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[Written by P.Korda. Contributors: Bill Garrett, William Smit, John Schwegler, John Novak, OilCan, Fred Van Keuls, and lots of other folks.]
So, is the Mazrim Taim who appears in LoC the real Mazrim Taim, the Saldaean False Dragon, or is he the Forsaken Demandred in disguise?
Here, MT=the character who appears in LoC, general of the Asha'man. Taim=the False Dragon we heard about first in TGH, captured after Falme. Demandred=the Forsaken.
Then again, MT may really be the original Mazrim Taim. The reason we think of Demandred when we see him is not because he is Demandred, but because he is similar to Demandred in personality--he wanted to be the Dragon, he doesn't like being second-best, etc. Taim could have the ultimate plan of supporting Rand as much as he can, helping him to win the Last Battle. Since Rand is expected to die in the Last Battle, Taim plans to bide his time and take control in the aftermath. After that, well, as MT says, the winners write the histories.
Finally, there is the possibility that there never was a "real" Taim; only Demandred. The first mention of Taim is at the beginning of TGH [TGH: 5, The Shadow in Shienar, 55], and "trouble in Saldaea" is mentioned in TEOTW. At that point, at least some of the other Forsaken are loose, so it is possible that Demandred was, too. We don't know enough about the timing of events to decide for sure.
1) MT knows too much: knowing how to test for channelling ability, how quickly he "learns" gateways, how well he teaches the Asha'man, etc. It's a little hard to believe that he figured all this out on his very own. Look at how much trouble Rand had learning before he got Asm as a proper teacher.
Counter-argument: He's supposedly been channelling for 15 years. He had to have learned something in that time. Plus, MT mentions to Bashere that he used Compulsion on two people [LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 76]. Since the real Taim did that, the real Taim DID know stuff. (Note that this does not apply if Demandred was always MT.) As for Gateways, maybe Taim is just a fast learner, like Rand, or Nynaeve. In fact, one's ease of learning seems to be a direct function of how strong one is in the Power. (examples: Rand, Ny, El, Eg are all fast learners, and even SS and Moiraine, who are stronger than your average bear, spent a relatively short time as Novices (3 years?).) This probably has to do with the fact that, the stronger you are, the easier it is for you to see the flows required for a particular action, and thus can more readily duplicate it. (Note that that doesn't explain Taim's learning curve; he wouldn't have had anybody to observe and learn FROM.)
2) The Seal. The story about finding it in a Saldaean farmer's house is pretty fishy. Could it be that Demandred (posing as Taim) gave it to Rand in order to try to gain his trust?
Counter-argument: If MT is Demandred, why would he, and the DO, give a seal to Rand? If the minions of the Shadow had a seal, wouldn't they break it? Maybe the DO could predict that Rand/LTT would try to break the seal, but Demandred couldn't have. MT was certainly shocked when it looked like Rand was going to smash it [LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 80-1]. As mentioned, it could be that Demandred would want to give it to Rand to get him to trust him, but that failed utterly. MT's seal story is somewhat backed by Bashere's story to Perrin about a farmer in Saldaea who claimed to be the descendant of the kings of an ancient Kingdom. If MT Farmer == Bashere Farmer it would be plausible that the seal was the last item of inheritance. And who better for the farmer to give it to than the Dragon Reborn (MT's claim before Rand declared himself)?
Rebuttal: It could be that Taim was shocked when Rand looked like he was going to break the Seal because he was worried that Rand was already totally gone. It's clear that the DO has plans for Rand, and that the DO told Demandred something about a plan for Rand (not necessarily the REAL plan) in the "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" speech, and that Demandred liked it. If Rand was too loony to perform his role, Demandred would be worried. As for why he gave the Seal to Rand in the first place, why not? The seals have been steadily weakening, and will break on their own in time. Why not give the seal to Rand in an attempt to gain his trust?
3) MT claims to not be affected by the Taint, after (Rand estimates) 15 years of channelling [LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 76]. This seems pretty unlikely. Consider Owyn, who was going mad after only 3 years of hardly ever channelling at all. Many of the Asha'man have a few screws loose after only a few months of intensive channeling. The only Taint protection we know of is linking to the DO. Plus, the Red Ajah seems pretty adept at tracking down male channellers. In 15 years, one would have thought that the AS would have heard of him long before they did.
