Ripped work in the Top 10 list

hirez.org - discussions: Announcements: Ripped work in the Top 10 list
By
Mongi on Thursday, December 17, 1998 - 10:44 am:

After some research I've come to the conclusion that one pic in the Top10 list is really a rip. It is the fifth pic, ir-bfaer.jpg by Iris of Hallucigenia. The staff in HAL have been notified and they are trying to get hold of Iris. I have also been trying to get in contact with Iris to hear his (or her?) story, but without success. Since I am going on vacation tomorrow, and I felt I had to publish this before the next Top10 list, I decided to post it before hearing the ripper's story.

Below are links to the pic and the original:

http://www.hirez.org/images/reviews/ir-bfaer.jpg - rip
http://www.hirez.org/images/reviews/irisrip.jpg - scan of original.

The original pic is from a book called "Good Faeries, Bad Faeries" by Brian Froud. The filename of the rip also indicates that it's from that particular book.

To proove it's a rip, I've compared the pics. If you shrink the scanned pic i bit, and rotate it a bit, it aligns perfectly with the rip. There is no distorting of the pic involved. Furthermore, if you change the hue, the colors end up the same. The relative colors between the body and the belly are exactly the same. The lensflare added in the pic is positioned where the "ball" is in the original. The monster in the background have been cut out. The rip have been blurred a bit and saved in pretty low quality jpeg.

I will not replace the pic in the top10 list, but I will make an indication it isn't "valid" and a rip.

If Iris sees this post, I hope you will reply and tell us your story. If you are in contact with Iris, please tell him/her to reply here.
BAD Iris!


By God among Lice on Thursday, December 17, 1998 - 08:06 pm:

arghh.

was afraid something like this would happen.

Why don't we replace iris's name with Brian Froud's on the top ten list? ;)

blehhh. a very special "fuck you" goes out to iris.

I was wondering why someone who drew a pic like that would fuck it up with useless lens flares. Now I know.


By Leonardo.iCE on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 07:11 am:

maaaaaaaaaaaaaan... that sucks, I hate seeing rips. I liked that pic too. Its SO disappointing.


By Root88 on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 09:26 am:

Next months packs haven't even come out yet but some artists give me a sneek peek of what is to come. Already, I have found an obvious rip. Should we point out the rip in the pack and embarass the artist? Should we just ignore the artists work an pretend it wasn't even part of the pic pack?

I wouldn't do it, but using another artists work in your pic isn't necessarily wrong (this includes photographers) but you at least have to give them credit in your work. The rip I am looking at is an unretouched scan from a book. The picture is exaxtly the same except for the signature. Personally, I see this as grounds for decapitation, what should we do?


By Leonardo.iCE on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 11:40 am:

Well, I think the artist should be exploited to the fullest AND embarrased. Ripping has never and never will be tolerated in the scene, it is a discrace to whatever group hes from. A ripped peice of artwork should NEVER be release if its found before the release date (sadly, it usually isn't). Now, if I ran a group and I found that an artist had ripped, I would keep it hush hush and queitly remove that person from the member list. A group's repuation is very important to all the members of the group, its embarrising to everyone.

Its sad that people have to rip.. and yes, a retouched scan IS a rip UNLESS he discribes exactly what he is doing and shows the original scan to staffer. Nobody should cheet their way into getting respect as an artist. The main reason I release artwork in the scene is because I like to show off my talent, and I like hearing people's feedback and critisism - not for respect.

the bottom line - ripping is not art, rippers do not belong in the art scene.

Leonardo.iCE


By F7 on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 01:11 pm:

this kinda thing is happening more and more with new people in the hirez scene.. the thing is.. I just cant understand why.


By Darkmage on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 01:43 pm:

The up and coming end of our generation is filled with nothing but fucking clones and media zombies. Society no longer produces people capable of either original thought or visually representing the same.

It is a safe assumption that every once and a while one of these fucking wastes of carbon will not only get hold of a scanner, but somehow figure out how to plug it in.

Fuck em all. I'd rather display an original piece of shit than a stolen masterpiece.

-darkmage[iCE] (angst is cool)


By F7 on Saturday, December 19, 1998 - 11:22 am:

yeah.. your right.. its not their fault though.. what else would one become other than a clone when their daily life is influenced by a media that is only about 1 or 2% factual.. oh well.. time for a revolution.. but thats not gonna happen till aids is cured.. people are so much more likely to think for themselves when they can have sex =)


By Etana on Saturday, December 19, 1998 - 11:44 am:

Many of you don't know me, but I am the head of Hallucigenia and I think it should be my responsibility to speak on behalf of my group. I had planned on keeping this quiet until we had the chance to get to the bottom of it, but because of this message thread that no longer seems to be an option.

