Safety & Health
From: Gail_Anderman@lamg.com (Gail Anderman)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia
Subject: Re: Turkey tips needed
Date: April 1995
Comments on 6 weeks in Turkey during August and September '94:
Safety: We had several occasions in late evening to walk dark, almost
empty, rural lanes and Istanbul side street and were never threatened
at all. Local men even carry their wallets in the back pocket of their
pants without concern for theft. Every traveler we met agreed with us
that we felt safer in Turkey than in our own home towns.
Water: No one drinks from the tap and good bottled water is cheap and
available everywhere.
---
From: pf@bilkent.edu.tr (Pierre Flener)
To: Somebody@Some.Where (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Safety in Turkey
Date: March 1994 [but still valid]
>enter Turkey via eastern Europe, drive to Istanbul, and then to Izmir.
>We would spend probably 10-14 days and then drive out the same way.
This should be safer than the East. I can't say "safe, period" because
there have been attacks in the West as well. Note that, contrary to
the religious fundamentalists in Algeria/Egypt, the PKK does *not* seem
to be aiming at foreigners (or foreign holdings), probably because they
want foreign sympathy to support their cause: downright aggressiveness
aimed at foreigners would spoil this sympathy. An *exception* to this
rule is the beginning of every season (early April), where they
regularly kill a few tourists (around Antalya or istanbul): more
killings would destroy any hopes for Western sympathy, less (or no)
killings wouldn't deter foreigners from bringing a huge annual
cash-crop. Of course, if you later happen to be on the wrong bus in
eastern Turkey... (they don't check first whether there is a
foreigner). Kidnappings only happen in the East, and seem only aimed
at attracting media attention, not at hurting the (intrepid) travelers,
and these travelers usually get away with a heavy dose of communist
brainwashing.
>Some of the state dept info is awfully scary, especially re:acts of
>terrorism and the eastern provinces. While we know that there are no
>guarantees while traveling, we also have no interest in taking foolish
>risks, especially with children.
I see. But, as I wrote, SDTAs are rather paranoid in general.
Moreover, they always fail to acknowledge that the USA itself is
probably one of the most unsafe countries in the world to be (or
travel)!!! See Florida, Texas, and so on. See the crime rates in all
the big cities, and recently even in small towns. But I can tell you
that I don't know a single expatriate here in Turkey (and I live in
Central Anatolia, not in the West) who left the country out of fear of
the PKK, or is paranoid about PKK threats: we just decided not to go
"too much" east, period. Overall, we all fully agree that, *even with*
the PKK threat, we are much safer here than we'd be in many other parts
of this world, including (especially?) our own Western countries.
Turkey is wonderful, as you said, so enjoy it! So why avoid places you
like, but that have (extremely) low risks? You don't stop driving your
car, or flying cross-country, or whatever, just because there are
certain risks, eh? Well, I think you *don't* increase these everyday
risks by coming to western or central Turkey! You might even reduce
them...
---
From: ga@chmt.wits.ac.za (Gokhan Akbay)
Newsgroups: rec.travel, soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Turkey?
Date: August 1994
>kocero@hacktic.nl (mirzo mirzo) writes:
>>[...] I'm thinking about a last minute trip to Turkey, leaving
>>Sept 10. Any advice on weather conditions, places to go, not to go, etc
>>would be much appreciated.
>DON'T GO.
>There is a war in Turkey between the Kurds and Turkish Government.
>Every penny you will spend in that country will be used for buying
>weapons that will be used against the Kurdish population.
>It is also for your own safety.
There's nothing dangerous but some operations against PKK terrorists on
the south-east part of Turkey. You may safely go and have a nice
holiday on the west and south coasts of Turkey, which are some of the
most beautiful places in the world, especially Marmaris, Bodrum,
Alanya, Antalya, Kas, Cesme, Kusadasi, etc. The weather conditions
during the first half of September on the mentioned places are
perfect. You may do all kind of sea-sports.
[Editor's note: This is your typical thread about safety in Turkey:
somebody asks an innocent question, some Turkophobe
intimidates her/him with biased and incomplete information,
some Turk[-ophile] counters with some facts and a pamphlet
on Turkey's resorts that are finally no different from any
others in the world.]
---
From: nalipson@mbox.riga.lv (Nathan Alexander Lipson)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
Subject: Re: Midnight Express
Date: July 1995
hellas@digital.net wrote:
> MIDNIGHT EXPRESS is the TRUE story of an American tourist, who was
> caught by the Turkish police, trying to pass hashish out of Turkey.
> The film shows us the barbaric situation that exists in Turkey, the
> human rights abuses, and the insanity of the government.
Oliver Stone, who created that film, is a shameless sleaze monger. To
the extent that the story is true, that dumb American drug smuggler was
unlucky. You "hellas", are contemptible for trying to recycle the
horrific images of the film, 20 years on, in your perpetual campaign to
vilify Turkey. For the most part, Turkey is a civilized country, and
foreigners are treated with respect -- provided they don't get involved
in military politics or drug-trafficking. The Turkish state is not a
socialist democratic institution, any Turk will tell you. But the task
of ruling Turkey is extraordinarily difficult.
[...]