Counter-argument: Unless Taim was a raving lunatic when he was leading his armies as a False Dragon, he must have still been somewhat sane, even after 15 years. (Again, note that if MT was always Dem, this does not apply.) Same argument applies for him not getting caught by the Reds. Plus, Logain, who is not a Forsaken, has been channelling for about six years (minus about a year or so of being gentled), and isn't going mad. It seems likely that the ease with which one succumbs to the Taint varies widely with the person. Owyn went under in 3 years, MT mentions some other guys who lasted for 2 years [LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 79], and Logain has lasted for 6 [LOC: 51, The Taking, 647].
3.5) More on Taim's age: Rand estimates Taim's age as 35, or a few years older [LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 76]. However, Rand doesn't know about the "slowing" effect of using the OP. According to RJ, a man with the spark doesn't slow until 25, usually closer to thirty. He says one can go past thirty, but that probably depends on how early they start channelling and how much they channel [Post-TPOD Signing, New York, 20 October, 1998, report by Ryan R.]. Thus, the only way Taim could be the age he looks is if he started channelling at an unusually late age, and didn't channel much for the first few years. Since, if he's legit, he'd have to be a wilder, he must have started channelling young, at around Rand's age. The depth of his knowledge of channelling, and his career as a False Dragon demonstrate that he must have channelled a great deal prior to his arrival in Caemlyn. Therefore, Taim must be even older than 35. Let's postulate that men slow at a rate similar to women. We know that Garenia ran away from the Tower 70 years ago, and presumably she slowed before then, or soon afterwards (in her early 20s, as is usual for women). Garenia looks like she is Nynaeve's age, around 26. That corresponds to about five years of physical aging in 70 years. Now, if Taim started slowing at 30, then his actual age should be around 100 or so. Thus, the problem of Taim's age is even more extreme than it first appears.
Counter-argument: The same type of arguments apply as discussed above. Maybe Taim is miraculously immune to the Taint. Also, maybe Rand overestimated Taim's age; maybe he's only thirty or so, in which case he needn't have begun slowing noticeably yet.
4) MT's reaction to Rand's badges and awards: he's not pleased to be seen as subservient to Rand [LoC: 42, The Black Tower, 543], just like Demandred [LoC: Prologue, The First Message, 56-7].
Counter-argument: It is entirely possible that Taim is just plain arrogant. Nothing says the Forsaken have a monopoly on excessive pride.
5) LTT often raves about Demandred, and killing him, every time MT is around. Is there a method in his madness? LTT raves, "Sammael, oh, yes, but Demandred first. First of all I rid myself of him, then Sammael." [LoC: 51, The Taking, 635] LTT and Rand know where Sammael is. But why does LTT insist on killing Demandred if he doesn't know where he is? Therefore, they do know where Demandred is; i.e., he's MT. [Dash W.]
Counter-argument: Again, it could just be that Taim is similar to Demandred in many ways, and LTT thinks he will betray him like Demandred did in the AoL. Anyway, LTT is loony and wants to kill all male channellers [ACOS: 7, Pitfalls and Tripwires, 139]. Furthermore, one shouldn't take anything LTT says too seriously. He's a total loon. He wants to die forever and end his suffering [LoC: 18, A Taste of Solitude, 299], but he doesn't want to die [LoC: 46, Beyond the Gate, 560]. He says "trust no one" and "the man who doesn't trust is dead" or words to that effect. LTT could be confusing Taim and Demandred.
6) The epilogue: "Have I not done well, Great Lord?" The DO's orders were to "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule," which seems to refer to "sowing chaos" in general, and to promoting divisiveness among the enemies of the Shadow. Demandred and Mesaana (and Semirhage) were working together on a plot in LOC to "let the Lord of Chaos rule." One of the main plot threads in LOC was the interactions of Rand with the SAS and TAS embassies. Rand ended up getting kidnapped by the TAS, and was rescued with the assistance of the Asha'man. The events of the battle to free Rand led to a great deal of mistrust and enmity among the SAS embassy, the TAS, the Aiel who follow Rand, the Shaido, and the Asha'man. The current state of affairs among Rand's allies (his Aiel, the Asha'man) and potential allies (the TAS and SAS) can only be good for the Shadow. We know that Mesaana was central to setting up this situation, from her place in the WT. Assuming Demandred had a hand in it as well (as is implied by his visit to SG at the end of the book), the most logical place for Demandred to be, among those factions, is the AM.
