: : What would you like to read in the manifesto that it is a jewish plot, that is the product of warmongering, god hating athiests, that is propaganda to bring about dictatorship so that the big bad government can take away your rights?: That is not what I said. I meant that I don't think that it is a good idea to have anyone "sum things up" for you. When they do, they interject their own personal biases into it and you therefore don't get the product as it was in it's raw form.
I wasnt addressing this remark in particular to you, this is just how the manifesto is portrayed
: : This is how the media and capitalist hydra has portrayed the manifesto but that is not the way it is and maybe you have trouble with believeing everything isnt exactly as your told.
: No, I don't. I don't believe what you say after all. I make my own desisions. You can't rightfully think otherwise.
What is wrong with the system Cara, is it just that there is the potential for change? That it contains people like me who are disatisfied? Why have you choosen to disagree with my views you probubly arent aware of what they are about.
: : Cara why are you here? if you simply believed in accepting peoples views you wouldnt be debating at all. You dont realise how important it is to we the enlightened that people are torn from the hegemony under which they live because it'll make freedom easier the realise.
: No, I am here to learn about other people's views. I don't always choose to make them my own. I don't try to force my opinions on you all. I'm just here to offer my ideas and look at yours. Are you really sure that you are "enlightened?" Possitive?
I was wrong in posing this question you are here because I asked you over from jobs ande workers. Even then I had to insult you to take action. Am I enlightened? well I know about economics and the reality of capitalism e.g. that turns people against each other because its a doctrine of self self self.
: : No one has been imposing anything apart from the schools etc. who impose a type of social normality securing the status quo but that's done in such a suttle way you wouldn't have noticed.
: I don't support the status quo. Not on everything. And yes, I have noticed.
What you gonna do about it?
: : It is easy to say this from the position of the dominating ideology (if not the dominant class) it would seem that you are defending freedom with such a remark but your just defending the status quo.
: No, I think that I am defending freedom.
Why explain to me what freedom to you is.
: : This all that I can be sure of is that I know nothing approach is deadly science is proven fact and the manifesto, if you'd read it, is laid out in a similar fashion. Capitalism didn't appear it evolved and it will therefore be replaced, revolution will only be required if those with interests in maintaining the present exploitation use violence to prevent change.
: But you seem absolutly certain that communism is the only true system.
: : :Nothing is absolute.
: : Not even capitalism, individualism or liberty (in the U.S. stagnant sense)?
: That's right. Nothing is absolute. Not even communism.
I never meant to imply this communism as an ideology, that is, the 'Spiritual' tracts of Marxism (no god just man no ideology just man etc.), incidentally I disagree with these, are not absolute but the system of economic determination is absolute because freedom can not be realised without it.
: : But we know we are right sociological studies have proven it so. You think we are purely advocating theory or opinion but we are advocating science.
: And science has been wrong time and time again. "It is impossible to get to the moon." "Man fly? Ha!" "Heliocentric universe? Heretic!!!"
: Get the drift?
This is not science if anything science crushed those remarks. What is your drift?
: : :The only person who can decide what Nat thinks is right is Nat.
: : So in other words the individual is absolute?
: That, in my opinion, is about as close to absolute as you can get. You preach non-conformity but you wish to supress the individual. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that rather hypocritical?
I do preach non-conformity what makes you think that capitalism doesnt supress the individual? I am not as free as Bill Gates. I'm not hypocritical because I'm not talking about collectivism underminding the individuals freedom just helping them realise that freedom.
: Cara
None.
