The Wheel of Time FAQ

Corlan Dashiva is, to all appearances, a nasty, Taint-maddenned psychopath of an Asha'man. However, many people think this is simply a cover for a Halima-type infiltration of the Black Tower by the DO's other *'gar. The arguments are all circumstancial, but they've convinced a number of people, so, here they are, along with various rebuttals.

After LoC, I was certain that Osan'gar was an Asha'man. Now I believe that it must be Corlan Dashiva. I base this idea on the following circumstantial evidence, each piece of which alone proves nothing, but the totality of which, I believe, is best explained by Dashiva being Osan'gar. (MG)

1) Dashiva is a middle-aged man from the Black Hills, just to the south of Kandor and to the southeast of Saldaea (ACoS: 2, The Butcher's Yard, 84). Osan'gar now has the body of a middle-aged borderlander. Furthermore, Dashiva seems to Rand to be physically awkward (getting used to a new body?) and unfamiliar with wearing a sword; to Rand, he "did not seem to know one end from the other." One wonders how many Borderlanders growing up on isolated farms have never learned to use a sword, given that the Trollocs have been more of less constantly raiding Borderland farms for the last couple thousand years or so. (MG)

CON: It is not true that ACOS: 2, The Butcher's Yard, p84 says that Dashiva comes from the part of the Black Hills near the Borderlands. It only says that he comes from the Black Hills. Looking at the map, the Black Hills region is bigger than some countries. It starts SE of Saldaea, and extends SE to just SW of Tar Valon. Granted, the Black Hills region is sparsely populated, and given that people live there at all, it is reasonable to suppose that the most populous parts are those near established nations, or trade routes. I would expect people to live in the NW part, near Saldaea and Kandor, the SE part, near Tar Valon, and along the River Luan, which stretches down the SE 2/3 of the hills, and along the Maradon-Tar Valon road, which stretches along the whole length of the hills. This leaves a great deal of leeway for Dashiva's origins. There is no evidence that Dashiva is a Borderlander, only that he MIGHT be. To address the not-knowing-how-to-use-a-sword, if Dashiva is not from the part of the Black Hills near the Borderlands, then it makes total sense that he wouldn't know how to use a sword. Even if he IS from the Borderlands, it isn't so outlandish that he wouldn't use a _sword_. As we know from many references (Our Heroes' Humble Origins, Mat at Tar Valon, etc.), swords are not farmers' weapons. For one thing, they are expensive, and aren't useful for anything else. A farmer who fights is more likely to use a quarterstaff, a bow, or, at most, some sort of pike or spear. (PTK)

2) Osan'gar has an "ordinary" face while Dashiva has a "plain" face (ACoS: 36 Blades, 571). (MG)

CON: Moghedian is plain-looking, too. Does that make her Dashiva? A good portion of Randland is ordinary-looking. They can't all be Osan'gar. Furthermore, appearance doesn't much matter, given the ability of the Forsaken to change their appearance at will, as Oilcan points out. (PTK, CO)

3) When Rand awakens after being stabbed by Fain, Dashiva is holding almost as much saidin as Rand himself could have (ACoS: 41, A Crown of Swords, 639). In EoTW, Aginor is described as supposedly being not much less powerful than Lews Therin or Ishamael. (Assuming Osan'gar = Aginor) (MG)

CON: Dashiva could just be a strong channeller. It HAS been known to happen. Other possible explanations are: 1) Dashiva is the one who took Rand's fat-man angreal which he couldn't find after his rescue. Thus, Dashiva + angreal = Rand, but Dashiva by himself is weaker than Rand. 2) Rand was in a weakened state then, and was not able to draw as much _saidin_ as he normally could. When RJ says "Dashiva held almost as much as Rand could have," he means he held as much as Rand, at the moment, could have. Tired channellers cannot hold as much of the OP, so that would make the amount Dashiva held seem less spectacular. (Chris Dewey, Brian Ritchie)

4) Dashiva's feelings toward Rand, smelled by Perrin after Rand rejects Dashiva's idea of gating into the palace at Cairhien: '"As my Lord Dragon commands." The fellow inclined his head, but he sounded sour, and he smelled... Perrin rubbed his nose. The smell... skittered, dodging wildly through fear and hate and anger and a dozen more emotions almost too quickly to make out. He no longer doubted the man was mad, however good a face the fellow put on.' (ACoS: 4, Into Cairhien, 108). Perrin attributes it to straightforward saidin madness, but that particular sequence of emotions looks a -lot- like the sequence that the women felt through Moggy's a'dam whenever they made her do something she considered demeaning or below her rightful station. Plus, if Dashiva really is Osan'gar, then "however good a face the fellow put on" becomes a joke on the reader....(MG)

