.chinalake.navy.mil!usenet Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: SGC smartuner use w/balun? Message-ID: From: Bill Harwood Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:57:12 GMT Sender: usenet@avalon.chinalake.navy.mil (NAWS news admin) References: <49j6an$1h6@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: fiscon@ix.netcom.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-Url: news:49j6an$1h6@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com Lines: 15 Try some ferrite beads (al la Radio Shack or MFJ) at both ends of the SGC-230 to radio cable (coax plus power) or some fairly tight loops in the cable. If the COAX is near resonnate length the RF bite on the shield can be real bad. The bite will also affect the SGC's tuning behavior. Good luck \------------------------------------------------------/ \ Bill Harwood U play it, I'll dance it / \ AB6DY or / \ I'll play it, U dance it / \----------------------------------------------/ From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns From: bbruhns@newshost.li.net (Bob Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: snr for am tv ? Date: 3 Dec 1995 18:24:22 GMT Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Lines: 5 Message-ID: <49sq0m$9c0@linet02.li.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] For broadcast TV, snr in the 60 dB range is excellent, in the 50's is quite good, in the 40's is getting noisy, in the 30's is getting snowy. For amateur fast scan work, a high contrast picture will still be visible in a whole lot of noise, maybe down to 10 dB s/n or less, but detail will be hopelessly lost. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:51 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.rmit.EDU.AU!goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU!core.apana.org.au!usenet From: peter@suburbia.net (P Dettmann) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew Subject: Re: Source of silver plated wire ? Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 21:34:47 GMT Organization: Australian Public Access Network Association Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4a2ah6$lhj@core.apana.org.au> References: <3067C521@SmtpOut.em.cdc.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: suburbia.apana.org.au X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17476 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11882 jtw2@NIOSR1.EM.CDC.GOV (Wassell, James T., Ph.D.) wrote: >use silver plated no. 10 or no. 8 wire. Does anyone know where to buy I find easiest is to get the wire and take it to silver platers (see in phone book) Peter Dettmann From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!PC-Hudak1-J.imr.McMaster.CA!hudakjm From: hudakjm@mcmaster.ca (John Hudak) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew Subject: Re: Source of silver plated wire ? Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 11:04:59 Organization: Institute for Materials Research Lines: 5 Message-ID: References: <3067C521@SmtpOut.em.cdc.gov> <4a2ah6$lhj@core.apana.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: pc-hudak1-j.imr.mcmaster.ca X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17505 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11930 Wire with teflon insulation is silver plated. Apparently they can't put the teflon directly on to the copper without silver plating it first. From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:53 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.encore.com!dmobley From: dmobley@encore.com (Dennis Mobley) Subject: Stacking CC 13b2 2m Ants Organization: Encore Computer Corporation Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:08:22 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@encore.com (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: maxis.encore.com Lines: 15 Hello all.... A friend has 2 CushCraft 13b2 and wishes to stack them. CC sells a "PowerDivider" for such operations that looks like a coax tee, two 1/4 wave lengths of 75ohm coax and two connectors. The primary use will be 2 meter SSB operations. We are open to any ideas or suggestions. Thank you in advance Dennis Mobley KT4FI Sunrise, Fl. dmobley@encore.com From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:54 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!NewsWatcher!user From: hbaker@netcom.com (Henry Baker) Subject: Stupid transmission line problem Message-ID: Sender: hbaker@netcom9.netcom.com Organization: nil organization Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:59:09 GMT Lines: 9 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17492 sci.physics.electromag:7180 The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead, shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about 'twisted pair'. Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as twin-lead? I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature of the transmission line? -- www/ftp directory: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hb/hbaker/home.html From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:55 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.zynet.com!fg1.plk.af.mil!lynx.unm.edu!SantaFe!usenet From: Jim Potter Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 18:59:16 -0700 Organization: JP Accelerator Works, Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <30C64A74.80C@jpaw.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dial131.roadrunner.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (WinNT; I) To: Henry Baker Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17499 sci.physics.electromag:7185 Henry Baker wrote: > > The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead, > shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about > 'twisted pair'. Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as > twin-lead? I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature > of the transmission line? > > -- > www/ftp directory: > ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hb/hbaker/home.html Close enough. The impedance and velocity can be calculated from the capacitance per unit length and the dielectric contstant. However, it's somewhat like stripline in that the fields exist in two regions with different dieletric constants. A rough rule of thumb for twisted pair is that the impedance is about 100 ohms. This seems reasonable, since the conductors are much more closely spaced than for twinlead and the impedance goes approximately like the logarithm of the dimensions (e.g. spacing over wire diameter). Presumably you're are not using twisted pair where precision is important. Jim -- James M. Potter, President E-mail: jpotter@jpaw.com JP Accelerator Works, Inc. URL: www.jpaw.com/jpaw/ 2245 47th Street Voice: 505-662-5804 Los Alamos, NM 87544-1604 FAX: 505-662-5210 From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:57 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!chaos.aoc.nrao.edu!newshost.nmt.edu!baervan.nmt.edu!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!news.zynet.com!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!CERN.ch!dxcern.cern.ch!jeroen From: jeroen@dxcern.cern.ch (Jeroen Belleman) Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem X-Nntp-Posting-Host: dxcern.cern.ch Message-ID: Sender: news@news.cern.ch (USENET News System) Organization: CERN European Laboratory for Particle Physics References: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 07:41:52 GMT Lines: 16 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17503 sci.physics.electromag:7188 In article , Henry Baker wrote: >The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead, >shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about >'twisted pair'. Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as >twin-lead? I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature >of the transmission line? That is indeed what I found when I measured it. Twisting has no significant effect on the characteristic impedance of the line, provided the twisting does not actually change the spacing between the wires. Best regards, Jeroen Belleman jeroen@dxcern.cern.ch From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!not-for-mail From: alf@kaiwan.com (Alfred Lee) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem Date: 6 Dec 1995 20:15:35 -0800 Organization: KAIWAN Internet (310-527-4279,818-756-0180,909-785-9712,714-638-4133,805-294-9338) Lines: 58 Sender: alf@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com Message-ID: <9-bnmClg14aM068yn@kaiwan.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17504 sci.physics.electromag:7189 In article , hbaker@netcom.com (Henry Baker) wrote: > The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead, > shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about > 'twisted pair'. Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as > twin-lead? I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature > of the transmission line? > > -- > www/ftp directory: > ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hb/hbaker/home.html I happened to have a book handy that have *ONE* page on twisted pairs: 'The Design of Impedance-Matching Networks For Radio-Frequency And Microwave Amplifiers.' by Pieter L.D. Abrie, published by Artech House, Inc. Excerpt from page 65: Transmission lines with a wide range of characteristic impedances can be realized by twisting lengths of wire together. The characteristic impedances of these twisted-pair lines decrease when thicker wire is used. For example, the characteristic impedance is 35 ohm when No. 20 (AWG) enamel-insulated wire with 3 twists per centimeter is used and 120 ohm when No. 30 vinyl-coated wire (0.05 cm outside diameter) with 3.6 twists per centimeter is used. Increasing the number of twists per centimeter also decreases the characteristic impedance of these transmission lines. For example, the characteristic impedance obtained by twisting two No. 20 enamel- insulated wires together decreases from approximately 42 ohm to 30 ohm when the number of twists is doubled from two to four. A line with 50 ohm characteristic impedance can be obtained by twisting two No. 22 enamel-insulated wires together to have twists per centimeter. Characteristic impedances lower than 10 ohm are often required in the HF range. These impedances can be realized by twisting together many wires (using two-wire lines) with smaller diameters. It is difficult to calculate the losses in these transmission lines because the dielectric losses, skin efect, proximity effect, and the fact that the current is flowing in both directions along the line must be taken into account. It is, therefore, easier to determine the attenuation of these lines practically. The losses in twisted-wire transmission lines are usually not a prblem below 100 MHz. Sorry, no proofreading. 73, --- Alfred Lee alf@kaiwan.com KE6KGV 'The answer is (e^iă + 1) ? "No" : "Yes"' From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:00 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!daffy!uwvax!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.midplains.net!gw2.att.com!oucsboss!bobcat!kinsler From: kinsler@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Mark Kinsler ) Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem X-Nntp-Posting-Host: bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Message-ID: Sender: postmaster@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu X-Nntp-Posting-Date: Thu Dec 7 01:14:16 1995 Organization: Ohio University, College of Engineerng & Technology References: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:14:17 GMT Lines: 15 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17535 sci.physics.electromag:7207 In article , Henry Baker wrote: >The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead, >shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about >'twisted pair'. Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as >twin-lead? I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature >of the transmission line? > >-- The telephone companies are the mother church of twisted-pair lines. The twist is there to reduce crosstalk between pairs of lines. In a telephone cable containing, say, 3000 pairs, each will have a characteristic twist to minimize crosstalk. I think that within the practical range of twists, the impedance stays a pretty consistent 600 ohms, though. Mark Kinsler From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:01 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!not-for-mail From: jmaass@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Jeffrey Maass) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: TOPBAND/160m Mail Reflector? Date: 2 Dec 1995 13:11:43 -0500 Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <49q4sv$l2t@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> References: <49mslk$g7o@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> <49o782$51@castle.nando.net> <49porh$pfh@ram2.ramlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Joe Subich (subich@ramlink.net) wrote: : In <49o782$51@castle.nando.net>, Dave Hockaday writes: : > : >PLease post this, if you get it, Jeff. I'd love to subscribe, too. : > : The Topband reflector is: : topband@frontier.net : Administrative traffic (subscription, etc.) should go to: : topband-request@frontier.net : To subscribe send an e-mail message containing the single line "subscribe" : in the text to "topband-request@frontier.net." Further information is : available by sending an e-mail message containing the single line "info" : to the same address. : ... Joe Subich, AD8I : (subich@ramlink.net) Thanks, Joe, for the email. I got registered OK last night. The "info" function appears to be non-functional, and the "Welcome" message received acknowledging my subscription was devoid of the information on how to use the reflector (which was introduced in the message). Looks like a file is missing at frontier.net. Thanks again for the information, all! 73, -- Jeff Maass NW of Columbus Ohio Amateur Radio K8ND USPSA/IPSC # L-1192 NROI/CRO From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:02 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dimensional.com!winternet.com!news.minn.net!skypoint.com!umn.edu!dialup-5-161.gw.umn.edu!user From: rayx0020@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Jack Ray) Subject: un-guyed masts Message-ID: Sender: news@news.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: dialup-5-161.gw.umn.edu Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 14:36:09 GMT Lines: 22 I am interested in knowing what options are available for use as un-guyed antenna supports. I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy wires above the house. I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy these, how long is practical and what do they cost? What about hollow fiberglass poles? I am thinking of something like a pole-vaulting blank. Would these not be stiffer than a solid pole but still quite strong? What about aluminum poles? How tall could a 1.5˛ un-guyed aluminum be and still give reasonable wind performance? Finally, what about a wooden mast made of ash? Other suggestions? Thanks, Jack NŘZKA From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:04 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!news.luc.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!kgkmac.repoc.nwu.edu!user From: kgk@nwu.edu (Kenneth Kalan) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: un-guyed masts Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 13:43:45 -0600 Organization: Northwestern University Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: kgkmac.repoc.nwu.edu In article , rayx0020@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Jack Ray) wrote: >I am interested in knowing what options are available for use as un-guyed >antenna supports. I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave >ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy >wires above the house. I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles >and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy >these, how long is practical and what do they cost? > Snip I'm not sure how high you want to go but here's what I did. I bought an ROHM 10' tripod along with a 10' mast. Mounted the tripod on the roof which with the mask brings the base of the antenna about 17.5' above the roof level or about the same as having a small 30 - 35' tower in the yard. My antenna is about 10' tall which puts the tip around 27' above roof level. I was toying around with the idea of adding another 10' mask to my system. I feel it could handle it, the tripod is quite sturdy and about 2.5' of mask goes into the tripod. Not sure if I'll do it since everything works well, I would be qurious if the extra 10' would really gain me anything. BTW my antenna is a Commet CX333 tri band vertical. Ken -------------------------------------------------------- _---- Kenneth Kalan PP ASEL ===_ / | Northwestern University | ___/[__ ] \___/__ | Prosthetics Research Laboratory |\__ _|___|_____===/ Rehabilitation Engineering Program | \/ kgk@nwu.edu N9YIR o O Civil Air Patrol, 2LT,1st Lyons Composite Squadron - Red Fox 407 Melrose Park RACES 1M64 Skywarn Weather Spotter http://kgkmac.repoc.nwu.edu/ If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. -- Mark Twain -------------------------------------------------------------- From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.Edu.TW!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!serv.HiNet.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!sparky!nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us!usenet From: mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us (Gary McDuffie, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: un-guyed masts Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 03:46:06 GMT Organization: AG0N's Radio Ranch Lines: 36 Message-ID: <30c6631d.479660@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.206.239.252 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 On Wed, 6 Dec 1995 14:36:09 GMT, rayx0020@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Jack Ray) wrote: > I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave > ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy > wires above the house. No offense meant, but I am always amazed by statements like that. If you are a ham, how does she expect you to participate in your hobby without antennas? Sounds like time to switch either the wife or the hobby! Were you married first, or a ham first? Did she not agree to you becoming a ham, assuming you might have married before getting your license? With ham radio comes antennas, all kinds, all sizes. If you are having trouble with a simple mast to elevate a 2m gp, just think what would happen if you tried to put up a tower and a real antenna for HF. > I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles > and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy > these, how long is practical and what do they cost? I don't think they would be very suitable for permanent antennas, but there was a company at Dayton several years ago that had telescopic fiberglass poles that went up some thirty feet, if I remember right. Perhaps the bottom section of one of those would be stiff enough for permanent installation, but I doubt it would be over 10 feet long. Even a metal mast, if unguyed, is going to be "whippy" in the wind, at least in the kind of wind we get in my area. Fifty MPH is common this time of year and we've had several of those days in the last month and a half. Good luck with the antenna. By the way, if you don't need long haul coverage, you might want to take a look at the Ventenna. I can't speak for performance, but it mounts on your vent pipe and requires no other supports (guys). __ _ __ __ / _ _ _ __ /_| / _ / )/| ) (__)(// (/ ( |(__)(__// |/ / mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: un-guyed masts Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 15:57:03 GMT Organization: Inlink Lines: 42 Message-ID: <4a72qd$h05@news1.inlink.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip27.inlink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 rayx0020@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Jack Ray) wrote: >I am interested in knowing what options are available for use as un-guyed >antenna supports. I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave >ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy >wires above the house. I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles >and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy >these, how long is practical and what do they cost? >What about hollow fiberglass poles? I am thinking of something like a >pole-vaulting blank. Would these not be stiffer than a solid pole but >still quite strong? >What about aluminum poles? How tall could a 1.5˛ un-guyed aluminum be and >still give reasonable wind performance? >Finally, what about a wooden mast made of ash? >Other suggestions? >Thanks, >Jack >NŘZKA FWIW: I have a 50 foot push-up pole, with a 10 foot mast on top that holds a 6-meter ringo. 30 feet up from the ground I have a 3 halfwave 2 meter mirrored-J out 6 feet from the mast and a 3 halfwave 440 mirrored-J 5 feet out from the mast held by hose clams to the mast and supported from under the ringo with small guys. We took the guys off the pole during a tree removal from my yard and they were never replaced. Even in the high winds that come through it has stood solid. The mast is mounted on a 1/2 inch horseshoe pole driven into the ground and attatched at the eave of the house with pipe-strap. No other support or guys. Gary - KG0ZP From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:08 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Which HF Vertical Date: 3 Dec 1995 11:06:55 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 75 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <49shuv$ig3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <49ponv$i65@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <0099A2F5.7B8A68E1@netins.net>, crcarlson@netins.net writes: >Steve I would differ with you on this. Generally what you say is true, but as >one raises >the feedpoint of a vertical it becomes more effecient. Granted a >common-garden-variety >type vertical like my real old 14 AVQ shouldn't be used without radials but >some verticals >are designed with an elevated feedpoint so as to do away with radials. The >ideal case in >point would be a dipole, made half wave length, tilted on its side. One would >NOT want to >put radials on such an antenna. The gap works on the elevated feedpoint >principle. Read >some of the stuff Kurt N Sterba says in WorldRadio about this. >Anybody see any holes in what I say here? >Peace >WB0FDJ Hi Mr. WB0FDJ, I disagree with that. Contrary to what Mr. "Sterba" thinks, he does make errors. Let me explain the flaw in the theory he supported. Feedpoint location is not directly related to efficiency. Major changes in efficiency, in an antenna of given length and conductor loss, come from changes in current distribution and level. We know antennas radiate the strongest EM field from the current maxima, but they also radiate from any area that has current flow. That radiation causes electrons to flow in any conductor in the area of the antenna (and even throughout the universe)! The only thing that stops the efect is shieding or cancellation by having an exactly equal and opposite "movement". Let's look at the GAP. The hype is that the "elevated gap radiates, and keeps the radiation far above the earth". The gap doesn't radiate, the current displacement does. A base fed half wave vertical has a gap at the base, yet it radiates primarily from the center! A pair of stacked 1/2 waves called "two half waves in phase" has a gap in the middle, but the main radiated field comes from the unbroken center of each half! The current maxima of the GAP isn't even at the feedpoint (gap), because it is an asymetrical vertical. And ground losses are identical to what they would be if the conductor was broken and fed ANYWHERE in the structure! It's all hype. (Instead of a lightning bolt leaping from the "gap" it should be a little tiny spark. ;-) ) For a given vertical radiator length under 1/2 wl, maximum efficiency always occurs if the radiator is worked against a good ground system. Especially if the current is as large as possible over the entire length of the radiating structure. That's why the Uni-hat blew the GASH away in a test with real FS meters, and why a ground mounted vertical with a modest radial system got much better reports in QST's review. My ground mounted MFJ quarter wave and a Butternut with radials both killed a GAP here (I've done the A-B tests). They even mis-apply an IEEE paper about an asymetrical BC band vertical 1/2 wl tall that was fed against six full length radials 1/4 wl above earth at the feedpoint. That doesn't look anything like the GAP, yet they quote the conclusion of that veryticals performance in their ads! Hype, hype, hype. If you can't have radials, and need a vertical, use a groundless vertical. It'll get you on the air. If you can put in a modest ground, use a regular vertical. You'll be much louder. That goes for ALL groundless verticals, not just the Gash. I agree fully with Steve Miller. Ole "Kurt" is in orbit on this one. 73, Tom From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:09 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: YAGIMAX2 problem Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:57:17 GMT Lines: 11 Sender: slwork@netcom16.netcom.com I was trying to use YAGIMAX2 to design a 4-element antenna for FM reception at 105Mhz. Apparently the program does not accept a frequency input and produce a design. So I thought I would put in some "reasonable" values and tweak from there. I put in 4 elements spaced 1 foot apart. The reflector was 3 feet, the drive element 2.8 feet, and the 2 directors 2.6 and 2.4 feet. A graphic picture shows something which looks like the intended design. The polar plot shows a gain of 2db with little or no front-to-back ratio. Other program options give the message "something is totally screwed up" with no explanation. Are the values I put in so unrealistic the program cannot run? Or is this a bug in the program? From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help needed on city fm broadcast reception" Date: 7 Dec 95 16:05:40 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512071605.IAA05324@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "needed" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:27 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!wariat.org!news From: (Tripp) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 10 meter vertical Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 01:54:42 GMT Organization: APK - Internet Provider for Ohio. Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4aaflo$op3@wariat.wariat.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: m09.cannet.com What is a good vertical for 10 meters ? I'm using a Hust. 4btv but want to go to monoband ten meter vertical. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:28 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: labenz@ix.netcom.com (David M. Arruzza ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 160 meter top loaded designs Date: 11 Dec 1995 21:54:42 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4ai9b2$5j9@cloner3.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nhv-ct1-01.ix.netcom.com CQ CQ CQ TO ALL RADIO AMATEURS.... LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON TOP LOADED VERTICALS OPERATING IN THE 160 METER BAND..ONLY PRESENT DESIGN CRITERIA IS THAT THE VERTICAL ELEMENT NOT EXCEED 50' IN LENGTH...WOULD RATHER HAVE PROVEN DESIGNS NOT WHAT YOU THINK WILL WORK...ALSO INTERESTED IN CONSTRUCTION DETAILS FOR THE "MINOOKA SPECIAL" VERTICAL THAT HAS BEEN USED ON MANY DXPEDITIONS OPERATING ON 160 LATELY. 73 AND SEASONS GREETINGS FROM WA1UUD @ RADIO RIDGE ANSONIA CT 160-10 METERS SSB/CW ALL BAREFOOT...48 STATES WORKED ON 160 ONLY NEED KL7 AND MISSISSIPPI... DAVE From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:29 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.usa.net!usenet From: dwshock@usa.net (Doug Shock) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 160m dipole Date: 13 Dec 1995 05:07:13 GMT Organization: Internet Express (800-592-1240 customer service) Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4aln21$mgo@shiva.usa.net> Reply-To: dwshock@usa.net NNTP-Posting-Host: port22.cos1-annex.usa.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14 I would like to erect a dipole for DX'ing on 80 and 160. Kinda new at all this and don't have much time to experiment. I have read some on the L-dipole thru this group. anyone like to offer some tips and or advice I would sure appreciate it. 73's AA0UF Doug From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.supernet.net!news.cais.net!wb3ffv!blkcat.blkcat.com!f41.n109.z1.fidonet.org!f42.n109.z1.fidonet.org!fforum.blkcat.com!not-for-mail Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:38:00 +0000 From: Richard_Sanford@fforum.blkcat.com (Richard Sanford) Subject: 2-meter HT antennas Message-ID: Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Organization: Net 109 Fidonet<->Internet gateway Lines: 20 X-Gateway: FIDOGATE 3.9.3 I have a couple of end-driven half-wave dipoles which seem to be about as good as the 5/8 wave mag mount on my truck, but they are awkwardly long for handheld use. I also have several rubber duckies, the best of which is a 10.5" Larson. I notice that 1 watt into either half-wave puts out a better signal than 2.5 watts into the Larsen. Why? What is so difficult about making a short antenna that will radiate efficiently at 2 m? For the same voltage on the ends of 2 antennas of different lengths, the shorter one will have less dipole strength and radiate less. But I would think that the shorter one could be equipped with tuning and voltage transforming components that would raise the voltage on the ends of the antenna until it would radiate as much power as the half-wave. Is someone building such an antenna? Is there some reason why it can't work? * SLMR 2.1a * Remember Waco. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 2-meter HT antennas Date: 13 Dec 1995 09:10:14 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4am59m$291s@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de First the full size half wave has the advantage of producing a horizontally sqashed radiation pattern, giving some directivity. More important, a short antenna requires a higher current to radiate the same amount of power, (a lower radiation resistance). The higher current also means higher resistive losses in the antenna. 73, Moritz DL5UH > * SLMR 2.1a * Remember Waco. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!Lehigh.EDU!Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail From: c002@Lehigh.EDU Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 2.2GHz dish feed for 10GHz....posibble??? Date: 9 Dec 1995 12:47:27 -0500 Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4aci3f$13db@ns5-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ns5-1.cc.lehigh.edu Hello, i picked up a 2.2 GHz dish over the summer from a hamfest. not only is it not for the 2.3gig band, but its about 4 times heavyer then the dish i have. can i use it for 10GHz work? thanks DAvid |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | David Roseman | c002@lehigh.edu OUTTA ORDER! | | Saucon Valley Sen. HS | | | SysOp of NODE 3 BBS | The Flying HAm - BBS | | | Running OBV/2 Software | Technomage - BBS | | | | N3SQE/1 - HAm V | | | N3SQE@Nxxxx.FNxxxx.PA.USA.NA - Packet | From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:33 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet From: Danie Brynard Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 2.2GHz dish feed for 10GHz....posibble??? Date: 11 Dec 1995 07:54:44 GMT Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4ago44$ljm@hawk.pix.za> References: <4aci3f$13db@ns5-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: net-6.pta.pix.za Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Probably if you have a 10GHz feed of course. The higher the frequency the more accurate the parabolic curve should be machined. 73 From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!news.lth.se!usenet From: peter@maxlab.lu.se (Peter Rojsel) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 70cm Helix Question....HELP! Date: 12 Dec 1995 16:55:43 GMT Organization: MAX-lab Lines: 47 Message-ID: <4akc6f$fl4@news.lth.se> References: <49clkg$23or@ns3-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: peter.maxlab.lu.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 In article , peake@dstos3.dsto.gov.au says... >In Jasik's Antenna book, he describes a 4 helix array with each helix having a >feed point impedance of 130 Ohms. He uses a tapered line match which from the >rough diagram in the book looks like a constant width, tapered spacing line. >The idea is to transform to 200 Ohms and join all the feeders at a single >point to get 50 Ohms. > >I tried this at 1800 MHz with disappointing results. I don't know what the >geometry of the feed point is supposed to be to give 130 Ohms. I see >references here to 50 Ohms and 90-100 Ohms. Are these dependant on the >particular helix or the size of the hole in the backplane or what? A helical antenna has a natural feedpoint impedance of 150 ohms. This is a very resistive impedance over at least an octave in frequency. I have designed and built a helical antenna for 2400MHz. The performance is about 15dB gain. The tricky part of the helical antenna design is the matching to the 50 ohm feedline. I have used a quarter wavelength transformer. This I made out of the inner conductor of the feedline coax and a piece of copper tubing acting as the outer conductor. However this was not sufficient to exactly match the 150 ohms to 50 ohms so I had to apply a little trick to the antenna itself. I took a 1 by 2 cm copper plate and soldered to a suitable point of the helix itself. A suitable point is in my case somewhere between the feedpoint and halfway down the first turn of the helix. Of course I had access to professional instruments such as a HP network analyzer so I could measure the reflections from the antenna feedline. The hole in the reflector is on one antenna I made equal to the diameter of the copper tube mentioned above, which is roughly 15mm and on another antenna I made equal to the diameter of the helix. The antennas perform equally well and has similar data. The tapered line variety is probably an attempt to make the impedance transformation broadband, but this is extremely difficult to do. I tried some variety of it and failed. The quarterwave transformer gave me a 3dB bandwidth of about 100MHz. The antenna covers most of the 13cm band here. The fine tuning with the piece of copper gives a reflection of about -15dB when properly adjusted. The placement of the copper plate also tunes the center frequency of the antenna match. Hopes this helps Peter Rojsel SM7LEK peter@maxlab.lu.se From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:35 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail From: Anthony J Wanschura Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 10 Dec 1995 09:44:10 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Lines: 9 Sender: root@primenet.com Message-ID: <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com> X-Posted-By: ip211.msp.primenet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To those having experience with inverted-L antennas on 80 and 160 meters, what are your recommendations for radials? Should they be elevated, on the ground? What feedpoint impedence should I expect for a 1/4 wave inverted-L? Please reply directly to tonyjw@primenet.com. Thanks From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 11 Dec 1995 09:15:39 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 33 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aheeb$p7p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com>, Anthony J Wanschura writes: >To those having experience with inverted-L antennas on 80 and 160 >meters, what are your recommendations for radials? Should they be >elevated, on the ground? What feedpoint impedence should I expect for a >1/4 wave inverted-L? > > Hi Anthony, I've used dozens of L's on 160 over the years (since 1962), and so have many of my close friends. The best L's seem to be a resonant 1/4 wl on 160, but that makes 'em a little harder to feed on 80. The 3/8 wl 160 L's seem to have a little less signal on 160, but are much easier to feed on 80. We all have found that the ground system is very important. How the ground is done, elevated or buried, seems to make little or no difference. But the amount of wire you can put in for a ground is very important, plus keeping the antenna in the clear if you can. My friend K8GIJ used to be almost as loud as I was with a 60' L on a small city lot, and I was in the country with a full size 1/4 wave tower. He filled his small back yard with straight copper radials, and since they were short he tied them into fences, pipes and every other large metallic object. People used to accuse him of running high power after he worked hard on his ground system. Most antenna books give the feedpoint impedance data you are looking for. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!news.net99.net!science!news From: pat_bouldin@teleteam.com () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:59:09 GMT Organization: Science Network Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4agdf0$t5i@science-network.science.net> References: <49ponv$i65@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: tech_support@teleteam.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.198.110.25 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >Hi Russ, >In article , >alster@micron.net (Russ Ellsworth) writes: >>MIKE,Tom that depends on what you are trying to achieve. What is good >>enough?? >Ahhh, that's my interest. All the elevated data is based on NEC models >alone. I can't find a single real world verification by actual field >strength. Stuff like this keeps me from stealing hubcaps for a living! >73 Tom I need to add a comment. Don't think 120 radials is a religeous number. The FCC required that number for broadcast stations eons ago so that they could ensure advertisers were getting what they paid for: efficiency + specified power + pattern = coverage objective. In practical terms, shoot for 60% to 80% efficiency, which GENERALLY falls in the range of 16 to 30 radials with a reasonable distance. Beyond that number the law of dimenishing returns comes in. At that point it is far more preferable to increase power for the same effect. KM5L Patrick Bouldin : Gig 'em! TAMU '83 214/218-6000 : TeleTeam Internet : ARS KM5L _ _ ... ..._ _ pat_bouldin@teleteam.com : From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:38 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!upei.ca!usenet From: seeler@upei.ca (David C. Seeler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought - Couterpoises and ground Radials ? Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 08:44:32 GMT Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown, PEI Canada Lines: 37 Message-ID: <30c94b2c.3749917@137.149.3.1> References: <491qio$kh3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: Seeler@upei.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: slip60.slip.upei.ca X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 >In article , >mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (Mike, KN6IS) wrote: > >> In article , >> alster@micron.net (Russ Ellsworth) wrote: >> >> > snip.... >> > > (based on NEC models) that claims four elevated radials are sufficent or >> > > equal to 120 radials on the ground. Two commercial broadcast station >> > > proofs and my own measurements indicate four elevated radials are 5 to 7 >> > > dB down from 120 radials on the surface of the ground. >> > > >> > Tom, this sounds pretty good as evidence that the elevated radial theory >> > is pretty well justified. If I can put up 4 radials and come within one s >> > unit of 120 radials, I will do it every time. > > SNIP >> I seem to remember that a while back - Forrest Gehrke indicated that there were errors in the original paper that claimed that 60 raised counterpoise radials were equivalent to 120 radials on/in the ground. I seem to remember that he claimed that the error was there but that the information was being accepted by the various publishers and that it "now carries the aura of truth". (Dec 1991 email in rec.radio.amateur.misc - yes a while back :-)) At the time Ed Hare indicated that he would talk to Forrest re this and make the appropriate changes to ARRL pubs in the future. Not sure what happened then Regards, DAve Seeler, VY2DCS Regards, David Seeler, VY2DCS From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials so˙˙˙˙˙ Message-ID: <8B6C497.02CF000184.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 19:35:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: <4accp8$l72@newsbf02.news.aol.com> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 29 WT> 2.) The data provided was flawed. When currents in individual WT> radials at the common point were totaled, the radial currents did WT> not equal the net current at the base of the radiator. This is a WT> violation of Kirkoff's laws. This violation proves gross measurement WT> or equipment errors existed in the data. Doty first published this nonsense in QST Feb.1983 with a great fanfare from the editors about solving a mystery of 60 years. The data had the same flaw, undoubtedly due to the RF generator being grounded, thereby providing a ground connection for the missing current. I wrote to QST at the time and received back a comment from Gus Hall that unequal current (currents in center lead of the driving coax and sheath did not correspond) was not exceptional. He'd seen this many times in balanced 600 ohm lines. He sent a copy of my letter to Doty and I received a tirade from him but no explanation for the unequal current readings. Spent most of his words telling me of his vast experience and how long he'd been a ham. On that score he had nothing on me as I've held a license since 1936. I wasn't impressed. ;-) Nevertheless, Doty got an award from the Radio Club of America for this outstanding(!) work. They couldn't do arithmetic either. --k2bt * RM 1.3 02583 * Hell's full. The damned are now working in Tech Support. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials so˙˙˙˙˙ Date: 13 Dec 1995 13:23:31 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 2 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4an5n3$ceq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ammp8$6vm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader What's wrong with the server, yours or mine? That was supposed to be a privite E-mail. ooops From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials so˙˙˙˙˙ Date: 13 Dec 1995 09:08:40 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 45 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ammp8$6vm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <8B6C497.02CF000184.uuout@cencore.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Forrest In article <8B6C497.02CF000184.uuout@cencore.com>, forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) writes: > >Doty first published this nonsense in QST Feb.1983 with a >great fanfare from the editors about solving a mystery >of 60 years. The data had the same flaw, undoubtedly due >to the RF generator being grounded, thereby providing a >ground connection for the missing current. Gosh, someone else caught that error. I wrote also. The response I got was that was because the radials weren't collecting ground currentrs or some such non-sense. It amazes me that people without a basic understanding of how an antenna works try to re-write standards, and that editors fail to catch obvious errors! >I wrote to QST at the time and received back a comment from >Gus Hall that unequal current (currents in center lead of the >driving coax and sheath did not correspond) was not exceptional. >He'd seen this many times in balanced 600 ohm lines. So have I, it's called common mode or parallel feedline currents. It causes the feedline to become another part of the system that radiates. You should have asked if a feedline *without* equal and opposite currents radiates or becomes part of the radiating antenna. I bet he would have flunked the test. >He sent >a copy of my letter to Doty and I received a tirade from him >but no explanation for the unequal current readings. >Spent most of his words telling me of his vast experience and >how long he'd been a ham. On that score he had nothing on me >as I've held a license since 1936. I wasn't impressed. ;-) I received a similar response, along with a claim that I was the only one who didn't understand the meaning of the article. >Nevertheless, Doty got an award from the Radio Club of America >for this outstanding(!) work. They couldn't do arithmetic either. Oh well. Be honest now. Anyone that makes 10,000 meaningless measurements deserves an award. Perhaps in the form of a rolled up pointed paper hat? 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!oitnews.harvard.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!fas-news.harvard.edu!usenet From: winnie@w.imap.itd.umich.edu (Shawn M. Winnie) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: AM Improvement? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 18:06:04 GMT Organization: Shott Capital Management Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4ahrub$sa0@decaxp.harvard.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slippp2-10.fas.harvard.edu I recall seeing a small, relatively cheap mutual inductor coil for improving AM reception in some specialty catalog. Since I now live in Boston and would really like to pull in WJR (760 kHz-Detroit), I'd be willing to drop a few dollars on a canned solution. (My wife has already nixed the idea of winding a two foot ferric core...) If anyone knows of such availability for such a device, I'd appreciate hearing about it. (May not help, though, I think there's a 1kW station on 760 kHz on a mountain right between me and the Fisher building.) *********************************************************************** Shawn M. Winnie (617) 776-2963 (Home) Shott Capital Management (617) 946-3738 (@SCM) This message should not be construed as representing the position or opinion of Shott Capital Management. The Microsoft Network is granted a non-exclusive license to re-distribute the above material. Doesn't look like it matters after all.... From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet From: rfreeman@earthlink.net (Richard Freeman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Another MFJ control shaft broken - mfj.jpg (0/1) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:13:30 GMT Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. Lines: 7 Message-ID: <30cc5566.1169188@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tsb-oc-05.earthlink.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Is there anyone else who has had the shaft of their antenna tuner break. I have a MfJ Differential T Tuner Mod. 986, and the shaft from the roller inductor broke at the race where the bearing go. I was wondering if this was an isolated event or is it the reason they changed the design of this part. I have included an attachment with a picture of the break. Please Email me at rfreeman@earthlink.net. -Richard, KB6CEA From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet From: rfreeman@earthlink.net (Richard Freeman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Another MFJ control shaft broken - mfj.jpg (1/1) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:13:31 GMT Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. Lines: 169 Message-ID: <30cc58ab.2013550@mail.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tsb-oc-05.earthlink.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 begin 644 mfj.jpg M_]C_X``02D9)1@`!`0```0`!``#_VP!#``@&!@<&!0@'!P<)"0@*#!0-#`L+ M#!D2$P\4'1H?'AT:'!P@)"XG("(L(QP<*#*Q+>=P>) M;L?;:OBKN1/?%';XW3,4Q%/FJ8^>HW+QZNIRKW#S1QV9PF*Q*.+P;>53E4XMK[113VTW9IW5$:B/6? 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MA$)LK_V)?S0\%_O'_47%@``````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````````````````````````````````XDY;K/D,^FW9PX_D[% MM:[+>/7--6HC6IJC7B/.HB(C]NH>G2W)W*.E_R)>SS]7OZ;D?WCVL>QWH/%IO18X.JW%ZW-JYVYN1\5 M$S$S'^4^>H_J!QT[?Z$_F\Z:_P!58O\`94H_^1+V>?J]_3^K<_\`%F[Q+O$0ZYZCLV>ELF*XFBBK7O*M M[[::?CF=1YG[LN0_IN1_>'Y$O9Y^KW]-R/[Q55W MQ'*876O3EG%R\:Y;Q;\[KF8W53L1C=?\S;Z/LV, M>S%.5?N35[N:HFC<:WW3$;])FF-;W._P7/Q_L_Z8XK#HQ,'C:K-BC?;3&3=G MUF9]9JWZS+%Y;V7='17;I[:=YE^(B/V17$?*//X1]`<=9O)9O) M7/>9N5=OS$S,175,Q3OUU'I'[(8KK_\`(E[//U>_IN1_>'Y$O9Y^KW]-R/[P M#V)?S0\%_O'_`%%Q8#7\)PG'=.ZJ:I\U3,SYF9 M\RV````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` &````/__9 ` end From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:50 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!nntp2.cerf.net!pelican.com!grian!morris From: morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Mike Morris) Subject: Re: Antenna for TV channel 28 Message-ID: <1995Dec11.080806.26115@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> Organization: College Park Software, Altadena, CA References: <49po4b$577@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:08:06 GMT Lines: 24 Bill Harwood writes: >Try a small UHF yagi. A local radio shack or TV store will probably >have one set up for the right frequency. If this is a booster or >translator station try contacting your local booster organization. >Good Luck Check the local TV store - not Radio Shack. Ask to see their Winegard (sp?) catalog. Their product line includes single-channel (i.e. optimized) antennas, as well as compromise antennas for all-VHF, or All-UHF, or both. Thay make good stuff - I've got a VHF-UHF that I purchased in 1966 up on the roof, and it's still working fine. I varnish the insulators every other year, and replace the feedline every 5 years. A friend back east has two of the single-channel antennas and a compromise VHF and a compromise UHF all up at 30 feet and a 4-way combiner to a single feedline and it works excellently. -- --- Mike Morris morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us #include I have others, but this works the best. This message assembled from 100% recycled electrons (and pixels). From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:51 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bighorn.accessnv.com!usenet From: mishmash@anv.net (Charles J. Mishmash) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees Date: 12 Dec 1995 04:50:43 GMT Organization: accessnv.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4aj1n3$dld@bighorn.accessnv.com> References: <48veer$kg2@news.tamu.edu> <818148838.12251@pinetree.microserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp027.anv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 In article <818148838.12251@pinetree.microserve.com>, jackl@pinetree.microserve.com says... > > g-taylor4@tamu.edu (Greg Taylor) wrote: > >>Have seen some references to just throwing wires through trees >>without insulators etc.....wonder if anybody has any rough parameters >>on potential loss etc of this practice. > I have used 12 gauge plastic insulated wire as a full wave 80 meter delta loop shot over the top of a 70 foot Ash tree with a bow and weighted arrow. Simply let the wire lay over the apex of the tree, then tied nylon line to the corners about 10 feet above ground and stretched the bottom of the triangle between two trees. Worked DXCC in one season with this arrangement. Hardly noticed any SWR deviations in bad weather. Kids loved to impress the neighbor kids at night when they would play Darth Vader with 4 foot flouresant lamps as swords while dad blasted the DX on CW. Give it a try, it works. Good Luck Charlie AA7NQ From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!darkblue.demon.co.uk From: Gareth Edwards Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Apartment antennas Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 22:59:38 GMT Organization: no fixed abode Lines: 17 Message-ID: <818722778snz@darkblue.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: Gareth@darkblue.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: darkblue.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.30 Does anyone have any sensible suggestions on the best way to get into amateur radio when I live on the first floor on a 4 story block of flats, surrounded by the same height of flats for about 3 miles around? I should get my licence through in the New Year and I'd like to get on the air ASAP. Do I have to go /P? A rooftop antenna is also not ideal. Any thoughts or suggestions welcome. Cheers, Gareth -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ | Gareth Edwards | Gareth@darkblue.demon.co.uk | | Edinburgh, | Home of Edinburgh Beige Cricket Club | | Scotland | PGP public key available on request | ------------------------------------------------------------------ From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:53 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: wdzeares@ix.netcom.com(W. Dennis Zeares ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: artificial ground Date: 10 Dec 1995 20:19:24 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4affcc$2hi@cloner3.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dfw14-20.ix.netcom.com Anyone have experience with the MFJ artificial ground. How about opinions and ideas about "ground" for a second floor apt. dweller??? send e-mail direct: wdzeares@ix.netcom.com Thanks 73's Dennis K3ETS From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!baack Organization: University of Maine System Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:55:23 EST From: Message-ID: <95345.145523BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: backpackable 2m homebrew? Lines: 11 Hello all, I am looking for a "simple" and I stress simple design for a quick and dirty 2 meter yagi. 2-5 elements nothing really fancy just enough to get a decent signal out using a handheld. My perfect example is something similar to the designs that radio shack put out in their "Radio" magazine for a 440 antenna 8 ele. Works GREAT realy easy to operate and construct. Any information would greatly be appreciated.. Thanks, J N1RWY ***looking forward to Mountain top Field Day!!****** From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:55 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!iol!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!iglou!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: balanced antenna tuner(s) X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <4a2er4$rmb@chnews.ch.intel.com> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:28:43 GMT Lines: 16 I remember seeing one like that in QST many years ago. It had a belt between the roller inductors and used ganged capacitors. A balun was used on the transmitter side. This is a good idea but never got off the ground. Seems to me like Palomar tried it once but discontinued it for some reason. Cecil A. Moore~ (cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com) wrote: : Has anybody ever tried taking two identical antenna tuners and using one : for one side of a balanced transmission line and using the other tuner : for the other side of the transmission line? One possible schematic for : my balanced antenna tuner looks like two pi-network coaxial tuners. : 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:56 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!rohrwerk From: rohrwerk@netcom.com (John Seboldt) Subject: Re: balanced antenna tuner(s) Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <4a2er4$rmb@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4abo5c$3rd@crash.microserve.net> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 01:58:23 GMT Lines: 33 Sender: rohrwerk@netcom16.netcom.com jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: > cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote: >>Has anybody ever tried taking two identical antenna tuners and using >>one for one side of a balanced transmission line and using the other >>tuner for the other side of the transmission line? One possible >>schematic for my balanced antenna tuner looks like two pi-network >>coaxial tuners. ... >BTW, I've run across two guys on the air who are using balanced Pi's >fed with a balun. I didn't have a chance to ask about any tests they >might have performed though. >73, >Jack WB3U Well, I have used a balanced L net -- 2 roller inductors in shunt, a variable cap in shunt, and a balun on the input. The QST article a while back about the "Balanced Balanced Antenna Tuner" was my inspiration. I am now tentatively of the opinion that any tuner configuration with a balun on the input (and floating from ground) will give you as good a simluation of balanced feed as you can get short of a link-coupled transmatch. I've been using the SPC circuit with the balun on the input, for extra selectivity and help in rejecting local broadcast stations. : John Seboldt rohrwerk@netcom.com / CW: It don't mean a thing : K0JD... Minneapolis, MN / if it ain't got that swing! : My R2/T2 station described in / Di dah, di dah, di dah, di dah... > http://www.lehigh.edu/lists/qrp-l/k0jd/index.html < From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: balanced antenna tuner(s) Date: 10 Dec 1995 10:47:08 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 26 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aevds$nj6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <30c94b2c.3749917@137.149.3.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi All, I have areal problem with the idea that moving a balun to the input of ANY tuner does much to reliably change the choking mode (common mode) stresses or impedance requirements of a balun. The problem really consists of two seperate issues. One is the common mode problem, the other is the out of phase (transmisssion line mode) problem. Of these, the common mode problem is the most difficult one to handle, and it's the thing that causes radiation. Moving the balun with an unbalanced network will do absolutely nothing under any condition to improve things here. We covered that very well in another thread a few weeks ago and we all reached agreement on that point. We didn't cover the balanced network tuner, and probably should have. With that type of tuner, my understanding is moving the balun to the input results in an unpredictable change in choking mode balun requirements. It can get better, stay the same, or get worse. I can't think of any circuit that is as reliable as a low capacitance link, with a fully ground independent secondary. The link system is the best insurance of balanced line currents at the tuner output, and lowest common mode current at that point. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sandia.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!lynx.unm.edu!bubba.NMSU.Edu!pc-thooker.psl.nmsu.edu!thooker From: thooker@psl.nmsu.edu (Tracy Hooker) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: BUTTERNUT VERTICAL manual wanted... Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:32:43 Organization: Physical Science Laboratory / NMSU Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: pc-thooker.nmsu.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Hi, I am looking for a manual for a butternut vertical. The one I have has several large coils at the bottom, and along the vertical aluminum radiator is a wire. People familur with the antenna know which one, I am sure. It does have the additional band kit, I believe for 40m. Please let me know if you have a manual, and I will pay for reproduction costs. Thanks, Tracy KA5ECS From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens From: buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Car AM antennas to 2m? Date: 8 Dec 1995 19:49:25 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Has anyone tried modifying an ordinary AM car antenna for use with 2m FM? I would be interested to know what the results were, and what modifications need to be made. -- Brian Buydens There was a young poet named Dan, Department of Computing Services Whose poetry never would scan. University of Saskatchewan When told this was so, email: Brian.Buydens@usask.ca He said, "Yes, I know. VE5RDV From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:00 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.PBI.net!agis!news3.noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 21:42:04 GMT Lines: 12 Sender: slwork@netcom2.netcom.com Brian Buydens (buydens@duke.usask.ca) wrote: : Has anyone tried modifying an ordinary AM car antenna for use with 2m FM? : I would be interested to know what the results were, and what modifications : need to be made. The obvious thing would be to lop off of third of it, since it is a quarter-wave on the 3m FM broadcast band. However, you (also obvious) don't want to transmit with this unless you have some provision for adjusting SWR. Typically these cheap antennas don't have such provision for fine-tuning their length. Also, they are typically mounted on the fender of the car which makes for a bad ground plane. For reception, it might work OK if your transmitter is vertically polarized, though. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:01 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!news.ossi.com!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!wa2ise From: wa2ise@netcom.com (Robert Casey) Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m? Message-ID: Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) References: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 22:30:29 GMT Lines: 12 Sender: wa2ise@netcom17.netcom.com In article <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) writes: >Has anyone tried modifying an ordinary AM car antenna for use with 2m FM? >I would be interested to know what the results were, and what modifications >need to be made. > About 15 years ago I did this in a 72 Pinto. But I just took a piece of 75 ohm coax with BNC at one end and soldered a female motorola connector, and connected the AM car antenna to it. And it worked! I probably by accident hit on a reasonable combination of coax lengths and length of antenna. The length of75 ohm coax was around 20 inches, who knows the impedance or length of car antenna coax, and the antenna itself was about 1/4 wave at 2m. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:02 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!nntp2.cerf.net!pelican.com!grian!morris From: morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Mike Morris) Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m? Message-ID: <1995Dec12.102046.19770@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> Organization: College Park Software, Altadena, CA References: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:20:46 GMT Lines: 31 wa2ise@netcom.com (Robert Casey) writes: >In article <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) writes: >>Has anyone tried modifying an ordinary AM car antenna for use with 2m FM? >>I would be interested to know what the results were, and what modifications >>need to be made. >> >About 15 years ago I did this in a 72 Pinto. But I just took a piece of >75 ohm coax with BNC at one end and soldered a female motorola >connector, and connected the AM car antenna to it. And it worked! >I probably by accident hit on a reasonable combination of coax lengths >and length of antenna. The length of75 ohm coax was around 20 inches, >who knows the impedance or length of car antenna coax, and the antenna >itself was about 1/4 wave at 2m. Contact your local PD radio shop and ask them about disguise antennas. The "big name" in disguise antennas is Stico, but I do not remember where they are located nor can I lay my hands on my copy of their catalog. Maybe your local 2-way shop can point you in the right direction so you can get their catalog - they have matching devices that will couple low band (30-50mhz), high band(150-172) and UHF(450-470) to a regular car radio antenna. They can also supply replacement stock-looking antennas built for VHF (but not for my '67 El Camino or '73 Dodge). de WA6ILQ -- --- Mike Morris morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us #include I have others, but this works the best. This message assembled from 100% recycled electrons (and pixels). From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:03 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet From: Marcellino Gemelli Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:38:21 +0100 Organization: I.Net S.p.A. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <30CBFC0D.5DC4@ieee.org> References: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> <4ac8ff$53f@news1.wolfe.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d) To: Alan Burgstahler CC: marcellino.gemelli@st.com, buydens@duke.usask.ca For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz, 10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to pass unnoticed. They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes during transmission of the UHF. Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just to let you know it's done. Marcellino Gemelli marcel@mbox.vol.it m.gemelli@ieee.org From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:04 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet From: Marcellino Gemelli Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:38:43 +0100 Organization: I.Net S.p.A. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <30CBFC23.166B@ieee.org> References: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> <4ac8ff$53f@news1.wolfe.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d) To: Alan Burgstahler CC: marcellino.gemelli@st.com, buydens@duke.usask.ca For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz, 10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to pass unnoticed. They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes during transmission of the UHF. Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just to let you know it's done. Marcellino Gemelli marcel@mbox.vol.it m.gemelli@ieee.org From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet From: Marcellino Gemelli Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:38:59 +0100 Organization: I.Net S.p.A. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <30CBFC33.24A4@ieee.org> References: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> <4ac8ff$53f@news1.wolfe.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d) To: Alan Burgstahler CC: marcellino.gemelli@st.com, buydens@duke.usask.ca For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz, 10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to pass unnoticed. They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes during transmission of the UHF. Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just to let you know it's done. Marcellino Gemelli marcel@mbox.vol.it m.gemelli@ieee.org From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet From: Marcellino Gemelli Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:39:23 +0100 Organization: I.Net S.p.A. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <30CBFC4B.7322@ieee.org> References: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> <4ac8ff$53f@news1.wolfe.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d) To: Alan Burgstahler CC: buydens@duke.usask.ca For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz, 10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to pass unnoticed. They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes during transmission of the UHF. Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just to let you know it's done. Marcellino Gemelli marcel@mbox.vol.it m.gemelli@ieee.org From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:08 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet From: Marcellino Gemelli Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:39:54 +0100 Organization: I.Net S.p.A. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <30CBFC6A.5DB0@ieee.org> References: <4aa4s5$glp@tribune.usask.ca> <4ac8ff$53f@news1.wolfe.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d) To: wa6awd@wolfenet.com CC: buydens@duke.usask.ca For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz, 10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to pass unnoticed. They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes during transmission of the UHF. Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just to let you know it's done. Marcellino Gemelli marcel@mbox.vol.it m.gemelli@ieee.org From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: drted@ix.netcom.com(Ted Viens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Coax Spacing Date: 10 Dec 1995 15:20:18 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 45 Message-ID: <4aetri$o83@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> References: <4adcd2$67l@news.wco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-hou7-22.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Dec 10 7:20:18 AM PST 1995 In <4adcd2$67l@news.wco.com> elewis@dsp.com (Edward Lewis) writes: > >I have 3 runs of coax running from my garage roof to my shack. I have >them tied together in a bundle. Will this cause any problems, Should >they be seperated with space between the runs? The antennas are HF, >220mhz, and 440mhz. >73 Ed Lewis KE6KEP > Such a simple question, of course with no simple answer. Above all is the simple matter of length. Theoretically, coaxial cables are inherently self sheilding. Yeah, sure, but coax is a common example of where reality bites. If we are talking less than 100', especially less than 50', then there are more important things to worry about. Hmmm, most of my following remarks actually dealt with a closed system convienently forgetting that hams primarily use coax to feed nearby antennas. Since the isolation at the antennas is 40 or more dB worse than the cheesiest coax, your physical layout becomes a minor importance. So, I will just throw out my nominal rules for running coax. Do not tightly bundle long runs of coax together. If anyone insists on an orderly run of coax, space each cable at least one cable diameter apart. If the cable cannot be seen, bundle it at wide intervals and let it loosely splay about between wrappings. If you must be neat and can afford plastic or metal ducting, buy ducting large enough to let the cables run loosely within it. Try to keep the cable at less than 25% duct capacity. Since this is a special situation where three widely spaced bands are being used, I would have approached it very differently. Rather than three runs of very good and moderately expensive coax, I would buy or make a couple of good triplexers and spend the bulk of the money on a single run of larger coax (perhaps hardline, budget permitting.) I would also run an additional length of cheap RG-8 for testing and contigency needs and a control and power cable to run T-R switches and antenna mounted preamps on the VHF and UHF antennas. For a reality check, I have been too lazy to become a ham, so I only use my antennas for monitoring. My antennas are on the roof and the coax runs are less than 50 feet. I use the loosely splayed about technique of cable running within the attic. Worst of all, my lightning and grounding techniques are dismal. Which backhandedly brings up the area where you really should focus your concerns and efforts... -- Bye... Ted.. Deep in the Heart of the Armpits of Houston, Texas... From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.wco.com!news From: elewis@dsp.com (Edward Lewis) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Coax Spacing Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:17:25 GMT Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4adcd2$67l@news.wco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.4.121.245 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I have 3 runs of coax running from my garage roof to my shack. I have them tied together in a bundle. Will this cause any problems, Should they be seperated with space between the runs? The antennas are HF, 220mhz, and 440mhz. 73 Ed Lewis KE6KEP From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Coax Spacing Date: 11 Dec 1995 09:15:25 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 21 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ahedt$p7n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4adcd2$67l@news.wco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4adcd2$67l@news.wco.com>, elewis@dsp.com (Edward Lewis) writes: >I have 3 runs of coax running from my garage roof to my shack. I have >them tied together in a bundle. Will this cause any problems, Should >they be seperated with space between the runs? The antennas are HF, >220mhz, and 440mhz. >73 Ed Lewis Hi Ed, While there are some critical non-amateur applications that may be affected, in the practical world of Ham radio it will make no difference at all. The only concern would be if a line was not properly terminated, and carried parallel currents. It's always a good idea to install a good choke balun at the antenna end of the HF feedline before it joins the other cables in the bundle. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: stoskopf@tri.NET (Lawrence Stoskopf) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Combining TV antennas Date: 12 Dec 95 03:46:53 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 23 Message-ID: <199512120340.VAA22829@home.tri.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu This probably should be on another forum, but I lurk here and TV antennas really aren't that much different than what is discussed here. First: what is inside the cheap TV F-conn splitters. They don't seem to act as combiners, at least the ones I have. Second: From here in Salina, Kansas I have Ch 6 at 15 mi. NW, Ch 9 at 60 mi W, Ch 3, 8, 10, 12 at about 80 mi SSW, Ch 13 at 90 mi E, Ch 4 at 90 mi N. I have a large enough space in the attic with a clear shot everywhere, but not enough to rotate an antenna. I have tried multiple antennas with individual preamps (wideband MMICs) all combined, but when tropo comes up, the multiple signals through different antennas combining, i.e. Ch 9, 10, 12 all picking up Ch 12 and combining out of phase give some interesting pictures. Short of making narrow band amplifiers, ala the W5 in Popular Electronics some 30 years ago, anyone have any questions. FYIW: I did get a sheet of aluminized mylar covered styrofoam from the hardware store and made a great corner reflector for the UHF stations. Thanks Lawrence E. Stoskopf N0UU From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas Date: 12 Dec 1995 10:44:48 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 46 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ak81g$1uf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <199512120340.VAA22829@home.tri.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Lawrence, In article <199512120340.VAA22829@home.tri.net>, stoskopf@tri.NET (Lawrence Stoskopf) writes: >This probably should be on another forum, but I lurk here and TV antennas >really aren't that much different than what is discussed here. > >First: what is inside the cheap TV F-conn splitters. They don't seem to >act as combiners, at least the ones I have. Usually they are magic T's. They have a ct coil with a resistor from end to end (r=2RL) and a step up transformer that connects from the ct to the input. The two output ports connect to each end of the resisor in parallel with the full winding of the center tapped coil. They work equally well as combiners! >Second: From here in Salina, Kansas I have Ch 6 at 15 mi. NW, Ch 9 at 60 mi >W, Ch 3, 8, 10, 12 at about 80 mi SSW, Ch 13 at 90 mi E, Ch 4 at 90 mi N. I >have a large enough space in the attic with a clear shot everywhere, but not >enough to rotate an antenna. I have tried multiple antennas with individual >preamps (wideband MMICs) all combined, but when tropo comes up, the multiple >signals through different antennas combining, i.e. Ch 9, 10, 12 all picking >up Ch 12 and combining out of phase give some interesting pictures. Short >of making narrow band amplifiers, ala the W5 in Popular Electronics some 30 >years ago, anyone have any questions. I assume you are following the correct proceedures in stacking the antennas. 1. They are identical designs. 2. They are stacked along the same centerline. That centerline is an exact right angle to the station you desire. 3. They are both fed with identical fed systems, including length, from the combiner to the antennas. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:15 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!joesbar.cc.vt.edu!ranck From: ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas Date: 12 Dec 1995 14:32:18 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia Lines: 37 Message-ID: <4ak3pj$mkv@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <199512120340.VAA22829@home.tri.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: joesbar.cc.vt.edu Lawrence Stoskopf (stoskopf@tri.NET) wrote: : This probably should be on another forum, but I lurk here and TV antennas : really aren't that much different than what is discussed here. I lurk here also, but I maintain and occasionally distribute a TV antenna FAQ on other lists. Your questions are beyond the FAQ though. : First: what is inside the cheap TV F-conn splitters. They don't seem to : act as combiners, at least the ones I have. The ones I've seen taken apart were just wire balun transformers. They should funtion as combiners, but I would be cautious about running amplified signals into one. You may have some DC component on the cables that will cause the two amps to interfere with each other. I don't think the simple splitters from Radio Shack, etc. would isolate that. : Second: From here in Salina, Kansas I have Ch 6 at 15 mi. NW, Ch 9 at 60 mi : W, Ch 3, 8, 10, 12 at about 80 mi SSW, Ch 13 at 90 mi E, Ch 4 at 90 mi N. I : have a large enough space in the attic with a clear shot everywhere, but not : enough to rotate an antenna. I have tried multiple antennas with individual : preamps (wideband MMICs) all combined, but when tropo comes up, the multiple : signals through different antennas combining, i.e. Ch 9, 10, 12 all picking : up Ch 12 and combining out of phase give some interesting pictures. Short : of making narrow band amplifiers, ala the W5 in Popular Electronics some 30 : years ago, anyone have any questions. What you need to do is use some notch filters to drop out, for example, the Ch 12 signal from the Ch 9 antenna. Single channel filters are a standard item with cable TV suppliers. Are you using channel cut antennas for those single channel directions (6 and 9)? That might help, but a few filters will probably be cheaper than new antennas. -- ***************************************************************************** * Bill Ranck +1-540-231-3951 ranck@vt.edu * * Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University, Computing Center * ***************************************************************************** From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!usenet From: "Roy D." Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: 10 Dec 1995 19:58:51 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4afe5r$1587@hearst.cac.psu.edu> References: <4acl2r$mvg@express.ior.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tsppp36.cac.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) pfeuffer@on-ramp.ior.com (Joe Pfeuffer) wrote: >Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated. > Any electrical supply will have 'terminal grease' for aluminum connectors. It is required for applications like AL service entrance cable connections. Some sell it in squeeze bottles and some will even give you several 'ketchup packs' of the stuff for free. 73 -- Roy Derryberry, KD3LZ Member: Aircraft Owners and Pilot's Association (red127@psu.edu) American Radio Relay League Utility Workers Union of America If I'd known I was gonna live this long, I'd taken better care of myself. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!news.net99.net!news.corpcomm.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!hgea01.hgea.org!usenet From: Wayne Jones Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: 11 Dec 1995 01:41:43 GMT Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4ag28n$jon@hgea01.hgea.org> References: <4acl2r$mvg@express.ior.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp89.hgea.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Windows; U; 16bit) pfeuffer@on-ramp.ior.com (Joe Pfeuffer) wrote: >Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated. You can try NAPA for a product called Penetrox. Comes in a tube about the size of a small tube of toothpaste. Generally is hanging from a peg. Aloha from the 50th State! Wayne, NH6GJ From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!noc.near.net!llnews.ll.mit.edu!usenet From: kaufmann@ll.mit.edu (John Kaufmann) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 20:22:42 GMT Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Laboratory Lines: 10 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4ai3to$58f@llnews.ll.mit.edu> References: <4acl2r$mvg@express.ior.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1 pfeuffer@on-ramp.ior.com (Joe Pfeuffer) wrote: >Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated. > >73 > One such product is GB Ox-garde, available in hardware stores (about $5 for a small tube). John Kaufmann W1FV kaufmann@ll.mit.edu From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:19 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: ricklutz@aol.com (RICK LUTZ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: 11 Dec 1995 22:43:44 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 3 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aitpg$h8t@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ai3to$58f@llnews.ll.mit.edu> Reply-To: ricklutz@aol.com (RICK LUTZ) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com if you only need a small amount try running down a power company truck and asking for a teaspoon of nolox, they should be happy to give you that much just besure to have a container handy From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk From: Ian G3SEK Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:23:09 +0000 Organization: IFWtech Lines: 20 Message-ID: <875579613wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> References: <4acl2r$mvg@express.ior.com> Reply-To: G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Tue, 12 Dec 95 12:55:24 GMT] X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Tue, 12 Dec 95 12:56:10 GMT] In article: <4acl2r$mvg@express.ior.com> pfeuffer@on-ramp.ior.com (Joe Pfeuffer) writes: : : Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated. There is a list of products with brief descriptions on the ARRL BBS, also available at ftp.oak.oakland.edu and several offical mirror sites: Look for /pub/hamradio/arrl/infoserver/tis/grease.txt "/tis/" stands for Technical Information Service. There's a lot more interesting technical material from ARRL in that same directory. -- 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!news.funet.fi!news.tele.fi!news.inet.fi!usenet From: Juha.Kupiainen@enermet.fi (Juha Kupiainen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Create antennas manufacturer address? Date: 11 Dec 1995 08:18:13 GMT Organization: Enermet Oy Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4agpg5$3q7@kuikka.inet.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: kupiaju.enermet.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 Hello! I can't find address for Create antenna manufacturer. Fax number is also missing! And if they have E-mail address that would very helpful. 73 de Juha / OH4JK From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:22 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slay From: slay@netcom.com (Sandy Lynch) Subject: Re: Create antennas manufacturer address? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <4agpg5$3q7@kuikka.inet.fi> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:13:40 GMT Lines: 21 Sender: slay@netcom3.netcom.com Juha Kupiainen (Juha.Kupiainen@enermet.fi) wrote: : Hello! : I can't find address for Create antenna manufacturer. : Fax number is also missing! And if they have E-mail address : that would very helpful. : 73 de Juha / OH4JK Create Design K.K. 4-8, Asano-cho Kawasaki-ku, Kawasaki-shi Kanagawa-ken, Japan 210 Tel: 81-44-333-6681 Fax: 81-44-333-6598 Cheers Sandy WA6BXH/7J1ABV Portland, Oregon slay@netcom.com From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:22 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.mis.net!usenet From: jgkamm@mis.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: dipole in the attic? will it work? Date: 11 Dec 1995 23:19:46 GMT Organization: Mikrotec Internet Services, Inc. (MISNet) Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4aieai$afk@netnews.mis.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp14.mis.net X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) i'm thinking of mounting a cushman multi-freq. dipole in my attic (2 story house brick veneer asbestas shingles) think it will work ok? any advice? From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!usenet From: kuhl@acsu.buffalo.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work? Date: 12 Dec 1995 18:08:09 GMT Organization: NCEER Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4akge9$ne0@azure.acsu.buffalo.edu> References: <4aieai$afk@netnews.mis.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: electroman.eng.buffalo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII NNTP-Posting-User: kuhl X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 In article <4aieai$afk@netnews.mis.net>, jgkamm@mis.net says... >i'm thinking of mounting a cushman multi-freq. dipole in my attic (2 story house > brick veneer asbestas shingles) >think it will work ok? any advice? I use a 2 meter 1/4 wave in my attic with great results. What George said about placemaent might be true but I just moved mine around untill I got the best signal. Kevin KB2WLS From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!nexus.interealm.com!usenet From: "George J. Molnar" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work? Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:46:25 -0700 Organization: ICG/MagNET (303) 745-9205 Lines: 25 Message-ID: <30CD95C1.452E@nexus.interealm.com> References: <4aieai$afk@netnews.mis.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp200.interealm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win95; I) jgkamm@mis.net wrote: > > i'm thinking of mounting a cushman multi-freq. dipole in my attic (2 story house brick veneer asbestas shingles) > think it will work ok? any advice? Sure, it'll WORK, but performance will almost certainly be less than the same antenna out of doors. Depending on the materials in the roof, your radiation efficiency may be reduced substantially. Also, you may encounter some RF in the shack due to coupling to house wiring, etc. The best bet for attic antennas is to mount the dipole as straight as possible, as far from ANYTHING (rafters, wiring, etc) else as you can. Run a minimum of coax to the shack, and try to take the cable away from the antenna at as close to a right angle as you can get. Before the flames start -- no, none of the above advice is MANDATORY, but in my experience, each point helps. Good luck & 73! -- George J. Molnar Highlands Ranch, Colorado Packet: KF2T@N0QCU.#NECO.CO.USA.NOAM http://www.interealm.com/p/gmolnar/index.html From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!news.dacom.co.kr!news.netins.net!usenet From: crcarlson@netins.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work? Date: 13 Dec 1995 04:22:31 GMT Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA Lines: 15 Message-ID: <0099AC68.F3102AB9@netins.net> References: <4aieai$afk@netnews.mis.net> Reply-To: crcarlson@netins.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net In article <4aieai$afk@netnews.mis.net>, jgkamm@mis.net writes: >i'm thinking of mounting a cushman multi-freq. dipole in my attic (2 story house brick veneer asbestas shingles) >think it will work ok? any advice? > > Greetings. Heres my $.05 worth. Whether or not an antenna will "work" is determined by actual usage. If I were you I'd put that puppy up there and work the heck out of it! My most thrilling contact as a novice, (circa 1971) was a night time 40 meter c.w. contact with OA5NBO using an old rock bound Hallicrafters HT-40 and a reciever that had all the filtering of box of cornflakes. My, ahem, "antenna" was one of those old Hygain metal sticks, HT-something, that had as its ground a, count'em, 3 foot ground rod. Today twenty plus years later, I'd tell myself that it COULDN'T work. Fact is it was my first DX contact. So go for it! I'll look for you on the bands. Let us know how it works. 73 de WB0FDJ From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:27 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: jeffa@ix.netcom.com(Jeff Anderson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: directional couplers Date: 10 Dec 1995 15:02:42 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 81 Message-ID: <4aesqi$gtp@cloner3.netcom.com> References: <4a5ogp$124b@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4a72dm$lqi@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-pa9-18.ix.netcom.com Cecil, I thought you might be interested in another way of looking at the operation of directional couplers. I became interested in their operation about a year ago and came up with the following explanation. At that time I was testing out a directional coupler on the bench with a dummy load attached to it, and realized that at the wavelength I was experimenting with, I had essentially a "lumped element" circuit (this included the dummy load), rather than a transmission line circuit. Yet, the readings at the sampling ports behaved as expected. I didn't want to explain its operation in transmission line terms (forward and reflected waves) because I had no transmission line. So I set out to explain its operation in basic lumped element circuit analysis terms. If you analyze a typical circuit (see below) using standard circuit analysis techniques, you'll derive a set of equations characterizing the voltages at the sampling ports that are dependent solely upon the impedances at the 4 ports, not forward and reflected waves. ---\/\/\----o-------------u--------------.-----o---- VL | Rs IN -------mmmmmm---- | OUT | | | 1:n | | \ Vs | gnd | / RL | | gnd | \ | | | n:1 | / | | ---mmmmm------------ | gnd Va o---.----------n---------------o Vb gnd | | / / \ Rc \ Rc / / \ \ | | gnd gnd In this circuit Va and Vb are the sampling ports, and Rc is set to equal the characteristic impedance of the transmission line. I've set the load to be resistive, rather than include reactance, for ease of calculation. From the circuit the following equations can be derived: Vb = (Vs/(2n))((Rc - RL)/(Rs + RL)) Va = (Vs/(2n))((Rc + RL)/(Rs + RL)) Solving these two equations: Vb = Va(Rc - RL)/(Rc + RL) If we now measure these voltages and scale our voltmeter so that Va = 1 volt, then, if we measure Vb with the same scale, we get: Vb = (Rc - RL)/(Rc + RL) This happens to correspond to the definition of reflection coefficient for a purely resistive load (and in our case the transmission line impedance is set to be equal to Rc). Vb will range from 0 to 1 volt (Va = 1 volt). Using the definition of VSWR, we can calculate VSWR as follows: VSWR = (1 + |Vb|)/(1 - |Vb|). For instance, if Vb = 0.5 volts, VSWR = 3. And this is just what you'll see on typical SWR meters - a VSWR value of 3 is labeled at the meter's mid-scale (0.5 volts on a 1 volt full-scale meter). I don't know if this explanation is helpful at all, but I find it an interesting way to look at the operation of directional couplers. I think you can find a similar explanation in Hayward's "An Introduction to Radio Frequency Design". - Jeff, WA6AHL From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:28 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty QST Article Date: 13 Dec 1995 16:26:00 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4amuqo$1cna@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us I have two questions about the Doty article: 1) Is it really true that the radial return current *must* equal the current in the vertical rod? Isn't some of the return current diverted from the radials to the earth underneath by capacitive coupling, as Doty claims? Isn't there a potential difference between radials and the earth that would cause displacement currents to flow to ground and not through the measuring instrument? 2) Doesn't some of the radiator current return to ground well beyond the radial system? As a non-expert in this area, I would like to get your thoughts. Bill Sabin W0IYH From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:29 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!xband.ni.net!user From: blanton@ni.net (J. L. Blanton) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Extremely narrow-band antennas? Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 00:48:28 -0800 Organization: Network Intensive Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: xband.ni.net In article , hbaker@netcom.com (Henry Baker) wrote: > How would I go about building a very narrow-band antenna, say picking out > only 10 KHz in a 900 MHz band? Antennas usually aren't intentionally designed to be narrowband, but an electrically short antenna ends up that way when its reactance is matched to the transmission line's impedance. The shorter the antenna (i.e. the more inductive loading required) the narrower the bandwidth. Unfortunately, as the radiator is shortened the efficiency goes down, reducing the antenna's effectiveness on the desired signals. To reject interference while retaining a reasonable level of the desired signal you're probably better off using a normal antenna followed by a passive low-loss filter. Use a bandpass filter to pass the desired signal or a band reject filter to reject a specific interfering signal at a known frequency. 73, Lee, WA8YBT/6 Temecula, CA From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:30 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Feedpoint impedance of yagi Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 02:59:57 GMT Lines: 4 Sender: slwork@netcom23.netcom.com How does the feedpoint impedance of a yagi vary with the number of elements? For example, in a yagi designed for 3m reception (only), of 3-6 total elements, is the impedance close enough to the 72-ohm dipole impedance to just hook on a 75-ohm coax and run it to the receiver? From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!chi-news.cic.net!brutus.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet From: paulm@ultranet.com (Paul M) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: FOR SALE: Kenpro KR-5400 Az-El Rotor Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:45:12 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4af2r8$1mh@caesar.ultra.net> Reply-To: paulm@ultranet.com NNTP-Posting-Host: docutech.ultranet.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 FOR SALE: Kenpro KR-5400 Azimuth-Elevation rotor system $150 The control box and rotors are very similar to the Yaesu G-5400 system. Why am I selling this for such a miniscule price? The controller is not working. If you are good at troubleshooting electronics and want to get onto the amateur satellites, this could be your winter project. Elevation rotor is only 18 months old. Azimuth rotor is older. You'll also need to add some fresh hardware to the rotor brackets (nuts and bolts). UPS ground shipping included in price. Email only to paulm@ultranet.com From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.xnet.com!news-admin From: jerdptro@xnet.com (Jerry) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Force12 Antenna Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:27:57 GMT Organization: XNet - A Full Service Internet Provider - (708) 983-6064 Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4ajvkj$sfb@flood.xnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: n9vhw.xnet.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Am interested in hearing your comments on Force12 C-3 or C-4 and their benefits over trapped yagis like Mosley PRO 67C. Any one with first hand experience please send comments to : jerdptro@xnet.com Thanks N9VHW From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!interaccess!usenet From: rhstein@interaccess.com (Ronald H Steinberg) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Fully Remoting the Ten Tec 253 ant tuner Date: 11 Dec 1995 10:13:26 GMT Organization: Rent Com, Inc. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4ah086$r9d@nntp.interaccess.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d101.he.interaccess.com X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ I am about to put a Ten Tec 253 auto ant tuner up on the tower in a weather proff box. Has anyone tried to completly remote this unit? Any comment on the 253 tuner? RON K9IKZ From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news From: cdorn@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Chris Dorn) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Grounding problem with G5RV? Date: 13 Dec 1995 16:54:31 GMT Organization: University of Alberta Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4an0g7$h86@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: async3-7.remote.ualberta.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.2 Hello, I would appreciate some advice on the following. My antenna system has been a G5RV about 25ft. up, connected to about 8ft of RG8 coax. The center feedline portion of the antenna comes to just outside the window of the shack, where I then have the short length of coax coming through the window to my Kenwood AT200 manual tuner. I have used this system successfully with both my Drake Twins and a Kenwood TS520S. With these transceivers I have been able to tune all bands no problem. The difficulty began when I bought a Drake TR7 solid state unit. With the unit I could not tune 80m. Other bands are fine, but on 80m the SWR would shoot from 3:1 to 10:1 at times. The unit is fine on 80 into a dummy load. I thought it may be an RF feedback problem since the G5RV is not very resonant on 80. I thought that the tubes rigs with the extra tuning stage were maybe getting around the problem. I therefore connected a wire to ground stake to the antenna tuner, added 50ft of coax, and moved the rig away from the antenna. I can now get an SWR of about 1:9 to 1, but that is still somewhat dissapointing, and that's what I get with the tube rigs now. Before with the tube rigs I would get 1:1 to 1. The ground rod I am using is probably not very good, a rather thin stake about 2 to 3Ft down. I can't do much as far as a new ground rod until spring thaw. Any comments on this, and has anyone else had problems like this with a G5RV and solid state vs. tube rigs? Thanks, Chris VE6RDC From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: groundpole antenna Date: 12 Dec 1995 19:59:23 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4akmur$mvi@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us >Someone asked recently about the Groundpole antenna described by W6MUR in >the April 1959 QST. I don't know who you are as you dropped off the new >group before I could answer. It was I who ran across the article. The vertical poles are 1/4 wave and they are 1/2 wave apart at the lowest frequency band. The main attraction was its broadband response and low driving point impedance at the various harmonic frequencies. He used aluminum irrigation tubing (32 ft) for the verticals and wire for the horizontal. He used open wire feeder. The verticals were several feet into the ground. He showed how to combine multiple groundpoles to get gain and directivity in a limited space. It was the innovativeness that I found interesting. Bill Sabin W0IYH From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!atha!rwa From: rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: groundpole antenna Date: 12 Dec 1995 20:53:13 GMT Organization: Athabasca University Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4akq3p$ktf@aurora.cs.athabascau.ca> References: <4akmur$mvi@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: aupair.cs.athabascau.ca X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV) sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: >The vertical poles are 1/4 wave and they are 1/2 wave apart at the >lowest frequency band. This sounds eerily like a half-square. What am I missing? regards, Ross ve6pdq -- Ross Alexander, ve6pdq -- (403) 675 6311 -- rwa@cs.athabascau.ca From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!matlock.mindspring.com!mindspring.com!thompson From: thompson@mindspring.com (David Thompson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Groundpole antenna Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:55:03 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: thompson.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B] Someone asked recently about the Groundpole antenna described by W6MUR in the April 1959 QST. Sorry I don't know who you are as you dropped off the new group before I could answer. The groundpole antenna was a very innovative antenna in 1959 as the level of activity on 80 and 160 was not nearly as high as today. 160 Meters could not be widely used due to LORAN and day/night power limitations in the States and was generally not available elsewhere. The antenna is a grounded vertical system of one full wavelength. The closest comparison would be to a vertical Bi-Square with the mirror image being in the ground. This is why the antenna is bi-directional rather than omni directional. W1FB has another version in his Antenna book in an inverted V fashion each side being 1/2 wavelength. The problem with this antenna is that 135 foot elevation is required for 160 although 66 foot the sides for 80/75 are reasonable. Many have had good results with the inverted U or half quad. This antenna is close to omni on the fundamental with slight directivity end fire off the leg being fed. Either antenna must have an extensive ground system at each end and the two ground systems must be tied together with a wire. If you have the room---- put a groundpole and try it. Large contest stations could use towers as the ends or as a way to tie off the antenna ( 10 or 12 elevated radials, too.). I'll bet W6MUR knew he had a "killer" transmitting antenna! 73, Dave K4JRB From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:38 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.PBI.net!agis!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: rpmarkey@nbn.NET Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #588 Date: 9 Dec 95 20:59:30 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 20 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu (From: mjo120@mail.usask.ca (Sully O'Sullivan) Subject: is it possible to get on the net with a ham radio? hi there... apparently my uncle bought a modem which allows him to use his ham radio and get onto the net... does anyone have any kind of information on a system like this?) Your uncle is probably operating a packet radio TNC on VHF or perhaps HF and is accessing the internet through a gateway. There's quite of bit of that going on in the amateur community. The drawback is that packet is pretty much limited to 1200 baud on VHF in most areas. There are some 9600 baud and higher activity, mostly on backbone links. I doubt you would be happy utilizing a gateway instead of a full blown internet access connection, unless it was your only means of access. Not sure if you could even get e-mail access; mostly telnet and ftp. de Rick, KN3C From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!agis!news.MWCI.NET!usenet From: kb0lcj@mwci.net (Sean Heber) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space Subject: Hamfest, Radiofest, Computer Expo Date: 9 Dec 1995 04:26:13 GMT Organization: MidWest Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4ab355$ce5@hihat.mwci.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dbq-pm1-19.mwci.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17548 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13009 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22258 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11980 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95302 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32135 rec.radio.amateur.space:5894 There will be a Hamfest, Radiofest, Computer Expo in Dubuque, Iowa on Sept. 8, 1996! Check out http://galaxy.mwci.net/grarc/top.htm for more info, or E-Mail me! 73 Sean -- ---> <--- Sean Heber Ham Callsign: KB0LCJ --- E-Mail: Sysop@Galaxy.Mwci.Net OR kb0lcj@mwci.net WWW Page: http://galaxy.mwci.net Leave mail for Sysop on the Galaxy BBS: (319) 557-2430 telnet: galaxy.mwci.net ---> <--- From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!gwis.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!maas-neotek.com!news From: dlast@wintermute.co.uk (Dean Last) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help tuning 14AVQ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:35:22 GMT Organization: Wintermute Ltd, Scotland Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4af9e6$mun@Titania.wintermute.