To be fair, Greeks certainly do have good historical reason to loathe
Turkey. But Turkish society has changed so much in the past 20 years,
that young Greeks should look to the future.
I love Greece, but I dislike attitudes stereotypical of a Greece from a
time that has passed. Greece will never reconquer Anatolia. I'm
confident that most Greeks reading Usenet are more reasonable and
realistic than the minority who post these inflammatory ... ah ....
flames.
[Editor's note: Well-said, Nate! I would also add that the "dumb
American drug smuggler" himself denies many scenes
of the film: for instance, he was in a low security
prison, and he did not kill a guard to get out.]
---
From: llustig@delphi.com (Larry Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.misc
Subject: Re: Women traveling in Turkey
Date: June 1995
>we are a young couple and we intend to travel to Turkey in
>summer. [...] So our major concern is that we will have
>a lot of hassle because of sexual harassment.
Turkey is a wonderful country with friendly, helpful people. It is
true that it is difficult to be "left alone", but this is largely
because people approach you constantly to meet you, and buy you tea.
It's one of the places in the world that I have felt the safest
travelling.
However, things are a bit different for women. In the major cities (at
least in Istanbul) there is a certain amount of liberalism in dress and
customs. Outside the big cities, however, women should maintain a
conservative mode of dress: such as a long skirt, a blouse with
sleeves, and, preferably, a head scarf. For a woman alone, even
speaking to a man (other than a shopkeeper) not related to her can be
considered flirtatious. If you're together most of the time and
respect the local ways of doing things, you should get along fine.
Crossing to/from Greece/Italy/Georgia/Iran
From: pf@bilkent.edu.tr (Pierre Flener)
To: Somebody@Some.Where (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Ferries between Turkey and Greece/Italy
Date: August 1994
There are ferries from/to the Greek islands that are closest to Turkey:
Kos <--> Bodrum (is said to be the cheapest)
Rhodos <--> Marmaris
Chios <--> CeSme
Lesbos <--> AyvalIk
Samos <--> KuSadasI
but they are horrendously overpriced for an average of 2 hours passage.
Trips from Greece to Turkey include payment of a hefty harbor tax (~$35
total), but not vice-versa (~$?? total). Day-round-trips from Greece
are cheaper. Overnight round-trips from Greece thus are expensive, and
furthermore invalidate any return-ticket of any charter-flight you had
to Greece (the Turkish entry/exit stamps are highly visible in your
passport, and Greek authorities don't want to see these because you are
supposed to spend your money in Greece). If you are on a one-way trip
between Greece and Turkey, it's thus advisable to hop from Turkey to
the first Greek island, rather than the other way round! These ferries
usually can take a few cars (but I'm afraid that will be very expensive).
There also is a weekly ferry from Santorini to Marmaris via Crete,
Karpathos, and Rhodos.
There are *no* other ferries to Greece, not even to Athens. Getting
to/from Athens by ferry is a 2-step operation: first hop to the nearest
Greek island, and then get the next ferry from there to Athens (or
vice-versa).
Weekly ferries go from Venice/Ancona (Italy) to Izmir/Cesme/Marmaris/
Antalya: ask your travel agent, and mention Turkish Maritime Lines.
These are big ferries (mostly used by car/caravan/truck-drivers), and
take 2.5 days (3 nights). No passages in the off-season.
(I think) there are ferries from KuSadasI to Italy, on Italian
companies, but they don't stop in Greece either.
These are looong trips, but not too expensive.
---
From: pf@bilkent.edu.tr (Pierre Flener)
To: Somebody@Some.Where (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Ferries between Turkey and Greece
Date: August 1994
>Do you know about ferries from these Greek islands (near Turkey) to
>Athens. Are there regular services?
Virtually every Greek island has regular and frequent services (often
overnight) to Athens, and definitely all those ones along the Turkish
coast. So this is absolutely no problem.
>We are trying to get from Istanbul to Athens, preferably by bus&/boat
>(since it's cheaper than air) in one day. Do you think it's practical?
By train: almost 24h from istanbul to Thessaloniki (I know this is
absurdly long, although border formalities "only" take ~2h; legend has
it that people took a stroll off the train and easily jumped back onto
it again ;-), and then almost another day by train to Athens. So this
option is only for die-hard train-fans, especially that the train is
likely to be more than full in high- season. Buy 2 tickets, rather
than only 1: the first up to the Greek border, the second from there to
Athens. Much cheaper.
By bus, along the train route: not much faster. Same ticketing
technique recommended for savings.
By direct boat: impossible. (There are Turkey <--> Italy ferries,
crossing the Channel of Corinth, but not docking anywhere in Greece.)
By air: not so expensive after all. Look for bucket shops in istanbul,
near the Blue Mosque on Divan Yolu. The only means to make it in one day.
But why do this trip in one day? There are many interesting things to
see along the way! Turkey's most perfect mosque, the Selimiye Camii,
is in Edirne. Mt. Olympus, the throne of Jupiter, awaits your ascent
south of Thessaloniki. A little in-land, the world-famous and unique
Meteora monasteries beg a visit. And endlessly so on. Take your time!
---
From: rwarrick@america.net (Mary Ellen & Dick Warrick)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.travel-l
Subject: Re: Greece and Turkey
Date: June 1995
We just returned from a 7 week visit to Greece and Turkey (2 weeks in
Turkey).
