Day 201 - 15 Dec 95 - Page 03

     
     1        facts, that:  "Up to May 28th 1990 in USA, approximately
     2        seven to 10 per cent of all franchisees were investigated
     3        and cited for child labour violations."
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Which page is that -- 225, you say?
     6
     7   MR. MORRIS:  225.  He actually says -- if you look, it starts on
     8        225, in the middle, "with regard to our franchisees", and
     9        he says "less than one per cent of our total licensees".
    10        But then later on, over the page, Mr. Lantos clarifies what
    11        Mr. Stein is saying on 226.  If you look three-quarters
    12        down the page, Mr. Stein is asked: "How many were actually
    13        investigated", and then he says:  "I am not sure.  I think
    14        it is somewhere between 200 and 300."  Mr. Lantos says: "If
    15        it is between 200 and 300, instead of one per cent, it may
    16        be as high as 10 per cent found with violations."  Then,
    17        over the page on 227, in the middle of the page -----
    18
    19   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Sorry.  I know you want to get through it,
    20        but I still have not found where the 10 per cent is.
    21
    22   MR. MORRIS:  I am sorry.  It is three-quarters down the page on
    23        226.  If you look in the very middle, Mr. Stein
    24        says:  "I know that several hundred have been served" --
    25        that is how many inspected.  On 226, yes?  Then,
    26        three-quarters down the page, it says -----
    27
    28   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Let me read that page.  That is the easiest
    29        thing, I think. (Pause)
    30
    31   MR. MORRIS:  It goes down to the middle of the next page, and
    32        then Mr. Stein agrees.
    33
    34   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I must say, I do not follow Mr. Lantos's
    35        logic at all, because what Mr. Stein said was that there
    36        were 20 violations with over 2,000 restaurants and,
    37        therefore, there was one per cent violations.  Mr. Lantos
    38        seems to say he was being misleading because he did not say
    39        there were 10 per cent of those investigated.  But there
    40        you are; I suppose that is politics for you.
    41
    42   MR. MORRIS:  Well, very likely.  The significance is the
    43        percentage of those investigated.
    44
    45   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Anyway, that is not my concern, is it?
    46
    47   MR. MORRIS:  No.  The point is that the fact is that Mr. Stein
    48        accepts in that testimony that approximately seven to
    49        10 per cent of all franchisees in the USA investigated were
    50        cited for child labour violations. 
    51 
    52   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The percentage is meaningless, then, is it 
    53        not?  You might as well say that 50 per cent of people
    54        charged with rape are convicted.  It is totally
    55        meaningless.  What we need to know is what proportion of
    56        the overall are.  But there you are; that is up to you.
    57
    58   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  The point is that they only investigate 200
    59        to 300.  If they investigated 2,000, then presumably the
    60        figures would be the same.  So, obviously, it will be our