Counter-argument: From Sammael's speech with Graendal [LoC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 135], we know that Demandred may be involved in the Seanchan invasion in Tarabon. Maybe this has something to do with it. Furthermore, if Demandred is MT and is also involved with the Seanchan, wouldn't it be necessary for him to "disappear" from the farm in order to manage his other project? Nobody's mentioned anything about MT vanishing. Finally, if the final mess in LOC was set up by Dem, Sem, and Mesaana, what was Semirhage's role?
7) MT kills the Gray Man. If he hadn't, Rand might have gotten information out of it. Alternatively, it could've been a set-up: Taimandred ordered the Gray Man, and killed him to "prove" his loyalty to Rand.
Counter-argument: It's doubtful Rand could get much information from a Gray Man. The Gray Men have no souls--they're basically walking killing machines. They probably have some sort of self-destruct mechanism, too. Jared Samet remarks: "If I were designing a perfect assassin, I'd set him up so that he could never point the finger at me. Remember, the Gray Man who comes after Nynaeve in the Tower has a knife in him the moment they find him. Besides, the Gray Man could only tell Rand anything damaging to MT if Demandred had sent him (possible I suppose, but why can't Demandred do it himself if thats what the DO wants?) A Gray Man with a story implicating Sammael or some other Forsaken (easy enough for a channeller to set up) could help MT more than a dead one." As for how conveniently MT showed up, recall that strange and oddly convenient things happen around Rand all the time.
8) MT's remark on "These so-called Aiel". If he hadn't been around in the AoL, why are they "so-called"? [LoC: 11, Lessons and Teachers, 215] The only other person to use this (exact same) phrase is Moridin (who used to be Ishamael) in [ACOS: 20, Patterns Within Patterns, 356]. Only somebody from the AOL would have cause to call the modern Aiel "so-called."
Counter-argument: This is the hardest piece of evidence to explain away. People have suggested rationalizations, though. For example, if Taim knew the old tongue, he might be simply saying that he doubts the Aiel are truly "dedicated" to Rand. Another possible explanation is that, if Taim is about 35, which seems reasonable, then he was alive for the Aiel War, although possibly too young to go east to fight. He probably heard tales about Aiel--10 feet tall, breathing fire, etc. Here he sees some in Caemlyn peacefully patrolling the streets. Not what an average wetlander would expect of Savages From the Waste.
Rebuttal: As to the first suggestion, it hardly seems in character to for Taim to be making puns in the Old Tongue. As for the second, even if the Aiel Taim meets aren't the monsters he's heard about, they are undeniably Aiel. Nobody else in Randland regards them as "so-called."
8.5) Another Aiel reference. There is second suspicious Taim quote about the Aiel. During the fight at Dumai's Wells, Taim has the Asha'man raise a defensive barrier of Air around Rand's position. Many of the people Perrin led from Caemlyn (Aiel fighters and WOs, Mayeners, Cairhienin, and Two Rivers folk) are trapped outside, among the Shaido. Rand asks Taim to lower the barrier, presumably so that the fighters could be informed of Rand's safety, and an orderly retreat could begin. [LOC: 55, Dumai's Wells, 692-693] Taim argues against this, saying, "There are casualties in battle. I lost several soldiers today, nine men who will be harder to replace than any number of renegade Aiel." He is clearly talking about Rand¹s Aiel, not the Shaido. So why are they "renegade"? The only convincing explanation that I see is that they are renegades against the Way of the Leaf, the code of the Da¹shain Aiel. [Fred Van Keuls]
This makes not one, but two instances in which Taim expresses doubts about the legitimacy of the modern Aiel. In this case, in the middle of a heated battle, there is no reason for Taim to doubt the "dedication" of the Aiel to Rand's cause.
Counter-argument: Taim may be referring to the vast numbers of Shaido. As far as each side's battle strength is concerned, it will be easier for the Shaido to replace a few dozen or hundred spears than it will for Taim to recruit and train nine men. [Matthew Heslin]
Rebuttal: The context of the above quote is that Taim is arguing against raising the 'Dome of Air' to save Rand's Aiel, Mayeners and True Rivers folk from the Shaido. He is saying that Rand's Aiel (outside the Dome) are expendable compared to the Asha'man (inside the Dome). Given the discussion before the quote, it seems highly unlikely to me that Taim could be referring to the Shaido as the 'renegade Aiel'. I suppose one could argue that Taim is confused about what is going on. However, Taim has never given me that impression. [Fred Van Keuls]
9) Strength: MT is very strong in the Power. Forsaken-class, even (almost as strong as Rand himself). [LoC: 3, A Woman's Eyes, 92]
Counter-argument: The real Taim was thought to be very strong. [TSR: 5, Questioners, 85] Just because he's strong doesn't mean he's evil. (And just because he's evil, doesn't mean he's Forsaken.) Nynaeve is Forsaken-class, but she's on the Good Guys' side.