We had absolutely no problem with border crossings. [...]
I frequently used ATMs in both countries. Some banks would take my bank
debit card (Plus system) but many wouldn't. I generally had no problem
with Visa or Master Card. I'm not sure but I think that Master Card was
better accepted. A few times I had to try several banks and several
cards to get one to work. I think I didn't notice was that there was a
limit on the amount of cash you could withdraw. Several times when the
ATM wouldn't give me any money, I think it was because I was asking for
too much. They never said so, just refused to honor my card. If you
have problems, you might ask for a smaller amount. [...] Availability
depends on where you will be going. The large towns all have many banks
with ATMs. We spent several days in Cappadocia (Goreme) and had to drive
to a nearby town for an ATM (Urgup).
---
From: jack@cee.hw.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Turkey border crossing from Georgia?
Date: April 1994
>Is it possible to cross into Turkey from Tbilisi, Georgia? Air, train,
>whatever.
This information is two years old, and I'd like an update if anyone has
one:
What country are you a citizen of? I tried to go the other way. There
are *very* cheap buses between Trabzon and Sochi, but these only takes
Turkish and ex-Soviet citizens. (You get what you pay for, these were
some of the worst buses I've ever seen). Others needed to go by boat
or fly; the visa was expensive and the fares were extortionate.
---
From: smortaz@handel.Eng.Sun.COM (Shahrokh Mortazavi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian, soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Crossing frontier area Turkey/Iran
Date: September 1994
>[...] The question that's bothering me most is this: how difficult
>(or perhaps: how easy) is it going to be to cross the Turkish/Iranian
>border? I mean, with the Kurdish problem over there (hey, peace to
>all!), is it dangerous for a western (Dutch) tourist to cross the
>area?
You might want to check out the book `A survival guide to visiting
Iran' (or something close to that). It lists all the do's, dont's,
and gotcha's of visiting Iran under iri.
[Editor's note: The mentioned book is David St. Vincent's excellent
"Iran - A Travel Survival Kit", from Lonely Planet (1992).
Any of the guidebooks on Turkey (see section 2 of this
online guide) should also give you valuable information
on this border crossing.
Briefly:
+ it seems (according to my own recent experience) right
now _impossible_ to go to Iran on a *tourist-visa* _w/o_
taking a (hugely expensive) package tour, unless you are
from a country with which Iran has agreements (usually
countries with Muslim populations).
+ however, *transit-visas* for Iran (usually between
Turkey and Pakistan) are usually _easy_ to obtain at
Iranian consulates, w/i 24hrs and for a small fee (valid
for 7 days, but apparently easy to extend once in Iran),
especially when you are from a European Union country.
Some consuls (e.g., the one in Ankara) require a letter
of recommendation from your own embassy, which is often
a difficult business: the trick is to pretend to your own
authorities that you will apply for a _tourist-visa_ *and*
_fly_ into Iran, because otherwise they fear you'll travel
_overland_ and be kidnapped by the PKK, and they will
refuse to write such a letter of recommendation for you.]
Buses, Trains, Car Rentals, Taxis
From: pf@cs.duke.edu (Pierre Flener)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Buses and Trains in Turkey
Date: 1990 [but still valid]
>Once in Turkey.... Use the bus system... It is cheap, and they speak
>English at the bus stations. Dress for hot hot weather, and take
>plenty of drinking water on the bus.
Although I fully agree on the benefits of the marvelous Turkish bus
system [cheap; reliable; relatively fast (expect average 60km/h, stops
included); reserved seats only; some buses have A/C; frequent stops for
relaxing; no communication problem when buying your seat; and many
more], I don't understand why you suggest taking water on the bus!
Indeed, I have traveled for several thousand miles on Turkish buses all
over the country, and I always benefited from the following service:
+ free mineral water (cooled, sealed bottles; seemingly unlimited
supplies);
+ free "eau de cologne" after every stop, for refreshing your hands &
face.
Richer companies even offer you chocolate sweets, ... Yes, buses are
definitely a good way to discover Turkey and the Turks.
On the other hand, stay clear of the trains, except on the istanbul -
Ankara line (9h), with excellent overnight connections, and the
istanbul - izmir line (11h), with a ferry-ride across the Marmara Sea,
where tremendous improvements have been made in recent years. Trains
are cheaper than buses, but on others than the two lines above
incredibly slow and often overcrowded.
---
From: tuglua@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Ali Tuglu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Travel in Turkey - info needed
Date: February 1994
>I'm going to visit Turkey in April, for a conference in Antalya:
> -Traveling from Istanbul to Antalya: train or car?
No train connection between Istanbul and Antalya. Use the bus system,
the most convenient and economical one. I would suggest the companies
Ulusoy or Varan.
[Editor's note: These companies are the top-bracket, which means pricey
and slooow. For almost half the price, and virtually
the same quality, and faster travel, try Pamukkale/Kamil
KoC/any-other-company-with-a-fancy-ticket-office.]
> - Hotels and restaurants near the main roads: prices, type of food,
>some suggestions of menus?
If you take the companies I have suggested, it will be no problem.
[Editor's note: This will be pricey and bad highway food...]
