i was just thinking about how a lot of doodleboys dabble in the forbidden fruits. so i thought we should all talk about them. :)
i lub E
ahhh yEah.
I have never taken drugs in my life, and I never will.. But that doesn't mean I hate people who take them, it means drugs just aren't for me personally.
90% of the time I'm stoned when I draw... it helps me focus. I've also drawn a little while tripping, I created this pic entirely on acid :P
btw, alchohol and drawing do not mix.
Leo
Every artists gets in that beloved "d00dle zone" when ideas and creations flow seemlessly.
Sometimes drugs help get you in "THE ZONE"
Leo
In the past month or two I've really noticed a lot of drug talk on irc.. It really kinda surprised me, and it seemed suddenly more widespread and apparent to me than it had in the past.
Has anyone else noticed this? Does anyone think that there are actually more people in the scene using various drugs? Or am I just suddenly waking up to the reality?
Just to say, I never do any drugs, almost never drink alcohol, don't touch coffee. I prefer controlling myself over using other things to control/change me.
yeah, artists love E.
but taking XTC means being a quinea pig for chemical industry (or whatever is in the pill =). the long term effects aren't known yet,
what is known is that it spends(takes) your brains serotosine levels DOWN and if you or your family have a tendency for depression - you might beware of long long hard days in future because your normal rehabilition skills for handling shit up are fucked up :).
I'm straight-edge by coincidence, not affiliation, (so no alcohol, smoking, drugs, and, for the time being, sex) but have found myself frequently leaning towards self-dosing by natural means, mostly through prolonged sleep deprivation. I'm currently up about 22 hours a day and get about 4 hours of sleep. For those of you who are good at math, yes, that doesn't equal 24 - over the past week I've been getting up two hours later and later every day. Soon I'll be back at my original wake-up time.
I've mentionned a few times my participation in the annual literary marathon Anvil Press puts on - the 3-day (72-hour) Labour Day Weekend novel-writing contest. Last time my friends (in apology for wasting a precious 2-3 hours of my novel-writing time) caffeinated me with a special (it came in the "Surreal"-sized cup) batch of Mexican hot chocolate and, compounded with the j0lt cola and three two-litre jugs of Coke, I got so jittery that I was overcaffeinated, hands shaking so ferociously that I couldn't type, so I had to sit it out for another four hours. Never again 8)
I find myself subject to a mild intoxication when I haven't slept - it's easier to talk and everyone seems to find everything I say & do amusing. Sleep deprivation works as a social lubricant for me as alcohol does for others, and that makes it dangerously seductive. Don't go over four days or else you start permanently frying your brain.
Remember that Star Trek episode where people were having dreams during waking life? It's worse 8)
god damn, ct, you need some sleep! =)
isn't staying awake over 48 hours (instead of four days) melting the brain like snorking some gas? as without sleep the brain doesn't recover and the memories aren't recorded. continuing years of staying awake could mean a heart-attack in 40's.
i've noticed the more alcohol and smoking there is, the more sleep i need. 13 hours isn't much with some days of partying.
don't let the reality take too much of you when you can get some advice from dreams :>
i don't think many of you would be surprised if i told you that i.. *ahem*.. do drugs.
however, i can't draw when i'm on shrooms. one time i tried, and i couldn't find the f5 key. go figure.
Tomi - I have a friend who is a sort of drug connoisseur. He's done everything at least once, and when he seriously advised me to get some sleep and listed some repercussions, I listened. Chronic sleep deprivation is worse than all of the things he's done, except maybe licking the cane toad.
As far as other drugs go... my acquaintances are more the medicated types than the recreational users, though there are individuals who fit both groups. Who here is on antidepresants? I would never do such a thing (I don't even take aspirin or cough syrup) but I've heard that there can be some surreal side effects, like the early version of Prozac which made you climax whenever you yawned 8). If you take DMT in conjunction with Zoloft, they hypothesize that it causes a hallucinogenic state that never ends, like trepanation but worse 8)
Though I am not a drug user, I am the master of the 101 natural highs. Ask me about sufi dervish spinning or self-flagellation or prolonged radar screen exposure or tantric sex 8)
But DON'T, whatever you do, ask me about Scientology. My head will blow up.