10) Smile: In the prologue, it is said that Demandred never smiles [LoC: Prologue, The First Message, 15], [LoC: Prologue, The First Message, 58]. MT doesn't either-- at the end of LoC, before "Kneel, or you will be knelt", Rand says something like "His expression was as close to a smile as he had ever seen it." [LoC: 55, Dumai's Wells, 695]
Counter-argument: Once again, it could just be that Taim and Demandred have similar personalities.
11) Min's viewing: of an invisible man holding a knife to Rand's throat. This could indicate that Demandred is the "serpent in the bosom," masquerading as Taim.
Counter-argument: The vision could be the Gray Man, as Rand thinks. Or, it could be MT, who is not to be trusted, even if he isn't Demandred.
Rebuttal: Since when has Rand ever interpreted Min's visions correctly?
12) Location, Location, Location: Demandred takes a gateway directly out of TAR while in the Royal palace in Caemlyn. Unless Demandred knows some sort of combination traveling/leaving TAR gateway, then he must be somebody, or pretending to be somebody who comes to Caemlyn regularly, and somebody who can channel his way into the palace without inviting immediate destruction upon himself. We know that MT has been visiting Rand in Caemlyn because Rand's thoughts comment on how MT has taught him to block out heat, and a few chapters later Rand tells MT that his visits to the city would have to stop because Alanna and Verin have shown up.
Counter-argument: Maybe he went out of TAR to someplace that was not Caemlyn. Also, maybe Demandred is gutsy enough to enter into Rand's turf.
Rebuttal: We've never seen anybody enter/leave TAR in the flesh via any means except gating to the spot in the real world corresponding to the spot one is in in TAR. As for Dem blatantly entering into Rand's turf, it's not likely that he'd do that unless he had a cover story-- too dangerous, especially with Rand becoming more and more paranoid.
13) MT's behavior: Bill Garrett says: Something that should maybe be added as a separate point is MT's whole challenge/submit behavior. He'll argue with Rand about something, telling him it has to be done another way, then suddenly he'll agree and say "As my Lord Dragon commands." I think it's Demandred trying to do things his way, but suddenly remembering the Dark One's orders to do what Rand says (or at least to not go directly against him). And MT sometimes disobeys Rand and frequently does things Rand doesn't expect, as with the Asha'man.
Counter-argument: How is this different from the way the Tairen lords behaved? Or the Andoran nobility? Or Davram Bashere? Hell, even the Aiel tend to do this. Everybody tries to convince Rand to do things their way, but when you get right down to it, he's going to do as he damn well pleases, and all you can say is "As my Lord Dragon commands."
14) Another slip of the tongue: When Rand shows MT how to make a gateway, he calls it a "gateway." A little further in the same chapter, MT says, "You can Travel, but you don't know how to test for the talent." How does MT know that a Gateway = Traveling? AFAIK, Rand didn't mention anything about "traveling," only "gateways."
Counter-argument: Maybe MT heard the term described during his 15 years as channeller, and added 2 and 2 to make 4.
Rebuttal: Once more, this raises the question of how Taim got to know so much about channelling, with (supposedly) nobody to teach him.
15) Sammael and Graendal in conversation: In [ACOS: 20, Patterns Within Patterns, 355], Sammael and Graendal are discussing their comrades. Sammael says, "I didn't arrange [Rand's] kidnapping....Mesaana had a hand in it, though. Maybe Demandred and Semirhage as well, despite how it ended...." Note the despite-- there is a strong implication here that Sem and Dem somehow had a hand in the conclusion of the Rand-kidnapping episode, i.e. in his rescue. Who was instrumental in the rescue? Taim and the Asha'man, Perrin and the Two Riversians, the Wolves, the Mayeners, and the Aiel. We all know that the most likely place for Demandred is with the Asha'man, as their leader, in fact. Note that this interpretation implies that Sam knows where Dem and Sem are situated. We do not know that he knows this, in fact, as of [LOC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 138], Graendal doesn't know where they are. Of course, Sam could have known, without telling Graendal, or they could always have discovered it in the intervening time.