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: dlast.wintermute.co.uk X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 Does anybody have the tuning instructions for a 14AVQ antenna. I would be most grateful for them. Thanks in advance Dean GM4THP@GB7ABN ------------------------------------ Dean Last GM4THP dlast@wintermute.co.uk -------------------------------------- From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!warwick!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.roundabout.org!news.fido.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!serco-wr.demon.co.uk From: "Tim.C" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,uk.radio.amateur Subject: Re: IC706 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 11:50:58 GMT Organization: Serco Project Engineering Ltd Lines: 24 Message-ID: <818855458snz@serco-wr.demon.co.uk> References: <47n930$a3k$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> Reply-To: Tim@serco-wr.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: serco-wr.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.30 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17650 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22463 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95505 uk.radio.amateur:9608 This radio looks like exactly what I want (when I can afford it, and have got my A). But why do all these new rigs have to be mobile size !! I'd much rather have a big rig where the functions aren't hidden down menus and behind function buttons !! (Still want one that runs on 12v though. I like the idea of being able to run off batteries for portable work !) Tim.C Trainee BOFH --... ...-- -.. . --. --... - .- -.-. The above views (and spellings) are not necessarily those of my employer. GCC/IT/MU/S d? s++:--->+ a- C++(---$) U->+++ W++ N+++ w V PS+ PE Y-- PGP- t+ 5++ X++ R* tv++ b++ D++ G e++>++++(*) h* r+++ y** Geek v3.1 From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: DCOLLINS@FAB9.INTel.COM (DENIS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Increase wind rating of beam Date: 10 Dec 95 11:53:39 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9512101153.utk7712@FAB9.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Hi guys, Just aquired a used Mosley TA-33 jnr. The handbook with it says that it is ok up to wind speeds of 80 MPH. Its is good condition but I guess that the 80 MPH rating is no longer true. I heard that wooden dowels in the elements will increase strength- are they worth the extra weight? Any other way of strenghting up the beam? 73 + thx Denis From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.jersey.net!news.win.bright.net!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Roger A. Cox <75052.3037@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Increase wind rating of beam Date: 11 Dec 1995 18:21:31 GMT Organization: Telex Communications, Inc. Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4ahsrb$d81$1@mhafc.production.compuserve.com> References: <9512101153.utk7712@FAB9.intel.com> You should pick up the ARRL book entitled "Physical Design of Yagi Antennas" by Dave Leeson. It tells you all you need to know about this subject. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: is it possible to get on the net with a ham radio? Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 16:54:03 GMT Organization: Inlink Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4a9qhc$8vl@news1.inlink.com> References: <4a2i5v$1rc@tribune.usask.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip181.inlink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 mjo120@mail.usask.ca (Sully O'Sullivan) wrote: >hi there... > apparently my uncle bought a modem which allows him to use his >ham radio and get onto the net... > does anyone have any kind of information on a system like this? >any info would be much appreciated. To the best of my knowledge, you can send and receive e-mail, however, a direct connect to the net would in many cases produce unapropriate replies not acceptable on the Amateur Radio bands and is not suggested. Many packet to internet gateways exist and are posted regularly on packet BBSs. Gary - KG0ZP From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!mjo120 From: mjo120@mail.usask.ca (Sully O'Sullivan) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: is it possible to get on the net with a ham radio? Date: 5 Dec 1995 22:47:27 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4a2i5v$1rc@tribune.usask.ca> Reply-To: mjo120@mail.usask.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: ascl.usask.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] hi there... apparently my uncle bought a modem which allows him to use his ham radio and get onto the net... does anyone have any kind of information on a system like this? any info would be much appreciated. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!buffnet2.buffnet.net!usenet From: daveb@buffnet.net (david james) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: is it possible to get on the net with a ham radio? Date: 10 Dec 1995 18:19:27 GMT Organization: BuffNET Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4af8bf$f3j@buffnet2.buffnet.net> References: <4a2i5v$1rc@tribune.usask.ca> <4acq1o$jup@excalibur.edge.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dppp50.buffnet.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.2 In article <4acq1o$jup@excalibur.edge.net>, "Robin E. Midgett" says: > >I have never done that; however it is done via packet radio, the radio link is >SLOW as molasses. I'm not aware of what you want to do once you establish a radio >link to the net, but a computerlink is much faster. I agree .... Packet at 1200 baud is like watching paint dry. Its too bad that once the ham community developed packet radio into a viable mode they didn't advance beyond 1200 baud. Quite typical considering that some still believe CW should be a requirement necessary for operating on the low bands. Unless you intend to run at 56K forget it. daveb From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!earth.execpc.com!not-for-mail From: thubbard@earth.execpc.com (Terry Hubbard) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: K6STI loop antenna. Date: 8 Dec 1995 13:07:07 -0600 Organization: Exec-PC Lines: 18 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <4aa2cr$or9@earth.alpha.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.execpc.com I am looking for opinions on the loop antenna featured in the Sep 95 qst. If you have built this antenna, I am interested in what you have to say about it. Also I am having trouble finding variable capacitors in the range (80pf 500pf) specified in the article. If you have a source please pass this info along. I can get trimmers that will tune in the range of 7 to 50pf. What type of fixed value capacitor would be most appropriate to use in 0 with the variable cap. i.e. ceramic, mica etc. I plan to install the antenna in my attic. I had thought about putting it up above the roof but I'm not sure there is going to be that much difference 1 foot above or 1 foot below the roof. -- ----- Terry Hubbard Internet:thubbard@execpc.com Cudahy, WI Compuserve: 75347,2614 From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.seanet.com!gatkins.seanet.com!gatkins From: gatkins@gatkins.seanet.com (Guy Atkins) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: K6STI loop antenna. Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:40:13 GMT Organization: OSD, Inc. Lines: 28 Distribution: usa Message-ID: References: <4aa2cr$or9@earth.alpha.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: gatkins.seanet.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4] In article <4aa2cr$or9@earth.alpha.net> thubbard@earth.execpc.com (Terry Hubbard) writes: >From: thubbard@earth.execpc.com (Terry Hubbard) >Subject: K6STI loop antenna. >Date: 8 Dec 1995 13:07:07 -0600 >I am looking for opinions on the loop antenna featured in the Sep 95 qst. >If you have built this antenna, I am interested in what you have to say >about it. Also I am having trouble finding variable capacitors in the >range (80pf 500pf) specified in the article. If you have a source please Terry, I built the antenna at 25 ft. per side, and resonated it for 3300 kHz, which is the middle of the 90 meterband for tropical band DX that I pursue. I used a miniature variable 365pf capacitor from a junker transistor AM radio, and wound the toroid transformer on an Amidon brand core (pri/sec. turns recalculated). I am very pleased with how this antenna reduced local powerline noise and also TV oscillator interference. It could use some extra gain... I haven't tried a preamp with it yet. However, signals are not reduced much over my other antennas on the 90 meterband. My terminated, matched "mini" Beverage (350 ft.) is still my best receiving antenna for reception from Indonesia (my main interest), but the noise-reducing loop has helped signals from other parts of the world that are otherwise uncopyable in the hash and RFI junk. --Guy From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!hoho.quake.net!hilbert.dnai.com!usenet From: Stan Jacox Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: KLM 34A manual sought Date: 9 Dec 1995 19:06:43 GMT Organization: Studio Maintenance Center Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4acmo3$ou3@hilbert.dnai.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: isdn27-10.dnai.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) I have a KLM 34A the I took apart until I got a new tower. I've finally gotten the tower but I can't find my assembly manual. The elements are still complete but I don't know which one is which or the correct placement on the boom. Does anyone have manual the I can copy? Stan Jacox KM6XZ From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.uoregon.edu!cuhknntp!hpg30a.csc.cuhk.hk!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts Date: 10 Dec 1995 05:49:14 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4adscq$1f30@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <4a4ag6$nhc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4acco8$l6t@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article <4acco8$l6t@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, W8JI Tom wrote: >The reason I ask this is I'm a bit confused as to the goal here. I can >understand how it will lower the SWR, but it certainly won't let you find >the resistance you desire unless you are very lucky or the stub is a two >part device. Hi Tom, assume the resistance we desire is in the range of 25-100 ohms to give us a 50 ohm SWR below 2:1 Using 450 ohm ladder-line this condition will be met for any ladder-line SWR between 4.5:1 and 18:1 Using 300 ohm ladder-line this condition will be met for any ladder-line SWR between 3:1 and 12:1 ELNEC says 20m is the only band that would be outside those limits for a 102 ft dipole (G5RV). So you only have to be a little lucky to obtain 50 ohm SWRs of less than 2:1 by varying the length of the ladder- line. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:51 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!uknet!news.u-net.com!newsmaster From: garry@bonney.u-net.com (Garry Walker) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Low Band Dx Antenna Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:19:10 GMT Organization: Garry Walker Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4aib0q$4fd@oveja.u-net.net> Reply-To: garry@bonney.u-net.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bonney.u-net.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 HI there, I have just recently installed a 70 foot tower at a second home. My present address comprises of a small plot of land where I used to have a 30 foot tower and not even enough space for a 40 metres dipole, however now I have 2 acres of land and the decent tower. I have already decided on my antenna system for 20 metres and above, using 4 element quagi antennas, but I have little experience with the lower bands. I am NOT interested in 160 metres, as my home is in France and the frequencies used on 160 metres are only allowed between 1.830 and 1.850, seems pretty pathetic to me! Anyway at the moment I use an interverted V antenna on 80 metres at the 70 foot level, it works quite well for DXing but not I believe well enough! I was thinking about shunt feeding the tower with about 60 radials in the ground, anyone have experince with this? Also I was thinking of putting up a delta loop at about 90 feet, again I dont know if it's worth the effort. The 4 square system seems to be popular these days but I'm not bothered about that much effort, I just want to be able to 'comfortably' work DX NOT be the 'big' signal on the band. Any suggestions would be most welcome. Regards Garry ---------------------------------- G0IHB, GX0TEN, F/G0IHB/P Internet:garry@bonney.u-net.com Packet: G0IHB@F6KBO.FBRE.FRA.EU ---------------------------------- From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!ddi2.digital.net!usenet From: russ@gslink.net (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Low-noise Receiving Antennas Date: 13 Dec 1995 02:12:40 GMT Organization: FLORIDA ONLINE, Florida's Premier Internet Provider Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4alcqo$7ia@ddi2.digital.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: @204.215.242.167 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 Anyone who has tried the antennas from the September QST articles that help reject local man-made noise, please pass along your findings. I'm debating whether to try this one, or a TTFD (for all HF freqs). Thanks in advance, Russ LeBlanc From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!ablecom!usenet From: davef@ablecom.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: MFJ Artificial Ground in RV? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 17:10:19 PDT Organization: Able Technical Services Lines: 10 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.75.37.16 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage I'm having a terrible time trying to load a 40M whip on my Winnebago--sort of a square, 20' long box with an aluminum skin. I mounted the whip on the side near the top rear corner. I can't get the RF off the rig and wonder if the lack of an "RF ground" (vs. a DC ground, which I have) is the problem. Any thoughts? Dave W0RNL From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: MFJ Artificial Ground in RV? Date: 12 Dec 1995 10:42:21 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 24 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ak7st$1re@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article , davef@ablecom.net writes: > >I'm having a terrible time trying to load a 40M whip on my Winnebago--sort of > >a square, 20' long box with an aluminum skin. I mounted the whip on the side > >near the top rear corner. I can't get the RF off the rig and wonder if the >lack of an "RF ground" (vs. a DC ground, which I have) is the problem. Any >thoughts? > >Dave >W0RNL Hi Dave, Sounds like you need a choke balun in the feedline to the antenna. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!nntp.coast.net!news.dacom.co.kr!news.netins.net!usenet From: crcarlson@netins.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: MFJ Artificial Ground in RV? Date: 13 Dec 1995 04:13:25 GMT Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA Lines: 22 Message-ID: <0099AC67.ADD4CF91@netins.net> References: Reply-To: crcarlson@netins.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net In article , davef@ablecom.net writes: > >I'm having a terrible time trying to load a 40M whip on my Winnebago--sort of >a square, 20' long box with an aluminum skin. I mounted the whip on the side >near the top rear corner. I can't get the RF off the rig and wonder if the >lack of an "RF ground" (vs. a DC ground, which I have) is the problem. Any >thoughts? > >Dave >W0RNL > Dave: In just the last two months I read an article that dealt, somewhat incidently, with your problem. If I recall....(the memory isn't really the first to go but its in the top 5) The article was by one of my favorite ham writers, Doug DeMaw W1FB and it was in CQ magazine. He was reviewing the RF isolator made by Radio Works. Its a good review of what this piece of equipment can do. He mentioned in passing that he used his with a tuner to "float" the tuner and stop RF feedback in his camper. It stopped all his problems. If you talk to Radio Works, (ads in both CQ and QST) they could probably help. Hope this helps. 73 de WB0FDJ From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:56 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newshub.cts.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Minimum element spacing on yagi Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:41:32 GMT Lines: 4 Sender: slwork@netcom3.netcom.com Why is the minimum spacing of elements on a yagi 0.15 times the wavelength? What if you try to design one with the elements closer together (i.e half this distance)? How does this degrade the performance of the antenna? Reduced gain? Less bandwidth? From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.qnet.com!usenet From: Will Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Mob.ant (screw driver) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:52:53 -0800 Organization: Quantum Networking Solutions; Virginia, USA; info@qnet.com Lines: 4 Message-ID: <30CD5F05.19F9@qnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup35.palm.ca.qnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) Hello, I am looking for info on the *screw driver*type mobile antenna. Is it a kit or are there any plans or?? Any info is welcome. 73 de Will, KN6DV From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!news.qnet.com!usenet From: Will Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Mob.Antenna info needed Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 02:33:59 -0800 Organization: Quantum Networking Solutions; Virginia, USA; info@qnet.com Lines: 5 Message-ID: <30CEAC17.2CF1@qnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup55.palm.ca.qnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) Hello, I would like to get some info about the mobile *screwdriver* Antenna. Are there any building plans on can I buy it as a kit? Any info is welcome. Thanks 73 de Will, KN6DV From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.jersey.net!news.win.bright.net!brutus.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.supernet.net!news.magicnet.net!usenet From: Frank Kiehner Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question Date: 10 Dec 1995 04:59:28 GMT Organization: MagicNet, Inc. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4adpfg$o0j@comet.magicnet.net> References: <4a7j00$nt1@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm5-12.magicnet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) To: 71023.2341@compuserve.com Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:24916 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17563 Hello, Name here is Jeremy, I just got out of C.B.ing and into Amateur Radio, but I will answer your question about the cellular look alike. as far as I heard over CB the things work better then the "rubber duck" antena but the best one I used is probably the 102 inch wip. If you are looking for somthing smaller then go with a mag mount, still smaller go with the cellular look alike. It depends on your budget and how much space you have on you car. Jeremy From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!dfw.nkn.net!usenet From: Critter@mail.fastlane.net (Chris Dunlap) Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:29:22 GMT Organization: National Knowledge Network Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> References: <4a7j00$nt1@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fw39.fastlane.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:24949 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17604 71023.2341@compuserve.com (John L. Scarfone) wrote: >Now to the question... >I just saw some antennas at Radio Shack that look just like cell phone >antennas (coupled through the glass). That looks perfect if the >quality is reasonable. They are specifically listed as CB antennas. >Does anyone know how well these work? Would performance be close to >the whip, somewhere in between, or about the same as the flexible one? >Any comments would be appreciated here or via e-mail. >I'm pretty much in the dark on antenna theory. I've heard that >ideally, a CB antenna should be about 8.5 ft. (1/2 wave I think). >That makes me skeptical about the cell phone-like one but then again, >I don't know the purpose of that pig-tail in the center of it. Maybe >this compensates for the short design? Thanks again. >~j The cellular antenna look alike is not worth a flip. If you call 1-800-THE-SHAC you will be able to ask the guys in there for specs and you will be able to make up your own mind. This is providing you are in the USA. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!ns3.iamerica.net!usenet From: dteague@iamerica.net (Dave Teague ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Mosley PRO-67-C Anyone using this antenna? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:53:00 GMT Organization: LDS iAmerica Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4ag9e5$gbs@ns3.iamerica.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ias_ppp0341.iamerica.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I am considering the Pro-67-c for my new HF antenna. The antenna is 24' boom and 111 lbs. Windload 12.1 sq. ft. and an $1119.95 pricetag. Covers 20 thru 10 meters including warc plus 3 elements on 40 meters. It will be installed at about 80 ft. If anyone is using this antenna please let me know how it performs, especially on 40 and 20 meters. The specs in the Mosley catalog look impressive. KF5IU EM31 Jena, LA dteague@iamerica.net From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:01 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Robert Scott <102141.1355@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc Subject: need help on where to op in ZF Date: 12 Dec 1995 23:53:21 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4al4lh$prh$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17642 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95489 I am going to the Cayman Islands next month, but i am staying in a luxury hotel-the Hyatt. Does anyone know a ham that might let me make some Q's from their qth? I would pay them for the use of their station. TU..Rob wr3y From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:02 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!news3.noc.netcom.net!zdc!zippo!usenet From: dvitale@boce.butte.k12.ca.us (Dan Vitale) Subject: Need Motor for Daiwa MR-750 Rotator X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ Sender: usenet@news.zippo.com Nntp-Posting-Host: pmdyn72.bcoe.butte.k12.ca.us Organization: Butte Schools Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:20:03 GMT Lines: 7 I have a Daiwa rotator model MR-750. They dont make it anymore and they dont support it anymore either. Does anyone know if someone, after market, still supports it. I need a motor for it. I would be willing to buy one from someone, that is the whole rotator, if someone had one to sell. I would appreciate any comments or helpful suggestions. Tnx. Dan Vitale. KD6P. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:03 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!newsmaster From: <74073.34@compuserve.com> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: network connection lost Date: 9 Dec 1995 06:37:44 GMT Organization: CompuServe Incorporated Lines: 2 Message-ID: <4abaro$nh2@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dd11-001.compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-length: 0 X-Newsreader: AIR Mosaic (16-bit) version 1.00.198.07 From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:04 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!grian!morris From: morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Mike Morris) Subject: Re: New Office, No Reception! Message-ID: <1995Dec11.082506.26524@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> Organization: College Park Software, Altadena, CA References: Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:25:06 GMT Lines: 39 berken@collemcvoy.com (Bob Berken) writes: >I recently started a new job and I'm having problems picking up any a.m. >stations. The radio I'm using is a portable Sony CDF-450, your standard >small stereo. The building I'm in is a 24 floor complex. Any suggestions? Check your windows for a metallic coating - some of the newer buildings use it to reflect IR, thereby lowering the cooling bills. The stuff also makes a good RF shield. One trick a friend is using to get AM to work is to use a pair of .001uf 1kv cap from the antenna jack to the phone line. This assumes that neither side of the antenna connector is hooked to the chassis, therefore to the ground pin of the power cord. If so, you may need a toroid transformer for the AM band. phone line -----------------| |----------------- radio ant hot phone line ---------------------| |--------------radio ant cold An alternate connection - one that I used a long time ago... one side of phone line -----------------| |----------------- radio ant hot ground (3rd prong - not the neutral!) pin of AC outlet ---------------------| |--------radio ant cold One idiot I worked with used the above with the antenna hot lead wired through the capacitor to the neutral side of the power plug - I personally don't like trusting that the caps would protect me or my radio from any random AC outlet having hot and neutral swapped. Then again back in the 50s some of the AC-DC 5-tube radios used the power line decoupled by a capacitor as the antenna.... -- --- Mike Morris morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us #include I have others, but this works the best. This message assembled from 100% recycled electrons (and pixels). From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: ricklutz@aol.com (RICK LUTZ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: plans for copper tubing jpole Date: 11 Dec 1995 22:49:00 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 5 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aiu3c$hdv@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: ricklutz@aol.com (RICK LUTZ) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I am trying to locate the plans for a copper tubing (about 1/2 or 3/4 in) jpole. a friend wants to build one up and i am concerned about velocity factors and spacing and would like a proven plan. thanks 73--KD4SEV From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:06 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Program for log-peroidic design Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 21:51:24 GMT Lines: 3 Sender: slwork@netcom18.netcom.com There is a program called YAGIMAX for desiging and evaluating yagis, is there a similar program for log-periodic design. Preferably one where you input desired gain, bandwidth, frequency, etc. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!newsspool.wisc.edu!news.wisc.edu!lumkes From: lumkes@cae.wisc.edu (John Lumkes) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Quad vs. Yagi polarization and gain? Date: 12 Dec 1995 15:55:24 GMT Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin--Madison Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4ak8lc$1jrc@news.doit.wisc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hp-28.cae.wisc.edu I am planning on building a quad or yagi 2m beam for experimenting with longer distances on low power. I understand the polarization for a yagi and have seen how to feed a quad for vertical polarization (Jan95 QST). Is the quad true vertical polarization or just some portion of it? In light of this, does a quad or yagi of a given beam length exhibit more gain (useful gain) in terms of hitting other vertical antennas? Thanks, John AA9QP lumkes@cae.wisc.edu From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:08 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!news.rcinet.com!sally.dma.org!millersg From: millersg@dma.org (Steve Miller) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Quad vs. Yagi polarization and gain? Date: 12 Dec 1995 18:47:58 GMT Organization: Dayton Microcomputer Association; Dayton, Ohio, USA Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4akiou$8vr@sally.dma.org> References: <4ak8lc$1jrc@news.doit.wisc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dmapub.dma.org In article <4ak8lc$1jrc@news.doit.wisc.edu>, John Lumkes wrote: >I am planning on building a quad or yagi 2m beam for experimenting >with longer distances on low power. I understand the polarization >for a yagi and have seen how to feed a quad for vertical polarization >(Jan95 QST). Is the quad true vertical polarization or just some >portion of it? Yes. >In light of this, does a quad or yagi of a given beam >length exhibit more gain (useful gain) in terms of hitting other >vertical antennas? If suitably optimized, a quad will give you slightly more gain than a yagi. The difference is maybe 2 dB at best and decreases for antennas having long boom lengths (in terms of wavelength) and many elements. -- Steve Miller millersg@dmapub.dma.org WD8IXE - Ridin' the aethereal waves From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:09 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Quad vs. Yagi polarization and gain? Date: 13 Dec 1995 09:20:59 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4am5tr$jfs@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <4ak8lc$1jrc@news.doit.wisc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de Both quad or yagi will produce vertical polarization, if fed / oriented accordingly. A two elememt quad has 2 - 3 dB gain over a yagi, as you add more elements, this advantage gradually disappears. The four element quad is quite good for its boom length, with about 8 or so dBd. In vertical polarization the main problem is the interference of the support and feed line. you can either have a short quad (or yagi) mounted in front of your mast or two yagis stacked side by side and supported by a horizontal boom. 73, Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: quarter wave is batter? Date: 10 Dec 1995 10:57:26 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 24 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4af016$npk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4aepdu$ao2@mars.mahidol.ac.th> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4aepdu$ao2@mars.mahidol.ac.th>, srwhm@mucc.mahidol.ac.th (Wanna Hemasuk - SRNS) writes: > i am just curious why is my quarter wave batter than 5/8 c-load >in down town. on urban highway c-load is the best for >2-meter mobile. but not for road which has tall buildings obstruct. > i receive QRK5 s meter half by my 1/4 but QRK2-3 s2-3 by 5/8 >and 0.5W send is full scale by 1/4 , 3W send is the same for 5/8 >why???? 0dbi gain is batter than +3dbi > >regards >wanna H. >HS1LHT The 5/8 wl only has the 3dB gain when above a very large (d<5 wL) perfect groundplane. 5/8 wl gain is not 3 dB in real world conditionss. The 5/8 wl has a pattern split into two lobes. At close distances the high antenna may be in the middle of the 5/8 pattern null. The 5/8 WL does offer some height advantage. It is good only at a distance and with a mobile. It helps get above other objects. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!senior.nectec.or.th!news.mahidol.ac.th!mucc!srwhm From: srwhm@mucc.mahidol.ac.th (Wanna Hemasuk - SRNS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: quarter wave is batter? Date: 10 Dec 1995 14:04:46 GMT Organization: Mahidol University, Thailand Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4aepdu$ao2@mars.mahidol.ac.th> NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.14.162.1 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] i am just curious why is my quarter wave batter than 5/8 c-load in down town. on urban highway c-load is the best for 2-meter mobile. but not for road which has tall buildings obstruct. i receive QRK5 s meter half by my 1/4 but QRK2-3 s2-3 by 5/8 and 0.5W send is full scale by 1/4 , 3W send is the same for 5/8 why???? 0dbi gain is batter than +3dbi regards wanna H. HS1LHT QRU 73 -- ************************************************************* * Wanna Hemasuk Siriraj Hospital Bangkok Thailand * * srwhm@mucc.mahidol.ac.th Mahidol University * ************************************************************* From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!cjpratsj From: cjpratsj@aztec.asu.edu (CAMILLE J. PRAT, SJ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: READ PLEASE!!! Date: 9 Dec 1995 04:07:26 GMT Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ (USA) Lines: 90 Message-ID: <4ab21u$p67@news.asu.edu> References: Reply-To: cjpratsj@aztec.asu.edu (CAMILLE J. PRAT, SJ) NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu In a previous article, rlecle@lacitec.on.ca (Roch Leclerc) says: --- snip --- >By following the following instructions, I recieved over $50,000 dollars >in about 45 days. Paid off my bills, and was able to hold my apartment >and car. This whole experience has restored my credit and my faith in >others. Give it a try...It really works! > >- Susan in Atlanta > >INSTRUCTIONS: > >Follow these instructions EXACTLY, and in 20 to 60 days, you will have >recieved over $50,000 in cash. > >1.) Immediatly send $1.00 to the first 5 names listed below. Starting a >number 1 through number 5, SEND CASH ONLY. (total investments: $5.00 + >postage) Enclose a letter with a note saying: "Please add my name to your >mailing list." Include your name and mailing address. This is a >legitimate >service that you are requesting and you are paying $1.00 for this service. > >2.) Remove the name that appears as Number 1 on the list. Move the other 9 >names up one position. > >3.) With your name at the number 10 spot, upload this ENTIRE file to 15 >different BBS's. If you are unsure how to do this, upload the message to >15 newsgroups other than one's where it has already been posted. You may >also post it in a message base at a BBS, or in the file section. NEED CASH >FAST?.TXT. and use the file description comments to draw attention to >this file. > >4.) Within 60 days, you will receive over $50,000 in CASH. Keep a copy of >this file for yourself so that you can use it again and again whenever you >need money. As soon as you mail out these letters, you are automatically in >the mail order buisness. People will be sending you $1.00 to be placed on >your mailing list. This list can be then be rented to a broker that can be >found in your yellow pages for additional income on a regular basis. > > >This will more valuable as it grows in size. This is a service, and it is >PERFECTLY LEGAL! If you have any doubts to the legalityof this service, >please refer to Title 18,h sections 1302 NS 1341 of the postal lottery >laws. > > >Note: Make sure you keep every name and address sent to you. This is PROOF >that you are truly providing a service, and should the I.R.S question you, >you can provide them with this proof! > >Remember, as each post is downloaded and the instructions carefully followed, >5 members will be reimbursed for thier participation as List Developers with >$1.00 each. Your name will move up on the list so that when it reaches >number 5, you will be recieving thousands of dollars in cash! > >REMEMBER: THIS PROGRAM WILL ONLY FAIL IF YOU ARE NOT HONEST, PLEASE BE >HONORABLE..IT DOES WORK! > > > >1. B.T. Dawkins Jr. P.O. Box 133 Berea, OH. 44017 > >2. Johnny L. Wilson 5006 Scots Pine Court Hephzibah, Ga. 30815 > >3. Chris Camuglia 1 Old Hickory Drive 2B Albany, NY 12204 > >4. George Bickle 2161 Hwy. 508 Onalaska Wa. 98570 > >5. Debeta Enterprises P.O. Box 4615 Boynton Beach, Fl. 33424 > >6. I. Trevino 1 Couger Place Dr. #806 Houston, TX, 77004 > >7. J.W. Conners 1314 Berwick Ave. Atlanata Ga. 30306 > >8. Brian Corrigan, 9 Brightonwood Rd. Glenmont, NY 12077 > >9. Alison Ellis, 459 Blue Blossom Lane, Eureka, CA 95503 > >10. Roch Leclerc, 20 Des Noisetiers, App.306, Hull, Canada, J8Z 2M2 > ----- Sigh! Another variation on an old theme: the pyramid scam... Beware! -- Camille Prat KB7LBN [ cjpratsj@aztec.asu.edu.us ] From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jerryke7ua@aol.com (Jerryke7ua) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Repeater Antennas Date: 8 Dec 1995 16:59:02 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 37 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aacf6$ruh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Repeater Operators: Noise Problem A Hustler G-6 was used for several years, but was damaged by the wind and replaced by the Cushcraft stacked dipoles about a year ago. Great care was taken to make sure the connections to the phasing harness was sound, taped, and Scotch Coated, but a problem has developed. Arcing may be taking place at one of the connections or the gamma arms??? Or intermod??? When the transmitter is up, you can hear a signal mixing with the intended. The problem seems to be temperature related as well. When the temp is below 40 F the interferring signal goes away. Various tests have been made to check the present antenna for SWR, and a Time Domain Reflectometer was used on the feedline (7/8" hardline) - all OK. The transmitter was checked with a Spectrum Analyzer - clean. Reducing the transmit power does not effect any change. We are concerned about the use of PL259 connections on the Cushcraft, and we're now looking at making another antenna change. Anyone using Cushcraft stacked dipoles on a repeater?? Anyone have experience with the Comet or the Diamond antennas (fiberglass) as a repeater antenna. I'm sure the best approach would be to use a commercial grade antenna, but due to limited funds, we're considering alternatives. Your comments and experience are welcomed. Thanks again. 73 Jerry KE7UA - Livonia, MI EX - WA8HHM, WB4QVD, WB8LNF & DL4PY Requested on behalf of my brothers, WB8NJS - Denny & K8ARE - Nelson. 147.225 located in Bethel, Ohio (Clermont County). From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:15 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!news.net99.net!news.sojourn.com!condor.ic.net!news.cic.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns From: bbruhns@newshost.li.net (Bob Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Repeater Antennas Date: 11 Dec 1995 02:03:07 GMT Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Lines: 38 Message-ID: <4ag3gr$87j@linet02.li.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I've seen antennas go bad in commercial duplex service. Usually, they crackle badly as they rock in the wind. But what you describe sounds to me as though your transmitter, or perhaps some other transmitter at your tower site, may have spurs when it's warm. Of course, depending on which band you are on, and what kind of connectors you used, you could also be seeing the problems which prompted GE to disadvise the use of nickel plated connectors on 800 MHz. I can't speak from experience there, I can only tell you that's what GE said 10 years ago, and I hear the same from other sources. Good silver-plated "N" connectors seem to be your best bet for duplex, especially on UHF. There are some cheap, rough-surface silver plated connectors around; avoid them. You may not have many days with temps above 40 degrees until next year, but if you do, go up with a spectrum analyzer and inspect for spectral purity around your tower. If you problem is only a heterodyne, it is not severe enough for me to assume it is caused by a bad antenna contact, except possibly at the level of dissimilar-metal IM. I suspect a thermal spur somewhere up there, likely in your own transmitter. Certain transmitter designs are more likely to go spurious than others. In particular, look out for cheap designs that use high per-stage gain to achieve low transistor count and high efficiency. Yes, the batteries may last longer, but the transmitters are very much more sensitive to mistuning. Small amounts of reflected power can throw them into spurious oscillation. If this is your problem, get a trombone slide VSWR checker, a good directional wattmeter, and tune the transmitter hot, while checking to ensure that you can really pull the VSWR around without the station going spurious. If this seems stupid, it is; better to have 5 dB per stage, and one more driver stage, but people get dollar signs in their eyeballs... Also make sure reflected power from the duplexer is not excessive, especially when hot. A duplexer may get significantly out of tune when hot, and this may make it get hotter! Tune it hot, at reduced power or with a network analyzer if at all possible (less sparking inside). A mistuned duplexer can really throw the VSWR out of joint. Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, bbruhns@li.net From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news From: Dave Hockaday Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Repeater Antennas Date: 12 Dec 1995 02:22:20 GMT Organization: News & Observer Public Access Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4aip0s$6l3@castle.nando.net> References: <4ag3gr$87j@linet02.li.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1916.nando.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) > I've seen antennas go bad in commercial duplex service. Usually, they >crackle badly as they rock in the wind. But what you describe sounds to >me as though your transmitter, or perhaps some other transmitter at your >tower site, may have spurs when it's warm. Of course, depending on Same experience here. I have had this "hetrodyne" symptom at 2 sites over the last few years. Both times there was a distinct relationship to ambient temperature changes. Both times it was a problem with the duplexers. Both times it made me crazy and I got more gray hair. Heehee... Just my experiences... 73 de WB4IUY From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!usenet From: dbwillia@uci.edu (Brian Williams) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Repeater Antennas Date: 11 Dec 1995 22:41:21 GMT Organization: UCI Medical Center Lines: 39 Message-ID: <4aic2h$rql@news.service.uci.edu> References: <4aacf6$ruh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin9010.slip.uci.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In article <4aacf6$ruh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jerryke7ua@aol.com says... > >Repeater Operators: > >Noise Problem > >A Hustler G-6 was used for several years, but was damaged by the wind and >replaced by the Cushcraft stacked dipoles about a year ago. Great care was >taken to make sure the connections to the phasing harness was sound, >taped, and Scotch Coated, but a problem has developed. >Anyone have experience with the Comet or the Diamond antennas (fiberglass) >as a repeater antenna. I'm sure the best approach would be to use a >commercial grade antenna, but due to limited funds, we're considering >alternatives. >Your comments and experience are welcomed. Thanks again. >Jerry KE7UA - Livonia, MI >EX - WA8HHM, WB4QVD, WB8LNF & DL4PY >Requested on behalf of my brothers, WB8NJS - Denny & K8ARE - Nelson. >147.225 located in Bethel, Ohio (Clermont County). Jerry, I have no suggestions for your problem mentioned at the start of your message, however, I can answer your question about using Diamond and Comet antennas as a repeater antenna. They are not as rugged as SOME of the commercial antennas, but if you are not in an extremely windy location, they will hold up nicely. Mine (a Comet) has been in service for 2. One problem showed up in the base load section and was repaired by Comet. The only other disadvantage IMO is the lack of any downward tilt in radiation pattern which exists in SOME of the commercial antennas. This can make a difference when on a high mountain top repeater location. (I know what it's like to be shy on funds.) Anyway, good luck on your installation. I'm using the 17'6" (approx) Comet and a friend of mine is using Diamonds version of the same thing. 73, Brian N6ZAU From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:19 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: L. Figueroa <70662.1250@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: RF Circuit Designer Date: 10 Dec 1995 07:46:00 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4ae37o$nt9$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> I am looking for an RF circuit designer to work on an exciting project dealing with SHF Active Phased Arrays. Experience with MIMIC design tools and RF packing is highly desirable. Please FAX your resume to: L. Figueroa, 206-773-3593: E-Mail to: Figlx990@ccmail.ca.boeing.com. -- LF From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:19 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!charles1 From: charles1@netcom.com (charles copeland) Subject: RG-58 cripples antenna Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:34:01 GMT Lines: 11 Sender: charles1@netcom4.netcom.com I live in a first story apartment and own a TS-820. I use a 64 foot dipole strung along top of wall. Up to yesterday I did not even have coax, but just had a banana plug running up to one leg of dipole. It loaded fine, and was able to achieve 1:1 SWR on 40, 80 meters. I tried to pretty it up and added 10' of RG-58 to top of wall and split out to dipole. When I did this my SWR went to 1:2 on 80 meters and was not quit as good on 40 meters. I used a T-1000 tuner. Why did my SWR drop so badly with such a small peice of RG-58? From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!dfw.nkn.net!usenet From: Critter@mail.fastlane.net (Chris Dunlap) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Scanner Antenna? Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:25:03 GMT Organization: National Knowledge Network Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4ailkr$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> References: <3s1h6k$23me@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fw39.fastlane.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 BBCV60C@prodigy.com (Jason Smith) wrote: >Could anyone recommend a good scanner costing under 75$'s for a Uniden >Bearcat BC700A that has 800\900mhz frequencys? I find that the discone antenna from Radio Shack works well when you buy a male to male adapter and affix a 102" steel whip to it. I get everything! Chris D From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: bawassell@aol.com (BAWASSELL) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Spacing phased verticals Date: 12 Dec 1995 21:36:43 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ale7r$njf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: bawassell@aol.com (BAWASSELL) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I am considering phasing 2 verticals for 40 meters but the "convenient" distance is 37.5 feet. These would be elevated on 20 ft masts attached to each side of my garage. I thought of 90 degree phasing with a switch network to reverse the pattern (NNE or SSW). This arrangement is described in the ARRL antenna book on page 8-29, Fig. 33 (1994 edition). What happends if I space them 37.5 rather than the 33 feet (1/4 wavelength). If anyone has experience with this, your comments welcome. I have had good success with a 4BTV, but I am looking for something better (of course). Thanks. Terry, K3JT. respond to jtw2@niosr1.em.cdc.gov From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:22 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Spacing phased verticals Date: 13 Dec 1995 09:08:50 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 19 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ammpi$6vo@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ale7r$njf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4ale7r$njf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, bawassell@aol.com (BAWASSELL) writes: >What happends if >I space them 37.5 rather than the 33 feet (1/4 wavelength). >If anyone has experience with this, your comments welcome. >I have had good success with a 4BTV, but I am looking for >something better (of course). Thanks. Terry, K3JT. Hi Terry, On 7.15 MHz a 1/4 spacing is 34.4 feet, not 33. The spacing isn't critical if you re-adjust the phase to match. As the spacing is increased from 1/4 wl with end-fire phasing the main lobe keeps flattening out and getting wider. It eventually dimples in and splits into two or more lobes. But it is a very slow process, so your few extra feet hardly makes a difference if the phasing is re-adjusted to compensate. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 19:09:17 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4aja73$f01@crash.microserve.net> References: <4abom7$3rd@crash.microserve.net> <4accoa$l6u@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >Why not use one of the other polys? Teflon isn't any lower loss than >most of them, and they are cheaper yet. > >But what about water? It goes good with Scotch. (?) >Now here's a stupid answer.. >Actually, I use zip cord and regular wall plugs for my antennas. That >way I don't need a rig, I just plug the antenna directly into the >outlet. I'm the guy with all the hum..... zzzzzzzzzzzz ;-) I load my rig into the phone line. By calling different cities, I can resonate the line on different frequencies. The new fiber plants are ruining the radiation pattern though. :) 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.third-wave.com!usenet From: val48@third-wave.com (Gary Valentine) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: TH6-DXX Tri-Bander for sale Date: 5 Dec 1995 02:20:00 GMT Organization: Third Wave Development Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4a0a8h$39q@news.third-wave.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp5.third-wave.com X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6 My name is Gary Valentine. My call sign is N3EVP. I have a Hy-Gain TH6-DXX "Super Thunderbird" for sale. It is undamaged but was in use for 5 years on a 30 foot tower located in Pennsylvania. It worked well for me but I am selling it now because my father, W3VWA, became a silent key 6 years ago and I inherited all his equipment which is better than mine. The specifications of the TH6-DXX are as follows: 1) Input impedance - 52 ohms 2) Forward gain - 10 meters=9.5, 15 meters=8.5 and 20 meters=8.0 dB 3) Front to Back ratio - 25 dB 4) Max. power input - 1000 watts 5) Boom length - 24 feet 6) Longest element - 31 feet My QTH is in Pennsylvania. Reply by E-mail (val48@third-wave.com) or land line (814-893-5696). From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: twisted pair cable Date: 9 Dec 1995 16:35:33 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 5 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4acdsl$fok@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us During the 1930's, before coax was available, there was a cable called EO-1 twisted pair RF transmission line. Not sure about its Z0 but I think it was about 70 Ohms. I believe Amphenol made it. I saw some of it, and it was a kind of "tarry" looking stuff. From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:26 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.scruz.net!cruzio.com!pine222 From: davew@cruzio.com (David Wells) Subject: Re: un-guyed masts Organization: cruzio Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:18:37 GMT Message-ID: X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2 X-Nntp-Posting-Host: pine222.cruzio.com References: Sender: news@cruzio.com (The News UID) Lines: 18 rayx0020@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Jack Ray) wrote: > >What about hollow fiberglass poles? I am thinking of something like a >pole-vaulting blank. Would these not be stiffer than a solid pole but >still quite strong? > I work for a marine supply retailer and we sell fiberglass antenna extensions for VHF and cellular antennas. They range in length from 1' to 13' (1,4,8 &13). They are about 1" dia and can be screwed together. They would require a bracket part way up to properly brace them (we sell that also). So as not to be commercial I will not mention who I work for but they are available at most marine supply stores. I may screw some together at work and see how stable they are. Dave KD6TO From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:26 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!nntp-hub.barrnet.net!inet-nntp-gw-1.us.oracle.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail From: n7tcf@primenet.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: un-guyed masts Date: 10 Dec 1995 08:23:11 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Lines: 9 Sender: root@primenet.com Message-ID: <4aeu0v$5i6@nntp3.news.primenet.com> References: <4a72qd$h05@news1.inlink.com> Reply-To: n7tcf@primenet.com X-Posted-By: ip076.phx.primenet.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.9d - NLS Unguyed masts are unsafe. Some short lengths may be stable, but are not at a useful height. Merely citing an instance were a mast has not bent, broke or otherwise failed is not proof enough. The only way to properly find the length for a safe unguyed mast is through some stress and bending moment calculations. Your homeowners insurance will not blindly pay for the damages caused by poor installations. Jim N7TCF From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:28 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cgreenha From: cgreenha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Christopher K Greenhalgh) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Ant. on Ford Explorer? Date: 8 Dec 1995 23:14:25 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4aagsh$ekm@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <4aaccl$a2c@Twain.MO.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: beauty.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In article <4aaccl$a2c@Twain.MO.NET>, Keith O. Berry wrote: >I would like to here from anyone who has mounted a VHF/UHF antenna on their >Ford Explorer. I have a '96 witha moonroof and park in a garage, so the >antenna drags going in and out. With the exception of mounting on the fender >in front of the driver, where else has anyone mounted one?? > >Thanks, >Keith A friend of mine has a Blazer w/sunroof that parks in a garage...he uses a Diamond dual bander that has the 'fold-down' mounting base. Works good, but you must be perpared to 'fold' it everytime you go in or out. :) BTW, he has ran it through the car wash as well in the 'down' position with no adverse effect. 73. -- +=================================+===================================+ |Christopher K. Greenhalgh, N8WCT |cgreenha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | |Electronic/Computer Tech. @ OSU |radio: n8wct@w8cqk.#cmh.oh.usa.noam| +=================================+===================================+ From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:29 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!feenix.metronet.com!news From: kqualls@metronet.com (Kelly Qualls) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Ant. on Ford Explorer? Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:50:08 GMT Organization: Texas Metronet, Inc (login info (214/705-2901 - 817/571-0400)) Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4ahuga$pia@feenix.metronet.com> References: <4aaccl$a2c@Twain.MO.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: dal90.metronet.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 kberry@mo.net (Keith O. Berry) wrote: >I would like to here from anyone who has mounted a VHF/UHF antenna on their >Ford Explorer. I have a '96 witha moonroof and park in a garage, so the >antenna drags going in and out. With the exception of mounting on the fender >in front of the driver, where else has anyone mounted one?? You might consider two antennas, a shorter one for in-town use, and one with some gain (longer) when you need it. ANLI, I think, makes a short dual band (2 meters/70 cm) antenna (a cellular look-alike) with minimal gain (2 db on 2 meters, 3.5 I think on 70 cm). If that antenna is short enough to clear the garage, put that up there for in-town use, and purchase a higher gain antenna for weekend use, out of town use on the highway, or whenever you need extra gain. Hope this helps. 73, and good luck. Kelly Qualls kqualls@metronet.com From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:29 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.oberlin.edu!ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu!PRUTH From: pruth@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: What's a good cheap wide-range antenna tuner? Date: 8 Dec 1995 20:26:05 GMT Organization: Oberlin College, Oberlin, Ohio Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4aa70t$pcg@news.cc.oberlin.edu> Reply-To: pruth@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.cc.oberlin.edu I want to use my trap dipole at the edges of 80m and for the > WARC bands, and even 160m if I can do it with a 105' long 5-band > trap designed for 80-10. I'm currently using the tiny MFJ > random-wire transmatch which works surprisingly well for the > 5 non-WARC bands. I'm considering the MFJ 949E 300w ATU > which looks good for the price, but wonder if maybe it's not as > wide-range a tuner as I'd like--that maybe one of those roller > inductor ATUs might do what I want to do. Suggestions? > Thanks. --Bill KB8USZ pruth@alpha.cc.oberlin.edu From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!newsmaster From: 72627.2203@compuserve.com (Doug Alspaugh) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Which HF Vertical Date: 12 Dec 1995 18:57:45 GMT Organization: CompuServe Incorporated Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4akjb9$4i5@dub-news-svc-1.compuserve.com> References: <00999C9B.B70996D1@netins.net> <49j43t$4ef@sally.dma.org> <0099A2F5.7B8A68E1@netins.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-023.compuserve.com X-Newsreader: OUI 1.0.1 There is an article in the current World Radio and disputes your claim about the Gap and other radialess verticals. Even vertically mounted dipoles suffer 73 Doug WA6IEL From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.unb.ca!scratchy.mi.net!litigate From: litigate@mi.net (litigate) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: WTB: 40 METER YAGI Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 01:34:32 GMT Organization: MIS Fredericton Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4alaj8$cac_001@litigate.mi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: litigate.mi.net X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 I'm semi-interested in buying a 2 element yagi for 40 meters. It needs to be UPS-shippable to Maine. Anyone have anything? Which models should I avoid? Thanks. Rick VE9HF From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:32 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Yagis and multipath Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 02:55:33 GMT Lines: 37 Sender: slwork@netcom23.netcom.com I was experimenting with a commercial Winegard FM antenna. This antenna, intended for reception on the 88-108Mhz band only,is about 10 1/2 feet long. The boom is a 1" square, metal. There are 10 pairs of elements which are about 1 feet apart, though somewhat irregularly spaced. In each pair of elements, one is "above" the boom, and the other is "below" it. The "above" and "below" alternates sides for each pair of elements. Thus, there are two planes of elements about 1" apart. The front 5 pairs are directors. The back 5 pairs are all drive elements which tie together to a balun with a 75-ohm coax output. There are no parasitic elements (i.e. reflectors) in the back. A "normal" yagi of this length would have about 10-12db gain I would suppose. What is the rationale behind designing with multiple drive elements (each one wired out of phase with its neighbors)? Does this increase gain appreciably? I got rather curious results. The front part with 3 director pairs is a separate assembly. I tried it first with just the back part with 2 director and 5 drive pairs. This seemed to work just slightly better than a dipole made of TV wire. It would max out in the direction of the station and null about 90 degrees off as expected. Then I tried adding the front assembly. First, I only unfolded the directors nearest the rest of the antenna. This would seem to increase the gain for each pair of directors added, but instead, the gain (i.e. received signal) went way down when adding one or more sets of directors here. It seems that the front part of the antenna is located in a "null" area created by multipath. So, I am faced with a difficult situation. A high-gain antenna is needed to overcome multipath. Yet a high-gain antenna is more than a wavelength long, and it is not possible to have the entire length of the antenna in a strong signal area. Or is only the front-most element the one which has to be getting strong signal. I hope this is not the case because the room I am in only has (relatively) strong signal at the place FARTHEST from the station. Anyone have any suggestions? Perhaps some other kind of design which can increase gain but is not as long? From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!isc-newsserver.isc.rit.edu!jdc3538 From: jdc3538@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (CRONIN) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Yagis and multipath Date: 10 Dec 1995 16:54:42 GMT Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY Lines: 39 Message-ID: <4af3ci$109@news.isc.rit.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: grace.isc.rit.edu In article , Steve Work wrote: >I was experimenting with a commercial Winegard FM antenna. This antenna, >intended for reception on the 88-108Mhz band only,is about 10 1/2 feet >long. The boom is a 1" square, metal. There are 10 pairs of elements >which are about 1 feet apart, though somewhat irregularly spaced. In >each pair of elements, one is "above" the boom, and the other is "below" >it. The "above" and "below" alternates sides for each pair of elements. >... I have an FM-only antenna similar to what you describe. It's a log periodic "V" with added directors. >A "normal" yagi of this length would have about 10-12db gain I would >suppose. What is the rationale behind designing with multiple drive >elements (each one wired out of phase with its neighbors)? Does this >increase gain appreciably? I think they use log periodic antennas for extra bandwidth. The ARRL Antenna book has a section on log periodic antennas. >... >It seems that the front part of the antenna is located in a "null" area >created by multipath. So, I am faced with a difficult situation. A >high-gain antenna is needed to overcome multipath. Yet a high-gain >antenna is more than a wavelength long, and it is not possible to have >the entire length of the antenna in a strong signal area. Or is only >the front-most element the one which has to be getting strong signal. I >hope this is not the case because the room I am in only has (relatively) >strong signal at the place FARTHEST from the station. > >Anyone have any suggestions? Perhaps some other kind of design which can >increase gain but is not as long? If knew how to increase gain but not length I wouldn't be sitting here... Amateur VHF/UHF enthusiasts tend to use the manliest antenna they can find, the bigger the better. You can also get more out of your antenna by getting it farther up. 73..Jim N2VNO From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:35 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!fconvx.ncifcrf.gov!mack From: mack@ncifcrf.gov (Joe Mack) Subject: Re: Yagis and multipath Message-ID: Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center References: Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 19:03:31 GMT Lines: 26 In article slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) writes: >I was experimenting with a commercial Winegard FM antenna. This antenna, >intended for reception on the 88-108Mhz band only,is about 10 1/2 feet >long. The boom is a 1" square, metal. There are 10 pairs of elements >which are about 1 feet apart, though somewhat irregularly spaced. In >each pair of elements, one is "above" the boom, and the other is "below" >it. The "above" and "below" alternates sides for each pair of elements. >Thus, there are two planes of elements about 1" apart. The front 5 pairs >are directors. The back 5 pairs are all drive elements which tie >together to a balun with a 75-ohm coax output. There are no parasitic >elements (i.e. reflectors) in the back. > >A "normal" yagi of this length would have about 10-12db gain I would >suppose. What is the rationale behind designing with multiple drive >elements (each one wired out of phase with its neighbors)? Does this >increase gain appreciably? The driven elements are a log-periodic array. It's wide bandwidth but reduced gain compared to a yagi of the same length. Joe NA3T mack@ncifcrf.gov From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!usenet From: amsoft@epix.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: !! High Tech WWW Site !! Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 06:46:08 PDT Organization: epix.net Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: lwbyppp57.epix.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12123 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22520 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13110 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17675 Covering Amateur Radio, Electronics, Engineering, Space, Scanners Shortwave, and many more interesting Technical Areas. Includes 0ver 400 WWW links, and a link to our September 95 CD-ROM archive with over 23,000 files online. Very HOT High Tech WWW Site http://hamster.business.uwo.ca/~amsoft/ Surf The High Tech World from here today! From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@safe.ia.GOV Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 14 Dec 95 19:45:05 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 45 Message-ID: <199512141945.NAA14205@outpost.safe.ia.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu >From /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/ Thu Dec 14 13:50:10 CST 1995 remote from osiint.safe.ia.gov Date: 14 Dec 1995 13:44:35 -0600 X400-Trace: US*ATTMAIL*IADPS arrival 14 Dec 1995 13:44:35 -0600 action Relayed From: /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@osiint.safe.ia.gov To: "/RFC-822=Ham-Ant(a)UCSD.EDU/OU=OSI-INTERNET/O=WALLACE/PRMD=IADPS/ADMD=ATTMAIL/C=US/"@osiint.safe.ia.gov In-Reply-To: <"\"/RFC-822=199512132242.OAA17331(a)mail.ucsd.edu/OU=OSI-INTERNET/O=WALLACE/PRMD=IADPS/ADMD=ATTMAIL/C=US/\""@osiint.safe.ia.gov> Subject: G5RV question Importance: normal Autoforwarded: FALSE Message-Id: P1-Message-Id: US*ATTMAIL*IADPS;IDPS3550 werl1214132914aa UA-Content-Id: werl1214132914aa P1-Content-Type: P2 Priority: normal Received: from osiint.safe.ia.gov by iadpshub.safe.ia.gov; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:50 CST Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1286 > Date: 13 Dec 1995 16:54:31 GMT > From: cdorn@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Chris Dorn) > Subject: Grounding problem with G5RV? > > Hello, > I would appreciate some advice on the following. My antenna system > has been a G5RV about 25ft. up, connected to about 8ft of RG8 coax. The > stage were maybe getting around the problem. I therefore connected a wire > to ground stake to the antenna tuner, added 50ft of coax, and moved the > rig away from the antenna. I can now get an SWR of about 1:9 to 1, but > that is still somewhat dissapointing, and that's what I get with the tube > rigs now. Before with the tube rigs I would get 1:1 to 1. The ground rod > I am using is probably not very good, a rather thin stake about 2 to 3Ft > down. I can't do much as far as a new ground rod until spring thaw. Any > comments on this, and has anyone else had problems like this with a G5RV > and solid state vs. tube rigs? > Thanks, > Chris VE6RDC Hi Chris, I built a G5RV for my Knwd TS140 and with an MFJ ant tuner works just fine. I have ladder line from the antenna at 34' then about 30' of coax to the shack. It is #12 wire connected to the well head outside the house. Seems to work fine. Scott N0XZY werling@safe.ia.gov From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: joker@hol.GR (IRAKLIS MAVROKEFALOS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 15 Dec 95 04:11:37 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 2 Message-ID: <199512150411.CAA17540@prometheus.hol.gr> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu unsubscribe Iraklis Mavrokefalos From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: joker@hol.GR (IRAKLIS MAVROKEFALOS) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 17 Dec 95 02:24:57 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 2 Message-ID: <199512170224.AAA00162@prometheus.hol.gr> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu HELP From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:46 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: aa3ce@clark.ISrv.COM (thomas) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 16 Dec 95 14:42:09 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 2 Message-ID: <9512161442.AA19320@clark> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu unsubscribe From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news.microsoft.com!news From: v-ntxes@microsoft.com (Eric E. Scott) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 10 meter vertical Date: 14 Dec 1995 14:00:51 GMT Organization: Microsoft Corporation Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4apamj$94e@news.microsoft.com> References: <4aaflo$op3@wariat.wariat.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 157.56.124.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14 In article <4aaflo$op3@wariat.wariat.org>, says... > >What is a good vertical for 10 meters ? I'm using a Hust. 4btv but >want to go to monoband ten meter vertical. > On 10m you can tune down a lot of 11m CB antenna's. I have an Antron 99 wich has tunning rings on it. By turrning the rings you can tune it down to 10m. This is a 5/8th wave antenna. I found out of the box it didn't have a bad SWR on 10m without tunning it. Thanks Eric E. Scott KC7KLZ -- The opinions expressed in this message are my own personal views and do not reflect the official views of Microsoft Corporation. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet From: kr4tg@mindspring.com (mike del pozzo) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 160 meter top loaded designs Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:22:51 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4av6br$1qju@firehose.mindspring.com> References: <4ai9b2$5j9@cloner3.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kr4tg.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 labenz@ix.netcom.com (David M. Arruzza ) wrote: >CQ CQ CQ TO ALL RADIO AMATEURS.... >LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON TOP LOADED VERTICALS OPERATING IN THE 160 >METER BAND..ONLY PRESENT DESIGN CRITERIA IS THAT THE VERTICAL ELEMENT >NOT EXCEED 50' IN LENGTH...WOULD RATHER HAVE PROVEN DESIGNS NOT WHAT >YOU THINK WILL WORK...ALSO INTERESTED IN CONSTRUCTION DETAILS FOR THE >"MINOOKA SPECIAL" VERTICAL THAT HAS BEEN USED ON MANY DXPEDITIONS >OPERATING ON 160 LATELY. >73 AND SEASONS GREETINGS FROM WA1UUD @ RADIO RIDGE ANSONIA CT 160-10 >METERS SSB/CW ALL BAREFOOT...48 STATES WORKED ON 160 ONLY NEED KL7 AND >MISSISSIPPI... >DAVE Hello Dave : Try the ARRL Antenna book. It has an article on the Minnoka Special in a chapter on " Portable antennas" 73 de KR4TG,Mike From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!Lehigh.EDU!Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail From: c002@Lehigh.EDU Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 2.2GHz dish feed for 10GHz....posibble??? Date: 13 Dec 1995 15:21:56 -0500 Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4ancl4$2hgq@ns2-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ns2-1.cc.lehigh.edu In article <4ago44$ljm@hawk.pix.za>, Danie Brynard w rites: >Probably if you have a 10GHz feed of course. The higher the >frequency the more accurate the parabolic curve should be machined. so are you saying i can use a 2.2GHz antenna for 10GHz? DAvid |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | David Roseman | c002@lehigh.edu OUTTA ORDER! | | Saucon Valley Sen. HS | | | SysOp of NODE 3 BBS | The Flying HAm - BBS | | | Running OBV/2 Software | Technomage - BBS | | | | N3SQE/1 - HAm V | | | N3SQE@Nxxxx.FNxxxx.PA.USA.NA - Packet | From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news.microsoft.com!news From: v-ntxes@microsoft.com (Eric E. Scott) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 6M Antenna Date: 13 Dec 1995 17:50:53 GMT Organization: Microsoft Corporation Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4an3pt$lor@news.microsoft.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 157.56.124.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14 Hi, I'm trying to find plans for a 6m Dipole or J-pole. I heard that to cover the whole 6m band with you needed 2 antenna's. Is that true? Thanks Eric E. Scott KC7KLZ v-ntxes@microsoft.com -- The opinions expressed in this message are my own personal views and do not reflect the official views of Microsoft Corporation. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!news1.inlink.com!usenet From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 6M Antenna Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:23:36 GMT Organization: Inlink Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4apj1o$gmi@news1.inlink.com> References: <4an7q0$8it@omnifest.uwm.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip13.inlink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Hi Eric I use two separate 6-M antennas one for the FM repeater end and one for the low-end 50.125 Plans for the Copper Cactus J-Pole can be obtained from my home page along with stacking and mirror image J-Poles http://www.inlink.com/~raiar TTUL - 73+ de Gary - KG0ZP From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:51 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!server-b.cs.interbusiness.it!usenet From: ik8enh@netgroup.it (ik8enh) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 80 M. Antenna Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 21:46:37 GMT Organization: Centro Servizi Interbusiness Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4asq8e$44l@server-b.cs.interbusiness.it> Reply-To: ik8enh@netgroup.it NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.99.178.13 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Hi Om !!! Thank-you to dedicate me some of your free time. In this last period I have read many msg on the group about various antennas for 80m but not only. My little problem about 80 m band this is . I have ,fortunately , 2 support ,very high from the ground (about 50 meters) where I can stretch my antenna for 80 m . At moment I have an orizzontal dipole but I want replace it with another better mono-band antenna .I have read msg and articles but it make confusion in my mind so I do not know wich antenna is better for dx ( with more gain on orizzontal dipole ). Wich advice from your experience ??? Waiting your reply and I Wish you a Good Christmas and happy new year. See-you maybe in 80m , 73 Nino Molaro e-mail ik8enh@netgroup.it AX.25 IK8ENH@IK8URC.ICAM.ITA.EU or IK8ENH MR. Molaro Nino,Via R. Raiola 61 80053 C/mare di Stabia NA -ITALY From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:52 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!blackbird.afit.af.mil!tecsun1.tec.army.mil!navair2.nalda.navy.mil!avalon.chinalake.navy.mil!cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil!user From: mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (Mike, KN6IS) Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought - Couterpoises and ground Radials ? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@avalon.chinalake.navy.mil (NAWS news admin) Organization: nawc References: <30c94b2c.3749917@137.149.3.1> <4accp8$l72@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:30:19 GMT Lines: 32 Snip; > It almost seems like scientists are developing a "new trend". The trend is > to avoid real world effort, and rely on unproven models to establish or > change standards. Accuracy of NEC models with systems near real earth > should have been verified BEFORE this data was published and accepted. It > should at least be done as soon as possible! > > 73 Tom Tom, very good point. We in the Navy have very rigid verification and validation requirements for our computer models. Not as much as we would always like because of cost, but there is a requirement to show how we validated our model before we publish any results. The trend to rely on computer modeling started in the 60's and continues to grow. So much so, that in some cases we rely totally on the model and simulation to give us the truth with minimal or no validation of the data. Sometimes with devastating results. Again, it is a cost and schedule issue. We in the ham world have let some of our un-validated computer models go unchallenged. Not because of cost, but maybe because of being over zealous to get something published. I vote that we form an International team of verification and validation antenna computer model "experts". Our goal, to verify and validate ham antenna computer models. I also vote Tom as our leader. Good luck Tom and thanks for keeping us honest. -- Mike, KN6IS From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:53 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials so˙˙˙˙˙ Message-ID: <8B6E556.02CF0001D7.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 22:46:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: <4agdf0$t5i@science-network.science.net> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 40 PB> I need to add a comment. Don't think 120 radials is a religeous PB> number. The FCC required that number for broadcast stations eons PB> ago so that they could ensure advertisers were getting what they PB> paid for: efficiency + specified power + pattern = coverage PB> objective. The 120 radial number came about as a result of the paper in I.R.E. (predecessor to I.E.E.E.) in 1937 by Brown, Lewis, and Epstein. A humorous side comment which Dr. Bob Lewis tells, is that 120 radials happened to be all the wire they had for the experiment! ;-) PB> In practical terms, shoot for 60% to 80% efficiency, which GENERALLY PB> falls in the range of 16 to 30 radials with a reasonable distance. PB> Beyond that number the law of dimenishing returns comes in. At that PB> point it is far more preferable to increase power for the same PB> effect. I have built as many as 6 80meter 1/4 w.l. verticals and for three of them I measured self impedance as I progressively added 1/4 to 1/3 w.l. radials (120 or more). On average, I found that 50 radials was showing 50 ohms (real) self impedance. Since the theoretical value is 36.5 this would imply a 73% eff. At the moment I can't lay my hands on the data, but 16 radials I suspect is going to fall below 60% efficiency. (My lot is on a glacial moraine--meaning extremely poor conductivity and permitivity--my only advantage is this location is 300 feet above the immediately surrounding area). You're still coming down a fairly steep curve at 16 radials and only come into the knee of the curve around 80 radials, where you might say you're nearing the law of diminishing returns. Where there is space for it, I fail to see why anyone would give up so much efficiency for so little effort. BTW, it does require about 120 radials on a 1/4 w.l. vertical to get down to around 37 ohms self impedance. * RM 1.3 02583 * Danger: High Doltage From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u12566 Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, ADN Computer Center Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:56:12 CST From: James F. Foerster Message-ID: <95348.105612U12566@uicvm.uic.edu> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Alpha Delta EE Dipole Lines: 4 Any experiences to share on this? 1. Does it have to be supported in the center? 2. What is efficiency on 10 and 40? 73 de N9UZG From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:55 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!cc05du.unity.ncsu.edu!jwprice From: jwprice@unity.ncsu.edu (James Warren Price) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!? Date: 15 Dec 1995 03:30:20 GMT Organization: North Carolina State University Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4aqq4c$mlk@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cc05du.unity.ncsu.edu Albert Liao (liao@emedia.net) wrote: : a lot of people claim they can hear AM transmissions through : their dental work or bedsrpings. how does this happen? obiviously, : the metalic structure of the dental work and the springs can act as : antenna's but what is demodulating the signal from the carrier? : and what is used to amplify the sound? : if you have any ideas, it would be really nice if you emailed it : to me! HOW ABOUT POSTING FOR EVERYONE TO ENJOY? Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jim Price, ARS N3QYE Don't blame me. jwprice@unity.ncsu.edu I voted for Emma Goldman. http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jwprice/.link.html From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:56 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!news2.near.net!maceo.emedia.net!jliao-b.liao.emedia.net!user From: liao@emedia.net (Albert Liao) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Am reception in your teeth?!? Date: 15 Dec 1995 01:13:26 GMT Organization: Rhapsody Consulting Lines: 18 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: jliao-b.liao.emedia.net here's a question i've been trying to figure out: a lot of people claim they can hear AM transmissions through their dental work or bedsrpings. how does this happen? obiviously, the metalic structure of the dental work and the springs can act as antenna's but what is demodulating the signal from the carrier? and what is used to amplify the sound? anyways, just doing some wondering. if you have any ideas, it would be really nice if you emailed it to me! mucho gracias! -- -- Albert Liao From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!? Date: 15 Dec 1995 23:47:51 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4atj1n$8i1@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4aqq4c$mlk@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4aqq4c$mlk@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, jwprice@unity.ncsu.edu (James Warren Price) writes: > >: if you have any ideas, it would be really nice if you emailed it >: to me! > >HOW ABOUT POSTING FOR EVERYONE TO ENJOY? Thanks. > > My wife says I send CW after I eat beans. Mostly strings of dots. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!aimnet.com!netserv.com!pagesat.net!niia.net!usenet From: Rick Rikoski Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!? Date: 17 Dec 1995 00:38:48 GMT Organization: Northern Indiana Internet Access, Inc. Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4avoqq$ivr@gold.niia.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-3.niia.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Macintosh; U; 68K) To: liao@emedia.net X-URL: news:liao-1412952013550001@jliao-b.liao.emedia.net Metal dental fillings supposedly act as diodes rectifying the rf. If the rf levels were that high, I'd get the hell out of there! From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news From: Dave Hockaday Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!? Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:53:28 GMT Organization: News & Observer Public Access Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4b1leo$cag@castle.nando.net> References: <4avoqq$ivr@gold.niia.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: grail505.nando.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) On this topic, I wanted to relate a funny situation that happened in Smithfield NC a number of years ago... There was a lady who lived just up the street from WBZB AM, a 1 kilowatt daytime am station. Suddenly, while washing dishes one day, WBZB began to play from her sink drain. Horrified, she called the police. The police arrived and inspected the underside of her house for trespassers or pranksters. They found nothing, but heard the radio station's broadcast coming from above the floor and seemingly following the drain piping. A plumber was called to determine if a radio had been placed in her drain piping as a prank. The plumber found the music to be originating in the sink trap. Upon removal of the trap, he only found granulated drain cleaner in the trap that had been poured in the night before by the lady's husband. The somewhat bewildered plumber removed the drain cleaner, and the WBZB kitchen sink programing was eliminated. The incedent ran in the local newpaper, and has been a source of amusement by the community for years. 73 de Dave WB4IUY wb4iuy@nando.net From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!sgigate.sgi.com!news1.best.com!pravda.aa.msen.com!news From: jm@drsmesh.com (AA8NF - Joe) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!? Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:06:21 GMT Organization: DRs Mesh, P.C. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <4b1imd$eqd@pravda.aa.msen.com> References: <4avoqq$ivr@gold.niia.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmesh.pnet.msen.com >> Metal dental fillings supposedly act as diodes rectifying the rf. << The silver amalgam filling forms an oxide on its surface in saliva over time. When an upper filling meets a lower with sufficient surface contact a metal oxide metal situation arises. In a high density RF field the diode can demodulate a signal. If you polish the fillings oxide away the diode model disappears... -- Thanks....AA8NF - Joe from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA 12/17/95 12:04 _______________________________________ Always available at: jm@drsmesh.com -or- AA8NF@drsmesh.com Please visit our Web Page at: http://www.drsmesh.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.1 mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/ PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4 vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg== =+hd/ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:01 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!niia.net!usenet From: Rick Rikoski Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna for TV channel 28 Date: 16 Dec 1995 02:14:54 GMT Organization: Northern Indiana Internet Access, Inc. Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4ata2u$iat@gold.niia.net> References: <49po4b$577@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <1995Dec11.080806.26115@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-3.niia.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Macintosh; U; 68K) To: morris@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us X-URL: news:1995Dec11.080806.26115@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us Well you could use a single channel yagi. But a corner reflector will work as well. Also a 4 or 8 bow tie dipole array with reflector works just as well too. And you can find that at the K-Mart. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:02 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!news.cais.com!cais3.cais.com!gttm From: USCG TELECOMMS Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:48:45 -0500 Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <48veer$kg2@news.tamu.edu> <818148838.12251@pinetree.microserve.com> <4aj1n3$dld@bighorn.accessnv.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cais3.cais.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: gttm@cais3.cais.com In-Reply-To: <4aj1n3$dld@bighorn.accessnv.com> On 12 Dec 1995, Charles J. Mishmash wrote: > I have used 12 gauge plastic insulated wire as a full wave 80 meter > delta loop shot over the top of a 70 foot Ash tree with a bow and > weighted arrow. Simply let the wire lay over the apex of the tree, > then tied nylon line to the corners about 10 feet above ground and > stretched the bottom of the triangle between two trees. Worked DXCC > in one season with this arrangement. Hardly noticed any SWR deviations > I had a similar situation for 160. An inverted L with 70'V/100'H bent over a tree crotch. When I measured the R with a Boonton Rx meter it showed 92 ohms (R); after I placed the bend through an insulator at roughly the same height the R dropped by 40 ohms. Crazy isn't it? Ron, W4VR From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:03 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees Date: 13 Dec 1995 19:18:35 GMT Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4an8ub$ou4@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4aj1n3$dld@bighorn.accessnv.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx11-12.teleport.com X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) > mishmash@anv.net (Charles J. Mishmash) writes: ; In article <818148838.12251@pinetree.microserve.com>, ; jackl@pinetree.microserve.com says... ; > ; > g-taylor4@tamu.edu (Greg Taylor) wrote: ; > ; >>Have seen some references to just throwing wires through trees ; >>without insulators etc.....wonder if anybody has any rough parameters ; >>on potential loss etc of this practice. ; > ; I have used 12 gauge plastic insulated wire as a full wave 80 meter ; delta loop shot over the top of a 70 foot Ash tree with a bow and ; weighted arrow. . . I don't know about ash trees, but with conifers a wire, twine, or rope with any tension will quickly cut its way into the tree. In a short period of time (days), you'll find you can't move it or get it down. Shooting the line over a tree is great for temporary portable operation, though. Roy Lewallen, W7EL From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:04 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!news.ossi.com!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!rohrwerk From: rohrwerk@netcom.com (John Seboldt) Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <48veer$kg2@news.tamu.edu> <818148838.12251@pinetree.microserve.com> <4aj1n3$dld@bighorn.accessnv.com> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 05:32:46 GMT Lines: 25 Sender: rohrwerk@netcom23.netcom.com mishmash@anv.net (Charles J. Mishmash) writes: >In article <818148838.12251@pinetree.microserve.com>, >jackl@pinetree.microserve.com says... >> >> g-taylor4@tamu.edu (Greg Taylor) wrote: >> >>>Have seen some references to just throwing wires through trees >>>without insulators etc.....wonder if anybody has any rough parameters >>>on potential loss etc of this practice. >> >I have used 12 gauge plastic insulated wire as a full wave 80 meter >delta loop shot over the top of a 70 foot Ash tree with a bow and >weighted arrow. Simply let the wire lay over the apex of the tree, I've got a 350 foot randomly-shaped horizontal loop, and the highest point goes over a tall Chinese elm -- bare stranded wire with no insulator. THe other corners are insulated... seems pretty effective.... I wouldn't worry about it. : John Seboldt rohrwerk@netcom.com / CW: It don't mean a thing : K0JD... Minneapolis, MN / if it ain't got that swing! : My R2/T2 station described in / Di dah, di dah, di dah, di dah... > http://www.lehigh.edu/lists/qrp-l/k0jd/index.html < From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!atha!rwa From: rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees Date: 16 Dec 1995 22:17:46 GMT Organization: Athabasca University Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4avgia$5c2@aurora.cs.athabascau.ca> References: <4aj1n3$dld@bighorn.accessnv.com> <4an8ub$ou4@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aupair.cs.athabascau.ca X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV) w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: >I don't know about ash trees, but with conifers a wire, twine, or rope >with any tension will quickly cut its way into the tree. In a short >period of time (days), you'll find you can't move it or get it down. >Shooting the line over a tree is great for temporary portable operation, >though. Not to one up Roy, who's definitely an authority, but about ropes in conifers: what's worked for me is to use the rope that you sent up via slingshot/bow/armstrong to pull a pulley and second rope up into the tree. Then it doesn't matter if the first line freezes up, and you won't wear the support rope out when lowering and hoisting the wire. regards, Ross ve6pdq -- Ross Alexander, ve6pdq -- (403) 675 6311 -- rwa@cs.athabascau.ca From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!news.cerf.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!news.trw.com!news2.trw.com!alpha.nafb.trw.com!sysadmin From: Wayne Price Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: artificial ground Date: 13 Dec 1995 17:31:49 GMT Organization: Center for Advanced Hindsight Lines: 38 Message-ID: <4an2m5$ngt@alpha.nafb.trw.com> References: <4affcc$2hi@cloner3.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sp369 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) wdzeares@ix.netcom.com(W. Dennis Zeares ) wrote: >Anyone have experience with the MFJ artificial ground. >How about opinions and ideas about "ground" for a second >floor apt. dweller??? send e-mail direct: wdzeares@ix.netcom.com A short direct ground lead is not possible from the second floor and an artificial ground could help. However a ground at the transmitter is not required except: --When the ground is an integral part of the antenna system (example: tuner fed random length wire) --For safety reasons, such as lightning protection. An artificial ground will not help on safety issues. The test for whether or not a ground is needed is "can the transmitter distinguish between the antenna and a dummy load replacing the antenna". If the transmitter cannot (assuming that the antenna is not some weird contrived example) then a ground is not needed. Many antennas, balanced and unbalanced, exhibit this property. Examples: --Ground mounted vertical (This is what I use from my ungrounded second floor shack) --Ground plane --center fed dipole --Yagis/quads If there is a ground problem("hot mike",etc.) if will be aggravated by higher power. So check out that ungrounded KW carefully. --Wayne W5GIE in Redlands, CA From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:07 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: artificial ground Date: 13 Dec 1995 14:08:19 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 29 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4an8b3$dh3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4an2m5$ngt@alpha.nafb.trw.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Wayne, Boy you hit the nail on the head. An artificial ground sure isn't a safety ground! >The test for whether or not a ground is needed is "can the transmitter >distinguish between the antenna and a dummy load replacing the antenna". >If the transmitter cannot (assuming that the antenna is not some weird >contrived example) then a ground is not needed. Many antennas, balanced >and unbalanced, exhibit this property. >Examples: > >--Ground mounted vertical (This is what I use from my ungrounded second >floor shack) > >--Ground plane > >--center fed dipole > >--Yagis/quads I differ in my opinion on this though. Any antenna that has large electrical mass and a potential difference between itself and any electrical mass connect to it's terminals *may* require a choke balun. I always play it safe and use one on almost every antenna I own, even dipoles and verticals. 73 Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:10 1995 From: nborghetti@msn.com (Natale Borghetti) Subject: RE: backpackable 2m homebrew? Date: 15 Dec 95 10:42:15 -0800 References: <95345.145523BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Message-ID: <00001fea+000018fa@msn.com> Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com) Lines: 1 I really do not understand From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens From: buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: backpackable 2m homebrew? Date: 15 Dec 1995 02:56:02 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4aqo42$9mt@tribune.usask.ca> References: <95345.145523BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] In the 1995 ARRL Radio Amateurs handbook there are plans in chapter 20 for a portable 3-element 2-m beam. It was taken from an April 1993 article from QST. I hope this helps. 73 de VE5RDV Brian BAACK@MAINE.MAINE.EDU wrote: : Hello all, I am looking for a "simple" and I stress simple : design for a quick and dirty 2 meter yagi. 2-5 elements : nothing really fancy just enough to get a decent signal : out using a handheld. My perfect example is something similar : to the designs that radio shack put out in their "Radio" : magazine for a 440 antenna 8 ele. Works GREAT realy easy : to operate and construct. : Any information would greatly be appreciated.. : Thanks, J N1RWY : ***looking forward to Mountain top Field Day!!****** -- Brian Buydens There was a young poet named Dan, Department of Computing Services Whose poetry never would scan. University of Saskatchewan When told this was so, email: Brian.Buydens@usask.ca He said, "Yes, I know. VE5RDV From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!usenet From: kuhl@acsu.buffalo.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Best dual band HT antenna? Date: 13 Dec 1995 16:31:31 GMT Organization: NCEER Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4amv53$alp@azure.acsu.buffalo.edu> Reply-To: Kevin Kuhl NNTP-Posting-Host: electroman.eng.buffalo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII NNTP-Posting-User: kuhl X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6 I am currently using the stock antenna that came with my Kenwood TH-79A dual band (2m 70cm) HT. Iv'e heard it mentioned that there are after market antennas available that improve preformance. Does anyone have any experiences or comments dealing with this subject. Thanks, Kevin KB2WLS From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:12 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!news From: barnaby@world.std.com (Richard Barnaby) Subject: Re: book by Sevick wanted Message-ID: Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Nntp-Posting-Host: world.std.com Organization: Business Support Services X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.113 References: <951213142307@re3mjo> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:59:21 GMT Lines: 27 morourke@newsserver.gmr.com (Mike O'Rourke) wrote: Yes, Amidon has them for sale: Phone 714-850-4660 2nd edition $20.00 73-barnaby >I'm looking for a copy of Jerry Sevicks book >"Transmission Line Transformers" >The book is currently out of print and unavailable >from the ARRL. >Does anyone have a copy that I can buy? > >Mike AA8W >email or >810-986-0223 work >810-986-2033 home > ********************************************************* * Richard Barnaby Business Support Services * * 3230 E. Flamingo Rd #505 * * Las Vegas, NV 89121 * * 800-864-5591 pager AA1IB Amateur Radio * ********************************************************* From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!crc-news.doc.ca!netfs.dnd.ca!nouvelles.e33.dreo.dnd.ca!usenet From: Norm Reed Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Building 220 and 433 MHz Antennas Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:49:20 -0800 Organization: DND/DREO/Airborne Radar Lines: 23 Message-ID: <30CF7490.6C39@abrdr.dreo.dnd.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.136.36.25 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) I want to build 220 and 433 MHz antennas. Preferably yagi's. Does anyone know of freeware or shareware design software that would aid in the process? Thanks and 73 Norm -- =========================================================================Department of National Defence Defence Research Establishment Ottawa Airborne Radar Building T86 3701 Carling Ave. Ottawa, ON, Canada K1A 0K2 +1-613-998-2891 - voice +1-613-990-8906 - fax e-mail: nreed@airsrv.abrdr.dreo.dnd.ca VE3AJI/VE7ALW Theatre is life, film is art, television is furniture ========================================================================= From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.eng.convex.com!not-for-mail From: jco@convex.com (John C. Oppenheimer) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Butternut Vert question Date: 14 Dec 1995 11:23:31 -0600 Organization: Engineering, Convex Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx USA Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4apmij$m3f@orion.convex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: orion.convex.com I have an old Butternut HF 5 V2 of 1979 vintage. It is the old model with a tuning coil for 80 and 40. The manual directs you to put the 80 and 40 coil clamps on a blue mark. My blue marks gone. Does anyone have dimensions for the coils? Is Butternut still around? I have sent this question to them at their new address several weeks ago and have yet to receive a response. John KN5L From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:15 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens From: buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Car AM antennas to 2m (thanks) Date: 14 Dec 1995 02:56:47 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4ao3pf$n2o@tribune.usask.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I would like to say thank you to all who have responded to my post. I was talking to a friend of mine about car antennas and my plans and he suggested that I make a 4/5 lambda rather than 1/4 lambda. Does anyone know what kind of impedance problems I would run into by doing this? 73 de VE5RDV -- Brian Buydens There was a young poet named Dan, Department of Computing Services Whose poetry never would scan. University of Saskatchewan When told this was so, email: Brian.Buydens@usask.ca He said, "Yes, I know. VE5RDV From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens From: "Brian.Buydens@usask.ca" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m (thanks) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:37:46 -0600 Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <4ao3pf$n2o@tribune.usask.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Sorry. When I wrote 4/5 lambda I meant 5/8 lambda ;-) On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Ross Alexander wrote: > In rec.radio.amateur.antenna you write: > > >I would like to say thank you to all who have responded to my post. I was > >talking to a friend of mine about car antennas and my plans and he > >suggested that I make a 4/5 lambda rather than 1/4 lambda. Does anyone > >know what kind of impedance problems I would run into by doing this? > > Can't say what the impedance would be offhand, but the pattern will be > bad. If erected as a vertical over a good groundplane, this will have > its major lobe at around a 45o angle. That's fine for working > airplanes but pretty poor for repeaters. Stick with 1/4 or 5/8 > lambda; they have much lower major lobes (26o and 15o respectively.) > > regards, > Ross ve6pdq > -- > Ross Alexander, ve6pdq -- (403) 675 6311 -- rwa@cs.athabascau.ca > Brian Buydens There was a young poet named Dan, Department of Computing Services Whose poetry never would scan. University of Saskatchewan When told this was so, email: Brian.Buydens@usask.ca He said, "Yes, I know. VE5RDV From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!niia.net!usenet From: Rick Rikoski Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas Date: 16 Dec 1995 02:11:20 GMT Organization: Northern Indiana Internet Access, Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <4at9s8$iat@gold.niia.net> References: <199512120340.VAA22829@home.tri.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-3.niia.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Macintosh; U; 68K) To: stoskopf@tri.NET X-URL: news:199512120340.VAA22829@home.tri.net The easy question first: there are splitters and there are splitters and there are taps. They all look alike. A tap is a divider and won't work at all as a combiner. Most splitters of the coax variety have internal transformers and work as well splitting as combining. Ther are splitters that are guaranteed to be UHF/VHF and others that poop out at 450mHz. Get the broadband ones. The harder question: I use multiple antennas to get lots of tv in the Chicago suburbs: 35 miles across Lake Michigan from the Sears tower. I'm also 120 miles from Milwaukee and about 150 miles from Indy.35 miles from South Bend. It is impossible to combine signals from different directions without using tuned amplifiers. You can use broadband amplifiers and tuned passive combiners, easily bought at MATV stores. Not too expensive. Better yet at hamfests. The wild card is overload and intermod. Unless you have a very good amplifier, the more amplified signals you try to combine, the more likely your combiner-amplifier will go into overload. Generating signals of its own easily received on you tv, sometimes on top of stations that you want to watch.. This is especially noticible when signal levels rise during a duct,or sporadic e. The good news is, you are far enough from enough stations that you can probably get some good tv dx during band openings with out being interfered with by strong local stations, if you use minimal amplification. In closing, I know the narrow band amplifiers mentioned in Popular Electronics 20 years ago. I bought two of them, one low, one high vhf band. Had one of my ee students wire them up. Never could get them to work right. Enjoy your isolation! From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas Date: 16 Dec 1995 11:05:23 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 38 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4auqo3$i93@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4at9s8$iat@gold.niia.