Cthulu--
"Straight edge by coincidence" -- I like that. :) Describes me pretty well. I'm generally repulsed by drugs and alcohol (Lice put it perfectly - "prefer controlling myself over using other things to control/change me"), but I don't like the self-righteous attitude of most sXe types, either.
Pot, LSD (that one in particular) and shrooms brought me to a new level of awareness. I don't know if I could have attained it without them (certainly not as quickly), but well, here I am now.
(!!@#)
Yea.. I always gotta scratch my head when I hear the "higher level of awareness" line, at least when used in that kind of permanent sense.
Actually.. I see thext said "new level of awareness". I guess that doesn't have to mean higher. Different, maybe. :)
I personally feel pretty fucking aware on my own. :)
Fun, Awareness of this thread I'd say..
tomi, from what i read, it doesn't really take the serotosine levels down, it just blocks them.
but who knows. plus i think that only happens if you do it a lot.
in any case, i'm pretty jinxed, so i might as well decide my own fate then get by a car when i'm 80, or something. :)
oh yeah i forgot.. heh.
i don't really like drawing when i'm on drugs. chances are, the only drug i'm ever really on at home is weed. and i dunno, i get a headache if i sit here and stare at the screen. :) plus i don't wanna be at home alone on other drugs, what a waste. :)
photomanipping unsober is probably harder than ansi, cuz you have layers :) i bet people freak out when looking at difference or color burn layers :)... youd be surprised, not only can i not create while under the influence, people have asumed i do, saying my work was hallucinogenic (whatever :P).... i have done drugs, (hasnt everyone)... pot i dont do cuz i have asthma... shrooms was fun (but wheres f5 dammit)... i idle in #sfraves, so you can guess the rest :P.... hmm.... everone should check out bonse's drug inspired pack... its hrg-baka or something, really nice.
Anyone whose only link to creative inspiration is getting fucked up on drugs needs to get a fucking life.
Anyone who has to roll on X to "really feel" needs to find a better peice of ass.
Anyone who can't laugh without smoking out needs to get professional help.
Anyone who has to trip on shrooms to see all the pretty colors needs to get a fucking clue.
Anyone out there that is actually ignorant enough to fuck with anything that has to be injected, snorted, chemically engineered or any combination of the three, needs to continue what they are doing, so they will die and free up some space for the useful people in this world.
Just as an afterthought, if anyone is actually so pathetic that they depend on alcohol, caffeine, or nicotine to be creative...heh...bullets cost about $.06
That's my two cents on drugs & art. Any questions, comments, or complaints may be directed to my cousin if you should happen to drive through Knoxville, TN. He can't talk to us mortal folk anymore, but I'm sure the words on his headstone have answers enough for anyone that still needs them.
-darkmage[iCE]
"Was it you that painted this or your bong?"
Nice argument there, darkmage.
Drugs are bad because, well, you said so.
I don't use drugs and your platform sounds shaky either to me 8)
hah hah.
thext has no shrooms.
>Just as an afterthought, if anyone is actually so pathetic that they depend on alcohol, caffeine,
>or nicotine to be creative...heh...bullets cost about $.06
Darkmage -- Where are you buying your ammunition! Because everytime I go to the shooting range I spend a MINIMUM of $50.00 every fucking time! I could sure use the saturday night specials you're getting!
There's nothing wrong with experimental or recreational drug use. There have been numerous studies that occassional drug-usage is beneficial more than detrimental to overall life.
-R
darkmage, if your cousin was a poor junkie, that doesnt mean we all are. do you dare us? what do you know after all from drugs or their creative ways, or spirituality?