> - Best (touristic) route, for a one or two full day trip?
Along the coast, by car. But tiring, I believe.
> - Interesting places to visit in that route?
So many, get a map! But 2 days is not enough.
> - Price of gasoline, high-way tolls, taxis, rent-a-car?
I am not sure about these ones. I would say higher than you would
expect.
[Editor's note: Gas is about $0.60/liter.
Very cheap highway tolls: about $1.5 per 100km.
Taxis are dirt-cheap and usually have working meters.
I have no info about rental cars.]
---
From: Jay_Mann@equinox.gen.nz (Jay Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Buses in Turkey
Date: April 1994
Turkish buses are fascinating, frequent, with excellent coverage of the
country. They are also filled with cigarette smoke, day and night.
After a number of bad experiences, I would only travel in them if I had
a seat right in the front, where there's a fighting chance for a breath
of fresh air.
[Editor's note: All upper-class bus companies have air-conditioned
buses, and some even start introducing non-smoking
trips on major hauls (but avoid seats near the driver,
as he might be chain-smoking all the way...).]
---
From: Gail_Anderman@lamg.com (Gail Anderman)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia
Subject: Re: Turkey tips needed
Date: April 1995
Turkish inter city buses are on-time, air-conditioned Mercedes Benzes
with great suspension systems and amazingly low fares. (A comfortable
6 hour trip costs under $20, shorter ones much less.)
---
From: gokanerk@ix.netcom.com (Erkut Gokan)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
Subject: Re: Eastern Turkey: Real advice wanted
Date: June 1995
I have not been to Eastern Turkey for a long time. But I know renting
a car one way is either not possible or prohibitively expensive. Also,
Eastern Turkey is very mountainous and the roads can be somewhat
challenging for someone who is not used to driving in that region.
The rest of Turkey is very pleasurable to drive.
Your best bet would be to rent the car from, and return it to Antalya.
Keep in mind that gasoline is expensive in Turkey as it is in Western
Europe. So driving a car over long distances can be an expensive
choice.
[Editor's note: Gas prices are cheaper than in *any* European country,
but, at about $0.60/liter, stand of course no comparison
to oil producing countries.]
Alternatively, you may want to try taking buses (The bus system is very
good, a lot better than it is in the US. The buses are very new and they
go everywhere on frequent schedules. Also don't take that Greek
rubbish seriously about buses being stopped by soldiers every 50 km.
Very recently I took some Europeans and Americans with me to Turkey.
We traveled many thousand miles. Nobody ever stopped our bus or asked
for an id. Actually, many people told me how secure they had felt in
Turkey--even more so than in the US). The rest of the time you can
take taxis. They are inexpensive, but be sure to negotiate before you
accept a ride with unmetered taxis.
The Turkish people are very friendly, especially in rural areas.
Treating guests well is something like a matter of honor. People may
invite you to their houses to dine and/or to stay. Turks take pride in
their hospitality.
It may be helpful to speak a few Turkish words. Also Europeans
indicated to me that more people understood German in Turkey than
English. This is due to 2 million Turkish workers living in Germany.
Itineraries
From: luttrell@netcom.com (Jordan D. Luttrell)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia
Subject: Re: Turkey tips needed
Date: April 1995
We spent some two to three weeks in Turkey in late May, two years ago,
and enjoyed it tremendously. I have never heard *anyone* say they
didn't enjoy Turkey. A great choice.
I would say, however, that the Aegean was the least favorite part of
our trip. That is the part of Turkey which is the most exposed to
Western tourism, and where you are most likely to encounter an
"us-them" response from the Turks.
My own first choice in Turkey would be to go inland, for sure to
Cappadocia and then to a little town on a vast lake, Egirdir. There
was a wonderful travel article which we followed almost religiously and
which, if you are interested, I will copy and send to you. It took us,
among other places, to Afyon where in a nearby locale we sampled, on
the ground, three different civilizations, going as far back as the
Hittites. This was almost worth the price of the whole trip itself.
We also enjoyed Istanbul tremendously. [...]
---
From: sinan@ittpub.nl (Sinan ???)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Turkey
Date: March 1994
>Hi. I'm going to be in Turkey for about a week in July and I was
>wondering which cities are recommended along the route from Istanbul
>to Marmaris.
Istanbul - Bursa (ex-capital of the Ottoman empire) - Ayvalik (Aegean
coast town) - Izmir (3rd largest city) - Cesme (sea resort) - Kusadasi
(sea resort & Virgin Mary's house & Ephesus antique city) - Didim (sea
resort & Apollon temple) - Fethiye, Bodrum, Koycegiz, Gocek (all
seaside towns/townships).
[Editor's note: In high season, these places are totally overrun by
tourists.]
---
From: jack@cee.hw.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Turkey in June/July: Info please
Date: April 1994
>Villages and small hotels (with air conditioning) that are off the
>beaten path and can be used as a base of operations for exploration?
You will hardly find air conditioning anywhere except in big-city
luxury hotels. Thank God. The country has enough of an energy problem
without squandering it on this crap.
>Interesting auto routes?