CON: Dashiva's behaviour is also easily explained by Perrin's analysis, i.e. that Dashiva is crazy. The description of quickly-changing emotions is very similar to the description of how Perrin perceives _Rand's_ quickly-changing emotions when LTT is acting up. (PK)

5) Speech patterns: Dashiva talking to Rand about the danger of riding up to the palace in Cairhien: "All it needs is one man with a...a bow or a knife, and you don't see him in time." Did he need to think a moment for the word "bow?" Was he thinking "shocklance" or some other AoL weapon? When asked by Rand if he believes Rand's enemies have been asleep while he was away, Dashiva says, "I...grew up on a farm" ... "I don't know much about having enemies." Someone having to pause a sec to remember his cover story? (MG)

CON: This, and Dashiva's other incidents of mindwandering, are easily explained by Dashiva being "a daydreamer who may already be going somewhat mad." (CO)

6) Dashiva is described, by Taim no less, as a daydreamer who may already be going somewhat mad. Perrin notices Dashiva's odd behavior - he sees Dashiva seeming to talk to himself (ACoS: 3, Hill of the Golden Dawn, 93). However, Dashiva has only been with the Black Tower for, at most, the length of time (a couple of months, perhaps) since the beginning of LoC when the Farm was established. He does not appear to have been there when Rand brings Taim to the farm in LoC. Since Dashiva is middle aged, he is probably not a wilder who has lasted 10+ years on his own...or his survival would be at least as remarkable as Taim's. Given that, it seems unlikely to me, from what we have seen, that he would start going mad so soon after starting to channel. Whence his apparent madness then? We know from Graendal's quote in her LoC meeting at Sammael's place that at least some of the Forsaken considered Aginor to be mad. Our look into Osan'gar's head in the LoC prologue shows him stifling a giggle that belies his own thought that, despite it all, he was not mad. (MG)

CON: The Taint affects people at different rates. The more you channel, the more Taint you absorb. If Dashiva is somebody who is naturally very susceptible to the taint, and he's been channelling a great deal, then it is not so unlikely that he could be going loony. As a comparison, consider Thom's nephew Owyn. He started succumbing to the madness after three years of channelling as little as possible. The Asha'man channel a LOT--part of Taim's training is to encourage them to use the OP to do EVERYTHING. So, if Dashiva is only slightly more Taint-prone than Owyn was, then the intense channelling he's been doing could indeed have caused him to get enough Taint to start going mad. (PTK)

7) -Dashiva- suggested to Flinn that he learn Healing (ACoS: 36, Blades, 572). Dashiva -knows- that he himself doesn't have the Talent for Healing, yet it seems that Dashiva was able to recognize that Talent latent in Flinn well enough to suggest that Flinn in particular try it.(MG)

CON: 1) There is no reason to suppose that it happenned this way. The way it was described, Flinn and Dashiva _happenned_ to be talking, and the subject came up. then, Dashiva suggested that Flinn experiment with Healing. There is nothing in the passage that suggests that Dashiva sought Flinn out specifically to discuss Healing. 2) This actually provides more of an argument AGAINST Dashiva being a Forsaken than for. Thus far, none of the Forsaken have been wont to share knowledge with anybody, unless it could benefit them. Witness: While Alviarin has been in contact with many Forsaken, none of them offerred to teach her anything before Mesaana did, and Mesaana only offerred until after Alviarin swore to be her particular flunky. Furthermore, Mesaana forbade Alviarin to share the knowledge she gained (ACOS: Prologue, Lightnings, 43). Graendal straight out refused to teach any of the Shaido WOs (ACOS: 20, Patterns Within Patterns, 355). Moggy and Asm only taught Our Heroes under extreme duress. Assuming Taim = Dem, he provides more evidence; he only wants the Asha'man to learn what he dictates; he doesn't want them going outside his curriculum. It is thus not reasonable to suppose that a Forsaken would teach some random guy how to Heal, or even lead him in teaching himself, out of the goodness of his heart. What would Osan'gar gain by teaching Flinn? Furthermore, if we assume Osan'gar = Aginor, why would he pretend to be so bad at Healing? Given the "dead" cover, along with the "new body" disguise, he'd hardly have to pretend to be totally incompetant at it to avoid suspicion. Why not just pretend to be as good as, say, Flinn is? It just doesn't make sense. (PTK)