"so they will die and free up some space for the useful people in this world. "
let me tell you the usefull people here have been using 1/3 of the resources of the globe in past 25 years, that and all that useful commercial bullshit is a joke. i'd recommend clinton some inhales & sex rather than messing with business that have nothing to do with the americans.
what's more useful in you than in me? it's all that egoistic powerhungry health-nazism.
i doesnt look for sceneart anymore, ofcos leeching last acid & hrg packs (and some ansis), because i get so much more from real life friend's works.
at scene, i know how the works are done, from friends works i have no idea how they have done 'em. this time, a work that opens in first look is really nothing but a picture. nice, good or not.
i don't want to die or to be the most rich and most healthy person in graveyard and waste my life totally without knowing the deeper size of life. for me, a artist that doesnt do 40's and smoke weed aren't a artist, he's illustrator without some exceptions. find someone else to tell you.
>size of life. for me, a artist that doesnt do 40's and smoke weed aren't a artist, >he's illustrator without some exceptions. find >someone else to tell you.
Ok. That line right there was REALLY gay.
lemme rephrase that..
"Ok. That line right there was REALLY REALLY gay."
ok maestro, i forget you were comix-ansister :)
"If you wan' be a poet boy, you gon' hafta learn ta DRINK." If the majority frequently engages in altered consciousness, then it may become necessary to experience that altered state to share a perspective.
Not being a smoker but going to cafes and bars to perform poetry means that I get the equivalent of a box or two just of second-hand smoke per performance.
"ok maestro, i forget you were comix-ansister :)"
Well I didn't forget that that line was..
REALLY REALLY REALLY GAY!
you're up to 3 REALLY's now.. watch yourself..
"'If you wan' be a poet boy, you gon' hafta learn ta DRINK.' If the majority frequently engages in altered consciousness, then it may become necessary to experience that altered state to share a perspective."
So I guess there's no way around it then.. I have to drink 40's, smoke weed and listen to snoop dog before I can be an artist and relate to imot.
Doh. Momma told me there would be days like this.
Hmm, so I guess to understand where a suicide victim is coming from I need to slit my wrists or down a bottle of sleeping pills. I guess until then I can never truly understand what it's like to feel sorrow or deep anguish or self contempt or..
See where I'm coming from yet?
Nowhere did I say that every perspective, or even a majority perspective, is necessarily worth being exposed to. The rarer a state of being is (either of uncommon knowledge/experience in one area or uncommon ignorance/innocence of it) the more divergence it will display - these are people that change the world.
The geniuses and the ultimate idiots.
oh baby.
How commercialism and nazism made their way into this discussion is beyond me. If you have to chemically or physically alter yourself to get through the day, or to produce something, or to have a good time, you are just plain fucking lame.
And how did Clinton get brought up? Who gives a fuck about that clown?
As for this 'deeper size of life' bullshit ... well, it's bullshit. Drugs are for pussies that can't do it on their own.
-darkmage [iCE]
it's not a question of worth.. it's a question of being able to relate without necessarily being fully in that individual(s) shoes.. good god man.. talk plain and stop trying to sweeten up your lost point with candy coated lyrics because they're just going to fall from your mouth and melt in your hand.
bust it.
"How commercialism and nazism made their way into this discussion is beyond me"
That's the doodle boy/wannabe socially aware artiste way of saying "I can't really think of anything smart to say and I don't really have a strong ground for my argument so I'll say something about nazi's and fascism to sound elite." It's actually very common amongst people that don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
Sorry for my "candy coated lyrics", that's just the way I speak, because I have an educated mind and I use it, apparently unlike many of the people here. Just think, lay off the drugs for a while, read some books, and maybe you could speak your language fluently.
But, in the interest of reaching everyone, here it is plain (again):
--------------------------------------------------------------
Drugs are for pussies that can't do it on their own.
--------------------------------------------------------------
-darkmage [iCE]
dude. i was refering to cthulu not you buttmunch. read what i quoted.
anyone else find it funny that this is the most active topic? or is it just me :)
nevermind. i never quoted. guess i'm the buttmuch.
cthulu: (too avoid any confusion this time)
it's not a question of worth.. it's a question of being able to relate without necessarily being fully in that individual(s) shoes.. good god man.. talk plain and stop trying to sweeten up your lost point with candy coated lyrics because they're just going to fall from your mouth and melt in your hand.
bust it.
darkmage, if you EVER watched a movie, went and ate eggs one morning instead of bacon (becuase you got sick of eating the same thing over and over again) ever had any type of medicine inside of your body, ever just did something becuase you're bored, then you are a hypocrite.
big fuckin deal if we do drugs. by your statement, all you do is sit in an empty room with empty walls, no sounds or anything, just sitting there with a smile on your face.
you can't tell me you never did anything becuase you were bored.