Get the Turk Turing ve Otomobil Kurumu's guidebook. This has *masses*
of information on motoring in Turkey. Last I saw it was only available
in Turkish but even if you only have a few words of the language you'll
still be able to get far more out of it than from any English-language
source I've seen. The TTOK's headquarters is in Sisli, Istanbul. Say
hello to Zeynep from me if you visit them. They are very helpful.
---
From: Gary Oliver (karakomik@delphi.com)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Turkey in June/July: Info please
Date: April 1994
I was in Turkey for 4 weeks last September, and did the reverse of what
you present - went from Istanbul to Ankara to Antalya, from there
rented a car and drove along the coast to Izmir. The trip was
wonderful, but if I had to do it over, I would do the opposite -- from
Istanbul to the Aegean (or Ege Deniz in Turkish) around to Antalya.
[...] Do you speak Turkish? If not, I would recommend that you take
tours of Cappadocia and Ephesus. The tours are very inexpensive and
usually led by eager-to-please college students.
[Editor's note: "Very inexpensive" only if you have a lot of money...]
Turkey is a very large country, and I don't know how you travel, but I
would not attempt to explore much of the Black Sea (Kara Deniz) coast
and do everything else you listed in 4 to 5 weeks. Budget had the best
prices on car rentals then (about $50US a day for 7 or more days).
I really enjoyed my trip to Turkey - the people are hard-working and
very friendly. I have fantasized about moving there. If you would
like more information from me, just ask.
Istanbul
From: pf@bilkent.edu.tr (Pierre Flener)
To: Somebody@Some.Where (name withheld)
Subject: Re: istanbul
Date: May 1994
The cheapest hotels are to the left upon leaving the European-side
RW-station (Sirkeci), in Sultanahmet, and in Aksaray/Lale.
If it is a city-map you are looking for: don't buy one, as they give
you convenient ones for free at the tourist information stand between
Aya Sofia and the Blue Mosque.
A hint that will save you a lot of money: go to "GenCtur" (a travel
agency on Yerebatan caddesi) and buy a YIEE-card (Youth Int'l
Educational Exchange) for ~$3. They might not check if you really are
a student, but there might be a restriction to people younger than 26.
This card gets you free entrance to all the State museums, e.g. Aya
Sofia, TopkapI Palace (except the Harem), the Yerebatan Cistern, etc.
My favorites in istanbul are: the three big mosques (Aya Sofia,
Sultanahmet a.k.a. the Blue Mosque, the Suleymaniye), the TopkapI
palace/museum, the Islamic museum on the Hippodrome, the Grand Bazaar
and Egyptian Bazaar (don't buy anything inside though: huge savings if
you buy the same stuff just outside), the Galata tower, the DolmabahCe
palace/museum, a Bosphorus crossing to the Asian side (nice sunsets
over the big mosques: ideal for dinner!), a Bosphorus cruise up to the
Black Sea, a Marmara Sea trip to the Princes' Islands, the Yerebatan
Cistern (see "James Bond: From Russia with Love" afterwards). You can
easily do most of this in 3 days. "Advanced" visitors will travel
along the Golden Horn to the "Pierre Loti" Cafe and the wonderful Eyup
mosque nearby (it's a holy shrine), they will visit the superb Sokullu
mosque next to the KUCUk Aya Sofya near KumkapI (it's small, but
perfect in its proportions, and thus much easier to comprehend than the
big ones). "Real" (tm) Turkey can be seen when leaving the Egyptian
Bazaar at the far end (compared to the Bosphorus) and taking the street
parallel to the Golden Horn (but not the one along the Golden Horn):
you'll walk past (decaying) Ottoman wooden houses and experience a very
lively market street with typical Ottoman compartmentation into
specializations: fruits, veggies, hammers, safes, shoes, shovels,
clothes, nails, and endlessly so on, until the first bridge or so. Or
go on a Sunday afternoon to YIldIz ParkI to get a lesson on family life
(the park between TopkapI and the RW station also does it). I
personally don't like so much the tourist-traps or show-cases, like the
Ottoman house street (mostly pensions) along the TopkapI walls, or
Taksim Square and the pedestrian istiklal caddesi leading to it, or the
KumkapI fish restaurants, CiCek PasajI on istiklal caddesi, etc.
---
From: peterson@cs.umass.edu (Jon Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Help: Istanbul accommodations - reservations
Date: January 1994
>Can anyone suggest a place that is reasonably priced (ie. under $30
>double) that would accept reservations? I would appreciate any personal
>recommendations along with phone numbers and, even better, fax numbers.
>A place that would take reservations in English would be ideal (my
>Turkish is non-existent).
I was in Istanbul in the summer of '91, as a backpacker, and found that
cheap lodging was very easy to come by. I don't know if you can
reserve a room at these places in advance... but frankly I don't think
it will be necessary. First of all, even in June -- when, presumably,
there will be the greatest number of travelers seeking cheap lodging --
there were many vacancies. Secondly, you expressed a little
nervousness about arriving late at night. But Turks seem to stay up
and about rather late into the night -- at midnight, there is still
much activity, both social and commercial. So probably you'll be able
to find something, unless your flight is greatly delayed (in which case
it would probably be wisest to wait until light anyway). Of course,
it's possible that life in Istanbul is entirely different in the
winter, so take this advice with a grain of salt.
[Editor's note: Winter is *no* problem either.]
