- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Durn, beaten again. Lets give up chaps.

Posted by: Red Deathy ( RDP, UK ) on August 12, 1997 at 13:58:31:

In Reply to: Socialism/Marxism/Communism: Even in theory they suck! posted by CAP on August 06, 1997 at 21:31:05:

: There is one objective that the three proposed economic systems, Socialism, Marxism and communism, have in common. They all believe that a society can rise as a whole. That is a bunch of crap! Not everyone can rise together because everyone is different. The desire to exceed another in success is human nature and the process by which one could do so is in capitalism. Capitalism is freedom, everything else is imprisonment.

Sigh, here we go again, some bright spark has found the obvious chink in our armour, and has defeated us rhetorically with one flourish of his suprerior mind and wit.
1:The Countries you cite were not communist- even their governments thought so. They were what is known as state capitalist. That is they were exactly the same as every other industrialised nation, except with a different sort of person running the show.
2:Without raising the obvious disagreements with regards to your comment on human nature, I have to ask- even within your paradigm is it part of human nature to rise on the labour and at the expense of others? I doubt it.
3:Up until very recently most of human society was not geared towards self advancement, and was basically communitariqan in aspect.
4:Being equal is not being the same. A basic point, but one well worth the making. The point about the condition for the growth of one being the condition for the growth of all is that no one person can grown and advance themselves at the cost of others. Not such an ignoble ambition methinks.


: Do you know what Russia is doing right now? They are adopting capitalism to save their butts which they have screwed up. Finally they are starting to show some signs of life thanks to capitalism. Also, 9 countries who WERE members of the Warsaw Pact, (communist nations) have recently joined NATO and will soon be enjoying the joys of life. Not to mention that along with the addition of the 9 nations, 5 more were invitied and are very interested. Communism, Socialism, and Marxism are dying, and that should not be no surprise.

They are not "adopting capitalism" they are overhauling their capitalist economies over to a free market, neo-liberal design of economy- they always were capitalist countries, based on the exchange of commodities, rather than production for need.

Might I be so bold as to suggest reading a serious marxist work, since the manifesto is one of Marx and Engels' weaker pieces. The German Ideology is a good read.


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