"Anyone who has to roll on X to "really feel" needs to find a better peice of ass."
did YOU ever do something to make yourself feel better? wether it be E or just watching tv?
"Anyone who can't laugh without smoking out needs to get professional help. "
did YOU ever do something to make yourself feel better? wether it be weed or just watching tv?
"Anyone who has to trip on shrooms to see all the pretty colors needs to get a fucking clue. "
did YOU ever do something to make yourself feel better? wether it be shrooms or just watching tv?
about your cousin, yeah that sucks that happened. but would you be anti cars if he was driving too fast and crashed?
Darkmage HAS made few valid points here which should be noted, and some weak attacks. If you rely upon chemicals as a means to accomplish things you should stop and think twice.
But who's to say Darkmage isn't the pussy for not experimenting once in a while?
-R
drugs.. wow. i can say i've more than just experimented. i'll be straight up.. i'm a big fucking pothead. love it. done acid, x, speed, cocaine (tho not heavily the last two), nitrous (who hasn't? :), pcp, etc.
and the funny thing is, i don't drink .. can't stand it, have no tolerence for it. is this abnormal? :)
misfit / iCE
Rad - you summed up my point pretty well
" but who's to say that Darkmage isn't the pussy for not experimenting _more_" would be a little more accurate. I've been there, I've done that, and I don't ever want to do it again.
filth - if you had actually read what I wrote, you might understand a bit better. I don't really give a shit if you choose to do drugs, I made that statement already. I don't wish any good to come of it, in fact I hope it causes nothing but problems and pain as reward for the ignorance, but I really don't care in the long run. We're talking about how lame it is to be a dependant, not whether drugs are morally right or wrong. I'm not any more anti-car than I am anti-drugs. I'm anti-ignorance, something which seems to be quite plentiful. Drugs just happen to be the current topic, and drugs are ignorant.
I watch movies often enough, I eat bacon AND eggs several times a week (although I do alternate between omelettes and sunny side up, waffles and pancakes, biscuit or toast, etc), I don't take medication unless I am violently ill (drink lots of water and sleep kids, works better than the medicine), frequently do things because I am bored, but do absolutely none of them because I _have_ to. Unlike you, I AM NOT FUCKING DEPENDANT ON GETTING FUCKED UP TO ENJOY MYSELF OR CREATE SOMETHING. You also seem to have confused inspiration with necessity. Do you really have so little free will? Are you really that lacking in your own imagination? Does the dream world not let you in unless you take another hit? You're a fucking follower man.
At the end of your life, will you be able to say with pride "Yes, I did it, and I did it all myself" or will you say "Yes, I tried to do it, and what things I did manage to accomplish, I owe to the same drugs that have brought me to this early end"?
-darkmage[iCE]
I've tried using drugs, now it's your turn to try using your mind.
darkmage, do you know what an oxymoron is?
uh anyways, who said anything about being dependent on drugs, OR, using drugs for inspriation. out of all your cheese comments, that's the only one i agree with. i don't NEED drugs to have a good time. i have better times doing other things than doing drugs, i just do drugs for an alternative entertainment. is there anything wrong with that? no of course not.
"I don't wish any good to come of it, in fact I hope it causes nothing but problems and pain as reward for the ignorance"
ignorance of what? woopty do if i like to do drugs. it doesn't make you any better.
also, doing drugs doesn't make me a follower. an empty insult like that is a pretty lame jab. it'd be like me going "you're just not doing drugs to be a follower dood!@"
get that stick outta yer ass and try to be a nice guy.
ahhh, i get a high off of replying to darkimage!@
anyways misfit, did you ever do nitrous while on E? the shit owns. :)
i do it cause i need the drug induced capibilities to escape reality, and draw some ansi.
darnit, brb, i need some special K to get me thru this.