[...] in the Sultanahmet district [...] There are numerous small
hotels, all reasonably inexpensive (we paid around US$4 or $5 per
person per night, for a room for three, and a bathroom shared on the
floor, in that area; if you're used to back-packing and finding
accommodations later you should have no problems. Also, the
Sultanahmet district is only about a five or ten minute walk from
Topkapi palace, the Blue Mosque, and other sites of interest.
It's a wonderful city. Enjoy your trip.
---
From: sinan@ittpub.nl (Sinan ???)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Istanbul - travel to and exploring?
Date: March 1994
>> What on earth should I see in Istanbul?
>
> Covered Bazaar.
> Suleymaniye Mosque (Blue Mosque)
> Hagia Sophia
> Bosphorus
> Topkapi Palace & Museum
> Old city
The Water Cistern. Located a few 100 feet from Aya Sofia, for a
nominal fee (~1US$) you go below the city into an enormous chamber,
filled with columns, arches, and water. Built 1200 years ago (if
memory serves) to supply water to the city, you walk in the half light
listening to classical music, examining the pillars, feeling
awe/peace. Very cool and relaxing.
Also, while the guide books can be extremely helpful, they also can
tend to steer people wrong. Case in point: two separate publications
mention the "Sultan Pub" as the place to go. Don't. Filled with rich
American students, the prices were higher than prices in the U.S. for
beers and food. Go a few blocks to someone (anyone!) more authentic,
and it will be worth it.
---
From: Gail_Anderman@lamg.com (Gail Anderman)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia
Subject: Re: Turkey tips needed
Date: April 1995
Istanbul is a fascinating, world-class city. The Sultanahmet area,
where the Blue Mosque, Aga Sophia Church, Topkapi Palace and numerous
other city highlights are located, is the best place to stay. [...]
We also recommend seeing the Whirling Dervishes perform their riveting
religious ceremony at 5 pm the last Sunday of most months in their
Museum of Divan Literature. Most guidebooks don't mention it. Call
212/245-4141 to verify date and time.
Central Anatolia: Ankara, Cappadocia, etc.
From: Gail_Anderman@lamg.com (Gail Anderman)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia
Subject: Re: Turkey tips needed
Date: April 1995
Ankara is Turkey's capital and was the noisiest, smoggiest, costliest,
dirtiest city we saw in the country! Despite its fine Museum of
Anatolian Civilization, we do not recommend staying here except as a
quick overnight to cut the long bus trip from Cappadocia to Bursa or
Istanbul.
[Editor's note: Very few people will agree with this review! Ankara
is much more livable, tremendously cheaper, and also
greener than Istanbul. As a very big city, it should
not be compared with small towns. Admittedly, except
for the sensational museum, it has not much to keep
the traveler for more than a night.]
Bursa is a charming city with fine architecture, gardens, mausoleums of
the earliest sultans, and excellent public transportation. Dont miss
the scenic cable car ride up Uludag mountain where you can hike for
miles along quiet trails through the pines. We also enjoyed the
Turkish baths, separated by sex, at the lovely old Eski Kaplikalari
Hamam near the Hotel Karavansaray Terminal. (I enjoyed bath, massage,
and body scrub for $6.)
Cappadocia is fascinating with its fairy chimney rock formations,
houses cut into the soft lava rock, and three underground cities (each
can house up to 20,000 people!) which were carved in the rock 1,000
years ago by Byzantine Christians protecting themselves from invading
Ottomans. The whole area makes for fascinating sight-seeing and/or
hiking.
---
From: pf@bilkent.edu.tr (Pierre Flener)
To: Somebody@Some.Where (name withheld)
Subject: Re: Cappadocia
Date: September 1994
In Cappadocia, you must see the openair museums of GOreme and Zelve,
climb the troglodyte fortresses of uChisar and ortahisar, visit the
potters in Avanos, taste the wine in UrgUp, trek in the GUllUdere and
KIzIlcIkur valleys behind CavuSin, and many others. If you have your
own set of wheels, visit an underground city (KaymaklI, Derinkuyu, or
MazIkOy), the canyon of the ihlara Valley, and one of the nearby
caravanserais.
---
From: TGQA18A@prodigy.com (William Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
Subject: Re: Pamukkale (and area)
Date: June 1995
It was many years ago that I was in Pamukkale (1977) but I still
remember it as one of the most fantastic sights I've ever seen (the
calcium cliffs just hanging there above a vast plain and very nice warm
water to wade in). [...] There is very little to do in Pamukkale, not
really a town at all. Besides the water and cliffs, there are old
ruins of Hierapolis at the site. The water was considered curative in
classical times and there are many tombs in the area. I'd say it is
worth the trip. At least for a night's stay; more fun pursuits can be
found in other towns.
[Editor's Note: BEWARE!!! The site is destroyed in the meantime, in the
sense that the greedy hotels on top of the falls feed
the water 6 days out of 7 into their pools, so that you
would be lucky to see any water on the falls at all.
There are cigarette butts and other trash floating around,
not to mention that the calcium cliffs aren't exactly
white any more, especially because the road to the hotels
leads virtually through the falls. In 1986 already (!),
I didn't heed triple advice not to go there, and then I
absolutely hated the place. Ever since, I discourage
whoever asks me about it, but most people don't
believe me and go out of their ways to get there anyway,
but later confirm that I was absolutely right! Unless
you want to learn how to totally wreck a natural wonder,
going there is a complete waste of time: boycott the place!]