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hiu Rick, In article <4at9s8$iat@gold.niia.net>, Rick Rikoski writes: >The easy question first: there are splitters and there are splitters and >there are taps. >They all look alike. A tap is a divider and won't work at all as a combiner. Some of them will! Conventional CATV line distribution taps work equally well as signal insertion devices (at least in the 70's they did). But that's besides a minor point. >The harder question: I use multiple antennas to get lots of tv in the Chicago >suburbs: 35 >miles across Lake Michigan from the Sears tower. I'm also 120 miles from >Milwaukee and >about 150 miles from Indy.35 miles from South Bend. > >It is impossible to combine signals from different directions without using >tuned >amplifiers. You can use broadband amplifiers and tuned passive combiners, >easily bought at >MATV stores. Not too expensive. Better yet at hamfests. And the use of multi-stage passband filters and/or traps!!!! Most amps are not selective enough, and neither are cheap tuned combiners. The filter needs SEVERAL stages of high Q tuned circuits to reject stuff a few channels away (assuming both are in the same low or high band). UHF requires cavities or a stout down converter to VHF where the signal can be filtered by L/C circuits. Even with a good system AGC is required unless you are willing to loose some days to overload! 73 Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:19 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!globe.indirect.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!voder!nsc!st-andrews!scottw From: scottw@st-andrews.nsc.com (Scott C. Walter) Subject: Compressed Smith Chart Message-ID: Sender: news@nsc.nsc.com (netnews maintenance) Nntp-Posting-Host: st-andrews.nsc.com Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:29:46 GMT Lines: 8 [ Article crossposted from sci.physics.electromag ] [ Author was ] [ Posted on Tue, 12 Dec 1995 17:51:21 GMT ] Anybody got a _compressed_ Smith Chart in PostScript form? Thanks, Scott From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!mac78.franklin From: nmoyer@uhl.uiowa.edu (Nelson P. Moyer) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:43:11 -0600 Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA Lines: 5 Distribution: world Message-ID: <9512131643.AA11555@mac78.franklin> References: <4acl2r$mvg@express.ior.com> Reply-To: nmoyer@uhl.uiowa.edu (Nelson P. Moyer) NNTP-Posting-Host: mac78.uhl.uiowa.edu X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.2.1 HyGain recommends Penetrox for their antennas. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gate.net!news-adm From: seven77@gate.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: 14 Dec 1995 15:52:46 GMT Organization: CyberGate, Inc. Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4aph8e$ova@news.gate.net> References: <9512131643.AA11555@mac78.franklin> NNTP-Posting-Host: ftmfl2-29.gate.net X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) > nmoyer@uhl.uiowa.edu (Nelson P. Moyer) writes: > HyGain recommends Penetrox for their antennas. > Ideal, manufactures a product called Noalox which is formulated specifically for aluminum and is conductive, It is an anti-oxidant joint compound. No Al(uminum) Ox(idation) Electricians use it to mate aluminum wire to a copper breaker box connection. I works well on my Ringo. Mike "777" KF4FDJ From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:22 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!usenet From: "Roy D." Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: 14 Dec 1995 17:09:55 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4aplp3$15ea@hearst.cac.psu.edu> References: <9512131643.AA11555@mac78.franklin> <4aph8e$ova@news.gate.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tsppp12.cac.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) seven77@gate.net wrote: >> nmoyer@uhl.uiowa.edu (Nelson P. Moyer) writes: >> HyGain recommends Penetrox for their antennas. >> >Ideal, manufactures a product called Noalox which is formulated specifically for aluminum and is conductive, It is an anti-oxidant >joint compound. No Al(uminum) Ox(idation) > There is another brand called "CuAl Aid". Cu(copper) Al(aluminum) - for making aluminum or copper-to-aluminum connections. All these brands (Penetrox, Noalox, CuAl Aid, etc.) are available at any electrical supply and work very well. In addition, I sprayed my beams with clear urethane after assembly and, after approx. 5 years, they still look like new. Good quality, electrical-grade urethane is also available at a electrical supply. The cheap stuff you can get at Wal-Mart. 73...........KD3LZ -- From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!upei.ca!usenet From: seeler@upei.ca (David C. Seeler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:31:09 GMT Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown, PEI Canada Lines: 29 Message-ID: <30d3e1f5.767370@137.149.3.1> References: <4acl2r$mvg@express.ior.com> Reply-To: Seeler@upei.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: slip60.slip.upei.ca X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 (Joe Pfeuffer) wrote: >Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated. > >73 > In a recent issue of the The Canadian Radio Amateur it was recommended that Dow Corning 55 Silicone Grease be used in connectors to prevent water from getting into the connections. Just a small amount. From what I understand - this is a NON-conductive grease . GE has a similar product called Sel Glyde I believe. They are both dielectrics. Now my question is: If only a small amount is put in the connector and it only fills gaps small and large - I assume that there will be contact between the two connectors making this a useful product for waterproofing the connection internally? TRUE? Any Comments? Regards, Dave Seeler - Vy2DCS Regards, David Seeler, VY2DCS From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet From: charles bolland Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: DEMO DATABASE FOR RADIO BROADCAST STATION IDENT Date: 15 Dec 1995 15:24:57 GMT Organization: Florida Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4as409$c9@news.flinet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb20.flinet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17772 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22658 Hello, I have a Database Demo program which helps identify Radio Broadcast Stations. If you would like a copy, send your Email address and I will send the program via Email. The program runs from DOS and is a stand alone program which needs no other platform to run. It's easy and installs quickly.. Hope to hear from you. Chuck Bolland From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet From: charles bolland Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: DEMO PROGRAM TO IDENT RADIO BROADCAST STATIONS Date: 15 Dec 1995 15:14:42 GMT Organization: Florida Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4as3d2$9e@news.flinet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb20.flinet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Friends, If you would like a DEMO program of Radio Broadcasts Stations FREE! send your Email address to me and I will send the program back via EMAIL. The program is usuable and easy. Loads quickly and is a stand alone program which runs from DOS. Hope to hear from you.... Chuck Bolland From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nw003.infi.net!imci3!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: sparkzz@aol.com (Sparkzz) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work? Date: 15 Dec 1995 02:06:31 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 25 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4ar6pn$f2n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <0099AC68.F3102AB9@netins.net> Reply-To: sparkzz@aol.com (Sparkzz) Sure it will!! I have an attic abt 50 ft long. I put in a 40 meter dipole at the inside peak, and just let the remainder of the wire dangle down to the floor. (My attic is abt 9 feet high at the ridge.) I also took 130 feet of wire, center fed, and zigzagged it through the rafters for 80 meters -- it works acceptably, but is heck to tune. Whereas both antennas work pretty well, they are certainly not as good as outside wire. You might want to make sure all your telephoning is over for the day before you fire up the rig B-) 73's Ken -- KC5HMJ .......................... Ken Luther Systems Analyst New Orleans, La. .......................... From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:27 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: PPICKENS@cris.COM Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Dipole vs. Vertical Date: 17 Dec 95 14:58:04 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 29 Message-ID: <199512171458.JAA15695@franklin-fddi.cris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu I am currently using a G5RV dipole and thinking about adding other dipoles or a multi-band vertical to my collection. I am looking for other hams advise on which should I do. I enjoy using my G5RV for multi-band use with a tuner but most of the signal is being taken by the tuner to get the swr within acceptable range. I have thought about setting up individual dipole's for the most used bands but lack the space so my best option is a multi-band vertical. Which is the best the dipole or vertical? I understand that verticals are noisy and because of the low radiation angle do not do well on local states areas. If I was to chose a vertical, which one would be the one to get? A GAP, Butternut, Cushcraft, Telex-Hygain or etc.? I know that beams would be the way to go but money presently stops me from putting up a tower with beams. At least with a vertical I would be putting most of the power outside on the antenna and not inside on the tuner which I am currently doing with the G5RV. Thanks for any input. 73's Phil AD4WP From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:28 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty and displacement current Date: 16 Dec 1995 12:47:03 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4auf47$ina@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Ian G3SEK says: >It's confusing to talk about "displacement current" flowing between the >driven element and the radials. There is electromagnetic induction between >them, but no flow of current in any meaningful sense: no electrons >flow through the volume between the driven element and the radials. >You can't expect a mixture of genuine currents >(electron flow in/on a conductor) and so-called "displacement >currents" to obey Kirchhoff's law. You are incorrect about displacement current. The current that flows through a capacitor is a displacement current. It does not involve a transfer of electrons, but it is a current. Maxwell's equation based on Ampere's law recognizes the importance of the displacement current. Displacement currents are found in all manner of LCR networks, where Kirchoff is alive and well. Also, Doty's Table 1 and Table 2, with a large number of radials (48) does account for *all* of the current, using his magnetometer which, as the name suggests, apparently measures the H-field. Your comment about the vector addition of the currents bothers me and I am not sure how to square that with Doty's Tables 1 and 2. His technique may have somehow taken that into account. Regarding the "missing" current. A circuit analysis of the *complete* system would probably account for all of it. The complete circuit involves more than just the radials and the earth immediately under them. As you suggest, I am sure that leakage to earth is the crucial factor and those currents would not be measured. These leakages would also involve losses of power that degrade the efficiency. In a complete analysis, Kirchoff would be satisfied only right at the location of the transmitter (we don't know where that was). From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk From: Ian G3SEK Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty and displacement current Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:54:25 +0000 Organization: IFWtech Lines: 113 Message-ID: <471461266wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> References: <4auf47$ina@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Sat, 16 Dec 95 23:05:30 GMT] X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Sat, 16 Dec 95 23:07:06 GMT] Bill W0IYH writes: : : Ian G3SEK says: : : >It's confusing to talk about "displacement current" flowing between the : >driven element and the radials. There is electromagnetic induction between : >them, but no flow of current in any meaningful sense: no electrons : >flow through the volume between the driven element and the radials. : >You can't expect a mixture of genuine currents : >(electron flow in/on a conductor) and so-called "displacement : >currents" to obey Kirchhoff's law. : : You are incorrect about displacement current. The current that flows : through a capacitor is a displacement current. It does not involve a : transfer of electrons, but it is a current. Maxwell's equation based on : Ampere's law recognizes the importance of the displacement current. : Displacement currents are found in all manner of LCR networks, : where Kirchoff is alive and well. Sorry, Bill, I can't agree completely with that. (Please excuse the long and detailed explanation that follows - I didn't have time to write it any shorter :-) Displacement currents do indeed flow through capacitors - but they flow quite literally *inside*, within the dielectric. What flows in the two connecting leads is a completely different *kind* of current. When electrons flow into one lead of a capacitor, the same number of electrons flow out from the other. We know that this is achieved by field effects within the dielectric, and that no electrons are actually transported though an ideal dielectric. However, if we always insisted on that level of detail, we'd have to drag electric field theory into the analysis of every circuit involving a capacitor. To avoid this, it's convenient to visualize a "special type of current" that flows through the dielectric to complete the circuit. We call it "displacement current", but it's vital to remember that we're using the word "current" in two totally different senses. Ordinary current involves transport of real electrons; "displacement current" does not - it's really a field effect. That's why it is not valid to sum displacement currents and conventional currents at any network node - they are two completely different phenomena. Kirchhoff's law applies *only* to the kind of current that is a physical flow of electrons in a conductor. It's exactly like the flow of water in a pipe. If K's law did not apply to a network of conductors, it would imply that electrons are being either added or lost at some network nodes. "Displacement current" cannot be providing or removing electrons because that's not how it works - in a vacuum dielectric, it doesn't even *use* electrons! If various parts of the network are electromagnetically coupled, as in an antenna, then the coupling will modify the overall current distribution in the conductors. That's where Maxwell's equation enters the picture. But the modified current distribution still has to be consistent with K's law, which continues to be valid at any point along any conductor, anywhere, anytime. Gasp... that's my best shot for this evening at explaining my point of view. As ever, it's open to correction. Turning back to the main subject, what started us on this track was the apparent suggestion that displacement currents into the earth could be a reason for the sum of the currents in the radials not equalling the current in the vertical. As explained above, I don't think there ever can be any genuinely "missing" current at the feedpoint. Kirchhoff's law is the one thing we can *totally* rely on - so we then have to go looking for some other reason for the discrepancy. : Also, Doty's Table 1 and Table 2, with a large number of radials (48) : does account for *all* of the current, using his magnetometer which, : as the name suggests, apparently measures the H-field. : : Your comment about the vector addition of the currents bothers me : and I am not sure how to square that with Doty's Tables 1 and 2. : His technique may have somehow taken that into account. Nowhere does the QST article mention that *vector* current measurements were made. [The instrument used is referenced to Ham Radio, June 1979, if anyone would like to nail that point down for certain.] The convergence on 100% current collection with increasing number of radials (Tables 1 and 2) can be at least partly explained by the fact that the antenna was deliberately placed off-centre so that all the radials would be of different lengths. For all practical purposes the lengths were random and the phases of the currents will vary from one radial to the next. Thus, the more radials there are in the system, the better the sum of the scalar measurements will tend to average towards the correct value. On an extra day's reflection, Bill, I'm not sure that variations between the phases of currents in different radials would be large enough to invalidate the general trend of Doty's results based on scalar measurements - it's a potential source of errors, but it would need some very large phase variations to make a serious difference. So, where else to look? What really worries me about Table 2 is the result for "0 radials" (two 8ft ground rods) which quotes the measured return current as 86% of the antenna current. By K's law, how can this be anything other than exactly 100% ? Like Tom, I'd feel much more comfortable if there was some mention - somewhere, anywhere - of feedline chokes. 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty article Date: 14 Dec 1995 18:17:57 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 22 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4appol$12s4@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us W8JI, Tom says, >Hi Bill, >I think this was a CQ article, not QST. The article is in February 1983 QST. I have that issue here in front of me. It mentions the magnetometer that he used. The current that flows into the vertical radiator and returns to the source can only flow through the intervening "space" between the radiator and the ground return or radials. These currents are called "displacement" currents, as compared to "wire" currents. The radiation resistance is part of this closed path. If this were not true the radial current would be zero. If the radial system is inadequate some of these return currents are via a lossy earth path. It is these electrostatic and induction fields, the so-called "near fields" that "launch" the wave into space. The efficiency of this launching process determines the strength of the "far field", according to a book "VLF Radio Engineering" that I have been briefly looking at. Does any of this agree with your understanding? From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:33 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article Date: 14 Dec 1995 17:03:05 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 68 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aq6up$ms@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4appol$12s4@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Bill, This is an interesting thing to discuss. I didn't have that issue of QST, I only read something about it in a CQ article. In article <4appol$12s4@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: >The current that flows into the vertical radiator and returns to >the source can only flow through the intervening "space" between >the radiator and the ground return or radials. These currents >are called "displacement" currents, as compared to "wire" currents. >The radiation resistance is part of this closed path. If this >were not true the radial current would be zero. If the radial system >is inadequate some of these return currents are via a lossy earth path. > >It is these electrostatic and induction fields, the so-called "near fields" >that "launch" the wave into space. The efficiency of this launching >process determines the strength of the "far field", according to a >book "VLF Radio Engineering" that I have been briefly looking at. > >Does any of this agree with your understanding? > Yes, but no. Jargon like that is a bit confusing. The reason I avoid that description is it tends to make us think of the antenna as a circuit that requires an earth connection for completion. I suspect jargon like that confused Doty. He took it literally and assumed insulating radials from earth would "break" the circuit. He assumed this in spite of the antenna and radials remaining in the same position with respect to earth. The theory presented is the addition of a few thousandth's of an inch of insulation to the radials "breaks the circuit" and prevents the lossy earth from being part of the "circuit". It just doesn't work that way. That is similar to claiming a wire in a transmitter can be shielded by adding insulation. Electric field effects aren't "blocked" by insulation, neither are magnetic field effects. The lossy earth still has currents induced in it by the magnetic and electric fields. It will have loss even if these currents don't "flow" anywhere. Case in point, the dipole. A properly fed dipole has absolutely no "return path" or connection to earth, yet the earth below it contributes substantially to system loss if the antenna is anywhere near earth. Adding insulation over the earth won't help this, only a "shield" of highly conductive material between the earth and the dipole will eliminate the loss. Finally consider two conductors that parallel each other for a long distance. One is excited with RF. If the parallel distance is a long fraction of a wavelength and the separation is small, the coupling is very tight. Adding insulation, or electrically bonding the conductors together will barely change things. With that in mind, what possible difference can a few thousanths of an inch of insulation make in a 100 foot long radial? What difference can adding a few inches or even a few feet of air spacing make in the coupling in this example? That's why I look at this as two issues. One is providing some mass for the feedline to "push against", the other is the "shielding" effect the radials have between the lossy earth and the radiator, even if it's a dipole! What do you think? Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty article Date: 15 Dec 1995 00:24:21 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4aqf7l$ltg@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Hi Tom, I will add a few more words, but I hope you and the other readers will keep my non-expert status in mind. As I see it, every "linear" antenna requires a reference plane of some kind to "launch" a wave into space. The Marconi vertical uses a ground plane of some kind. In the half wave dipole each side of the dipole acts as a counterpoise, or reference, for the other side. In other words the dipole is a self-contained system, whereas the Marconi type requires a ground plane. That may be where the idea of the "underground image" got started. In the dipole the near field that launches the wave exists between the two halves. In the Marconi the earth or radials or ground screen serves this purpose. Many of the things that Doty did are beyond my knowledge, and I am trying to stay focused on the one issue regarding a possible explanation of the difference between radiator current and radial current. My feeling is that the radial current should be less than the radiator current. A complete accounting of the entire large-scale system would probably account for the "missing" current. I think the theory is pretty clear on this issue. >It is these electrostatic and induction fields, the so-called "near >fields" that launch a wave into space. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article Date: 14 Dec 1995 21:10:41 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 59 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aqlf1$73o@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4aqf7l$ltg@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hello Again Bill, In article <4aqf7l$ltg@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: >As I see it, every "linear" antenna requires a reference plane >of some kind to "launch" a wave into space. The Marconi vertical >uses a ground plane of some kind. In the half wave dipole each >side of the dipole acts as a counterpoise, or reference, for >the other side. In other words the dipole is a self-contained >system, whereas the Marconi type requires a ground plane. That >may be where the idea of the "underground image" got started. How does a small loop in space fit this description? It's a small closed conductor with nearly linear current distribution. Here are the problems. To generate a magnetic field, current must flow. To generate an electric field, a potential difference must occur between two separated points. To generate an electromagnetic wave, this must happen rapidly. This all takes two terminals. The terminals must have a finite impedance in relationship to each other, either from having a direct connection or enough electrical "mass" to allow charging and discharging by the generator. The rapidly changing potential difference at the terminals will make current flow, and electric, magnetic, and electromagnetic fields will develop. >In the dipole the near field that launches the wave exists >between the two halves. In the Marconi the earth or radials >or ground screen serves this purpose. This may be a difference of descriptions. It's like the fable about blind men describing an elephant, hi. I don't "see it" as a wave that is launched, I view it as an effect that occurs when we move electrons. >Many of the things that Doty did are beyond my knowledge, and I >am trying to stay focused on the one issue regarding a possible >explanation of the difference between radiator current and radial >current. OK. Let's drop the rest. >My feeling is that the radial current should be less >than the radiator current. Can the current at the terminals of a generator be different at each terminal? With no additional "ground", the sum of all currents flowing from the radials to the common point at the feedline must equal the total current flowing at the base of the vertical. If that isn't true, the transmission line must have parallel (common mode) current on it. If the transmission line has common mode current flow, it will radiate. That was an obvious flaw in the measurements. Even without that flaw, the current measurements proved nothing. The argument was efficiency improved, and that can only be proven by knowing the applied power and the total power in the radiated field. Those parameters were never measured. 73 Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty article and Ian's response Date: 17 Dec 1995 15:18:14 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 41 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4b1cbm$fkc@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Good Morning Ian, The current through a capacitor is due to the rate of change of voltage across the capacitor. This current is a perfectly valid current in any kind of LCR network, including an antenna. Your countryman, Mr Maxwell, used this displacement current, in free space, along with another of his equations, based on Faraday, to derive the wave equation that predicted electromagnetic radiation and also the speed of light. The displacement current is as real as anything can be. The displacement current within the capacitor and the coventional current that flows external to the capacitor are indistinguishable from each other. They are the same current. This current, whether in a wire or in empty space, produces an H field (magnetizing force). A common usage of this capacitance in an antenna is the top loading disk or sphere. Its self-capacitance tunes the antenna to a lower frequency. The displacement currents that exist between the disk and the space around it are reactive (capacitive) in nature. After thinking about Doty's measurements I am sure he did the following: Tie all the radials together at the base of the radiator and measure the *total* radial current. Compare that with the radiator curent. I believe that makes sense. In the case of zero radials the ground current that he measured is only that part of the ground current that returned to the ground rods. The ground is so dispersive in nature that it is reasonable to assume that some of the current would return to the generator by devious routes. I think it is just that simple. These devious routes would also be lossy. Kirchoff insists that all of the return current be accounted for, but I don't think I want to get deeply involved in that exercise because it involves things that I am not competent to discuss. The ARRL Antenna Book 17th Edition has some interesting discussions in which Doty's work and Sevick's work seem to lead to about the same general conclusions. The elevated counterpoise seems to be favored, and the Ground Plane Antenna, in particular, likes to be well removed from ground so that it becomes a self-contained system. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Date: 14 Dec 1995 12:07:25 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 47 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aplkd$ir0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4amuqo$1cna@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Bill, I think this was a CQ article, not QST. In article <4amuqo$1cna@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: >I have two questions about the Doty article: > >1) Is it really true that the radial return current *must* > equal the current in the vertical rod? Isn't some of the > return current diverted from the radials to the earth > underneath by capacitive coupling, as Doty claims? Isn't > there a potential difference between radials and the > earth that would cause displacement currents to flow > to ground and not through the measuring instrument? Yes, the current must be equal. It's a two terminal series circuit. Visualize a floating generator moved to the base terminals of the vertical. The generator must have the same current flow at each terminal. The radials, at the generator connection, must divide the current from that terminal. We simply can't "loose" current. If current is "missing", it must be flowing in another connection to that terminal. The feeder was the only other connection to the antenna terminals. Either it parallel currents, or the current values in radial current measurements were incorrect. If the feeder had parallel current, it was part of the radiating system and all radial current measurements were invalid. >2) Doesn't some of the radiator current return to ground well > beyond the radial system? The popular concept current flows out from the radiator and "returns through the earth" to the radials by capacitive or direct coupling confuses, misleads, and misinforms people. Current doesn't "flow" through space from an antenna like water spraying from a hose. It isn't "collected" in a bucket or catch basin and "piped" back to the antenna through the ground. The article's claim is efficiency improves or changes. Why didn't he measure antenna efficiency? Direct measurement, when possible, is *always* the best approach. I fail to understand why anyone would make a thousand current measurements with a home made clamp on meter, when the entire issue could have been resolved with a field strength meter and ten or twenty measurement points. 73 Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!sparky!nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us!usenet From: mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us (Gary McDuffie, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:48:27 GMT Organization: AG0N's Radio Ranch Lines: 51 Message-ID: <30d3a21d.45967721@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us> References: <474152917wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> <4atmec$9rd@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.206.239.243 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 On 16 Dec 1995 00:45:48 -0500, w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: I feel out of place joining into this thread that is obviously way over my head, but I'm reading and trying to learn. > As an additional comment: When Chrisman tested an elevated ground system, > field strength improved without a choke in the feedline, and decreased > when a choke was installed. The choke's only function is to prevent the > feeder and transmitter system from being part of the vertcal's ground. The > supposition is four elevated radials form an ideal ground, equal to 120 > radials. If the supposition is true, why is FS increased over one dB when > the choke is removed and earth connections become part of the system? That > either indicates efficiency goes over 100% without a choke, or elevated > radials are not 100% efficient because the poor ground to the transmitter > helps the system!! Tom, Roy, whoever - Assuming there were four 1/4wl radials, to me, it seems the transmission line shield becomes another radial, or at least part of the ground system unless it is choked. But, where would the choke be? With such a minimal radial system, assuming the coax left the antenna at the same point that the radials did, would adding a choke at the 1/4wl (from the base) point make the system perform like a 5 radial system? Or, would it matter? If the choke is put at the feedpoint, isn't there coupling from the radials to the coax as it exits? Adding to the question, would the answers change from elevated to on-the-ground radial system? Further.. I liked the G3's explanation (I could understand part of that!). Is he right? Are you close enough to the knee if you maintain that .02wl maximum spacing at the ends of the radials? If so, determining what your maximum diameter circle is, and putting in whatever number it takes to achieve the .02wl spacing at the tips would be the "best" you could do? Lastly.. What effect would it have to drive ground rods at the ends of your radials? Okay, so sixty ground rods would be a pain. But, what about several of them equally spaced around the perimeter and tied to it? An inquiring mind wants to know (;^) > If you look again at the VLF antennas you mentioned, you will > see that the efficiency of those arrays improves with star type grounding > systems that connect directly to the earth. Is that like my question about grounding the perimeter? If so, what is the effect of radial length? Would grounding 1/8wl radial tips have more effect than grounding 1/4wl radials? Or, does it always boil down to an absolute formula... THE MORE YOU HAVE = BETTER ? __ _ __ __ / _ _ _ __ /_| / _ / )/| ) (__)(// (/ ( |(__)(__// |/ / mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Date: 17 Dec 1995 10:35:39 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 82 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b1dcb$dq0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <30d3a21d.45967721@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Gary, In article <30d3a21d.45967721@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us>, mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us (Gary McDuffie, Sr.) writes: >Tom, Roy, whoever - Assuming there were four 1/4wl radials, to me, it seems >the transmission line shield becomes another radial, or at least part of >the ground system unless it is choked. But, where would the choke be? Good picture! The best place for the choke is at the feedpoint, but to be safe I always use at least two chokes when making measurements. I choke the feedline at the feedpoint, and again when the feedline leaves the vicinity of the radial system. If the simple addition of a choke balun changes anything in the vertical's behavior (assume a good choke and flat line SWR), you can be almost perfectly sure the ground system is not perfect and could stand improvement. >With such a minimal radial system, assuming the coax left the antenna at >the same point that the radials did, would adding a choke at the 1/4wl >(from the base) point make the system perform like a 5 radial system? Yes, definitely. Even without the choke it would look like a 5 radial system. The feedline "radial" would tie to your station and eventually the power lines, etc! >would it matter? If the choke is put at the feedpoint, isn't there >coupling from the radials to the coax as it exits? Yes, and from antenna "field" effects. >Adding to the question, >would the answers change from elevated to on-the-ground radial system? No. When the feedline exits at a point where, if you were standing there and could see electrons moving, you would see exactly equal numbers moving perfectly in step the exact same distance in exactly opposite directions at the same instant of time field coupled effects are zero. That is another way of saying in the null, hi! Under that condition adding a choke balun at the feedpoint would make the feedline "invisible". As the ground system is improved, the effects of the feedline (and station) on the antenna system diminish as the ground system is improved. Especially if the feedline exits the area of the antenna *below* the ground system. >Further.. I liked the G3's explanation (I could understand part of that!). >Is he right? Are you close enough to the knee if you maintain that .02wl >maximum spacing at the ends of the radials? Ian has a wonderful way of explaining it! But how perfect is perfect? If the earth "sees" no moving electrons, there can be no induced effects. Visualize what the earth would see if a four radial system were elevated many times the radial and antenna length straight up. It couldn't see the radiator current (the electrons would be moving away and closer from end view, so they wouldn't appear to be moving much). The earth couldn't see the radial current (it would all be moving opposite directions, equal, etc). The distance where this all looks like this is coming from a single point in space is the far field distance, and four radials would behave perfectly at that height. Move the antenna closer to earth, and losses pick right up. Any given point on the earth below the antenna is much closer to one radial that the others. We would need more radials to reduce the current in each one! Eventually the radials would be dense enought to "shield" the earth from the antenna. But even placing the antenna in space does not eliminate the need for feedline decoupling when only a few radials are used. Unwanted current will flow on the feeder from the direct connection to the feedpoint voltage. >....maximum diameter circle is, and putting in whatever number it takes to >achieve the .02wl spacing at the tips would be the "best" you could do? I agree if we understand "best" is subject to the trade-off of cost and return, hi. It is a lot more than a slob would consider perfect, and less than a fellow who places socks neatly in order in the clothes hamper would be happy with. ;-) >Lastly.. What effect would it have to driv From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nw003.infi.net!imci3!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet From: rfreeman@earthlink.net (Richard Freeman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Fix your MFJ Mod. 986 Tuner before it breaks Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 03:20:17 GMT Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <30d23620.1509448@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tsa-oc-21.earthlink.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 To all hams: If you have a MFJ tuner Mod. 986, the shaft in the roller inductor may break at any time. The problem is the hole in the front panel is slightly higher than it should be so the shaft is bent all the time. To correct this 4 washers need to be put under the roller inductor to raise it to match the front panel hole. I drilled holes in four pennies and used them. They seemed to be just the right size. Doing this will save you the $55+ fee that MFJ charges for a new roller inductor when the shaft breaks. Yes, MFJ is aware of this design flaw. Post any questions. Richard, KB6CEA From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!Germany.EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Robert Hřyvald <72242.477@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,uk.radio.amateur Subject: For Sale TM-742a w/UT-50 Date: 15 Dec 1995 19:17:29 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4ashk9$ght$1@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17745 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22624 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12178 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95653 uk.radio.amateur:9665 To all: I have a Kenwood TM-742a for sale right out of the box with all docs and warranties. It is only three months old . Included is the DFK-7 kit, TSU-7 decoder, and the UT50s module for the extra 50mhz band, and the Comet SSB-15 tribander antenna as a complete package for $900.00 plus shipping. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this unit and the accessories, it has very little TX time less than an hour, and receive of not more than three hours. Please E-mail all inquiries to 72242,477 KB2UWJ From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.third-wave.com!usenet From: val48@third-wave.com (Gary Valentine) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: For Sale: Hy-Gain TH6-DXX Date: 15 Dec 1995 19:45:31 GMT Organization: Third Wave Development Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4asj8r$8ji@news.third-wave.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp7.third-wave.com X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6 My name is Gary Valentine. My call sign is N3EVP. I have a Hy-Gain TH6-DXX "Super Thunderbird" for sale. It is undamaged but was in use for 5 years on a 30 foot tower located in Pennsylvania. It worked well for me but I am selling it now because my father, W3VWA, became a silent key 6 years ago and I inherited all his equipment which is better than mine. I am asking $475. The specifications of the TH6-DXX are as follows: 1) Input impedance - 52 ohms 2) Forward gain - 10 meters=9.5, 15 meters=8.5 and 20 meters=8.0 dB 3) Front to Back ratio - 25 dB 4) Max. power input - 1000 watts 5) Boom length - 24 feet 6) Longest element - 31 feet My QTH is in Pennsylvania.. Reply by E-mail (val48@third-wave.com) or land line (814-893-5696). From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:46 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu!afn17891 From: "Thomas W. Castle" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Grounding problem with G5RV? Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 04:03:35 -0500 Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <4an0g7$h86@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet2.afn.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: afn17891@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu In-Reply-To: <4an0g7$h86@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> In regards to your problem with the G5RV antenna: Most of the G5RV's I've seen or read about, usually call for about 80' or more of coax connected to the ladder wire. You didn't say much about the coax or length an type of ladder wire your using....? The usuall configurations I've seen are: the flat top or wire portion is usually 51' x 2 or 102foot overall. the ladder wire is usually 300ohm at about 29'6" in length. this coupled with 75-80 or more feet of RG-8x <50-52ohm> or 75ohm coax. If your G5RV has 450ohm ladder wire connecting to the flat top an coax; it is usually about 17' or 32'6" in length depending on who's specs' you go by. To me the best bet is to run the ladder wire straight to the antenna tuner an skip the coax altogether. That is sometimes easier said than done. A good ground is essential for a tuner; since your dealing with ground freez; you could add 2 or 3 more short ones to what you already have. The military mobile radio units us about 7-8 ground rods of varing length, spaced out over a small area; to get a good cumlative ground. Hope this helps De Tom KD4QHH From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Grounding problem with G5RV? Date: 15 Dec 1995 15:58:56 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4as600$141t@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: <4an0g7$h86@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article <4an0g7$h86@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>, Chris Dorn wrote: >comments on this, and has anyone else had problems like this with a G5RV >and solid state vs. tube rigs? Hi Chris, since the G5RV is a balanced dipole-type antenna, it should not require a ground. I can't tell a bit of difference in the characteristics of my non-resonant dipole whether the system is grounded or not. IMO, the major problem that most people have is they don't know what impedances they are dealing with. A simple pickup loop and a voltmeter will tell you what you need to know. Then a series or parallel cap, coil, or stub will generally swing the impedance to a value that allows high efficiency out of the antenna tuner. Just outside my hamshack window, I have a knife-switch in the ladder-line that switches series caps in for 40m and out for the other bands. Inside the shack, I have a knife-switch that switches ten feet of ladder-line in for 10m and 20m and out for 17m. This gives very close to 1:1 SWR on my favorite bands. I get optimum performance out of my antenna because I took a half day to make some simple measurements. Why dink around for weeks with hit-or-miss cut-and-try trial-and-error techniques? 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ddi2.digital.net!usenet From: spindler@digital.net (Rick Spindler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help on Freespace Path Loss Date: 15 Dec 1995 00:44:17 GMT Organization: florida online Lines: 2 Message-ID: <4aqgd1$ft5@ddi2.digital.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: @pm2_8.digital.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ Can somebody shoot me the formula for free space path loss of a radio signal? Your assistance is much appreciated. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:49 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!ieunet!news.tcd.ie!usenet From: butler@ee.tcd.ie Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.tcd.ie (TCD News System ) Organization: Teltec, MEE, Trinity College Dublin X-Newsreader: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:57:31 GMT Lines: 12 In article <4aqgd1$ft5@ddi2.digital.net>, spindler@digital.net (Rick Spindler) writes: >Can somebody shoot me the formula for free space path loss of a radio signal? >Your assistance is much appreciated. loss (in dB) = 32.44+20*log10(F(MHz))+20*log10(D(km)) Dr. Gerry Butler, CEng. MIEE. [butler@ee.tcd.ie] TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin 2,Ireland Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering, [ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ] From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: curtis epps <103165.3227@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.swap Subject: I.D. Timers Date: 14 Dec 1995 22:04:43 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4aq71r$2jn$1@mhafc.production.compuserve.com> Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17698 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22555 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12136 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95594 rec.radio.swap:53056 I.D. Timers: Battery powered quartz countdown timer with alarm. Auto re-set/auto re-start for no touch opperation and no loss in time between ten minute ID cycles with the auto re-start. L.C. display shows minutes remaining in countdown. High acuracy less than +4 seconds per week of continuous duty. Aprox 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/2 inches; watch battery included. Timer has spring loaded magnetic clip for dash board or visor mounting for mobil use, swing down metal bail converts clip to easel stand for base opperation. Timers sold nationally for $35.00. Special price $20.00 shiped UPS ground. Checks OK. Curtis Epps (KB4WUB) 1553 Mackerel Ave.-Sarasota, FL 34237 -- C.EPPS From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:51 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,uk.radio.amateur Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.roundabout.org!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!egroen From: egroen@inter.NL.net (Enno Groen) Subject: Re: IC706 Message-ID: Organization: NLnet References: <47n930$a3k$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> <818855458snz@serco-wr.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:32:19 GMT Lines: 6 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17671 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22496 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95534 uk.radio.amateur:9621 Why don't you look for a 775 ft1000 or new Kenwood if you don't like small?? I don't want such an elephant on my desk for sure... 73 Enno From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!usenet From: miglia@ix.netcom.com Newsgroups: soc.culture.venezuela,soc.culture.uruguay,soc.culture.spain,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.mexican.american,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.ecuador,soc.culture.cuba,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.argentina,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Ingrese Via Internet a las Repetidoras de California Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 09:04:49 PST Organization: Network Intensive Lines: 35 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: miglia1.gmtech.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Xref: news.epix.net soc.culture.venezuela:43381 soc.culture.uruguay:4679 soc.culture.spain:83662 soc.culture.peru:11027 soc.culture.mexican.american:7900 soc.culture.latin-america:39857 soc.culture.ecuador:4269 soc.culture.cuba:31797 soc.culture.colombia:12539 soc.culture.chile:32380 soc.culture.bolivia:10745 soc.culture.argentina:28860 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32223 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95698 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12209 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22661 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13177 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17776 RADIOAFICIONADOS DX's VIA INTERNET CON LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA Es fantastico escuchar como radioaficionados de todas partes del mundo utilizan los repetidores de VHF y UHF del sur de California (En Espanol) ingresando por medio de INTERNET, ademas en muchas ocaciones nuestras maquinas de 2 Metros, 220 Mhz, 440Mhz y 1.2 Ghz estuvieron interconectadas con maquinas similares, por horas, en otras partes del mundo permitiendo realizar Dx's con un pequeno equipo de mano. Para realizar un INTERNET/REPEATER LINK con los repetidoras de habla hispana de sur de California debes contar con los siguientes elementos: - Cuenta en Internet del tipo PPP. - Computador 486 DX2 66mhz 8 MB con tarjeta de sonido. - Modem de 14,400 Bauds. - Programa Iphone (Internet Phone: http://www.vocaltec.com). Si ya estas listo o te hace falta ayuda envia un E-Mail a: miglia1@gmtech.com Y adjunta los siguientes datos: Letras/Call: Nombre y Apellido: Pais y Ciudad: E-Mail: 73's de AC6RB George Migliarini From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:53 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: 13 Dec 1995 04:54:44 GMT Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4almak$2a3@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4ahmhm$1f94@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-45.teleport.com X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) >. . . > In a length of time shorter that what it took to erect the antenna, I was > able to find out everything about it with nothing more than a very simple > pickup loop and a voltmeter. That's a real advantage that ladder-line has > over coax. > The SWRs were about 60% lower than predicted by ELNEC. The velocity factor > of the 300 ohm ladder-line was about 0.78 rather than the advertised 0.88 > 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) Nice use of a "slotted line"! The .78 velocity factor is interesting, because that's very close to what I've measured for TV twinlead. This means that the holes don't do much and there's a lot of dielectric in the field. I'd expect from this that ladder line would therefore be about as bad as flat TV twinlead when it's wet -- and that's bad indeed! Roy Lewallen, W7EL From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.accessus.net!news.uoregon.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!not-for-mail From: wvanhorn@freenet.columbus.oh.us (W VanHorne) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: 15 Dec 1995 06:14:53 -0500 Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4arlbd$110@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us> References: <4ahmhm$1f94@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4almak$2a3@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us ReplyTo: wvanho@infinet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Roy Lewallen (w7el@teleport.com) wrote: : : > The SWRs were about 60% lower than predicted by ELNEC. The velocity factor : > of the 300 ohm ladder-line was about 0.78 rather than the advertised 0.88 : : > 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) : Nice use of a "slotted line"! The .78 velocity factor is interesting, : because that's very close to what I've measured for TV twinlead. This means : that the holes don't do much and there's a lot of dielectric in the field. : I'd expect from this that ladder line would therefore be about as bad as : flat TV twinlead when it's wet -- and that's bad indeed! : Roy Lewallen, W7EL This is an interesting thread. Thanks to both KG7BK and W7EL. Not only is there a lot of dielectric between the wires - there is a great deal more plastic than needed for mechanical strength. I wonder what would happen if one took a "railroad conductor's punch" and punched out holes all along the web, leaving only enough PE to keep the wires together. 73, Van - W8UOF wvanho@infinet.com From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:56 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:22:14 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 38 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4asiae$s4a@crash.microserve.net> References: <4ahmhm$1f94@chnews.ch.intel.com> <4almak$2a3@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) wrote: >Nice use of a "slotted line"! The .78 velocity factor is interesting, >because that's very close to what I've measured for TV twinlead. This >means that the holes don't do much and there's a lot of dielectric in >the field. I'd expect from this that ladder line would therefore be >about as bad as flat TV twinlead when it's wet -- and that's bad >indeed! I have about a hundred feet of "window" ladder line running to my antenna. The settings of the tuner change *considerably* when it rains. Last night I also experienced a new problem. We had quite a bit of snow the night before, and yesterday morning it rained, coating everything with a thin film of ice. Tuning up the ampifier last night on 80 meters, it was impossible to keep the SWR constant. Holding down the key caused the SWR to slowly drift upwards, and the change over ten or fifteen seconds was significant. It never stabilized completely, but it finally settled down a little after an hour or two of operating. In the middle of this, I ran across a group on 75M who were all using balanced feeders. They had all experienced the same thing in the past, and except for one guy, had changed to open wire. The guy who kept his window line changed his dipole to a loop, and he uses a Variac and a 25 volt filament transformer in the shack to heat the loop and line, which melts off the ice. Unfortunately, I can't easily work on the antenna this time of year, so I'm stuck with the problem until spring. Wish I'd known about all this earlier. :( Does anyone sell open wire line, or should I start collecting the materials to build my own? 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!newssinet!news.nc.u-tokyo.ac.jp!wnoc-tyo-news!news.join.ad.jp!news.caren.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: 16 Dec 1995 01:21:18 GMT Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software Lines: 43 Message-ID: <4at6ue$lo9@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4asiae$s4a@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-29.teleport.com X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) ; jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: ; w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) wrote: ; ; >Nice use of a "slotted line"! The .78 velocity factor is interesting, ; >because that's very close to what I've measured for TV twinlead. This ; >means that the holes don't do much and there's a lot of dielectric in ; >the field. I'd expect from this that ladder line would therefore be ; >about as bad as flat TV twinlead when it's wet -- and that's bad ; >indeed! ; ; I have about a hundred feet of "window" ladder line running to my ; antenna. The settings of the tuner change *considerably* when it ; rains. ; ; Last night I also experienced a new problem. We had quite a bit of ; snow the night before, and yesterday morning it rained, coating ; everything with a thin film of ice. Tuning up the ampifier last ; night on 80 meters, it was impossible to keep the SWR constant. ; Holding down the key caused the SWR to slowly drift upwards, and the ; change over ten or fifteen seconds was significant. It never ; stabilized completely, but it finally settled down a little after an ; hour or two of operating. ;. . . Here are some measurements I made years ago and published in QST's Technical Correspondence in Feb. 1982. I measured the matched loss of 100 feet of flat 300 ohm TV twinlead on 21 MHz. Dry: 0.8 dB After a light rain following two weeks of dry weather: 3.7 dB During hard rain: 2.4 dB, slowly decreasing to 1.5 dB (the decrease presumably due to the cable being "washed") Laid on a wet wooden deck: 2.6 dB Coiled: 4.4 dB RG-58 loss at this frequency is about 1.9 dB. If "ladder line" is anything like this, it wouldn't be wise to consider "ladder line" a substitute for open-wire line. Roy Lewallen, W7EL From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: 16 Dec 1995 11:06:51 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 21 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4auqqr$i9h@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4at6ue$lo9@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4at6ue$lo9@maureen.teleport.com>, w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: > >If "ladder line" is anything like this, it wouldn't be wise to consider >"ladder line" a substitute for open-wire line. > >Roy Lewallen, W7EL > > > It would be interesting to measure some wet. I've never done that. It isn't too bad dry, but then..... Perhaps you are right, maybe wet the loss is pretty high. After all, 50% of the wire to wire insulation is there. Insulation remains around the point of maximum electric field concentration 100% of the length, since the wires are coated! Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usenet From: Wes Stewart Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: 17 Dec 1995 00:46:29 GMT Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET Lines: 32 Message-ID: <4avp95$6jh@news.azstarnet.com> References: <4at6ue$lo9@maureen.teleport.com> <4auqqr$i9h@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr6ip25.azstarnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >In article <4at6ue$lo9@maureen.teleport.com>, w7el@teleport.com (Roy >Lewallen) writes: [snip] >It would be interesting to measure some wet. I've never done that. It >isn't too bad dry, but then..... > >Perhaps you are right, maybe wet the loss is pretty high. After all, 50% >of the wire to wire insulation is there. Insulation remains around the >point of maximum electric field concentration 100% of the length, since >the wires are coated! > >Tom Tom, I am certainly not a fan of ladder line. I believe that it is highly over-rated, and have been saying so since QST published "The Lure of the Ladder Line" and got me to take a hard look at the claims. That said... do you believe it matters that much that the portion of the wire between the poly "rungs", ie the "window" portion is insulated? Regards, Wes From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!mindless!gary.rawson From: gary.rawson@mindless.org (GARY RAWSON) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Message-ID: <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 13:01:00 -0400 Distribution: world Organization: The MindLess One's BBS * Weirton, WV * 304-723-2133 Reply-To: gary.rawson@mindless.org (GARY RAWSON) References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 32 Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15 characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go the more characters I miss. In another words when I first start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air are listening it to this year. 73's Gary N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA Gary.Rawson@mindless.org ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N) --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 ----------------------------------------------------------------- The MindLess One's BBS (304) 723-2133 Weirton, WV RIME #5266, FIDO 1:129/161, USENET mindless.org ----------------------------------------------------------------- From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:01 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!news.delphi.com!usenet From: Talon Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: Sat, 16 DEC 95 20:33:35 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com X-To: GARY RAWSON GARY RAWSON writes: >the more characters I miss. In another words when I first >start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little >more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems >like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody >do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning >the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first Keep At It. I got my No-Code Tech on March 29, 1994. I had put off getting my Ham Ticket for over 20 years, solely because of the Code Requirement. (At the time I thought of it as a *restriction*). After a year of being 'stuck' on 2m, basically due to finances, I decided to at least go after my code. I began my quest in March 95 and would listen to the tapes from 4 or 5 about 90 minutes per day. On 10/19/95 I passed my 5wpm test. I am now studying for the Advanced level, yes, code too :). Although I live in an apartment and am restricted my antenna covenants, this will not dim my quest. My goal is to be an Advanced by the Olympics... July in Atlanta. I do not have an Elmer, either, but, Gary, just stick with it. It will be well worth it. Good luck with the Scouts, too. A great time to plant the interest seed in young minds. Keep In Touch :) 73 de John Sokol KE4KPV From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:02 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: BColenso@aol.COM Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: 17 Dec 95 06:17:39 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 43 Message-ID: <951217011737_92461363@emout05.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu In a message dated 95-12-16 20:48:58 EST, Gary Rawson wrote: >I have a goal of gettin my General before >October 1996. > I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15 >characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go >the more characters I miss. Gary: No one here will (should) not flame you for being a NO CODE TECH. You took the first step, now you are ready for the next There is no single way that is best for everybody. Ask 20 people what worked best for them, and you'll get 20 different answers. When I first came in as a NOVICE, there was no such thing a NO CODE. I took classes from a local HAM CLUB, and bought an ARRL code tape. I studied in small segments, several times a day. 10 mimutes before work, 15 min when I got home, 10 min before dinner, and 15 min before bedtime. EVERYDAY (almost). 3 months later I had my novice ticket. Then I started working on my 13 WPM. Tapes are fine, but they are no replacement for ON THE AIR experience. I would suggest that when you pass your 5 WPM test, you get on the air and have some FUN with CW. Also, the ARRL code practice is pretty good. Slow code covers 5, 7.5 10,13, and 15 WPM, and fast practice covers 10,13,15,20,25, and 30 WPM. Before you go in for your 13 WPM test, you want to be good at 15, and even dabble with 20 WPM. Test day, get a good nights sleep before, get up in plenty of time so you won't be rushed, eat a good breakfast, and RELAX. NO BIG THING! The lower portion of the bands do get a bit crowded, so you may want to get a good narrow CW filter for the IF section of your radio. Feel free to ask any questions here or me directly. Like an old prof. of mine once said, "there's no such thing as a stupid question". Good Luck, Bob KD8WU From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:03 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech2!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!pineapp From: pineapp@netcom.com (Daniel Curry) Subject: Re: Mob.ant (screw driver) Message-ID: Organization: Netcom-Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <30CD5F05.19F9@qnet.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:32:05 GMT Lines: 24 Sender: pineapp@netcom10.netcom.com Will (kn6dv@qnet.com) wrote: : Hello, I am looking for info on the *screw driver*type mobile antenna. : Is it a kit or are there any plans or?? : Any info is welcome. : 73 de Will, KN6DV Send a SASE to Don Johnson W6AAQ 26659 Capay Street Box 595 Esparto, Ca. 95627-0595 Or Order His book '40+5 HF years mobiling' via World Radio Magazine Sacramento , Ca. Cost is about 14.00 Dollars. I do not have Worldradio Magazine full address. If you pick one up and look towards the back. You will see Don's book. -- .----------------------------------------------+--------------------------. | INTERNET: pineapp@netcom.com (DC436) | Daniel Curry | | AMPRNET : dan@wb6stw.ampr.org [44.4.20.144] | WB6STW | | AX.25 : wb6stw@n0ary.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM | DoD # 1450 | '----------------------------------------------+--------------------------' From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:04 1995 Path: news.epix.net!peach.epix.net!will From: will@epix.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mob.ant (screw driver) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:03:54 -0500 Organization: epix.net Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <30CD5F05.19F9@qnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: peach.epix.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Daniel Curry wrote: > Or Order His book '40+5 HF years mobiling' > via World Radio Magazine > Sacramento , Ca. > > Cost is about 14.00 Dollars. > I do not have Worldradio Magazine full address. If you pick one > up and look towards the back. You will see Don's book. WORLDRADIO BOOKS is PO Box 189490, Sacremento CA 95818 will@epix.net - KD3XR - W F Sill, Tunkhannock, PA From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.structured.net!news.ism.net!optim.ism.net!chad From: Chad Payne Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:11:18 -0700 Organization: Internet Services Montana, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <4a7j00$nt1@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: optim.ism.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: chad@optim.ism.net In-Reply-To: <4a7j00$nt1@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25026 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17746 > I just saw some antennas at Radio Shack that look just like cell phone > antennas (coupled through the glass). That looks perfect if the > quality is reasonable. They are specifically listed as CB antennas. > Does anyone know how well these work? Would performance be close to > the whip, somewhere in between, or about the same as the flexible one? > Any comments would be appreciated here or via e-mail. These cell phone look alike antennas work but not very well. You probably wouldn't see much difference between them and your rubber duckie antenna. Your best bet is to stick with the mag mount and take it on and off when ever you go in the garrage. That is what I have to do. Chad From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!not-for-mail From: willmore@MCS.COM (David Willmore) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Need help with spacing of J-pole match Date: 15 Dec 1995 19:38:03 -0600 Organization: MCSNet Services Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4at7tr$38r@Venus.mcs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.mcs.com Summary: How far apart should the 1/2" pipe be? Keywords: J-pole matching I'm building (should say that I have built most of) a J-pole antenna for 2m. I've got the 3/4-l and the 1/4-l sections soldered and ready, but I couldn't decide how long the joining piece should be. I know that it forms a transmission line between the lower 1/4-l piece of the 3/4-l section and that the spacing would be dependant on the pipe diameter. I guess that tuning the feed position can tune out that parameter, but is that correct? Am I making sense? Should I just cut an inch or two piece and just tune for the lowest SWR when I'm done? Cheers, David From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:07 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!idir.net!idts1lw19.idir.net!user From: medcalf@idir.net (gloria medcalf) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.swap Subject: New Ham Web Site with Information Content Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:19:58 -0600 Organization: Internet Direct Communications - Lawrence, Ks - (913) 841-2220 Lines: 19 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: idts1lw19.idir.net Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17706 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13130 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22573 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12143 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95599 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32189 rec.radio.amateur.space:5950 A new ham radio related web site is on-line. It contains Articles and Radio-TNC Wiring Diagrams. URL: http://www.idir.net/~medcalf/ztx/ Current Articles Desense: Some Possible Solutions TOR Modes: Hearing the Difference (includes sound files) Getting Information from a Weathernode I plan to add an article approximately once a month. These articles may be reprinted in amateur radio club newsletters provided that credit is given to the author. 73 gloria ka5ztx medcalf@idir.net From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:08 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!news1.inlink.com!usenet From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: plans for copper tubing jpole Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:19:30 GMT Organization: Inlink Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4apiq2$gmi@news1.inlink.com> References: <4aiu3c$hdv@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip13.inlink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 ricklutz@aol.com (RICK LUTZ) wrote: >I am trying to locate the plans for a copper tubing (about 1/2 or 3/4 in) >jpole. a friend wants to build one up and i am concerned about velocity >factors and spacing and would like a proven plan. thanks >73--KD4SEV Hi Rick The plans for my copper cactus antenna and other information on J-Poles can be obtained from my web page http://www.inlink.com/~raiar Gary KG0ZP From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:09 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sparky.midwest.net!usenet From: gayle@ldd.net (Gayle Albert) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Quad Antenna Design Software? Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 05:34:57 GMT Organization: Midwest Internet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4avfkb$hmo@sparky.midwest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial4-20.midwest.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Hello, Folks: Does anyone know of any easy to use software that does design, evaluation, and optimization for quad antennas? What I am looking for is something like Yagi Max only for quads. I have tried several of the NEC programs (PD/Shareware) but they are harder to use than just doing the calculations by hand! I would prefer PD/Shareware programs (for PCs) but would also like comments on commercial software. Thanks! Marty Albert -- KC6UFM Marty Albert -- KC6UFM From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: marktaint@aol.com (MARKTAINT) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Question about Sommer vertical antenna Date: 15 Dec 1995 21:33:33 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 10 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4atb5t$5em@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: marktaint@aol.com (MARKTAINT) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I'm interested in comments that anyone has regarding the Sommer HF Skydisk. It looks interesting and the price is comparable to other vert. antennas. Please e-mail or post responses about this antenna. Thanks very much. Mark Taintor N0YRW MARKTAINT@aol.com From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.aero.org!news2.aero.org!news2 From: clark.w.hanley@aero.org (Clark W. Hanley) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Rec Info on Bi-Conical antenna's Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:20:07 GMT Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4asvr8$4v8@news2.aero.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: co328.aero.org X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Hi All Can anyone give me a pointer to design equations and theory for Bi-Conical antennas? I know thay are vary broud band and are simaler to disk cone antennas but have a second cone in place of the disk. I am looking for an antenna that will cover 30 to 80 MHz without operator tunning, is omni directional and portable (set up at a fixed location). I have seen skeletonized antennas of this type in use but am interested in more detail than can be had from visual observation. If anyone has suggestions for a mobil design and/or portable (HT) design to cover the same frequency range I would also be interested. Thanks for your time and help. Clark KA2NWL clark.w.hanley@aero.org From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.interport.net!usenet From: Michael Neidich Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Rec Info on Bi-Conical antenna's Date: 17 Dec 1995 11:56:21 GMT Organization: Interport Communications Corp. Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4b10h5$2a1@park.interport.net> References: <4asvr8$4v8@news2.aero.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: neidich.port.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Hi, Biconicals are not real practical for that band. The distance from the ground plane disk to the cone or elements should be roughly 1/4 wave. Dimensions for making your own are in all the antenna design handbooks. For VHF/UHF and above they are practical, but the commercial ones are so inexpensive it doesn't pay to make your own. 73 from K2ENN From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: L. Figueroa <70662.1250@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: RF Circuit Designer( E-Mail Corr.) Date: 14 Dec 1995 06:30:56 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4aogb0$lo4$1@mhafc.production.compuserve.com> References: <4ae37o$nt9$1@mhadf.production.compuserve.com> The correct E-Mail is: Figlx900@ccmail.ca.boeing.com -- LF From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!hawk.global.co.za!news From: rfidtec@global.co.za Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: RF/ID newsletter Date: 15 Dec 1995 11:13:24 GMT Organization: rfid technologies Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4arl8k$ke7@hawk.global.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: anx_30.global.co.za X-To: ALL X-Mailer: SlipStream Jet v1.022A (Alpha) X-Registration: GRLXGQQR A new news service on the developments of Radio Frequency Identification systems (RFID) called Transponder News, has been launched at http://www.pix.za/trolley/news.html. It also has a list of patents that are shaping this industry. Cheers Mike --- ţ SPEED 2.00 #1730 ţ ... A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer. >> Slipstream Jet - The QWK solution for Usenets #GRLXGQQR From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!panix!jimbo.dialup.access.net!user From: jimbo@panix.com (James C. Brost) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: RG-58 cripples antenna Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:07:49 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: jimbo.dialup.access.net X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.6b4 In article , charles1@netcom.com (charles copeland) wrote: > I live in a first story apartment and own a TS-820. I use a 64 foot > dipole strung along top of wall. Up to yesterday I did not even have > coax, but just had a banana plug running up to one leg of dipole. > It loaded fine, and was able to achieve 1:1 SWR on 40, 80 meters. > > I tried to pretty it up and added 10' of RG-58 to top of wall and > split out to dipole. When I did this my SWR went to 1:2 on 80 meters > and was not quit as good on 40 meters. I used a T-1000 tuner. > > Why did my SWR drop so badly with such a small peice of RG-58? This is why many still use ladder line. The real issue is not what SWR can tune the radio to, but how much signal is lost in the feed line. The tuner will keep the signal from going back into the transmitter, which IS important, but will not stop the signal from being burned up in the lead-in. Chances are the coax is getting quite warm. Ladder line will operate under higher SWR's without as much loss (an FCC test question). With a perfectly cut antenna, this would make little differnce, but when the dipole is too long (a big improvement) will be seen using ladder line. The banna plug was more like a random wire antenna, where there is no feed line, and the antenna was much longer. -- jimbo@panix.com (Internet) KB2WDI@NY2S.#NLI.NY.USA.NA (AX.25 Packet) kb2wdi@kb2wdi.ampr.org (TCP/IP Packet) From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: RG-58 cripples antenna Date: 15 Dec 1995 16:12:12 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4as6os$kv4@chnews.ch.intel.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com In article , charles copeland wrote: >Why did my SWR drop so badly with such a small peice of RG-58? Transmission lines can have reflections or not. With no reflections, the impedance all along the transmission line is "flat" i.e. constant and equal to the characteristic impedance of the line. Under these circumstances, adding or subtracting lengths of line won't change things by much. However, on a transmission line with reflections, the impedance along the line is not flat. The higher the SWR the greater the swings in impedances. The ten feet of coax is transforming the impedance at one end to a quite different value at the other end because of the high SWR. Without sophisticated test equipment, it is difficult to determine these impedances using coax. That's one reason I like ladder-line. With a voltmeter and a $1 test loop, one can determine everything one needs to know about one's antenna system. 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!inn From: Jim Fellows Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Scanner Antenna? Date: 13 Dec 1995 23:19:43 GMT Organization: is highly overrated, I prefer chaos. Lines: 50 Message-ID: <4ann2f$ab5@murrow.corp.sgi.com> References: <3s1h6k$23me@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <4ailkr$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: zoinks.corp.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) X-URL: news:4ailkr$eu0@dfw.nkn.net Critter@mail.fastlane.net (Chris Dunlap) wrote: >BBCV60C@prodigy.com (Jason Smith) wrote: > >>Could anyone recommend a good scanner costing under 75$'s for a Uniden >>Bearcat BC700A that has 800\900mhz frequencys? > >I find that the discone antenna from Radio Shack works well when you >buy a male to male adapter and affix a 102" steel whip to it. I get >everything! > >Chris D > This brings up an interesting point. The Radio Shack discone antenna has specifications claiming a bandwidth of either 30 or 50 MHz to ~1300 MHz. This is false and misleading as well as impossible from the physics of discone antennas with this size of discone. Also discone physics under perfect ideal conditions only provide a 10:1 MAXf/MINf. What Radio Shack has apparantly done is purchase another manufacturers antenna and relabel it as their own. Common practice, especially for Radio Shack. I beleive the true manuafacturer is Diamond Antenna, which sells a quasi-discone with the same bandwidth claims. What is included with the Diamond version and left out on the Radio Shack version is a base loaded whip. This then combines the discone with what essentially turns out to be a ground plane antenna at frequencies below about 150 MHZ. So adding a whip is exactly what the original design called for for the claimed bandwidth. Two by-the-ways: 1) The Diamond antenna can be purchased for the same or lower price vs. Radio Shack with better performance due to the whip. 2) I have informed Radio Shack Corporate with the error in their claim for the antenna several times over about six years. I have received only one response for several correspondences. This response was merely a form letter thanking me for my interest in Radio Shack equipment. Jim -- "It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear", Norm Peterson. The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!! Green Acres *IS* the place to be! jimf@corp.sgi.com From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!csnews!coopnews.coop.net!news.den.mmc.com!NewsWatcher!user From: thomas.g.booth@den.mmc.com (Booth, Thomas G) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Scanner Antenna? Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: 14 Dec 1995 07:10:39 GMT Organization: A Turbulent One Lines: 18 Distribution: usa Message-ID: References: <3s1h6k$23me@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <4ailkr$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <4ann2f$ab5@murrow.corp.sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 160.205.101.24 In article <4ann2f$ab5@murrow.corp.sgi.com>, Jim Fellows wrote: > (snipped discussion re: Radio Shack's discone antenna & its poor performance below 2m w/o a vertical whip added) > > 2) I have informed Radio Shack Corporate with the error in their claim for > the antenna several times over about six years. I have received only one > response for several correspondences. This response was merely a form letter > thanking me for my interest in Radio Shack equipment. > Jim, maybe next time you ought to send a letter to both Radio Shack and the Federal Trade Commission & see what happens (though I doubt the FTC will act, but you never know...). TGB \\ The opinions expressed herein are my own. // From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:19 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!inn From: Jim Fellows Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Scanner Antenna? Date: 14 Dec 1995 18:11:09 GMT Organization: is highly overrated, I prefer chaos. Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4appbt$ofa@murrow.corp.sgi.com> References: <3s1h6k$23me@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <4ailkr$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <4ann2f$ab5@murrow.corp.sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zoinks.corp.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) X-URL: news:thomas.g.booth-141295000501@160.205.101.24 thomas.g.booth@den.mmc.com (Booth, Thomas G) wrote: >In article <4ann2f$ab5@murrow.corp.sgi.com>, Jim Fellows > wrote: >> >(snipped discussion re: Radio Shack's discone antenna & its poor >performance below 2m w/o a vertical whip added) >> >> 2) I have informed Radio Shack Corporate with the error in their claim for >> the antenna several times over about six years. I have received only one >> response for several correspondences. This response was merely a form letter >> thanking me for my interest in Radio Shack equipment. >> >Jim, maybe next time you ought to send a letter to both Radio Shack and the >Federal Trade Commission & see what happens (though I doubt the FTC will >act, but you never know...). > >TGB > >\\ The opinions expressed herein are my own. // Exactly my thoughts. But I remeber a few years ago a class action lawsuit concerning the price fixing of 15 cent bottles of plastic model paint. The teenage kid became quite wealthy very quickly. =8~} But since I'm philosopically opposed to the litigous nature of the U.S. and I hates them damn sharks I'll probably stay semi-poor. Jim -- "It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear", Norm Peterson. The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!! Green Acres *IS* the place to be! jimf@corp.sgi.com From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: pdema20315@aol.com (PDema20315) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: scanner freq.listings on cd roms Date: 15 Dec 1995 22:01:01 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 2 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4atcpd$613@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: pdema20315@aol.com (PDema20315) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com can anyone supply a source for public agency freqs on cd roms..for new york tri-state area or nationwide From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem Date: 13 Dec 1995 04:59:29 GMT Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4almjh$2a3@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4aja73$f01@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-45.teleport.com X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) ; jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: ; w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: ; . . . ; >Now here's a stupid answer.. ; >Actually, I use zip cord and regular wall plugs for my antennas. That ; >way I don't need a rig, I just plug the antenna directly into the ; >outlet. I'm the guy with all the hum..... zzzzzzzzzzzz ;-) ; ; I load my rig into the phone line. By calling different cities, I ; can resonate the line on different frequencies. The new fiber plants ; are ruining the radiation pattern though. :) Well, I hook my feedline to the sewer, and by . . . never mind. Guess you all knew I do, anyhow. Roy From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:22 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem Date: 14 Dec 1995 17:01:58 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 13 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4aq6sm$m9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4almjh$2a3@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4almjh$2a3@maureen.teleport.com>, w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: >Well, I hook my feedline to the sewer, and by . . . >never mind. Guess you all knew I do, anyhow. > >Roy I thought your signal sounded crappy the other day. But that was quite a pile up on you! (this is getting weird) Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: electrophi@aol.com (Electrophi) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem Date: 15 Dec 1995 14:38:32 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 2 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4asiro$plf@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4almjh$2a3@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader I tune up my wifes stove works pretty good on 20 meters har From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!salt.ncinter.net!iansmith From: dweb@www.ncinter.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:18:41 GMT Organization: North Coast Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4at36t$km@salt.ncinter.net> References: <4aja73$f01@crash.microserve.net> <4almjh$2a3@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin0.ncinter.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) wrote: >; jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: >; w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >; . . . >; >Now here's a stupid answer.. >; >Actually, I use zip cord and regular wall plugs for my antennas. That >; >way I don't need a rig, I just plug the antenna directly into the >; >outlet. I'm the guy with all the hum..... zzzzzzzzzzzz ;-) >; >; I load my rig into the phone line. By calling different cities, I >; can resonate the line on different frequencies. The new fiber plants >; are ruining the radiation pattern though. :) >Well, I hook my feedline to the sewer, and by . . . >never mind. Guess you all knew I do, anyhow. >Roy Test From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: maynards@ix.netcom.com (Sam Maynard ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Suggestions for mobile antenna mounting Date: 14 Dec 1995 18:26:54 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4apq9e$5n7@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-mvo-ca1-15.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 14 10:26:54 AM PST 1995 I just purchased a 95 Ford 150 Econoline Conversion Van. The van has a fiberglass roof. I want to mount a mobile 2m/70cm antenna. Since the roof is fiberglass, mag-mount is out, and I don't want to punch any holes (my wife would kill me, if I did). Although, it has an approximately 1" gutter around the veh. The roof is raised about 1' or so above the gutter. I was woundering if there is low profile (about the size of a Comet B-10) 2m/70cm antenna that has a gutter mount. Or maybe I could make and attach a bracket, with a 3/4" hole, to the gutter and use an NMO mount type antenna. Also, with a low profile antenna mounted to the gutter, and with the roof being about 12"-15" above the gutter, would there be any RF reflections off the fiberglass roof? Does anyone have any other suggestion or ideas? Any comments would be appreciated. 73, Sam - KD6PHZ From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!salt.ncinter.net!iansmith From: test Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: test Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:20:47 GMT Organization: North Coast Internet Lines: 2 Message-ID: <4at3ar$km@salt.ncinter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin0.ncinter.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:26 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!oleane!pressimage!usenet From: Philippe CUVINOT Newsgroups: soc.culture.venezuela,soc.culture.uruguay,soc.culture.spain,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.mexican.american,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.ecuador,soc.culture.cuba,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.argentina,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Un francés está buscando contacto Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:01:41 -0800 Organization: Pressimage, France Lines: 7 Message-ID: <30D28AF5.6972@planete.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ncy1-15.planete.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2a (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net soc.culture.venezuela:43371 soc.culture.uruguay:4675 soc.culture.spain:83561 soc.culture.peru:10990 soc.culture.mexican.american:7892 soc.culture.latin-america:39821 soc.culture.ecuador:4261 soc.culture.cuba:31716 soc.culture.colombia:12492 soc.culture.chile:32334 soc.culture.bolivia:10715 soc.culture.argentina:28715 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32204 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95639 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12163 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22612 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13142 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17729 Hola, Soy francés y estoy buscando a amigos para conversar acerca de temas latino americanos. Me interesa muchísimo la cultura precolombina y estoy realizando una página a propósito de las grandes civilizaciones. Escribanme para darme ideas interesantes. Gracias. Hasta pronto, Philippe. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:27 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.structured.net!news.ism.net!optim.ism.net!chad From: Chad Payne Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: un-guyed masts Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:55:12 -0700 Organization: Internet Services Montana, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <4a72qd$h05@news1.inlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: optim.ism.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: chad@optim.ism.net In-Reply-To: <4a72qd$h05@news1.inlink.com> > We took the guys off the pole during a tree removal from my yard and > they were never replaced. Even in the high winds that come through it > has stood solid. > > The mast is mounted on a 1/2 inch horseshoe pole driven into the > ground and attatched at the eave of the house with pipe-strap. No > other support or guys. You must not get very high winds in your area. Just last week we had consistant gusts up to 77mph here. It bent my 2" thick 10' steel mast right in half. Chad in Missoula, MT Big Sky and Wind country From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:28 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jgardner From: jgardner@netcom.com (Jerry Gardner) Subject: Re: un-guyed masts Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <4a72qd$h05@news1.inlink.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:39:17 GMT Lines: 25 Sender: jgardner@netcom11.netcom.com Chad Payne (chad@split.com) wrote: : > We took the guys off the pole during a tree removal from my yard and : > they were never replaced. Even in the high winds that come through it : > has stood solid. : > : > The mast is mounted on a 1/2 inch horseshoe pole driven into the : > ground and attatched at the eave of the house with pipe-strap. No : > other support or guys. : You must not get very high winds in your area. Just last week we had : consistant gusts up to 77mph here. It bent my 2" thick 10' steel mast : right in half. We had winds to 134mph here a few nights ago. You would have had to search the neighborhood to find the remains of your unguyed pole... -- Jerry Gardner | Maintainer of the Large Format Digest jgardner@netcom.com | Send subscription requests to jgardner@netcom.com From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:29 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!van-bc!fonorola!news.magi.com!newsadm From: David Hamilton Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Ant. on Ford Explorer? Date: 17 Dec 1995 12:11:35 GMT Organization: BDX Bush Dog Exploration Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4b11dn$rou@news.magi.com> References: <4aaccl$a2c@Twain.MO.NET> <4ahuga$pia@feenix.metronet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: magi02p08.magi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) kqualls@metronet.com (Kelly Qualls) wrote: >kberry@mo.net (Keith O. Berry) wrote: > >>I would like to here from anyone who has mounted a VHF/UHF antenna on their >>Ford Explorer. I have a '96 witha moonroof and park in a garage, so the >>antenna drags going in and out. With the exception of mounting on the fender >>in front of the driver, where else has anyone mounted one?? > There's an interesting article in Dec QST about mounting HF antennas on the trailer hitch. Not too practical for VHF, but at least you wouldn't have to get out of the truck every time you go into a garage. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!news.net99.net!news.corpcomm.net!news.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: dsetser@aol.com (DSetser) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Ant. on Ford Explorer? Date: 17 Dec 1995 11:17:10 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 9 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b1fq6$elq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4aaccl$a2c@Twain.MO.NET> Reply-To: dsetser@aol.com (DSetser) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I mounted a Larsen KG2-70PL glass-mount dual-band antenna on one of the rear side windows of my '93 Explorer, and it works reasonably well. I did some research, including calling Ford's glass manufacturer, to make sure that there were no metal elements in the window tint which would screw up the antenna. Email me at dsetser@aol.com if you have any questions. Dave Setser From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.interport.net!usenet From: Michael Neidich Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Wanted: Zenith TransOceanic R7000-1 Date: 17 Dec 1995 11:58:23 GMT Organization: Interport Communications Corp. Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4b10kv$2a1@park.interport.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: neidich.port.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) I need 12 band R7000-1 Taiwan made. Pls describe condition, especially if BFO zero beat can be achieved due to some mechanical problems in the fine tuning. 73 from K2ENN From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!ra.cgd.ucar.edu!tomas From: tomas@ra.cgd.ucar.edu (Bob Tomas) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: what to expect with increase in # of radials Date: 14 Dec 1995 20:38:36 GMT Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO Lines: 46 Message-ID: <4aq20c$hu5@ncar.ucar.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.cgd.ucar.edu I have a butternut vertical in my back yard---its mounted on the ground. My primary interest is in working DX. I currently have 18 radials: 8 at 8 feet 10 at 25 feet 2 at 34 feet The antenna is about 26 feet tall. I bought 500 feet of wire and am planning to install more radials beginning this weekend. I have a few questions and am would appreciate feedback based upon experience, data, hear-say, and even wild speculation. The latter includes numerical modeling results (grin). 1) I have read in several books that there is not much to be gained by using radials much longer than the element length (26 feet). Is this true? 2) If 1 is true, it looks like I am going to add 20 new 25 foot radials. Assuming that I live in an area with average ground resistance, any guesses on what sort of differences this will make? My best guess is that improvement will be observed for two reasons: a) On the low bands, particularly 80m---where the antenna is quite short, ground losses will decrease and efficiency will increase. b) On all bands, the improved ground will act to decrease the angle of radiation. 3) Maybe the answer is obvious but I will ask it anyway: will receive performance change in ways that mirror transmit performance (i.e., increased efficiency and lower radiation angles). 4) Finally, some of the radials will terminate very near corrugated steel window wells that are buried about 4 feet in the ground. Is there anything to be gained (or lost) by attaching the end of the radial to these large pieces of grounded metal? If it matters, the base of the antenna is connected to an 8 foot copper clad ground rod very near its base. Thanks and Happy Holidays, bob n7nd From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:33 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!library.erc.clarkson.edu!multiverse!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news.rcinet.com!sally.dma.org!millersg From: millersg@dma.org (Steve Miller) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials Date: 15 Dec 1995 03:11:52 GMT Organization: Dayton Microcomputer Association; Dayton, Ohio, USA Lines: 60 Message-ID: <4aqp1o$8hc@sally.dma.org> References: <4aq20c$hu5@ncar.ucar.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dmapub.dma.org In article <4aq20c$hu5@ncar.ucar.edu>, Bob Tomas wrote: >I have a butternut vertical in my back yard---its mounted on the ground. >My primary interest is in working DX. >1) I have read in several books that there is not much to be gained by >using radials much longer than the element length (26 feet). Is this >true? From an efficiency standpoint, this is mostly true. Efficiency will continue to increase with longer radials but you won't gain more than a few tenths of a dB. >2) If 1 is true, it looks like I am going to add 20 new 25 foot radials. >Assuming that I live in an area with average ground resistance, any >guesses on what sort of differences this will make? That's hard to speculate. You can determine the improvement in efficiency by comparing SWR before and after adding the additional radials. This change will be most apparent on 80m. There, radiation resistance is its lowest and the equivalent loss resistance (due to ground losses) has a greater impact on the input impedance than the other bands which have a higher radiation resistance. On my last contest DXpedition to J6, I calculated about a 2.5 dB improvement in efficiency based on VSWR readings with just a few radials (~8) and later after laying all 40+ radials. We used a 44 foot top loaded vertical. However, the ground conductivity is not too good there so radials are more important. >My best guess is that improvement will be observed for two reasons: > a) On the low bands, particularly 80m---where the antenna is > quite short, ground losses will decrease and efficiency > will increase. Yes. > b) On all bands, the improved ground will act to decrease the > angle of radiation. No, not to any significant degree - you need several VERY long radials to improve the gain at low elevation angles. >3) Maybe the answer is obvious but I will ask it anyway: will receive >performance change in ways that mirror transmit performance (i.e., >increased efficiency and lower radiation angles). Yes, if the receiver input impedance is not drastically different. >4) Finally, some of the radials will terminate very near corrugated steel >window wells that are buried about 4 feet in the ground. Is there anything >to be gained (or lost) by attaching the end of the radial to these large >pieces of grounded metal? If it matters, the base of the antenna is connected >to an 8 foot copper clad ground rod very near its base. You will have a more extensive radial system and thus be more efficient. Note that joining dissimilar metals may cause corrosion. -- Steve Miller millersg@dmapub.dma.org WD8IXE - Ridin' the aethereal waves From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:35 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials Date: 15 Dec 1995 08:36:53 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 25 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4artll$ipm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4aqp1o$8hc@sally.dma.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Steve, From measurements here last fall on 80 meters with 1/4 wl radials over soil estimated at 4mS/M by dipole impedance measurements at low height. I measured the following... >Field strength measurements follow. Four different basic radial systems were tested, >4, 8,16, and 60 wires. The highest reading came from 60 surface radials, so all other >systems are dB down from that system, or percent of the 60 radial surface system. > >8 foot high counterpoise system. 4 wires 37 percent -4.3 dB 20.1 mV, 8 wires 58 >percent -2.38 dB 25 mV, 16 wires 86 percent -.63 dB 28.7 mV , 60 wires 96 percent >-.18 dB 32.5 mV >ground surface mounted radials >4 wires 28 percent -5.5 dB 17.5 mV, 8 wires 53 percent -2.73 dB 24 mV, 16 >wires 74 percent -1.3 dB 28.4 mV, 60 wires reference 100 percent 0 dB 33 mV. > You see this information indicates around 2.7 dB loss when 8 radials were compared to 60 radials. Pretty close to your estimate!!! 73 Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!news.tek.com!netman.ens.tek.com!not-for-mail From: terrybu@netman.ens.tek.com (Terry Burge) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials Date: 15 Dec 1995 12:28:57 -0800 Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA Lines: 90 Message-ID: <4aslq9$qg5@netman.ens.tek.com> References: <4aq20c$hu5@ncar.ucar.