..
....
whew ok.
"How commercialism and nazism made their way into this discussion is beyond me. If you have to chemically or physically alter yourself to get through the day, or to produce something, or to have a good time, you are just plain fucking lame."
how? you see, if you doesnt understand the language i'm talking i'd recommend some treatment :). when you tell me to do something, that's facism. when you tell me to die, that's nothing but it. going above someone is egoism. besides, you didnt tell what's more useful on you than in me? oh, do you pay more taxes?!
that's like if you need to live your fucking lame.
>Drugs are for pussies that can't do it on their own.
i don't need drugs to do something, but they can be a rich source of inspiration for some ppl. we doesnt even know who is doing and what when someone is doing something. you can channel things (open gates) to your brains from outside the brain i believe.
to do so is another thing.
if you stay inside the cave and model some 3d blocks, rotate 'em and make some big boobie comix chicks or scary vampires i understand you well - don't touch on anything but pepsi, cause what's on pipe is satan and he's gonna draw it for you! and the most important thing is, church, govenment and the parents doesnt like it.
>As for this 'deeper size of life' bullshit ...
can you back up it? no you can't. neither i can.
it's just a way of feeling and knowing that seeing seems to be different than before =)
if you would have said in medieval times that before the millenium we have a global network you have been burnt.
when i said that you can't be a artist without having experiences of drinking and smoking including some exceptions, it's imo. maybe your art can be for example sleeping - thus you could be a great artist. opinions, like i don't take anyone seriously who makes art that is a rich collegeboy having no experiences & downhills of life. :).
Darkmage: What is your platform on natural highs? (Meditation, oh heck, let's post an excerpt from the list...)
List of Natural Highs:
PART ONE: Just Your Self
Awareness
1.Concentration
2.Philosophical awareness
3.Sensory awareness
4.Biological awareness
5.Visceral awareness
6.Rhythmic and cyclic awareness
7.Ecological/planetary awareness
8.Semantic awareness
9.Self awareness
Positive techniques
10.Meditation
11.Prolonged observation
12.Problem solving
13.Fervent prayer
14.Long times at sea, in the desert, in the Arctic
15.Self-hypnotic
16.Alterations of breathing
17.Trance
18.Myths, tales and koans
19.Rituals
20.Chanting and mantras
21.Mudra
22.Meligious conversion
23.Spinning (dervish)
24.Extra-sensory perception
25.Visual illusions
26.Auditory illusions
27.Afterimages
28.Repetition
29.Psychological exercises
30.Mathematics
31.Continuous singing
32.Zen power yell
33.Poetry
34.Manual phosphene stimulation
35.Voluntary silence
Negative techniques
36.Suffering
37.Pain
38.Forbidden activities
39.Rage
40.Paranoia
41.Panic
42.Neurosis
43.Psychosis
44.Amnesia
45.Exhaustion
46.Delerium of high fevers
47.Epileptic seizure
48.Migraine
49.Narcotic withdrawl
50.Demonic possession
51.Self-flagellation
52.Fire-walking
53.Fasting
54.Sleep deprivation
55.Involuntary isolation
(there are almost 200 more in this list.)
Are all people who use any of these methods (rather, people who intentionally induce these states / use these methods) pansy-asses for choosing to expand their consciousness?
Note that I'm not at this point personally endorsing any of the above-named methods, only trying to get a position out of you.
anyone here recycling piss through the body?
piss? no, but i think alot of shit is going around because it seems to be coming out of everyone's mouth.
(OHHHHHH!)
I agree with darkmage that being dependant on a drug is wrong. But, a lot of people who do drugs AREN'T dependant on drugs, me being one of them :) I've never felt I HAD to do drugs to be happy or any shit like that. Its just fun to sit around with your friends and drink and smoke pot all day and accomplish absolutly NOTHING but get fucked up! and I'll say the onlt thing I'm addicted to is cigarettes, I can easily go from smoking 2-4 blunts a day to not smoking at all. I've slowed down my pot smoking a lot because of my girlfriend (but not completely, I try to take at least one hit a day ;)) I and I don't do ACiD very much anymore, not because I don't like it, but I just like to do it moderation, cuz I do think it fucks with your head :P I drink at least once a weekend. Never sniffed anything and shot up anything.