I first heard of this a week ago from my hirez coordinator who had been contacted by someone from Hirez.Org. Since then I have tried to get in touch with Iris but, thus far, there has been no response--it being the holidays, that doesn't really surprise me. I would like to offer Iris a chance to respond before giving final judgement, but I do understand my responsibilities as a group leader in this situation. Therefore, Iris' submitted work has been removed from Hallucigenia's upcoming December pack. Further action will not occur until after I have heard from Iris.

This is the second time the ripping issue has plagued Hallucigenia and it is not something we take lightly. The first time was an ansi rip in our first pack and the ripper was expelled from the group even though it cost us our entire ansi department--as the ripper was our only contact to those people. However, I would like to say in defense of Iris and my group, that the majority of Hallucigenia's artists are not 'scene' born and bred and do not know its ways. If someone is responsible for the releasing of a ripped piece of artwork then it is me, since it was my responsibility to inform my artists what the protocols of the scene are and to ensure that all the work Hallucigenia releases meets those unwritten rules. So, if you are going to damn someone for this, then damn me.

No group wants to go through this. It's a horrible mark on the reputation of the group and it's generally no fun for any of us involved. All I can say is that Hallucigenia is a good, strong, talented group and very serious about making its mark on the scene. I hope that, despite this blemish to our record, people will continue downloading our packs and offering us the chance that we deserve.

Please feel free to discuss this issue, or any others, with the staff of Hallucigenia.


-Etana--
group coordinator
Hallucigenia Art Collective


By Dangermouse on Saturday, December 19, 1998 - 04:32 pm:

Yeah, I know you Etana.. And I have to say I'm impressed with your frank and to the point response to this thread. Yes, I would have to agree that we need to hear Iris' view on this, but you have to admit its pretty damned obvious he ripped anothers work without giving the original artist due credit.

That's all you need to tell your artists: If you use anothers work as a base for your own (this applies to photo-manip artists more), then for god's sake give the original artist credit. Even though we are the "underground" scene, we must all still realise that in the real world such things are pretty much against the law.

That maybe a bit extreme, but I'm sure if someone used anothers work for their own ends in more arty farty circles, they would be crucified if found out...


By God among Lice on Sunday, December 20, 1998 - 03:51 pm:

Etana: just thought I'd say that I think you've got the right attitude about all this, and I'm sure you'll handle everything appropriately.

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself though.. :)

I can understand your situation.. When I was running fire's hirez division, it was discovered that one of our artists and a favorite in the scene, Winbee, had ripped artwork that was released in our pack. To this day I don't really know the extent of how much he ripped since he released with us for a long time with a similar style the whole time. It could be possible that the guy was a complete fraud, and that idea just hurts me a lot.

In any case.. just keep doing what you think's right and I'm sure Hal will keep on going well.


By Whoreimot on Sunday, December 20, 1998 - 11:47 pm:

iris's work isn't any worse rip than other photo-funboys pieces on packs. for example, is incognitio using a original photo on his top ten's work?
maybe it's drawn but there's just a bunch of guys
getting a freeway to "scenefame top-tens" cause it doesnt need brainz. so is the "media-art" of society too, but people doesnt understand yet that things are going to be more realistic oriented. cause there's too much crap on the air.
art haven't ever been more easy than to leech a photo from web and mess it with plugz, that's what loosers are doing.
Ken's work is amazing - takes lot's of skills to draw the friends of yours for a picture.. so is Ståhlberg's whore technically too. grim's always dope, but this month weren't his best.

lately i've thought that scene is get rid of poor dragon- try-outs or stupid "hobby-dark" stuff but i'm wrong. that's ancient tradition from '93. nothing wrong with it if you're all about that so it's original for you (are suppoced to do that (that's life))but are most of the kids trying to scare the shit out from us others cause they are just playing stupid roles. :) yes they are. long live spawn.


By OptikNurv on Monday, December 21, 1998 - 11:24 am:

I Just like to Say a thing er two regarding IriS'z RIp....

I introduced IriS to the HiRez scene....She iz a very talented artist, but knew nothing of the "Rulz" in the Art Scene..