---
From: Gail_Anderman@lamg.com (Gail Anderman)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia
Subject: Re: Turkey tips needed
Date: April 1995
Egirdir: Major highlights of our trip were this cool, mountain lake
village (2 1/2 hours north of Antalya) [...]. Here we enjoyed the
beach, lake swimming, row boating, delicious home cooked dinners with
our fellow guests, a colorful Sunday market in a nearby smaller
village, and a fine all day taxi-tour during which we hiked through
shady Andir Canyon taking time to swim in cool waters at the base of
beautiful waterfalls. [...]
Mediterranean Coast: Antalya, Fethiye, etc.
From: E65963@TRMETU.BITNET (???)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Antalya
Date: June 1994
The Antalya Region, bathed in sunshine for 300 days of the year is a
paradise of sun-bathing and swimming and of sporting activities like
wind surfing, waterskiing, sailing, mountain climbing, hunting, and
caving. If you come to Antalya in March or April, you can ski in the
mornings, and in the afternoons swim in the warm waters of the
Mediterranean. Important historical sites await your discovery amid a
landscape of pine forests, olive, and citrus groves, and palm, avocado,
and banana plantations.
The Turkish Riviera is Turkey's tourism capital. Its full range of
accommodations, from tourist class to deluxe hotels, and the hospitable
people of Antalya, will make your holiday comfortable and enjoyable.
The region around Antalya offers astonishing natural beauty as well as
awesome historical remains. You can walk behind a cascade, a thrilling
experience, at the upper Duden waterfalls, 14km northeast of Antalya.
On the way to Lara Beach, the lower Duden waterfalls plunge straight
into the sea. The Kursunlu waterfalls and Nilufer lake, both 18km from
Antalya are two more places of superb natural beauty....
Saklikent, 50km from Antalya is an ideal winter sports resort on the
northern slopes of Bakirli Mountain at an altitude of 1750-1900m. In
the eastern side of Can Mountain, 30km from Antalya, the Karain cave,
which dates from the Paleolithic Age (50,000 BC), is the site of the
oldest settlement in Turkey. The ruins of the city of Termessos are
set inside Gulluk Dagi, which is a national park in the northwest of
Antalya.
Although the Manavgat waterfalls are not high, milky white, foaming
water rushes powerfully over the rocks. Next to the waterfalls, shady
tea gardens and restaurants make the falls a pleasant, cool rest spot.
You can take a delightful boat trip up the Manavgat river to explore
further this lovely area.
Side, one of the best known classical sites in Turkey, was an ancient
harbor. Today a pretty resort town, its ancient ruins, two sandy
beaches, many shops and tourist accommodations attract throngs of
visitors.
[Editor's note: In high season, these places are totally overrun by
tourists.]
---
From: E65963@TRMETU.BITNET (???)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Fethiye
Date: June 1994
Fethiye, 120km east from Marmaris, overlooks another beautiful bay
strewn with islands, but its popular resort has a charm and beauty all
its own. The houses look down on the little port from a hill crowned by
the ruins of a fortress built by the Knights of Rhodes.
Again it is a delight to sail out to the islands, or explore the many
coves and inlets with lovely beaches along the coast. Especially
beautiful is Oludeniz, a calm lagoon of crystal-clear water, ideal for
swimming and sailing, with pine forests along its shores.
At Fethiye, known as Telmessus in ancient times, there are numerous
Lykian rock tombs cut out of the cliff face, with carved facades
reproducing the buildings of those far-off times. The most remarkable
is that known now as the Tomb of Amyntas, which probably dates from the
4th century BC. Its facade has two ionic columns, over which there is
a pediment above a frieze. The tomb chamber is reached through a small
opening which can be closed by a movable slab of stone.
[Editor's note: In high season, these places are totally overrun by
tourists.]
---
From: Gail_Anderman@lamg.com (Gail Anderman)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia
Subject: Re: Turkey tips needed
Date: April 1995
Southwestern coastal towns are lovely with their archaeological ruins,
beaches, and waters. All-day boat rides and mini-bus tours often
included lunch and cost about $12 per person. Highlights included: the
Seluk area for sightseeing, the ruins of Ephesus, Priene, and lovely
Pamuak Beach lined with 1 and 2 bedroom housekeeping bungalows for $30
and $40 per night; and Dalyan, with views of Lykian rock tombs [...],
and the [...] boat trip to the Caunus ruins, Turtle Beach, thermal mud
baths, and a swim in clear Lake Kyceriz. Pretty Kas had our favorite
all-day swimming and ruins-viewing boat ride, as well as pleasant,
unpressured browsing in its handicraft shops.
Aegean Coast: Izmir, Bodrum, Marmaris, etc.
From: E65963@TRMETU.BITNET (???)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Marmaris
Date: June 1994
Marmaris, approximately 100km from Dalaman Airport, where the Aegean
meets the Mediterranean, is one of the most beautiful holiday areas in
Turkey. Here pine forests stretch down to the shores of an immense bay
dotted with tiny islands, bringing cooling breezes even in the heat of
summer.