I love drugs, because I don't let them control my life. If drugs do control your life then I seriously recommend rehab! beleive me, I've seen ALOT people go strait downhill... mainly on coke and crystal, even some of my close friends.
Leo
My position:
Quite a list...
-Awareness
Awareness is directly opposite of ignorance. Using the abilities of your own mind to accomplish these levels of awareness is fine. If you need chemical help, you are hopelessly clueless.
-Positive techniques
"Prolonged observation, Problem solving
These are all exercises for the mind, using the mind.
"Fervent prayer"
More likely to get results from drugs.
"Long times at sea, in the desert, in the Arctic"
I've spent over a year on the water, and even with the sounds of F-14's launching round the clock, it was pretty relaxing. Sunrise and sunset on the open sea is pretty damn cool too.
"Mathematics"
Key to the universe.
"Myths, tales and koans"
Is this referring to telling them, listening to them, reading them, writing them, beleiving them? A bit vague.
"Visual/Auditory Illusions"
So long as they aren't drug induced.
The rest of the 'positive techniques':
If some individual can get something out of them, fine. I didn't see anything there that _requires_ the use of drugs, in fact they don't require anything but a mind and a body to move it around. So I don't see why they even got brought up, because they have absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said.
-Negative Techniques
"Suffering, Pain"
I can't see why someone would want to deliberately inflict these on themselves. However, "that which does not kill us...."
Pain and suffering are a fact of life.
"Narcotic withdrawl"
Is this referring to symptoms of withdrawl associated with breaking an addiction, or the use of narcotics as a means to withdraw from the real world? One good, one bad.
"Fire Walking"
Great party trick.
"Delerium of high fevers"
This is not fun. It should actually be listed as a subset of pain & suffering above.
"Demonic possession"
Great party trick.
"Self-flagellation"
If you _want_ to smell like shit...
The rest of the negative techniques:
I can't see any posible use for any of them. More importantly, they fail to have anything at all to do with the topic of drugs & art. And, most important of all, they are ignorant activities for people that deliberately cause them, and unfortunate conditions for people with medical or psychological problems.
Summary:
Basically your list asked me what I thought about using your self to better your self. Exercising your mind. If you had actually read anything I have written in this discussion, you wouldn't need to ask.
-darkmage[iCE]
Darkmage,
You are a self-proclaimed intellectual, no? If this is truly the case, why do all your posts have EXCESSIVE amounts of profanity? Do you need to use such narrow-minded terms to get your point across? If it's an impact you are trying to make, I suggest that you choose your words more carefully, because as it stands you are just making a total ass of yourself.
Vulgarity is partially a bi-product of 4 years in the Navy (you've heard the phrase "swear like a sailor"?) and partially for emphasis, since tone of voice doesn't do much good here. Dealing with ignorance (or, to be fair, what I perceive as ignorance) also makes me angry, and anger inhibits a person's ability to think and communicate clearly.
Add to that the fact that past attempts to put forth an opinion based solely on an intellectual argument have met with little success, both here and in the world outside of the scene, either being misconstrued, misread, or just plain not understood.
As for being a self-proclaimed intellectual ...well...not exactly. I am well read, well educated, and usually well mannered. Sometimes not. I have a strong mind and I use it, and I have very little if any respect or patience for those who are able but not willing to use their minds to their full extent, preferring instead to 'enhance' or 'expand' their awareness through the use of products that alter, restrict, or damage the normal processes of the human mind.
Making an ass of myself? Maybe. It happens from time to time. Doesn't pertain to anything in this argument though.
-darkmage[iCE]
Darkmage - you seemed to be against methods of inducing altered states in general, denouncing such people as weak and pathetic individuals. I was wondering if you would denounce someone who practised non-narcotic methods of leading to the same end as similarly afflicted?