Well,...for entertainment here iz the story behind the RIP:

IriS scanned the pic from, yes, Good Faeries,.Bad Faeries. She didn't do it to claim another artist's werk nor to make the "Top Ten".
She did it to learn how to use the toolz available on photoshop..I told her it would be a good way to learn the medium.
After she was done with it, I sent the pic to Silent Knight (of HAL) and asked him what he thought of it..He then sent it to Et (HAL'z leader). Et then asked me to recruit her for the group. So I did.

IriS submitted some werk for the Nov Pak. Et then rearranged her submissions and replaced some of her werk with the "RIP" piece ( I geuss she liked it) No Fault to Et of course she didn't know it was a scanned pic.

IriS didn't know the "rulz" and never intentionally broke them anyhow... It was all jus a mistake in the submission process..
However, she knowz them REAL well now due to the Harsh flaming and length of the posts on Hirez.org
If NEone wants to condemn an artist for what happened then damn me,..Not IriS,..Nor Et or HAL... I was the one who told her to learn with a scanned pic,...I sent it to SK,..And I never told them it was scanned art...(although it wasn't for release)

So if you must Damn then Damn me...But before you do...Get over yourselves...We all started somewhere and had to learn the "Rulz" before we could follow them..

L8rz...optik


By Dangermouse on Monday, December 21, 1998 - 01:42 pm:

Welp, that closes this thread..


By God among Lice on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 02:35 am:

not until I apologize for the premature "fuck you". :) sorry for being so harsh before hearing the entire story.


By Etana on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 09:11 am:

Well, one last thing before we close this thread. I think it's pretty obvious that this situation wasn't a case of ripping, just a case of messed up communication lines and honest mistakes. I won't punish Iris for that. She can stay and release with Hallucigenia for as long as she wants.

And that, as they say, is that.


By Root88 on Tuesday, December 22, 1998 - 09:49 am:

I would just like to give Mongi props, for taking the time to find proof that it was a rip, and doing such a great job in general here at hirez.org. I would also like to commend him for not flaming Iris and waiting until the true story came out. You're a real pro Mongi.


By Starr on Wednesday, December 23, 1998 - 12:09 am:

etana:
it's not a case of messed up communication lines and honest mistakes. it's because people don't know what is right and what is wrong or don't care. Ask Clinton, he knows.. that's the bottomline. even the idea of adding a sign to a work by someone else is fucked up.
but after all, in god we trust, so we're all gonna be saved.


By Etana on Wednesday, December 23, 1998 - 08:52 pm:

starr: If people don't know what's right from wrong than it's someone responsibility to teach them and, if they fail to heed that warning, then you have to start laying down the punishment. You might argue that ignorance of the rules is not a just defense, however I think a little flexibility and attention to the particular circumstances can go a long way. With regard to this situation, all that matters in my mind is that it never happens again.


By Sykes on Friday, December 25, 1998 - 07:03 am:

I'm looking to hire someone to design some web related buttons/icons. Email me if you're available.


By God among Lice on Friday, December 25, 1998 - 11:23 pm:

uhm. sykes: you're WAY out of context here. :)

try the "Announcements" section.


By God among Lice on Saturday, December 26, 1998 - 04:46 pm:

er.. stupid me. this IS the announcements section. :)

Just start a new topic in this section, is what I meant.


By Dangermouse on Saturday, December 26, 1998 - 08:17 pm:

Hahaha..


By Mongi on Friday, January 8, 1999 - 10:06 am:

Just one final note. (I've been in Hong Kong, remember?). I personally did not flame anyone in my intial post. I have no responsibility whatsoever if anyone else says something stupid.


By Blup.ACiD on Sunday, January 17, 1999 - 05:21 pm:

MmmmMMmmmMMmmm, while the thread is really ancient, i'm wondering how one of my yet-to-be-released pics would stand in the light of ripping. okay, what happens is that I scanned in a pix of a model's face from a magazine, and i use it as a basis for the finished work. I assign it to an alpha channel so i'm painting underneath it in my usual airbrushing style. So effectively i'm completely redrawing the face with a few enchancements here and there. I state the pix is based on another picture in the SAUCE notes. So is it ripping if i *redraw* the original?

mmmmmmmmm....


By Jae on Tuesday, January 26, 1999 - 06:38 pm:

i wonder who iris is.. because when i was talking to starks awhile back, he specifically asked me what i thought of some 'iris' pic in this pack.. but i never got the pack so i didnt know what he was talking about.. i assumed he was using the name iris and might have ripped something else.. who knows..