8) Dashiva quote (ACOS: 36, Blades, 573):
"Flinn knows what he is about. Already he can do things you Aes Sedai never dreamed of." (emphasis in original) Standard Forsaken derogatory emphasis on "Aes Sedai;" When Sammael mentions Aes Sedai to Carridin in (ACOS: 15, Insects, 289) the emphasis is presented identically. I'm surprised Dashiva didn't call them "untrained children"....(MG)

CON: That could be arrogant contempt for Aes Sedai in general, which seems to be a common trait among the whole Black Tower crowd. Not to mention, consider who the Asha'man have been learning from. Taim certainly has no love for AS, he undoubtedly instilled his dislike in his students. (CO)

9) Dashiva again seems to talk to himself while Flinn Heals Rand in (ACOS: 36, Blades, 573). '"Get on with it, Flinn," Dashiva muttered. "If he dies...." Nose wrinkled as though at a bad smell, he seemed unable to look away from Rand. His lips moved as he talked to himself, and once he made a sound, half sob, half bitter laugh, without his face changing one line.' Sounds like someone who doesn't like Rand and wouldn't mind seeing him die, but is charged by someone fear-inspiring with making sure Rand doesn't die too soon. (MG)

CON: Or someone who is about three minutes from stripping naked and howling at the moon, confronted with the thought of the one man powerful enough to protect him and the other channelling men from dying a wretched death at Aes Sedai hands, not to mention keeping the Dark One from taking over the world. (CO)

10) Dashiva recognises Taim's title "M'hael" as meaning 'leader' in the Old Tongue. He explains it by saying he read a lot of books on his farm. This seems a little fishy; knowledge of the Old Tongue is NOT very common. This could be a case of "It means leader, you ignorant moron. Uh-oh, there I go again. Quick, explain why you know the Old Tongue." (Dylan F. Alexander)

CON: Or, he _could_ have read it in a book. Or, maybe Taim gave some speech along the lines of "Fine, I can't call myself the Dragon anymore, but I'm going to get the respect I deserve. You will call ME the Leader, not that bloody stupid git Lews, um, al'Thor." One could understand why Dashiva wouldn't want to repeat this in front of a man prone to insane rages. After all, Dashiva witnessed Rand attacking his childhood friend, Perrin, for arguing against him. Who knows what he'd do to a flunky who brings news that one of his generals is subverting the troops? (PTK)

11) Aesthetic meta-reason: Since Halima/Aran'gar, the right-handed dagger, is with the female Aes Sedai (Salidar faction), there's a certain attractive symmetry to Osan'gar, the left-handed dagger, being with the male Asha'man. (MG)

CON: It would be just as symmetrical for Osan'gar to be with the Tower Faction. Or with a part of Rand's group that is not the Asha'man. Or, the "symmetry" may not exist at all. (PTK)

1)Rand picked Dashiva randomly. If Dashivan'gar's goal was to get close to Rand, he didn't get himself in a very good position to get chosen for the task. Even if it was Rand's ta'veren-ness that led him to choose the Forsaken in the crowd, Dashivan'gar couldn't have depended on it. Assuming Rand's ta'veren-ness was in operation there, it could just be that Rand chose the one upper-eschelon Ash'aman in the area who wasn't a Taim-flunky.

REBUTTAL: Perhaps Osan'gar wasn't sent to get close to Rand. He may have been sent to spy on the Black Tower, and being chosen for Rand's personal honour guard was simply a bonus.

2) Assuming Taim = Demandred, wouldn't it be overkill for there to be TWO Forsaken in the Black Tower?

REBUTTAL: That argument backwards could show that, if Osan'gar = Dashiva, then Taim can't be Demandred. However, even given Taim = Dem, this would not be the first time that the Dark One played the Forsaken off against each other/had them spy on one another. If Taim=Dem and Osan'gar=Dashiva, then I would highly doubt that Taim would have been told about it. Osan'gar, for his part, will do what he's told, up to and including "grovelling before a worm," to avoid displeasing the Dark One. I would not at all be surprised to find out that Osan'gar is there to keep Taim/Dem from doing something nasty to Rand, contrary to the DO's orders, at an inappropriate time. (MG)

3) I find it hard to believe that any Forsaken, no matter how loopy the others think he might be, would submit to disguising himself as a half-mad daydreamer. Aginor certainly didn't strike me as being a humble sort when he popped up in EotW, and the other resurrected Forsaken we know of (Halima/ Asan'gar) has found a far more agreeable position for him/herself...(CO)

This FAQ compiled by Pam Korda (kor2@midway.uchicago.edu) and converted to HTML by Matthew Hunter (mhunter+@andrew.cmu.edu).

Is Dashiva Osan'gar?

Contributed by: Michael Gonzalez (MG), Chad Orzel (CO), Pam Korda (PK), others