If I get a brain buzz from smoking a rolled-up leaf, is that inherently worse than getting a brain buzz from endorphins released when I cut myself up, get a tattoo or get beaten with birch branches after running out of the sauna into the snow to improve circulation?
You don't seem so against drugs as much as against all forms of voluntary perception manipulation. Are you against the substances or the activities?
Is someone who chews gum or whittles to relieve desires to smoke any more or less despicable than a confirmed smoker of large, smelly cigars?
Are runners addicted to the burn of passing "the wall" (when your body runs out of glucose to burn and starts burning fat directly) or body-builders who get high off of adrenaline release similarly spineless creatures?
DMT is a fairly restricted hallucinogenic substances which, when not synthesized, can be found in a natural form in the human brain released while dreaming. Are conscious DMT-users worse than everyday dreamers because they intentionally induce the state?
I'm not talking about drugs per se, but I am talking about altered states which are surely topical to both drug use and art.
in my opinion drug use is ok, as long as you don't do it because:
a) of peer pressure, or
b) you're addicted to the drug
however:
a) do a bit of research before you take a certain drug
b) it should be your own, personal choice
and if it is your own personal choice, nobody else should have anything to say about it, unless of course you have a friend who is concerned for your health/well-being, but that's different than saying "drugs are for pussies".
altered state.. hrmm.. that's kind of a vague term, isn't it? i'm never in the same state of mind twice, ever. that's the beauty of life, it's always different. no event is the same.
some people say that taking drugs to feel good is "cheating". you should be high on life, that's all you need! i say, hey, guess what, we use tools everyday in our lives. that's all drugs are, tools. we shouldn't be obsessed with them, but using them once in a while to feel "different" should be alright. if you disagree with me, turn off your computer right now, and use the "natural" form of communication instead, speech. and for the love of god, stop using calculators, do everything in your head.
Cthulu-
Q: "I was wondering if you would denounce someone who practised non-narcotic methods of leading to the same end as similarly afflicted? "
A: "Basically your list asked me what I thought about using your self to better your self. Exercising your mind. If you had actually read anything I have written in this discussion, you wouldn't need to ask."
Q: "Are you against the substances or the activities?"
A: "Basically your list asked me what I thought about using your self to better your self. Exercising your mind. If you had actually read anything I have written in this discussion, you wouldn't need to ask."
When I was in grade school, I used to make myself pass out with my friends. I would hyper-ventilate , then hold my breath, then apply some pressure on my throat. and boom, I was out like a lite.
Pretty stupid I know.. but kids are pretty stupid y'know.
Leo
Darkmage - I wanted more specific answers, which is why my follow-up message included more specific examples.
Then again, if you had read my message you wouldn't have needed to sound so ignorantly patronizing 8)
personally i feel that people who use drugs to escape reality are pretty lame. and people who let themselves get addicted are lame as well. also using drugs for a creative outlet means you're as creative as a rock.
but darkmage, i don't use drugs for any of these things. and when it comes down to it, i've gotten higher off things in life, other than narcotics. i like to consider myself an artist, and you could say i get a high off some of the things i've created (not just ansi). i've achived many things through my art, and that gives me a high that drugs can't. and i _love_ music. if you ask me, music is one of the most powerful non-nartcotic drug ever. ever been to a punk show? that'll fuck you up worse than any drug (good or bad). and not to mention my girlfriend. she's all i need for my body. (but oh well, she does drugs to, so heh.)
so why do i do drugs? i can simply answer it - why not? i like to have fun. and no, i don't need drugs to have fun. but i like to do drugs, becuase of the fact that they _are_ fun. when i goto parties and my friends are drinking, smokin weed, rollin on e, or all of the above, chances are i'll do it. and it's not becuase of peer pressure, it's not becuase i want to look cool. i do it becuase i ENJOY doing it. there's no difference between doing drugs with your friends or say going rock climbing. it's all a matter of taste.
so if you don't see that darkmage, YOU are the one who is ignorant, not me, or other people who partake in the magical word of drugs.
I'm running out of different ways to say the exact same thing. Specific examples of a point I have already responded to make little difference.