Marmaris has everything for all members of the family. Alongside the
old fishing port is the modern yacht marina. All along the shores of
the almost land-locked bay are beaches of golden sand. The clear calm
sea is warm enough for swimming from June to late September. You can
find here fine modern hotels, or simple restaurants in quiet coves.
Elsewhere lively discotheques are located by the shore, and the safe
bathing makes this an ideal spot for children's holidays.
Boats ferry passengers to and from the hotels around the great bay.
Or hire a boat yourself (your hotel will help you) and explore the many
islands in the bay and picnic and swim from a beach that is all your own.
[Editor's note: In high season, these places are totally overrun by
tourists.]
---
From: rich002@ibm.net (Richard Blacklock)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.misc
Subject: Re: Troy
Date: June 1995
In regards to Troy, while it is amazing to be at the site where Troy
once was, there really isn't a lot to see, and I think you would be
disappointed after such a lengthy drive. The drive down the Aegean
coast however is quite beautiful, especially as you get to the
southwestern part of Turkey.
---
From: avci@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU (Ayhan Varol Bayer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.travel-l
Subject: Re: Turkey
Date: March 1995
>We like the colors of the sea and nice, clean sandy beaches, calm coves.
>We were told that the izmir-bodrum-marmaris region can offer this
1. Kusadasi: Major touristic city and entertainment and shopping center.
Nice and clean beaches on National Park 20km far to Kusadasi. You can
find many beaches in and near Kusadasi but in the National Park, forest
and sea hug each other.
DO NOT forget to visit Virgin Mary House (very important especially for
Christians) and Ephesus (major harbor city of Ionia), Sirince Village
(typical village) near Kusadasi (10km).
2. DIDYMA (Golden Sand): Very famous place with its beautiful sandy beach.
From Kusadasi to Didyma you can visit on the way some historical places
such as Priene, Miletos, Apollo temple.
3. GOKOVA: Natural and clean beaches with wonderful sight seeing.
4. MARMARIS: Major touristic city with many entertainment centers and
shopping centers. Around there you can find many beaches.
5. BODRUM: Major historical touristic city like Marmaris but there is a
castle which is an underwater museum now. I know that this is the best
underwater museum in the world because there are many unique things from
very old times that were discovered by American and Turkish researchers.
This is only a summary. You can find there many beautiful places.
Cuisine
From: jack@cee.hw.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.travel, soc.culture.turkish, rec.food.cooking
Subject: ayran (yogurt drink)
Date: March 1994
>While [in Istanbul], I became addicted to the local drink involving
>yogurt. Anyone remember its name and a recipe for me (sour yogurt and
>water)?
It's called ayran. It's a mixture of yogurt, salt and water served
chilled. The best yogurts for this are full-fat live ones; here I
prefer the "Pakav" or "Pakeeza" brands you get in Indian/Pakistani
shops, but the Greek ones work OK too though they're more expensive.
Don't bother if all you can get is some reduced-fat, killed,
added-emulsifier or even (urgh) sweetened kind.
A good book on Turkish food is Nevin Halici's "Turkish Cooking", though
for anyone who's been there the pictures make it difficult not to
impulse-buy the next time you go past a travel agents.
Other cold drinks you shouldn't miss in Turkey: vishne (sour cherry
cordial), shira (lightly fermented grape juice, a summer specialty),
boza ("lightly fermented sweetened wheat porridge", I suppose you'd
call it - it tastes a lot better than that description suggests; it's a
winter specialty made by the same people who do shira).
---
From: mue@cony.gsf.de (Bernhard Muenzer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish, rec.food.cooking
Subject: Re: ayran (yogurt drink)
Date: March 1994
I tried (cultured) buttermilk with water and salt, and found it a good
substitute if no sour yoghurt is available.
Nostalgia
From: lower@sfu.ca (Stephen K. Lower)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: A visitor's appreciation of Turkey
Date: April 1994
We just returned from a delightful and interesting holiday in Turkey,
ranging by air and bus between Kayseri and Istanbul. We were
impressed, above all, by the warmth and friendliness of the people we
met, and secondly, by the excellent food, especially in Konya.
Several things we especially liked, which would be Turkey's major
contributions to the world (or at least to North America if North
America would only accept them):
Ayran (the yogurt drink), which we now make at home. Something like
the lassi of India.
The dolmuS (shared taxi) -- given the large number of localities in
N.A. without any public transport, this would seem an ideal solution.
Those "bottom-washers" on modern Turkish toilets; a great
contribution to personal hygiene, simpler and more convenient than
the European bidet. I am considering installing one at home, but
will have to do something about our very cold water!
[Editor's note: Beware! Westerners don't have the same immunity levels
as Middle Eastern people, precisely because they were
raised to use toilet paper. Unless you thoroughly wash
your hands after each trip to the toilet, you might soon
regret your preference for this new experience. Also
note that Middle Eastern people do this with their left
hands, and *everything else* with their right hands
(hence reducing the infection risks), whereas Westerners
tend to use both hands indiscriminately.]
Turkish classical and traditional music; we brought back a number of
tapes and CDs (as well as a saz). It's a shame that this aspect of
Turkey's rich culture is so little known in the West.