By Jae on Tuesday, January 26, 1999 - 06:51 pm:

this is for optiknerv: one rule you should learn that using words like 'rulz' and 'werk' went out in the scene in '95 and its annoying and hard to read. tone it down a bit, please :)


By OptikNurv on Tuesday, January 26, 1999 - 09:06 pm:

For Jae: Well,...I release my Art in your "scene" because It allows for the most feedback... And so if My termz are rudementery well,...Fuk it. As for /whois IriS....well she's my wife not starks former idenity or any shit like that.

For the chosen ones: ..Wait ,...An Idea,...How about every one in the scene stop flipping out about the way someone communicates,..or who they really are and How they are acomplishing there picz,... and for a bit just produce/enjoy the Art?. ..Hmmm


By Jae on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 01:13 pm:

for opticknerv: i brought that up about starks before i read further down. he said something to me about it and i thought it was something i should throw out there..

and as far the rest of it goes.. you seem to be pretty new around here yourself.. maybe you dont realize that some of us have been around in the scene since '92 and some of us create all of our stuff ourselves and yeah it pisses us off when we find people with ripped off art and getting recognition for it.. thats how it is.. nobody knew about any 'story'.. that it was a 'test pic' or whatever.. if someone finds a rip, theyre going to bring it up.. i dont know how long this pack has been out, but i didnt see you or anybody else going out of their way to let people know it was a 'test pic' until word was going around that it was ripped..

and i'm not trying to be a dick here.. im just saying how it is.. you shouldnt go around telling us to 'get over ourselves'.. we just dont like seeing rippers get away with this shit when we put all our effort into doing it ourselves..


By Darkmage on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 02:06 pm:

jae kicks ass

-darkmage[iCE]


By God among Lice on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 09:05 pm:

Jae: I think he has reason to be upset since it's been discussed thoroughly right here and completely explained, yet you didn't seem to read any of that when you posted..

No "ripper" got away with any shit in this case, and you're bringing all of this up more than a month after the details have been explained. Your posts here looked just as strangely out of place to me as I'm sure they did to optik nurv. I really thought this discussion should have been over a month ago.


By OptikNurv on Wednesday, January 27, 1999 - 09:08 pm:

Well,..new as I may be...I know how long the "Scene" has been around.... and I know who the ORIGINAL HiRez artist were/are...

And Sure,...I understand getting ticked over a rip.. Y wouldn't you..Same as I do,..as well as someone doing art in another medium, scanning it into a dig format and calling it HiRez art without ever touching it from there...

My point that I was trying to make is that there is far to much bullshit in the "scene"
Metaphorically[sic?] speaking think of punk rock..
it was the shit in late 70's early 80's....then people starting laying down the "rules" to be punk.. completely forgeting what Punk was all about,... it became a clique/trend,...thats what killed it,... I would hate to see the Art "scene" have the same fate,... I just think everyone should step back every now and again and think about what we are doing....Art.

and ohh,...BTW the "story" on IriS's rip wasn't talked about sooner because we were outta the net for a month due to moving,...And didn't even know it was released till the thread was already endless.

regards,..optikNurv


By Jae on Thursday, January 28, 1999 - 10:51 am:

anyways.. i'm done.. lice: yeah i see what youre saying, but what i'm saying is i got to ALL of these boards late.. i saw the announcement and alot of posts about it, so i figured it was still going on and posted.. no big deal.

onurv: we're cool.. yeah i try and avoid the scene as much as possible.. so i can get more work done or whatever.. i still like to see whats going on some though, so i come here.. anyways..
thats all.


By Mongi on Friday, January 29, 1999 - 01:37 am:

I don't like the punk rock comparison, the artscene is nothing like it. It isn't a trend. You're not an artist because it's cool, a lot of people think we're computer geeks anyway =)


By Pussyneck on Friday, January 29, 1999 - 05:44 am:

Kurt cobain is dead!


By OptikNurv on Friday, January 29, 1999 - 08:48 am:

You missed the point I guess....

oh well,...Fuk it..


By Funbaby on Friday, January 29, 1999 - 09:06 am:

Punk rock? A trend? A 25 year trend? :P


By Mongi on Saturday, January 30, 1999 - 03:49 am:

Well yeah, punk wannabe trend. not the real thing.


By Necro on Saturday, January 30, 1999 - 04:00 pm:

I'm gonna make a big fat RIP and after I did that,
I'm gonna sue the original drawer and accuse him of ripping my artwork!


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