You keep listing ends that are fine in my book but you provide means to those ends that are not.
You list natural reactions to a natural action and try and equate it with a chemically induced state of being.
I have no problem with expanding awareness.
I have no problem with dreaming.
I have no problem with a having a good time.
I have a problem with dependancies that damage the mind.
I have a problem with artificial means that damage the mind.
I have a problem with people who will so vehemently argue on behalf of their own unique creative talents, then attribute their creativity to something other than themselves.
I have a problem with people who deliberately damage the most incredible tool for creativity that we mortals will ever see.
Quite frankly, it pisses me off to see such potential creativity, inspiration, and productivity being destroyed and forgotten under the premise of 'expanding awareness'.
I really have nothing further to say about it, other than the fact that it really is a shame.
You've made your choices, I've made mine. I can live with mine. How long can you do the same?
-darkamge[iCE]
you all make valid points, but i gotta go along with filth and leo on this one.. as long as you can handle yourself, i really see nothing wrong with drugs. i get high because i *enjoy* it. like some people will jog every morning or collect stamps. and there are benefits too. smoking a joint will get rid of a headache faster than your average over the counter crap :).
misfit
---
apathy founder / iCE ansi pimpdaddy
"You've made your choices, I've made mine. I can live with mine. How long can you do the same?"
if you're sick of repeating yourself, stop asking questions. i'm not a fourtune teller, but chances are, i have a better chance of dying of oldage, carwreck, snakebite, or the rapture, then i do from drug usage.
-begin useless off topic comment-
Speaking of chances of dieing.. Remember when there was that huge Powerball jackpot a while back? You actually had a better chance of freezing to death in Louisiana than of winning that jackpot. :)
-end useless off topic comment-
I refuse to listen to anyone's opinion on the matter that hasn't done them. Can you review a resturant if you haven't eaten there before? I have learned quite a few things about myself and others while eating mushrooms or LSD. Things I KNOW I couldn't have learned any other way. I admit that there are dangers involved, but overall I have learned a lot from the experiences. You need to show them respect though, don't do too much, and don't go into it thinking about getting a wicked buzz, or just looking at all the pretty colors. It's more than that.
I think that I have learned all that there is to learn from these substances, so I probably won't do them again, but I will never say that I regret it.
yeah i sort of agree. mainly with E. maybe i'm a typical "guy" but i never really get that close, or open up to my other guy friends. but whenever we do E with just a few amount of people,
and i'll tell ya, i never felt closer to my friends.
it's easy to open up to a girl and share your feelings, but not with your friends. sure some may say "duh if you need drugs to get close to your friends you need help" that's not true. me and other people are like that. i never would have achived the closeness to my friends if i hadn't have done that.
I sincerely feel that drugs helped me manage my money. For about a year, I was out of a job and I delt drugs and got by pretty damn well. Then I got a job and continued to sell drugs, I ended up using my drug money for my living money, and put all my work paycheck strait into the bank, I used the money to put a nice downpayment on a brand new car..... at all times I had between $350-$600 in cash either in my wallot, or at home, or invested in drugs (mostly pot). I takes a lot of will-power and money management to carry all that money around and not spend too much and fuck up the whole process. It helped me save too, and be conservative on my finances. I *never* lost money selling pot, although I've broke out even a few times (the times I smoked out like an half ounce to an once a day! ;P) I've slowed down that life-style a lot now, BUT I still NEVER EVER EVER pay for my drugs, I still have a few good clients that I hook up. and I still make free weed and about $50 a week. Not bad, and I don't invest hardly any time into it.
Drugs rule
Leo
im not even going to read half this crap. i am simply posting this to make a presence... after all, what is a drug discussion without some comment from the self-proclaimed ansi prophet of LSD himself?
im sorry but that little piece of paper kept saying "EAT ME!"
It lied, though; you didn't get any bigger.
the mdma boy says "EAT ME TOO!#"
CRUSH ME UP AND SNIFF ME
no, not bigger.. but a helluva lot more smart, creative, happy, and BETTER.
kitty tranquilizer is good for you.