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com In article <4aq20c$hu5@ncar.ucar.edu> tomas@ra.cgd.ucar.edu (Bob Tomas) writes: >I have a butternut vertical in my back yard---its mounted on the ground. >My primary interest is in working DX. > >I currently have 18 radials: > >1) I have read in several books that there is not much to be gained by >using radials much longer than the element length (26 feet). Is this >true? I would definately say the length of the antenna does not change the fact that radials should be 1/4 wavelength or multiples of that. On the ground this is not as important as in an above ground 'ground plane' installation. Basically, you should cut the radials for the bottom of each band you are working. Example, about 16.71 feet for 14 Mhz (234/f), 33.43 for 7 Mhz, etc. There have also been studies done that suggested twice as many 1/8 wavelength radials are as good or maybe better than half as many 1/4 wavelength radials. What the books are referring to I believe is where the close in reflection of the wave is occurring and 'hopefully' combining that with the direct wave taking off from the antenna at a given angel of radiation. Generally speaking I doubt you have much control over this. Unless you live by the ocean or can lay radials out to many wavelengths or have optimum soil conditions what control do you have over how this wave reflects and adds to or subtracts from the direct wave? > Put down 8 or 16 radials for each band as evenly spaced as possible, the more the better. But try and get them evenly spaced in a 360 degree circle. That way your pattern should be as clean as possible. > >My best guess is that improvement will be observed for two reasons: > > a) On the low bands, particularly 80m---where the antenna is > quite short, ground losses will decrease and efficiency Maybe. Another thing you might try is a capacitance hat to broaden your bandwidth on 80. This WILL definately effect the other band's adjustments so expect to do quite a bit of retuning. Got this idea from a fellow who did it on an HF-2V 160/80/40 vertical. Gave him alot more bandwidth on 80 meters (as opposed to the 25Khz or so you normally get with a Butternut). > will increase. > b) On all bands, the improved ground will act to decrease the > angle of radiation. No way. It will increase efficiency of the ground system. This has nothing to do will lowering the angel of radiation. It just helps optimize what the antenna is capable of. To effect your angel of radiation you have to change the length of the radiator and the most optimum length is 5/8 wave- length. Other than that, you can stack verticals like they do on 2 meters and higher but on HF this gets pretty BIG depending on the band. And they have to be phased properly. (see the Vertical Antenna Handbook put on by CQ publishing. I forget the authors name but he is a retired Naval man and did work in this area) > >3) Maybe the answer is obvious but I will ask it anyway: will receive >performance change in ways that mirror transmit performance (i.e., >increased efficiency and lower radiation angles). IF you improve the ground system chances are the vertical will improve for DX (low angel) contacts. It may even degrade the performance on local (high angel) contacts. This is all dependant on the actual length of the vertical radiator in relationship to it's wavelength. A Butternut HF6V(X) on 20 meters is approximately 3/8 wavelength long. Look in one of the antenna handbooks or the Vertical Antenna Handbook to see what angel of radiation this gives. I don't recall right off the top of my head. On the other bands it is different of course. The point is you are optimizing your system for what it is capable of doing. Both receive and transmit! > >4) Finally, some of the radials will terminate very near corrugated steel >window wells that are buried about 4 feet in the ground. Is there anything >to be gained (or lost) by attaching the end of the radial to these large >pieces of grounded metal? If it matters, the base of the antenna is connected >to an 8 foot copper clad ground rod very near its base. > Probably wouldn't hurt. Realize if lightning strikes that is going to catch some of the charge.(will anyway I suppose) >Thanks and Happy Holidays, >bob >n7nd Good luck. Now, how do I get my quad back up in the air after that wind storm? Didn't have this problem with the HF6V! Terry KI7M From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:38 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials Date: 16 Dec 1995 12:56:49 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 57 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4av191$krg@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4aslq9$qg5@netman.ens.tek.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4aslq9$qg5@netman.ens.tek.com>, terrybu@netman.ens.tek.com (Terry Burge) writes: > >I would definately say the length of the antenna does not change the fact >that radials should be 1/4 wavelength or multiples of that. >No way. It will increase efficiency of the ground system. This has nothing >to do will lowering the angel of radiation. It just helps optimize what >the antenna is capable of. >>3) Maybe the answer is obvious but I will ask it anyway: will receive >>performance change in ways that mirror transmit performance (i.e., >>increased efficiency and lower radiation angles). > >IF you improve the ground system chances are the vertical will improve >for DX (low angel) contacts. It may even degrade the performance on local >(high angel) contacts. Only if the radials were radiating. Your earlier statement was exactly correct. NO WAY does adding rdials change the wave angle unless the radials are VERY long. Several wavelengths! 'snip >it is different of course. The point is you are optimizing your system for >what it is capable of doing. Both receive and transmit! Right on. I'd like to add, another important point. Improving the ground reduces noise conducted down the feedline to the antenna terminals. Conducted noise can pump the radial connection up and down with unwanted noise signal and apply noise to the receive system. The thread on the Doty article illustrates how the feedline becomes part of the current carrying system. It also holds true on receive! If the feedline is part of the radiating system (from a poor ground or lack of a feedline choke balun), noise from the shack and transmitter will get in the system. That's because a poorly grounded antenna *depends* on the feedline and station (and eventually power lines) as part of the ground system! That happens here on my receiving antennas, so I use chokes on the leads and good grounds at the antennas. As a matter of fact, I use choke baluns on all my antennas, even verticals. It not only stops RF trouble, it retards lightning damage! >Terry >KI7M Great answers Terry, and all *VERY* true. Where did you learn that info? Most amateur books misconstrue that stuff. You either must have a lot of practical experience or gotten some good material. 73 Tom From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.akorn.net!not-for-mail From: km3t@akorn.net (Dave Pascoe KM3T) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Wrist rocket Date: 17 Dec 1995 00:55:58 GMT Organization: Akorn Access, Inc. Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4avpqv$h9l@news.akorn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: paris.akorn.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot which is useful for launching wires up over trees. Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net. 73 Dave KM3T From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:40 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!iglou!iglou2!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou2.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: Wrist rocket X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2.iglou.com Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <4avpqv$h9l@news.akorn.net> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 03:41:36 GMT Lines: 14 Look at any large sporting goods store. I got mine at Allied. Dave Pascoe KM3T (km3t@akorn.net) wrote: : I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot : which is useful for launching wires up over trees. : Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net. : 73 : Dave : KM3T -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news From: Dave Hockaday Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Wrist rocket Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:58:24 GMT Organization: News & Observer Public Access Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4b1lo0$cag@castle.nando.net> References: <4avpqv$h9l@news.akorn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: grail505.nando.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) n4lq@iglou2.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) wrote: >Look at any large sporting goods store. I got mine at Allied. > > >Dave Pascoe KM3T (km3t@akorn.net) wrote: >: I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot >: which is useful for launching wires up over trees. >: Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net. >: 73 >: Dave >: KM3T I bought mine at Wallmart...great tool for installing wire antennas. I use monofilament line (about 30 lb test) tied to an egg shaped 1 oz. lead fishing weight. I've found this to be the best combonation for accuracy for me. Once the monofilimant is shot over the tree and in the correct location, I remove the weight from the far end and pull the rope/cord back through the tree. The monofilament "flys" a lot better than masonry cord or wire. 73 de WB4IUY From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!sgigate.sgi.com!news1.best.com!pravda.aa.msen.com!news From: jm@drsmesh.com (AA8NF - Joe) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Wrist rocket Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:06:19 GMT Organization: DRs Mesh, P.C. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <4b1imb$eqd@pravda.aa.msen.com> References: <4avpqv$h9l@news.akorn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmesh.pnet.msen.com Try a Meir's 24 hour store near you! I got mine there... -- Thanks....AA8NF - Joe from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA 12/17/95 12:04 _______________________________________ Always available at: jm@drsmesh.com -or- AA8NF@drsmesh.com Please visit our Web Page at: http://www.drsmesh.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.1 mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/ PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4 vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg== =+hd/ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!news.qnet.com!usenet From: Will Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: WTB:Cuscraft D3W Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:38:37 -0800 Organization: Quantum Networking Solutions; Virginia, USA; info@qnet.com Lines: 2 Message-ID: <30D1502D.7379@qnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup59.palm.ca.qnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) CC: rec.radio.swap I am looking for a D3W Cushcraft WARC dipole. Thanks 73 de Will. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:43 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!icon!greg From: greg@core.rose.hp.com (Greg Dolkas) Subject: Yagi antenna on 3rd harmonic? Sender: news@icon.rose.hp.com (News Administrator) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:42:30 GMT Organization: HP - Information Networks Division X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6] Lines: 12 Just curious... What happens when you operate a typical beam antenna (say, 2m) on its 3rd harmonic (70cm)? I expect the pattern will change, but to what? How about the feed point impedance? Gain (or lack thereof)? Several manufacturers have "dual band" beams, but if you look at the pictures it is clear that they really are two independent antennas mounted on the same beam, one "inside" the other. Greg KO6TH From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on freespace path loss" Date: 16 Dec 95 04:52:38 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512160452.UAA17244@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "on" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on freespace path loss" Date: 15 Dec 95 17:03:16 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512151703.JAA00572@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "on" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet From: William Chueh Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: **cheap battary and antenna** Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:01:32 -0800 Organization: Maha C & E Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <30D7363C.4512@kaiwan.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan177.kaiwan.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win95; I) To Every ham: Exciting news, I found one company that carry battary at very low price . Kenwoord, Icom, Yaesu, Motorola. The company is MAHA COMMUNICATION. They are also looking for regional dealer. Contact them at 8183334497 in LA,CA. (They don't like a single quantity order, combine your club order for a special price, *Shipping free for club!). They also got TS (Taiwan Serene) Antenna, and ADI Radio! William Chueh williamc@kaiwan.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!guardian.up.edu!gateway.sequent.com!news.orst.edu!news.PEAK.ORG!engr.orst.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.cc.wwu.edu!netnews1.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!root From: Mike Bunney Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 2 meter antenna Date: 19 Dec 1995 21:24:29 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4b7aid$73t@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sappho1.u.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-User: mbunney X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; AIX 2) X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna I am currently using a Cushcraft ARX 2B vertical connected to my 2-meter mobil e (ICOM 281H). I get a wonderful reception and transmission signal to the west of me but most of my work is to the east. My house is situated directly at th e bottom of a hill which is blocking a lot of signals coming and going to the east. Any suggestions for a good antenna setup to overcome this problem.? I have a 25' height restriction and I only have 50 watts to power any type of a beam antenna. There is a mountain range directly to the west of me that I could bounce a signal off of?? Thank You Mike KC7BNQ From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.u.washington.edu!bank2.u.washington.edu!mbunney From: mbunney@bank2.u.washington.edu (Mike Bunney) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 2 meter antenna problems Date: 20 Dec 1995 15:14:49 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4b9999$8af@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bank2.u.washington.edu Summary: 2 meter vertical antenna is not doing the job. X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] I am currently using a Cushcraft ARX 2B vertical connected to my 2-meter mobile (ICOM 281H). I get a great reception and transmission signal to the west of me but most of my work is to the east. My house is situated directly at the bottom of a hill which is blocking a lot of signals coming and going to/from the east. Any suggestions for a good antenna setup to overcome this problem.? I have a 25' height restriction and I only have 50 watts to power any type of a beam antenna. There is a mountain range 30 miles directly to the west of me that I could bounce a signal off of?? Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank You Mike KC7BNQ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Bunney Mail Stop: Box 354844 FMS Manager Phone: 685-1508 Physical Plant Dept. Fax: 685-4053 University of Washington E-Mail: mbunney@u.washington.edu From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!rkarlqu From: rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: [Q] Homebrew Hardline? Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:37:33 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4bc60t$rgi@hpscit.sc.hp.com> References: <4asvei$4fk@news1.inlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com In article <4asvei$4fk@news1.inlink.com>, Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr. wrote: >More years ago than I care to remember! When we installed a new >tower, we would make our own hardline using 12 guage copper wire onto >which were slipped plastic pop-bead spacers, this was placed inside of Where do you get "plastic pop-bead spacers", whatever those are? >either a copper or aluminum tube the height of the tower. A connector >was soldered to the top of the tube, a vacuum drawn on the tube >through a little pigtail clamped and soldered. How do you make the connector hermetic? > >My question is, does anyone remember the tube diameter used to do >this, to achieve approx. 50 ohm impedance????? Without the beads, the O.D. is 2.3 times the I.D., of course. For 12 gauge wire (.08 inch), that comes out to .184 O.D. I don't know what kind of tubing would have that inner diameter, maybe 1/8 inch iron pipe size hard copper plumbing tubing? Maybe 1/4 O.D. soft copper tubing (would have to be .033 wall)? > >Gary >KG0ZP Rick N6RK From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:19:40 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4b38ks$8ad@crash.microserve.net> References: <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com> <4aheeb$p7p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >We all have found that the ground system is very important. How the >ground is done, elevated or buried, seems to make little or no >difference. But the amount of wire you can put in for a ground is >very important, plus keeping the antenna in the clear if you can. If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected together, how important is it that they actually be grounded? I can't imagine one or two ground rods doing much good. Is it the electrical mass that provides the improvement, or its potential with respect to ground (or both)? 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:46 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 18 Dec 1995 11:57:42 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 39 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b46i6$d6c@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4b38ks$8ad@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4b38ks$8ad@crash.microserve.net>, jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: >If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected >together, how important is it that they actually be grounded? I can't >imagine one or two ground rods doing much good. Is it the electrical >mass that provides the improvement, or its potential with respect to >ground (or both)? > >73, >Jack WB3U Hi Jack, When the radials are short it helps! In a large system ground rods probably don't do a thing, but when it's all you can do....do it. The more stuff tied in, the better it has to be. Harold had many radials only ten feet long, he grounded them to a chain link fence and grounded others (and the fence) to rods. It's hard to define how much did what. He just did everything he could. I remember him telling me how he'd sneak out at night and drill and tap the fence posts in his neighbors yard so he could attach radials to them. His back yard was around ten feet deep and perhaps 60 feet long. I know he just had room for an Inverted L. Where the wires came up to the house, he went under the house with wire and out in the front yard. He also tied in all the heating ducts and pipes under the house. I lived about 10 or 15 miles from him, so we were groundwave on 160. I could watch his signal improve each time he added more stuff to the ground. With no ground at all except one driven rod, my signal used to beat his badly. After he finished his small city lot system, it was neck to neck finishes at times. I had a 1/4 tower in the country with 120 radials! He might have gotten a little carried away, but it sure turned out right! 73 Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 18 Dec 1995 22:08:06 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4b4oo6$330k@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com> <4aheeb$p7p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4b38ks$8ad@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de >If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected >together, how important is it that they actually be grounded? I can't >imagine one or two ground rods doing much good. Hi Jack, It depends what you are after. As to performance on the band, the radials are all you want. But, if it comes to lightning protection, and the LF/DC current envolved in an lightning, the groune rod may help. 73, Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!bocanews.bocaraton.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!csnews!boulder!coopnews.coop.net!frii.com!usenet From: "Michael S. Robinson" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:38:32 -0800 Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc. Lines: 6 Message-ID: <30D64FD8.53DA@frii.com> References: <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com> <4aheeb$p7p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4b38ks$8ad@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fc-9.ppp.frii.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2a (Windows; I; 16bit) To: WB3U In fact, the actual earth ground has little to do with it. So just driving ground rods will be of little help except for lightning protection. The wire radials are a counterpoise to the main radiator. Think of the radials as a known reference to push against. 73 Michael AA0UB From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 19 Dec 1995 15:48:17 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 48 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b78eh$in5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <819393923.1617@pinetree.microserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Jack, In article <819393923.1617@pinetree.microserve.com>, jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: >Everyone's reply to my question seemed to boil down to this. Actually, >what I had in mind though was a radial system under a balanced antenna, >like a dipole. Is the radial system effective even when it's not at >the ground potential of the transmitter, and it's not fed directly by >the coax? It absolutely is. A large ground system actually serves two functions. One is to provide the "other terminal" of any end fed antenna, or to terminate an antenna that depends on the ground or a counterpoise to provide a direct connection for current flow. I like to imagine this as somethjing for the antenna to "push against". The other function is to "shield" the lossy ground below the antenna from electromagnetic effects. We all know if an antenna is placed near a lossy media, energy will be coupled into the lossy media. If we improve the conductivity of the lossy media, or shield the lossy media from the influences of the electromagnetic field, losses in the system are reduced. No "return path" or connection to the radiator is necessary to accomplish the second function. That's why I cringe a bit at the use of words like displacement current flowing into the earth and being returned to the antenna. The effects can be the same without a return path to the antenna. A ground system still improves efficiency. If this wasn't true, and a return path was necessary, surroundings saltwater wouldn't improve the performance of a groundplane or dipole! All that's necessary for this effect is for the radiated field of the antenna to impinge on the groundplane. And if this effect didn't exist, our quads and yagis would quit working (and so would allmost every antenna, since the receiving antenna wouldn't work without a return path, hi.) 73 Tom My dipole is about 80' from the rig and I feed it with >balanced line. There's no way I can actually "drive" the radials as >a counterpoise. > >73, >Jack WB3U From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!jaxnet.jaxnet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 05:18:46 GMT Lines: 16 Message-ID: <819393923.1617@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com> <4aheeb$p7p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4b38ks$8ad@crash.microserve.net> <30D64FD8.53DA@frii.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 "Michael S. Robinson" wrote: >The wire radials are a counterpoise to the main radiator. >Think of the radials as a known reference to push against. Everyone's reply to my question seemed to boil down to this. Actually, what I had in mind though was a radial system under a balanced antenna, like a dipole. Is the radial system effective even when it's not at the ground potential of the transmitter, and it's not fed directly by the coax? My dipole is about 80' from the rig and I feed it with balanced line. There's no way I can actually "drive" the radials as a counterpoise. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:51 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials so˙˙˙˙˙ Message-ID: <8B6F32D.02CF0001E3.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 13:33:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: <4ammp8$6vm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 11 WT> I received a similar response, along with a claim that I was the WT> only one who didn't understand the meaning of the article. Doty must have used that as a standard response. He said the same to me and I have heard of another amateur who also got the same treatment. We all were a surprise to him--infidels! Must have been very frustrating after making thousands of measurements and then be told there is a major flaw! ;-) * RM 1.3 02583 * Not all men are fools. Some of them are bachelors... From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!jaxnet.jaxnet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials so˙˙˙˙˙ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 05:26:28 GMT Lines: 23 Message-ID: <819394383.1617@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <4agdf0$t5i@science-network.science.net> <8B6E556.02CF0001D7.uuout@cencore.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) wrote: >(My lot is on a glacial moraine--meaning extremely poor >conductivity and permitivity--my only advantage is this >location is 300 feet above the immediately surrounding area). Hi Forrest, I'm using a 200' dipole on all bands. I haven't had a chance to evaluate it well on the higher bands, but I've used it a lot on 80 and 40 meters. Maybe it's my imagination, but it sure seems as though my signal reports go down when the ground freezes. Is this a known phenomenon or am I just experiencing changes in band conditions? I've never noticed this before, but then, I lived most of my life in Texas. The only thing I had to worry about there was the insulation dripping off the wires in the summer. ;) 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:53 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.orst.edu!engr.orst.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: taeifert@teleport.com (Thomas Alan Eifert) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: AM Improvement? Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 00:15:11 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4b2bt4$9fq@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4ahrub$sa0@decaxp.harvard.edu> <4atjjb$ifu@maureen.teleport.com> Reply-To: taeifert@teleport.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-eug1-02.teleport.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 The C Crane Co. can be reached at (800) 522-8863. -Thomas- From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: taeifert@teleport.com (Thomas Alan Eifert) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: AM Improvement? Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 04:56:03 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4atjjb$ifu@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4ahrub$sa0@decaxp.harvard.edu> Reply-To: taeifert@teleport.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-eug1-23.teleport.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 winnie@w.imap.itd.umich.edu (Shawn M. Winnie) wrote: > I recall seeing a small, relatively cheap mutual inductor coil for improving > AM reception in some specialty catalog. You are probably thinking of the Select-A-Tenna from the Radio C Crane Company. They make a tunable loop that inductively couples to your AM radio. Last time I checked, it was priced at around $50. You caught me at a bad time, since I recently moved and threw a ton of literature away beforehand. I'll see if I can get you the number over the weekend. > May not help, though, I think there's a 1kW station > on 760 kHz on a mountain right between me and the Fisher building. Not necessarily a problem. They may be a daytime only station, or run very low power at night, or they may have a directional array with the main lobe in another direction. You might even be in their skip zone, depending on your distance from their transmitter. Again, I'll try to get the info to you before the weekend is over. 73 and good listening. -Thomas- From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:55 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news From: jsutton@erols.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!? Date: 17 Dec 1995 19:02:08 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4b1pfg$5q5@zippy.cais.net> References: <4aqq4c$mlk@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp41.erols.com X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) > jwprice@unity.ncsu.edu (James Warren Price) writes: > Albert Liao (liao@emedia.net) wrote: > : a lot of people claim they can hear AM transmissions through > : their dental work or bedsrpings. how does this happen? obiviously, > : the metalic structure of the dental work and the springs can act as > : antenna's but what is demodulating the signal from the carrier? > : and what is used to amplify the sound? > > : if you have any ideas, it would be really nice if you emailed it > : to me! > > HOW ABOUT POSTING FOR EVERYONE TO ENJOY? Thanks. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ > Jim Price, ARS N3QYE Don't blame me. > jwprice@unity.ncsu.edu I voted for Emma Goldman. > http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jwprice/.link.html > > >>>>There is reason to believe that metal fillings in teeth will under cetain circumstances act as a detector. The detected signal, now a varying voltage a t audio frequency, is transmitted to nerves in the jaw area and in turn effect the ner ve endings in your internal audio system. Jim Sutton/AC4CZ jsutton@erols.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:56 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.westnet.com!westnet.com!lgreco From: lgreco@westnet.com (Luigi Greco) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!? Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:25:49 GMT Organization: WestNet Internet Services Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4b1nbd$rs0@mycroft.westnet.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: westnet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Albert, My understanding is that the demodulation stems from the fact that the metallic objects, bed-springs, fillings, etc. are not "clean conductors". That is, the surface of the metal has, for the most part, oxides which exhibit semiconducting characteristics. In effect these are crude versions of diodes (like the Galena crystal and cat whisker in the days of crystal radios) which are electrically non-linear in behavior and cause rectification, as well as demodulation of AM carriers. Combine this with any capacitive and acoustical effects within the environment and you got a radio! Luigi, N2CWV From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:57 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <4b2q01$5v@falcon.sat.net> <4b4ec1$fgq@marel.is> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:53:50 GMT Lines: 29 Sender: slwork@netcom3.netcom.com Kristinn Andersen (kiddi@marel.is) wrote: : >As I understand it, The AM signal is de-moduled by a "bad connection" : >in the old type of teeth fillings. a rare happening.... : This is all correct and can be explained by ordinary EE-phenomena. : Now, what beats me is how the rectified audio currents get converted : into sound, i.e., acoustic energy, in someones mouth, bedsprings or : what have you. Any explanations?? There is probably some very unusual multipath condition where the signal level at that particular point is extremely high. Or perhaps there are various metal structures around which just happen to be "directors" which make for a huge signal at the "driven element" where your pickup happens to be. An accidental design of a high gain antenna. If in a bedspring, for example, if you are able to drive enough current, the normal electromagnetic forces will cause the coil to vibrate mechanically. Also, because bedsprings are nonlinear, you don't even need an electrical "diode" to demodulate the signal, the metal spring itself will do it. There just needs to be an unusual conditions of both concentration of signal, and perhaps electrical or mechanical resonance in the spring. As far as tooth fillings, what happens is that some electrical current is induced in the person's head. The parts of the brain which affect hearing, and the auditory nerve, can be stimulated by this current. The same way that when you put your hand in a light socket the pain sensors in your hand get stimulated. There are enough nonlinearities in the "circuit" within the body to demodulate the signal. Or, perhaps, the tooth filling just mechanically vibrates the same way the bedspring does. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!csulb.edu!carlosr From: carlosr@csulb.edu (Carlos Ramirez) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antennas For HF Date: 18 Dec 1995 06:28:30 GMT Organization: Cal State Long Beach Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4b31me$8qd@garuda.csulb.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: grover.cecs.csulb.edu I am limited on roof, space, and money. I have a three elements beam that I would be using for 10 meters. A vertical multiband would be the answer for the other bands. I am thinking on the MHJ-1796. The reason for the choice is because the antenna is going to be 9 feet away from the mast of the directional, that would be about 25 feet above the roof. The antenna is 12 feet long. This antenna covers 40, 20, 15, 10, 6, and 2 meters. I don't know how bad the closseness of the antennas is going to affect their performance. Do you guys have in mind another antenna that would cover more bands like 80, 17, and 12 meters. I know that the gaps are good, but to tall. I might go on two meters, but my main goal is HF. Any comments about the setup of the antenna would be appreciated. Carlos From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:59 1995 From: Ricker_msn@msn.com (Rick Ruhl) Subject: RE: Antennas For HF Date: 20 Dec 95 01:35:59 -0800 References: <4b31me$8qd@garuda.csulb.edu> Message-ID: <00001fea+00001988@msn.com> Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com) Lines: 8 Carlos: If you have room for a 10 meter beam, you have room for a short spaced Yagifor 20. Which is good. As for a vertical, I got the new mfj 1798 10 band verticial and it is wonderful. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Baloon Scanning Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:15:15 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4bb8j3$1ja2@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de >If this _is_ a workable solution to problems in hilly areas, for instance, >is there anything you can do to optimize the antenna for better reception >(like using solid-core wire as opposed to stranded, or using a pair and >putting an 80 ohm resistor between them so you've got an 80-ohm antenna, >or placing a "duck" antenna on the baloon and run the wires off that to >the ground...) Hi Soren, Yes, I always fill a 100 meter length of 1/2" copper tubing with 75 Ohms resistors and suspend it from a baloon. Works great. Alternatively, you should think about the wavelength (frequencies) of the signals you want to receive, and what suitable (broad band) antenna is available. The best way to raise it is driving your car (+ receiver + antenna) on a hill top. Moritz From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:01 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.global1.net!news From: rxbobxr@globalone.net (bob rx) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Butternut Vert question Date: 16 Dec 1995 01:16:33 GMT Organization: Global One, Inc Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4at6lh$25n@news.global1.net> References: <4apmij$m3f@orion.convex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip6.global1.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ In article <4apmij$m3f@orion.convex.com>, jco@convex.com (John C. Oppenheimer) says: > >I have an old Butternut HF 5 V2 of 1979 vintage. It is the old model >with a tuning coil for 80 and 40. The manual directs you to put the >80 and 40 coil clamps on a blue mark. My blue marks gone. Does >anyone have dimensions for the coils? > >Is Butternut still around? I have sent this question to them at their >new address several weeks ago and have yet to receive a response. > >John >KN5L Why not call on the Phone -- ??? its easier and faster From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:02 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.global1.net!news From: rxbobxr@globalone.net (bob rx) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: BUTTERNUT VERTICAL manual wanted... Date: 16 Dec 1995 01:17:53 GMT Organization: Global One, Inc Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4at6o1$25n@news.global1.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip6.global1.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ In article , thooker@psl.nmsu.edu (Tracy Hoo ker) says: >Call the company and get one sent via Post -- its easier --73 >Hi, >I am looking for a manual for a butternut vertical. The one I have has >several large coils at the bottom, and along the vertical aluminum radiator i s >a wire. People familur with the antenna know which one, I am sure. It does >have the additional band kit, I believe for 40m. > >Please let me know if you have a manual, and I will pay for reproduction cost s. > >Thanks, >Tracy >KA5ECS > From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:02 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 03:13:52 GMT Lines: 20 Message-ID: <819472835.6719@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <199512120340.VAA22829@home.tri.net> <4at9s8$iat@gold.niia.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Rick Rikoski wrote: >It is impossible to combine signals from different directions without >using tuned amplifiers. Yes, I found that out the hard way (many hours of work in the attic). I was attempting to passively combine the output from two antennas pointed in different directions (approximately 90 degs. apart). Each was intended to receive one station. The problem was, the output from each one on the desired frequency was satisfactory, but when I combined them, both stations turned to mush. I eventually gave up. In retrospect, I suspect the problem was caused by the undesired signal pickup of each antenna mixing out of phase with the desired signal from the other. Better antennas would probably go a long ways towards solving the problem, but a pair of narrowband tuned amplifiers would undoubtedly be cheaper. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:03 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty and Sevick Date: 17 Dec 1995 22:26:50 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 9 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4b25fa$c08@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Ian G3SEK Says: >I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into >the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some >light? ARRL Antenna Handbook 17th Edition contains a summary of Sevick's results. It also summarizes Doty's results. They are in the same ball-park. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.eznet.net!news.enterprise.net!btnet!demon!peer-news.britain.eu.net!EU.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty and the missing amperes Date: 19 Dec 1995 16:45:10 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 65 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b7bp6$k44@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4b6ljr$20ro@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Moritz, >Yes, I have read it several times, even in engineering books. However, I have >not yet found and information as to *when* the picture of a loss resistance >in series with the feed point resistance is adequate. > >For this reason the ground losses of a end fed half wave are so much >a matter of debate: >Is the *feed point* resistance or the *loop radiation* resistance in series >with the ground loss resistance? any good reference? First of all, I agree with you 100%. If the feedline was not properly decoupled during measurements, the data is corrupted. But if you consider the most likely effect, that the ground systems missing current was returned through another "earth" connection to the transmitter, than the best small system ground was the one with **UNinsulated** wire, since it produced the highest percentage of radiator current of the two equal sized systems. I am positive the closer to 100% return (I hate using that word) through the radials, the lower resistance that path was. But your last question is a good one. It highlights the lack of a correct universal standard for radiation resistance, and demonstrates how that lack confuses amateurs. For example, things keep popping up in amateur handbooks that openly state if the feedpoint impedance is increased radiation resistance also increases. Those articles obviously use the feedpoint radiation resistance, but that is a worthless parameter for determining efficiency unless all the base current flows through the feedpoint connection. The Orr handbook does that with a 160 inverted L. It states efficiency improves from increased radiation resistance when the L is made from twinlead because ground current is reduced, yet that is totally false. The net ground current remains the exactly the same, and so does loss. The loop radiation resistance also remains the same, only the feedpoint terminal impedance is raised. This same error creeps into many other texts. The halfwave vertical has a loop radiation resistance of perhaps 100 ohms. The ground loss resistance can only be determined by the ground loss contribution to the resistance measured at that current loop if that is our refernce point. The ground loss resistance value will appear smaller at the middle of the antenna than it does when measured at the antenna's base, because the ground loss resistance (as our instrument would see it) is modified by the voltage and current change (transformer like action) of the radiator as we move from the base to the middle. Efficiency could also be determined at the base of the antenna, by comparing the ground resistance appearing at that point with the base radiation resistance of the antenna at that point. The resistance of the half-wave may be several hundred ohms at that point, and the ground loss resistance only a few ohms. The important point is the ratio of the resistances will remain the same when measured at either point. That's why we have to be careful not to mix apples with oranges. When we talk about loss resistance in a system with built in transformations of impedance, we have to reference everything to the same measurement location. We can not allow a "current bypass" of the measurement spot to make us think we've changed something when we haven't, and we can't compare current loop radiation resistance to resistance at some other point in the system. 73 Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk From: Ian G3SEK Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article and Ian's response Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 16:17:11 +0000 Organization: IFWtech Lines: 25 Message-ID: <57094253wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> References: <4b1cbm$fkc@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:51:14 GMT] X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:52:08 GMT] Hello Bill - Thank you for your reply. You know, I don't think we can agree on this one, mainly because I really can't respond any further without drawing diagrams and waving my hands :-) We've hit the limitations of this text-only medium. An ideal world would have you, me and Tom all sitting in the same room and using really advanced visual presentation tools like table napkins and beer mats. We'd have the whole thing sorted out in five minutes. Then Cecil could join us to discuss PA efficiency and output impedance. That's a much tricker problem, of course - it might take... oh, all of ten minutes to agree on. Naturally, anyone else wanting to join this seasonal fantasy would be very welcome to pull up a chair! Of course, there's always the radio... -- 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:08 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.supernet.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article once again Message-ID: <8B74579.02CF000286.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 23:21:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: <4avoqq$ivr@gold.niia.net> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 75 SS> I have been sitting here, looking at Doty's article and at two SS> Tables of data that relate antenna current to the radial return SS> current for two cases 1) radials arranged as a counterpoise SS> (insulated from ground) and 2) radials arranged as a ground screen SS> (radials grounded in many places). Here are the results: Case 1 Case 2 nr radials %return nr radials %return 12 66 12 87 20 90 20 90 48 100 48 99 SS> There's something wrong here Tom. With many radials he is getting SS> 100% of return current in the radials. With few radials the thing SS> that I mentioned previously is happening. Return current is SS> bypassing the radials and returning to the xmtr by different paths SS> that bypass the radials. I don't see anything here that tells where SS> the xmtr is located or what the transmission line looks like. SS> My final conclusion is that the author did not account for all the SS> current paths that ultimately lead back to the xmtr. But with 48 SS> radials almost all of it returns through the radials. Somehow the SS> discussion of this subject has gotten out of whack and you may wish SS> to read the entire article. If you like I will Fax a copy to you if SS> you have a Fax. Otherwise snail mail. Send a fone number or an SS> address if you want a copy. Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low number of radials and become equal with a higher number of radials is very simple. Doty's RF generator was not isolated from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his RF generator was located away from the antenna. This lack of isolation created another path through the ground for return current. This path necessarily would be a poor one, but would make its presence visible at a low number of radials. As the radials were increased, the radials began to become the main path for return current and at 48 radials completely overcame the poor ground return current. What it amounts to is paralleling a low resistance path across one of high resistance. When the low resistance path becomes low enough, we won't even notice the high resistance path. Doty's conclusion that equality of current return at 48 radials established equality of a ground system of 120 radials is completely erroneous. In his particular setup it merely was the number of radials necessary to overcome the high resistance of his extraneous ground connection. I'd warrant that had he continued to add radials, the currents, now equal, would have continued to increase. He provided no reading of the self-impedance of the vertical which would have allowed us to evaluate the real contribution of his counterpoise. There have been some attempts at explanation of the unequal currents of a low number of radials as being due to ground loss. Others have mentioned phase differences. Both of these effects were present, but the fact remains that Kirchoff's Law continued to hold. If we had access to an isolated RF generator we would find the currents equal at the two terminals of the generator and that they would necessarily be 180 degrees out of phase. Ground loss has nothing to do with this inequality, present or not; it would only determine the amount of RF generator current, whose outgoing and return currents would always be equal. Kirchoff's Law is not repealed. * RM 1.3 02583 * I liked Occam's razor so much I bought the company. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:09 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sparky.insinc.net!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article once again Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:34:55 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 77 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bbraf$cmq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <8B74579.02CF000286.uuout@cencore.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Forrest, In article <8B74579.02CF000286.uuout@cencore.com>, forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) writes: >Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this >article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low >number of radials and become equal with a higher number of >radials is very simple. Doty's RF generator was not isolated >from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground >or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps >both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his >experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his >RF generator was located away from the antenna. > >This lack of isolation created another path through the ground >for return current. This path necessarily would be a poor >one, but would make its presence visible at a low number of >radials. As the radials were increased, the radials began >to become the main path for return current and at 48 radials >completely overcame the poor ground return current. What it >amounts to is paralleling a low resistance path across one >of high resistance. When the low resistance path becomes >low enough, we won't even notice the high resistance path. > >Doty's conclusion that equality of current return at 48 >radials established equality of a ground system of 120 >radials is completely erroneous. In his particular setup >it merely was the number of radials necessary to overcome the >high resistance of his extraneous ground connection. >I'd warrant that had he continued to add radials, the currents, >now equal, would have continued to increase. > >He provided no reading of the self-impedance of the vertical >which would have allowed us to evaluate the real contribution >of his counterpoise. > >There have been some attempts at explanation of the unequal >currents of a low number of radials as being due to ground >loss. Others have mentioned phase differences. Both of >these effects were present, but the fact remains that >Kirchoff's Law continued to hold. If we had access to an >isolated RF generator we would find the currents equal at >the two terminals of the generator and that they would >necessarily be 180 degrees out of phase. > >Ground loss has nothing to do with this inequality, present >or not; it would only determine the amount of RF generator >current, whose outgoing and return currents would always >be equal. Kirchoff's Law is not repealed. > That is all exactly correct Forrest, and it is the conclusion of many others. As a matter of fact, nearly all the people I have talked to that have a lot of practical antenna experience coupled with educational background agree with you. I received several E-mails from others that share that basic opinion. They also wrote and were ignored. Several of us were told we were the only ones complaining, hi. Your response is the ONLY logical explaination of the current's that were measured. The entire issue is very perplexing to me. The conclusions were so very obviously wrong, and the very valid questions raised by many of us were ignored. Doty may be a "nice guy". But that doesn't make his conclusions correct, no more than if he was not "nice" would make him wrong. I can find no logical technical arguement that supports his conclusions, or any reason to drag personal feelings into a technical debate. The issues are measurements and conclusions, not popularity or trust. On that basis, if it were Mary Tyler Moore, Mr. Rogers, or sweet little Grover from Sesame Street arguing Doty's point .....they would be incorrect. If it were Saddam Hussain, Bill Clinton or Newt Gingich arguing against his point.......they would be correct. Sorry. That's the way it is in technical discussions. 73, Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk From: Ian G3SEK Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 15:56:34 +0000 Organization: IFWtech Lines: 52 Message-ID: <409827966wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> References: <30d3a21d.45967721@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us> <4b1dcb$dq0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:51:08 GMT] X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:52:05 GMT] In article: <4b1dcb$dq0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) writes: : : >....maximum diameter circle is, and putting in whatever number it takes : >to : >achieve the .02wl spacing at the tips would be the "best" you could do? : : I agree if we understand "best" is subject to the trade-off of cost and : return, hi. It is a lot more than a slob would consider perfect, and less : than a fellow who places socks neatly in order in the clothes hamper : would be happy with. ;-) The .02wl spacing only marks the *beginning* of diminishing returns. In other words, that's where the real work starts. I'm just trying to figure out if the spacing has any physical significance. My trouble is, I *hate* laying radials! No matter how carefully I polish my halo and iron my special radial-laying socks before starting, a few hours out there will always turn me into a slob who's ready to quit at the first excuse. Do take a look at Sevick's article: 'Short Ground-Radial Systems for Short Verticals' (QST, April 1978). As well as dealing with short verticals, he also considers resonant quarter-wave verticals, and systematically covers the effects of the following on radiation efficiency: * radial length * number of radials * terminating earth spikes. Unlike so much amateur experimental work, Sevick's measurements are systematic, well explained and all seem to make sense. This really isn't my specialist area, but Sevick's article seems to have answered many of the regular 'newbie' questions about less-than-ideal radial systems on the ground. If you want to be a slob about radials, the article gives numbers from which you can estimate the price you're paying. I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some light on that? -- 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!jayk From: jayk@fc.hp.com (Jay Kesterson K0GU) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Date: 18 Dec 1995 14:55:22 GMT Organization: Morris is a cat, Morse is a code Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4b3vcq$s1c@fcnews.fc.hp.com> References: <30d3a21d.45967721@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us> <4b1dcb$dq0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <409827966wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: jayk@fc.hp.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bigdog.fc.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Ian G3SEK (G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk) wrote: : This really isn't my specialist area, but Sevick's article seems to have : answered many of the regular 'newbie' questions about less-than-ideal : radial systems on the ground. If you want to be a slob about radials, the : article gives numbers from which you can estimate the price you're paying. : I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into : the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some : light on that? : -- : 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' I don't have the latest version of the ARRL Antenna Book but the version before did have this info. There is a section that states most of the data came from Sevick's articles. It has the chart that shows the number of radials for various lengths from .1 to .4 wl. 73, Jay K0GU jayk@fc.hp.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk From: Ian G3SEK Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:03:22 +0000 Organization: IFWtech Lines: 84 Message-ID: <474152917wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> References: <4amuqo$1cna@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <4aplkd$ir0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Sat, 16 Dec 95 0:04:13 GMT] X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Sat, 16 Dec 95 0:06:05 GMT] In article: <4aplkd$ir0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) writes: : I think this was a CQ article, not QST. You're both right - he published it twice. : In article <4amuqo$1cna@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, : sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: : : >I have two questions about the Doty article: : > : >1) Is it really true that the radial return current *must* : > equal the current in the vertical rod? Isn't some of the : > return current diverted from the radials to the earth : > underneath by capacitive coupling, as Doty claims? Isn't : > there a potential difference between radials and the : > earth that would cause displacement currents to flow : > to ground and not through the measuring instrument? : : Yes, the current must be equal. I'm with Tom on this: Kirchhoff's law has to apply at the feedpoint. That means that the *vector* sum of currents at the feedpoint must be zero. But if you measure the scalar currents using a clamp-on meter, in the general case you will *not* find a balance between the currents in the radials and in the vertical. Here's an example of a four-radial "GP" modeled in free space. The vertical vertical and two of the radials ar 0.25wl (which is not quite the resonant length) and the other two radials are 0.125wl and 0.375wl. At the feedpoint the currents are as follows. Mag Phase Vertical 41.5 7.1 R1 20.4 -172.7 R2 1.68 -160.4 R3 20.4 -172.7 R4 1.29 34.3 The vector currents sum accurately to zero - just as they should - but the magnitudes are out by 2.3. OK, that was a contrived example, but it does show that scalar current measurements will generally not balance (unless the phases in the driven element and all the radials are the same). Doty's radial system involved all kinds of different lengths, so it seems to me that his measurements of scalar currents are pretty much impossible to interpret. It's confusing to talk about "displacement current" flowing between the driven element and the radials. There is electromagnetic induction between them, but no flow of current in any meaningful sense: no electrons flow through the volume between the driven element and the radials. You can't expect a mixture of genuine currents (electron flow in/on a conductor) and so-called "displacement currents" to obey Kirchhoff's law. Changing the subject, to the question of "How many radials?", I'd value your comments on a re-working of Sevick's data (QST April 1978) on the efficiency of a resonant quarter-wave vertical as a function of the number and length of radials. He found that the longer the radials are, the more of them you need in order to reach the point of diminishing returns. More specifically, he found (Fig. 7) that for 1/16wl radials there isn't much more to be gained beyond 20 radials; for 1/8wl the efficiency curve starts to level out at about 30 radials, and for 1/4 wl it's leveling out somewhere beyond 60. It works out that in each case the distance between the ends of the radials is about 0.02-0.025wl. This suggests that if the radials wires are any farther apart, the EM field can "leak" between them, and that portion of the return current then has to flow through the lossy earth. That seems to explain why, as the radials get longer, you need more of them in order to maintain the minimum necessary spacing of say 0.02wl. Would this be a useful rule of thumb when designing radial systems, do you think? -- 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Date: 16 Dec 1995 00:45:48 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 68 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4atmec$9rd@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <474152917wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Bill, Here is my explaination of why Doty's strange readings took place. I agree with you, what struck me is the results actually contradict his claims! In article <4as2df$102s@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: >I have been sitting here, looking at Doty's article and at two Tables >of data that relate antenna current to the radial return current for two >cases 1) radials arranged as a counterpoise (insulated from ground) >and 2) radials arranged as a ground screen (radials grounded in many >places). Here are the results: > Case 1 Case 2 > nr radials %return nr radials %return > 12 66 12 87 > 20 90 20 90 > 48 100 48 99 >There's something wrong here Tom. With many radials he is getting >100% of return current in the radials. With few radials the thing >that I mentioned previously is happening. Return current is bypassing >the radials and returning to the xmtr by different paths that >bypass the radials. I don't see anything here that tells where the >xmtr is located or what the transmission line looks like. Agreed. That was my objection in a letter to CQ. The ground connection at the vertical's base has a "path to ground" through the feeder unless a choke balun was in line. The net base feed current at the antenna's ground terminal divides between the two parallel "grounds" (the radial system and the feed cable's unknown ground). As an additional comment: When Chrisman tested an elevated ground system, field strength improved without a choke in the feedline, and decreased when a choke was installed. The choke's only function is to prevent the feeder and transmitter system from being part of the vertcal's ground. The supposition is four elevated radials form an ideal ground, equal to 120 radials. If the supposition is true, why is FS increased over one dB when the choke is removed and earth connections become part of the system? That either indicates efficiency goes over 100% without a choke, or elevated radials are not 100% efficient because the poor ground to the transmitter helps the system!! Common sense tells us if radial effectiveness improves, more current shifts into the radial system and less flows through the feedline ground connection. The more current accounted for in the radials, the better the ground must be! Current shift into the radials can occur only because the parallel resistance of the radials was reduced, while the ground back through the feeder to the exciter remained constant. These tests actually prove radial system resistance **DECREASES** as radials are added, and that additional parallel grounds are *BETTER*, not worse! That makes sense to me, when I want low ground resistance, I parallel as many independent ground connections as I can! What do you do to lower the resistance of a ground? Parallel independent ground connections, or remove them? I would bet the farm you parallel grounds, or try to get as much surface area in the ground connection as possible! If you look again at the VLF antennas you mentioned, you will see that the efficiency of those arrays improves with star type grounding systems that connect directly to the earth. This is a prime example why magazines should allow groups of people from different backgrounds to review any article that claims to advance science. >My final conclusion is that the author did not >account for all the current paths that ultimately lead back to the >xmtr. But with 48 radials almost all of it returns through the >radials. My conclusion also. 73 Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.tek.com!netman.ens.tek.com!not-for-mail From: terrybu@netman.ens.tek.com (Terry Burge) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Date: 20 Dec 1995 13:38:43 -0800 Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA Lines: 38 Message-ID: <4b9vp3$opq@netman.ens.tek.com> References: <30d3a21d.45967721@nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us> <4b1dcb$dq0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <409827966wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com In article <409827966wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk writes : >: > >Do take a look at Sevick's article: 'Short Ground-Radial Systems for Short >Verticals' (QST, April 1978). As well as dealing with short verticals, he >also considers resonant quarter-wave verticals, and systematically covers >the effects of the following on radiation efficiency: > > * radial length > * number of radials > * terminating earth spikes. > Excellent article and should be a must for anyone considering putting up a vertical antenna. This is the article I mentioned in my earlier post concerning 1/8 and 1/4 wavelength radials and their effects. > >I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into >the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some >light on that? > A very good question. I can think of atleast a few articles I would have put in the ARRL Antenna Handbook. And ones I would have left out. Ever try to build a quad for a particular frequency and find all the dementions in the handbook are either too short or too long? Try to find something for 435 Mhz satellite sometime. Even in the Satellite Handbook you will find they just don't give much. Basic practical theory articles are sadly lacking when you need to calculate measurements and/or want to know what effect something(s) will have. Not to mention how something works. Glad G3SEK found that article and mentioned it. Now to see if I still have the magazine. Terry KI7M From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty's article and the displacement current Date: 17 Dec 1995 23:07:47 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4b27s3$c08@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Ian G3SEK says: >Hello Bill - >Thank you for your reply. You know, I don't think we can agree on this one, >mainly because I really can't respond any further without drawing -) We've >hit the limitations of this text-only >medium. The concept of displacement current is a difficult idea to grasp. It has to do with energy transfer through empty space. It relates to the impedance of free space, 377 Ohms. It relates to the the Poynting vector of power flow in free space. Maxwell used the concept to explain electromagnetic waves and the speed of light. It is not a flow of electrons but it does account for the H field in empty space. An ordinary capacitor does not conduct electrons, but it does transmit energy. The displacement current is used to explain this transfer. I think my understanding of these basic principles is quite adequate. My reference material (here in front of me) and my studies over the years are quite sufficient for this task. Let's leave it at that. Also, I do think Doty is getting a bum rap in this discussion that he does not deserve. It is clear to me that none of us has really got a good handle on all of the subtleties involved in this ground plane problem. It is also very clear to me that there is a relationship between the percentage of radial return current, the efficiency and the feedpoint impedance. There have been some personal comments about Doty and I for one could not care less about that. I am only interested in whatever technology may be involved. Leave personalities out of it. I have enjoyed this discussion and I have enjoyed making your acquaintance, Ian G3SEK. I hope we meet again. 73, Bill Sabin W0IYH. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty's article and the displacement current Date: 18 Dec 1995 12:54:25 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 58 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b49sh$ei4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4b40qq$2q86@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4b40qq$2q86@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>, moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () writes: > >Please explain this. The outer of the feed line is connected to the radials, >and if all is set up correctly (chokes) radial return current must be 100% > >How is it possible to measure ground loss directly >and eventually the efficiency? > >73, Moritz That is correct Moritz. That is also my objection. It is impossible to state with certainty how efficiency changes with the type of measurements that were made. For example, assume a second fixed resistance ground system is at work in parallel with the ground system being tested. If the ground system under test is made less effective, more current will shift to the second fixed resistance ground. The percentage of current in the ground system under test will be reduced compared to net radiator base current. Since that is the only explaination for the current at the base not equaling the current at the common point of the radials, I assume that indicates the radial system was poorer as the percentage of current in it decreased. Do you agree with that? If so, insulated radials are poorer than bare radials! And small radial systems are poorer than large systems. Secondly, the issue of displacement current keeps popping up. The current measured in the radials is real current, not displacement current. We have no idea how much of it is conducted current and how much is "displacement current. So what good does measuring current out in the radial do? To know the actual "displacement current" around the antenna, we need to know the electric field level and direction at all points surrounding the antenna. If we were going to go through all that bother, it would make more sense to go out several wavelengths and just measure the field strength. That would give us a direct comparison of efficiency as the ground system was changed. And it's much easier than doing a complicated vector analysis of near field levels and losses in the immediate vicinity of the antenna. The near field analysis would require measurements that are almost impossible to make, and a lot of asumptions of how those fields interact with a lossy media like earth. That's what NEC is for, and even that complicated program has a difficult time with the interaction between fields and real earth. Calling current in the conductors of a radial "displacement current" is confusing the whole issue. Once it's in the conductor (even earth), it's just plain old current. 73 Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty's article and the displacement current Date: 20 Dec 1995 11:54:05 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4b8tgt$2om2@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <4b27s3$c08@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <559634381wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de >Also, Kirchhoff's law does not apply to sheet currents flowing within the >earth itself, because we cannot define finite conductor boundaries or >junction nodes. Hi Ian, I am quite sure, that a little more care is needed here with the wording. Given a countinuous conductive (lossy) medium, Kirchhoff's law simply should be replaced by the continuity equation: div (current density) = d (charge) /d (time) However, I think that Doty's approach is quite useless for another reason: As lont as you add / remove radials in a existing system, the current on the coax shield (that's what he measures after all) may well be an indication of the ground efficiency. If you however managed to change ground conductivity under an antenna with a poor radial system (just dump some salt in your garden at night, no problem ;-), I doubt very much, that there will be a clear relationship between "radial current loss" and antenna efficiency. 73, Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:22 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!multiverse!castle.nando.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty's article and the displacement current Date: 19 Dec 1995 18:27:56 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4b707c$2h2o@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <4b40qq$2q86@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> <4b49sh$ei4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de >For example, assume a second fixed resistance ground system is at work in >parallel with the ground system being tested. If the ground system under >test is made less effective, more current will shift to the second fixed >resistance ground. The percentage of current in the ground system under >test will be reduced compared to net radiator base current. > >Since that is the only explaination for the current at the base not >equaling the current at the common point of the radials, I assume that >indicates the radial system was poorer as the percentage of current in it >decreased. Sure. If there is only the radials connected to the outer of the feed line, the current on the radials + the current on the outer of the feed line must equal the current on the radiating element. So he took the current on the feed line surface as a measure for efficiency? >If so, insulated radials are poorer than bare >radials! But I should guess, only if the capacitance of the insulation is low enough, so that 1/omega x C is significant compared to the ground resistance. >Secondly, the issue of displacement current keeps popping up. The current >measured in the radials is real current, not displacement current. Well, I would prefer to call the interaction of an antenna with its surrounding " radiation" ;-) 73, Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk From: Ian G3SEK Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty's article and the displacement current Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:29:59 +0000 Organization: IFWtech Lines: 46 Message-ID: <754949730wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> References: <4b27s3$c08@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <559634381wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> <4b8tgt$2om2@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> Reply-To: G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk In article: <4b8tgt$2om2@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () writes: : : >Also, Kirchhoff's law does not apply to sheet currents flowing within the : >earth itself, because we cannot define finite conductor boundaries or : >junction nodes. : : Hi Ian, : : I am quite sure, that a little more care is needed here with the wording. : Given a countinuous conductive (lossy) medium, Kirchhoff's law simply : should be replaced by the continuity equation: : : div (current density) = d (charge) /d (time) : Yes, obviously there is a continuity equation since there is no net gain or loss of charge carriers (electrons) in the entire system. : However, I think that Doty's approach is quite useless for another : reason: As long as you add / remove radials in a existing system, the : current on the coax shield (that's what he measures after all) may well : be an indication of the ground efficiency. I am not sure that Doty did measure the current on the coax shield. We have to be very careful not to put words into somebody else's mouth - neither Doty's nor mine :-) In the most open-minded and non-judgemental way possible, I am not sure exactly which currents Doty *did* measure at the feedpoint. Currents on the coax shield are not an indication of the ground inefficiency. By installing a feedline choke you can reduce these currents to any arbitrary level without in any way changing the efficiency of the ground beneath the antenna. -- 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!micro.internexus.net!arther.castle.net!news.netrail.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: stoskopf@tri.NET (Lawrence Stoskopf) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty, antenna currents, a comment Date: 17 Dec 95 17:49:56 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 22 Message-ID: <199512171741.LAA03565@home.tri.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Have been following the Doty thread with interest as was about to put up a similar elevated radial system. The new plan is to use all of the wire I've gathered over the years. Doty made a lot of measurements, but my real hero is as follows: When Sevik started publishing his extension and re-measurement of Brown's data, I spent some lengthy time in the Kansas State University library reading every article in the 1930s era Proc of the IRE on the subject and following up on as many references as the interlibrary loan would get me. Some of the copies are buried in my archives somewhere. My hero is the guy in a picture of an approximately 200 ft WOODEN tower hanging from a bosun's chair on a rope on a pulley from the top, holding a current probe and measuring the distribution of current along the full length of the antenna (powered)! I'll stick to W7EL's program and you guys can verify the data. Lawrence E. Stoskopf N0UU From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:26 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!news.inc.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ios.com!news From: Andrew Dodd Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Dual-band antennas Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:12:21 -0800 Organization: Internet Online Services Lines: 13 Message-ID: <30D61F85.5A18@village.ios.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-26.ts-2.hp.idt.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) Hello, I have the ARRL Antenna book, but it doesn't seem to have any information on multiband verticals like those advertised in many catalogs. (You know, the 2M/70CM dual-banders that don't have a visible trap anywhere) Or the rubber ducks that come with practically every twinband HT sold? How are these designed? Anyone recommend any good books? Also, does anyone know of a good price for an SWR meter that will work on 2M/440? All of the ones I've seen look a little too expensive. Or information on making one? Andrew Dodd N2YPH From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Postmaster@mail.ATt.NET Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Email Nondelivery Notice -- FAILED MESSAGE Date: 19 Dec 95 19:22:01 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 405 Message-ID: <199512201927.LAA14702@UCSD.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Confirming-MTS-Message-ID: Not-Delivered-To: mhs!tva!c5t0c.office/G=gerald/S=nicely/RECIPNUM=1/MTA-BASIC@ attmail.com due to code 06 "Expired Maximum Time"; arrived Tue Dec 19 19:22:01 -0000 1995; Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #h#613 P2-Originator: internet!UCSD.EDU!ham-ant (Ham-Ant Mailing List and Newsgroup) To: Ham-Ant@UCSD.EDU Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Ham-Ant Digest Tue, 19 Dec 95 Volume 95 : Issue 613 Today's Topics: Advice on inverted-L antennas AM Improvement? Doty's article and the displacement current Dual-band antennas Fix your MFJ Mod. 986 Tuner before it breaks LEARNING CW (3 msgs) Question about Sommer vertical antenna Stuff to build YAGI's with. The Best Wire Antenna your LISTSERV request "help greenhorn with mfj+longwire" Send Replies or notes for publication to: Send subscription requests to: Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the Ham-Ant Digest are available (by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-ant". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:19:40 GMT From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Subject: Advice on inverted-L antennas w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >We all have found that the ground system is very important. How the >ground is done, elevated or buried, seems to make little or no >difference. But the amount of wire you can put in for a ground is >very important, plus keeping the antenna in the clear if you can. If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected together, how important is it that they actually be grounded? I can't imagine one or two ground rods doing much good. Is it the electrical mass that provides the improvement, or its potential with respect to ground (or both)? 73, Jack WB3U ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 00:15:11 GMT From: taeifert@teleport.com (Thomas Alan Eifert) Subject: AM Improvement? The C Crane Co. can be reached at (800) 522-8863. -Thomas- ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 1995 12:54:25 -0500 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Subject: Doty's article and the displacement current In article <4b40qq$2q86@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>, moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () writes: > >Please explain this. The outer of the feed line is connected to the radials, >and if all is set up correctly (chokes) radial return current must be 100% > >How is it possible to measure ground loss directly >and eventually the efficiency? > >73, Moritz That is correct Moritz. That is also my objection. It is impossible to state with certainty how efficiency changes with the type of measurements that were made. For example, assume a second fixed resistance ground system is at work in parallel with the ground system being tested. If the ground system under test is made less effective, more current will shift to the second fixed resistance ground. The percentage of current in the ground system under test will be reduced compared to net radiator base current. Since that is the only explaination for the current at the base not equaling the current at the common point of the radials, I assume that indicates the radial system was poorer as the percentage of current in it decreased. Do you agree with that? If so, insulated radials are poorer than bare radials! And small radial systems are poorer than large systems. Secondly, the issue of displacement current keeps popping up. The current measured in the radials is real current, not displacement current. We have no idea how much of it is conducted current and how much is "displacement current. So what good does measuring current out in the radial do? To know the actual "displacement current" around the antenna, we need to know the electric field level and direction at all points surrounding the antenna. If we were going to go through all that bother, it would make more sense to go out several wavelengths and just measure the field strength. That would give us a direct comparison of efficiency as the ground system was changed. And it's much easier than doing a complicated vector analysis of near field levels and losses in the immediate vicinity of the antenna. The near field analysis would require measurements that are almost impossible to make, and a lot of asumptions of how those fields interact with a lossy media like earth. That's what NEC is for, and even that complicated program has a difficult time with the interaction between fields and real earth. Calling current in the conductors of a radial "displacement current" is confusing the whole issue. Once it's in the conductor (even earth), it's just plain old current. 73 Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:12:21 -0800 From: Andrew Dodd Subject: Dual-band antennas Hello, I have the ARRL Antenna book, but it doesn't seem to have any information on multiband verticals like those advertised in many catalogs. (You know, the 2M/70CM dual-banders that don't have a visible trap anywhere) Or the rubber ducks that come with practically every twinband HT sold? How are these designed? Anyone recommend any good books? Also, does anyone know of a good price for an SWR meter that will work on 2M/440? All of the ones I've seen look a little too expensive. Or information on making one? Andrew Dodd N2YPH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:31:34 GMT From: mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (Mike, KN6IS) Subject: Fix your MFJ Mod. 986 Tuner before it breaks In article <30d23620.1509448@news.earthlink.net>, rfreeman@earthlink.net (Richard Freeman) wrote: > To all hams: > > If you have a MFJ tuner Mod. 986, the shaft in the roller inductor > may break at any time. The problem is the hole in the front panel is > slightly higher than it should be so the shaft is bent all the time. > To correct this 4 washers need to be put under the roller inductor to > raise it to match the front panel hole. I drilled holes in four > pennies and used them. They seemed to be just the right size. Doing > this will save you the $55+ fee that MFJ charges for a new roller > inductor when the shaft breaks. > > Yes, MFJ is aware of this design flaw. > > Post any questions. > > Richard, KB6CEA Richard, thanks for the info. I will check mine. -- Mike, KN6IS ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 1995 15:06:09 GMT From: mclendon@ix.netcom.com (Mike McLendon) Subject: LEARNING CW Gary, Deja vu! I really related to your experience with learning morse. I got my no code tech license in the fall of 1993 and decided that I wanted to upgrade. I was 41 yrs old and had always been interested in amateur radio but never had the elmer to help me with getting started. The no-code path was the trigger that got me licensed in 93 as I have a technical background; but no morse... well I bought the tapes and began the lessons. I thought I was stupid - the more I worked the worse I got as far as where I thought I was in the scheme of things (a lot like you related). Here is what then happened: I worked out with the tapes at 5 wpm for 20 minutes in the car on the way to work and 20 minutes on the commute home. After about 4-5 weeks, I had abused my brain to the point that I actually could recognize most of the characters so I went to an exam session to try out my new skill - and flunked the exam. Well that really hacked me off - a slap in the face! Old farts can't learn a new 'language' they say. Need more motivation to learn morse? Listen to several bad 75M phone conversations and you will realize that there are other modes (CW and digital) and phone bands where people are much more congenial. You are going to need the higher classes of licenses to work the better bands. I started to listen to the W1AW code transmissions at slow speeds on the air and: hey I was getting most of the stuff! So I started to also listen to the novice bands on the air and: hey I was getting a lot of the better 'fists'! I went back to the tapes after a few nights of listening to code on the radio and IT WAS MUCH EASIER! Really began a plan to alternate tapes and on the air code listening and also tried to copy in my head. This made it actually fun. I also studied the general class technical material for a break in the routine. So I took another shot at the exam at 5 wpm and passed (also passed the general written exam)! What a rush... doing something that really challenged me and being successful was a great feeling. Took me 3 months from start to finish at 5 wpm. Worked a lot of people in Ohio on the novice bands (that is where my low hanging dipole launched my signals). I kept thinking about that general written exam I had passed earlier and decided that I wanted the rest of the tests to be over with so I went back to the tapes to take me to 15 wpm (so I would pass the 13). Again I alternated tapes with on air practice from W1AW and live QSOs. And I also studied the advanced and extra written material. When I went to take my 13 wpm test, I auditioned the morse test at 20 wpm just to listen and passed! At 20!- left the morse exam room and proceeded to take and pass the advanced and extra exams at one sitting! I entered the exam session as a no code tech and left as an extra class in 9 months! I was really happy with that day's work. It took many beers that night to celebrate. Summary: just keep at it and try to make learning code something that you WANT to do. It sure isn't easy to learn for a lot of people myself especially. But you will whip it... By the way I seem to have stabilized at about 15-18 wpm and really enjoy the occasional cw ragchew with a good operator. Cheers Gary and best regards - cul 73 - Mike - KE4END ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:43:08 GMT From: mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (Mike, KN6IS) Subject: LEARNING CW In article <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org>, gary.rawson@mindless.org (GARY RAWSON) wrote: > Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will > get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before > October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest > with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code > tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it > to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15 > characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go > the more characters I miss. In another words when I first > start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little > more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems > like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody > do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning > the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first > started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working > HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when > my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air > are listening it to this year. > > 73's > Gary > N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA > Gary.Rawson@mindless.org > > ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N) > --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 Gary, there are more ways to do this than you care to know. Each of us learns differently. I had the same problem so I stopped with my practice when I started missing more characters. Sometimes in 5 minutes and sometimes in 20. Some days are worce than others. You have to custimize it to your own need and capability. The radio shack tapes are ok, but I found that geting on the air really helped me. Your not alone. Good luck!! > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > The MindLess One's BBS (304) 723-2133 Weirton, WV > > RIME #5266, FIDO 1:129/161, USENET mindless.org > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mike, KN6IS ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 1995 03:10:52 GMT From: crcarlson@netins.net Subject: LEARNING CW Gary: My Elmer, at least my first one, was my Uncle Charlie who qualified as a high speed code operator in WWII. He taught me more than just a few morse characters. The Army had done extensive study of *how* people learn c.w. He explained to me that he, like most of the men in his outfit, hit three plateaus at about 5, 13 and 20 WPM. He said it was hard to learn code at first but, of course, the army way is to do it until it bleeds or hurts. Practice, practice, practice seems to be the three best ways to do it. I took a college class in ham radio and practiced every day for at least about 20-30 minutes. I mean, after all, it was homework! In one semester I got to 13 WPM. Its taken me another 20 years to finally start working on my speed aga in and get to 20 wpm (where I have plateaued) Good luck on you quest! Also on the air practice is maybe the best and most fun. 73 de WB0FDJ ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 1995 00:36:27 GMT From: Danny Goodman Subject: Question about Sommer vertical antenna marktaint@aol.com (MARKTAINT) wrote: >I'm interested in comments that anyone has regarding the Sommer HF >Skydisk. It looks interesting and the price is comparable to other vert. >antennas. >Please e-mail or post responses about this antenna. > >Thanks very much. > >Mark Taintor N0YRW > >MARKTAINT@aol.com The last time I called them for a spec sheet, it was to go out the following w eek. That was sometime in early November. Danny AE9F/6 http://www.dannyg.com ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 95 00:08:33 -0800 From: Ricker_msn@msn.com (Rick Ruhl) Subject: Stuff to build YAGI's with. Fellow hams: Can anyone give me advice on where to find the following parts. I'm trying to build a 20 meter short yagi from the 1978 handbook, and no one seems to know what I'm talking about or where I can get it. 1. 1-1/8 in dia Plexiglas rod (for winding the coils on) sources or 1995-96 options are appreciated. 2. 140 pf Variable Capacitor or a 1995-6 equvilant. Once I build this beam, I hope to publish an article on it, in which other hams with limited space can build this also. Ricker ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 1995 22:13:33 -0500 From: marktaint@aol.com (MARKTAINT) Subject: The Best Wire Antenna I'd second what WB9IQI said about the half-square. I made one for 15M last winter and hung it so the tips were only a few feet off the ground. Couldn't get it any higher than that at the time. I made a contact with a P29 station who told me I had the biggest signal coming into Papua New Guinea that day. (I was using a 500 watt linear at the time.) Antennas West sells these, or you can easily build one yourself. They also sell a booklet that tells about the theory and how to make them yourself. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 95 06:11:52 GMT From: Listserv@mail.ucsd.edu (Mailing List Processor) Subject: your LISTSERV request "help greenhorn with mfj+longwire" The mailing list "greenhorn" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. ------------------------------ End of Ham-Ant Digest V95 #613 ****************************** From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news From: Jim/AC4CZ Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Extremely narrow-band antennas? Date: 19 Dec 1995 02:54:23 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Lines: 32 Message-ID: <4b59gv$4q9@zippy.cais.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.252.17.252 X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) > blanton@ni.net (J. L. Blanton) writes: > In article , hbaker@netcom.com (Henry > Baker) wrote: > > > How would I go about building a very narrow-band antenna, say picking out > > only 10 KHz in a 900 MHz band? > > Antennas usually aren't intentionally designed to be narrowband, but an > electrically short antenna ends up that way when its reactance is matched > to the transmission line's impedance. The shorter the antenna (i.e. the > more inductive loading required) the narrower the bandwidth. > Unfortunately, as the radiator is shortened the efficiency goes down, > reducing the antenna's effectiveness on the desired signals. To reject > interference while retaining a reasonable level of the desired signal > you're probably better off using a normal antenna followed by a passive > low-loss filter. Use a bandpass filter to pass the desired signal or a > band reject filter to reject a specific interfering signal at a known > frequency. > > 73, > > Lee, WA8YBT/6 > Temecula, CA > >>>> There is no way I know of to build an antenna that has a 10Khz response while operating at 900 Mhz. You did not say what the skirts of the band pass would be so it is difficult to see just what you are looking for. I have no idea why you would wish to do so mething like this unless it is to eliminate an adjacent signal. Use a band pass or ba nd reject filter to eliminate the problem. 73/Jim/AC4CZ From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:33 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!nrcnet0.nrc.ca!tesla.iar.nrc.ca!jordan From: jordan@tesla.iar.nrc.ca (Jim Jordan) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Extremely narrow-band antennas? Date: 19 Dec 1995 14:31:25 GMT Organization: National Research Council Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4b6ibt$fnd@nrcnet0.nrc.ca> References: <4b59gv$4q9@zippy.cais.net> Reply-To: jordan@tesla.iar.nrc.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: tesla.iar.nrc.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Have a look at microstrip antennas. Bandwidth is related to thickness. I'm not sure if it is practical to attain such a narrow bandwidth but it may be worth a look. Jim From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!newsfeed.gsfc.nasa.gov!usenet From: parise@gelato.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ron Parise) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7??? Date: 20 Dec 1995 16:31:26 GMT Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center -- Greenbelt, Maryland USA Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4b9dou$ae3@post.gsfc.nasa.gov> References: <4b6vqh$eq5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: astrolap.gsfc.nasa.gov X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.5 In article <4b6vqh$eq5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, gbohner@aol.com (GBohner) says: > >Any comments on the above verticals? >The Gap is $100 cheaper and also covers 80M, so why is $100 cheaper. I >have had an R7 which worked good until it got hit by lightening. How is >the quality of the Gap Titan vs the Cushcraft? Anybody ever use the >Titan? Is the VSWR good? How does it get out on all bands including 80? I too would like to hear about experiences with the GAP Titan. Materials? Ease of assembly? Structural strength? Performance? Ron Parise, wa4sir From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:35 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!cornellcs!rochester!rocksanne!news From: norder@scan.mc.xerox.com Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7??? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: Lines: 38 Sender: news@news.wrc.xerox.com Organization: Xerox X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage References: <4b6vqh$eq5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:48:03 GMT In Article<4b6vqh$eq5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, write: > > Any comments on Gap Titan vs the Cushcraft? Anybody ever use the > Titan? Is the VSWR good? How does it get out on all bands including 80? I have a Titan. Some comments/warnings: 1. About the worst assembly instructions I have come across. 2. They advertise outstanding SWR's, but I bet they only apply if you have the antenna mounted in the center of a big field! Mine is next to the garage, which may be inter- fering with the performance. 3. At first the "no radials" sounds great. But, keep in mind that you have to mount the antenna in such manner to insure that the 80" counterpoise rods clear buildings, etc. Personally, I wish I would have considered one of the other GAP's: the one that uses the 3 25ft counterpoise wires. 3. GAP's may be cheaper than R7's because they don't use any coils. But, Cushcraft appears to have a larger advertising budget to support! And, the reason may simply be: charge what the customer will pay! 4. Theoretical discussions abound re: GAP's claims of why it is a better design than other vertical designs. Some believe that they have "misused" some pretty basic antenna design principles in order to support their claims. Bottom line for me: I can NOT heartily endorse the GAP. It appears to "work", but I'm not sure how well. I have some rather high SWR's in spots, but am able to load it OK using the antenna tuner built in to the Kenwood TS850S. 73 de KG2EP (Paul) From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Gehrke's input regarding Doty's article Date: 21 Dec 1995 12:17:37 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bbj91$11te@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Doty's experiment was intended to be a "real world" setup, with a xmtr that is remote from the antenna and fed with a long coax. Many VLF/MF stations are set up this way. The goal is to collect *all* of the ground current to the base of the antenna and return it to the xmtr via the braid of the coax. It is perfectly reasonable to expect that if the number of radials is not extremely large, some of the ground current will meander off in odd directions and eventually reach the xmtr, in the process heating up the ground, lighting light bulbs, electrifying chain link fences etc, etc. These are precisely the problems that the VLF and BC guys deal with. Kirchoff is always satisfied, one way or another, back at the xmtr, but maybe not completely at the base of the antenna. If the coax center wire current is not equal to the braid return current the coax will *radiate* to some extent (as W8JITom has mentioned). And of course these stray currents add to the system losses and also affect the antenna driving point resistance. I think it is not useful to be worrying a lot about Kirchoff, but instead use the current deficit as a measure of the effectiveness of the radial system, and do what is needed to eliminate the deficit. (Put Newt Gingrich to work on it). Finally, I would like to see a more charitable assessment of Doty's work on this current deficit problem. I have talked with him on the telephone and found him to be a credible guy whose opinions I respect. 73, Bill Sabin W0IYH From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!jaxnet.jaxnet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sandia.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!lynx.unm.edu!cobra.unm.edu!BOARDMAN From: boardman@cobra.unm.edu (Bob Boardman) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Good 2m Mag-mount Antennas? Date: 20 Dec 1995 18:20:35 GMT Organization: UNM Cancer Research & Treatment Cntr Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4b9k5j$87p@lynx.unm.edu> Reply-To: boardman@cobra.unm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.unm.edu I'm looking for a good 2 meter mag-mount antenna so I can use my Kensood TH22-AT in my vehicle. The MFJ-1278B 5/8 wave mag-mount for $24.95 is certainly attractive in terms of price. I'd appreciate any comments from anyone who has used one of these, or suggestions for any other 2m mag-mount antennas I should consider. -Bob P.S. I would have had a callsign by now, but the damn FCC shut down with the rest of the worthless "non-essential" Feds... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- = | Bob Boardman, UNM Cancer Research & Treatment Center, Albuquerque, NM | | internet: boardman@cobra.unm.edu | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- = From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:38 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Grounding problem with G5RV? Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:23:30 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4asicp$s4a@crash.microserve.net> References: <4an0g7$h86@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 cdorn@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Chris Dorn) wrote: >The difficulty began when I bought a Drake TR7 solid state unit. With >the unit I could not tune 80m. Other bands are fine, but on 80m the >SWR would shoot from 3:1 to 10:1 at times. The unit is fine on 80 >into a dummy load. Chris, Are you using a tuner? That's normally considered a "must" with the G5RV, at least if you want to use it on all bands. The need for a RF ground at the rig is an indicator that RF is flowing on the outside of the coax. If the ladder line was brought directly into your shack, and you were to use a balanced tuner (not a balun conversion), the overall situation would be greatly improved. You might try a ferrite choke on the outside of the coax where it connects to the ladder line. That will help keep the RF from getting back into the shack, although it might also absorb some power on certain bands. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news1.radix.net!xcitor From: xcitor@radix.net (xcitor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Ham-Ant Digest Date: 20 Dec 1995 20:52:29 GMT Organization: People's Republic of Laurel, MD, USA Lines: 2 Message-ID: <4b9t2d$k95@news1.radix.net> Reply-To: xcitor@radix.net NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Does anyone know how I can subscribe to this list? From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!io.org!van-bc!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: N1MM@aol.COM Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #609 Date: 17 Dec 95 16:28:41 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 24 Message-ID: <951217112841_92626719@mail06.mail.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu In a message dated 95-12-17 09:57:33 EST, you write: >Date: 17 Dec 1995 00:55:58 GMT >From: km3t@akorn.net (Dave Pascoe KM3T) >Subject: Wrist rocket > >I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot >which is useful for launching wires up over trees. > >Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net. > >73 >Dave K-Mart sells a Marksman slingshot here in Connecticut. Works fine. Just make sure you hold it with the handle up, and the fishing line laid out in front of you. This will avoid the line getting caught on you or the slingshot. Painting the lead weight bright orange is said to help. One other note. If you have to pull it back to you, remember that the weight will come flying back at wherever you hold the fishing line, so hold it away from your head. Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: rpmarkey@nbn.NET Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #610 Date: 19 Dec 95 02:37:54 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 34 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu >From: km3t@akorn.net (Dave Pascoe KM3T) >Subject: Wrist rocket > >I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot >which is useful for launching wires up over trees. > >Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net. > >73 >Dave >K-Mart sells a Marksman slingshot here in Connecticut. Works fine. Just >make sure you hold it with the handle up, and the fishing line laid out in front >of you. This will avoid the line getting caught on you or the slingshot. >Painting the lead weight bright orange is said to help. One other note. If you >have to pull it back to you, remember that the weight will come flying back at >wherever you hold the fishing line, so hold it away from your head. >Tom Do yourself a favor. After you buy the slingshot, fishing reel, and paint the sinker orange, buy yourself one of those cheap plastic face shields that most of the home improvement stores like Lowe's sells. Wear it when you fire the slingshot. It is possible to get a misfire that will cause the sinker to come back at you. I got nailed in the chops and broke a tooth. Darn lucky I didn't get hit in the eye. The shield is a lot cheaper then the dentist; or worse! de Rick, KN3C From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!europa.com!usenet From: "Frank A. Adrian" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Helically wound dipoles Date: 19 Dec 1995 06:30:29 GMT Organization: ancar technology Lines: 38 Message-ID: <4b5m65$3a6@atheria.europa.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: europa115.europa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) I'm thinking of putting up an antenna for longer wavelength reception. Being limited in horizontal space and not really wanting to dig up the yard to install radials, I've looked over the possibilities and have decided that for longer wavelengths, a helically-wound dipole, mounted in a vertical orientaton, would probably be OK. Has anyone ever set up one of these beasties? The main reason I ask is that there are some books out there that describe this configuration, but they give minimal and inconclusive (or even conflicting) information about this configuration (e.g., most books say that this configuration's Q is higher than a normal dipole, but one book says that because of the wire's larger effective diameter, it will have a lower Q than a dipole). Any information anyone would be able to provide would be appreciated. I also have a few other specific questions about this configuration: 1) Is the capacitance hat installed to lower the Q of the antenna (thus increasing the useful bandwidth) or is it installed to make the feedpoint impedance more closely match that of normal feedlines? 2) Given reasonable size capacity hats (say no more than 3 ft. in diameter), how low can you get the antenna's Q? 2) Given that the linear loading of the helical winding changes the length of wire needed to resonate at a certain frequency, is there any hope that the antenna will resonate on higher bands anywhere near a multiple of the fundamental resonance frequency? (E.g., will an antenna tuned for 80M also be resonant at 40M? Anywhere close?) 3) Can helicals be arrayed? How well? Well, that's about it. Any anecdotal evidence would be appreciated (not that I would ignore any information made by someone doing an actual EM model :-). Thanks in advance... Frank A. Adrian franka@europa.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Helically wound dipoles Date: 19 Dec 1995 08:51:25 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 36 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b6g0t$8u3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4b5m65$3a6@atheria.europa.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Frank, In article <4b5m65$3a6@atheria.europa.com>, "Frank A. Adrian" writes: >1) Is the capacitance hat installed to lower the Q of the antenna (thus >increasing the useful bandwidth) or is it installed to make the feedpoint >impedance more closely match that of normal feedlines? Yes, it lowers system Q. And it also can increase efficiency. >2) Given reasonable size capacity hats (say no more than 3 ft. in >diameter), how low can you get the antenna's Q? Depends on the antenna length and frequency. If the antenna is very short in terms of wavelength, the Q is determined by the series reactances and resistances. The less lumped inductance and the more capacitance, the lower the Q for fixed losses. But for any reasonable efficiency short antenna the Q will be pretty high. >2) Given that the linear loading of the helical winding changes the >length of wire needed to resonate at a certain frequency, is there any >hope that the antenna will resonate on higher bands anywhere near a >multiple of the fundamental resonance frequency? (E.g., will an antenna >tuned for 80M also be resonant at 40M? Anywhere close?) Pure luck. >3) Can helicals be arrayed? How well? Depends on what you mean and what the application is. As a general rule, not very well. They are lossy antennas, and losses are increased in an array by the decrease of radiation resistance that generally goes along with pattern compression. For receiving this may not matter, as long as the array sensitivity remains limited by outside noise. 73 Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!zib-berlin.de!news.tu-chemnitz.de!irz401!news1.urz.tu-dresden.de!server2.rz.uni-leipzig.de!news.uni-jena.de!news.tu-ilmenau.de!prakinf2.PrakInf.TU-Ilmenau.DE!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Helically wound dipoles Date: 19 Dec 1995 16:14:37 GMT Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4b6odd$1agu@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <4b5m65$3a6@atheria.europa.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de In article <4b5m65$3a6@atheria.europa.com>, Frank A. Adrian wrote: >I'm thinking of putting up an antenna for longer wavelength reception. Hi Frank, If you are just interested in reception, a loop antenna is perfectly OK, even a small whip (active antenna). Anyway, a helical dipole is by far not the best method to lower the resonant frequency, lumped loading coils are better. 73, Moritz DL5UH From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!uunet!in2.uu.net!sunrise.gv.ssi1.com!oronet!news From: rst-engr@oro.net (Jim Weir) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Helically wound dipoles Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:12:59 GMT Organization: RST Engineering Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4b762d$544@hg.oro.net> References: <4b5m65$3a6@atheria.europa.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 "Frank A. Adrian" wrote: >I'm thinking of putting up an antenna for longer wavelength reception. [snip in consideration of bandwidth] And I'd like to know if anybody has tried this at VHF -- specifically 100-500 MHz. or so, or a reference to a text that describes it in functional (as opposed to analytical) detail. Jim Jim Weir VP Engineering | "We seem to be standing on RST Engineering | the foreskin of technology." Grass Valley CA 95945 | (Gen. Chuck Yeager) voice/fax 916/272-1432 | rst-engr@oro.net AR Adv WB6BHI CFI A&G/Comml Inst A&G/A&P/C-182A N73CQ From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!church.dcss!hwfn!james!aa766 From: aa766@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Michael Panopoulos) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help - 160m Beverage Date: 21 Dec 1995 06:57:58 GMT Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4bb0hm$72p@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN] Hello and thanks for reading this. I want to erect a 1000 foot long wire abt 8 feet above ground for receiving only. Any sugestions how to how to terminate the end? And, what to do in building a matching section? Thanks Mike VE3AHQ -- From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help - 160m Beverage Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:34:55 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 26 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bbraf$cms@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bb0hm$72p@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Mike, In article <4bb0hm$72p@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca>, aa766@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Michael Panopoulos) writes: >Hello and thanks for reading this. > >I want to erect a 1000 foot long wire abt 8 feet above ground for >receiving only. It's pretty well established that lengths over 1 wl don't add performance, but they don't hurt much either. >Any sugestions how to how to terminate the end? And, what to do in >building a matching section? Terminate it in a 400 to 700 ohm carbon or metal film low power resistor. Use multiple ground rods and perhaps a small group of buried wires at both ends. The ground doesn't need to be real good. I use a small ferrite core transformer here with a stack of four FB-73-801 beads. Two turn primary (to rx) and a five or six turn secondary of small enameled wire. The system isn't critical. 73 Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.crd.ge.com!usenet From: sutliff@crd.ge.com (John A. Sutliff) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: help greenhorn with MFJ+longwire Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:43:16 GMT Organization: GE Corp R&D Center, Schenectady NY Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4b4cm3$pa7@rdsunx.crd.ge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: backscatter.crd.ge.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I have 500ft of wire and an MFJ 491E?? tuner which has a wire in/out connector. If I use that connector I need no feed line but should I be concerned about how I configure the wire to its first support?? Right now the wire goes straight up from ground level (where tuner and electrical ground are) about 20 feet then turns a right angle and slopes up to first support (tree) about 80 feet away. I just hooked it up yesterday and let the remaining coiled wire at the base of the tree, so it's more like two verticals sections at the moment. Any comments, advise, help. Right now want to listen, but after I pass code will want to do cw and SSb on 10m/40m/80m. John Sutliff From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usr7ip18.azstarnet.com!user From: zygo@azstarnet.com (Jim Mandaville) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: help greenhorn with MFJ+longwire Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:01:23 +0600 Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <4b4cm3$pa7@rdsunx.crd.ge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr7ip18.azstarnet.com In article <4b4cm3$pa7@rdsunx.crd.ge.com>, sutliff@crd.ge.com (John A. Sutliff) wrote: I just hooked > it up yesterday and let the remaining coiled wire at the base of the > tree You're setup sounds fine to me, John, except for that coil of extra wire on the ground. That's probably acting like a capacitor to ground and losing you a lot of signal. Better to cut off the wire at the far end where it's still high, or keept the end coil very compact and keep it high at the end (if you can't find a high support to continue to). 73, Jim, KG5KP From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:51 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!ieunet!maths.tcd.ie!news.tcd.ie!usenet From: butler@ee.tcd.ie Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.tcd.ie (TCD News System ) Organization: Teltec, MEE, Trinity College Dublin X-Newsreader: Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:57:17 GMT Lines: 40 In article <4b4b63$evr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) writes: >>Can somebody shoot me the formula for free space path loss of a radio >signal? >>Your assistance is much appreciated. > >Rick-- >Good question!! From memory, I think the equation is 36.6+20log f + 20 >log d. >f is in mhz, d is in miles, and the answer is in db. This should be >checked, since I have not used the equation in several years. > >However, remember that the equation is for a point source, and assumes >that radiation is in all directions, thus the path loss. (The total >radiated power is distributed on the imaginary spherical surface at >distance d. As d increases, the watts/square surface decreases.) > >So...keep in mind that a pair of perfect dish antennas pointed at each >other would have NO path loss. i.e. all the transmitted power is >received. > >--Wayne W5GIE in Redlands, CA The last statement here is incorrect -- path loss always exists. The overall equation for directional antennas is Loss = Path Loss -(Tx Ant Gain + Rx Antenna Gain ) where the antenna gains are in the direction of the other terminal. This means that antennas directly pointing at each other will have the maximum gain (maximum effective radiated power) but if the beams are offset then the actual gain will be less. Dr. Gerry Butler, CEng. MIEE. [butler@ee.tcd.ie] TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin 2,Ireland Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering, [ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ] From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usenet From: Wes Stewart Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss Date: 19 Dec 1995 13:35:19 GMT Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4b6f2n$9m2@news.azstarnet.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: usr8ip34.azstarnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) butler@ee.tcd.ie wrote: >In article <4b4b63$evr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) >writes: > [bandwidth reduced] >>So...keep in mind that a pair of perfect dish antennas pointed at each >>other would have NO path loss. i.e. all the transmitted power is >>received. >>--Wayne W5GIE in Redlands, CA >The last statement here is incorrect -- path loss always exists. >The overall equation for directional antennas is >Loss = Path Loss -(Tx Ant Gain + Rx Antenna Gain ) >where the antenna gains are in the direction of the other terminal. >Dr. Gerry Butler, It appears that if a "perfect" antenna can be described as one with infinite gain, then you fellows are in complete agreement. How refreshing 73, Wes -- N7WS From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:53 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk From: "Anthony R. Gold" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 12:33:37 GMT Organization: Microvest Limited, London Lines: 21 Message-ID: <819376417snz@microvst.demon.co.uk> References: Reply-To: tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 In article butler@ee.tcd.ie writes: > In article <4b4b63$evr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) > writes: > >So...keep in mind that a pair of perfect dish antennas pointed at each > >other would have NO path loss. i.e. all the transmitted power is > >received. > > The last statement here is incorrect -- path loss always exists. Perhaps all you really mean is that there are no perfect dishes. If two perfect dishes pass 100% of the power from one to the other, where is there scope for loss? Regards, -- Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM email: tgold@panix.com tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk From: "Anthony R. Gold" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 10:52:28 GMT Organization: Microvest Limited, London Lines: 19 Message-ID: <819456748snz@microvst.demon.co.uk> References: <4b6f2n$9m2@news.azstarnet.com> Reply-To: tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.demon.co.uk In article <4b6f2n$9m2@news.azstarnet.com> N7WS@azstarnet.com "Wes Stewart" writes: > It appears that if a "perfect" antenna can be described as one > with infinite gain, then you fellows are in complete agreement. Not exactly. The perfect dish contemplated has zero beam width. The signal passes in a perfect cylinder which is wholly captured by the receiving dish. In terms of the dish's gain versus an isotrope or a dipole, that gain will increase with distance from the dish and it will only be infinite at an infinite distance from the dish. By which time the operator without perfect bladder control will have wondered off. Regards, -- Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM email: tgold@panix.com tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:55 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss Date: 20 Dec 1995 02:51:25 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 21 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b8f9u$7in@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Well, the intention was not to stir up a debate with the fictitious perfect dish example. I was trying to illustrate that path loss occurs because of dispersion of a signal on a spherical surface around the radiator, rather than by attenuation through the medium of free space. At twice the distance, the power is distributed over 4 times the area, leading to a 6 db path loss each time the distance is doubled (assuming a fixed receive antenna). However, my perfect dish antennas do not permit the signal to have an angular dispersion. The radiated power is spread across a disk the size of the dish. The size of this disk is constant at any distance, thus having a constant density of x watts per square whatever. Thus, no path loss. If I permit dispersion at a very small angle, and increase my receiving antenna size such that all radiated power is captured, there also is no path loss. I might conjecture that there is no path loss for a point radiator centered inside a spherical receive antenna. --Wayne W5GIE in Redlands, CA (On the other hand....what do I know? I'm management) From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:56 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!ieunet!news.tcd.ie!usenet From: butler@ee.tcd.ie Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.tcd.ie (TCD News System ) Organization: Teltec, MEE, Trinity College Dublin X-Newsreader: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:15:10 GMT Lines: 35 In article <4b8f9u$7in@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) writes: >Well, the intention was not to stir up a debate with the fictitious >perfect dish example. I was trying to illustrate that path loss occurs >because of dispersion of a signal on a spherical surface around the >radiator, rather than by attenuation through the medium of free space. > >At twice the distance, the power is distributed over 4 times the area, >leading to a 6 db path loss each time the distance is doubled (assuming a >fixed receive antenna). However, my perfect dish antennas do not permit >the signal to have an angular dispersion. The radiated power is spread >across a disk the size of the dish. The size of this disk is constant at >any distance, thus having a constant density of x watts per square >whatever. Thus, no path loss. > >If I permit dispersion at a very small angle, and increase my receiving >antenna size such that all radiated power is captured, there also is no >path loss. I might conjecture that there is no path loss for a point >radiator centered inside a spherical receive antenna. > >--Wayne W5GIE in Redlands, CA >(On the other hand....what do I know? I'm management) > I would agree with the above. Although some loss might occur due to absorption by any material between the antennas. The situation is, however, hypothetical and unlikely to occur in the real world. Dr. Gerry Butler, CEng. MIEE. [butler@ee.tcd.ie] TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin 2,Ireland Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering, [ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ] From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.nic.surfnet.nl!news.sara.nl!news.pi.net!news From: pa3fkm@pop.pi.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: HF on Toyota Pickups Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 22:52:19 PDT Organization: Planet Internet Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: maa44.pi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage In article , writes: > Path: news.pi.net!news.sara.nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.i n ternetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usr7ip18.azsta r net.com!user > From: zygo@azstarnet.com (Jim Mandaville) > Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna > Subject: HF on Toyota Pickups > Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:09:06 +0600 > Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET > Lines: 10 > Message-ID: > NNTP-Posting-Host: usr7ip18.azstarnet.com > > I expect to take delivery of a new Toyota pickup soon and wonder if > anyone has had experience installing an HF rig and antenna in one. I'd be > interested to know of mechanical arrangements that have worked and > especially whether any unusual receiving noise problems or car electronics > problems were encountered. If so, any solutions. My tentative plan is to > install a screwdriver or bugcatcher at the outer left rear of the bed. > There will be a fiberglass shell, which hopefully will have little effect > on the antenna. Thanks and 73. > > Jim, KG5KP > Howdy Jim, No Toyota here, But if for any interest. I just run a converted CB anntena on the trunk of my car. Goes verry well, only one hole, after all it's just a CB antenna. Pascal de PA3FKM From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!news From: jm@drsmesh.com (AA8NF - Joe) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hygain Hytower on 160?? Date: 17 Dec 1995 20:20:39 GMT Organization: DRs Mesh, P.C. Lines: 43 Message-ID: <4b1u2n$md2@pravda.aa.msen.com> References: <4b1lva$jq2@cloner3.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmesh.pnet.msen.com X-Newsreader: OUI 1.0.2 FC >> The most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to remove the baseloading when not on 160... << That is a definite alternative. Another approach is to connect a length of wire at the top of the third tower section (the 24ft mark) and run it horizontally as a 160 decoupling stub. The antenna becomes an "L" design for 160m. The design is consistent in that it retains the auto-bandswitching feature. It is a compromised approach but if it fits your needs you should find the performance to be similar to the base loading coil and potentially morereliable in that no switching is required . How many decoupling stubs can one add to a vertical of this design before it becomes a radiating dummy load? Examine your spacing at 160m and decide if adding the further switching complexity of an additional phasing delay line for this band is desirable or not... -- Thanks....AA8NF - Joe from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA 12/17/95 15:18 _______________________________________ Always available at: jm@drsmesh.com -or- AA8NF@drsmesh.com Please visit our Web Page at: http://www.drsmesh.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.1 mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/ PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4 vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg== =+hd/ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: ronklein@ix.netcom.com (Ron Klein ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Hygain Hytower on 160?? Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:02:18 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4b1lva$jq2@cloner3.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-ftc-co1-10.ix.netcom.com I'd like to find out what others might be doing to use the Hygain Hytower on 160. I have a pair of these used as a 2 ele. phased array on 75 and 40. I've considered trying to put one of them on 160, with switchable control to use it either as part of the array, or as a standalone 160 vertical. Any comments from anybody who might have loaded one of these on 160? The most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to remove the baseloading when not on 160... 73, -- Ron Klein - W0OSK ----------------- ronklein@ix.netcom.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:01 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!composer.inav.net!news From: glawson@inav.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hygain Hytower on 160?? Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 04:00:45 GMT Organization: Internet Navigator, Inc. Lines: 38 Message-ID: <4b5dbq$eg7@composer.inav.net> References: <4b1lva$jq2@cloner3.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dip45.inav.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 ronklein@ix.netcom.com (Ron Klein ) wrote: >I'd like to find out what others might be doing to use the Hygain >Hytower on 160. I have a pair of these used as a 2 ele. phased array on >75 and 40. I've considered trying to put one of them on 160, with >switchable control to use it either as part of the array, or as a >standalone 160 vertical. >Any comments from anybody who might have loaded one of these on 160? The >most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to >remove the baseloading when not on 160... >73, >-- >Ron Klein - W0OSK >----------------- >ronklein@ix.netcom.com Ron: Some time ago I seen an article where someone placed a 40 meter trap at the top of 40 metre radiator and then tied a wire to that to make an inverted L out of the Hytower. On mine I tied a 60 foot wire at the top of the 80 metre radiator to make an inverted L. I matched it on 160 through a tapped coil to ground. It had about 100 kHz of band width. As I remember, I switched in a series capacitor to tune it on 80. I hope this helps. Gayle Gayle Lawson W0FO From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:02 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.crd.ge.com!rebecca!rpi!gatech!news01.aud.alcatel.com!usenet From: sander@aud.alcatel.com (dick sander) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hygain Hytower on 160?? Date: 19 Dec 1995 18:32:42 GMT Organization: Alcatel Network Systems Inc. Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4b70ga$3gj@news01.aud.alcatel.com> References: <4b1lva$jq2@cloner3.netcom.com> Reply-To: sander@aud.alcatel.com NNTP-Posting-Host: techws06.aud.alcatel.com >I'd like to find out what others might be doing to use the Hygain >Hytower on 160. I have a pair of these used as a 2 ele. phased array on >75 and 40. I've considered trying to put one of them on 160, with >switchable control to use it either as part of the array, or as a >standalone 160 vertical. > >Any comments from anybody who might have loaded one of these on 160? The >most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to >remove the baseloading when not on 160... > >73, >-- >Ron Klein - W0OSK Hi Ron, I also use two 18HT hytowers on 75/40m. I use an old Electro Space (ESI) steering-combiner to control them. Hygain sells a trap and wire kit for 160m, but I've never used it. I used a base loading coil and tapped the coil for a low vswr feed point on each tower. I made contacts, but nothing spectacular. I got tired of installing/removing the coils each time I wanted to operate 160m. I ended up building a 60 ft top loaded vertical in another part of the yard. Each of the Hytowers have 32 radials and the 160m vert had 16 radials. I A/B compared them for about a month and come to the conclusion that the homebrew vertical worked as well. Dick, K5QY From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:03 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: ronklein@ix.netcom.com (Ron Klein ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Hygain Hytower on 160?? Date: 21 Dec 1995 13:36:25 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 44 Message-ID: <4bbnsp$7o3@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> References: <4b1lva$jq2@cloner3.netcom.com> <4b1u2n$md2@pravda.aa.msen.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-ftc-co1-11.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 21 5:36:25 AM PST 1995 In <4b1u2n$md2@pravda.aa.msen.com> jm@drsmesh.com (AA8NF - Joe) writes: > >>> The >most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to >remove the baseloading when not on 160... << > >That is a definite alternative. Another approach is to connect a >length of wire at the top of the third tower section (the 24ft mark) and >run it horizontally as a 160 decoupling stub. The antenna becomes an >"L" design for 160m. The design is consistent in that it retains the >auto-bandswitching feature. It is a compromised approach but if it fits >your needs you should find the performance to be similar to the base >loading coil and potentially morereliable in that no switching is >required . >How many decoupling stubs can one add to a vertical of this design >before it becomes a radiating dummy load? > >Examine your spacing at 160m and decide if adding the further switching >complexity of an additional phasing delay line for this band is >desirable or not... > >-- >Thanks....AA8NF - Joe >from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA >12/17/95 15:18 >_______________________________________ >Always available at: > jm@drsmesh.com -or- AA8NF@drsmesh.com > Please visit our Web Page at: > http://www.drsmesh.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > I do not intend to use the pair phased on 160. Have you used the technique which you described above on your installation? What was the resulting performance? 73, de W0OSK -- Ron Klein --------- ronklein@ix.netcom.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:04 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!winternet.com!news From: sholisky Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Invisible fence? Date: 21 Dec 1995 05:01:13 GMT Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4bapmp$a5k@blackice.winternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-67-29.dialup.winternet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna My neighbor just put in an "invisible dog fence". I can just see "fluffy" doing the jig when I fire up on 40 cw....Anybody have one of these modern devices or knows how they respond to RFI (overload) ? Tnx 73's Scott WBřATR From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:05 1995 From: n0nas@hamlink.mn.org (Doug Reed) Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!rosevax!hamlink!fredmail Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Is It possible to get on Message-ID: <819273768.AA04630@hamlink.mn.org> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 06:51:12 -0100 X-FTN-To: Mjo120@mail.usask.ca Lines: 22 MJ>From: mjo120@mail.usask.ca (Sully O'Sullivan) MJ>hi there... MJ>apparently my uncle bought a modem which allows him to use his MJ>ham radio and get onto the net... MJ>does anyone have any kind of information on a system like this? MJ>any info would be much appreciated. You don't have many details but I assume your uncle has bought a packet radio TNC and that one of the other stations in his area is a "gateway" between the radio and the Internet. My guess would be he is using one of the newer 9600 baud packet radio TNC's and the frequency would depend on what is operating in his area. I believe the Ottawa area has such access available and in St Paul where I live there is one station providing such a "gateway" via 444 MHz 9600 baud packet radio. If you need more info, I expect you'll have better luck in rec.radio.digital or a similar area. 73's. Doug Reed, N0NAS email: n0nas@hamlink.mn.org * SLMR 2.1a * What happened to the Paperless Computerized Revolution? From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:07 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!wa2ise From: wa2ise@netcom.com (Robert Casey) Subject: J pole antenna using coax for matching scetion (instead of twinlead) Message-ID: Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) References: <4b9jgi$1gjs@msunews.cl.msu.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 18:13:12 GMT Lines: 63 Sender: wa2ise@netcom17.netcom.com A J POLE ANTENNA USING COAX FOR THE STUB Instead of 300 ohm twinlead. Decided to try using a piece of RG58 coax in place of the usual 300 ohm TV twinlead. They're both transmission lines. So, a quarter wave length of eighter should work (factor in velocity factor in measuring out a quarter wave length, twinlead is 0.88 and RG58 poly is 0.66). And the coax is unbalanced, so no theoritical need for a choke balun (ferrite beads or many turn coil). The coax shield is at RF ground potential, the RF is on the center conductor, and the open end of the quarter wave stub center conductor connects to the end of the half wave dipole. The tap is formed by "T" connecting the stub coax to the coax feedline from the radio. Take some RG58, short shield to center conductor. Measure 13 1/4 inches from the short, remove the outside jacket and shield at this point and beyond. Leave an inch or 2 of center conductor sticking out. Measure 1 inch from the short, and prepare to do a "T" connection here. Create a hole in the outer shield about 1/3 inch long and peel it about half way round the coax. Then take a razor blade and remove enough insulation from the center conductor to bare a small spot. Enough to do a tack solder connection, which connects to the center conductor of the feedline coax. And shield to shield. Take care to get a good connection without shorts. Take your time here. One probably could just use a BNC T connector here, and make a short shorted cable for one side, and a longer cable to feed the dipole on the other. Just keep the overall lengths right. Now connect a length of wire to the center conductor sticking out the open end of the stub, enough so the length of the wire and the amount of center conductor protruding beyond the end of the coax shield totals 37 1/2 inches. This is the dipole part. ASCII attempted diagram: | | | | | 37 1/2 inches | | | ||| _______________||| 13 1/4 inches (includes below 2M HT---bird wattmeter----------------|| 1 inch) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~||| 1 inch ~~~ Used a 2 meter HT and a Bird wattmeter to measure forward and reflected power, indirectly SWR. My forward power was ten times reflected power, not bad. At one point, I had a bad T connection (bad solder joint) that caused the forward power to almost equal reflected power. Fixed that, and now it works like the twinlead Jpoles. Ran my hand along the feedline coax, and the stub, no effect on reflected power. Did get reflected power if I get near the dipole part, as expected. And I could hit repeaters pretty well, considering I was in the basement. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:09 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usenet From: Wes Stewart Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:57:43 GMT Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET Lines: 61 Message-ID: <4b1lmn$lnr@news.azstarnet.com> References: <4avp95$6jh@news.azstarnet.com> <4b057v$4ml@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr6ip50.azstarnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >In article <4avp95$6jh@news.azstarnet.com>, Wes Stewart > writes: > [snip] >That is the point of most concentrated electric field, even though the >bulk of the path is air. > >The only feel for that I have is when I made open wire line from lexan >spacers and #14 wire, the tuning changed a lot after I stripped the PVC >insulation off the wire. At that time I had virtually no test equipment, >so I only know tuning settings were different. > >It would be interesting to see just how much improvement is made if the >solid areas are trimmed back while the coating is left on the wire. > >What do you all think would happen? And what did the QST article say? > >73 Tom Tom: First let me state that my comments were in regard to the effects of moisture on the performance of the line. I fail to see how there would be a significant difference in the loss/tuning of the "window" portion of the line because the insulation was wet. This of course assumes no contamination on the insulation other than water. The presence of the insulation on the wire in the window portion of the line does affect the impedance of that section. The capacitance of these sections, as in any other capacitor, is dependent upon the size and spacing of the plates and the dielectric between them. In this case, there is a dielectric "sandwich" of poly-air-poly. If we remove the two layers of poly, we get a different capacitance per unit length and therefore a different Zo for the section. I feel, but haven't worked up a proof, that the tuning/loss changes you and others experience with these kinds of lines are due in some part to the high SWRs they are usually operated under. The "sensitivity" of the systems are very high; a minor change in anything requires a substantial readjustment. I also believe that using a transmission line who's impedance changes every few inches is a dumb idea. The QST article was directed to beginners and made some claims that were, IMHO exaggerated. The matched line loss was taken from the flawed chart in the ARRL publications and no consideration was given to balun and tuner losses. I wrote some detailed correspondence to Paul Pagel and Dean Straw but it was never published. Dean has promised that the line loss chart will be corrected in future printing of the Antenna Book, however. There is also a new section in the Antenna Book; "Highly Reflective Loads" that bears an amazing similarity to some of my examples. Regards, Wes From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!news.inc.net!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: 18 Dec 1995 00:01:19 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 39 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b2siv$2o9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4b1lmn$lnr@news.azstarnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4b1lmn$lnr@news.azstarnet.com>, Wes Stewart writes: >First let me state that my comments were in regard to the effects of >moisture on the performance of the line. I fail to see how there >would be a significant difference in the loss/tuning of the "window" >portion of the line because the insulation was wet. This of course >assumes no contamination on the insulation other than water. I was questioning how much the dielectric around the conductors affects the line in the window area. I have no feel for how large or small that effect is. >In this case, there is a dielectric "sandwich" of poly-air-poly. If >we remove the two layers of poly, we get a different capacitance per >unit length and therefore a different Zo for the section. >I feel, but haven't worked up a proof, that the tuning/loss changes you >and others experience with these kinds of lines are due in some part >to the high SWRs they are usually operated under. The "sensitivity" of the >systems are very high; a minor change in anything requires a substantial >readjustment. I'm sure it is. But then, that's how that line is usually operated. >I also believe that using a transmission line who's impedance changes every >few inches is a dumb idea. I agree with you, but no one makes good ladder line today! So we are stuck. Anyway, the line does work...even if it could be better. My biggest problem with it is the wind load! I have a 140 foot drop hanging from a dipole. It looks like a sail in the wind. 73 Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 05:53:36 GMT Lines: 16 Message-ID: <819396013.1617@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <4asiae$s4a@crash.microserve.net> <4at6ue$lo9@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) wrote: >Here are some measurements I made years ago and published in QST's >Technical Correspondence in Feb. 1982. I measured the matched loss of >100 feet of flat 300 ohm TV twinlead on 21 MHz. Many thanks for posting this, Roy. I was inactive in '82 and never saw the original article. Those are terrible numbers. This continues to point to the need to build open wire line. Maybe I can split my ladder line and use it for a radial system. ;) 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: mclendon@ix.netcom.com(Mike McLendon) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: 18 Dec 1995 15:06:09 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 65 Message-ID: <4b4011$eb9@cloner3.netcom.com> References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-rtp4-22.ix.netcom.com Gary, Deja vu! I really related to your experience with learning morse. I got my no code tech license in the fall of 1993 and decided that I wanted to upgrade. I was 41 yrs old and had always been interested in amateur radio but never had the elmer to help me with getting started. The no-code path was the trigger that got me licensed in 93 as I have a technical background; but no morse... well I bought the tapes and began the lessons. I thought I was stupid - the more I worked the worse I got as far as where I thought I was in the scheme of things (a lot like you related). Here is what then happened: I worked out with the tapes at 5 wpm for 20 minutes in the car on the way to work and 20 minutes on the commute home. After about 4-5 weeks, I had abused my brain to the point that I actually could recognize most of the characters so I went to an exam session to try out my new skill - and flunked the exam. Well that really hacked me off - a slap in the face! Old farts can't learn a new 'language' they say. Need more motivation to learn morse? Listen to several bad 75M phone conversations and you will realize that there are other modes (CW and digital) and phone bands where people are much more congenial. You are going to need the higher classes of licenses to work the better bands. I started to listen to the W1AW code transmissions at slow speeds on the air and: hey I was getting most of the stuff! So I started to also listen to the novice bands on the air and: hey I was getting a lot of the better 'fists'! I went back to the tapes after a few nights of listening to code on the radio and IT WAS MUCH EASIER! Really began a plan to alternate tapes and on the air code listening and also tried to copy in my head. This made it actually fun. I also studied the general class technical material for a break in the routine. So I took another shot at the exam at 5 wpm and passed (also passed the general written exam)! What a rush... doing something that really challenged me and being successful was a great feeling. Took me 3 months from start to finish at 5 wpm. Worked a lot of people in Ohio on the novice bands (that is where my low hanging dipole launched my signals). I kept thinking about that general written exam I had passed earlier and decided that I wanted the rest of the tests to be over with so I went back to the tapes to take me to 15 wpm (so I would pass the 13). Again I alternated tapes with on air practice from W1AW and live QSOs. And I also studied the advanced and extra written material. When I went to take my 13 wpm test, I auditioned the morse test at 20 wpm just to listen and passed! At 20!- left the morse exam room and proceeded to take and pass the advanced and extra exams at one sitting! I entered the exam session as a no code tech and left as an extra class in 9 months! I was really happy with that day's work. It took many beers that night to celebrate. Summary: just keep at it and try to make learning code something that you WANT to do. It sure isn't easy to learn for a lot of people myself especially. But you will whip it... By the way I seem to have stabilized at about 15-18 wpm and really enjoy the occasional cw ragchew with a good operator. Cheers Gary and best regards - cul 73 - Mike - KE4END From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!dns.crocker.com!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens From: buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: 19 Dec 1995 16:02:06 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 67 Message-ID: <4b6nlu$cpk@tribune.usask.ca> References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Mike, KN6IS (mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil) wrote: : In article <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org>, : gary.rawson@mindless.org (GARY RAWSON) wrote: : > Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will : > get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before : > October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest : > with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code : > tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it : > to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15 : > characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go : > the more characters I miss. In another words when I first : > start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little : > more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems : > like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody : > do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning : > the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first : > started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working : > HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when : > my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air : > are listening it to this year. : > : > 73's : > Gary : > N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA : > Gary.Rawson@mindless.org : > : > ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N) : > --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 Mike: I have a basic operators license (no code) so I am in no position to flame you. I too am learning code. There is a program called Super Morse which is available as shareware. It will take you through the character groups and has several options for drill and practice. With it I found I was plateau-ing at 9 wpm. (I want to be at 12 wpm). So I switched to a different strategy known as the Koch method. Instead of learning the whole character set and building up speed, the Koch method starts with speed and builds up the character set. I have to drive about 45 min. to work each day and so I have 45 minute tapes of random characters transmitted at 15 wpm. I started with just "a" and "b" and kept adding letters. I am now at the point of reliably copying "a" to "n" at 15 wpm. One of the reasons for the plateau is that people build little methods of remembering the letters. (For example x -..- is an inverted p .--. etc.) Most people's brains can do these calculations up to about 10 wpm. or so. Going for a higher speed right away forces one to learn the letter by sound only. I am not saying this is the only way to learn code. It is just the way that seems to work for me. One advantage of having the computer generate random letters is that each letter is equally represented (so in theory I should know them all equally well) and I don't tend to memorize the tapes or anticipate what the word will be (Let's see... we have "th" so far, the next letter should be an "e"... no it wasn't... oh no I missed it ... etc.). 73 -- Brian Buydens There was a young poet named Dan, Department of Computing Services Whose poetry never would scan. University of Saskatchewan When told this was so, email: Brian.Buydens@usask.ca He said, "Yes, I know. VE5RDV From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!usenet From: p.illmayer@sno.mts.dec.com (Pete..) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 06:37:12 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Palo Alto, CA, USA Lines: 108 Message-ID: <4b87ef$5p3@usenet.pa.dec.com> References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> <4b6nlu$cpk@tribune.usask.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: mcs002.pc.sno.dec.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) wrote: >Mike, KN6IS (mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil) wrote: >: In article <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org>, >: gary.rawson@mindless.org (GARY RAWSON) wrote: >: > Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will >: > get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before >: > October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest >: > with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code >: > tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it >: > to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15 >: > characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go >: > the more characters I miss. In another words when I first >: > start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little >: > more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems >: > like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody >: > do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning >: > the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first >: > started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working >: > HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when >: > my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air >: > are listening it to this year. >: > >: > 73's >: > Gary >: > N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA >: > Gary.Rawson@mindless.org >: > >: > ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N) >: > --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 >Mike: >I have a basic operators license (no code) so I am in no position to flame >you. I too am learning code. There is a program called Super Morse which >is available as shareware. It will take you through the character groups >and has several options for drill and practice. With it I found I was >plateau-ing at 9 wpm. (I want to be at 12 wpm). So I switched to a >different strategy known as the Koch method. Instead of learning the whole >character set and building up speed, the Koch method starts with speed >and builds up the character set. I have to drive about 45 min. to work each >day and so I have 45 minute tapes of random characters transmitted at 15 wpm. >I started with just "a" and "b" and kept adding letters. I am now at the >point of reliably copying "a" to "n" at 15 wpm. >One of the reasons for the plateau is that people build little methods of >remembering the letters. (For example x -..- is an inverted p .--. etc.) >Most people's brains can do these calculations up to about 10 wpm. or so. >Going for a higher speed right away forces one to learn the letter by >sound only. >I am not saying this is the only way to learn code. It is just the way >that seems to work for me. One advantage of having the computer generate >random letters is that each letter is equally represented (so in theory >I should know them all equally well) and I don't tend to memorize the >tapes or anticipate what the word will be (Let's see... we have "th" so far, >the next letter should be an "e"... no it wasn't... oh no I missed it ... >etc.). >73 >-- >Brian Buydens There was a young poet named Dan, >Department of Computing Services Whose poetry never would scan. >University of Saskatchewan When told this was so, >email: Brian.Buydens@usask.ca He said, "Yes, I know. >VE5RDV Hello Chaps I'm a VK (OZ) and have an unrestricted licence. (10wpm cw) No-one is going to flame you because you are prepared to put in the effort !! I think what people take offence to is the people that complain that WON'T try !!!.. Yes, there are plateaus that you reach and they can be VERY annoying !! The BEST program that I used was SUPERMORSE v4.0. It's great as it has soundblaster support. I attained 13wpm in 3 months. I was absolutely determined to get my code out of the way and I did. I ended up spending 45 mins per day, every day for 3 months. Through the process I thought I was stupid, had dyslexia and anything else you care to name. It is NOT easy. It needs dedication, turn off the television and get rid of distractions. There is a 99.9% chance that you are capabale and you are just hitting new barriers. How disappointed was I when I thought I was ready, didn't touch they key for 5 days and then had another practice session. I couldn't get passed 5 wpm !!! You are NOT alone in despair . I don't think an Elmer would help. I think this is between you and the key. Only YOU can master it. No one can do it for you !! Best of luck and get through the exam. Afterwards you'll wonder what the fuss is all about !!! Merry Xmas Cheers..Peter e-mail: p.illmayer@sno.mts.dec.com ax25:vk2yx@vk2tgb.nsw.aus.oc (for those that underestand) The opiniuons expressed herein are solely mine and my employer does not have the right to use my opinions.. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!what.whytel.com!primus.ansouth.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!col1.caribsurf.com!root From: "Joseph P. Feehan" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: 19 Dec 1995 18:20:20 GMT Organization: IKEEPMYOWN Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4b6vp4$9hu@col1.caribsurf.com> References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> <4b6nlu$cpk@tribune.usask.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: tlapm1_p5.caribsurf.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) As a ham for some 50 years who operates almost exclusively CW, I can tell you this: 1. There are many impediments to learning the code -- psychological, physiological, and otherwise. There is an initial learning barrier. Everybody has different problems with the code. 2. The barrier is climbed, gone around, or worked-around by listening to on-the-air CW. In the beginning, this calls for a "saturation" effort. Listen & try to grab a letter when you can. Listen until your ears fall off. Listen, listen, listen. YOU WON'T LEARN IT OTHERWISE. I can tell you this works. It's analagous to learning juggling; in the beginning you'll drop everything, but if you persist, you WILL get it. This is the brute force method. I'm sure science could make dramatic improvements in individual cases, but brute force works for everyone! Good luck & hang in there. 73, VP2VBL. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!micro.internexus.net!www.bconnex.net!grumpy.insinc.net!KEY.globalx.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: richardm@advance.COM.AU (Richard Murnane x2175) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Learning CW Date: 20 Dec 95 14:08:00 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 11 Message-ID: <30D74634@central.advance.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu If you have Web access, you might like to check the article: "The Heartbreak of the Morse (Some Tips to Help You Beat It)". It's located at: http://sydney.dialix.oz.au/~wiansw/articles/morse.html or just go to the Wireless Insitute of Australia (New South Wales Division) home page, http://sydney.dialix.oz.au/~wiansw, go to Links, then to Articles... 73 Richard VK2SKY From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!usenet From: crcarlson@netins.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: 18 Dec 1995 03:10:52 GMT Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA Lines: 15 Message-ID: <0099B04C.C656EEA3@netins.net> Reply-To: crcarlson@netins.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net Gary: My Elmer, at least my first one, was my Uncle Charlie who qualified as a high speed code operator in WWII. He taught me more than just a few morse characters. The Army had done extensive study of *how* people learn c.w. He explained to me that he, like most of the men in his outfit, hit three plateaus at about 5, 13 and 20 WPM. He said it was hard to learn code at first but, of course, the army way is to do it until it bleeds or hurts. Practice, practice, practice seems to be the three best ways to do it. I took a college class in ham radio and practiced every day for at least about 20-30 minutes. I mean, after all, it was homework! In one semester I got to 13 WPM. Its taken me another 20 years to finally start working on my speed aga in and get to 20 wpm (where I have plateaued) Good luck on you quest! Also on the air practice is maybe the best and most fun. 73 de WB0FDJ From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!usenet From: phoenix@max.uh.cwru.edu (Joe Molter) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: M2 6 meter halo Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:50:21 GMT Organization: University Hospitals of Cleveland Lines: 6 Message-ID: <4b467v$hot@madeline.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: phoenix.uh.cwru.edu X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Has anyone had experience with M2's six meter halo antenna? I am especially interested for SSB. How does it compare to a dipole for 6? Joe Molter phoenix@max.uh.cwru.edu University Hospitals of Cleveland http://chaos.uh.cwru.edu/uhweb1.html Department of Radiology From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: cpaulien@aol.com (CPaulien) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole Date: 20 Dec 1995 01:11:39 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 10 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b89er$5h0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: cpaulien@aol.com (CPaulien) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the metal of a car roof? Also is there much advantage to using two separate antennas (VHF & UHF) with a duplexer as compaired to a dual band antenna. I just purchased a dual band HT and am planning to install one or more antennas on my car. I am not afraid to drill holes in the roof if I thought it would be an advantage to do so. Chuck Paulien KG0PF From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:22 1995 Path: news.epix.net!plum.epix.net!will From: will@epix.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:05:22 -0500 Organization: epix.net Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <4b89er$5h0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plum.epix.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <4b89er$5h0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> On 20 Dec 1995, CPaulien wrote: > Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the > metal of a car roof? Yes. > Also is there much advantage to using two separate antennas (VHF & UHF) No. Use a dual band ant. will@epix.net - KD3XR - W F Sill, Tunkhannock, PA From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:23 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!news1.boi.hp.com!bblohm From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm) Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole Sender: news@boi.hp.com (Boise Site News Server) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:22:46 GMT References: <4b89er$5h0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: hpbs1686.boi.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho Lines: 17 CPaulien (cpaulien@aol.com) wrote: : Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the : metal of a car roof? Yes. I've used both, mag on the car, drilled and mounted on my old truck. Both worked as well as the other. No problems with speed, etc.. Only two problems: the hole in the truck when I decided to sell it meant I had to do something to fix that and the mag mount didn't do much damage, but it did make a mark on the car (since given to my daughter). The mark on the car was easily removed with elbow grease. The hole in the truck I filled with an old CB antenna I had laying around. Just something to think about in the future. With the truck, for a permanent mount I'd make a bracket and clamp the mag into that or get one of those hood lip brackets or make a bracket that can be attached to existing screws and mount the through connector there instead of drilling in the roof. 73 de Bill, KC7JSD From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:24 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jgardner From: jgardner@netcom.com (Jerry Gardner) Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <4b89er$5h0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:31:10 GMT Lines: 21 Sender: jgardner@netcom11.netcom.com CPaulien (cpaulien@aol.com) wrote: : Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the : metal of a car roof? No. It is always preferable, from a technical point of view, to mount the antenna permanently. Go ahead and drill a hole and use an NMO mount. The installation looks much neater, and you don't have to worry about the coax getting crushed and deformed by the door or window, or whatever else you're routing it through. You don't see mag mounts on police, fire, or service vehicles, do you? : Also is there much advantage to using two separate antennas (VHF & UHF) : with a duplexer as compaired to a dual band antenna. I just purchased a : dual band HT and am planning to install one or more antennas on my car. I : am not afraid to drill holes in the roof if I thought it would be an : advantage to do so. There is an advantage, but not much, to using monoband antennas. Traps can be lossy and should be avoided if possible. -- Jerry Gardner | Maintainer of the Large Format Digest jgardner@netcom.com | Send subscription requests to jgardner@netcom.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!feenix.metronet.com!news From: kqualls@metronet.com (Kelly Qualls) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:47:46 GMT Organization: Texas Metronet, Inc (login info (214/705-2901 - 817/571-0400)) Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4b9i7p$1go@feenix.metronet.com> References: <4b89er$5h0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dal67.metronet.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 In article <4b89er$5h0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> cpaulien@aol.com (CPaulien) writes: >Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the >metal of a car roof? I've never noticed a performance difference, but one cavet on mag mounts: If you leave it on you vehicle, in the same place, for too long, you may run the risk of discoloring the finish under the mag mount. This happened to me when I used my mag in a temporary set-up for a few months. There is now a discolored area where the mag mount was located. I haven't tried yet, but I'm probablly going to try some light compound and see if that helps. Food for thought. 73's and good luck. Kelly Qualls, KC5DEN kqualls@metronet.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:26 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.monad.net!usenet From: Chester Bowles Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole Date: 21 Dec 1995 20:17:12 GMT Organization: Crotched Mountain Foundation Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4bcfc8$lv9@news.monad.net> References: <4b89er$5h0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bowles.cmf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) cpaulien@aol.com (CPaulien) wrote: >Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the >metal of a car roof? > Basically, I agree with the other comments--there's no difference in performance between mag mounts and permanently mounted antennas.However, I did run across one problem with mag mount antennas: I found that during the day when the car sat in the parking lot at work, the snow would sometimes melt allowing a thin film of water to get trapped under the mag mount. Then, at night, the water would freeze which caused the magnet to lose contact (both mechanical and electrical) with the body of the car. Mag mount antennas _do not_ work well under those conditions. Of course, this is only a problem if you live in a place like NH! Chet, AA1EX -- CHESTER S. BOWLES, Vice President, Crotched Mountain Foundation One Verney Drive, Greenfield, NH 03047 603.547.3311 ext. 404 bowles@cmf.org Education, rehabilitation, housing, and managed care for children, adolescents and adults with physical and developmental challenges. http://www.cmf.org From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.datasync.com!news From: Kathy J Fain Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: MONEY!!!!FAST!!!!EASY!!!! Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:53:57 -0800 Organization: Datasync Internet Lines: 144 Message-ID: <30D72665.1589@datasync.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: os-ppp12.datasync.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---------------------------4467977332135" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -----------------------------4467977332135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The attached uuencoded file contains complete instructions. Follow them! You will be amazed and VERY pleased with the results. 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Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mosley PRO-67-C Anyone using this antenna? Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:14:36 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 40 Message-ID: <4b1mmc$kib@cloner3.netcom.com> References: <4ag9e5$gbs@ns3.iamerica.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-ftc-co1-10.ix.netcom.com In <4ag9e5$gbs@ns3.iamerica.net> dteague@iamerica.net (Dave Teague ) writes: > >I am considering the Pro-67-c for my new HF antenna. The antenna is >24' boom and 111 lbs. Windload 12.1 sq. ft. and an $1119.95 pricetag. >Covers 20 thru 10 meters including warc plus 3 elements on 40 meters. > > >It will be installed at about 80 ft. > >If anyone is using this antenna please let me know how it performs, >especially on 40 and 20 meters. > >The specs in the Mosley catalog look impressive. > > > > >KF5IU EM31 Jena, LA >dteague@iamerica.net > > I can't speak to the 67-C, but I'm pleased with my 67B which has 2 elements on 40. Mechanical construction is excellent. I've had no wind problems here in the Colorado front range which is a truly high wind area. I'm telling myself that...."no, I really don't need an additional element on 40", hi. 73, -- Ron Klein - W0OSK ----------------- ronklein@ix.netcom.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!drivel.ics.uci.edu!ucivax!gateway From: turner@safety.ICS.UCI.EDU (Clark Savage Turner WA3JPG) Subject: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions Message-ID: <7558.819500179@safety.ics.uci.edu> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Lines: 19 Date: 20 Dec 95 22:59:31 GMT Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17867 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22811 Anyone familiar with these? I just picked one up at a very good price and it looks pretty good on the inside. It covers 80-10 I am told, and the roller inductor looks right for the job. Did the UT-2000B cover 160? If so, did they switch in extra inductance or add a longer roller inductor? I would like to add 160 to my UT-2000A and suspect it is a simple job with a sturdy switch. Or maybe I can find the UT-2000B for my 160 antenna :-) . Also, I think I recall someone on the antenna group stating that the "ultimate transmatch" design had one of the capacitors doing something silly.... There is a two ganged capacitor that is doing something useless? Just wonder if anyone remembers the comments or has a reference to it. Thanks. Clark WA3JPG From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Roger A. Cox <75052.3037@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: NEC 4 Date: 19 Dec 1995 18:19:10 GMT Organization: Telex Communications, Inc. Lines: 1 Message-ID: <4b6vmu$43d$1@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> References: <30C08ECA.47ED@seldon.terminus.com> NEC4PC is NOT NEC-4. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:33 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:36:56 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4bc5vo$bvh@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> References: <4b9jgi$1gjs@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <4bc3e4$1kuk@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sd8-20.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 21 9:36:56 AM PST 1995 I built a PVC crossed dipole satellite antenna from plans in the Weather Sat. Handbook. It's been up about three years with no problem. I also use a piece of 5' PVC mast for my Discone antenna, again no trouble. The trick is to give it a good coat of paint, I spray paint mine black, which gives the added bonus of making it less visible. 73 de KE6LBX From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!prodigy.com!usenet From: MWVW57A@prodigy.com (Stephen Bosbach) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas Date: 21 Dec 1995 16:53:24 GMT Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bc3e4$1kuk@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> References: <4b9jgi$1gjs@msunews.cl.msu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: inugap4.news.prodigy.com X-Newsreader: Version 1.2 PVC - breakdown in sunlight Yes it will degrade over time in sunlight, but it takes several years, even here in the south. Simple paint (latex) should be enough to keep the pvc from degrading. It becomes brittle to the point you can crumble the thin wall pipe in your hands, but the heavier sched. 40 pipe and fittings last a good deal longer (many years) I have used PVC outside in many situations and will continue to do so. Caveat - check out the RF absorbtion if you plan to use it as an insulator at VHF and above. Stick your sample in the microwave and see if it gets hot. The gray stuff often absorbs a fair amount of RF at microwave freq. Steve KG5BR From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.cici.com!news From: richesop@cici.com (Peter D.Richeson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Quad Antenna Design Software? Date: 19 Dec 1995 02:03:48 GMT Organization: Starbase1 Lines: 35 Message-ID: <4b56i5$jlo@latte.cici.com> References: <4avfkb$hmo@sparky.midwest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: starbase1.cici.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.4 In article <4avfkb$hmo@sparky.midwest.net>, gayle@ldd.net says... > >Hello, Folks: > >Does anyone know of any easy to use software that does design, >evaluation, and optimization for quad antennas? > >What I am looking for is something like Yagi Max only for quads. I >have tried several of the NEC programs (PD/Shareware) but they are >harder to use than just doing the calculations by hand! > >I would prefer PD/Shareware programs (for PCs) but would also like >comments on commercial software. > >Thanks! > >Marty Albert -- KC6UFM > >Marty Albert -- KC6UFM > I have used AO for several ant's 3 quads (Have built 2 and both seem to work) and 3 Jpolls. The two 2M versions went together with no tweking. The 440 need some adjusting. AO is easy to use and it gives you a pix of the ant which is nice. -- | Peter D. Richeson/KA5COI ---+--- richesop@cici.com | "...There's only one life and when comes the last call | We'll find that the Bible was true after all!" -- Bethany Farms **************************************************** http://www.cici.com/~richesop From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!svc.portal.com!news1.best.com!shellx.best.com!usenet From: Danny Goodman Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Question about Sommer vertical antenna Date: 18 Dec 1995 00:36:27 GMT Organization: Best Internet Communications Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4b2d2b$j2e@shellx.best.com> References: <4atb5t$5em@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dgoodman.vip.best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:4atb5t$5em@newsbf02.news.aol.com marktaint@aol.com (MARKTAINT) wrote: >I'm interested in comments that anyone has regarding the Sommer HF >Skydisk. It looks interesting and the price is comparable to other vert. >antennas. >Please e-mail or post responses about this antenna. > >Thanks very much. > >Mark Taintor N0YRW > >MARKTAINT@aol.com The last time I called them for a spec sheet, it was to go out the following w eek. That was sometime in early November. Danny AE9F/6 http://www.dannyg.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:38 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!dns.crocker.com!wizard.pn.com!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet From: charles bolland Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: RADIO STATION DATABASE.ZIP Date: 19 Dec 1995 13:21:09 GMT Organization: Florida Internet Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4b6e85$pve@news.flinet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb44.flinet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.shortwave:67599 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17830 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13224 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22739 Friends, For those of you that have already received the Radio Station Database Demo, I may have typed a line of the unzip instructions incorrectly. The correct unziping instructio ns should read: PKUNZIP.EXE DATABASE.ZIP C:\DEMO2 If you haven't received the demo database for radio stations yet, send me your E-Mail address and I will send it to you via E-Mail Chuck Bolland From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!news From: Ron Dyer Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: RADIO STATION DATABASE.ZIP Date: 20 Dec 1995 12:21:42 GMT Organization: Hewlett Packard Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4b8v4m$ii7@hpscit.sc.hp.com> References: <4b6e85$pve@news.flinet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rdyer.canada.hp.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.shortwave:67640 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17855 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13247 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22795 charles bolland wrote: >Friends, > >For those of you that have already received the Radio Station Database Demo, I may have typed >a line of the unzip instructions incorrectly. The correct unziping instructi ons should read: > >PKUNZIP.EXE DATABASE.ZIP C:\DEMO2 > >If you haven't received the demo database for radio stations yet, send me you r E-Mail address >and I will send it to you via E-Mail Please send copy to Ron_Dyer@hp2000.desk.hp.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.westnet.com!westnet.com!lgreco From: lgreco@westnet.com (Luigi Greco) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Rec Info on Bi-Conical antenna's Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:29:41 GMT Organization: WestNet Internet Services Lines: 7 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4b1nil$rs0@mycroft.westnet.com> References: <4asvr8$4v8@news2.aero.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: westnet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Try Kraus's Book "Antennas" or "Antenna Engineering Handbook" edited by Richard C. Johnson...both published by McGraw-Hill....I think both have theoretical as well as practical treatment on Biconicals. Luigi, N2CWV From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:41 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.math.num-analysis,sci.physics.electromag Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!ames!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!NewsWatcher!user From: hbaker@netcom.com (Henry Baker) Subject: References for Complex Math behind 'Smith Charts' Message-ID: Sender: hbaker@netcom10.netcom.com Organization: nil organization Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 05:25:35 GMT Lines: 11 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17883 sci.math.num-analysis:25411 sci.physics.electromag:7334 Does anyone have a reference to the mathematics behind the so-called 'Smith Charts' used by microwave engineers to match impedences. They look to me like stereographic projections of the complex plane, but perhaps someone else knows a real reference to this mathematical mapping. If I can't find anything else, I'll look up Smith's original articles, which I think were published in 1939 and 1945. -- www/ftp directory: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hb/hbaker/home.html From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news From: "Keith W. Whites" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.math.num-analysis,sci.physics.electromag Subject: Re: References for Complex Math behind 'Smith Charts' Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:35:29 GMT Organization: University of Kentucky Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4bc5t1$c76@service2.uky.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: whites.ee.engr.uky.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:hbaker-2012952125350001@10.0.2.15 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17899 sci.math.num-analysis:25417 sci.physics.electromag:7340 hbaker@netcom.com (Henry Baker) wrote: >Does anyone have a reference to the mathematics behind the so-called 'Smith >Charts' used by microwave engineers to match impedences. They look to me lik e >stereographic projections of the complex plane, but perhaps someone else know s >a real reference to this mathematical mapping. Actually, the Smith Chart is simply a bilinear transformation. These types of transformations map circles in one plane into circles in another plane. Lines are just special cases of a circle -- i.e., degenerate circles. This bilinear tranformation maps normalized total impedance (admittance) on the TL into the complex generalized reflection coefficient plane. >If I can't find anything else, I'll look up Smith's original articles, which >I think were published in 1939 and 1945. That's correct. I'm fortunate enough to own one of the original 1945 copies w hich is the "revised" Smith Chart. But most introductory EM or transmission line text s have a reasonable discussion on the topic. See for example the text by Paul and Na sar "Introduction to Electromagnetic Fields." ______________________________________________________________________ Keith W. Whites e-mail: whites@engr.uky.edu Assistant Professor Department of Electrical Engineering Tele: (606) 257-1768 University of Kentucky FAX: (606) 257-3092 453 Anderson Hall Lexington, KY 40506-0046 From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!intac!njmug!Bill_F._Thornton From: Bill_F._Thornton@njmug.org (Bill F. Thornton) Reply-To: Bill_F._Thornton@njmug.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Distribution: world Subject: REPOST: Rodelvox Ant. Multiplier Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:36:56 GMT Message-ID: <944697309.61073@njmug.org> Organization: New Jersey Macintosh Users Group Lines: 11 Can anyone here advise me if the Antenna Multiplier (TM) by Rodelvox, a reception booster for VHF & UHF TV Channels; and AM, FM and Shortwave Radio reception as advertised in the New York Times for $30 US is any good. I'll be using them for a listed applications. Thanks. Bill /-/ NJMUG BBS \-\ New Jersey Macintosh Users Group /-/ /-/ 908.388.1676 \-\ http://www.intac.com/njmug/ /-/ /-/ (28.8K) FirstClass BBS \-\ /-/ From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ios.com!news From: RobertStansberry Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: scanner freq.listings on cd roms Date: 20 Dec 1995 04:11:05 GMT Organization: Internet Online Services Lines: 2 Message-ID: <4b82cp$e8h@news.ios.com> References: <4atcpd$613@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-13.ts-2.hp.idt.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) GROVE 1-800-438-8155 From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!io.org!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!ip-vanc2-19 From: jrhodes@teleport.com (John D. Rhodes) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Sparkgap lightning protector Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 05:39:44 GMT Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Lines: 72 Message-ID: <4b2uuu$c0g@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-vanc2-19.teleport.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 I was given a spark gap lightning protector which comes from WW-II communications equipment. I'd appreciate some thoughts about how the configuration works, and how best to install it. The newly acquired spark gap consists of two identical units mounted on a sheetmetal bracket. This assembly pair is apparently for ladder line. There are 3 electrodes (I'll call them A, B, and C) in each gap unit which I will now describe: Electrode A is at ground potential -- being fastened to the metal mounting bracket. The electrode shaft diameter is about .125 inches. The business end of the electrode is tapered to about 080 inches with a 30 degree included angle. The end of the electrode is faced off square, much like a sparkplug center electrode. Electrode B faces electrode A, lies on the same axis, and is otherwise identical to electrode A. The gap between these two is about .125 inches. Electrode B apparently was connected to the feedline. The knurled brass head of the 3/8-24 screw which contains the steel electrode is drilled for a banana plug. Electrode C's axis is at right angle to A and B, and the electrode shaft terminates in a needle point (~ 22 degree apex angle). The tip of this needle point is spaced about .010 inches from terminal B electrode shaft, and lies about .030 inches from B's shaft tip. There is no provision for electrical connection to electrode C; it apparently floated in the micarta (?) mounting block. My guess is that electrode C serves as an igniter for the main gap. There should be 10-20 pf capacitance between it and the grounded bracket. The ion cloud produced when a discharge occurs across the B-C gap (.010 inch) would quickly expand, providing a low impedence path for the main discharge across the A-B gap. Does this sound correct? My station uses a fan dipole (2 parallel dipoles separated by 3" cut for 80 and 40 meters up 65 feet suspended between two 150 foot fir trees) fed with window line. I have a Johnson Viking Matchbox (250 watt), and a Heathkit HM2140 (dual meter) SWR/power bridge. The transceiver is a Kenwood TS-520S (~100 watts output). As to installation and application to my system -- I expect Gary Kauffman will have some cogent obervations. But here's something to ponder: during a recent electrical storm, I heard arcing inside the Johnson Matchbox. What I found was that the antenna coil -- which is hooked to the feedline, and is _not_ grounded anywhere -- was arcing to ground. (I have a healthy triple #6 ground line connected to three 6-foot ground rods. This ground system connects to all system components, including the Matchbox). What surprised me, however, was the damage this arcing caused to my Kenwood transceiver; there was no _direct_ arc connection, but the di/dt was sufficient to induce a damaging voltage in the Matchbox link (coil) which connects to the transceiver; this took out the front-end MOSFET. My fix was a crude sparkgap to ground on each side of the ladderline. In addition, I shunted (paralleled) each gap with a 1 meg resistor to bleed off the accumulating static charge I had observed during the storm. This appears to work well. Questions: Is this a good design? Should I consider a similar arrangement with the newly-acquired sparkgap? John D. Rhodes - AA7HL Vancouver, WA jrhodes@teleport.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:46 1995 From: Ricker_msn@msn.com (Rick Ruhl) Subject: Stuff to build YAGI's with. Date: 19 Dec 95 00:08:33 -0800 Message-ID: <00001fea+00001967@msn.com> Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com) Lines: 15 Fellow hams: Can anyone give me advice on where to find the following parts. I'm trying to build a 20 meter short yagi from the 1978 handbook, and no one seems to know what I'm talking about or where I can get it. 1. 1-1/8 in dia Plexiglas rod (for winding the coils on) sources or 1995-96 options are appreciated. 2. 140 pf Variable Capacitor or a 1995-6 equvilant. Once I build this beam, I hope to publish an article on it, in which other hams with limited space can build this also. Ricker From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:47 1995 From: Ricker_msn@msn.com (Rick Ruhl) Subject: Re: Stuff to build YAGI's with. Date: 21 Dec 95 16:16:36 -0800 References: <00001fea+00001967@msn.com> <4b9dl8$8s4@sally.dma.org> Message-ID: <00001fea+000019d3@msn.com> Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com) Lines: 5 Steve: That would have been my first choice (a hamfest) but it's not hamfest season. It'll be March/April before the hamfest's start again. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!ra.cgd.ucar.edu!tomas From: tomas@ra.cgd.ucar.edu (Bob Tomas) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: terminating radial to home plumbing; crossing radials Date: 20 Dec 1995 17:35:34 GMT Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4b9hh6$amh@ncar.ucar.edu> References: <4b194o$cnr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <819474316.6719@pinetree.microserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.cgd.ucar.edu (1) I am installing some additional radials on my ground mounted vertical antenna system and am thinking about attaching the end of one to the home plumbing. The pipes are all copper. I am concerned that this might not be such a good idea since it is a two story house and there are pipes that run vertically located about 30 feet from the antenna. Their lengths are about 5 feet less than the antenna's length. My suspision is that this is a "try it and see what happens" type of problem but I am interested in hearing from operators who might like to comment. (2) I heard that it is not a good idea to cross radials. Is this true? bob From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: jlb@earthlink.NET Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: test Date: 18 Dec 95 12:52:51 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 1 Message-ID: <199512181252.EAA10334@iceland.it.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu test From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:50 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: lscotth@aol.com (LScottH) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: The Best Wire Antenna Date: 17 Dec 1995 09:23:20 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 12 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4b194o$cnr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi All: I've been reading this group for a month or so now and thought I'd start a new thread. The Best Wire Antenna I Ever Made. How's that for a title? Anyway, I'll dig in my files and pull out the best wire antenna designs I've personally made and used. A diagram to make it clear, a few important numbers, and a critigue of proformance. What I don't want, and I don't think anybody wants, is to be refered to a text book design you've never built or worked with. Personal experience only, please. Thanks for reading and we'll see you down the log. DE KA0DAQ aka LScottH@alo.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:51 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1!ts01-ind-20 From: mai@iquest.net (Patrick Croft) Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ts01-ind-20.iquest.net Message-ID: Sender: news@iquest.net (News Admin) Organization: IQuest Network Services X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1 References: <4b194o$cnr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:36:49 GMT Lines: 25 lscotth@aol.com (LScottH) wrote: >Hi All: >I've been reading this group for a month or so now and thought I'd start a >new thread. > >The Best Wire Antenna I Ever Made. How's that for a title? >Anyway, I'll dig in my files and pull out the best wire antenna designs >I've personally made and used. A diagram to make it clear, a few >important numbers, and a critigue of proformance. What I don't want, and >I don't think anybody wants, is to be refered to a text book design you've >never built or worked with. Personal experience only, please. Thanks >for reading and we'll see you down the log. >DE KA0DAQ aka LScottH@alo.com OK - one I'll put near the top in terms of return on investment (due to ease o f installing and performance) , is the lil' half-square. Simple quarter wave verticals operating half wave seperation, simple #12 insul ated wire, simple corner fed (no baluns, no fancy 'isolators', etc), about 4db gain broadside signal. On 40, these compete (or BEAT!) my 2 element yagi's varied between 60-90'. One caution - insulated wire tends to have a lower freq res. than the published formulas. I'm planning on installing a 160 meter haf square next, as will finally have t wo towers high enough to handle! HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL! WB9IQI From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!reeve.research.aa.wl.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!atha!rwa From: rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna Date: 19 Dec 1995 17:47:35 GMT Organization: Athabasca University Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4b6trn$76j@aurora.cs.athabascau.ca> References: <4b5akt$rg8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aupair.cs.athabascau.ca X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV) The best wire antenna I ever built was an 8-element sterba curtain cut for 20m operation. We hung it between a couple of big trees for a Field Day operation and it gave us an absolutely thundering signal. It's a great FD design since it only needs two supports and gives buckets (about 7 or 8 dBd) of gain. It's also a great match to 450 ohm line, we fed it through a 9:1 guanella balun at the transmitter and it was essentially flat across the entire band. regards, Ross ve6pdq -- Ross Alexander, ve6pdq -- (403) 675 6311 -- rwa@cs.athabascau.ca From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:53 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: TVI situation. Suggestions? Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:28:24 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 47 Message-ID: <4bc5fo$bir@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sd8-20.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 21 9:28:24 AM PST 1995 Anyone like to solve TVI puzzles? My xmtr runs 100 watts and I have two antennas, a Hustler vertical and a dipole fed with ladder line. Ladder line and coax are fed to an MFJ Versa Tuner II. I get TVI on both antenna on all bands, most severe on 40m and least severe on 20m. The TV's (with VCRs) have high pass filters. The xmtr has low pass filter. No TVI at all running into a dummy load. Everything is grounded and I have a ground counterpoise wires for the bands I use running from the tuner chassis. CLUE: The severe TVI used to be on 20m with almost NO TVI on 40m (on the vertical), but the situation reversed itself when I went to the roof and tighted the bolts holding the ground radials. Because I get no TVI on a dummy load, can I rule out any radiation from cabinets, cables, connectors and the tuner? If so, then the TVI has got to be mechanical in the radial system of the vertical, but that doesn't explain the TVI on the dipole. The dipole does pass very close to the radials of the vertical, so could the radials be picking up signals from the dipole and radiating them mechanicly? Both feedlines pass close to a gutter, the coax touches the gutter, but the ladder line does not. My radials are mounted to the Hustler by a loop of wire on each radial, with one bolt and washer put over the whole thing. Should I solder them all together with a washer on one end? Any suggestions would be appreciated. 73 de Dan, KE6LBX From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: TVI situation. Suggestions? Date: 21 Dec 1995 13:48:22 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 26 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bca5m$i77@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bc5fo$bir@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bc5fo$bir@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) writes: > >Anyone like to solve TVI puzzles? > > Hi Dan, First of all describe the TVI. Is it on all channels, or on one or two? What channels? The rig has a low pass, what type? What type of hi-pass? Do you have common mode chokes? Is the TV on cable or an antenna? Did you disconnect the VCR's and related stuff and only try the TV? From the information you gave, any answer would be a guess. Tell us more details! 73 Tom From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:56 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!NewsWatcher!user From: estrella@calvin.usc.edu Newsgroups: soc.culture.venezuela,soc.culture.uruguay,soc.culture.spain,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.mexican.american,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.ecuador,soc.culture.cuba,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.argentina,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Un francés está buscando contacto Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:10:39 -0800 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 33 Sender: estrella@catalog10.usc.edu Message-ID: References: <30D28AF5.6972@planete.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: catalog10.usc.edu Xref: news.epix.net soc.culture.venezuela:43405 soc.culture.uruguay:4704 soc.culture.spain:83932 soc.culture.peru:11097 soc.culture.mexican.american:7911 soc.culture.latin-america:39945 soc.culture.ecuador:4286 soc.culture.cuba:32001 soc.culture.colombia:12617 soc.culture.chile:32508 soc.culture.bolivia:10803 soc.culture.argentina:29112 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32273 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95840 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12265 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22806 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13254 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17862 In article <30D28AF5.6972@planete.net>, Philippe CUVINOT wrote: > Hola, > > Soy francés y estoy buscando a amigos para conversar acerca de temas > latino americanos. Me interesa muchísimo la cultura precolombina y > estoy realizando una página a propósito de las grandes civilizaciones. > Escribanme para darme ideas interesantes. Gracias. > Hasta pronto, Philippe. Hola Philippe, Yo soy frances tambien, y vivo en Los Angeles, California. Trabajo como bibliotecario especializado en literatura mexicana y centro americana, en la University of Southern California. Me gustaria conversar contigo en cualquier idioma (espanol, frances, ingles) y ayudarte. Aqui en el sur de la California hay mucha gente de habla hispana y muchas organizaciones culturales : mexicanas, salvadorenas, hondurenas......bueno una fuente muy larga de posibilidades. Puedes usar mi correo electronico directamente estrella@calvin.usc.edu espero hablar contigo muy pronto! gracias JEAN-LUC JEAN-LUC ESTRELLA DOHENY MEMORIAL LIBRARY UNIVERSITY PARK CAMPUS LOS ANGELES, CA, 90089 U.S.A. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!newsmaster From: 72154.1116@compuserve.com (Ken Meinken) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: un-guyed masts Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 05:56:52 GMT Organization: CompuServe Incorporated Lines: 43 Message-ID: <4basuk$49u@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ad34-145.compuserve.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 rayx0020@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Jack Ray) wrote: >I am interested in knowing what options are available for use as un-guyed >antenna supports. I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave >ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy >wires above the house. I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles >and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy >these, how long is practical and what do they cost? >What about hollow fiberglass poles? I am thinking of something like a >pole-vaulting blank. Would these not be stiffer than a solid pole but >still quite strong? >What about aluminum poles? How tall could a 1.5˛ un-guyed aluminum be and >still give reasonable wind performance? >Finally, what about a wooden mast made of ash? >Other suggestions? >Thanks, >Jack >NŘZKA Jack, one option that I know works is a 20 ft 6x6 of treated lumber (available from some lumber yards). I then have two ten ft sections of tv mast on top of that and then an extended Ringo Ranger. Total of 40' plus antenna. Bottom 2.5-3' in the ground. Been up 8 or 9 years in two different locations and holds up very well. If you can't find a solid 6x6, you could bolt some 2x6s together. I wouldn't go with something like ash because it will not hold up as long as treated pine. And it would be a lot more expensive (gee, as a woodworker, I can't even fathom the price of a good 6"x6"x20' ash pole!) 73, Ken From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching? Date: 20 Dec 1995 23:49:59 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4ba7f7$4cd@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sd11-12.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Dec 20 3:49:59 PM PST 1995 I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI. What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack which is 75ohms (i think) Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit? 73 de KE6LBX From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!inn From: Jim Fellows Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching? Date: 21 Dec 1995 02:17:12 GMT Organization: is highly overrated, I prefer chaos. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4bag38$809@murrow.corp.sgi.com> References: <4ba7f7$4cd@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zoinks.corp.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) X-URL: news:4ba7f7$4cd@cloner2.ix.netcom.com scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) wrote: > >I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the >shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to >the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI. > >What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack >which is 75ohms (i think) > >Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit? > >73 de KE6LBX Impedence matching in a discone can be done by varying the angle of the skirt. For 50 ohms the angle is 60 degrees, I will need to look up what it should be for 75 ohms assuming you're using coax. But if you have a pre-made discone, then the mismatch will only result in a nominal 1.5:1 VSWR (the SWR for 75 - 50 ohm mismatch). This should not make a much difference for a TV receiving antenna. Jim -- "It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear", Norm Peterson. The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!! Green Acres *IS* the place to be! jimf@corp.sgi.com From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:26:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!clio.trends.ca!io.org!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!news.cais.com!cais3.cais.com!gttm From: USCG TELECOMMS Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Wrist rocket Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:05:46 -0500 Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <4avpqv$h9l@news.akorn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cais3.cais.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: gttm@cais3.cais.com In-Reply-To: <4avpqv$h9l@news.akorn.net> On 17 Dec 1995, Dave Pascoe KM3T wrote: > I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot > which is useful for launching wires up over trees. > K-Mart, Walmart, Sports Authority. In some states these sling shots are illegal (or used to be) such as in NJ. I've been using one for years with a side-mounted casting reel; it sure beats unrolling and rolling fishing line. I also use 15# monofilament with a one-ounce egg sinker. From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:26:01 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!cornellcs!rochester!news.csug.rochester.edu!rit!sunsrvr6!jdc From: jdc@cci.com (James D. Cronin) Subject: Re: Wrist rocket Message-ID: Sender: root@sunsrvr6.cci.com (Operator) Organization: Northern Telecom, Network Application Systems References: <4avpqv$h9l@news.akorn.net> <4b1imb$eqd@pravda.aa.msen.com> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:13:01 GMT Lines: 6 Any mail order places carry wrist rockets? They were illegal in New York State last I heard. It happened in the early 80's. I have an assult slingshot that predates the law. 73..Jim N2VNO From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:26:03 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help greenhorn with mfj+longwire" Date: 19 Dec 95 06:11:52 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512190611.WAA07111@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "greenhorn" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: hutchison@smart.NET (set 'read-message-folder') Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 23 Dec 95 05:15:10 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 2 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu subscribe Amateur [hutchison@smart.net] From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.jsums.edu!despina.neptune.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: s51fu@ljutcp.hamradio.si Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 25 Dec 95 09:05:38 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 9 Message-ID: <118072@ljutcp.hamradio.si> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Help on Diffraction loss calculation Can somebody shoot me the formulas and/or basic algorithms for Diffraction over obstacles and irregular terrain radio path loss calculation? Any relating computer basic program known? Your assistance is much appreciated! Thanks, Danilo + From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: jpll@vectorbd.vivanet.COM (Jim Lill) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (none) Date: 25 Dec 95 16:45:42 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 13 Message-ID: <199512251645.QAA27159@vectorbd.vivanet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu To: ham-ant@UCSD.EDU (Ham-Ant Mailing List and Newsgroup) Subject: VOACAP antenna files X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Does anyone know of a site that has additional antennas files that could be used in VOACAP ? TIA and Happy Holidays! -Jim WA2ZKD jpll@vectorbd.vivanet.com From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!maw.montana.com!news From: dandroxl@montana.com (Dave and Rox) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: (Q) Broadband directional ant published in HAM RADIO Date: 27 Dec 1995 19:53:12 GMT Organization: Internet Connect Services Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4bs878$hc1@maw.montana.com> Reply-To: dandrox@montana.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ptm23.montana.com X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ I'm looking for information on an antenna written up in one of the last issues of Ham Radio Magazine. I recall the article was written by a German author, and the antenna had a German sounding name (therefore, I don't remember). The antenna was a heart shaped directional with a 10 to 1 band- width. It could be constructed from foil and mounted on plexiglass. The heart shape was split in two (right and left), and the feed was on the bottom where the two pieces come to a point. Radiation was opposite the feed. What I dont remember are the formulas, etc. that were included in the article. If anybody is familiar with this design, or has old issues of Ham Radio Magazine and can look this up I would appriciate whatever assistance. I would also be willing to pay for copying cost if the article is located. Dave - N7MJW. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:15 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwgw.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens From: buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 2M FM Antenna Date: 26 Dec 1995 16:35:56 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4bp89c$52i@tribune.usask.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Awhile back I posted an article seeking advice on building a 2M vertical antenna out of a car antenna. I built the antenna and thought people might be interested in the results. I went to a wrecking yard and found a telescoping antenna 54" long and without a cable. The antenna cost $8 Cdn. (Ones with cables are more expensive but I didn't want the cable anyway.) Then I bought an RG-58 cable ready made ($15 Cdn. which is a bit overpriced but I was feeling lazy). I built an antenna mount from wood and placed the antenna on the roof of my car. Then I set the antenna length to 49" (roughly 5/8 lambda). I don't have an SWR meter but if using the antenna is any test ;-) I am quite pleased with the results. I am able to access almost all of the repeaters within a 30 mile (50 km) radius of my place with only using 4W of power. Once again thanks to all of you who gave me advice. BTW does anyone have suggestions on simple SWR/Directional Wattmeters I could build (preferably one that will work on both 2 and 20 meters)? 73 -- Brian Buydens There was a young poet named Dan, Department of Computing Services Whose poetry never would scan. University of Saskatchewan When told this was so, email: Brian.Buydens@usask.ca He said, "Yes, I know. VE5RDV From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 90 ohm cable on 300 ohm antenna Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 22:32:56 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <819715207.9118@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <4beib0$892@concave.convex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12344 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17955 lcoe@convex.com (Loren Coe) wrote: >i am experimenting with connecting a 90ohm coax directly to a 300ohm >fm antenna. I would use a 300 ohm to 75 ohm transformer at the center of the antenna (the type sold for use with 300 ohm TV antennas at Radio Shack). They cost less than $3.00 and the mismatch between the 90 ohm coax and the 75 ohm input to the transformer will be insignificant in terms of receive efficiency. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nntp.crl.com!crl2.crl.com!not-for-mail From: dmiller@crl.com (Donald J. Miller) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: 90 ohm cable on 300 ohm antenna Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Date: 23 Dec 1995 05:44:57 -0800 Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [Login: guest] Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4bh14p$c0u@crl2.crl.com> References: <4beib0$892@concave.convex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: crl2.crl.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12349 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17960 Loren Coe (lcoe@convex.com) wrote: : matching xfmr. my application is receiving stock quotes on SSB in an SSB? Surely you mean SCA... -- ------------------------------------------------- Don Miller dmiller@crl.com ------------------------------------------------- From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: [Q] Homebrew Hardline? Date: 22 Dec 1995 10:11:34 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 10 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4behr6$bot@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bd9n2$6e9@news1.inlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bd9n2$6e9@news1.inlink.com>, raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) writes: > Even when I use Belden 9913, I use a flameless blowtorch to >heat the coax as hot as I dare and then seal the ends with potting >material before installing the connector. > > ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:19 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.gte.net!news From: "Adam G. Lottes" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: [Q] Homebrew Hardline? Date: 25 Dec 1995 16:55:08 GMT Organization: GTE Intelligent Network Services, GTE INS Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4bml1c$c5i@duey.gte.net> References: <4asvei$4fk@news1.inlink.com> <4bc60t$rgi@hpscit.sc.hp.com> <4bd9n2$6e9@news1.inlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dfw70005.gte.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22KIT (Windows; U; 16bit) To: raiar@inlink.com The formula from the ARRL Antenna Book is Z=276log2S/d where Z=line impedance, S=ceter to center distance between conductors, and d=outer diameter of inner conductor in same u nits as S.For example a 3/4 in copper pipe with a 5/16 inner conductor = ~ 51ohms. I just built the VHF directional coupler from the antenna book. Works great a nd the formula verified their dimensios are correct. Don't think I'd want to try building 50ohm hardline though. Good luck on your project George NF9D From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: s51fu@ljutcp.hamradio.si Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: [Q]: Diffraction loss calculation? Date: 25 Dec 95 16:04:46 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 6 Message-ID: <118316@ljutcp.hamradio.si> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Can somebody shoot me the formulas and/or basic algorithms for Diffraction over obstacles and irregular terrain radio path loss calculation? Any relating computer basic program known? Your assistance is much appreciated! Thanks, Danilo + From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news From: Dave Hockaday Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 23 Dec 1995 12:37:48 GMT Organization: News & Observer Public Access Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4bgt6s$m3c@castle.nando.net> References: <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com> <4aheeb$p7p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4b38ks$8ad@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1303.nando.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) >>We all have found that the ground system is very important. How the >>ground is done, elevated or buried, seems to make little or no >>difference. But the amount of wire you can put in for a ground is >>very important, plus keeping the antenna in the clear if you can. > >If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected >together, how important is it that they actually be grounded? I can't >imagine one or two ground rods doing much good. Is it the electrical >mass that provides the improvement, or its potential with respect to >ground (or both)? >73, >Jack WB3U Everything I've been told and read suggests that the lightning rod is only for lightning protection, and the wires only need be connected together at the feedpoint (to the shield of the feedline). I think it's desireable to leave the insulation on the wire as opposed to bare wire, too, so they look like 1/4 wavelength counterpoise. Maybe someone can share the technical aspects of this. I'm building an inverted L for 160 and have no plans to drive more than one ground stake, and am using insulated wire for the ground system. 73 de Dave Hockaday WB4IUY wb4iuy@nando.net From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 23 Dec 1995 09:26:33 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 37 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bh3ip$65c@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bgt6s$m3c@castle.nando.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bgt6s$m3c@castle.nando.net>, Dave Hockaday writes: >Everything I've been told and read suggests that the lightning rod is >only for lightning protection, and the wires only need be connected >together at the feedpoint (to the shield of the feedline). I think it's >desireable to leave the insulation on the wire as opposed to bare wire, >too, so they look like 1/4 wavelength counterpoise. Maybe someone can >share the technical aspects of this. I'm building an inverted L for 160 >and have no plans to drive more than one ground stake, and am using >insulated wire for the ground system. > >73 de Dave Hockaday Hi Dave, We're hashing that over in the drifty Doty thread. I say drifty because the thread name keeps changing. The popular opinion by people skilled in EM theory is the insulation is a waste of time, and insulated radial measurements and conclusions were totally meaningless. Looking at it with common sense, what difference will a few hundredth's of an inch of insulation make on a wire dozens or hundreds of feet long buried in dirt or laying on the ground. Do we think insulating the wire in an antenna "stops" or really changes anything in the system except at dc?? If we wanted to shield a wire carrying common mode RF from it's surroundings would we just insulate it? Of course not! The only real solution is physically moving the wires a long distance from the lossy media. We would be better off to hang a rabbits foot from the antenna for good luck. The improvement would be more reliable than just insulating the radials. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!news From: Dave Hockaday Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 25 Dec 1995 01:53:32 GMT Organization: News & Observer Public Access Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4bl06s$1cd@castle.nando.net> References: <4af2oq$a1q@nntp3.news.primenet.com> <4aheeb$p7p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4b38ks$8ad@crash.microserve.net> <4bgt6s$m3c@castle.nando.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1509.nando.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Ho-Ho-Ho, heehee...boy did I ever botch this reply up. I didn't communicate my thoughts very well, but here's another attempt... >Everything I've been told and read suggests that the lightning rod ^^^^^^^^^ (oops, that was supposed to be ground rod) >is only for lightning protection, and the wires only need be connected >together at the feedpoint (to the shield of the feedline). I think it's >desireable to leave the insulation on the wire as opposed to bare wire, >too, so they look like 1/4 wavelength counterpoise. Maybe someone can >share the technical aspects of this. I'm building an inverted L for 160 >and have no plans to drive more than one ground stake, and am using >insulated wire for the ground system. >73 de Dave Hockaday WB4IUY >wb4iuy@nando.net 73 es Happy Holidays! From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!news From: Dave Hockaday Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas Date: 25 Dec 1995 02:02:23 GMT Organization: News & Observer Public Access Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4bl0nf$1cd@castle.nando.net> References: <4bgt6s$m3c@castle.nando.net> <4bh3ip$65c@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1509.nando.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) >Hi Dave, >We're hashing that over in the drifty Doty thread. I say drifty because Cool, I'll pay attention and learn something :-). >Looking at it with common sense, what difference will a few hundredth's of >an inch of insulation make on a wire dozens or hundreds of feet long >buried in dirt or laying on the ground. Do we think insulating the wire in >an antenna "stops" or really changes anything in the system except at dc?? WOW!...I've never thought of it that way, but I see your point. Antenna design is a topic I've only recently taken an interest in, but find very interesting. Happy Holidays de Dave Hockaday wb4iuy@nando.net From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:26 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!world!mv!barney.gvi.net!redstone.interpath.net!cphillips From: cphillips@interpath.com (Curt Phillips) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought - Couterpoises and ground Radials ? Date: 22 Dec 1995 23:11:29 GMT Organization: Phillips Technicon Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4bfh9t$gb8_001@news-server.interpath.net> References: <30c94b2c.3749917@137.149.3.1> <4accp8$l72@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cphillips.pdial.interpath.net X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 In article , mike_cash@mlngw.chinalake.navy.mil (Mike, KN6IS) wrote: >Snip; >The trend to rely on computer modeling started in the 60's and continues >to grow. So much so, that in some cases we rely totally on the model and >simulation to give us the truth with minimal or no validation of the >data. Sometimes with devastating results. Again, it is a cost and >schedule issue. [snip] >I vote that we form an International team of verification and validation >antenna computer model "experts". Our goal, to verify and validate ham >antenna computer models. I also vote Tom as our leader. Good luck Tom >and thanks for keeping us honest. You'd better watch out! Quite a few antenna manufacturers might pool their money and pay for a hit man. They don't WANT to be kept "honest", they want to keep quoting mythical gain figures. ========= Opinions expressed are solely those of the author ============ Curt Phillips, KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI) | "I don't want to achieve cphillips@interpath.com |immortality through my work. I Chairman, Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group |want to achieve immortality through ARRL Life; QCWA; Raleigh ARS; NRA |NOT DYING." -- Woody Allen From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:27 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Advice on radials so˙˙˙˙˙ Message-ID: <8B77204.02CF0002C4.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 95 08:36:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 47 WW> Maybe it's my imagination, but it sure seems as though my signal WW> reports go down when the ground freezes. Is this a known phenomenon WW> or am I just experiencing changes in band conditions? I've never WW> noticed this before, but then, I lived most of my life in Texas. WW> The only thing I had to worry about there was the insulation WW> dripping off the wires in the summer. ;) Jack, It's conditions. 80M has been going through some weird conditions for the past few weeks. The Arctic areas of Europe (northern Finland, for example) have been coming through as late as our sunrise. I haven't see that condition in years. Skip has been very long in the evening. I have a schedule with a friend in NH and sometimes can not copy him in the evening--not a peep-- though I have had W4's call me to tell me my friend is calling me. I don't think frozen ground has anything to do with it. I have measured my antenna's self-impedance in all kinds of weather at all seasons and find no differences. At the moment the ground screen is covered with a foot of snow, including the base of the vertical and no effects on the self-impedance are seen. 80M and 160M RF penetration into the ground is measured in feet, so it would take some great change in the ground conductivity and permitivity to see the effect. As to the snow around the base of the vertical, so long as it is freshly fallen it is a near perfect insulator. But with the passage of some time that will change; it will pick up carbon dioxide, for instance, and become slightly acidic. Then I'll have to go out there and clear it away. ;-) BTW, if you're new to this part of the East Coast, between now and end of January we get openings long path at sunset to the Far East on 80M. I have worked Thailand, and Indonesia that way--being unable to do it in the morning. Lots of JA's come thru. The openings usually last from 5 to 20 minutes and sometimes the signals get up to s9! If you're not familiar--the SSB dx window is 3785 to 3800 kHz. 73, --k2bt * RM 1.3 02583 * Whom gods would destroy, they first teach Win95. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:28 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nwlink.com!port8 From: chester@nwlink.com (Peter Ward) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: am radio antennas Date: 24 Dec 1995 22:16:48 GMT Organization: Northwest Link Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4bk95p$al4_001@annex3.nwlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: port8.annex3.nwlink.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 Why do manufacturers (surprisingly of high cost entertainment centers) continue to make receivers that do SO poorly with AM? It seems the older the radio, the better the AM sound, sensitivity and interference rejection. Also, the magnetic bar antenna has got to go!!!!! Put a rod on the things for God sakes! Whose idea was that???? From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:29 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!intac!usenet From: Mark Herson Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: antenna question Date: 26 Dec 1995 14:48:17 GMT Organization: INTAC Access Corporation - An Internet Service Provider Lines: 39 Message-ID: <4bp1vh$nig@uucp.intac.com> References: <779978903-951225223200@tclbbs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hudson.intac.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) To: steve.schack@tclbbs.com steve.schack@tclbbs.com (Steve Schack) wrote: >At a cabin in Grand Marais MN I have one of those combo CD, tape and >AM-FM radios with a single element extension antenna. > >The only FM station I can get with any degree of relaibility is from >Ironwood Michigan 90 miles SSE across Lake Superior. Thunder Bay (60 >miles) uh-uh, nothing. Duluth, nope. I fastened an 8"x4" piece of 1/2" >hardware cloth to the antenna to "help". Not much difference. AM sounds >like a car radio back in the 50's fade in, fade out. > >Is there any way I can put up a bow-tie type FM antenna, on coax, maybe >with an amplifier and some how hook up to some internal connection? Like >unsolder the connection for the extension antenna and hook up an >external antenna? Any problems or limitations with this idea? I'm >looking for ideas, I'd like something other than a single station. >Thanks for any help. You could probably do all that but it sounds like a lot of work. BTW, you don't want a bow-tie antenna but rather a Yagi type of antenna with a lot of elements to give you gain. You also want to use low-loss coax for a feedline from the antenna to the radio. One other thing you can try without going outside is to get a different radio - one made for broadcast dx. The GE SupeRadio III will cost you $50 I'm told and has gotten some good comments from the swl crowd. There's not too much you can do about the am fading except to get a bigger antenna, either a long wire or a loop. However, the distortion on deep fades can be overcome only by getting a radio with a synchronous am detector. Sony, Grundig and others make reasonably priced radios with that feature built in. Of course, if you want to spend more $$, then you can graduate to the Drake SW-8 category or even the R-8a, hi! -- 73, Mark, N2MH http://www.intac.com/~mherson/ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nwnews.wa.com!nwfocus.wa.com!ender.techcenter.paccar.com!news From: kg7hq@paccar.com (Michael A. Sterba) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: antenna question Date: 26 Dec 1995 13:53:06 GMT Organization: OES Skagit County WA. Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bouo2$l5f@ender.techcenter.paccar.com> References: <779978903-951225223200@tclbbs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kg7hq.paccar.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.4 Hello Steve, In article <779978903-951225223200@tclbbs.com>, steve.schack@tclbbs.com says... >Is there any way I can put up a bow-tie type FM antenna, on coax, maybe >with an amplifier and some how hook up to some internal connection? Like >unsolder the connection for the extension antenna and hook up an >external antenna? Any problems or limitations with this idea? I'm >looking for ideas, I'd like something other than a single station. >Thanks for any help. When putting up your FM aentenna you might want to looking into a TV antenna o n a rotor and try in at various heights above ground. You might find that you'll b e able to recieve the signals better at 10', catching a ground wave, than at 100'. I had the same problem in when I lived in WI. -- "Handcrafted From The Finest ASCII" 73's de KG7HQ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!lily.redrose.net!john From: Curt Sanders Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: ANTTRON Antennas Date: 24 Dec 1995 05:44:53 GMT Organization: a Digital Internet AlphaServer Site Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4bipcl$p4b@lily.redrose.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: l15.redrose.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna Anttron antennas, Youngstown, OH. I need a URL for them! I need to replace a w hip asap! Thanks in advance. ******************************************************** * "There is nothing constant but change." ‹ Heraclitus * * --- * * N3TLJ@WA3KXG.FN10RE.PA.USA.NA (Amateur Radio) * * Reunion Users Group (genealogy) * Hershey Apple Core * ******************************************************** From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!lily.redrose.net!john From: Curt Sanders Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Anttron Antennas Date: 27 Dec 1995 04:25:56 GMT Organization: a Digital Internet AlphaServer Site Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4bqhsk$tu8@lily.redrose.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: l32.redrose.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna#4bmkv2$6d5@prometheus.localnet.com Anybody have an address of Anttron Antennas of Youngstown, OH? Looking to repl ace an antenna element. ******************************************************** * "There is nothing constant but change." ‹ Heraclitus * * --- * * N3TLJ@WA3KXG.FN10RE.PA.USA.NA (Amateur Radio) * * Reunion Users Group (genealogy) * Hershey Apple Core * ******************************************************** From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:33 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!newshost.convex.com!news.onramp.net!dal32.onramp.net!user From: cmassey@onramp.net (cleve e massey) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: ARTIFICIAL GROUND Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 22:49:05 -0600 Organization: On-Ramp; Individual Internet Connections; Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA Lines: 15 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: dal32.onramp.net OK...since the ground is essentially half the antenna system, thought this the best place to post a question... Can't figure out a way to get any kind of real earth ground conneced to the HF rig...are the artificial grounds any good... Looked at the MFJ and then read that the new Ten-Tec kit folks have a kit version...that would probably be more fun as I would get to build something... Any and all comments would be appreciated... pse e-mail direct... txn...cleve wd5bor From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:34 1995 From: n0nas@hamlink.mn.org (Doug Reed) Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!rosevax!hamlink!fredmail Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Backpackable 2m homebrew? Message-ID: <819971697.AA04719@hamlink.mn.org> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 07:25:11 -0100 X-FTN-To: Baack@maine.maine.edu Lines: 60 BA>From: BA>Hello all, I am looking for a "simple" and I stress simple BA>design for a quick and dirty 2 meter yagi. 2-5 elements BA>nothing really fancy just enough to get a decent signal BA>out using a handheld. ................. BA>Thanks, J N1RWY I really don't have any specific design info for you but I highly recommend the "Arrow" antenna design published in 73 Magazine about 3 years ago. It was a simple 4 element beam built on a 1" aluminum boom and used aluminum arrow (archery) shafts as elements bolted thru the boom with 8-32 screws. The whole antenna came apart and stored in the boom. With a couple rubber crutch tips on the end of the boom it could be used for a walking stick. I believe Antennas West is selling the same antenna design, with a couple years of small improvements. If you don't have a good assortment of tools, just buy the antenna; you'll save more in time than you'd otherwise save by buying materials. If you are going to build the antenna, the final design depends on what materials you are using. If you don't use the same diameter boom, elements and mounting, the published dimensions will be wrong. I built an antenna based on the "Arrow" design. But I had 3/4" square tubing and 5/16" elements rather than 1" tubing and 1/4" elements. I used one of the computer antenna design programs to tweak the element lengths and spacing to match my materials and built the antenna. The final antenna doesn't store as neatly as the original design but I already had the materials. I've used it during the VHF contests and verified is has good gain and a very nice null off the back of the beam. But again, the exact design depends on YOUR materials and how you mount them. Another quick option I've seen was just adding a couple elements on a boom to a J-pole antenna. Build the J-Pole out of the usual 1/2" or 3/4" pipe. Then add a stop about 1/4 wavelength (19") down from the top. Use a wood dowel or plastic pipe as a boom that slips over the J-pole vertical and mount a director and reflector to the boom on either side of the J-pole driven element. Use the element diameter, length and spacing from an ARRL Handbook design for a short 2 meter beam. Either pin the boom and turn the antenna or turn the boom on the collar to change antenna direction. I don't know how well this will work but it really qualifies as quick and dirty! Another similar option is to use the wood dowel or broom handle to mount several lengths of #12 or #10 solid house wire as elements and make your beam that way. Make the driven element a folded dipole with a balun or rig up a gamma match for the coax. If you want some really stiff wire, look for heavy gauge galvanized steel fence wire at the local hardware store. Element length and spacing will have to be estimated using an existing design and adjusting for element diameter and boom mounting. You can find directions for the math in the Handbooks or try using one of the computer programs. Maybe someone else on the net can give you a detailed design. Good Luck. 73's. Doug Reed, N0NAS email: n0nas@hamlink.mn.org St Paul, MN * SLMR 2.1a * Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch! From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:35 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!news.Stanford.EDU!newshub.internex.net!news.internex.net!usenet From: recurry@insighttec.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Bandpass/notch cavity construction techniques/ideas Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 20:01:43 GMT Organization: InterNex Information Services 1-800-595-3333 Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4bkbf9$4h@voyager.Internex.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: yankee.insighttec.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I've been making 70cm band bandpass/notch cavities out of 2 inch copper pipe with some success. I'd like to make larger diameter cavities not only for 70cm but also for 2m. I've thought about galvanized sheet metal but am aware of the poor conductivity of the material. Anyone had any luck with other construction practices? What about soldering plated PCB board into square cavities? Ron Curry KE6WED recurry@insighttec.com recurry@inside.intel.com From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bga.com!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!pacifier!pacifier.com!rvr From: rvr@pacifier.com (Ronald Ries) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Best Instrument for Matching Line to Load Date: 26 Dec 1995 16:07:29 GMT Organization: Pacifier, public access Internet site. 360-693-0325 Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4bp6k1$ia1@news.pacifier.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pacifier.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] I would like to start a thread about instrumentation used to match the antenna to the transmitter. I have long enjoyed the trying of different antennas on the various bands and have tried a variety of instrumentation to achieve a match. How about it? What methods/tools do you swear by in this aspect of the hobby? Ron -- Heck, writing is easy. Just sit down and open a vein... From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Best Instrument for Matching Line to Load Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 17:42:01 GMT Lines: 18 Message-ID: <820043384.12471@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <4bp6k1$ia1@news.pacifier.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 rvr@pacifier.com (Ronald Ries) wrote: >I would like to start a thread about instrumentation used to match >the antenna to the transmitter. I have long enjoyed the trying of >different antennas on the various bands and have tried a variety of >instrumentation to achieve a match. Do you mean impedance matching networks, or impedance measurement equipment? >How about it? What methods/tools do you swear by in this aspect >of the hobby? There are no methods that I swear by, but many that I swear at. :) 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:38 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!purdue!yuma!lamar.ColoState.EDU!not-for-mail From: galen@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Watts) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: book by Sevick wanted Date: 23 Dec 1995 08:00:26 -0700 Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4bh5ia$2o68@lamar.ColoState.EDU> References: <951213142307@re3mjo> NNTP-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Mike O'Rourke (morourke@newsserver.gmr.com) wrote: : I'm looking for a copy of Jerry Sevicks book : "Transmission Line Transformers" : The book is currently out of print and unavailable : from the ARRL. : Does anyone have a copy that I can buy? : 810-986-0223 work : 810-986-2033 home Try Amidon Associates, 310-763-5770. They list it on their price list. (Box 956, Torrance, CA 90508) Out of print? Are they working on a new edition or just blowing it off? Galen, KF0YJ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:39 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!news From: barnaby@world.std.com (Richard Barnaby) Subject: Re: book by Sevick wanted Message-ID: Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Nntp-Posting-Host: world.std.com Organization: Business Support Services X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.113 References: <951213142307@re3mjo> <4bh5ia$2o68@lamar.ColoState.EDU> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:16:49 GMT Lines: 38 Amidon Associates does indeed have the book, At least they had one 2 months ago when I got mine :-) but they have moved. Their new address is: Amidon Associates P.O. Box 25867 Santa Ana, CA 92799 Tel 714-850-4660 Fax 714-850-1163 Order "Transmission Line Transformers" 2nd Edition Cost $20.00 galen@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Watts) wrote: >Mike O'Rourke (morourke@newsserver.gmr.com) wrote: >: I'm looking for a copy of Jerry Sevicks book >: "Transmission Line Transformers" >: The book is currently out of print and unavailable >: from the ARRL. >: Does anyone have a copy that I can buy? >: 810-986-0223 work >: 810-986-2033 home > >Try Amidon Associates, 310-763-5770. They list it on their price list. >(Box 956, Torrance, CA 90508) > >Out of print? Are they working on a new edition or just blowing it off? > >Galen, KF0YJ ********************************************************* * Richard Barnaby Business Support Services * * 3230 E. Flamingo Rd #505 * * Las Vegas, NV 89121 * * 800-864-5591 pager AA1IB Amateur Radio * ********************************************************* From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!sunrise.gv.ssi1.com!oronet!news From: rst-engr@oro.net (Jim Weir) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Building a Dipole Antenna Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 19:04:19 GMT Organization: RST Engineering Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4bmsjj$r4f@hg.oro.net> References: <4b9r0e$eve@sonic.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 jmagers@sonic.net (Justin Magers) wrote: >Greetings, >I wish to improve my FM signal by building a dipole antenna. [snip in consideration of bandwidth] Do you just want to build the dipole, do you want to build it as cheap as possible, or do you want to know how to make a dipole out of copper pipe? Each of these has a different answer, although I must admit I've never heard of building a copper-pipe dipole in my forty years in the business. Exactly what do you want to achieve? Please no email; answer in the newsgroup. Jim Jim Weir VP Engineering | "We seem to be standing on RST Engineering | the foreskin of technology." Grass Valley CA 95945 | (Gen. Chuck Yeager) voice/fax 916/272-1432 | rst-engr@oro.net AR Adv WB6BHI CFI A&G/Comml Inst A&G/A&P/C-182A N73CQ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet From: kr4tg@mindspring.com (mike del pozzo) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: c_craft 40-2 CD info Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 08:06:21 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4blbib$1dge@firehose.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kr4tg.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 can anyone please supply me with either the May '87 CQ , or the Jul '83 QST article(s) on the Cushcraft 40-2 CD? I am considering a purchase of this yagi and would like to know the original reviews on it. Would like to put it just below a 4 element Quad if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated and all opinions of the beam will be read. Tnx in advance.......es........73 de KR4TG , Mike From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work? Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 03:20:49 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <819473295.6719@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <0099AC68.F3102AB9@netins.net> <4ar6pn$f2n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 sparkzz@aol.com (Sparkzz) wrote: >You might want to make sure all your telephoning is over for the day >before you fire up the rig B-) No one but Sparkzz mentioned this, but IMO it's the biggest problem with an attic antenna. Aside from the fact that attic wiring will usurp some of your signal, it will also conduct it all over the house. For some reason, the effects seem to be at their worst on 80M, at least in my experience. Be prepared for lots of RFI if you do this. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jchol@aol.com (JCHol) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work? Date: 24 Dec 1995 15:17:42 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 7 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bkch6$569@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bbo28$q3b@castle.nando.net> Reply-To: jchol@aol.com (JCHol) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I agree that the resonant dipole is the way to go. My first contact on 15 meters with my attic dipole was Kwajelein! I was calling CQ and he answered me. Try it and see. You can have it going in less than two hours. John, WA5TWL From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!rkarlqu From: rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article once ag˙˙˙˙˙ Date: 25 Dec 1995 17:49:53 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Lines: 37 Message-ID: <4bmo81$ots@hpscit.sc.hp.com> References: <8B772FB.02CF0002C8.uuout@cencore.com> <4bhole$crr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com In article <4bhole$crr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, W8JI Tom wrote: > >In my view, the problem stems from a lack of peer review in our hobby. Our >teachers are not "board certified". That means everything we read is >basically just an opinion rather than an accepted fact. Publishers of even >the most reputable data (like the ARRL) are too short staffed and lack the >diverse background required to review articles for technical accuracy, and >some don't check at all. > >Actually I view it more like publications have a list of accepted people >to deal with. The switch is either on or off. The unfortunate thing is >every one of us has holes in our knowlege. That includes the people with >their hands on the switch and the authors they select. A big part of how >that switch is flipped is determined by how nice the guy is, and how well >he writes. Not by what the author really said! Even if you have peer review, you can run into problems. Many readers of this newsgroup are probably familiar with "RF Design" magazine. Ever year they have a design contest. The first year the winning entry was a clever network analyzer of sorts using four diode detector probes at 1/8 wavelength spacing (a fixed slotted line). I pointed out to the editor that the exact same system was described in the August 1947 Proceedings of the IRE, and so it should be disqualified on the grounds of not being original. His reply was that his panel of experts had not read the 1947 paper, hence it didn't count as prior art. I imagine the contestant was a very nice fellow who probably didn't read the paper either and independently reinvented the thing. I'll assume he wasn't cheating. I have had conversations with editors of other trade journals where I pointed out that such and such an article was complete nonsense. They said something to the effect that, oh yes, other people had told them the same thing about the article. But they didn't seem very upset about it. Rick Karlquist N6RK rkarlqu@scd.hp.com From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:46 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty QST Article Message-ID: <8B772FB.02CF0002C9.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 95 12:43:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: <00001fea+00001988@msn.com> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 16 IG> Do take a look at Sevick's article: 'Short Ground-Radial Systems for IG> Short Verticals' (QST, April 1978). As well as dealing with short IG> verticals, he also considers resonant quarter-wave verticals, and IG> systematically covers the effects of the following on radiation IG> efficiency: Ian, Now that takes me back. That article by Sevick got me seriously working with 80M verticals (Sevick's work was all at 20M). Excellent work--I still have a copy of that article. Unfortunately (or fortunately!) Jerry, W2FMI, got interested in baluns. ;-) * RM 1.3 02583 * Observation, not old age, brings wisdom. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:46 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Earth capacitance Date: 23 Dec 1995 18:58:01 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 2 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bhjfp$m00@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Thanks Rick 73, Bill From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!hal.COM!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!io.org!van-bc!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!newsstand.tc.umn.edu!usenet From: "tom medin" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: feeding rotatable antenna with ladder line Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 05:20:27 CST Organization: University of Minnesota Lines: 15 Message-ID: <34171.tmedin@che2.che.umn.edu> Reply-To: NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-12-a-10.gw.umn.edu X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_18A X-POPMail-Charset: English i'm having difficulty keeping my ladder line away from the metal (tower or mast) when i rotate the antenna. do you knowledgeable folks know if i can splice in a short section of two pieces of coax at the point of concern? i would connect the center conductors to their respective lader-line wires, and short the two shield conductors (ground them also?). this would cause an impedance bump, but i suspect there are quite a few already (window, no-window, window, etc.). if this would work for ladder-line, would it also work for open line (bumpless line). i'm getting tired of the unsightly contraption that i have up on the tower for keeping the line away from the metal (it doesn't work well anyway). t medin n0ufm From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:49 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Steve Beyers <103107.3704@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: 24 Dec 1995 20:13:18 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4bkc8u$r88$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> I've got a 41-foot vertical I use on 40, 30, and 20 meters. It's a homebrew welded steel tower, mounted on the ground, with 48 buried radials, each about 50 ft. long. I feed it with 300 ohm window line, about 90 ft. long, with no matching at the base. The rig has the standard 50 ohm output. In the shack, to match the rig to the line, I use a simple homebrew link coupler with a variable coupling (swinging?) link. Iuse twin thermocouple ammeters to measure line currents. I balance the currents by moving the tap positions on the output coil. According to the Transmission Line program, losses are low even though the SWR is high, because of the low loss of the 300 ohm line. It works great, but I wonder if I'm missing something. I've never seen balanced line feeding a vertical in any of the books. Any comments? -- Steve Beyers W9HJW From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:51 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: 25 Dec 1995 15:55:58 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 28 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bn34u$n3f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bkc8u$r88$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bkc8u$r88$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com>, Steve Beyers <103107.3704@CompuServe.COM> writes: >It works great, but I wonder if I'm missing >something. I've never seen balanced line >feeding a vertical in any of the books. >Any comments? Hi Steve, I suspect the feedline current is balanced only at the shack end, and not at the feedpoint. It would be better if you could install some type of choke balun at antenna, but I don't know how you would do that with twinlead. Heathkit used to sell a balun that used air insulated parallel wire coils that looked like miniductor, one of those coils would likely work. The problem with that feed method is the ground system, rig, or wiring in the shack becomes part of the antennas ground, and at the antenna the current likely "unbalances" again to some extent. But like so many things in antennas, the system doesn't need to be perfect to work well. So it may not matter, hi. If it works and there are no ill effects, enjoy the novel feed arrangement. 73 and Merry Xmas, Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:52 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 17:53:34 GMT Lines: 21 Message-ID: <820044072.12471@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <4bkc8u$r88$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> <4bn34u$n3f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: Steve Beyers <103107.3704@CompuServe.COM> writes: > >>It works great, but I wonder if I'm missing >>something. I've never seen balanced line >>feeding a vertical in any of the books. >>Any comments? > >Hi Steve, >I suspect the feedline current is balanced only at the shack end, >and not at the feedpoint. Tom, you really got me with this one. I went back and read it several times, but I couldn't figure out any interpretation other than the obvious. So, I'll bite. How can the current balance at one end of the feedline be different than at the other? Won't Kirchoff disapprove? :~) 73 & Happy New Year, Jack WB3U From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:53 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!nntp.et.byu.edu!news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Steve Beyers <103107.3704@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: 27 Dec 1995 05:05:50 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4bqk7e$rcg$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> References: <4bn34u$n3f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Tom - You're right. I checked at the feedpoint, and the currents are not balanced. Charlie W6JJZ said the same thing. You're both right. I put a homebrew 1:1 balun at the antenna base today, but haven't checked the currents yet. I don't know why I didn't think of checking currents at the base. Old age, I guess. You and Charlie gave me a whole new way of looking at it. Thanks. Steve -- Steve Beyers W9HJW From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:54 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!io.org!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: 27 Dec 1995 13:17:41 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 54 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bs2k5$9a4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bqk7e$rcg$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bqk7e$rcg$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com>, Steve Beyers <103107.3704@CompuServe.COM> writes: >Tom - > >You're right. I checked at the feedpoint, and the >currents are not balanced. Charlie W6JJZ said the >same thing. You're both right. I put a homebrew 1:1 >balun at the antenna base today, but haven't checked >the currents yet. I don't know why I didn't think >of checking currents at the base. Old age, I guess. >You and Charlie gave me a whole new way of looking >at it. Thanks. > Steve Hi Steve, Charlie and Jack, Not old age Steve, you just were looking at one of the most mis-understood basics! I can find dozens of examples where very sharp people overlook or are confused by this. That's why more than one person should look at any system for errors, and if there is a conflict it should be resolved by proving the system out. Not by gut feelings, computer models, or popular opinion. Jack brought up a good question. We almost touched on this in the "Is a balun necessary thread" several months ago. Because current is balanced at one end of the feedline, it doesn't mean it is balanced at the other end or anywhere in between the ends. It's sure easy to buy into the conclusion that balance at one point means balance everywhere else, but it just ain't so. Kirchoff's law absolutely applies to antennas, but we have to be careful we are talking about any single point in the system and we are considering all the current paths. If the feeder is improperly connected at either end, all bets are off. The feeder can become part of the radiating system, and so can the transmitter and it's associated wiring! Such errors make the system unpredictable and hard to analyze. The system can have perfectly balanced and out of phase feedline currents at any one point, and inches away have a major problem with parallel currents! The example of the balanced line feeder with an unbalance load is a good one. Another is the matching stub of a J pole or a Zepp's feeder. Even a vertical with a less than perfect ground fed with coax has this problem, and the less perfect the ground the bigger the problem! Even if current is perfectly balanced at one point, somewhere down the line it can be way out of whack. The only way to guarantee proper system operation is to treat every part of the line correctly. Looking at one point can cause incorrect conclusions to be reached, like say...ahhhh.... insulated radials work better by reducing earth losses. Or the matching stub of a Jpole doesn't radiate! ;-) 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:56 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com!tomb From: tomb@lsid.hp.com (Tom Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: 27 Dec 1995 21:15:59 GMT Organization: Hewlett Packard Corvallis Site Lines: 42 Message-ID: <4bsd2f$ed8@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> References: <4bs2k5$9a4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsnb.lsid.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4] W8JI Tom (w8jitom@aol.com) wrote: : Jack brought up a good question. We almost touched on this in the "Is a : balun necessary thread" several months ago. : Because current is balanced at one end of the feedline, it doesn't mean it : is balanced at the other end or anywhere in between the ends. It's sure etc. This is (hopefully) just another way to think about the same point Tom is making here: The (antenna) current on an antenna element is not the same everywhere... for example, the current in a half-wave dipole is high at the center and very low at the ends. Similarly, the antenna current on a transmission line is not everywhere the same; it varies with distance along the line. The line is simply acting as an antenna element, and the current distribution on it depends on its shape and its placement with respect to other conductors and dielectrics, and on the currents in those other conductors. : Looking at one : point can cause incorrect conclusions to be reached, like say...ahhhh.... : insulated radials work better by reducing earth losses. Or the matching : stub of a Jpole doesn't radiate! Yes, Tom, the J-Pole is an interesting case. Realizing that there are antenna currents on the matching stub can make you think about just how you are going to mount the thing: how do you isolate it from a metallic mast, to keep the whole darned mast from becoming a radiator (with a very poorly controlled pattern)? What are you going to do to isolate the feedline from the stub? And a real zinger, just how does the gain of a J-pole compare with, say, a half-wave fed against four quarter-wave radials? ... If I can trust my simulations, the answers are kind of interesting. -- Cheers, Tom tomb@lsid.hp.com From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!guardian.up.edu!gateway.sequent.com!news.orst.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.corpcomm.net!newstand.syr.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feedpoint impedance of ya Message-ID: <8B754E5.02CF000295.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 20:53:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: <4b2bt4$9fq@maureen.teleport.com> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 17 SW> How does the feedpoint impedance of a yagi vary with the number of SW> elements? For example, in a yagi designed for 3m reception (only), SW> of 3-6 total elements, is the impedance close enough to the 72-ohm SW> dipole impedance to just hook on a 75-ohm coax and run it to the SW> receiver? The feedpoint of a Yagi will be quite a bit lower than the 73 ohms of a lone half wave element due to the coupling presented by the reflector and directors. The typical resonant feedpoint impedance of a 3 el Yagi, for example, will be around 25 ohms. This is why various types of matches are used on Yagis to transform their impedance up to 50 ohm coax. Added directors will only drive that feedpoint impedance a little lower. --k2bt * RM 1.3 02583 * The easiest way to refold a road map is differently. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: krin135@aol.com (Krin135) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Field day antenna Date: 27 Dec 1995 08:02:20 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 31 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4brg4s$35n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4a00gv$dcg@news.service.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi: I've had a chance to go back and dig stuff out again. It turns out that it was a "Porta Bull" antenna by ODO- not an "Incredi Bull" as I stated in my first message. I thought that I put this out in another message, but can not find the second msg in my files. Forgive the wasted bandwidth if you already have this info. In article <4a00gv$dcg@news.service.uci.edu>, dbwillia@uci.edu (Brian Williams) writes: > >Is this antenna available in any ham stores? Possibly- but contact point is ODO Antennas, 1839 Watercrest Houston, TX 77008 >Does is use radials? Yes, length over all is 33" assembled with three radiators, 21 3/8 rigged for storage. >What's the cost? I paid about $40 at the Twin City Ham fest. >Does it appear to be built ruggedly? yes. Incidently, I got my MFJ 5/8 wave 2mtr up yesterday, and now can hit WB5SOT's repeater about 30 miles away on 3 watts, through the trees. 73 de KC5EVN From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!news.uoregon.edu!news.corpcomm.net!newspeak.ultratech.net!worldlinx.com!onlink3.onlink.net!usenet From: rfarr@onlink.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: FM antennae Date: 24 Dec 1995 04:26:01 GMT Organization: Ontario Northland--ONLink Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4bikop$93b@onlink3.onlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nlkd1_onlink14.onlink.net X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) What is the best type of outdoor antennae to put up for FM reception. Those li ttle Tee antennae that are included with some stereos just are not adequate for decent reception in this part of the country . What length would be best for FM reception? ******************************************************************* The doors of Heaven and Hell are adjacent and identical. -Nikos Katantzakis, "The Last Temptation of Christ" ******************************************************************** From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cc.iu.net!news From: wnewkirk@iu.net (Bill Newkirk) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: FM antennae Date: 25 Dec 1995 16:09:59 GMT Organization: Space Coast Amateur Technical Group Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4bmicn$5pc@cc.iu.net> References: <4bikop$93b@onlink3.onlink.net> Reply-To: wnewkirk@iu.net (Bill Newkirk) NNTP-Posting-Host: netport-2.iu.net X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <4bikop$93b@onlink3.onlink.net>, rfarr@onlink.net writes: >What is the best type of outdoor antennae to put up for FM reception. Those l ittle Tee antennae that are included with some >stereos just are not adequate for decent reception in this part of the countr y. What length would be best for FM reception? something outdoors above the house is a start. don't scrimp on the feedline...no sense in putting up a good antenna array and then losing it all in the feedline. consider something like RG-6. Bill Newkirk WB9IVR The Space Coast Amateur Technical Group Melbourne, FL duty now for the future of amateur radio Lombardi's 1st Law of Business: Companies succeed in spite of their best effort. If they succeed at all. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:01 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub6!daynews!avenger!news From: Bill Starkgraf Subject: Re: FM antennae X-Nntp-Posting-Host: 141.206.22.27 Message-ID: Sender: news@avenger.daytonoh.attgis.com (News administrative Login) Reply-To: wps@ElSegundoCA.attgis.com (WPS) Organization: ATT Global Information Solutions X-Newsreader: DiscussIT 2.5.1.3 for MS Windows [AT&T Software Products Division] References: <4bmicn$5pc@cc.iu.net> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 19:55:47 GMT Lines: 13 Those little Tee (dipole] do not work well inside. The metal in the walls (stucco homes the mesh) tends to cancel out the radio signals. I agree with Bill WB9IVR, look for something outside. Bill Bill Starkgraf KD6UQB AT&T Global Information Solutions From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:01 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!hearye.mlb.semi.harris.com!jabba.ess.harris.com!news.ess.harris.com!usenet From: kennedy@aol.com (kennedy) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: FM Stereo stacked yagi question Date: 22 Dec 1995 14:42:38 GMT Organization: Your Organization Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4beg4u$41j@su102w.ess.harris.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mtde08.mtp.semi.harris.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6 I'm vertically stacking two FM stereo yagi's. Both have 300ohm connections at antenna. Other than the spacing between the two, do I need somekind of matching balun or certain wavelength of cable between the two. The antennas are identical. What do I use to combine the two?? (splitter/combiner) Please post.Thanks From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:02 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Re: FM Stereo stacked yagi question Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <4beg4u$41j@su102w.ess.harris.com> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 19:52:10 GMT Lines: 33 Sender: slwork@netcom10.netcom.com kennedy (kennedy@aol.com) wrote: : I'm vertically stacking two FM stereo yagi's. Both have 300ohm : connections at antenna. Other than the spacing between the two, : do I need somekind of matching balun or certain wavelength of : cable between the two. The antennas are identical. What do I : use to combine the two?? (splitter/combiner) Please post.Thanks Why not just add another director or two in front? This will get you 3db more gain in less space and without the hassle. You really need to space them a wavelength apart to gain the benefits of the stacking (a bare minimum of 5/8 wavelength). A wavelength is, of course, about 10 feet. The additional directors will only add 2-3 feet to the length. However, if you are dealing (which I sort of think you are) with a commerical "yagi" from Radio Shack or Winegard, these aren't really yagi antennas. They have several (3 on the RS, 5 on the Winegard) drive elements, and I've been told they are really log-periodic. I honestly don't know what the effect of additional directors would be here. If someone know, please post it. Especially if you are dealing with multipath you probably want an array as you would have to have all the antennas in the array not in "nulls". Kind of hard to do as nulls are a fraction of a wavelength apart. In fact, I had some curious results with one of the above antennas. Seems like the front directors were in a "null" while the back of the antenna was in a strong signal area. Unfolding the directors actually worsened the reception, quite noticeably. Even getting all of a single antenna in a strong signal area is a challenge. If anyone has ideas how an antenna can be built in a small space (i.e. only 3 feet or less in any dimension) with a gain of at least 6db, I would be quite interested. I don't care about response across the entire FM band, just a single station. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:04 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork From: slwork@netcom.com (Steve Work) Subject: Re: FM Stereo stacked yagi question Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <4beg4u$41j@su102w.ess.harris.com> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 21:50:25 GMT Lines: 39 Sender: slwork@netcom2.netcom.com kennedy (kennedy@aol.com) wrote: : I'm vertically stacking two FM stereo yagi's. Both have 300ohm : connections at antenna. Other than the spacing between the two, : do I need somekind of matching balun or certain wavelength of : cable between the two. The antennas are identical. What do I : use to combine the two?? (splitter/combiner) Please post.Thanks The way you would want to do this is to build a stub-matching network. A practical way to do this would be to connect the two antennas in parallel. Run two pieces of 300-ohm twinlead from, one to each antenna, and tie them together. Pay attention to the phase! If they are phased wrong the two antennas will cancel out. (In fact, phasing the antennas backwards should give you zero signal, the less signal you get here the better your array is set up). This point where they come together has an impedance of 150 ohms. The 150 ohm feedpoint needs to be transformed to 75 ohms to go to a coax to your receiver. I know that you can cut about 3 pieces of twinlead and build a matching network. Perhaps by using one piece of TV wire to run between the antenna connection and the coax, and a shorted stub attached to each end of the network. However I don't quite know how to design this. I would much be interested in a computer program where you feed in the impedance of each end, line impedance, and have it spit out a design of a matching network. Does anyone know of one? All you need is twinlead and know-how to do this. One important thing to remember is that the wavelength in the twinlead is about 82% percent of that in free space. Making an array of four antennas is easy. You run equal length pieces to each antenna. Tie the ends into two pairs of two connections in parallel. Then get two quarter-wave pieces to tie the paired connections together. The place where the quarter-wave transformers meets will have a 300-ohm impedance which you can convert to 75 with a common balun. The quarter-wave transformer has an impedance of 2X the line on one end and 1/2X the line on the other. Again, if you don't phase things right, you are wasting all your effort. Experiment around and try to null out the signal by phasing the connections backwards. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.mind.net!news.onramp.net!ntpcug.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: tom.blackwell@ntpcug.org Message-ID: <19951224.n2b1@ntpcug.org> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 02:03:00 -0600 Subject: Re: FM Stereo stacked yagi question References: <4beg4u$41j@su102w.ess.harris.com> Organization: North Texas PC User's Group X-Newsreader: TPCB 0.8 21100010 Lines: 27 ========================================================================== KE> I'm vertically stacking two FM stereo yagi's. Both have 300ohm KE> connections at antenna. Other than the spacing between the two, KE> do I need somekind of matching balun or certain wavelength of KE> cable between the two. The antennas are identical. What do I KE> use to combine the two?? (splitter/combiner) Please post.Thanks Wholesale electronic parts distributors that carry splitters usually carry combiners, also. If I were you, and involved in a serious project like that, I would invest in an LD phone call to the customer service desk of the antenna manufacturer. Getting this right means you will have the peace of mind that you have maximized your performance. I would also use decent coax; I use Belden 8281, which requires special connectors. Sounds like you have a very serious project going. What tuner are you using? Does it give you a scope output to observe the RF? Where are you located? What are you trying to receive? Regards, TOM BLACKWELL, N5GAR, PO Box 25403, Dallas, Texas 75225 tom.blackwell@ntpcug.org SGL-North Texas The NTPCUG's TI PRO BBS lives at (214) 361-5275 --- ţ SLMR 2.1a ţ ... ((((( This message in STEREO where available ))))) From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!skypoint.com!usenet From: edvanc29@skypoint.com (Dutch) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7??? Date: 26 Dec 1995 16:05:54 GMT Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4bp6h2$j91@stratus.skypoint.net> References: <4b6vqh$eq5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial050.skypoint.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7 In article <4b6vqh$eq5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, gbohner@aol.com says... > >Any comments on the above verticals? >The Gap is $100 cheaper and also covers 80M, so why is $100 cheaper. I >have had an R7 which worked good until it got hit by lightening. How is >the quality of the Gap Titan vs the Cushcraft? Anybody ever use the >Titan? Is the VSWR good? How does it get out on all bands including 80? Recommend you read "Whither vertical antenna design" in the December issue of Worldradio. If you have limited space or are not very interested in antenna theory and/or practice, then these aerials make some sense. Choose the one without traps but keep in mind that Gap has made many compromises too in cramming the Titan full of coaxial stubs. Owned Gaps and R5s and found them considerably down from good old fashion ground or roof mounted verticals with adequate radials. The best vertical in my experience is the Butternut series, straight vertical dipoles, or half squares. It's amazing where you can put them. Good luck and 73, de Ed, AA0HI. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:07 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7??? Date: 26 Dec 1995 22:02:58 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 23 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bqd12$kom@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bp6h2$j91@stratus.skypoint.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bp6h2$j91@stratus.skypoint.net>, edvanc29@skypoint.com (Dutch) writes: >Owned Gaps and R5s and found them considerably down from good old >fashion ground or roof mounted verticals with adequate radials. The >best vertical in my experience is the Butternut series, straight >vertical dipoles, or half squares. It's amazing where you can put >them. Good luck and 73, de Ed, AA0HI. > > I can second most of that. ANY ground mounted vertical or ground plane with a good ground system will murder the radial-less antennas. I've had a GAP, R7, Butternut, and the MFJ ground mounted vertical (it requires radials) here. With even a modest ground the Butternut and the MFJ wipe out the radial-less systems. The GAP was 2 S units down from the Butternut most of the time. Of course a dipole at 85 feet kills 'em all on 40 (even for long DX), but the MFJ 35 foot tall top loaded vertical with 80-100 radials ties a dipole at 130 feet into Europe on 80! Still surprised by that! 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:09 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7??? Date: 26 Dec 1995 22:17:21 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 11 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bqds1$l27@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bp6h2$j91@stratus.skypoint.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bp6h2$j91@stratus.skypoint.net>, edvanc29@skypoint.com (Dutch) writes: >Choose the one without traps but keep in mind that Gap has >made many compromises too in cramming the Titan full of coaxial stubs. I wonder why traps are given such a bum rap?? Did they say they were worse than stubs, and what's the logic WR used??? 73, Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7??? Date: 27 Dec 1995 14:43:01 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 26 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bs7k5$b9q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article , n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) writes: > >Oh come on Tom! You _know_ coax-fed, trap-resonated antennas are terribly >"lossy", while non-resonant ladder line and tuner fed antennas are >"efficient." > >Why, this is "conventional wisdom." How could it possibly be wrong? > > Oh-Yes-Wes, now I remember. Traps do dissipate all kinds of power. The single 20 meter trap in my Butternut dissipates nearly half of my 1500 watt transmitter's power. I forgot about the big cooling fins on the trap and the coil in oil internal design all the lossy nasty ugly traps use. How could I be so forgetful! I'm sure a folded up chunk of coax feedline called a tuning stub, or a 10 to one SWR on lossless ladder line fed with a lossless tuner is much more efficient tan a trap! 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: ground and the long wire antenna Date: 23 Dec 1995 14:19:04 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 33 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bh34o$ngk@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us >Dave Hockaday WB4IUY >wb4iuy@nando.net >Everything I've been told and read suggests that the lightning rod is only >for lightning protection, and the wires only need to be connected together >at the the feedpoint (to the shield of the feedpoint). The longwire antenna needs a reference plane of some kind to launch a wave. The back yard is the preferred reference plane, and not the furnace pipes, the TV set, the rig, the operator, etc. If the long wire has a high impedance at the output of the transmatch, so that the current into the ground connection is small, the connection is *less* critical than if the current is large (1/4 wave). In the first instance a few ground rods with a resistance to ground of 15 Ohms or so may be, not perfect, but OK. If the ground current is large a substantial ground wire system is needed. In either case the coax from the xmtr to the transmatch should be loaded with ferrite beads to minimize "backflow" of RF to the operating position. One approach would be to add a high Q inductor to the wire that would raise the driving point impedance to, say, 300 Ohms. This would reduce ground current considerably. One could also make the wire 5/8 wavelength. The wire does not have to be any particular length as long as it can be tuned OK. The extra length moves the max current farther above ground, which is helpful. The higher antenna drive point impedance *may* also improve the transmatch efficiency. There is an article in the Summer 1994 Edition of Communications Quarterly, written by myself and reviewed by K6STI. If you like, I will snail mail or fax a copy to any one who wants it. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: sfylaqc@scfn.THpl.lib.fl.US (richard smith) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #627 Date: 26 Dec 95 05:01:39 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 1 Message-ID: References: <199512241230.EAA16691@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu unsubscribe From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:12 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: sfylaqc@scfn.THpl.lib.fl.US (richard smith) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #628 Date: 26 Dec 95 05:16:52 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 2 Message-ID: References: <199512251230.EAA05495@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu unsubscribe From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: sfylaqc@scfn.THpl.lib.fl.US (richard smith) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #629 Date: 26 Dec 95 05:20:25 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 2 Message-ID: References: <199512260034.QAA10898@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu unsubscribe From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!noc.near.net!usenet.continental.com!usenet From: Paul Christensen Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help - 160m Beverage Date: 22 Dec 1995 20:38:24 GMT Organization: Continental Cablevision Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4bf500$nbj@usenet.continental.com> References: <4bb0hm$72p@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> <4bbraf$cms@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.152.167.70 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: w8jitom@aol.com >It's pretty well established that lengths over 1 wl don't add >performance,bu t they don't hurt much either. It depends on your definition of performance: The difference in gain between 1 and 4 wavelengths at 160 meters can be as much as 5 dB. I use the term "gain" relatively since it is negative with repect to an isoltropic radiator. Additionally, the wave angle at 1 wavelength is typically 50 degrees. At 4 wavelengths, it is generally less than 24 degrees. As the length of the antenna increases, the wave angle decreases, and asymptotically approaches ten degrees with wavelengths greater than twelve. Beyond 5 or 6 wavelengths, gain as referenced against an isoltropic radiator, actually decreases. The moral here is that for low launch angle DX work, the longer wavelength beverages are preferred. -Paul, N9AZ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:15 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!server-b.cs.interbusiness.it!galactica.galactica.it!usenet From: Angelo Zambaiti Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: help for quad Date: 24 Dec 1995 10:40:44 GMT Organization: Galactica Professional Communication Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4bjanc$6vs@galactica.galactica.it> NNTP-Posting-Host: net.galactica.it Hello dr om, I am a cubical quad supporter and builder,and I just made a double driven 4 elements monobander on 20 mt. but I have only a few information about it so results were not very good. So I greatly appreciate if you send me via e-mail or on the newsgroup details,suggestions,descriptions,sizes or any kind of idea about dual driven quad.That's all! Seasonal greetings for everybody. Ciao de IK2RZP Angelo Gino Zambaiti e-mail gino@galactica From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.tek.com!netman.ens.tek.com!not-for-mail From: terrybu@netman.ens.tek.com (Terry Burge) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: help for quad Date: 24 Dec 1995 19:22:37 -0800 Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA Lines: 32 Message-ID: <4bl5dt$ljg@netman.ens.tek.com> References: <4bjanc$6vs@galactica.galactica.it> NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com In article <4bjanc$6vs@galactica.galactica.it> Angelo Zambaiti writes: >Hello dr om, >I am a cubical quad supporter and builder,and I just made a >double driven 4 elements monobander on 20 mt. but I have only >a few information about it so results were not very good. >So I greatly appreciate if you send me via e-mail or on the >newsgroup details,suggestions,descriptions,sizes or any kind >of idea about dual driven quad.That's all! >Seasonal greetings for everybody. >Ciao de IK2RZP >Angelo Gino Zambaiti e-mail gino@galactica > Hello Angelo, A friend I met on the air many years ago was W6PU. For years he ran a 4 element quad at about 80 feet and had one of the best signals on the west coast. Some years back he converted it to a dual driven element quad with director and reflector (4 elements). The two driven elements we phased with 135 degree phasing coax between them that contributed to the increase in gain and at the same time contributed to a wide bandwidth. Seeing (in this case hearing) is believing. That quad of his was a killer. Several years ago W6PU published an articlw in Amateur Radio CQ magazine on his dual driven quad that I wish I had. I don't recall the issue but perhaps someone on the net will have it. Good luck with your quad. Just got my 2 element 20-10 lightning bolt quad back up this weekend after our big storm a couple of weeks ago knocked it over. Terry KI7M From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: s51fu@ljutcp.hamradio.si Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help on Diffraction loss calculation Date: 25 Dec 95 11:24:11 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 6 Message-ID: <118125@ljutcp.hamradio.si> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Can somebody shoot me the formulas and/or basic algorithms for Diffraction over obstacles and irregular terrain radio path loss calculation? Any relating computer basic program known? Your assistance is much appreciated! Thanks, Danilo + From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:18 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!news From: rtristan@concentric.net (Ramon Tristani) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 19:45:44 GMT Organization: MEV Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4bpj8h$6o6@spectator.cris.com> References: <4aqgd1$ft5@ddi2.digital.net> <4b4b63$evr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: rtristan@concentric.net NNTP-Posting-Host: crc6-fddi.cris.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 pricemw@aol.com (Pricemw) wrote: >>Can somebody shoot me the formula for free space path loss of a radio >signal? >>Your assistance is much appreciated. >Rick-- >Good question!! From memory, I think the equation is 36.6+20log f + 20 >log d. >f is in mhz, d is in miles, and the answer is in db. This should be >checked, since I have not used the equation in several years. >However, remember that the equation is for a point source, and assumes >that radiation is in all directions, thus the path loss. (The total >radiated power is distributed on the imaginary spherical surface at >distance d. As d increases, the watts/square surface decreases.) >So...keep in mind that a pair of perfect dish antennas pointed at each >other would have NO path loss. i.e. all the transmitted power is >received. >--Wayne W5GIE in Redlands, CA Hi. The equation is correct except that the first number should be 96.6 instead of 36.6. This equation is used in M/W line of sight work. With inospheric prop involved the results will vary widely. Ramon Tristani, kp4ge From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:19 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Kirchhoff and the entire world Date: 23 Dec 1995 15:14:47 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bh6d7$nio@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Merry Christmas W8JITom to you and your family, The Earth is like a huge energy storage tank, a 1000 Farad capacitor (or whatever it is). You dump RF energy into it at one place, say in your back yard or in Timbuktu or whatever, and you extract energy from it at 60 Hz to run your equipment. You could charge the batteries next week or whatever and Mother Earth won't care. In one way or another energy and charge are conserved world wide. We could think of the Earth as one huge component in a network that Herr Kirchhoff would recognize. My premise is that it is often easier to think in those terms, in antenna work, than to get all tangled up with where the exact return paths are located. The power (or energy) that is radiated also returns to earth somewhere, in strange ways. In any antenna setup where there are losses that cannot be easily accounted for by conventional circuit theory it is useful to have a simpler way to think of it. In any real world setup the return of *all* of the ground current *directly* to the xmtr is always in doubt. Eventually, all of the energy and charge are accounted for, but in my opinion it is not necessary to go through a lot of mental gyrations just to justify one particular way of looking at a problem. Kirchhoff's laws are great, but they are just one particular example of the larger concept of the conservation of charge and energy. The example of the battery operated xmtr is an example of this. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!rkarlqu From: rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world Date: 23 Dec 1995 18:36:32 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4bhi7g$er@hpscit.sc.hp.com> References: <4bh6d7$nio@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com In article <4bh6d7$nio@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, wrote: >Merry Christmas W8JITom to you and your family, > >The Earth is like a huge energy storage tank, a 1000 Farad capacitor >(or whatever it is). You dump RF energy into it at one place, FWIW: I remember reading in Halliday & Resnick's "Physics" that the self-capacitance of the earth is about 700 microfarads. Rick N6RK From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:21 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!news From: barnaby@world.std.com (Richard Barnaby) Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world Message-ID: Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Nntp-Posting-Host: world.std.com Organization: Business Support Services X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.113 References: <4bh6d7$nio@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:16:57 GMT Lines: 30 sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us wrote: >The Earth is like a huge energy storage tank, a 1000 Farad capacitor >(or whatever it is). You dump RF energy into it at one place, >say in your back yard or in Timbuktu or whatever, and you extract >energy from it at 60 Hz to run your equipment. You could charge the >batteries next week or whatever and Mother Earth won't care. In one >way or another energy and charge are conserved world wide. We could >think of the Earth as one huge component in a network that Herr Kirchhoff >would recognize. OK, I've been lurking around this thread a bit, trying to learn :-) and I'm now really confused. Energy and charge are conserved world wide? Howzzzat? What about radiation from the sun? What about radio waves lost to space? Are you saying the earth is a "closed system"? -Richard Barnaby ********************************************************* * Richard Barnaby Business Support Services * * 3230 E. Flamingo Rd #505 * * Las Vegas, NV 89121 * * 800-864-5591 pager AA1IB Amateur Radio * ********************************************************* From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world Date: 23 Dec 1995 15:26:15 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 75 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bhol7$crp@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bh6d7$nio@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hello Again Bill, In article <4bh6d7$nio@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: > >Merry Christmas W8JITom to you and your family, Merry Xmas to, you also Bill and your friends and family, and to all others lurking about on the net. >The Earth is like a huge energy storage tank, a 1000 Farad capacitor >(or whatever it is). You dump RF energy into it at one place, >say in your back yard or in Timbuktu or whatever, and you extract >energy from it at 60 Hz to run your equipment. You could charge the >batteries next week or whatever and Mother Earth won't care. In one >way or another energy and charge are conserved world wide. We could >think of the Earth as one huge component in a network that Herr Kirchhoff >would recognize. Well sure, the mass is so large the earth wouldn't change potential much from the addition of a great number of electrons, or a shortage of them. But that ignores the small mass of the antenna! >My premise is that it is often easier to think in those terms, in >antenna work, than to get all tangled up with where the exact return >paths are located. The power (or energy) that is radiated also returns >to earth somewhere, in strange ways. I think this is the point of mis-communication. The concern is two-fold. Losses caused by field effects in the lossy media surrounding the antenna and direct connection losses caused by currents from the terminals of the antenna. We need a "foothold" to force current into and out of the antenna. Certainly the earth is an adequate mass for this, but we need a low resistance mass to minimize loss. And that mass can be rather small. The smaller the mass, the larger the voltage change as we "push" or "pull" against it. A primary concern is the resistance is not high in our ground system, and we really know where all the current is so we can calculate losses. At the terminals of any fixed potential difference source the current leaving one terminal must equal the current arriving at the other. The only way electrons could move off into the earth to never return is if the electrical potential of the antenna was raised to a high posiutive voltage and held there, but then current flow would stop. The only way current flow in one direction could be maintained is if the voltage was constantly increasing. That is one of the fundemental rules when dealing with charges and current flow, and it is ALWAYS true. The minute the generator pulls the feedpoint voltage back towards zero, everything reverses. When it finally crosses zero everything *MUST* be back in equilibrium. We can't have lost any electrons. The antenna follows this rule. So we can't send electrons off anywhere to simply "get lost". Even if it is at a nice vacation resort for electrons! Just as many electrons must return as left earlier in the cycle, or we can't reverse the polairity of the antenna! >In any antenna setup where there are losses that cannot be easily >accounted for by conventional circuit theory it is useful to have >a simpler way to think of it. In any real world setup the return >of *all* of the ground current *directly* to the xmtr is always in >doubt. Eventually, all of the energy and charge are accounted for, >but in my opinion it is not necessary to go through a lot of mental >gyrations just to justify one particular way of looking at a problem. >Kirchhoff's laws are great, but they are just one particular example >of the larger concept of the conservation of charge and energy. The >example of the battery operated xmtr is an example of this. I agree with this. As you say, the losses absolutely can not be accounted for. That is why field strength meters are used to measure system efficiency rather than trying to measure currents at one point and reach abstract conclusions. Doubts always remain with current measurements unless we absolutely know where the current is flowing and what the resistive losses are in the path, From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world Date: 24 Dec 1995 02:06:58 GMT Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4bick2$4fi@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4bh6d7$nio@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-31.teleport.com X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) I'll jump in against my better judgement. This has been an interesting thread, invoking Earth capacitance, displacement currents, the lack of "closed systems", and other factors to explain what seems to some to be a violation of Kirchoff's current law. From all this, is someone claiming that under any circumstances, you can observe one point in any conductor (regardless of its connection/non-connection to Earth, the presence of displacement currents, or the phase of the moon), vectorially add all currents into that point of the conductor, and get a result other than zero? Roy Lewallen, W7EL From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world Date: 24 Dec 1995 10:22:04 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 22 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bjr6s$ei@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bick2$4fi@maureen.teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bick2$4fi@maureen.teleport.com>, w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) writes: >From all this, is someone claiming that under any circumstances, >you can observe one point in any conductor (regardless of its >connection/non-connection to Earth, the presence of displacement >currents, or the phase of the moon), vectorially add all currents >into that point of the conductor, and get a result other than >zero? > >Roy Lewallen, W7EL Hi Roy, We could re-hash everything, but it would be best if you read Doty and Frey's QST or CQ articles. If needed, I could repost anything you missed. I have it all in a file. Merry Christmas Roy, Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:26 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk From: Ian G3SEK Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Kirchhoff Rides Again Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 16:45:29 +0000 Organization: IFWtech Lines: 8 Message-ID: <862890404wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk Happy Holidays to all our readers! -- 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:27 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!charles1 From: charles1@netcom.com (charles copeland) Subject: Re: Kirchoff Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <4ben41$iqq@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 18:50:26 GMT Lines: 27 Sender: charles1@netcom14.netcom.com In article <4ben41$iqq@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, wrote: >OK Tom, let me ask you a question. > >Suppose I have a battery operated xmtr sitting on a table, no ground, >pumping RF to the vertical antenna and some of the RF power is lost >in the ground. Where is the return ground current? [reply of radio newbie] If you have no radials or no ground, I'd say most of your current is burned up in the radio due to high SWR. Radio waves are created between the radials and vertical (or connected ground) thereby closing current loop. Your return current would go to outside of coax feeding vertical. What happens to the radio waves after they leave the closed current loop is of no imporance to the circuit. The earth will absorb radio waves, but will not flow current in this situation. >Answer: the return current is next week sometime when I recharge the >batteries from the 60 Hz power line. > >Where is your friend Kirchoff then? Rolling in his grave? From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Kirchoff Date: 23 Dec 1995 08:50:25 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 68 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bh1f1$5n7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4ben41$iqq@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Bill, I have a hard time understanding the tone of this. I will treat it as a serious question, even though it may not be intended that way. In article <4ben41$iqq@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: >OK Tom, let me ask you a question. >Suppose I have a battery operated xmtr sitting on a table, no ground, >pumping RF to the vertical antenna and some of the RF power is lost >in the ground. Where is the return ground current? The system can NEVER have unequal currents at the base of the antenna and the common point of the radial system if the test setup meets the following criteria and if measurement methods are without flaw: 1.) The feedline does not act like a radial. 2.) The rig and it's support equipment has very low capacitance (high impedance) to earth and a *very short* feedline is used. The combined common mode "electrical mass" or impedance of rig and feedline must be negligible. 3.) In lieu of two, a simple choke system of adequate impedance is used to isolate the feeder and rig from the antenna system. In this case the rig can be grounded or isolated and the feedline can be any length. The "ground path" through the coax and rig for common mode currents must have a high common mode impedanvce so they are effectively removed from the system for those currents. If the above criteria is met, and no other physical connections exist between the antenna and the earth (other than through the radial system measurement point), the net base current and common point ground current will *always* be exactly identical. This will be completely true regardless of any losses in the earth system. The only effect ground losses will have in a properly implemented test is to reduce the entire antenna system current. Antenna current will drop exactly in step with total radial current as the ground is made less efficient. >Answer: the return current is next week sometime when I recharge the >batteries from the 60 Hz power line. I fail to understand the point here. Are you now saying the current wanders off into the universe and finds it's way back into the electrical generating station and eventually back to the rig when you recharge the battery? Or that one post of the battery will have more current than the other??? >Where is your friend Kirchoff then? Everywhere in every circuit, as he always is. It sounds like you may be confusing the effect produced by accelerating charges in a conductor with electrons actually flying out into the air and moving things in a receiving antenna. My antennas all operate on the accelerating charge principle, since I can transmit more than a foot or two through almost any propagation media. My TV set CRT operates on the moving electron principle, at least until the beam hits the screen. It is a fairly short range device, and requires a "return path" from the screen mask to the cathode of the tube. ;-) 73, Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:32 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Kirchoff's Laws Date: 22 Dec 1995 11:01:36 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 69 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bekp0$cok@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bebe5$l0q@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Bill, In article <4bebe5$l0q@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us writes: >There has been a lot of antenna and ground plane discussion in >which Kirchoff's Laws are mentioned as "absolutely unquestionable". <<>>>> >of Mexico. And to argue that it somehow returns from there back to the >generator is really stretching things a bit. In other words the >generator is not like some kind of "magnet" or Hoover vacuum cleaner. I'm sorry Bill, but I both agree and disagree with that. The amount of current flowing "upwards" in the base of the antenna must equal the current "returned" to the source from the ground. At the base of the vertical antenna, if one ampere of total current flow is measured, the net ground current return must also be one ampere. Remember if we apply the correct rules in this case, the voltage is constant from the source. This example follows the analysis of a battery or AC generator, not an electron gun floating in space. If it were an object floating in space beaming outr electrons, the voltage could increase. Such an object emitting electrons into the "universe" would not need to have a "return path" for current. But the electrical potential of that object would rapidly increase until electron flow stopped, or electrons were attacted back to the emitter and it was once again in balance with the "universe". In the antenna system we are discussing, it is excited by a generator of some form. It was not an electron gun. The generator must have been of finite impedance (fixed ac voltage), and the current flowing into one terminal of such generator must equal the current flowing out the other at any given instant of time. Without proper feedline treatment, the entire path back to that terminal becomes very "unclear" to us. We have no idea if the path was lossy or not. In that we do agree. The only path we can define is the one through low loss highly conductive radials. The larger the difference between the net current flowing in the base of the antenna, and the net current being returned from the relatively low resistance wire in the radials, the more positive we can be that losses increased. The most generous thought we can offer is that "we just don't know". But the most logical and likely thought is the more unequal the current the greater the loss. Any likelyhood current would find a less lossy path than via the radial system is very slim to impossible. >I recently remarked that the Earth is like a huge, lossy capacitor that >tends to "swallow up" charges and currents. I think this is to some >extent true and that we should not accept Kirchoff blindly in >situations that Herr Kirchoff never intended. Power dissipation and >energy conservation are a lot less controversial. It also accounts for the >micro-microwatts that you put into the antenna of that new country that >you need. That would only be true if the antenna were "beaming electrons" off into space. We know from field theory that isn't true (and that is why I hate the term "displacement currents" so much). We know the fields really aren't electron currents traveling throug space. If we were transmitting with an electron gun, that would be true. But the antenna and the earth (or whatever was "collecting" the electrons) would almost instantly be many millions of electron volts apart from our generator if no return path existed. We certainly can't "spray" a lot of electrons before that happens (actually not even one for any distance, hi)! 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:33 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW From: sabinw@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Kirchoff's laws Date: 24 Dec 1995 10:57:12 GMT Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA, 52401 Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bjbm8$s4k@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: SABINW@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us >is someone claiming that under any circumstances, you can observe one point >in any conductor, regardless of its connection/non-connection to Earth, >the presence of displacement currents, vectorially add all currents into that >point of the conductor, and get a result other than zero? >Roy Lewallen, W7EL Reply: "someone" is not claiming any such thing. The article being referred to deserves to be read more carefully. The claim is (clearly) that the use of Kirchhoff's laws, in complicated situations, is not the simplest way to accoun t for the distribution of current, voltage, energy, charge, etc. The claim is that it is often not worthwhile to go into elaborate mental gymnastics just to satisfy Herr Kirchhoff, when other methods are just as valid. This is not by any stretch a violation of Kirchhoff' Laws. If I did that I'm sure the Sheriff would be banging at my door. The basic link is that if everything is "conserved" then Kirchhoff is satisfied. I thought I made that clear. 73 and Happy Xmas, William E. (Bill) Sabin W0IYH, a.k.a."someone" From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!news1.opennet.net.au!desire.apana.org.au!troll.apana.org.au!quux.apana.org.au!not-for-mail From: plove@quux.apana.org.au (Paul Love) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: 23 Dec 1995 06:13:01 +1000 Organization: quux -- APANA Redcliffe Lines: 46 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bf3gd$gen@quux.apana.org.au> References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: quux.apana.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] GARY RAWSON (gary.rawson@mindless.org) wrote: : Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will : get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before : October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest : with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code : tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it : to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15 : characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go : the more characters I miss. In another words when I first : start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little : more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems : like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody : do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning : the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first : started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working : HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when : my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air : are listening it to this year. : 73's : Gary : N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA : Gary.Rawson@mindless.org =============================================> Hello Gary, All I can say is how I learned the code. Great idea using the tapes when I learned they were the best way to go, of course there are now zillions of morse tutorial programs around. Till you have the alphabet down pat , stick to sessions of 10 minutes (max 15 ), with the tapes. This is important as any longer your attention wanders. After you have the alphabet, then you can step up a bit...both speed and duration. This is because now it means something to you, and your enjoying it. About now would be the time to venture onto the bands and copy from air. Before you know it you'll be copying 12 wpm with ease and enjoying it. Down here in VK we have slow morse broadcasts, sure ARRL would do the same , this is ideal, it's fun to look at the pad and see a complete message written down ! Have Fun Gary... 73 de Paul. **************************************************************************** * E-Mail : plove@quux.apana.org.au | Ax25: vk4xd @ vk4itm.#bne.qld.aus.oc* **************************************************************************** From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:36 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!dircon!usenet From: d-cripps@dircon.co.uk (David Cripps) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 10:40:21 GMT Organization: Direct Connection Lines: 35 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4be210$18d@newsgate.dircon.co.uk> References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: gw4-090.pool.dircon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.9 gary.rawson@mindless.org says... > >Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will >get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before >October 1996. Gary, I'm in the same boat at the moment (although the licence names are different in the UK). I've approached the code using software on my PC. The one package I'm using is NuMorse (the latest V1.3 can be downloaded from: ftp://hamster.business.uwo.ca/pub/amsoft another package I've tried was SuperMorse, but had problems with the dit/dah timing!) The advice I've been given is (and seems to be working) is to learn at 15wpm but with long gaps between each letter. As you feel confident then reduce the times between letters, but keep each letter at 15wpm. That way you don't listen and try to count the individual dits and dahs and then convert back, but listen to the letter, so hearing "Char-lie-Char-lie" is automatically "C". (As an aside are there any other little sayings to get the rhythm of each letter fixed in the mind?) Good luck 73 Dave Cripps G7IDB (now at about 5wpm and slowly improving) From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet From: hrsil@flinet.com (KE4WBW) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: LEARNING CW Date: 24 Dec 1995 04:00:50 GMT Organization: Florida Internet Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bij9i$5ki@news.flinet.com> References: <4ailsv$eu0@dfw.nkn.net> <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb64.flinet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 In article <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org>, gary.rawson@mindless.org says... > >--------------------------------------------------------- > Gary, getting worse as time goes on is normal when copying code, soon you'll be extending your sessions with a number of practice runs under your belt. The next thing you'll probably notice is that your hand absolutly refuses to move, yes you can hear just fine but the mind to hand connection is hopelessly lost for a while. The main point is just do it. Do it often -- Henry Silvia hrsil@flinet.com {KE4WBW} WPB. FLA From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:38 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!fullfeed!pendragon!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: fingurz@aol.com (Fingurz) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Looking for parts, please respond! Date: 25 Dec 1995 04:57:55 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 5 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4blsj3$g5n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: fingurz@aol.com (Fingurz) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Trying to find a good source for old radio and radio amplifier components, chiefly vacuum tubes, paper/wax capacitors and electrolytics. Any information would be greatly appreciated (name/phone/location etc.) I am a collector in the Chicago area, and have exhausted all of my local sources. Thanks again! From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: pauls1234@aol.com (PaulS1234) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Looking for parts, please respond! Date: 25 Dec 1995 12:18:17 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 15 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bmmcp$jtp@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4blsj3$g5n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: pauls1234@aol.com (PaulS1234) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com A great source for the type of parts you are seeking is "Antique Radio Supply" they are located at: 6221 S. Maple Avenue Tempe, AZ 85283 Phone: (602) 820-5411 FAX: (602) 820-4643 Toll Free FAX: (800) 706-6789 Just ask for their catalog. Very interesting reading! Regards, Paul From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:40 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!ghiscox From: "George L. Hiscox" Subject: Re: Looking for parts, please respond! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: To: fingurz@aol.com Sender: ghiscox@netcom22.netcom.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <4blsj3$g5n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 20:54:19 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Lines: 16 fingurz@aol.com (Fingurz) wrote: >Trying to find a good source for old radio and radio amplifier components, >chiefly vacuum tubes, paper/wax capacitors and electrolytics. Any >information would be greatly appreciated (name/phone/location etc.) I am a >collector in the Chicago area, and have exhausted all of my local sources. Check out the following web page for a source of old parts: http://www.1eagle1.com/commercial/pwdco/ -- | George L. Hiscox | Very funny Scotty... Now | | ghiscox@netcom.com | beam down my clothes !!! | | WA6RIK @ WB6YMH.#socal.ca.usa.na | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:41 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!news.ossi.com!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line? Date: 22 Dec 1995 10:32:16 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 31 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bej20$c5r@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi David, In article , draagen@forge.connectnet.com (David Negaard) writes: > >Does this in fact work? It works very well if you use enough turns. I wind mine on 4" PVC drainpipe like a single layer coil. >How many turns are appropriate? The impedance of the choke needs to be as high as you can make it on the band you are operating, 500 ohms or more of inductance would be enough. You can find formula's for coils in Handbooks. Roy Lewallen published a nice list on the net a while ago. The values aren't critical as long as the coil is big enough. >Should I do this at the antenna feed-point, the transceiver output, or >both? I'd do it at the feedpoint. That is good enough if the feedline comes away from the antenna at a right angle. If the feedline is still "hot" a second choke helps. I have sencond chokes here where the lines come into the house because it helps prevent lightning damage! >And on a related note, what would be my best choice for feed line? Whatever you like. At HF on short runs the loss is nil anyway. Just use good quality stuff. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: tpluther@aol.com (Tpluther) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line? Date: 22 Dec 1995 16:21:16 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 4 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bf7gc$jj3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bej20$c5r@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: tpluther@aol.com (Tpluther) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Is there a similar puppy to be used for ladder line????or is it not necessary?? .......................................Ken Luther --- Systems Analyst........................................ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet From: w7el@teleport.com (Roy Lewallen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line? Date: 23 Dec 1995 04:24:56 GMT Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software Lines: 33 Message-ID: <4bg0ao$ogi@maureen.teleport.com> References: <4bej20$c5r@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx05-15.teleport.com X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) > w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) writes: > Hi David, > In article , > draagen@forge.connectnet.com (David Negaard) writes: > >Does this in fact work? > It works very well if you use enough turns. I wind mine on 4" PVC > drainpipe like a single layer coil. > >How many turns are appropriate? > The impedance of the choke needs to be as high as you can make it on the > band you are operating, 500 ohms or more of inductance would be enough. > You can find formula's for coils in Handbooks. Roy Lewallen published a > nice list on the net a while ago. The values aren't critical as long as > the coil is big enough. Tom's method of winding on a 4" drainpipe probably results in an inductor (as far as the current on the outside is concerned) with a relatively high self-resonant frequency, so as he says, the number of turns wouldn't be critical as long as there are enough. (I don't have a good feel for what constitutes "enough" -- maybe Tom can elaborate.) If you wind the coax into a flat coil like a coil of rope, you end up with a broadly resonant circuit (for current on the outside), and will get the highest impedance and therefore the most benefit if it's resonant near the frequency of operation. You can find a list of appropriate numbers of turns and lengths of cable in the ARRL Handbook. It's Table 19.4 in the 1996 edition, and appears in Handbooks back to '92 or so. 73, Roy Lewallen, W7EL From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.iii.net!dts From: dts@peanut.senie.com (Daniel Senie) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line? Date: 23 Dec 1995 14:47:31 GMT Organization: Daniel Senie Consulting Lines: 67 Message-ID: <4bh4qm$1u3@news.iii.net> References: <4bej20$c5r@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: peanut.iii.net In article <4bej20$c5r@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, W8JI Tom wrote: )Hi David, )In article , )draagen@forge.connectnet.com (David Negaard) writes: )> )>Does this in fact work? ) )It works very well if you use enough turns. I wind mine on 4" PVC )drainpipe like a single layer coil. I get the same effect with ferrite beads, by stacking a number of them over the outside of the coax at the same place as you'd put the turns of coax. Advantages seem to include a better appearance (i.e. cable is a little fatter at that point, versus the coil of coax), less coax used up going 'round and 'round the turns (depends on how much you pay for your given coax if that matters, versus the cost of the ferrites). I'd also be a little concerned depending on the type of coax with not making too sharp a bend when making the coil. Foam dielectric coax, and possibly air core (9913) don't necessarily respond well to this. ) )>How many turns are appropriate? ) )The impedance of the choke needs to be as high as you can make it on the )band you are operating, 500 ohms or more of inductance would be enough. )You can find formula's for coils in Handbooks. Roy Lewallen published a )nice list on the net a while ago. The values aren't critical as long as )the coil is big enough. ) )>Should I do this at the antenna feed-point, the transceiver output, or )>both? ) )I'd do it at the feedpoint. That is good enough if the feedline comes away )from the antenna at a right angle. If the feedline is still "hot" a second )choke helps. I have sencond chokes here where the lines come into the )house because it helps prevent lightning damage! With the ferrite approach, I place them just below the feedpoint, and usually have some additional ones either at the entry to the house, or wherever I do remote switching. There's no harm done adding additional chokes, and it'll help keep RF that couples onto the feedlines from reaching the shack. ) )>And on a related note, what would be my best choice for feed line? ) )Whatever you like. At HF on short runs the loss is nil anyway. Just use )good quality stuff. In your selection, consider your operating power levels, but also consider the weight of the coax. For some antennas, for example, I use RG8X due to its light weight when hanging from the feedpoint of a dipole. If the feedpoint is unsupported, the coax weight will significantly affect the shape of the antenna. If you have a very long run to your antennas, heavier coax will be a good idea . I've one antenna (R7) which for various reasons is over 300 feet of coax from the shack. The first 100 feet are on 1/2 heliax which runs to my remote HF switch, the other 200 feet to the R7 are in a buryable RG8-sized cable (it's got goo in it of some sort to keep the water from coming in). -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie Internet: dan@senie.com, Daniel Senie Consulting n1jeb@senie.com http://www.senie.com Packet Radio: N1JEB@KA1SRD.MA From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:46 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line? Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 23:13:21 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bolsq$6kr@crash.microserve.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 draagen@forge.connectnet.com (David Negaard) wrote: >I've heard from several sources that coax, looped about ten times, >does a good job of isolating feed line, reducing interference <> Just wanted to mention something in addition to the good advice already posted. The higher the impedance of the circuit that the choke is connected to, the more inductance is required. Therefore, as with ferrite beads, this technique is most effective when the antenna is resonant and the SWR on the feedline is low. I ran across one guy recently on the air who was using coiled coax as a choke balun to feed ladder line to his non-resonant dipole. In order to keep RF out of the shack on 75 meters, he ended up with a coil that was something like twenty turns at a six foot diameter. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: davidb9608@aol.com (DavidB9608) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: M2 6 meter halo Date: 23 Dec 1995 09:52:26 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 11 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bh53a$6j4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4b467v$hot@madeline.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: davidb9608@aol.com (DavidB9608) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I bought the m2 square loop for six meters last spring at Dayton. It worked very well during the band openings and for local contacts. I caught one of the early spring openings from florida to massachusetts and I had the big signal in a pileup running the m2 squared loop from the roof of my motor home with a ts 60 running 90 watts. It is very sturdy and seems like a good value I have also since obtained some several older hipar saturns and the m2 seems to work better and is easier to set up. The m2 is however very narrow banded 50.100-50.250 with the peak at 50.125. The twelth tree I hit after about three months of use mobile did crack the plastic holder on the top of the m2 but it was easy to replace. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!news From: burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com (Bruce Burke Redi) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole Date: 22 Dec 1995 13:04:50 GMT Organization: Motorola RPG I.C. Technology Center Lines: 28 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4beadi$fbo@brokaw.comm.mot.com> References: Reply-To: burke_br@adcae1.comm.mot.com NNTP-Posting-Host: md20.comm.mot.com In article 6sK@boi.hp.com, bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm) writes: }CPaulien (cpaulien@aol.com) wrote: }: Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the }: metal of a car roof? } }Yes. I've used both, mag on the car, drilled and mounted on my old truck. }Both worked as well as the other. No problems with speed, etc.. Only two }problems: the hole in the truck when I decided to sell it meant I had to }do something to fix that and the mag mount didn't do much damage, but it }did make a mark on the car (since given to my daughter). The mark on the }car was easily removed with elbow grease. The hole in the truck I filled }with an old CB antenna I had laying around. Just something to think about }in the future. With the truck, for a permanent mount I'd make a bracket }and clamp the mag into that or get one of those hood lip brackets or make }a bracket that can be attached to existing screws and mount the through }connector there instead of drilling in the roof. } }73 de Bill, KC7JSD Good point. I would recommend buying an antenna that uses the same mount as a cellular antenna. Buy them both at the same time. That way, when you sell, it is just a matter of a quick swap, and a value added one at that! 73, Bruce, WB4YUC From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:55 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: POSTMASTER@ost1.vojnet.telub.SE Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Mail failure Date: 22 Dec 95 07:59:00 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 689 Message-ID: <30E5659E@noak> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu [021] Message was not delivered due to missing routing file. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return-Path: Errors-To: ham-ant-relay@ucsd.edu Sender: ham-ant-relay@ucsd.edu Precedence: List Message-Id: <199512220019.QAA13507@mail.ucsd.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 16:19:28 PST From: Ham-Ant Mailing List and Newsgroup Errors-To: Ham-Ant-Errors@ucsd.edu Reply-To: Ham-Ant@ucsd.edu Precedence: List Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #620 To: Ham-Ant@ucsd.edu Ham-Ant Digest Thu, 21 Dec 95 Volume 95 : Issue 620 Today's Topics: [Q] Homebrew Hardline? Baloon Scanning Doty article once again (2 msgs) Doty QST Article Ham-Ant Digest Ham-Ant Digest V95 #613 Hygain Hytower on 160?? Invisible fence? Looped coax isolates feed line? Mag Mount vs drilling a hole Minimum element spacing on yagi Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions References for Complex Math behind 'Smith Charts' Stuff to build YAGI's with. TVI situation. Suggestions? Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching? Verticle Antenna for HF Send Replies or notes for publication to: Send subscription requests to: Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the Ham-Ant Digest are available (by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-ant". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:37:33 GMT From: rkarlqu@scd.hp.com (Richard Karlquist) Subject: [Q] Homebrew Hardline? In article <4asvei$4fk@news1.inlink.com>, Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr. wrote: >More years ago than I care to remember! When we installed a new >tower, we would make our own hardline using 12 guage copper wire onto >which were slipped plastic pop-bead spacers, this was placed inside of Where do you get "plastic pop-bead spacers", whatever those are? >either a copper or aluminum tube the height of the tower. A connector >was soldered to the top of the tube, a vacuum drawn on the tube >through a little pigtail clamped and soldered. How do you make the connector hermetic? > >My question is, does anyone remember the tube diameter used to do >this, to achieve approx. 50 ohm impedance????? Without the beads, the O.D. is 2.3 times the I.D., of course. For 12 gauge wire (.08 inch), that comes out to .184 O.D. I don't know what kind of tubing would have that inner diameter, maybe 1/8 inch iron pipe size hard copper plumbing tubing? Maybe 1/4 O.D. soft copper tubing (would have to be .033 wall)? > >Gary >KG0ZP Rick N6RK ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:15:15 GMT From: moritz@ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de () Subject: Baloon Scanning >If this _is_ a workable solution to problems in hilly areas, for instance, >is there anything you can do to optimize the antenna for better reception >(like using solid-core wire as opposed to stranded, or using a pair and >putting an 80 ohm resistor between them so you've got an 80-ohm antenna, >or placing a "duck" antenna on the baloon and run the wires off that to >the ground...) Hi Soren, Yes, I always fill a 100 meter length of 1/2" copper tubing with 75 Ohms resistors and suspend it from a baloon. Works great. Alternatively, you should think about the wavelength (frequencies) of the signals you want to receive, and what suitable (broad band) antenna is available. The best way to raise it is driving your car (+ receiver + antenna) on a hill top. Moritz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 23:21:00 -0300 From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Subject: Doty article once again SS> I have been sitting here, looking at Doty's article and at two SS> Tables of data that relate antenna current to the radial return SS> current for two cases 1) radials arranged as a counterpoise SS> (insulated from ground) and 2) radials arranged as a ground screen SS> (radials grounded in many places). Here are the results: Case 1 Case 2 nr radials %return nr radials %return 12 66 12 87 20 90 20 90 48 100 48 99 SS> There's something wrong here Tom. With many radials he is getting SS> 100% of return current in the radials. With few radials the thing SS> that I mentioned previously is happening. Return current is SS> bypassing the radials and returning to the xmtr by different paths SS> that bypass the radials. I don't see anything here that tells where SS> the xmtr is located or what the transmission line looks like. SS> My final conclusion is that the author did not account for all the SS> current paths that ultimately lead back to the xmtr. But with 48 SS> radials almost all of it returns through the radials. Somehow the SS> discussion of this subject has gotten out of whack and you may wish SS> to read the entire article. If you like I will Fax a copy to you if SS> you have a Fax. Otherwise snail mail. Send a fone number or an SS> address if you want a copy. Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low number of radials and become equal with a higher number of radials is very simple. Doty's RF generator was not isolated from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his RF generator was located away from the antenna. This lack of isolation created another path through the ground for return current. This path necessarily would be a poor one, but would make its presence visible at a low number of radials. As the radials were increased, the radials began to become the main path for return current and at 48 radials completely overcame the poor ground return current. What it amounts to is paralleling a low resistance path across one of high resistance. When the low resistance path becomes low enough, we won't even notice the high resistance path. Doty's conclusion that equality of current return at 48 radials established equality of a ground system of 120 radials is completely erroneous. In his particular setup it merely was the number of radials necessary to overcome the high resistance of his extraneous ground connection. I'd warrant that had he continued to add radials, the currents, now equal, would have continued to increase. He provided no reading of the self-impedance of the vertical which would have allowed us to evaluate the real contribution of his counterpoise. There have been some attempts at explanation of the unequal currents of a low number of radials as being due to ground loss. Others have mentioned phase differences. Both of these effects were present, but the fact remains that Kirchoff's Law continued to hold. If we had access to an isolated RF generator we would find the currents equal at the two terminals of the generator and that they would necessarily be 180 degrees out of phase. Ground loss has nothing to do with this inequality, present or not; it would only determine the amount of RF generator current, whose outgoing and return currents would always be equal. Kirchoff's Law is not repealed. * RM 1.3 02583 * I liked Occam's razor so much I bought the company. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:34:55 -0500 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Subject: Doty article once again Hi Forrest, In article <8B74579.02CF000286.uuout@cencore.com>, forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) writes: >Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this >article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low >number of radials and become equal with a higher number of >radials is very simple. Doty's RF generator was not isolated >from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground >or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps >both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his >experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his >RF generator was located away from the antenna. > >This lack of isolation created another path through the ground >for return current. This path necessarily would be a poor >one, but would make its presence visible at a low number of >radials. As the radials were increased, the radials began >to become the main path for return current and at 48 radials >completely overcame the poor ground return current. What it >amounts to is paralleling a low resistance path across one >of high resistance. When the low resistance path becomes >low enough, we won't even notice the high resistance path. > >Doty's conclusion that equality of current return at 48 >radials established equality of a ground system of 120 >radials is completely erroneous. In his particular setup >it merely was the number of radials necessary to overcome the >high resistance of his extraneous ground connection. >I'd warrant that had he continued to add radials, the currents, >now equal, would have continued to increase. > >He provided no reading of the self-impedance of the vertical >which would have allowed us to evaluate the real contribution >of his counterpoise. > >There have been some attempts at explanation of the unequal >currents of a low number of radials as being due to ground >loss. Others have mentioned phase differences. Both of >these effects were present, but the fact remains that >Kirchoff's Law continued to hold. If we had access to an >isolated RF generator we would find the currents equal at >the two terminals of the generator and that they would >necessarily be 180 degrees out of phase. > >Ground loss has nothing to do with this inequality, present >or not; it would only determine the amount of RF generator >current, whose outgoing and return currents would always >be equal. Kirchoff's Law is not repealed. > That is all exactly correct Forrest, and it is the conclusion of many others. As a matter of fact, nearly all the people I have talked to that have a lot of practical antenna experience coupled with educational background agree with you. I received several E-mails from others that share that basic opinion. They also wrote and were ignored. Several of us were told we were the only ones complaining, hi. Your response is the ONLY logical explaination of the current's that were measured. The entire issue is very perplexing to me. The conclusions were so very obviously wrong, and the very valid questions raised by many of us were ignored. Doty may be a "nice guy". But that doesn't make his conclusions correct, no more than if he was not "nice" would make him wrong. I can find no logical technical arguement that supports his conclusions, or any reason to drag personal feelings into a technical debate. The issues are measurements and conclusions, not popularity or trust. On that basis, if it were Mary Tyler Moore, Mr. Rogers, or sweet little Grover from Sesame Street arguing Doty's point .....they would be incorrect. If it were Saddam Hussain, Bill Clinton or Newt Gingich arguing against his point.......they would be correct. Sorry. That's the way it is in technical discussions. 73, Tom ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 1995 13:38:43 -0800 From: terrybu@netman.ens.tek.com (Terry Burge) Subject: Doty QST Article In article <409827966wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk writes: >: > >Do take a look at Sevick's article: 'Short Ground-Radial Systems for Short >Verticals' (QST, April 1978). As well as dealing with short verticals, he >also considers resonant quarter-wave verticals, and systematically covers >the effects of the following on radiation efficiency: > > * radial length > * number of radials > * terminating earth spikes. > Excellent article and should be a must for anyone considering putting up a vertical antenna. This is the article I mentioned in my earlier post concerning 1/8 and 1/4 wavelength radials and their effects. > >I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into >the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some >light on that? > A very good question. I can think of atleast a few articles I would have put in the ARRL Antenna Handbook. And ones I would have left out. Ever try to build a quad for a particular frequency and find all the dementions in the handbook are either too short or too long? Try to find something for 435 Mhz satellite sometime. Even in the Satellite Handbook you will find they just don't give much. Basic practical theory articles are sadly lacking when you need to calculate measurements and/or want to know what effect something(s) will have. Not to mention how something works. Glad G3SEK found that article and mentioned it. Now to see if I still have the magazine. Terry KI7M ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 1995 20:52:29 GMT From: xcitor@radix.net (xcitor) Subject: Ham-Ant Digest Does anyone know how I can subscribe to this list? ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 95 00:09:12 GMT From: rpmarkey@nbn.NET Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #613 In article <8B6E30D.1731000A5E.uuout@mindless.org>, gary.rawson@mindless.org (GARY RAWSON) wrote: > Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will > get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before > October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest > with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code > tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it > to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15 > characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go > the more characters I miss. In another words when I first > start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little > more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems > like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody > do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning > the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first > started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working > HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when > my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air > are listening it to this year. > > 73's > Gary > N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA > Gary.Rawson@mindless.org Gary, when I first started I did not have the benefit of an elmer, just a technical background and a desire to get the license. For my first exam, I used Wayne Green's (73 Magazine) code tapes, consisting of coded groups sent at around 15 wpm. I learned the code that way but got hung up on always expecting groups of 4 or 5 letters. Plain text isn't like that. I managed to pass the exam but by the skin of my teeth. When I upgraded to extra, I used a combination of the 73 Magazine tapes and W1AW ( I now had a rig). I used the high speed run and worked from the fast stuff down to the slow stuff. It was much easier and passing the test was not as difficult. You have to find out what works best for you. Just beware the code tapes. The plain text can be memorized, and the coded groups can lull you into a false sense of security. Try to listen to some plain text, either on the air or generated by a computer. Good luck. de Rick, KN3C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:37:54 GMT From: mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us (Gary McDuffie, Sr.) Subject: Hygain Hytower on 160?? On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 04:00:45 GMT, glawson@inav.net wrote: > Some time ago I seen an article where someone placed a 40 meter trap > at the top of 40 metre radiator and then tied a wire to that to make > an inverted L out of the Hytower. > On mine I tied a 60 foot wire at the top of the 80 metre radiator to > make an inverted L. I matched it on 160 through a tapped coil to > ground. It had about 100 kHz of band width. As I remember, I > switched in a series capacitor to tune it on 80. > I hope this helps. That's the way mine came. There is a Hy-Gain 40m trap attached to the top of the tower and then some wire making up the top of the I-L. The reason it is a 40m trap is because it is attached to the top of the 40 meter "element" of the Hy-Tower. That is not to say it is at the top of the 40m stub, but the top of the tower is only used on 40m. This is also documented in the manual for the Hy-Tower. Hi Ron! Good to "see from you" again. __ _ __ __ / _ _ _ __ /_| / _ / )/| ) (__)(// (/ ( |(__)(__// |/ / mcduffie@hannibal.wncc.cc.ne.us ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 1995 05:01:13 GMT From: sholisky Subject: Invisible fence? My neighbor just put in an "invisible dog fence". I can just see "fluffy" doing the jig when I fire up on 40 cw....Anybody have one of these modern devices or knows how they respond to RFI (overload) ? Tnx 73's Scott WBxATR ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 1995 18:57:51 GMT From: draagen@forge.connectnet.com (David Negaard) Subject: Looped coax isolates feed line? I've heard from several sources that coax, looped about ten times, does a good job of isolating feed line, reducing interference to household devices (I blew up my answering machine the first time I keyed my transmitter with coax feed to an inverted V). My questions are: Does this in fact work? How many turns are appropriate? Should I do this at the antenna feed-point, the transceiver output, or both? And on a related note, what would be my best choice for feed line? Thanks for any and all help! -- David Negaard o San Diego District Youth Executive 625 Shenandoah Avenue o aquarist San Marcos, CA 92069 o linux-phile draagen@connectnet.com o 73 de KB0PXK -- David Negaard o San Diego District Youth Executive 625 Shenandoah Avenue o aquarist San Marcos, CA 92069 o linux-phile draagen@connectnet.com o 73 de KB0PXK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:31:10 GMT From: jgardner@netcom.com (Jerry Gardner) Subject: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole CPaulien (cpaulien@aol.com) wrote: : Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the : metal of a car roof? No. It is always preferable, from a technical point of view, to mount the antenna permanently. Go ahead and drill a hole and use an NMO mount. The installation looks much neater, and you don't have to worry about the coax getting crushed and deformed by the door or window, or whatever else you're routing it through. You don't see mag mounts on police, fire, or service vehicles, do you? : Also is there much advantage to using two separate antennas (VHF & UHF) : with a duplexer as compaired to a dual band antenna. I just purchased a : dual band HT and am planning to install one or more antennas on my car. I : am not afraid to drill holes in the roof if I thought it would be an : advantage to do so. There is an advantage, but not much, to using monoband antennas. Traps can be lossy and should be avoided if possible. -- Jerry Gardner | Maintainer of the Large Format Digest jgardner@netcom.com | Send subscription requests to jgardner@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 18:39:35 GMT From: ae110@rgfn.epcc.edu (Ed E Jensen) Subject: Minimum element spacing on yagi Steve Work (slwork@netcom.com) wrote: > Why is the minimum spacing of elements on a yagi 0.15 times the > wavelength? What if you try to design one with the elements closer > together (i.e half this distance)? How does this degrade the > performance of the antenna? Reduced gain? Less bandwidth? Actually a spacing as small as .1 wavelength will yield a working yagi but you will have to detune the parasitics considerably (make the reflector longer and the director shorter) to get acceptable bandwidth (bw) and radiation resistance (Rr) at the sacrifice of gain. Lower Rr results in harder matching and lower efficiency (and therefore lower gain since gain is actually efficiency times directivity) since the loss resistance (Rl) is then a higher proportion of the total antenna impedance. For example, a 20m beam on a 14 boom (.2wave total) yields about 5 dBd gain and still covers the whole 20m band with an swr of less than 2:1 and with a Rr of about 25 ohms. You can get more gain (about a dB more) by tuning the parasitics for a more restricted BW (about 100 kHz) and lower Rr (about 12 ohms). Doubling the length of the boom gets the gain up to 8 dBd and still covers the whole band and the Rr is even higher (about 35 ohms). The problem is even more acute with trapped elements since they have lower bw and higher Rl due to trap resonance and loss and shortened elements. In general the wider the spacing between parasitic elements, the closer you can tune them to the operating frequency (resulting in more gain) and still have acceptable bw and Z. In fact, I think an acceptable way to tune yagi parasitics is to make the reflector as short as you can and the director as long as you can and still have an swr bw that covers the band of interest. Hope this was of interest and helped. 73, Ed, K5ED, MSEE, ARRL TA, Electronics instructor Dona Ana College (Not to toot my horn, but I thinks it helps if you know the qualifications of the people giving advice and opinions) -- Ed Jensen, K5ED, El Paso, TX (ae110@rgfn.epcc.edu) ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 95 22:59:31 GMT From: turner@safety.ICS.UCI.EDU (Clark Savage Turner WA3JPG) Subject: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions Anyone familiar with these? I just picked one up at a very good price and it looks pretty good on the inside. It covers 80-10 I am told, and the roller inductor looks right for the job. Did the UT-2000B cover 160? If so, did they switch in extra inductance or add a longer roller inductor? I would like to add 160 to my UT-2000A and suspect it is a simple job with a sturdy switch. Or maybe I can find the UT-2000B for my 160 antenna :-) . Also, I think I recall someone on the antenna group stating that the "ultimate transmatch" design had one of the capacitors doing something silly.... There is a two ganged capacitor that is doing something useless? Just wonder if anyone remembers the comments or has a reference to it. Thanks. Clark WA3JPG ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:35:29 GMT From: "Keith W. Whites" Subject: References for Complex Math behind 'Smith Charts' hbaker@netcom.com (Henry Baker) wrote: >Does anyone have a reference to the mathematics behind the so-called 'Smith >Charts' used by microwave engineers to match impedences. They look to me like >stereographic projections of the complex plane, but perhaps someone else knows >a real reference to this mathematical mapping. Actually, the Smith Chart is simply a bilinear transformation. These types of transformations map circles in one plane into circles in another plane. Lines are just special cases of a circle -- i.e., degenerate circles. This bilinear tranformation maps normalized total impedance (admittance) on the TL into the complex generalized reflection coefficient plane. >If I can't find anything else, I'll look up Smith's original articles, which >I think were published in 1939 and 1945. That's correct. I'm fortunate enough to own one of the original 1945 copies which is the "revised" Smith Chart. But most introductory EM or transmission line texts have a reasonable discussion on the topic. See for example the text by Paul and Nasar "Introduction to Electromagnetic Fields." ______________________________________________________________________ Keith W. Whites e-mail: whites@engr.uky.edu Assistant Professor Department of Electrical Engineering Tele: (606) 257-1768 University of Kentucky FAX: (606) 257-3092 453 Anderson Hall Lexington, KY 40506-0046 ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 95 16:16:36 -0800 From: Ricker_msn@msn.com (Rick Ruhl) Subject: Stuff to build YAGI's with. Steve: That would have been my first choice (a hamfest) but it's not hamfest season. It'll be March/April before the hamfest's start again. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 1995 13:48:22 -0500 From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Subject: TVI situation. Suggestions? In article <4bc5fo$bir@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) writes: > >Anyone like to solve TVI puzzles? > > Hi Dan, First of all describe the TVI. Is it on all channels, or on one or two? What channels? The rig has a low pass, what type? What type of hi-pass? Do you have common mode chokes? Is the TV on cable or an antenna? Did you disconnect the VCR's and related stuff and only try the TV? ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 1995 23:49:59 GMT From: scicon@ix.netcom.com (Dan Walker ) Subject: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching? I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI. What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack which is 75ohms (i think) Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit? 73 de KE6LBX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:38:21 GMT From: hnewland@hitech.net.au (Henry J Newland) Subject: Verticle Antenna for HF Has anyone out there tried to homebrew a verticle for 30 to 10 mtrs? Comments on success would be appreciated. Does anyone have plans for such a beast? Details of available articles and locations would be appreciated. VK3HN, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia. ------------------------------ Date: (null) From: (null) 73 Tom ------------------------------ End of Ham-Ant Digest V95 #620 ****************************** From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:56 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.tek.com!netman.ens.tek.com!not-for-mail From: terrybu@netman.ens.tek.com (Terry Burge) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Merry Christmas to All Date: 22 Dec 1995 13:23:58 -0800 Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA Lines: 7 Message-ID: <4bf7le$9aa@netman.ens.tek.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and/or happy Hannaka. Now, to put this quad back up in the air after the 'blow of 95'. Terry KI7M From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:57 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to All Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 17:22:02 GMT Organization: Inlink Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4bhdt3$3ns@news1.inlink.com> References: <4bf7le$9aa@netman.ens.tek.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip110.inlink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 terrybu@netman.ens.tek.com (Terry Burge) wrote: >Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and/or happy Hannaka. >Now, to put this quad back up in the air after the 'blow of 95'. >Terry >KI7M Merry Christmas to you Terry! (_(__, (_(__, (_(__, (_(__, /~._ /~._ /~._ /~._ , _ __ / /~~~ , _ __ / /~~~ , _ __ / /~~~ , _ __ / /~~~ `( )---))------`( )---))------`( )---))------`( )---)) /\~~~`\ /\~~~`\ /\~~~`\ /\~~~`\ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * S E A S O N ' S G R E E T I N G S T O Y O U & Y O U R S! ! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Gary - KG0ZP From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:58 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to All Date: 23 Dec 1995 15:26:24 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 3 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bholg$crs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bhdt3$3ns@news1.inlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Merry Christmas, Tom W8JI From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:59 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!cobia.gulf.net!ppp58 From: breeze@gulf.net (MHM) Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question Date: 22 Dec 1995 04:15:43 GMT Organization: The Gulf Coast Internet Company Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4bdbdf$d2t@cobia.gulf.net> References: <4a7j00$nt1@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp58.gulf.net Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25117 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17927 In article , Chad Payne wrote: >> I just saw some antennas at Radio Shack that look just like cell phone >> antennas (coupled through the glass). That looks perfect if the >> quality is reasonable. They are specifically listed as CB antennas. >> Does anyone know how well these work? Would performance be close to >> the whip, somewhere in between, or about the same as the flexible one? >> Any comments... >These cell phone look alike antennas work but not very well... Concur with the above. As a general rule of thumb, the more physical space the antenna occupies, the better. As long as its impedance matches. If it doesn't, good buy tranmitter. The antennas in question use a matching network to keep from toasting the transmitter. Most of your power is wasted in the transformation. Have fun! :-) breeze@gulf.net | Poor planning on your part | does not constitute a crisis | on my part... From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:00 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question Date: 22 Dec 1995 12:23:41 GMT Organization: IONet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4be80d$8fo@ionews.ionet.net> References: <4a7j00$nt1@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> <4bdbdf$d2t@cobia.gulf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: osip08.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: breeze@gulf.net Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25123 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17928 breeze@gulf.net (MHM) wrote: As a general rule of thumb, the more physical space >the antenna occupies, the better. I agree As long as its impedance matches. If it >doesn't, good buy tranmitter. I disagree >The antennas in question use a matching network to keep from toasting the >transmitter. Most of your power is wasted in the transformation. Have fun! > I disagree. The impedance match has nothing to do with the efficiency of an antenna. Actually on shortend antennas except under certain circumstances the greater the mismatch the better the antenna. Just compare a Hustler to a bugcatcher without a matching network. After all a dummy load is a perfect match. The greatest misconception in ham radio is that SWR (and bandwith) is a measure if how good an antenna is. The power lost is a function of the ratio of radiation resistance to ground resistance and resistances in the antenna itself. 73 Hank WA5JRH From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:01 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: zandor1@aol.com (ZANDOR1) Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question Date: 24 Dec 1995 21:46:46 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 2 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bl3am$av4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4be80d$8fo@ionews.ionet.net> Reply-To: zandor1@aol.com (ZANDOR1) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25197 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18007 If that is true about the SWR then what is the most important thing for a mobile antenna if not the SWR matching????? From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:03 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!bjkpma Organization: University of Maine System Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 18:35:28 EST From: Message-ID: <95359.183528BJKPMA@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question References: <4a7j00$nt1@dub-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> <4bdbdf$d2t@cobia.gulf.net> Lines: 2 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25207 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18024 I've used the cellular-phone type cb radio antenna, and it really, didn't work so well...the only good thing was that the antenna cord didnt have to pass through the window.... From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:04 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 21:24:16 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bdtv4$n7d@crash.microserve.net> References: <7558.819500179@safety.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17926 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22909 turner@safety.ICS.UCI.EDU (Clark Savage Turner WA3JPG) wrote: >Also, I think I recall someone on the antenna group stating that the >"ultimate transmatch" design had one of the capacitors doing >something silly.... There is a two ganged capacitor that is doing >something useless? In "Reflections", Maxwell states that the lower portion of the split stator capacitor (which shunts the transmitter) contributes nothing to the matching function. He goes on to say that the same is true of the shunt output capacitors in the Johnson Matchbox, and that they can be lifted off ground without affecting the match. In other words, according to Maxwell, these capacitors serve no useful purpose. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:05 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions Date: 23 Dec 1995 09:26:31 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 33 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bh3in$65a@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4bdtv4$n7d@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4bdtv4$n7d@crash.microserve.net>, jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: > >In "Reflections", Maxwell states that the lower portion of the split >stator capacitor (which shunts the transmitter) contributes nothing to >the matching function. He goes on to say that the same is true of the >shunt output capacitors in the Johnson Matchbox, and that they can be >lifted off ground without affecting the match. > >In other words, according to Maxwell, these capacitors serve no useful >purpose. > >73, >Jack WB3U Hi Jack, I've been meaning to pull my Matchbox apart and measure that. I suspect that is true to some extent because I build single ended link coupled tuners using a series cap to the load and a shunt cap across the coil. Neither is a differential cap. The ciruit works well on almost all loads. I know if unhook the section he is talking about in the Murch (McCoy style) tuner very little changes, but it does change a tiny bit. I suspect a better statement is the metal plates could be put to better use somewhere else in the tuner, like the cabinet or another cap.....hi. Merry Xmas, Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:06 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!meaddata!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions Date: 26 Dec 1995 08:52:19 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 53 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4boumj$821@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4boks8$6kr@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4boks8$6kr@crash.microserve.net>, jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: > >If I use a coil that is capable of covering 160 - 10 meters, there >will be a large number of turns shorted out when it's used on the >higher bands. I've found references to the undesirability of doing >this, but no specific guidelines. Is there any way I can determine >beforehand what the limit is regarding the maximum number of turns >that can be shorted out along the coil? I assume the problem is that >the shorted turns reduce the Q, thereby increasing losses. (?) Hi Jack, Shoorting turns isn't a big problem with air wound coils, as a matter of fact it is usually a necessity. Use a space wound coil. A longer coil small diameter coil is better than a short large diameter coil when the turns are shorted. And try to pick a switch that only shorts the tap being used and ONE other tap. Let me explain why. Let's say you use a coil that has a switch common connected to the hot end, and taps progressively closer to the link. As the switch is moved closer to the smallest inductance tap, the amount of coil hanging in the middle of the switch contacts increases. Eventually stray capacitance in the center of the area between the common of the switch and the tap selected tunes the many turns between those point to resonance in a Ham band like 15 or ten meters. So when the main tap is on ten or 15 the coil often has a spurious resonance near the same band. That resonance either causes the tuner to "quit tuning" or arc over. What I do is add another contact to short the middle of the coil out to the common and hold it shorted as the contact is moved to the higher band positions. There are other ways to do it, but this way minimizes losses. My circuit isn't so complicated. I was thinking of publishing it and not providing details so I could sell kits . Seriously, just link couple to the coil with a tapped link, and parallel tune the coil with one cap and series tune the load with another. It tunes real smooth, and no need to move a tap around for different load impedances. >Incidentally, there's another practical problem with the "balun first" >concept that I hadn't thought of before. Namely, a local SW or BCB >station can induce significant common-mode voltages on a long run of >transmission line. The balun doesn't do a thing to discourage these >signals from entering the receiver, neither will the balanced Pi or T. >Only a magnetic (low-capacitance) link will solve this problem. A choke balun does. But then we are back to the arguement that moving a choke balun does virtually nothing to improve things, so it might as well be on the antenna side! Hi. 73 Tom From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:07 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!cs.utep.edu!rgfn.epcc.edu!ae351 From: ae351@rgfn.epcc.edu (Joe G Wesley) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Need help portable 2M/440 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 04:42:01 GMT Organization: The Rio Grande Free-Net, El Paso Community College, El Paso, TX Message-ID: <1995Dec23.044201.16625@rgfn.epcc.edu> Lines: 8 Can anyone give me some idea as to a homebrew 2M/440 antenna that I can take camping? Can a J Pole be made of that combination? If you can give me some help, please email jwesley@tenet.edu thanks, joe From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:08 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news1.digital.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!sloth.swcp.com!usenet From: n5zgt@swcp.com (Brian Mileshosky) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Need help portable 2M/440 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:45:39 GMT Organization: Southwest Cyberport Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4bhm8s$gvo@sloth.swcp.com> References: <1995Dec23.044201.16625@rgfn.epcc.edu> Reply-To: n5zgt@swcp.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp24.swcp.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 ae351@rgfn.epcc.edu (Joe G Wesley) wrote: >Can anyone give me some idea as to a homebrew 2M/440 antenna that >I can take camping? Can a J Pole be made of that combination? >If you can give me some help, please email jwesley@tenet.edu >thanks, >joe You bet it can. I don't know how though, but I have seen it done. Also, look in QST for the company Antennas West. They sell what are called "Pico-J's". It is just a J-Pole built out of twin-lead, and they make a dual-band version. I have just the 2 meter version, and it is a champ! Good luck! Best of 73 and Merry Christmas, Brian, N5ZGT... ________________________________________________________________________ Boy Scouts of America Amateur Radio J.A.S.M. - Troop 41 Call: N5ZGT Albuquerque, NM Packet: N5ZGT @ KC5IZT.ALBQ.NM.USA.NA Great Southwest Council Internet: n5zgt@swcp.com O.A. Lodge 66 ________________________________________________________________________ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:09 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.gte.net!news From: "Adam G. Lottes" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Need help portable 2M/440 Date: 25 Dec 1995 17:08:07 GMT Organization: GTE Intelligent Network Services, GTE INS Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4bmlpn$c5i@duey.gte.net> References: <1995Dec23.044201.16625@rgfn.epcc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dfw70005.gte.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22KIT (Windows; U; 16bit) To: ae351@rgfn.epcc.edu My J pole looks like this | - | | || | ||440 | | | | | 144/147 total length | | | | || | || | || | || - Standard coax feed at the base. 440 goes up through the 2 meter tube and exits through a hole at the base of the 440 for a standard coax feed. 2 meters does,t even know 440 is there. Sorry Don't know recall dimensions, but are standard sizes. By the way antenna works great. At the top of a 50' tower normally work 30-60 miles. Hope this helps. George NF9D From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:10 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news.net99.net!news.localnet.com!usenet From: "Peter C. McNulty" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,re Subject: Re: New Ham Web Site with Information Content Date: 25 Dec 1995 16:53:54 GMT Organization: LocalNet Corporation Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4bmkv2$6d5@prometheus.localnet.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp11.conn.localnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:medcalf-1412952119580001@idts1lw19.idir.net Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18015 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13336 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:23055 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12367 rec.radio.amateur.misc:96046 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32335 rec.radio.amateur.space:6015 Also see WEB Site at for interesting Ham Radio Links.URL:http://www.localnet.com/~wa1sov/ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:11 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.accessone.com!news From: vbook@vbook.com (Ed Mitchell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,re Subject: Re: New Ham Web Site with Information Content Date: 27 Dec 1995 22:27:56 GMT Organization: Virtual Publishing Co. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4bsh9c$ft9@news.accessone.com> References: <4bmkv2$6d5@prometheus.localnet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vbook.accessone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18067 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13357 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:23128 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12399 rec.radio.amateur.misc:96136 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32348 rec.radio.amateur.space:6028 In article <4bmkv2$6d5@prometheus.localnet.com>, wa1sov@localnet.com says... > >Also see WEB Site at for interesting Ham Radio >Links.URL:http://www.localnet.com/~wa1sov/ > > Check out Ham Radio Online at http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm Newsletters, Feature Stories, Real-time solar and radio propagation conditions , real-time disaster communications news (world wide earthquake, volcanic and severe weather reports). In short, real content, not just pointers to hyperspace. 73, Ed, KF7VY ------------------------ personal email to vbook@vbook.com Visit Ham Radio Online, it's free, at http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:13 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!news From: o10022@a81.corp.mot.com Subject: Noisy Mobile Antenna ... suggestions? Organization: MOTOROLA Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:31:06 GMT Message-ID: <1995Dec27.223106.27144@schbbs.mot.com> Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account) Nntp-Posting-Host: 129.188.159.81 Lines: 21 Probably this is a problem for which a solution is well-known, except to relative newcomers such as I am. I revently mounted a Larsen KulGlas antenna, 2m/70cm, about 29" long, near the outer end of the rear-facing window of my full-sized pickup. Most of it of course extends higher than the roof line. At any speed of more than about 30mph, the antenna emits a very audible and annoying "wind noise". I've been told (have not seen) that a similar problem, with some standard thin auto antennas (fender-mounted), was solved simply by coating the antennas with vinyl. So, I'm wondering whether covering this antenna with heat-shrink (and shrunk) tubing, or something similar, would help. By the way, this antenna does have the typical spiral coil near its center. If anyone knows whether that would work, or has a better idea, I'd appreciate some good advice. Thanks and 73, Tony KC7HDT From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:13 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Outbacker Perth Plus Date: 26 Dec 1995 01:32:45 GMT Organization: IONet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4bnjbt$8tg@ionews.ionet.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: osip90.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: wcollins@mindspring.com wcollins@mindspring.com (William Collins) wrote: Would a multi-band dipole and tuner be more >effective at home that the OB? A multi-band dipole would be far mor effective. You can't fight physics, more antenna is better antenna. The outbacker is one of the poorer mobile antennas. It you have space limitations and insist on using a mobile antenna use a bugcatcher. I think you will find the outbacker almost unusable on 80 meters. 73 Hank WA5JRH From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:14 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!matlock.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!user-168-121-69-102.dialup.mindspring.com!user From: wcollins@mindspring.com (William Collins) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Outbacker Perth Plus Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 19:22:02 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 15 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-69-102.dialup.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.1.5 Hi everyone, Išve just received an ICOM 706 and heard about the OB Perth Plus which would cover HF plus 6 and 2 meters. Does anyone have any experience with this antenna? Would I need an antenna tuner with the 706 and OB PP? Also, can this antenna be put in service at home? What kind of counterpoise would be effective for the antenna? I will probably mount it on our balcony if I use it as a base. Would a multi-band dipole and tuner be more effective at home that the OB? Any comments would be helpful, thanks in advance. -- Regards, William Collins Atlanta, GA wcollins@mindspring.com From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:15 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: drted@ix.netcom.com(Ted Viens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas Date: 24 Dec 1995 05:38:03 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4biovr$t0s@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> References: <4b9jgi$1gjs@msunews.cl.msu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-hou1-20.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Dec 23 9:38:03 PM PST 1995 In <4b9jgi$1gjs@msunews.cl.msu.edu> flegler@pilot.msu.edu (Stanley L. Flegler) writes: > >There was a recent posting where gray colored sunlight resistant PVC was >mentioned. I was not aware of this material. Is normal white PVC >subject to failure from sunlight? If so, what time frame and reduction >in strength are we talking about. PVC is mentioned several times in the >new ARRL antenna book, but I see no mention of sunlight. I have made >numerous things out of white PVC including trap covers and some supports >and now I'm concerned. 73 Stan K8RPA > I wouldn't bother losing any sleep over this. There are thousands of feet of white PVC water pipes that have been exposed to sunlight for years and there are no reports of mass floodings. My real purpose in responding is that my local Home Depot was selling the grey PVC electrical conduit cheaper in the electrical section than the white PVC in the plumbing section. So its like you can have your cake and eat it too... -- Bye... Ted.. Deep in the Heart of the Armpits of Houston, Texas... From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:16 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!pacifier!mac1.pacifier.com!user From: gsnow@pacifier.com (Gary Snow) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Quad Antenna Design Software? Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:52:38 -0800 Organization: Are you kidding??? Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <4avfkb$hmo@sparky.midwest.net> <4b56i5$jlo@latte.cici.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac1.pacifier.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0 In article <4b56i5$jlo@latte.cici.com>, richesop@cici.com (Peter D.Richeson) wrote: > I have used AO for several ant's 3 quads (Have built 2 and both seem to > work) and 3 Jpolls. The two 2M versions went together with no tweking. The > 440 need some adjusting. > > AO is easy to use and it gives you a pix of the ant which is nice. And just where do you get this little gem? I've looked in all of the archive sites that I can think of. Gary --- gsnow@pacifier.com <-----====()====-----> http://www.pacifier.com/~gsnow/ Vancouver, WA's On-Ramp to the Information SuperHighway (360) 693-0325 telnet to "pods.pacifier.com" (press return 2x) or dial the above to register From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:17 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!pooh.freenet.mb.ca!winnie.freenet.mb.ca!snp346 From: Jason Piush Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Radio Shack discone antenna -- help Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:10:54 -0600 Organization: Blue Sky FreeNet of Manitoba Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: winnie.freenet.mb.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all.... One of my gifts this year was a RS discone antenna. I have heard that the reception under 100 mhz leaves a little to be desired because the antenna lacks an element on the top. My question is as follows....does anyone have knowledge of how I could mount an element on the top of the antenna to improve reception below 100 mhz? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. ______________________________________________________________________________ | Jason Piush | Winnipeg, Canada | RESERVED FOR FURTHER DEVELOPEMENT snp346@winnie.Freenet.mb.ca | ____________________________|_________________________________________________ From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:19 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!istar.net!news1.ottawa.istar.net!fonorola!news.ottawa.istar.net!news.achilles.net!usenet From: Mel Massia Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Repeater Antennas Date: 22 Dec 1995 16:35:54 GMT Organization: Achilles Internet Services, Ottawa, ON Lines: 45 Message-ID: <4bempa$fsi@centaur.achilles.net> References: <4aacf6$ruh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4aic2h$rql@news.service.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p26-annex1.achilles.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) dbwillia@uci.edu (Brian Williams) wrote: >In article <4aacf6$ruh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jerryke7ua@aol.com says... >> >>Repeater Operators: >> >>Noise Problem >> >>A Hustler G-6 was used for several years, but was damaged by the wind and >>replaced by the Cushcraft stacked dipoles about a year ago. Great care was >>taken to make sure the connections to the phasing harness was sound, >>taped, and Scotch Coated, but a problem has developed. > >>Anyone have experience with the Comet or the Diamond antennas (fiberglass) >>as a repeater antenna. I'm sure the best approach would be to use a >>commercial grade antenna, but due to limited funds, we're considering >>alternatives. > >>Your comments and experience are welcomed. Thanks again. > >>Jerry KE7UA - Livonia, MI >>EX - WA8HHM, WB4QVD, WB8LNF & DL4PY >>Requested on behalf of my brothers, WB8NJS - Denny & K8ARE - Nelson. >>147.225 located in Bethel, Ohio (Clermont County). > >Jerry, I have no suggestions for your problem mentioned at the start >of your message, however, I can answer your question about using >Diamond and Comet antennas as a repeater antenna. They are not >as rugged as SOME of the commercial antennas, but if you are not >in an extremely windy location, they will hold up nicely. Mine >(a Comet) has been in service for 2. One problem showed up in the >base load section and was repaired by Comet. The only other disadvantage >IMO is the lack of any downward tilt in radiation pattern which >exists in SOME of the commercial antennas. This can make a difference >when on a high mountain top repeater location. >(I know what it's like to be shy on funds.) >Anyway, good luck on your installation. I'm using the 17'6" (approx) >Comet and a friend of mine is using Diamonds version of the same thing. > >73, Brian N6ZAU > Jerry, name here is Mel....we have had a Comet dual-band rptr ant up for 2 and half yaers now with no problems...both rptrs are functioning just FB. Well that's abt all the words of wisdom I have to offer... 73, Mel VE3OJN From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:20 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnews.wa.com!nwfocus.wa.com!calvino.alaska.net!nntp.alaska.net!usenet From: Richard Dowling Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Sailboat antennas Date: 27 Dec 1995 03:48:08 GMT Organization: Internet Alaska Inc. Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4bqflo$94p@byatt.alaska.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rpd.alaska.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Does anyone have experience with HF antennas on sailboats? I'm wondering particularly about what length of backstay works the best, 1/4, 5/8 wave or what? Thanks Richard From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:21 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: rhyolite95@aol.com (Rhyolite95) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: SEEKING 50-75 ft self supporting TOWERS Date: 27 Dec 1995 02:10:29 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 4 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bqrh5$q7p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: Reply-To: rhyolite95@aol.com (Rhyolite95) I am looking for a 50 to 75 foot self supporting tower in the south georgia north florida area. Reply to Rhyolite95@aol.com From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:21 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1!ts00-ind-24 From: mai@iquest.net (Patrick Croft) Subject: SEEKING ROHN 45/55 TOWERS X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ts00-ind-24.iquest.net Message-ID: Keywords: TOWERS Sender: news@iquest.net (News Admin) Organization: IQuest Network Services X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 16:09:10 GMT Lines: 11 I'm hunting sections of Rohn 45 and/or 55 towers, and the various hardware acc essories that go with them. Additionally, I'd be interested in buying a Dick Webber (RTS) rotating tower system for Roh n 25,45,55. With all the swap nets, corners of garages holding 'spares', and plans that ge t changed, keep this WTB in mind when you hear someone looking to sell! Thanks! WB9IQI - Patrick Croft Daytime Tel:(317)257-6811 Fax:(317)257-1590 email:mai@iquest.net From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet From: Rob Bellville Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Short Helical (<2ft) for 27 MHz Date: 26 Dec 1995 19:20:37 GMT Organization: Web Page Creation Services Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4bphu5$oob@caesar.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: col18.online.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit) Hi! I need to build 15 short helicals for short range communications via CB Radio. These antenna will need to be mounted to the back of the radio for neighborhood crime watch communications of < 1 mile. Any ideas? I don't want to buy 15 antennas at Radio Shack since its coming out of my pocket. BTW, I am looking for old CB Radios to donate to this group. If you've got an old CB laying around please consider helping us out. Thanks! - Rob -- .......................................................... Rob Bellville, N1NTE PO Box 515 bellvill@ultranet.com Millbury, MA 01527 .......................................................... http://www.ultranet.com/~bellvill/ .......................................................... From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:23 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!news.rcinet.com!sally.dma.org!millersg From: millersg@dma.org (Steve Miller) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Stuff to build YAGI's with. Date: 20 Dec 1995 16:29:28 GMT Organization: Dayton Microcomputer Association; Dayton, Ohio, USA Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4b9dl8$8s4@sally.dma.org> References: <00001fea+00001967@msn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dmapub.dma.org In article <00001fea+00001967@msn.com>, Rick Ruhl wrote: >Fellow hams: > >Can anyone give me advice on where to find the following parts. I'm >trying to build a 20 meter short yagi from the 1978 handbook, and no >one seems to know what I'm talking about or where I can get it. > >1. 1-1/8 in dia Plexiglas rod (for winding the coils on) sources or >1995-96 options are appreciated. > >2. 140 pf Variable Capacitor or a 1995-6 equvilant. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If no one knows what you're talking about - you're asking the wrong people! Go to a local hamfest and check the flea market. -- Steve Miller WD8IXE millersg@dmapub.dma.org From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:24 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!vulcan.netdepot.com!news From: jbohls@netdepot.com (John M. Bohls) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: test Date: 25 Dec 1995 18:26:33 GMT Lines: 2 Message-ID: <4bmqcp$7p9@vulcan.netdepot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ioh2.netdepot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.4 hello, this is a test. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:25 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!idir.net!usenet From: Ken Johnson Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna Date: 22 Dec 1995 15:11:38 GMT Organization: Kantronics, Inc. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4behra$mnc@sequoia.idir.net> References: <4ba1jn$n0e@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4bd2m0$qs2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: port17.idtslw1.idir.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit) I have to agree with Merv - probably the *best* all-round aerial I have played with was a 160 meter full-wave loop. It's easy and cheap to put up, and about the only guidelines to installation are fairly intuitive - get it as high as practical (given the constraints of your particular location), and as "open" as possible - a circle being "most open". I have had this aerial up several times at various locations and it always is a fun one to use. Large loops do not have the wild excursions in impedence that non-loops exhibit, and can be easily matched. I fed mine with 450 ohm window line, and also have used 300 ohm TV line. I always fed it in the corner closest to the shack (practical) and ran the feedline to a 4:1 balun (happened to have one). The coax from the balun plugged into the back of the FT-1000 and the internal tuner took care of the rest. Again, not much is SUPER critical here - hang the wires in a triangle, square, trapazoid, and probably at least 20 ft in the air, or whatever your QTH will allow. Higher will lower the radiation angles, but MOST of my rag-chewing is local anyway (up to 500 miles or so). Real low noise :-) and no fuss operation make this aerial a winner! From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:26 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!news.mit.edu!cph From: cph@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Chris Hanson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna Date: 22 Dec 1995 20:02:52 GMT Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology Lines: 24 Sender: cph Message-ID: References: <4ba1jn$n0e@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4bd2m0$qs2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4behra$mnc@sequoia.idir.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-cph.lcs.mit.edu In-reply-to: Msg of 22 Dec 1995 15:11:38 GMT from Ken Johnson X-Newsreader: Edwin [version 3.90, MIT Scheme Release 7.4.2] From: Ken Johnson Date: 22 Dec 1995 15:11:38 GMT probably the *best* all-round aerial I have played with was a 160 meter full-wave loop. I'll second this, although mine is an 80-meter loop (ladder-line feed). I've got it up about 25-30 ft. It's not the best transmitting antenna, but for receiving it's wonderful. I work traffic nets, and I'm usually able to copy everyone on the net, even when they can't copy one another (I have a good receiver, which doesn't hurt). This is especially true this time of year when 80 is so poor for traffic nets. For transmitting, I'd have to choose the antenna at our club station, W1MX. This is a 160-meter inverted-vee, with the apex at 250 ft, fed with open wire. When we fire that up on 80, it seems to get out very well. However, it's a really noisy site, and the antenna picks up BC AM stations much too well -- enough to overload the front end of any receiver we've plugged in to it, even with BC-band filter and 20db attenuator -- so on receive that antenna is pretty poor. At another site, it might be fine. Chris K8SH From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:27 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!rohrwerk From: rohrwerk@netcom.com (John Seboldt) Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <4b194o$cnr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <819474316.6719@pinetree.microserve.com> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 05:09:42 GMT Lines: 16 Sender: rohrwerk@netcom8.netcom.com In the mid 70's I lived in a college tower dorm -- 8 floors hugging the edge of a bluff, with about 4 floors above the upper edge and 4 below. I was on the 7th floor, and had about 100 feet of wire out my window down to a tree below -- a top-fed sloper, I guess. My trusty SB-102 put out a big signal on 75 meters and other bands. I even used it to shut up a noisy neighbor's stereo -- making some CW test transmissions on 10 meters. They heard the thumps, scratched their heads, and eventually turned it off! : John Seboldt rohrwerk@netcom.com / CW: It don't mean a thing : K0JD... Minneapolis, MN / if it ain't got that swing! : My R2/T2 station described in / Di dah, di dah, di dah, di dah... > http://www.lehigh.edu/lists/qrp-l/k0jd/index.html < From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:28 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!lily.redrose.net!john From: Curt Sanders Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: TV antenna & tuning Date: 27 Dec 1995 04:23:52 GMT Organization: a Digital Internet AlphaServer Site Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4bqhoo$tu8@lily.redrose.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: l32.redrose.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K) X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna#4bmkv2$6d5@prometheus.localnet.com Any experience using a TV antenna for 6m. SSB with a proper tuner? ******************************************************** * "There is nothing constant but change." ‹ Heraclitus * * --- * * N3TLJ@WA3KXG.FN10RE.PA.USA.NA (Amateur Radio) * * Reunion Users Group (genealogy) * Hershey Apple Core * ******************************************************** From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:29 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!udev.ci.salinas.ca.us!usenet From: Norm Pritchett Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: TVI situation. Suggestions? Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 07:41:46 -0800 Organization: Valley Christian Academy of Salinas, CA Lines: 10 Message-ID: <30DD74BA.697E@ci.salinas.ca.us> References: <4bc5fo$bir@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: koala.ci.salinas.ca.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) I want to echo W8JI Tom's comment that we need a little bit more information about what you are seeing. But tell us this, do you have any kind of filtering on the AC power cord to your television set and all the appliances (VCR's, cable TV boxes, etc...) that are connected to it? RF energy from your antenna or transmission line can enter appliances through the AC power lines. ---- Norm Pritchett, AC6DF Salinas, CA From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:30 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: TVI situation. Suggestions? FIXED! Date: 24 Dec 1995 19:16:40 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4bk8uo$3vl@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> References: <4bc5fo$bir@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <30DD74BA.697E@ci.salinas.ca.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sd11-13.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Dec 24 11:16:40 AM PST 1995 Thanks to everyone who helped me sort out this problem. I learned alot about tracking down and fixing TVI. I forgot to mention that the TV's are all on cable. Several people told me that TVI on cable is a different issue than non cable. I read in the Interference book that cable preamps can cause problems. Then I remembered that I put one of those in the wall near the service entrance (oops!). When I disconnected the pre-amp in the line, all interference vanished! I forgot about this preamp becaused I installed it months ago during the summer when I wasn't using my rig at all and cable reception was bad due to construction in our area. Again, thanks alot guys! :-) 73 de Dan KE6LBX From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:31 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news From: Tfugate@pop.uky.edu (Terry Fugate) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching? Date: 22 Dec 1995 13:55:28 GMT Organization: IT Lines: 25 Message-ID: <4bedcg$78a@service2.uky.edu> References: <4ba7f7$4cd@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.163.13.56 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6 In article <4ba7f7$4cd@cloner2.ix.netcom.com>, scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) says: > > >I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the >shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to >the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI. > >What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack >which is 75ohms (i think) > >Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit? > >73 de KE6LBX The other respondant is right, just use an adaptor(s) connect the rf into you tv. I used a litle panasonic 4"bw that used an 1/8" earphone style connector for the antenna in. The Radio Shack diskcone works ok for tv, but you will get bad multipath(ghosts) from the omni-directional pattern. BTW A friend hooked his vcr out into his diskcone one night, and we walked around with my BW tv(takes about 8 D cells) and I was surprized how uniform the transmit pattern was. max range of about 400'. Please don't bother to flame. It was a one shot experiment, years ago. Post your results. Good luck From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:32 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.av.qnet.com!ibbs!kb6ibb From: kb6ibb@ibbs.av.org (Jeff Stillinger) Subject: Re: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Organization: Coffee Radio Difference Committee Message-ID: References: <4ba7f7$4cd@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> <4bag38$809@murrow.corp.sgi.com> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 04:42:47 GMT Lines: 36 Jim Fellows (jimf@corp.sgi.com) wrote: : scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) wrote: : > : >I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the : >shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to : >the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI. : > : >What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack : >which is 75ohms (i think) : > : >Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit? : > : >73 de KE6LBX : Impedence matching in a discone can be done by varying the angle of the skir t. : For 50 ohms the angle is 60 degrees, I will need to look up what it should b e : for 75 ohms assuming you're using coax. : But if you have a pre-made discone, then the mismatch will only result in a : nominal 1.5:1 VSWR (the SWR for 75 - 50 ohm mismatch). : This should not make a much difference for a TV receiving antenna. Like a 1.5:1 VSWR is bad. :-) Like having a perfect match for receivers is going to make much of a difference. Like .5 db is going to make any diff. :-) -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB kb6ibb@ibbs.av.org PSC Box 3429 kb6ibb@red-eft.la.ca.us Edwards AFB, CA 93524 +1 805 258 7303 8N1 Flight Test Center, crashing aircraft so you don't have too. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:33 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.ramlink.net!news From: subich@ramlink.net (Joe Subich) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching? Date: 24 Dec 1995 04:59:19 GMT Organization: RAMLink Internet Access Service Lines: 38 Message-ID: <4bimn7$k25@ram2.ramlink.net> References: <4ba7f7$4cd@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> <4bag38$809@murrow.corp.sgi.com> Reply-To: subich@ramlink.net (Joe Subich) NNTP-Posting-Host: hun26.ramlink.net X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 > scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) wrote: > > I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the > shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to > the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI. > > What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack > which is 75ohms (i think) > > Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit? > Don't worry about the impedence matching - neither the antenna impedence or the imput impedence of the TV receivers are that critical. With or without impedence matching I don't expect the discone will work very well for TV monitoring. The vast majority of TV stations ar HORIZONTALLY polarized. FCC rules specify power/ERP in the horizontal plane and although a relatively few stations have gone to circular or eliptical polarization the vast majority have not. The discone is vertically polarized. The polarization mismatch is approximately 20 dB in practice on direct signals (signals that have not been reflected/refracted from the environment - either the ionosphere or buildings/terrain). Being an omni-antenna, the discone is susceptible to multi-path due to reflections (and particularly sensitive since the majority of the reflected signals will have a higher vertical component than the direct wave) ... the multi-path signals show up as "ghosts" in the video portion of the TV signal and as distortion in the audio. 73, ... Joe Subich, AD8I Chief Engineer, WOWK-TV Charleston/Huntington, WV (subich@ramlink.net) From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:34 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews From: n6rhl@ix.netcom.com (David Dean) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Using Same Ant for Scanner & 2mtrs Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 16:00:10 GMT Organization: Keep-In-Touch Communications Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4bjt9p$8pr@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-den7-25.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Dec 24 7:57:45 AM PST 1995 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I am wanting to use one dualband antenna for both my scanner and dualband radio. Is there a device on the market that will allow this to work? If not on the market, has anyone ever designed something that would do this. This will be for a mobile installation. Thanks in Advance. 73's Dave N6RHL David Dean N6RHL Keep-In-Touch Communications Internet Addresses N6RHL@ix.netcom.com (primary) N6RHL@sinnfree.sinnfree.org From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:35 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!news.mindlink.net!news From: Jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca (jim pestell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: weather maps Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 00:16:59 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4bi6gb$lou@fountain.mindlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: line067.nwm.mindlink.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations sending pictures of the earth from space? So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there? Thanks. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:36 1995 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!charles1 From: charles1@netcom.com (charles copeland) Subject: Re: weather maps Message-ID: Cc: Jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <4bi6gb$lou@fountain.mindlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 05:19:58 GMT Lines: 18 Sender: charles1@netcom8.netcom.com In article <4bi6gb$lou@fountain.mindlink.net>, jim pestell wrote: >Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations >sending pictures of the earth from space? >So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there? >Thanks. > Sounds like you have got the right frequency. Its the Navy broadcasting those charts. AT 0000Z they broadcast a typed schedule. Mainly its charts, but several times a day they send high resolution satellite pictures that will blow your mind. Some are 1/4 earth, others are entire earth. Last I can remember, pics broadcast 15 minutes past every hour, but its been a while. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:37 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!inn From: Jim Fellows Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: What the heck is C-Load ? Date: 26 Dec 1995 19:00:00 GMT Organization: is highly overrated, I prefer chaos. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <4bpgng$2gt@murrow.corp.sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zoinks.corp.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22) X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna Howdy! Ok, so I'm down at the old H.R.O. looking at the Comet and Diamond VHF/UHF bas e antennas wondering about just what is inside. In addition to all the Kanji? o n the packages there is some description as to what the antenna(s) are. Like 2m 5/8 wave C-Load; 70cm dual 5/8 wave C-Load. In addition to wondering just what's inside, I'm thinking about the references to C-Load. I get myself home and look in the Antenna Handbook; look in an old regular Handbook; look in 3-4 antenna design textbooks from classes in school. Nothing at all about this. Wondering if this refers to a capacitively loaded antenna? Any answers? Just feeling like dummy load. Jim -- It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear. The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!! KF6AGJ Green Acres *IS* the place to be! jimf@corp.sgi.com From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:39 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!reeve.research.aa.wl.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens From: buydens@duke.usask.ca (Brian Buydens) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: What the heck is C-Load ? Date: 27 Dec 1995 04:43:10 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 41 Message-ID: <4bqisu$rg9@tribune.usask.ca> References: <4bpgng$2gt@murrow.corp.sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Here is a wild guess. Perhaps C-Load refers to center load. I think that is when they put all the "stuff" to electrically lengthen the antenna in the center of the whip. Brian. Jim Fellows (jimf@corp.sgi.com) wrote: : Howdy! : Ok, so I'm down at the old H.R.O. looking at the Comet and Diamond VHF/UHF b ase : antennas wondering about just what is inside. In addition to all the Kanji? on : the packages there is some description as to what the antenna(s) are. Like 2m : 5/8 wave C-Load; 70cm dual 5/8 wave C-Load. : In addition to wondering just what's inside, I'm thinking about the referenc es : to C-Load. I get myself home and look in the Antenna Handbook; look in an o ld : regular Handbook; look in 3-4 antenna design textbooks from classes in schoo l. : Nothing at all about this. : Wondering if this refers to a capacitively loaded antenna? : Any answers? : Just feeling like dummy load. : Jim : -- : It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear. : The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!! KF6AGJ : Green Acres *IS* the place to be! jimf@corp.sgi.c om -- Brian Buydens There was a young poet named Dan, Department of Computing Services Whose poetry never would scan. University of Saskatchewan When told this was so, email: Brian.Buydens@usask.ca He said, "Yes, I know. VE5RDV From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: llpick@aol.com (LL pick) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials Date: 25 Dec 1995 21:11:31 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 5 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bnlkj$rp6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4aq20c$hu5@ncar.ucar.edu> Reply-To: llpick@aol.com (LL pick) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com run 4 or 6 or 8 elevated radials tuned to 1/4 wave. eg 246 divided by freq. mghz. times vl.of wire or coax .eg: 246 ddivided by freq. times .98 ( velocity factor for wire) Also elevate and insulate ur antenna from the ground.Feed the antenna w/ center cond. and the radials w/ shield. or vice versa. good luck. N9RCN From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:40 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet From: Danie Brynard Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Why free space pathloss ? Date: 26 Dec 1995 16:15:06 GMT Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4bp72a$5f4@hawk.pix.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: net-0.pta.pix.za Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) Please excuse me fellow radio hams, but can I ask a very stupid question ? Why is the free space path loss different for different frequencies ? Thus every time you double the frequency the pathloss increase by 6dB. I know what the mathematical formulae say but can somebody just give a plain gutfeel common sense answer for this dummy ? PS I know about 1/R^2 loss, Pl=32.45+20log(km)+20log(MHz), etc etc From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:42 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk From: "Anthony R. Gold" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Why free space pathloss ? Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 17:04:34 GMT Organization: Microvest Limited, London Lines: 13 Message-ID: <819997474snz@microvst.demon.co.uk> References: <4bp72a$5f4@hawk.pix.za> <4bp63f$gqo@mycroft.westnet.com> Reply-To: tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.demon.co.uk In article <4bp63f$gqo@mycroft.westnet.com> lgreco@westnet.com "Luigi Greco" writes: > It should not be frequency dependent, at least in the far-field regime. On the contrary, the formula asked about is only true in the far field. Regards, -- Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM email: tgold@panix.com tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:43 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.westnet.com!westnet.com!lgreco From: lgreco@westnet.com (Luigi Greco) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Why free space pathloss ? Date: 26 Dec 1995 15:58:39 GMT Organization: WestNet Internet Services Lines: 26 Message-ID: <4bp63f$gqo@mycroft.westnet.com> References: <4bp72a$5f4@hawk.pix.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: westnet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Danie, It should not be frequency dependent, at least in the far-field regime. When I think of free-space, I think of that vacuum between galaxies. However, all bets are off when talking about terrestrial "free-space" where you have to worry about atmosphere, ionosphere, water, ground, buildings, cute blondes, etc. Then there's is frequency dependent path loss. Luigi N2CWV Danie Brynard (danie.brynard@pixie.co.za) wrote: : Please excuse me fellow radio hams, but can I ask a very stupid : question ? : Why is the free space path loss different for different frequencies : ? Thus every time you double the frequency the pathloss increase by : 6dB. I know what the mathematical formulae say but can somebody : just give a plain gutfeel common sense answer for this dummy ? : PS I know about 1/R^2 loss, Pl=32.45+20log(km)+20log(MHz), etc etc From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:44 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk From: "Anthony R. Gold" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Why free space pathloss ? Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 16:29:38 GMT Organization: Microvest Limited, London Lines: 42 Message-ID: <819995378snz@microvst.demon.co.uk> References: <4bp72a$5f4@hawk.pix.za> Reply-To: tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.demon.co.uk In article <4bp72a$5f4@hawk.pix.za> danie.brynard@pixie.co.za "Danie Brynard" writes: > Why is the free space path loss different for different frequencies > ? Thus every time you double the frequency the pathloss increase by > 6dB. I know what the mathematical formulae say but can somebody > just give a plain gutfeel common sense answer for this dummy ? > > PS I know about 1/R^2 loss, Pl=32.45+20log(km)+20log(MHz), etc etc Be assured that free space is *not* frequency sensitive. And if the receiving antenna was a total sphere surrounding the source, even at an infinite distance there would be zero loss, because all the energy would be captured. The formula you mentioned is stated as the loss between two isotropic antennas, which is a theoretical value. But it is intended to be used in real world situations where real antennas with real gain are used and the loss will be adjusted downwards (the gain adjusted upwards) by the sum of the gains of the two antennas over isotropic values. "Real-world" theoretical receiving isotropes are considered to be smaller at higher frequencies in oder that they can maintain a constant -2.15 dB gain versus the dipole at all frequencies, and so they must capture a smaller fraction of the total source signal as frequency increases. The "capture area" of any real antenna of fixed gain varies as the square if the wavelength and as the inverse of the square of the frequency. And for the formula to be useful, the isotrope must be considered to vary similarly. This implies the inverse of loss as the square of the frequency. Of course a different model with a frequency unvarying loss formula and instead having the gain of a dipole versus an isotrope not considered fixed but instead reducing inversely with the square of the frequency might have been a better choice of model. But I guess you and I weren't around when that decision was made :-) Regards, -- Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM email: tgold@panix.com tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:45 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help - 160m beverage (3 msgs)" Date: 23 Dec 95 07:59:23 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512230759.XAA28928@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "-" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:46 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help for quad" Date: 24 Dec 95 15:18:32 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512241518.HAA23550@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "for" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:47 1995 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on diffraction loss calculation" Date: 25 Dec 95 15:25:18 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512251525.HAA11931@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "on" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:48 1995 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on freespace path loss" Date: 27 Dec 95 04:49:22 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 3 Message-ID: <199512270449.UAA11259@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu The mailing list "on" could not be found. You may use the INDEX command to get a listing of available mailing lists. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:50 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM From: jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca.(jim@SANDH.COM (Jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca (jim) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: weather maps Date: 24 Dec 95 18:16:59 Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: 16 Message-ID: <001D1563012A77EC@SANDH.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Path: news.telalink.net!news.sprintlink.net!arther.castle.net!news.netrail.net !uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!news.mindlink.net!news From: Jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca (jim pestell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: weather maps Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 00:16:59 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4bi6gb$lou@fountain.mindlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: line067.nwm.mindlink.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations sending pictures of the earth from space? So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there? Thanks. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM From: jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca.(jim@SANDH.COM (Jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca (jim) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: weather maps Date: 24 Dec 95 18:16:59 Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: 42 Message-ID: <001D4757012A77EC@SANDH.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Path: news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM From: jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca.(jim@SANDH.COM (Jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca (j im) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: weather maps Date: 24 Dec 95 18:16:59 Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: Message-ID: <001D28B0012A77EC@SANDH.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Path: news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM From: jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca.(jim@SANDH.COM (Jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca (j im) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: weather maps Date: 24 Dec 95 18:16:59 Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: Message-ID: <001D1563012A77EC@SANDH.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Path: news.telalink.net!news.sprintlink.net!arther.castle.net!news.netrail.net !uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!news.mindlink.net!news From: Jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca (jim pestell) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: weather maps Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 00:16:59 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 11 Message-ID: <4bi6gb$lou@fountain.mindlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: line067.nwm.mindlink.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations sending pictures of the earth from space? So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there? Thanks. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: llpick@aol.com (LL pick) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Mob.ant (screw driver) Date: 25 Dec 1995 20:53:59 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 3 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bnkjn$rg7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <30CD5F05.19F9@qnet.com> Reply-To: llpick@aol.com (LL pick) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com call larry n8mis or mike kf8my. they both are xperts and build a great one . i run one myself w/102" whip. they r both good in the call books.73 N9RCN From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:53 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 22:55:58 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 38 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4boks8$6kr@crash.microserve.net> References: <4bdtv4$n7d@crash.microserve.net> <4bh3in$65a@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >I suspect that is true to some extent because I build single ended link coupled tuners using a series cap to the load and a shunt cap across the coil. Neither is a differential cap. > >The ciruit works well on almost all loads. Could you describe your design in more detail? Since the last time we talked, I've built two more low-capacitance ferrite transformers in an attempt to eliminate the complexity of a link. The coupling was much better than the first one that I told you about, but the frequency response of both was terrible. I think a ferrite transformer with the characteristics I'm looking for can probably be built, but I think it could take a lot of tinkering. At this point, I'd rather get a working system a little sooner, so I've decided to build an air-link tuner instead. I'll just have to install a lot of taps on the secondary to save time experimenting. This brings up a question: If I use a coil that is capable of covering 160 - 10 meters, there will be a large number of turns shorted out when it's used on the higher bands. I've found references to the undesirability of doing this, but no specific guidelines. Is there any way I can determine beforehand what the limit is regarding the maximum number of turns that can be shorted out along the coil? I assume the problem is that the shorted turns reduce the Q, thereby increasing losses. (?) Incidentally, there's another practical problem with the "balun first" concept that I hadn't thought of before. Namely, a local SW or BCB station can induce significant common-mode voltages on a long run of transmission line. The balun doesn't do a thing to discourage these signals from entering the receiver, neither will the balanced Pi or T. Only a magnetic (low-capacitance) link will solve this problem. 73 & Happy New Year! Jack WB3U From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:53 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!winternet.com!tclbbs.com!steve.schack From: steve.schack@tclbbs.com (Steve Schack) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: antenna question Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 04:32:00 GMT Message-ID: <779978903-951225223200@tclbbs.com> Organization: The City Lights BBS Distribution: world Lines: 21 Hope this is the right echo for this question, if not direct me to a more appropriate one. At a cabin in Grand Marais MN I have one of those combo CD, tape and AM-FM radios with a single element extension antenna. The only FM station I can get with any degree of relaibility is from Ironwood Michigan 90 miles SSE across Lake Superior. Thunder Bay (60 miles) uh-uh, nothing. Duluth, nope. I fastened an 8"x4" piece of 1/2" hardware cloth to the antenna to "help". Not much difference. AM sounds like a car radio back in the 50's fade in, fade out. Is there any way I can put up a bow-tie type FM antenna, on coax, maybe with an amplifier and some how hook up to some internal connection? Like unsolder the connection for the extension antenna and hook up an external antenna? Any problems or limitations with this idea? I'm looking for ideas, I'd like something other than a single station. Thanks for any help. * SLMR 2.1a * From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:54 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: sfylaqc@scfn.THpl.lib.fl.US (richard smith) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #628 Date: 26 Dec 95 05:17:40 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 2 Message-ID: References: <199512251230.EAA05495@mail.ucsd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu unsubscribe From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:55 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usr4ip20.azstarnet.com!n7ws From: n7ws@azstarnet.com (Wes Stewart) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7??? Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:09:07 LOCAL Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <4bp6h2$j91@stratus.skypoint.net> <4bqds1$l27@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr4ip20.azstarnet.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4] In article <4bqds1$l27@newsbf02.news.aol.com> w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) writ es: >From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) >Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7??? >Date: 26 Dec 1995 22:17:21 -0500 >In article <4bp6h2$j91@stratus.skypoint.net>, edvanc29@skypoint.com >(Dutch) writes: >>Choose the one without traps but keep in mind that Gap has >>made many compromises too in cramming the Titan full of coaxial stubs. >I wonder why traps are given such a bum rap?? Oh come on Tom! You _know_ coax-fed, trap-resonated antennas are terribly "lossy", while non-resonant ladder line and tuner fed antennas are "efficient. " Why, this is "conventional wisdom." How could it possibly be wrong? > Did they say they were worse >than stubs, and what's the logic WR used??? >73, >Tom Happy New Year, Wes -- N7WS From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:56 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 08:27:10 GMT Lines: 40 Message-ID: <820096492.6892@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <4boks8$6kr@crash.microserve.net> <4boumj$821@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >My circuit isn't so complicated. I was thinking of publishing it and >not providing details so I could sell kits . I'm not touchin' this one. My feet are fryin' as it is. :o) >Seriously, just link couple to the coil with a tapped link, and >parallel tune the coil with one cap and series tune the load with >another. It tunes real smooth, and no need to move a tap around for >different load impedances. Let me make sure I understand what you mean. Let's say the coil facing the transmitter is L1 and the output coil is L2. Are you saying that only L1 is tapped, and that there's a parallel capacitor across L2 and another capacitor in series with one side of the line? If so, doesn't the single series cap unbalance the feedline currents? Also, have you built a version of this with sufficient range to cover 160 - 10 meters, without having to tap down on L2? >>The balun doesn't do a thing to discourage these signals from >>entering the receiver, neither will the balanced Pi or T. >>Only a magnetic (low-capacitance) link will solve this problem. >A choke balun does. If the choke balun presents a choking impedance of, say, 200 ohms and the common-mode impedance of the system at BCB frequencies is 2,000 ohms, the choke isn't going to do much. Even if the inductance of the choke is very high, its input-to-output capacitance may conduct the common-mode voltage back to the rig. Only if the common-mode impedance of the system is low will the choke likely be of help. Of course, that also implies the voltage is low, in which case the choke probably isn't needed for this purpose anyway. Yes? No? 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:57 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet From: raiar@inlink.com (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Radio Shack discone antenna -- help Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:25:17 GMT Organization: Inlink Lines: 44 Message-ID: <4brl2q$kkj@news1.inlink.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip216.inlink.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Jason Piush wrote: >Hi all.... >One of my gifts this year was a RS discone antenna. I have heard that >the reception under 100 mhz leaves a little to be desired because the >antenna lacks an element on the top. >My question is as follows....does anyone have knowledge of how I could >mount an element on the top of the antenna to improve reception below 100 >mhz? >Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. >Thanks. >_____________________________________________________________________________ _ > | >Jason Piush | >Winnipeg, Canada | RESERVED FOR FURTHER DEVELOPEMENT >snp346@winnie.Freenet.mb.ca | >____________________________|________________________________________________ _ Hi Jason I have two RS Discone antenna's, one I have experimented with somewhat and found that if you take each of the top horizontal wires, measure in 2 inches and bend the tips upward 30 degrees it improves lower range reception, but it plays havoc if you use it for transmission on 440. I have tried vertical wires of various lengths vertical from the top and noticed no increase in low-band reception received signal level except in the 50 MHz range, this increase was evident on all length verticals tested and not related to any resonant length vertical. I started with a 4 foot piece of music wire and shortenened it in 1/2 inch increments all the way down to about 16 inches in length. Bending the tips up 30 degrees made the most impact on reception of the antenna. Gary - KG0ZP From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:58 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!jeefers.microdes.com!usenet From: Dave Hand Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Bandpass/notch cavity construction techniques/ideas Date: 27 Dec 1995 14:27:54 GMT Organization: Micro Design International, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4brl5a$13f@jeefers.microdes.com> References: <4bkbf9$4h@voyager.Internex.