Counter-argument: A totally different spin can be put on the passage. As Mark Loy explains, "To paraphrase...'I didn't arrange Rand's kidnapping... Mesaana had a hand in arranging Rand's kidnapping... Maybe Dem and Sem had a hand in arranging Rand's kidnapping as well, despite how the kidnapping ended. This interpretation means that they might have had a hand in arranging the kidnapping...in the planning..." despite the fact that it ended all messed up.
16) Yet another slip of the tongue: MT has taken to calling himself "The M'Hael," which means "leader" in the Old Tongue, and giving OT designations to his lieutenants. MT knows an awful lot about the Old Tongue for a modern-day Randlander.
Counter-argument: Well, maybe he does know the Old Tongue. Maybe he was a scholar or something before he became a False Dragon. Of course, that is pure speculation.
17) Black Tower: MT has pretty much built the Black Tower on his own. Rand has made little effort to be involved in it, and has left the recruiting, training, and testing of Asha'man to MT. MT, in turn, has done a fine job-- in just a few months (between LOC and POD) he's created an unconventional military force which can take on anybody in Randland, including Aes Sedai and Seanchan. Just a handful of Asha'man have proven to be the decisive factor in many battles, some of them against opponents with channelling capability. So, we must ask ourselves, if MT is so efficient at turning out combat channellers, why didn't he do it when HE was claiming to be the Dragon Reborn? He claims to have tried training other men to channel [LOC: 2, A New Arrival, 79], so the thought must have occurred to him. Granted, since he lacked Rand's ta'veren-power to attract recruits, he would have had a much smaller force than the 400 or so at the BT. However, given that two or three percent of people can learn to channel [Guide: 2, The One Power and the True Source, 18], and that Taim's army of followers was of a "normal" Randland size (on the order of a couple thousand), he should have been able to get at least 10-20 men who could have been useful. Even ten male channellers is nothing to sneeze at, and yet Taim the False Dragon had no channelling followers. This can be explained easily if one supposes that Taim did not have the knowledge to identify and train channellers. MT is not Taim, but Demandred, who certainly has all that knowledge. He told Rand the story about identifying male channellers in an attempt to allay Rand's suspicions about MT knowing how to do the test.
Counter-argument: There are other possible reasons Taim didn't train any other channellers. Perhaps he didn't have time. Perhaps he was worried that they'd turn against him. Perhaps when he saw his first experiments in training go mad in two years or so [LOC: 2, A New Arrival, 79], he gave the idea up.
Rebuttal: As for time, he supposedly spent 15 years or so as a channeller before declaring himself the Dragon. He didn't seem to be in any big hurry. Taim isn't the sort of guy to worry about most of his subordinate channellers betraying him-- he's shown himself to be a master at inspiring admiration and loyalty in his troops; he's got a regular cult of personality among the Asha'man. As for the ones he didn't feel he could trust, he's not the sort of guy to be shy about killing them outright. As for the madness, he is known to be a totally ruthless fellow. He'd have no problem using his followers for the year or two they had of sanity and then killing them. Of course, this argument doesn't apply if Taim has always been Dem.
What was MT up to in TPOD? Through his lieutenants Torval, Gedwyn, Kisman, and Rochaid (or some subset thereof), he set up the Illianer rebels to attempt to assassinate Rand, supposedly at the instigation of Aes Sedai. Through Torval, he tried to make Rand suspicious of Egwene's army which was, at the time, marching towards Caemlyn and the BT. Possibly, Gedwyn tried to subvert or cause problems with High Lord Weiramon. At the end, Taim possibly set up his lieutenants as "deserters" who tried to kill Rand, thus producing a coterie of male channellers who were clearly loyal to MT, and whose actions he could disavow. He was angry when he learned that Dashiva, NOT one of his favorites, had gotten in on the attack.
None of this points one way or the other. Both Demandred and a real Taim would be interested in exacerbating the tensions between Rand and the Aes Sedai. Taim would do so because he'd fear that if Rand allied with AS, the BT could be threatened or at least become less important. Not to mention, since Taim was captured by AS, he'd have no love for them. Demandred would also want to increase Rand's dependence on the BT (and thus on Taimandred) for all his channelling needs. He'd want to widen the chasm between Rand and the AS, so that Rand would have less support, and to sow general chaos.
Similarly, both the real Taim and Taimandred would benefit from having a force of channellers who worked independently of the BT, and whose loyalty he could count upon, and whose actions he wouldn't have to justify to Rand. Dashiva was obviously not in on the Plan, and thus received MT's ire (whoever he really is) when he joined in. He represents an element of which MT doesn't have control.
In conclusion, nothing in POD lent strength to either side of the Taimandred question.
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