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: dhand.microdes.com recurry@insighttec.com wrote: > > I've been making 70cm band bandpass/notch cavities out of 2 inch > copper pipe with some success. I'd like to make larger diameter > cavities not only for 70cm but also for 2m. I've thought about > galvanized sheet metal but am aware of the poor conductivity of the > material. Anyone had any luck with other construction practices? What > about soldering plated PCB board into square cavities? > > > Ron Curry > KE6WED > recurry@insighttec.com > recurry@inside.intel.com > I had good luck a couple years ago with gallon paint cans and the large coffee cans, their not too bad, I mesured the loss at about 1 db. Dave Hand WB4HYP dhand@microdes.com From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:59 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!news From: choi@ssd.comm.mot.com (David Choi) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Attic TV Antenna Date: 27 Dec 1995 20:54:10 GMT Organization: Motorola Inc Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4bsbpi$deo@brokaw.comm.mot.com> Reply-To: choi@ssd.comm.mot.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sagittids.comm.mot.com Hi, I am thinking of putting a TV antenna in the attic. Will the reception suffer inside the enclosed attic? If it has signal weakening, how much that would be? Did anyone have any experiences with this? I have no interference around the attic at that level. I live about 40 miles away from Chicago metropolitan. -David From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:00 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!ghiscox From: "George L. Hiscox" Subject: Re: (Q) Broadband directional ant published in HAM RADIO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: To: dandrox@montana.com Sender: ghiscox@netcom8.netcom.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <4bs878$hc1@maw.montana.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:45:47 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Lines: 43 dandroxl@montana.com (Dave and Rox) wrote: > I'm looking for information on an antenna written up in one of >the last issues of Ham Radio Magazine. I recall the article was written >by a German author, and the antenna had a German sounding name (therefore, >I don't remember). > > The antenna was a heart shaped directional with a 10 to 1 band- >width. It could be constructed from foil and mounted on plexiglass. The >heart shape was split in two (right and left), and the feed was on the >bottom where the two pieces come to a point. Radiation was opposite >the feed. > > What I dont remember are the formulas, etc. that were included >in the article. > > If anybody is familiar with this design, or has old issues of >Ham Radio Magazine and can look this up I would appriciate whatever >assistance. I would also be willing to pay for copying cost if the >article is located. > >Dave - N7MJW. Dave, The article on the Gottingen Heart Antenna by Walter J. Schultz, K3OQF, 15225 Wayside Road, Philadelphia, PA 19116, appreared in the May 1990 issue of Ham Radio Magazine on page 11. If you can't find a copy of that in your library or from another local source then feel free to drop me an email. I will be happy to copy it for you when I get back to the office "next year." 73 and Happy New Year! George -- | George L. Hiscox | Very funny Scotty... Now | | ghiscox@netcom.com | beam down my clothes !!! | | WA6RIK @ WB6YMH.#socal.ca.usa.na | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:01 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!gidora.kralizec.net.au!root From: somlo@zeta.org.au (Peter Somlo) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Sailboat antennas Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:53:11 GMT Organization: zeta.org.au Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4bsiu3$d6e@gidora.kralizec.net.au> References: <4bqflo$94p@byatt.alaska.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup37.syd1.zeta.org.au X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 Richard Dowling wrote: >Does anyone have experience with HF antennas on sailboats? I'm wondering >particularly about what length of backstay works the best, 1/4, 5/8 wave >or what? Thanks Richard ...About antennas on boats: I have often wondered why hasn't anyone paid attention to the MOUNTING HEIGHT of boat antennas. The aim is (at least for 27 MHz operation) to have the radiation main-lobe in the horizontal direction and the mounting height (with the mirror image of the antenna in the water) would influence the radiation pattern a great deal, - yet antennas are just mounted wherever is convenient. Cheers, Peter ------------- Dr Peter I Somlo FIEEE | M1: "Every coin has 3 sides - at least" Microwave Consultant | M2: "The wind ain't gonna blow from where it tel/fax: 61-2-451-2478 | ought'a, it'l blow from where it can" http://www.zeta.org.au/~somlo From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:02 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.dpc.net!novia!uunet!in2.uu.net!intac!usenet From: Mark Herson Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna Date: 28 Dec 1995 00:17:29 GMT Organization: INTAC Access Corporation - An Internet Service Provider Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4bsnmp$ked@uucp.intac.com> References: <4bsbpi$deo@brokaw.comm.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hudson.intac.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit) To: choi@ssd.comm.mot.com David, choi@ssd.comm.mot.com (David Choi) wrote: >I am thinking of putting a TV antenna in the attic. >Will the reception suffer inside the enclosed attic? >If it has signal weakening, how much that would be? >Did anyone have any experiences with this? I've had indoor attic TV antennas in two houses now. And, yes, they do work. But, in my most recent house (a townhouse condo on top of a 650 ft. hill), there was a lot of multipath. I guess the answer to your question is that yes, you can do it, but if you can get the antenna out in the clear, away from everyone else's roof, you'll be better off. -- 73, Mark, N2MH http://www.intac.com/~mherson/ From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:03 1996 From: trapps@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Stephen M Trapp) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 01:23:57 GMT Subject: Re: Radio Shack discone antenna -- help Message-ID: <58440014@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> Organization: the HP Corporate notes server Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!news.netins.net!newsrelay.netins.net!news.eng.convex.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.corp.hp.com!hpcc01!trapps Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna References: Lines: 16 I bought a RS discone a few years ago that was stainless steel with a 1/4 x 20 threaded hole in the top (I think). I was going to add a bottom loaded 6M whip antenna to it to improve the reception below 100 MHz. I thought a loaded antenna would have less impedance disruption to the discone because of the coil at the bottom (but hi-Z in a parallel path, who cares if its resonant at a harmonic, you'd get gain somewhere). I haven't done it yet. Matter of fact, on a cheap SW rcvr, the discone (and leaky RS coax, I presume) make a pretty good attenuating SW antenna. I haven't compared the antenna threads. I thought someone sold discones with a whip on top as well. 73, Steve, N4DG From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:04 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: scanner119@aol.com (Scanner119) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: 2 Channel Maxtrac to 16 Channel Maxtrac Conversion????? Date: 28 Dec 1995 02:42:01 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 17 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4btho9$s13@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: scanner119@aol.com (Scanner119) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com I saw a posting on here the other day on converting a 2 channel Motorola Maxtrac(VHF High Band) to a 16 channel. I have access to both the software and hardware I need some technical advice on how to do it. I have 4 mobiles and 1 base station I use for my construction company and would like to convert them to 16 channel radios. I priced out new radios from a local guy and he wants $425 a pop for 16 channel ones(used, no less) and I spoke to a friend who says the hardware is only about $25 for each radio so I figured this was the way to go. I really could use some help from you guys. I'm really not a radio-guy, I'm a scanner-guy myself. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx in advance. Scott SCANNER119@AOL.COM Scanner119@AOL.COM From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:05 1996 From: Ricker_msn@msn.com (Rick Ruhl) Subject: RE: Apartment antenna opinion Date: 28 Dec 95 03:48:12 -0800 References: <4br64l$pbn@fountain.mindlink.net> Message-ID: <00001fea+00001a9a@msn.com> Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newshost.marcam.com!news.netins.net!news.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com) Lines: 7 Jim: Why not contact one of the Ham Radio mags and have it printed there? Not only can you make more money that way, but you'll start to get the reputation as a low profile ham radio expert :). Ricker From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:06 1996 Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!ulowell.uml.edu!vtc.tacom.army.mil!news2.acs.oakland.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!panix!usenet From: roschews@panix.com (Rob Roschewsk) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Looking for reference sources Date: 28 Dec 1995 03:48:41 GMT Organization: Very unorganized Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4bt42p$dlq@news1.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: roschews.dialup.access.net X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.2 I am looking for some practical reference material on antennas..... Some questions I have: - how to calculate resistive and reactive componenets of an antenna feed point . - how to calculate the proper values for a gamma match without guessing the co rrect capacitor value. - how to calculate the proper values for a top loaded vertical.... and then ho w to match it to the feedline/xciver - etc etc etc hope you get the drift.... I have taken some basic AC and DC in college as electives, I have my extra cla ss licence.... SQRT(-1) doesn't scare me! I have The Antenna Engineering Handbook.... but thats over my head, Not enough detail in the ARRL Handbook.... I was thinking of getting the ARRL antenna book, and maybe t he compendium series.... what do you think!!!! Respond by email if possible..... --> Rob (KA2PBT) From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:07 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news From: mluther@tamu.edu Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials Date: 28 Dec 1995 07:21:01 GMT Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4btggt$726@news.tamu.edu> References: <4aq20c$hu5@ncar.ucar.edu> <4bnlkj$rp6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: mluther@tamu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.194.44.219 X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <4bnlkj$rp6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, llpick@aol.com (LL pick) writes: >run 4 or 6 or 8 elevated radials tuned to 1/4 wave. eg 246 divided by >freq. mghz. times vl.of wire or coax .eg: 246 ddivided by freq. times .98 >( velocity factor for wire) Also elevate and insulate ur antenna from the >ground.Feed the antenna w/ center cond. and the radials w/ shield. or vice >versa. good luck. N9RCN Better solution. Ground everything, including the support pole, irght into th e ground. Bond the radials to the pole to ground them. Feed the vertical with a conventional gamma match section. Works simply beautiful. Bring the coax down to ground level to feed to the building, complete with grounding the shield there too. Has the neat added attraction that at least you have some ground protection for Dr. Zeus. However, when you really look at all this, by the time you have added the real protection you needed for Dr. Zeus in the form of radials at ground level to dissapate his visit, you might as well just do the thing at ground level for 160, 80 and 40, at least, anyway... Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tame.edu From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:08 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com.(wb3u)@SANDH.COM (Jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (wb3u)) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna Date: 28 Dec 95 12:45:50 Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: 45 Message-ID: <001D44B9012A77EC@SANDH.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Path: news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com.(wb3u)@SANDH.COM (Jackl@pinetree.microserv e.com (wb3u)) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna Date: 28 Dec 95 12:45:50 Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA Lines: Message-ID: <001D252E012A77EC@SANDH.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Path: news.telalink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 18:45:50 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4c03bv$aq7@crash.microserve.net> References: <4bsbpi$deo@brokaw.comm.mot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 choi@ssd.comm.mot.com (David Choi) wrote: >I am thinking of putting a TV antenna in the attic. >Will the reception suffer inside the enclosed attic? I have two attic TV antennas and they both perform poorly. One looks through the roof at a tower only 6 miles away. There is snow and multipath on two of the three UHF channels broadcast on that tower. The second antenna must look through the aluminum siding on one side of the house in order to be aimed at the transmitter. I goofed and didn't have an accurate fix on the transmitter untill I put that antenna up. Needless to say, that channel is un-watchable. CATV wasn't available here when I put the antennas up two years ago, but it is now. Next spring I will either mount the antennas outside or subscribe. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:09 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!upei.ca!usenet From: seeler@upei.ca (David C. Seeler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article once again Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:13:50 GMT Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown, PEI Canada Lines: 44 Message-ID: <30e295a2.471180@137.149.3.1> References: <4avoqq$ivr@gold.niia.net> <8B74579.02CF000286.uuout@cencore.com> Reply-To: Seeler@upei.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: slip60.slip.upei.ca X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) wrote: >Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this >article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low >number of radials and become equal with a higher number of >radials is very simple. Doty's RF generator was not isolated >from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground >or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps >both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his >experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his >RF generator was located away from the antenna. > > Much deleted..... Interesting, I remember similar discussions just 3 - 4 years ago in one of these groups . Now, the most recent issue of the ARRL antenna handbook still carries a synopsis of this paper / work with no mention of the concerns regarding the experimental design of this particular study or the fact that ARRL's external review found the work to have difficulties ( from what I understand). I wonder how much other material in the handbooks need external review? After all this is 1995 - and concerns re this particlar issue were raised more than 3 years ago.......... I would agree with Ian - the editors should be more critical and if necessary submit the paper for peer/external review. Otherwise we (not just in Amateur radio - but in all fields where we try to advance the state of the art) can generate lots of DATA but is it meaningful information? Season's Greatings! May 1996 be a good year for all. Regards, David Seeler, VY2DCS Charlottetown, PEI From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:10 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.crd.ge.com!usenet From: sutliff@crd.ge.com (John A. Sutliff) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Any experience with longwire (random-endfeed) on 2m band? Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:30:52 GMT Organization: GE Corp R&D Center, Schenectady NY Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4bu63p$kjb@rdsunx.crd.ge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: backscatter.crd.ge.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I just put up ~320 ft longwire antenna and am using MFJ antenna tuner which is meant for 10m to 160m bands. I am not sure if SWR meter on that unit is accurate in VHF range. If I get a 2m SWR meter i can get an accurate reading, but can anyone tell me what to expect? Does anyone use this kind of longwire for transmitting on 2m? Thanks and 73, KB2WFW John Sutliff From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:11 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!pacifier!mac1.pacifier.com!user From: gsnow@pacifier.com (Gary Snow) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:43:31 -0800 Organization: Are you kidding??? Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <4b9jgi$1gjs@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <4bc3e4$1kuk@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <4bc5vo$bvh@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac1.pacifier.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0 In article <4bc5vo$bvh@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan Walker ) wrote: > The trick is to give it a good coat of paint, I spray paint mine > black, which gives the added bonus of making it less visible. But the color black ABSORBS the radiation, etc. I would think that painting it white would be better. Gary --- gsnow@pacifier.com <-----====()====-----> http://www.pacifier.com/~gsnow/ Vancouver, WA's On-Ramp to the Information SuperHighway (360) 693-0325 telnet to "pods.pacifier.com" (press return 2x) or dial the above to register From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:12 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!mr.net!news.mr.net!medtronic.com!usenet From: david.lipson@medtronic.com (David Lipson) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL GROUND Date: 28 Dec 1995 13:48:07 GMT Organization: Medtronic Corporation Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4bu76n$76q@gazette.medtronic.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lpc-176.leads.brady.medtronic.com X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.5 In article , cmassey@onramp.net (cl eve e massey) says: > >OK...since the ground is essentially half the antenna system, thought this >the best place to post a question... > >Can't figure out a way to get any kind of real earth ground conneced to >the HF rig...are the artificial grounds any good... > >Looked at the MFJ and then read that the new Ten-Tec kit folks have a kit >version...that would probably be more fun as I would get to build >something... > >Any and all comments would be appreciated... > >pse e-mail direct... > >txn...cleve wd5bor quater wave counterpoise is cheaper, and you can tune using Autek RF analysist , or with grid dip meter. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:13 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions Date: 28 Dec 1995 13:55:24 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 54 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4bup6s$87p@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <820096492.6892@pinetree.microserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Hi Jack, In article <820096492.6892@pinetree.microserve.com>, jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: >Let me make sure I understand what you mean. Let's say the coil >facing the transmitter is L1 and the output coil is L2. Are you >saying that only L1 is tapped, Yep > and that there's a parallel capacitor >across L2 and another capacitor in series with one side of the line? Yep >If so, doesn't the single series cap unbalance the feedline currents? Not if the whole secondary floats and stray C is kept low. It probably would be a bit better to use balanced components to keep the stays more even, but it isn't a big deal below 20 meters, especially if the rotor and frame of the series cap are tied to the stator side of the parallel cap. >Also, have you built a version of this with sufficient range to cover >160 - 10 meters, without having to tap down on L2? Oh no, L2 is tapped for several bands. >If the choke balun presents a choking impedance of, say, 200 ohms and >the common-mode impedance of the system at BCB frequencies is 2,000 >ohms, the choke isn't going to do much. Oh, I see you're talking about MW signals. I thiough you ment SW stuff at first. Why are MW signals a concern? Are you close to a station? >Even if the inductance of the >choke is very high, its input-to-output capacitance may conduct the >common-mode voltage back to the rig. It can't if the inductance is high, it's either inductive or capacitive at one frequency..not both. > Only if the common-mode >impedance of the system is low will the choke likely be of help. That's true. >Of course, that also implies the voltage is low, in which case the >choke probably isn't needed for this purpose anyway. The voltage could be very low and a choke might be needed. What if the current was very high? The choke balun and the floating tuner both work best at the same line position, and where at depends on the whole picture. 73 Tom From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:14 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cc.iu.net!news From: wnewkirk@iu.net (Bill Newkirk) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna Date: 28 Dec 1995 14:52:00 GMT Organization: Space Coast Amateur Technical Group Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4buaug$caf@cc.iu.net> References: <4bsbpi$deo@brokaw.comm.mot.com> Reply-To: wnewkirk@iu.net (Bill Newkirk) NNTP-Posting-Host: netport-25.iu.net X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2 In <4bsbpi$deo@brokaw.comm.mot.com>, choi@ssd.comm.mot.com (David Choi) writes : >I am thinking of putting a TV antenna in the attic. >Will the reception suffer inside the enclosed attic? depends on how your house was built. if you have a lot of metal in the roof, from things like siding and the roofing materials/insulation, you might not ga in much. if you've got the parts already, it's worth a try. outside in the clear with good quality feedline would be the preferred way to go (and since it's winter, it's perfect antenna construction weather 8) ) Bill Newkirk WB9IVR The Space Coast Amateur Technical Group Melbourne, FL duty now for the future of amateur radio Lombardi's 1st Law of Business: Companies succeed in spite of their best effort. If they succeed at all. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:15 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!news From: Paul Moller Subject: Re: downspouts near vertical antenna & minimizing their impact?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: MOTOROLA Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 14:54:52 -0600 Message-ID: <30E3041C.6E6F@csg.mot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4bufb3$d9t@ncar.ucar.edu> Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account) Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.188.36.8 Lines: 26 Bob Tomas wrote: > > Because of space restrictions, I had to locate my butternut vertical > antenna on the ground about 15 feet from the corner of my house. > There is a metal down spout at this corner. I removed the downspout while > painting and found that the swr changed on the 20 meter band. The swr > on the other bands did not change. > > My questions are: > > (1) Is this observed change in swr on 20 meters indicating that the downspou t > is interacting with the antenna in a detrimental way on this band? > (2) If this is bad, is it necessary to replace the downspout with the > plastic variety or can I just retune the metal one by shortening > or lengthening it? > > bob Chances are the downspout is too close on all bands. Likely you noticed the change on 20m because of a near resonance on that band. Also likely it is not helping the pattern, perhaps on any band. Consider the difficulity in getting parasitic elements to behave the way you want them, and then consider the likelihood that the downspout is the right lenght at the right spacing, on all bands! Unwanted parasitic elements are a part of life in urban and suburban hf antenna installations. Paul_Moller@csg.mot.com From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:16 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!ra.cgd.ucar.edu!tomas From: tomas@ra.cgd.ucar.edu (Bob Tomas) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: downspouts near vertical antenna & minimizing their impact?? Date: 28 Dec 1995 16:06:59 GMT Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4bufb3$d9t@ncar.ucar.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.cgd.ucar.edu Because of space restrictions, I had to locate my butternut vertical antenna on the ground about 15 feet from the corner of my house. There is a metal down spout at this corner. I removed the downspout while painting and found that the swr changed on the 20 meter band. The swr on the other bands did not change. My questions are: (1) Is this observed change in swr on 20 meters indicating that the downspout is interacting with the antenna in a detrimental way on this band? (2) If this is bad, is it necessary to replace the downspout with the plastic variety or can I just retune the metal one by shortening or lengthening it? bob From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:16 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!news.unb.ca!upei.ca!usenet From: seeler@upei.ca (David C. Seeler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.space Subject: Fabrication of a Ground Plane and the Egg Beater Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 18:53:29 GMT Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown, PEI Canada Lines: 13 Message-ID: <30e2e6df.591005@137.149.3.1> Reply-To: Seeler@upei.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: slip60.slip.upei.ca X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18090 rec.radio.amateur.space:6039 Hi - I was wondering if anyone has fabricated a groundplane for the 440 MHz eggbeater? I would be interested in knowing more about the specifics in order to improve upon the operations at my QTH. ThanKs in advance and Season's greetings! Internet: Seeler@upei.ca Regards, David Seeler, VY2DCS Charlottetown, PEI From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:18 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!degreene From: degreene@heurikon.com (David Greene) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: parabolic dish antennas Date: 28 Dec 95 19:00:32 GMT Organization: Heurikon Corporation Lines: 48 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: copernicus.heurikon.com Summary: principles of parabolic dish antennas Keywords: parabolic dish antennas X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #16 (NOV) Hello, I just had a lunchtime discussion concerning how a parabolic dish works, and what the main priciples are behind them. All three of us had different ideas on how the things work, and I was wondering if someone here would mind setting us straight on this. Here's how I view how they work: The parabolic part of the antenna is used to reflect on concentrate RF energy to a focal point in front of the antenna. At the focal point there is a small antenna element, resonant to the desired frequence, which is connected to the antenna feed point. There may also be a low-noise preamp at the feedpoint. Connected to the feedpoint is a suitable transmission line, which leads to the receiver. The argument centered on whether or not the parabolic dish size made any difference to what frequencies the overall antenna was resonant to. My argument was that changing the size of the parabolic part of the antenna only changed the amount of energy that was collected (ie. making it more sensitive), and that the only truly resonant part of the antenna was the element sitting at the focal point. Thus all you need to do to a given dish antenna to make it work on different bands is to change the size of the element at the focal point, and leave the dish size alone. I gave an example of the fact that some parabolic dishes are huge, such as those used for radio astronomy, and that some are quite small, such as the new DSS dishes, even though they may happen to be receiving the on the same frequencies. The only reasson the radio astronomy dish is so big is that it needs to be far more sensitive. Am I on track here? The one thing that bugs me is what happens to the effectiveness of the dish if you try to use it to receive signals sent at a wavelength that is approaching the physical size of the dish? Please email me at degreene@heurikon.com Thanks, Dave Greene aa9bi -- Dave Greene Heurikon Corp. (800) 356-9602 From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:19 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!oronet!news From: rst-engr@oro.net (Jim Weir) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Sailboat antennas Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 19:19:51 GMT Organization: RST Engineering Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4buqkc$us3@hg.oro.net> References: <4bqflo$94p@byatt.alaska.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Richard Dowling wrote: >Does anyone have experience with HF antennas on sailboats? I'm wondering >particularly about what length of backstay works the best, 1/4, 5/8 wave >or what? Thanks Richard I can't speak for all sailboats, all HF gear, or all types of water, but using the aluminum mast as an antenna on a Cat-22 with the stays insulated from the mast by means of teflon grommets, in fresh water, with a Kenwood TS-130 and an antenna tuner with the keel cable as the ground plane works fairly well in fresh water. I've never had the opportunity to use salt water, so I can't comment. If I were a REAL rabid hfer I'd probably rig up some sort of stainless flex-jumper from the keel cable to the metal swing-keel itself to get a little more ground. As yet, I've not struck an arc when transmitting and touching the radio. Jim Jim Weir VP Engineering | "We seem to be standing on RST Engineering | the foreskin of technology." Grass Valley CA 95945 | (Gen. Chuck Yeager) voice/fax 916/272-1432 | rst-engr@oro.net AR Adv WB6BHI CFI A&G/Comml Inst A&G/A&P/C-182A N73CQ From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:20 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pagesat.net!a3bsrv.nai.net!mgate.arrl.org!news From: Zack Lau Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Gain on helicals vs. yagis Date: 28 Dec 1995 20:49:26 GMT Organization: American Radio Relay League Lines: 23 Message-ID: <4buvsm$9do@mgate.arrl.org> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: zlau.arrl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) To: jdc@cci.com jdc@cci.com N2VNO wrote (James D. Cronin) wrote: > >While writing a Windows program to give helical antenna values (gain, >spacing, etc.) I compared gain with NBS yagis shown in the ARRL antenna >book. For a 4.2 wavelength 432.1 MHz yagi the gain is 14.2 dbd on a >115 inch boom. A 1.33 wavelength circumference helical with 20 >turns and .21 wavelength spacing gives about 18.5 dbd gain on >a 115 inch boom. > >I checked the numbers with a MS-DOS program called 'HELIX' and they came >out within 1/2 db or so. > >Are these numbers correct? Is there some kind of catch here? Why bother >with yagis at UHF when a helical antenna gives better gain? There is a study of these antennas by Darrel Emerson using NEC 2 that indicates the Kraus' gain figures to be optimistic, particularly as you increased the Helix length. The Antenna Compendium 4 article also references a couple of other studies in the professional literature. Zack Lau KH6CP/1 From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:21 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!primus.ansouth.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news From: jsutton@erols.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Best Instrument for Matching Line to Load Date: 28 Dec 1995 22:38:16 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4bv68o$8nn@zippy.cais.net> References: <820043384.12471@pinetree.microserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp121.erols.com X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) > jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: > rvr@pacifier.com (Ronald Ries) wrote: > > >I would like to start a thread about instrumentation used to match > >the antenna to the transmitter. I have long enjoyed the trying of > >different antennas on the various bands and have tried a variety of > >instrumentation to achieve a match. > > Do you mean impedance matching networks, or impedance measurement > equipment? > > >How about it? What methods/tools do you swear by in this aspect > >of the hobby? > > There are no methods that I swear by, but many that I swear at. :) > > 73, > Jack WB3U > >>>> Take a look at "Reflections" a book by Walt Maxwell and published by ARRL. A lot of good information re antennas, measurements and test equipment. 73/Jim/AC4CZ From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:22 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!kiwi.crown.net!usenet From: thor@dodo.crown.net (Lincoln Thormahlen) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: NEED CHEAP, EFFECTIVE SW BAND ANTENNA Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 03:10:34 GMT Organization: Crown Net Inc. Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4bvm42$32p@kiwi.crown.net> References: <1995Dec22.121923@aspen> NNTP-Posting-Host: crown34.crown.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 turk@uwplatt.edu wrote: >I have an old Hallicrafters S-120 receiver that's a bit banged up, but still >works rather well. However, I would like to improve my reception by leaps an d >bounds, especially at 5.065 MHz (WWCR out of Nashville). >I live in Platteville, Wisconsin, approximately 25 miles northeast of Dubuque , >Iowa. (sorry--don't have my lat and long handy) >By using ingenuity and cheeeeeeeeeeeeap materials (you tell me what), what is Radio Shack's $9.99 SW antenna kit(RS#278-758) has everything you need but a connector! I have two, one for each of my listening locations and they work great for my RS DX-380. My new Drake R8A doesn't like the noise so I homemade a 80 foot long dipole for about $60 and it gets 5065k and 3315k from WWCR very well on the Drake in NW Indiana. If the RS kit doesn't work well enough, E-mail and I'll send the dipole info. Enjoy! Lincoln Thormahlen thor@dodo.crown.net From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:23 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!panix!not-for-mail From: clay@panix.com (Clay Irving) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: weather maps Date: 29 Dec 1995 08:29:43 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 17 Message-ID: <4c0qg7$2m4@panix.com> References: <001D1563012A77EC@SANDH.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com In <001D1563012A77EC@SANDH.COM> jim_pestell@mindlink.bc.ca.(jim@SANDH.COM (Jim _pestell@mindlink.bc.ca (jim) writes: >Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations >sending pictures of the earth from space? >So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there? >Thanks. Check the "Frequency Lists/Satellite Frequencies" section of the Scanning Reference: http://www.panix.com/clay/scanning/freq-lists.html#satellite -- See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn, Clay Irving, N2VKG (clay@panix.com) I wish I were a moron, http://www.panix.com/clay My God! perhaps I am! From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:23 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: feeding rotatable antenna with ladder line Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 13:13:02 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4c247v$dmo@crash.microserve.net> References: <34171.tmedin@che2.che.umn.edu> <4c05h3$aq7@crash.microserve.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) wrote: >If the currents in the line are balanced, I wouldn't think that it >would be necessary to ground the shield(s). Connection to the tower >might be beneficial though, simply because it would prevent the >(electrical) distance between the shield and tower from changing. > >Also, if the coax was inserted at a low impedance point, you could >install ferrite beads at each end of each section. That should >further reduce the possibility of mistuning caused by the interaction >between the shield and tower. I need to clarify the above, just to be sure there's no confusion. First, as Tom Medin stated, the two shield conductors should be shorted together. However, they should be shorted together at each end, after the beads are installed. Otherwise, the beads won't provide common-mode choking. Also, the ends of the shields should not be connected back to a common ground. Otherwise, common-mode current will have a path around the beads, through the common ground. My thanks to Tom Bruhns for pointing this out. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:25 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!news From: Paul Moller Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: MOTOROLA Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 13:17:40 -0600 Message-ID: <30E43ED4.5FD1@csg.mot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <4b9jgi$1gjs@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <4bc3e4$1kuk@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <4bc5vo$bvh@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> Sender: news@schbbs.mot.com (SCHBBS News Account) Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.188.36.8 Lines: 15 Gary Snow wrote: > > In article <4bc5vo$bvh@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, scicon@ix.netcom.com(Dan > Walker ) wrote: > > > The trick is to give it a good coat of paint, I spray paint mine > > black, which gives the added bonus of making it less visible. > > Black is usually achieved by adding carbon, which is lossy. Other colors should be more friendly. PVC in itself is not bad, and certainly not as lossy at hf as the rumor of years gone by has indicated. Paul_Moller@csg.mot.com From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:26 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 13:20:58 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 36 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4c24n0$dmo@crash.microserve.net> References: <4bkc8u$r88$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> <4c1b11$c93@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 aa490@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Paul Milawski) wrote: >Steve Beyers (103107.3704@CompuServe.COM) wrote: >: I've got a 41-foot vertical I use on 40, >: 30, and 20 meters. It's a homebrew welded >: steel tower, mounted on the ground, with >: 48 buried radials, each about 50 ft. long. >: I feed it with 300 ohm window line, about >: 90 ft. long, with no matching at the base. >: The rig has the standard 50 ohm output. >A quarter-wave 'groundplane' style antenna averages around 70ohms, so >feeding it directly with 300ohm line is not the best method. >What you need to do is match the load impeadance to the line >and match the balanced line to the unbalanced load. In the 1991 ARRL >Antenna book (16th edition), chapter 26 describes Voltage/Current >baluns that can be built to do exactly this, and in your case, you >would mount it at the base of the antenna in some sort of sealed >enclosure. That may introduce more problems than it solves. The antenna isn't a quarter-wave vertical on any of the bands mentioned. The feedpoint impedance won't be 70 ohms. Someone with a modeling program needs to verify that the impedance at the feedpoint won't be excessively high on some of the bands. Otherwise, the balun may absorb more power than is presently being lost due to feedline radiation, and the feedline may radiate anyway. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:26 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: ladder line Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 13:26:41 GMT Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4c251p$dmo@crash.microserve.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 n4lq@iglou2.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) wrote: >No. I hated that stuff because it kept twisting and shorting itself >out plus the plastic insulators kept popping loose. Use the webbed >stuff or make some home brew open line. I have some webbed stuff that will be for sale next spring. I'm tired of waiting for the ice to melt so my SWR will stabilize. If the run is fairly long (more than 50' or so) and you live in a climate prone to ice and snow, buy or build real open wire line. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:28 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!church.dcss!hwfn!james!aa490 From: aa490@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Paul Milawski) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: 29 Dec 1995 18:11:45 GMT Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada. Lines: 49 Message-ID: <4c1b11$c93@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> References: <4bkc8u$r88$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN] Steve Beyers (103107.3704@CompuServe.COM) wrote: : I've got a 41-foot vertical I use on 40, : 30, and 20 meters. It's a homebrew welded : steel tower, mounted on the ground, with : 48 buried radials, each about 50 ft. long. : I feed it with 300 ohm window line, about : 90 ft. long, with no matching at the base. : The rig has the standard 50 ohm output. : In the shack, to match the rig to the line, : I use a simple homebrew link coupler with : a variable coupling (swinging?) link. Iuse : twin thermocouple ammeters to measure line : currents. I balance the currents by moving : the tap positions on the output coil. : According to the Transmission Line program, : losses are low even though the SWR is high, : because of the low loss of the 300 ohm line. What's happening here is the feedline has become part of the antenna system, and is radiating part of your signal. This is being caused by the unbalanced termination (antenna). Tuning up in the shack only matches the load (transmission line & antenna) to the transmitter. : It works great, but I wonder if I'm missing : something. I've never seen balanced line : feeding a vertical in any of the books. : Any comments? : Steve Beyers W9HJW Line radiation will distort the overall radiation pattern of your system, but it all depends on how much. Obviously the goal here is to get as much power to the antenna feedpoint as possible. Also not considered here is the antenna impeadance. A quarter-wave 'groundplane' style antenna averages around 70ohms, so feeding it directly with 300ohm line is not the best method. What you need to do is match the load impeadance to the line and match the balanced line to the unbalanced load. In the 1991 ARRL Antenna book (16th edition), chapter 26 describes Voltage/Current baluns that can be built to do exactly this, and in your case, you would mount it at the base of the antenna in some sort of sealed enclosure. Best Regards and Happy Holidays.. Paul, VE3CSY Hamilton, Ontario. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:29 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree From: jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: best "penetrating oil"??? Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 18:23:59 GMT Lines: 26 Message-ID: <820305122.6046@pinetree.microserve.com> References: <199512291451.HAA05126@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 aw638@Freenet.UCHSC.EDU (Louise Carkenord) wrote: >I know there are some true "penetrants" out there.....something >way beyond WD-40. What have you people had good success with?? >Please be very specific. Back when I was involved in auto racing, I probably tried everything on the market at one time or another. In all honosty, I never found anything that I thought actually did a better job than WD-40. Most of it *said* it did, but you couldn't prove it by my results. The real trick to disassembling stuck metal parts is to use a combination of oil and heat. After letting the WD-40 soak in for a day or so, a propane or acetylene torch can be used to heat the parts. The expansion and contraction of the metal nearly always breaks the two pieces apart with very little effort. Naturally, you have to use the type of torch and the amount of heat that's appropriate for the job. Tempered steel parts should be heated as little as possible, and an acetylene torch should not be used on aluminum unless the item is large and conducts the heat away very rapidly. Best of luck in your project. 73, Jack WB3U From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:30 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke From: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article once ag˙˙˙˙˙ Message-ID: <8B7D469.02CF0003A4.uuout@cencore.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 18:49:00 -0300 Distribution: world Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991 Reply-To: forrest.gehrke@cencore.com (FORREST GEHRKE) References: <30e295a2.471180@137.149.3.1> X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Lines: 36 DS> I wonder how much other material in the handbooks need external DS> review? After all this is 1995 - and concerns re this particlar DS> issue were raised more than 3 years ago.......... DS> I would agree with Ian - the editors should be more critical and if DS> necessary submit the paper for peer/external review. Otherwise we DS> (not just in Amateur radio - but in all fields where we try to DS> advance the state of the art) can generate lots of DATA but is it DS> meaningful information? You're asking too much of editors. They couldn't possibly have the technical savvy to encompass all of the subjects that come across their desks. Coupled with this is the constant demand for good editorial material and time constraints in publishing a magazine. Too often, however, for a variety of reasons they fail to respond to objections to what has been published. Peer/external review is one method, but it has its pitfalls, too, as far as the editors are concerned, as it introduces another delay for publishing what appears to be an interesting article. This poses another problem: for example I am on Communications Quarterly editorial review board. But I do not see every article that magazine publishes in the areas I have indicated to them to be my interest. When they publish something that has technical error in those areas, it might now appear I had passed on it? All I can do then is to write pointing out the error, which I have on occasion, and hope my objection gets published. Even when that happens, it is long after the fact. The original article becomes part of the lore of that subject and a few months or years later I see it footnoted in another article. * RM 1.3 02583 * It only rang twice...then the dog answered.. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:31 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!msunews!news From: Philippe Perreault Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work? Date: 29 Dec 1995 19:05:46 GMT Organization: Michigan State University, College of Engineering Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4c1e6a$14uc@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <4bbo28$q3b@castle.nando.net> <4bkch6$569@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: oak.egr.msu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) To: jchol@aol.com X-URL: news:4bkch6$569@newsbf02.news.aol.com What do youy mean by resonant dipole??? Is this ant singla banded ? Thanks, Happy New Year Phil, W8EKR From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:31 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail From: jstroppe@uhl.uiowa.edu (John Stroppel) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: parabolic dish antennas Date: 29 Dec 1995 19:22:57 GMT Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4c1f6h$jba@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: franklin.uhl.uiowa.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0] Dave: From what I remember from school....could be wrong..... The dish diameter (rule of thumb) should be at least 10 wavelength across for the lowest freq. to be used. This effects the width of the beam from the dish and the gain. Seems like the dish mesh need not be solid but the larges hole could only be 1/10 wavelenght and the parabolic symmetry needed to be held to the 1/10 wavelenght to avoid loss of gain. I'm no antenna eng. for what it's worth. John WA0VYZ -- John Stroppel | Internet: jstroppe@uhl.uiowa.edu The University of Iowa - Hygienic Lab | Amateur Radio: WA0VYZ Oakdale Research Campus, OH-M7A | Voice: (319) 335-4500 Iowa City, IA 52242 | Fax: (319) 335-4555 From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:32 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com!tomb From: tomb@lsid.hp.com (Tom Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: FM antennae Date: 29 Dec 1995 20:28:02 GMT Organization: Hewlett Packard Corvallis Site Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4c1j0i$jal@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> References: <4c124h$598@cc.iu.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsnb.lsid.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4] Bill Newkirk (wnewkirk@iu.net) wrote: : don't have any here, but 6 is to 59 as 213 is to 58. catv guys here use it t o get to I'd say it's more like "RG-11/U is to RG-59/U as RG-213/U is to RG-58/U." RG-6 is slightly larger than RG-59, but smaller than RG-11, and uses double shielding (braid and foil). The usual incarnation of RG-6-type cable has foam dielectric. RG-6 is indeed nominally 75 ohms and is very commonly used for video and TV RF distribution. Our local cable company runs RG-6-type all the way to wall outlets in homes. : the house, where it mates to a lightning supressor and other stuff and then they : bring the signal into the house on 59. : Bill Newkirk WB9IVR The Space Coast Amateur Technical Group : Melbourne, FL duty now for the future of amateur radio : Lombardi's 1st Law of Business: : Companies succeed in spite of their best effort. If they succeed at all. -- Cheers, Tom tomb@lsid.hp.com From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:33 1996 From: n0nas@hamlink.mn.org (Doug Reed) Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!ub!dsinc!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!rosevax!hamlink!fredmail Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Need Help with spacing of Message-ID: <820275570.AA04760@hamlink.mn.org> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 20:38:24 -0100 X-FTN-To: Willmore@mcs.com Lines: 23 WI>From: willmore@MCS.COM (David Willmore) WI>I'm building (should say that I have built most of) a J-pole antenna for 2m . WI>I've got the 3/4-l and the 1/4-l sections soldered and ready, but I couldn' t WI>decide how long the joining piece should be. I know that it forms a WI>transmission line between the lower 1/4-l piece of the 3/4-l section and WI>that the spacing would be dependant on the pipe diameter. I guess that WI>tuning the feed position can tune out that parameter, but is that correct? Hi David. The figure I use is 1/10th of the 1/4 wave length as the maximum spacing. For a 2 meter J-pole, the 1/4 wave length is about 19 inches, so I'd use no more than 2 inch spacing, preferably closer to 1.5 inches, although as close as 1/2 inch would probably work. My troubles have always been if the spacing is way too large or very close. For a 444 MHz J-pole, look for a "street elbow" for this section because it is hard to get close enough on this band. 73's, Doug Reed, N0NAS email: n0nas@hamlink.mn.org St Paul, MN * SLMR 2.1a * My reality check just bounced. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:34 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bctel.net!news.island.net!ham!rs From: rs@ham.island.net (Robert Smits) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: FM antennae Message-ID: <122995210254Rnf0.79b6@ham.island.net> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 21:02:00 PST References: <4bikop$93b@onlink3.onlink.net> <4bmicn$5pc@cc.iu.net> <4c124h$598@cc.iu.net> Reply-To: rs@ham.island.net Distribution: world Organization: The Curmudgeon's Cottage X-Newsreader: Rnf 0.79b6 Lines: 32 wnewkirk@iu.net (Bill Newkirk) writes: >In , gsnow@pacifier.com (Gary Snow) writes: >>In article <4bmicn$5pc@cc.iu.net>, wnewkirk@iu.net (Bill Newkirk) wrote: >>> don't scrimp on the feedline...no sense in putting up a good antenna array >>> and then losing it all in the feedline. consider something like RG-6. >>RG-6?? Hmmm, I haven't heard of that one. What are its characteristics? >>Gary > >don't have any here, but 6 is to 59 as 213 is to 58. catv guys here use it to get to >the house, where it mates to a lightning supressor and other stuff and then t hey >bring the signal into the house on 59. >(then again, maybe i'm just remember the numbers wrong..there is a "large" >75 ohm coax tho.) Without meaning to quibble, Bill, RG-6 is only slightly heavier and larger than RG-59. (OD of .266 in instead of .242in). It's usually got a foam dielectric as well, and is usually used in satellite receiver systems because it has less loss than RG-59. I suspect you were thinking of RG-11, another 75 ohm coax that has an OD of .405 inches, exactly the same OD as RG-8 or RG-213. If you do use RG-6, make sure you get the correct F connectors, as the ones for RG-6 have a larger hole for the centre conductor and a slightly larger crimping ring as well. Any Radio Shack usually has both types. -- rs@ham.island.net ``What is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents.'' -- Robert F. Kennedy From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:35 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!iglou!iglou2!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou2.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: feeding rotatable antenna with ladder line X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2 Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <001D3770012A77EC@SANDH.COM> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 21:26:30 GMT Lines: 15 I've used RG-62 coax for a balanced feed all the way to the antenna. Ground the shield on only one end though. Loss may surprise you because the webb type line doesn't qualify as real open wire line. That dielectric does have some loss especially at higher frequencies i.e. 20MC and above. RG-62 is a small guage, 92 ohm cable. Using two of them should yield 200 ohms. Since this setup is not the same as using a single coax, the possibility of the dielectric breaking down from the center conductor to the shild is rather vague to me. I would tend to think that such a thing would be less likely to happen because the shild is not being used as the "other conductor". Seems to me that RG62 is about 20ga copper coated steel. I used it in a balanced configuration to feed my horizontal loop, putting the balun at the tuner and grounding the shields at the tuner. Worked great. -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:36 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!iglou!iglou2!n4lq From: n4lq@iglou2.iglou.com (Steve Ellington) Subject: Re: ladder line X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2 Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (News Administrator) Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 21:28:22 GMT Lines: 14 No. I hated that stuff because it kept twisting and shorting itself out plus the plastic insulators kept popping loose. Use the webbed stuff or make some home brew open line. paul Veltman (veltman@netcom.com) wrote: : Anyone out there know of a source for old style ladder line, or is it all : this stuff that looks like oversized TV twinlead? : TIA : Paul WA6OKQ -- Steve Ellington N4LQ@IGLOU.COM Louisville, Ky From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:37 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!ghiscox From: "George L. Hiscox" Subject: References re Stacked Rhombics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: Sender: ghiscox@netcom14.netcom.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 22:03:05 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit) Lines: 24 During the past few evenings I have been computer modeling some rhombics using EZNEC. It occurred to me that there might be something to be gained by stacking them as one might stack yagis. I have checked the usual antenna references and have been unable to locate any writings on stacked rhombics. I am interested in methods of feeding such an array and don't want to waste time trying to reinvent the wheel if there is a tried and true method already in the can. If anyone out there knows of any references on the subject or has any personal experience with feeding stacked rhombics I would appreciate an email or a followup to this post. Thanks and Happy New Year! George -- | George L. Hiscox | When I die I want to go quietly in | | ghiscox@netcom.com | my sleep like my grandfather, not | | WA6RIK @ WB6YMH | screaming like the people in his car.| From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:38 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!news.forth.gr!news-ath.forthnet.gr!news.compulink.gr!usenet From: zliangas@compulink.gr (Zacharias Liangas) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: beam ant, project:Yr advice pls Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 22:43:15 GMT Organization: ME!!!!! Lines: 62 Sender: zliangas@athena.compulink.gr Distribution: world Expires: 10 days Message-ID: <4c23kq$9po@news.compulink.gr> Reply-To: zliangas@compulink.gr NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.compulink.gr Dear friends I have a big doubt so I post this masage here First lemme tell you my system configuration fr the moment before I advise you my problem : I use a SONY ICF 7600D , a Lowe HF150 and a Philips Magnavox 2395 all are digital - wire antennas - of 6m sloped 60 deg paralel to az 120 deg - and a hor wire 13 m [aralel to 15 deg az .Both are TV antenna mast guides -home brewn ATU operating 2- 7 mHz for 20 - 5 dB respectively Palce of Reception ; Thessaloniki 40N 23E Due to my interest in SEA I have the particular interest for listening to the folowing radio stations and under the condidtions as below : - STM / V o Malaysia ( dir 120 dg az) in 15295 at mean levels of 2- 3 with QRMers as R Liberty fgrom 15290 at levels S4-5 ( abt 15-25 dB more) R F I from 15300 at nearly same as R L from varius hand made account-ments I understood that a great amount of signal abt 50-60% is lost due to possible reflexions coming from the city's mountains at an angle of 270-025 deg az -RRI Jakarta in 9680 at mean levels (not always receivable) of S1-2 Only V of Turkey is QRMer at 9675 but not always QRMing due to very low mod - R Singapore in 6000 at mean levels of S2to 3 with Deutschlandfunk in 6005 (S4) as the only QRMer or sometimes Radio Dubai at 6000 but at verylow level I asked the experts of my city for making a common antenna constru ction for these 3 freqs of a antenna individual per band , I also read many boks abt antennas found solutions but most of them are un- suitable for my place ( they were quad - X beam for example) as I have minimal room in the 7 level building and possibly can use only small constructions of no more than 4 x 4 sqm PLease help me , and suggest a good protype fr beam antenna(s) under the above conditions Thank you in advance zliangas@athena.compulink.forthnet.gr PLEASE ADIVSE ME YOUR OPINIONS BY EMAIL ONLY ! ====== test for 8-bit ćá÷áńéáň ëéÜăęáň Zakaria Liang! (namanya untuk kawan sahaja!) From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:40 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!xband.ni.net!user From: blanton@ni.net (J. L. Blanton) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Eggbeater vs. Turnstile Antenna Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 23:22:16 -0800 Organization: Network Intensive Lines: 19 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: xband.ni.net Whatšs the deal with this łeggbeater˛ antenna anyway? I would expect that a pair of crossed 1-wavelength loops fed in phase quadrature would have roughly the same performance and pattern as a pair of crossed dipoles fed in phase quadrature (i.e., the venerable łturnstile˛ antenna). Furthermore, I would expect that crossed dipoles might behave better above a reflecting ground plane because there is a well-defined spacing between the radiating elements and the ground plane. In the case of crossed loops, part of the loop is closer to the ground plane than the opposite part which may make the radiation pattern less predictable. Does the łeggbeater˛ have any real advantages over the turnstile (other than slightly smaller dimensions)? Or is it simply a ploy by antenna manufacturers to market something appearing to be new and novel? Regards, Lee, WA8YBT/6 From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:40 1996 From: Glenn.Schultz@f100.n282.z1.fidonet.org (Glenn Schultz) Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!rosevax!hamlink!fredmail Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Twin-lead To trap vert.? Message-ID: <820372392.AA04781@hamlink.mn.org> Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 00:02:28 -0100 X-FTN-To: All Lines: 6 Hi All, Has anyone ever tried feeding a trap vertical with twin lead? or any other vertical for that matter? 73 de Glenn n0vyk@n0vyk.ampr.org [44.94.248.210] From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:41 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!news.paonline.com!usenet From: VJKunesJr@spacetech.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Penetrating oil Date: 30 Dec 1995 00:32:23 GMT Organization: Pennsylvania Online [Usenet News Server for Hire] Lines: 3 Message-ID: <4c21an$joc@news.paonline.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.25.244.99 X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.) There is a penetrating oil in the mail market called "Kroil". It's the best I' ve ever used on tractors and such. Don't know about antennas. Next time you put an aluminum antenna together, get some "NOALOX" or similar oxidation inhibiting compound from your local electrical supply store. That's what works for me. Good luck. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:42 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: rpmarkey@nbn.NET Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #618 Date: 30 Dec 95 01:03:54 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 22 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu HA>Date: 20 Dec 1995 18:20:35 GMT HA>From: boardman@cobra.unm.edu (Bob Boardman) HA>Subject: Good 2m Mag-mount Antennas? HA> I'm looking for a good 2 meter mag-mount antenna so I can use my HA> Kensood TH22-AT in my vehicle. The MFJ-1278B 5/8 wave mag-mount HA> for $24.95 is certainly attractive in terms of price. I'd appreciate HA> any comments from anyone who has used one of these, or suggestions HA> for any other 2m mag-mount antennas I should consider. HA> -Bob Bob, I've been using Larsen Antennas for years and in my opinion you can't beat 'em. My Larsen mag-mount has a lot of miles on it including several round trips to FL. It's never blown off the vehicle, and you can screw in any type of antenna you want for any band. I've replaced the cable assembly once in maybe 15 years. de Rick Markey, KN3C From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:43 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!Belgium.EU.net!ping.be!news From: Geert Pirens Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Kansas City Tracker or eqeuvalent for homebrew ? Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 01:40:15 -0800 Organization: PING Belgium Lines: 25 Message-ID: <30E508FF.610E@ping.be> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup09.hasselt.eunet.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) Hello All, Can anybody help me on: I am looking for a schematic of a Kansas City Tracker, or compatible. If aneyone have some kind of schematic or PCB layout ? Or if you have better stuff than this? plaese send me more information. I like to send commands via my computer to the antenna rotors. The program I use is INSTANT TRACK v1.0b. Who is so kind to help me with this ? I wil pay if needed! PLAESE contact me!! by sending e-mail, or fido mail. Greetings Geert Pirens E-Mail Geert.Pirens@ping.be or Geert.Pirens@p9.f115.n292.z2.fidonet.org Fidonet Geert Pirens / 2:292/115.9 From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:44 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Steve Beyers <103107.3704@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: 30 Dec 1995 03:38:39 GMT Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4c2c7v$ko9$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> References: <4bn34u$n3f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Tom - I tried a balun with a single biflar winding on an iron powder toroid core at the antenna feedpoint. It helped, so added another one in series. That gave me almost perfect balance on 20 meters and 30 meters. However, on the lower bands the unbalance reappeared, and on 160 it was almost 2 to 1. This leads me to believe i'm on the right track. Am I going to run into some other problem if I keep making the balun bigger to work on the lower frequencies? Will they start to heat up and dissipate energy? If this works, I'm getting close to what I want - an all-band vertical, with conjugate matching, all done in the shack, with no matching at the antenna. What do you think? Thanks. Steve -- Steve Beyers W9HJW From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:45 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!news3.digex.net!usenet From: ericr@mail1.digex.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Off-center fed dipole? Date: 30 Dec 1995 03:49:44 GMT Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4c2cso$8g7@news3.digex.net> Reply-To: ericr@access.digex.net NNTP-Posting-Host: dcc12506.slip.digex.net X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5 I'm looking for a decent wire antenna I can use for 80 and 40m in my 130x40 ci ty lot. The ARRL antenna handbook mentions this antenna, and adds that the G5RV was re ally for alternate (as opposed to consecutive) bands. Also, it didn't say much goo d about the Windom. I have only the tuner built into my HF rig (FT-890), and don't really have the space for a radial system. Any help is appreciated! Eric WD3Q -- Eric Rosenberg WD3Q, J20BY, VK2GYA, etc. Washington, DC ericr@access.digex.net From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:46 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news1.cris.com!news From: jitano@cris.com (Marco G Chiriboga) Newsgroups: soc.culture.venezuela,soc.culture.uruguay,soc.culture.spain,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.mexican.american,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.ecuador,soc.culture.cuba,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.argentina,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Un francés está buscando contacto Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 04:19:19 GMT Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 37 Message-ID: <4c27r4$bpm@spectator.cris.com> References: <30D28AF5.6972@planete.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: crc1-fddi.cris.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: news.epix.net soc.culture.venezuela:43510 soc.culture.uruguay:4760 soc.culture.spain:84530 soc.culture.peru:11249 soc.culture.mexican.american:7951 soc.culture.latin-america:40105 soc.culture.ecuador:4326 soc.culture.cuba:32535 soc.culture.colombia:12755 soc.culture.chile:32776 soc.culture.bolivia:10959 soc.culture.argentina:29593 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32358 rec.radio.amateur.misc:96237 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12444 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:23210 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13393 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18110 estrella@calvin.usc.edu wrote: >In article <30D28AF5.6972@planete.net>, Philippe CUVINOT > wrote: >> Hola, >> >> Soy francés y estoy buscando a amigos para conversar acerca de temas >> latino americanos. Me interesa muchísimo la cultura precolombina y >> estoy realizando una página a propósito de las grandes civilizaciones. >> Escribanme para darme ideas interesantes. Gracias. >> Hasta pronto, Philippe. >Hola Philippe, > Yo soy frances tambien, y vivo en Los Angeles, California. Trabajo como >bibliotecario especializado en literatura mexicana y centro americana, en >la University of Southern California. Me gustaria conversar contigo en >cualquier idioma (espanol, frances, ingles) y ayudarte. Aqui en el sur de >la California hay mucha gente de habla hispana y muchas organizaciones >culturales : mexicanas, salvadorenas, hondurenas......bueno una fuente muy >larga de posibilidades. Puedes usar mi correo electronico directamente >estrella@calvin.usc.edu >espero hablar contigo muy pronto! gracias >JEAN-LUC >JEAN-LUC ESTRELLA >DOHENY MEMORIAL LIBRARY >UNIVERSITY PARK CAMPUS >LOS ANGELES, CA, 90089 >U.S.A. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:47 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: tmedin@che2.CHe.umn.EDU (tom medin) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: feeding rotatable antenna with ladder line Date: 30 Dec 95 10:47:48 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 19 Message-ID: <32387.tmedin@che2.che.umn.edu> Reply-To: NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu References: <820304579.6046@pinetree.microserve.com> <4c3ujn$2u0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) wrote: >I have a book "1001 Uses for Cats". It says cats make good lightning >arrestors on page 23. > >Seriously, the best solution is to unhook and unplug everything. I had my cat unplugged. Now he hates me. 73, Jack WB3U "Run Away!!!! Run Away!!!!" Monty Python From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:49 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line Date: 30 Dec 1995 12:36:42 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 48 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4c3tba$2ii@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4c2c7v$ko9$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <4c2c7v$ko9$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, Steve Beyers <103107.3704@CompuServe.COM> writes: Hi Steve, Congrats again on your tenacity. I'm happy to see you measure things to confirm the results. > I tried a balun with a single biflar winding on >an iron powder toroid core at the antenna feedpoint. >It helped, so added another one in series. That gave >me almost perfect balance on 20 meters and 30 meters. >However, on the lower bands the unbalance reappeared, >and on 160 it was almost 2 to 1. This leads me to >believe i'm on the right track. Am I going to run >into some other problem if I keep making the balun >bigger to work on the lower frequencies? Not if you use a series of baluns with little mutual coupling, and don't bring the system into unwanted series resonance. If you followed the Doty thread, you will see that you now have a problem of the balun impedance not being high enough for the base and ground system impedance on 160. So the station ground and feedline is part of the antenna system now. Perhaps a second core with a higher perm mix would be better for 160 and 80. Powdered iron is just way too low perm. I would recommend a stack of 43 material cores. Just a few passes through a four tall stack of 2" diameter 43 material cores would be enough for 160, and not give a problem on 20 through 10 meters. I like to strip the shield off and use the center of RG-58 because the voltage breakdown is very high. >Will they start to heat up and dissipate energy? Not if you watch the Q of the core at the operating frequency, and the voltage per turn. Maybe use two different materials in two independent chokes. A lower perm for the HF end (like 68 material with a Q>200 over the upper HF region) followed by a 43 material for the low end. >If this works, >I'm getting close to what I want - an all-band vertical, >with conjugate matching, all done in the shack, with >no matching at the antenna. What do you think? Thanks. Sounds like a great idea! The only problems I see are the large voltages Jack mentioned that may appear on some bands. Too bad no one sells good HV rated choke baluns. If the dielectrics all held up we's be in business. Keep us posted, I know Jack and others are interested. 73 Tom From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:51 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!acd!Gary_Danaher From: Gary_Danaher@acd.org (Gary Danaher) Reply-To: Gary_Danaher@acd.org Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Distribution: world Subject: Re: HELP! R-7 Problem? Date: 30 Dec 1995 12:58:13 GMT Message-ID: <772665310.35934639@acd.org> Organization: Apple Corps of Dallas Lines: 16 >>>> Hi, guys. I just got a Kenwood TS-870S and hooked it up to an R-7 I have had up since summer. For a day or two the R-7 seemed to load with the SWR at 1.4 or so and the Power at 110 Watts or so. Now that it is raining, the SWR is 2-3 and the power is at 2-5 Watts. On some bands I get no SWR reading and no power. Any Ideas? The R7 uses traps to resonate. If the traps short, and they do from time to time, the antenna will not see itself at the proper length. Trying to make this real simple, you probably will need to take it down and look at each trap. At least one of them isn't working properly, so it will need to be fixed or replaced. Beyond that, tuning on the R7 is possible. A 1.4 swr is not wonderful if that is as good as it gets on the band. This antenna should do better than that, at some point, on every band it is designed for. Tune up and down the band or use an analyzer to find the pont of resonance, and then adjust lengths to get the swr down. Watch out for metal attached to the house nearby--rain gutters, metal roofing, etc. This too could affect the swr. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:52 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Sparkgap lightning protector Date: 30 Dec 1995 12:58:15 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 19 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4c3ujn$2u0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <820304579.6046@pinetree.microserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <820304579.6046@pinetree.microserve.com>, jackl@pinetree.microserve.com (WB3U) writes: > >Personally, if I ever saw my Matchbox arcing from the coil to chassis, >I wouldn't connect the rig again until I had installed a knife switch >from both both sides of the ladder line to ground. Whenever a storm >came over, and/or whenever I wasn't on the air, I would throw the >switch and disconnect the rig from the tuner. > >73, >Jack WB3U I have a book "1001 Uses for Cats". It says cats make good lightning arrestors on page 23. Seriously, the best solution is to unhook and unplug everything. 73 Tom From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:53 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.uwa.edu.au!classic.iinet.com.au!news From: yendor@collective.com.au (Rod Grasso) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Improving mobile phone fringe reception? Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 14:28:12 GMT Organization: Kingdom Software Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4c4e59$lnu@classic.iinet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip1.collective.com.au X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 I have been asked to improve communication for a friend who lives on the fringe of mobile phone coverage (analog approx 870 Mhz). As this is his only means of communication I would appreciate any advice for constructing a hi gain/directional home base antenna that he could connect his phone to. I have a few books on antennas but none cover anything near this frequency. Thanks. yendor@collective.com.au From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:55 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!overload.lbl.gov!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk From: Ian G3SEK Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article once again Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 14:32:33 +0000 Organization: IFWtech Lines: 83 Message-ID: <411489648wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> References: <30e295a2.471180@137.149.3.1> <8B7D469.02CF0003A4.uuout@cencore.com> Reply-To: G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1 X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk Forrest Gehrke K2BT wrote in response to David Seeler: : : DS> I wonder how much other material in the handbooks need external : DS> review? After all this is 1995 - and concerns re this particlar : DS> issue were raised more than 3 years ago.......... : : DS> I would agree with Ian - the editors should be more critical and if : DS> necessary submit the paper for peer/external review. Otherwise we : DS> (not just in Amateur radio - but in all fields where we try to : DS> advance the state of the art) can generate lots of DATA but is it : DS> meaningful information? Since accuracy is what this thread is all about, David was actually agreeing with Tom W8JI :-) Forrest makes several good points about the difficulty of publishing articles that are completely accurate. The peer review process is very difficult to administer, and because editors have to rely on volunteer effort there can be enormous delays. Also the quality of amateur radio peer reviewing is very patchy, and this in turn creates resentment among authors. In fact the process of getting an article published has made many new authors swear never to write anything again. Amateur radio is much the poorer for that. On the other hand, once you become an accepted author you can write practically anything! There is a great temptation for editors to skip any kind of review process for authors whom they think they can trust. I've experienced this as an author, an editor and of course as an ordinary reader. It's particularly dangerous for us regular monthly columnists. Many new amateur authors submit good technical ideas, but don't communicate them well. In-house re-writing is sometimes the answer, but it isn't the whole solution unless the technical editors are at least as competent as the original author - and also unless they are given the time to do a thorough job. As Forrest said: : You're asking too much of editors. They couldn't possibly have : the technical savvy to encompass all of the subjects that come : across their desks. Coupled with this is the constant demand : for good editorial material and time constraints in publishing a : magazine. : Too often, however, for a variety of reasons they fail to : respond to objections to what has been published. True. The more effort the editors put into achieving technical accuracy, the less likely they may be to acknowledge mistakes when they do occur. A lively technical correspondence page with short deadlines is one solution, but even with a monthly magazine the turnaround time of article-comment-response can be several months. With a quarterly, that can easily extend to a year or more. As Forrest said, it doesn't end with the original article. If the original article fills a gap in previous knowledge, it will be quoted and used - even if it's incorrect. To make matters worse, the amateur radio publishing industry has a strong tendency to quote and re-quote itself in so-called "handbooks" which may receive very little technical review because the source material is already supposed to be OK. The Internet will help to change all that. In these newsgroups we have exactly the kind of exchange that is needed to make sure that technical articles are debated as freely and thoroughly as they need to be. The fact that it's being done in the open should also make editors more accountable for whatever they choose to publish - or to omit. It's all to easy for editors to become hypnotized by the need to feature brand-new ideas. But new knowledge also extends *backwards*, into areas we thought we understood - but actually didn't. Whenever we discover something new, we need to revisit everything we though we already knew, to check that it still makes sense. And if it doesn't, we need to be prepared to admit it. -- 73 from Ian G3SEK Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book' 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) Professionally: IFW Technical Services Clear technical English - anywhere. From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:56 1996 Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.nic.surfnet.nl!sun4nl!inter.nl.net!waasdorp From: Coen Waasdorp Subject: Attn Hams in Germany. Experience with the HX 002 A1 dipole? X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ldn98-25.leiden.nl.net Message-ID: Sender: news@inter.NL.net (News at news) Organization: NL Net X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 1.06 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 16:20:32 GMT Lines: 16 Hi there, In the Funk magazine issue 1/96 there was an article about a dipole made by Rohde & Schwarz. It is the HX 002 A1 and covers the range from 1,5 Mhz to 30 Mhz. The dipole is connected at the base to a matching unit. Does any one have any experience with this dipole? Tks coop 73 -- Coen Waasdorp PA0COE From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:57 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!news.unb.ca!scratchy.mi.net!fougereg From: fougereg@mi.net (fougereg) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Base Antenna Date: Sat, 30 Dec 95 18:04:14 GMT Organization: MIS Saint John Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4c3uuu$79c_001@fougereg.mi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fougereg.mi.net To: all X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3 My father is in the process of setting up a base station. All he needs is an antenna and would like to build one. Does anyone out there have any plans for building a good antenna for this. Thanks in advance! Geoff email fougereg@mi.net _____________________________________________________ Geoff Fougere Email fougereg@mi.net _____________________________________________________ From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:58 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway From: stoskopf@tri.NET (Lawrence Stoskopf) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Doty, peer review, sort of...(an aside) Date: 30 Dec 95 20:57:04 GMT Organization: ucsd usenet gateway Lines: 44 Message-ID: <199512302045.OAA16206@home.tri.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu Originator: daemon@ucsd.edu Gee guys. Don't feel bad about lack of or poor peer review in our hobby magazines. This is off the subject of this mailing list, but some might find it of interest. If you give steroids (cortisone) for a long period of time, the body stops making very much because of feedback (you are getting enough so why make any?). And it takes a while for your adrenals to get back into production. One of the purposes of those steroids is to allow you to respond to stress. So if you are on steroids and stop taking it or worse if you get operated on or become severely injured or sick, you need more and as you can't make any for a while, it has to come from a shot, pill, etc. or you may die very suddenly. Since the time I started anesthesia residency 20+ years ago until now, the rule is give a dose the night before surgery, one the morning of, and another during surgery....even if it were a cataract surgery or something with little stress. A few years ago, a curious endocrinologist though that this didn't make sense as an injected dose lasts only a few hours and the day before dose is gone long before the added stress. So he started looking up references to current articles, then looked up those articles references, etc. until they converged somewhere back in the 40's at the time when cortisone was just being developed. One article, one death after surgery on a patient who had been on big doses of cortisone and had very small adrenals at autopsy. To paraphrase (from memory) the author's conclusions.."gee guys, we really don't know what happened, but based on this case, it looks like maybe we should give a dose the night before....." Any guesses about the current recommendation for pre-treatment? What expert witnesses say at trials? Even in a profession where publish or perish is the rule and articles are rejected for the slightest reviewer's reasons. I really have enjoyed the Doty thread. Thanks to those adding a lot of insight on the science and politics. Now for some measurements? As one of my staff used to qoute from somewhere, "It is not enough to believe, one must know" BTW: If I were a big bird that could only see at, say 1296, and I flew around a big yagi at that frequency that was perfectly terminated, what would I see? These things are important. Lawrence E. Stoskopf N0UU From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:59 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns From: bbruhns@newshost.li.net (Bob Bruhns) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Off-center fed dipole? Date: 31 Dec 1995 05:54:53 GMT Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4c58jd$7j6@linet02.li.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] You can connect an 80 and a 40 meter dipole to the same feedline. Just let the 40 meter section droop down so it's at least a few inches away from the 80 meter section, and it will work. Feed it with 50 ohm coax (RG-8 is fine) and preferably use a W2DU sleeve balun. There is a little interaction tuning this antenna, but it's not bad. Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, bbruhns@li.net From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:00 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Doty article once again Date: 31 Dec 1995 06:41:27 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 39 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4c5st7$nf2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <411489648wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <411489648wnr@ifwtech.demon.co.uk>, Ian G3SEK writes: >The Internet will help to change all that. In these newsgroups we have >exactly the kind of exchange that is needed to make sure that technical >articles are debated as freely and thoroughly as they need to be. The fact >that it's being done in the open should also make editors more accountable >for whatever they choose to publish - or to omit. > >It's all to easy for editors to become hypnotized by the need to feature >brand-new ideas. But new knowledge also extends *backwards*, into areas we >thought we understood - but actually didn't. > >Whenever we discover something new, we need to revisit everything we though >we already knew, to check that it still makes sense. And if it doesn't, we >need to be prepared to admit it. >73 from Ian G3SEK A good friend of mine that recently passed away was head of QC for NASA. His favorite saying was "Never accept one source for critical data." I always thought that should be printed on the cover of every book and magazine, and above the door of every publishers office. The problem is, as you said, once misinformation fills a gap....it is repeated and repeated without regard to it's accuracy. But usually you can follow it back in through the loops to one source. I am always particulary leary of articles that only reference other articles written by the same guy writing the article I am reading. For example, Ricky Hamm writes an nice article on amplifiers full of foot notes or references....and the notes all refer to things written by....Ricky Hamm. A very good response Ian, and it echos my thoughts exactly. Internet can be a good forum to weed out misinformation, or at least present another view! 73 Tom From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:01 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!bingsun2-gw!geotek From: tom Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: HF ANTENNA HELP? Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 10:13:31 -0500 Organization: Binghamton University, Binghamton, NY Lines: 4 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.226.1.20 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: geotek@bingsun2-gw Need help! Want to operate HF from a new Chevy LUMNIA van. The van is plastic. I would prefer a low cost small profile antenna. Window mount,roof mount? Any suggestions? Tom WA2ANG From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:02 1996 Path: news.epix.net!mango.epix.net!will From: will@epix.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: LPDA dimensions anyone? Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 10:14:05 -0500 Organization: epix.net Lines: 29 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: mango.epix.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Anybody know the element dimensions for a 5-element 10/12/15/17/20m Log Periodic Dipole Array. I have one but not too interested in climbing the tower to measure right now - and I have a South American contact who is eager to build one. post or email to will@epix.net - KD3XR - W F Sill, Tunkhannock, PA thanks long el 33.8 ' boom 12' ------------------------------------------------------------------------- || || || ---------------------------------------------------------- || || || -------------------------------------------- || || || --------------------------- || || || ------------- From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:03 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk From: "Anthony R. Gold" Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: GPS antenna alternative Date: Sun, 31 Dec 95 10:23:59 GMT Organization: Microvest Limited, London Lines: 14 Message-ID: <820405439snz@microvst.demon.co.uk> References: <4c5d6c$i4v@news.ios.com> Reply-To: tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.demon.co.uk In article <4c5d6c$i4v@news.ios.com> scava@tribeca.ios.com "Stephen Cava" writ es: > Is anyone aware of a good antenna alternative to the magellan gps nav. > system. I am not that interested in the 3D mode, but would like accurate > 2D mode operation. Thanks in advance for all help. Try also asking in sci.geo.satellite-nav where folks know all about these. Regards, -- Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM email: tgold@panix.com tgold@microvst.demon.co.uk packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:04 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.pe.net!news.corpcomm.net!funny.bahnhof.se!news From: Ernst Wingborg Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Antenna Date: 31 Dec 1995 12:29:58 GMT Organization: Bahnhof Internet Access Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4c5vo6$klu@funny.bahnhof.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: pppnode4.bahnhof.se The secund issue of the Swedish Radio Amateurmagasin QTC contents a lot of artikels about antennas. Mostly in Swedish language but ewen some text written in english. The price is about 10 US dollar If you want to buy one magazin you can order it from SSA Sveriges Sändaramatörer Östmarksgatan 43 S-123 42 Farsta Sweden Or from the editor: SM0RGP Ernst Wingborg Träkvista Bygata 36 S-178 37 Ekerö Sweden Fax +(0)8 560 306 48 Or E-net: nummer@bahnhof.se From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:05 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet From: Hank Blackstock Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: GPS antenna alternative Date: 31 Dec 1995 12:32:19 GMT Organization: IONet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4c5vsj$goj@ionews.ionet.net> References: <4c5d6c$i4v@news.ios.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: osip35.ionet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: scava@tribeca.ios.com scava@tribeca.ios.com (Stephen Cava) wrote: >Is anyone aware of a good antenna alternative to the magellan gps nav. >system. I am not that interested in the 3D mode, but would like accurate >2D mode operation. Thanks in advance for all help. > >Later, >Steve A different antenna will have no affect on the accuracy of a GPS. Don't quite understand what you mean about accurate 2D. When the gps has received enough satellites for 2D you have to enter your known altitude to get good accuracy, but you don't need to because within a min or two it will have enough sats for 3D. The only way to increase accuracy is to use some sort or differential means (compare readings of two GPS's. one at a known point). The accuracy of a gps is 100meters due to the DOD skewing of the data. Actually it is normally better than that but that is what you can depend on. 73 Hank From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:06 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: w8jitom@aol.com (W8JI Tom) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: References re Stacked Rhombics Date: 31 Dec 1995 12:35:45 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 46 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4c6hlh$vt@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <4c5st7$nf2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Subject: Re: References re Stacked Rhombics From: veltman@netcom.com (paul Veltman) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 04:20:52 GMT George L. Hiscox (ghiscox@netcom.com) wrote: : During the past few evenings I have been computer modeling some : rhombics using EZNEC. It occurred to me that there might be : something to be gained by stacking them as one might stack yagis. : I have checked the usual antenna references and have been unable : to locate any writings on stacked rhombics. Hi George, This is close to being a Heretic in the church of antennas, but here's my view. Stacked Rhombics will work if that is the type of antenna you want to use, but much smaller antennas can have higher gain. One area almost always ignored, and one the modeling program you are using won't handle, are near-field ground losses in the area of the antenna. The second is the power actually radiated along the wire. Kuecklin had an excellent book (now out of print) detailing actual measurements of Rhombics, V's, and other long wire arrays in real test range measurements. It showed for leg lengths between 3.3 and 3.9 WL long the gain actually levels off and then eventually decreases because of current taper in the wire and wasted power in additional minor lobes. That was for antenna heights of 1/3 the leg length. Page 4-34 of Antenna Engineering Handbook by Jasik gives an idea of how much power remains at the far end of Rhombic. The text indicates the amount of power left to be dissipated in the terminating resistance is less than 50% in a Rhombic of 2 wl per leg, and 15 percent when the legs are 5 wl or more per side. The taper of power is the reason making a Rhombic very long is a waste of time (for gain), and why stacking shorter Rhombics will help. Stacking Rhombics, feeding them in end fire pairs, or any other combination will work better than making the antenna longer. But the gain will never be as high as an endfire or broadside array will produce in half the space! VOA's curtain arrays look very small compared to their Rhombics, but have several dB more gain. Happy New Year, Tom From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:07 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!news.worldlinx.com!news From: Francois Berube Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Vertical HF antenna HF6V Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 12:42:11 -0800 Organization: Club Radio Amateur de Quebec Inc. Lines: 8 Message-ID: <30E6F5A3.12FD@mediom.qc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.101.89.48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) Hello to you, i was using a Butternut HF6V antenna on the ground rear my house, so i moved to another house and i want to know if i can install this antenna in the top of the roof ?? thank you Frank VA2RC@VE2GPQ.PQ.CAN FBERUBE@MEDIOM.QC.CA From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:07 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!central.co.nz!usenet From: sod@central.co.nz (Terence Blyth) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Help Construction of HF Vertical antenna 80-20 m Date: 31 Dec 1995 13:38:51 GMT Organization: Internet Company of New Zealand - Wellington Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4c63pb$cc5@central.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: sod.central.co.nz X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14 Can any one out there help with construction details of the above antenna for base station use. If so please reply Regards Daniel Blyth (ZL3AV) From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:08 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ratty.wolfe.net!usenet From: wa6awd@wolfenet.com (Alan Burgstahler) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Improving mobile phone fringe reception? Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 15:24:31 GMT Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4c6a9f$fl@news1.wolfe.net> References: <4c4e59$lnu@classic.iinet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: sea-ts1-p10.wolfenet.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 yendor@collective.com.au (Rod Grasso) wrote: >I have been asked to improve communication for a friend who lives on >the fringe of mobile phone coverage (analog approx 870 Mhz). As this >is his only means of communication I would appreciate any advice for >constructing a hi gain/directional home base antenna that he could >connect his phone to. I have a few books on antennas but none cover >anything near this frequency. There are a number of companies that make yagis for this frequency band for the exact purpose that you are stating. I know that in the U.S. our company deals with a two-way radio distributor that sells, among many other things, yagis for this purpose. They can be found at www.tessco.com. You might look there for ideas, at least. Alan - WA6AWD - Kent, WA, USA wa6awd@wolfenet.com From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:09 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore From: cmoore@vegas.ch.intel.com (Cecil A. Moore~) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: SB-201 SWR Date: 31 Dec 1995 17:45:16 GMT Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ Lines: 10 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4c6i7c$olr@chnews.ch.intel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com Bought me a SB-201 for Xmas. Two tubes and a pi-net output. The load is 100 ohms, resistive, and I think the pi-net achieves a conjugate match with no reflections. The SB-201 SWR meter is calibrated for 50 ohms and reads 2:1 What function does the SWR meter serve? The manual says not to allow the SWR over 3:1 but the SWR meter is not measuring the SWR unless it's a flat 50 ohm system. Anybody know the conjugate matching range of the SB-201? thanks and 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC (not speaking for my employer) From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:10 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news From: Chris Boone <72732.2610@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Stacking 6m square loops? Date: 31 Dec 1995 19:16:04 GMT Organization: ENTERGY/Gulf States Utilities Lines: 12 Message-ID: <4c6nhk$ppu$1@mhafn.production.compuserve.com> Should be the same as stacking halos, etc...I think the antenna handbook recommends 1/2wave or full wave center to center......there should be no difference between the antennas you have the a squalo/dipole as far as stacking/feeding, etc 73 Chris -- Senior Telecommunications Technician 72732.2610@CompuServe.com ENTERGY/Gulf States Utilities 1:106/4267 FIDOnet WB5ITT - Advanced Class BBS- 409-447-4267 (WBBS) PG-9-5322 FCC Commercial 409-525-2001 PhoneMail 24hr From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:11 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sparky.midwest.net!usenet From: gayle@ldd.net (Gayle Albert) Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Log Periodic Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 19:18:24 GMT Organization: Midwest Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4c6nlk$8k9@sparky.midwest.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dial4-27.midwest.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 ke3mf@atc.ameritel.net (Glenn Thorn) wrote: >Has anyone seen, have, or heard of any plans for a VHF/UHF log >periodic? Any software? >Thanks, >de Glenn, KE3MF Glenn: Take a look in the ARRL Antenna Book. Their coverage of LPDA design is quite good. Any LPDA design work involves some tedious (but not difficult) math. If you have a decent calculator, all will be well. I have a Lotus 123 spreadsheet that I did a long time ago for doing at least the major LPDA work, but it is _very_ rough! I have not seen a true design program for LPDAs. Marty Albert (Amatuer Radio Station KC6UFM) PO Box 717 Fredericktown, MO 63645 From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:13 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!jordans.demon.co.uk From: Steve Jordan Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Vertical HF antenna HF6V Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 21:42:18 GMT Organization: None Lines: 42 Message-ID: <195278710wnr@jordans.demon.co.uk> References: <30E6F5A3.12FD@mediom.qc.ca> Reply-To: steve@jordans.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: jordans.demon.co.uk X-Broken-Date: Sunday, Dec 31, 1995 21.42.18 X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!jordans.demon.co.uk In article: <30E6F5A3.12FD@mediom.qc.ca> Francois Berube writes: > Path: demon.co.uk!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.n et!worl dlinx.com!news.worldlinx.com!news > From: Francois Berube > Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna > Subject: Vertical HF antenna HF6V > Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 12:42:11 -0800 > Organization: Club Radio Amateur de Quebec Inc. > Lines: 8 > Message-ID: <30E6F5A3.12FD@mediom.qc.ca> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.101.89.48 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I) > > Hello to you, i was using a Butternut HF6V antenna on the ground rear my > house, so i moved to another house and i want to know if i can install > this antenna in the top of the roof ?? > > thank you > Frank > VA2RC@VE2GPQ.PQ.CAN > FBERUBE@MEDIOM.QC.CA > > Hello Frank > You should be able to install the HF6V in the top of the roof but you'll nee d to install tuned radials for an above ground installation for the bands you want to use it on. The instructions give some warnings about the radials being interfered with by any metal guttering. Good luck Steve --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Steve Jordan EMail steve@jordans.demon.co.uk | | G0SNJ | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:13 1996 Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!usenet From: crcarlson@netins.net Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Off-center fed dipole? Date: 31 Dec 1995 22:42:11 GMT Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA Lines: 19 Message-ID: <0099BB27.95EE7B3D@netins.net> References: <4c58jd$7j6@linet02.li.net> Reply-To: crcarlson@netins.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net In article <4c58jd$7j6@linet02.li.net>, bbruhns@newshost.li.net (Bob Bruhns) w rites: > You can connect an 80 and a 40 meter dipole to the same feedline. Just >let the 40 meter section droop down so it's at least a few inches away from >the 80 meter section, and it will work. Feed it with 50 ohm coax (RG-8 >is fine) and preferably use a W2DU sleeve balun. > > There is a little interaction tuning this antenna, but it's not bad. > > Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, bbruhns@li.net Bob: As a matter of fact I am currently using a 40 and 20 meter dipole "fanned " in just the way you suggest. Come spring I hope to have something more sexy but f or now it works well enough. Its easy to get up and I have only one feedline. I m ade it out of junk I had laying around. If he had too small a lot he could put up the antenna as a vee and it should d o pretty well. Also a full wave loop on 80 could be made to fit the lot, if a high enough support could be found. Good luck de WB0FDJ